[email protected]

In a message dated 4/16/2002 1:56:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
truealaskans@... writes:
> He thinks that if they are not
> intentionally being taught specific things, that they are not getting an
> education. I doubt that I could get my husband to read any books. I have
> tried before; he will start them but he doesn't usually get far. He doesn't
> like to read. He still has yet to make it all the way through an algebra
> course. He says that the reason he wants me to do "school" schooling with
> them is because he doesn't want them to wind up like him.
>
>
I'm sorry, but it looks like he's making your case FOR you!

He WAS taught specific things in SCHOOL, but he doesn't think he's gotten an
"education" (he doesn't want his kids to wind up like him---what? UNeducated
from all that schooling?). He should be avoiding school and anything
resembling school like the plague!

He doesn't like to read---SCHOOL did that, not NO school.

Algebra? HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of kids have made it through more than one
algebra course. What has it done for us---ummm...them? When you HAVE to learn
it for the test, it's NOT fun. When you learn thoroughly it because it's FUN,
why do you need a test?

You think unschooling's best. You've done your research. He's not willing to
study up on Unschooling because why?---he doesn't like to LEARN anything new?
He just accepts what the masses/"experts" tell him? Sounds like the "school
way" seriously damaged his ability to THINK independently.

Sounds as if you have your work cut out for you. Good luck!

Kelly




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Suzanna and Darrell

> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:10:13 -0700
> From: "Dawn Falbe" <dawn@...>
> Subject: RELUCTANT HUSBAND
>
> Hi All: I have to come from a different perspective about this subject..
A
> position of power... I'm always pretty uncomfortable when I hear grown
women
> talking about how they have to "show" "prove" "justify" or convince their
> husbands of anything. My understanding of a healthy marital relationship
is
> that my husband and I are equal,

Just because my husband and I don't agree on something doesn't mean that
there is an unbalance of power. Or that he is trying to be "my father".
There are times when we disagree and he is eventually able to persuade me
that his position is correct. There are other times when we disagree and I
am able to convince him that my position is right. And there are other times
when we disagree that we have a difficult time ever agreeing and we need to
come to a compromise. Does this mean that there is an unbalance of power? I
think not!

> If my husband wanted me to prove anything to him, firstly I would have to
> laugh at him, if he still kept a serious face then he could stay home with
> the kids and I'll go out and work and then he can decide what's going to
> happen....

To laugh at someone that disagrees with you when they ask you to support
your position seems mighty disrespectful and even demeaning to me. I would
be highly offended and very hurt if my husband treated me that way!
>
> I am married to a man that loves unschooling and cannot imagine doing
> anything different.

How wonderful for you. But perhaps that is because he isn't "doing
anything". It sounds to me like you call all the shots and he is content to
just go along for the ride.

> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:28:33 EDT
> From: SandraDodd@...
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 314
>
>
> In a message dated 4/16/02 11:56:19 AM, truealaskans@...
writes:
>
> << He thinks that if they are not
> intentionally being taught specific things, that they are not getting an
> education. >>
>
> He's right.
>
> This is not just a matter of language, but of perception and CONception.
>
> "Education" is what one person does to another. It's a trasitive
verb--the
> subject educates the object.
>
> If you change the language you use to discuss your children's learning at
> home, it will gradually change the way you both see what you are doing.
>
> As long as you, too, use the word "education" your husband will be right.
>
> So instead of trying to show him how they can get an education without
being
> taught (which they technically cannot),


The dictionary definition of education is: "1. the development of knowledge,
skill, ability, or character by teaching, training, STUDY, or EXPERIENCE",
"2. the knowledge, skill, ability, or character gained through teaching,
training, STUDY, or EXPERINECE." (caps were used for emphasis, not to imply
shouting :-)


>discuss how unschooled teens have
> learned all the elements that 'educated' children learn, plus many more,
in
> natural, non-threatening ways that never seem like "school work" because
they
> aren't.

In order to do that, I would need examples of those unschooled teens. We
don't know any. If I could have those examples, especially if we knew some,
that would probably be all I needed to get dh to feel comfortable with
unschooling.
>
> The closest you'll get to a crystal ball is his meeting other unschooling
> families, and maybe talking to some really confident dads. The best
> opportunity for that might be a conference where unschoolers are.

We are moving to Columbus, MS next month. Does anyone know of any
unschooling conferences in that area? Or even some unschooling families with
some "really confident dads" in that area?

> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:41:40 -0700
> From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 314
>
>
> >My
> >husband's pestering about the neccessity of "school work" on "school
days"
> >has gotten to the point that my youngest son, age 11, will absolutely
refuse
> >to do anything remotely "educational" if it is not a school day for the
> >public school kids. Whereas he didn't used to care what day it was, if he
> >was curious about something he would ask me to help him look it up, find
> >more info at the library, or do a project with him. But now when he asks
me
> >something on a non-"school" day, and I say something like, "lets go look
it
> >up", he will say, "no way! Today isn't a school day!"
>
> Have you pointed this out to your husband and asked if that was his
> intent? <g>
> Tia


No, I haven't pointed this out to him, but I will. :-)

> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:06:09 EDT
> From: SandraDodd@...
> Subject: husbands and school days
>
> "School days" is too weird a concept.
>
> Tell him you're going to have 365 learning days and no school days.

I like that way of putting it. I will try that with my dh.

> If school-style works, why isn't your son in school?

The main reason we took our two youngest out of school,(or two oldest were
in public high school at the time) was because we were reported, and found
guilty, for educational neglect for keeping our middle son home too many
days because of his asthma. And because one time when my youngest was sick,
his fever was 102.7, the principal tried to talk me into sending him to
school anyway saying that it was probably just allergies. The motto of the
school district here is "a day that a child is not in school is a day that a
child cannot learn!"

> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:28:20 EDT
> From: kbcdlovejo@...
> Subject: Re:reluctant husbands
>
> > He says that the reason he wants me to do "school" schooling with
> > them is because he doesn't want them to wind up like him.
> >
> >
> I'm sorry, but it looks like he's making your case FOR you!

I will point that out to him!
>
> He doesn't like to read---SCHOOL did that, not NO school.

Oooo, good point!

>
> Algebra? HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of kids have made it through more than one
> algebra course. What has it done for us---ummm...them? When you HAVE to
learn
> it for the test, it's NOT fun. When you learn thoroughly it because it's
FUN,
> why do you need a test?

I loved algebra, trig, and calculus in high school. And I loved studying for
tests. I am probably weird! Three of my four kids however, Hate studying!
for anything!
>
> You think unschooling's best. You've done your research. He's not willing
to
> study up on Unschooling because why?---he doesn't like to LEARN anything
new?
> He just accepts what the masses/"experts" tell him? Sounds like the
"school
> way" seriously damaged his ability to THINK independently.

I think you hit the nail on the head!


> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:42:01 -0700
> From: Debbie Bartle <rb1188@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 314
>
>
> I think you should have a heart-to-heart talk
> with your husband. Ask him what his concerns
> are, and try to be understanding, even if you
> disagree. Make sure he knows that you want
> your children to grow up believing that
> learning is a natural part of life, and not
> just something you do in school.

I plan to have a heart-to-heart talk with him about this as soon as I have
enough info to help him understand where I am coming from.

> I took history in
> school, and got good grades in it, but never
> really learned it.

I did awful in history when I was in school, and it was my least favorite
class. But now, I love learning history and it is my favorite thing to
learn! And I am learning it on my own, not taking a class.

>If children are
> encouraged to explore their interests, they'll
> learn things you could never teach them if you
> tried.

I completely agree! I just need to help my husband understand that.

> I woke up one morning about 8 years ago
> to find my kids poring over the encyclopedias,
> studying and writing down all the old alphabets
> they could find. I imagine that if I had made
> that an assignment it would have been met with
> great resistance.

Perhaps they never would have done it! Or if they had they probably would
have hated it. :-)


> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 07:48:42 -0700
> From: "Dawn Falbe" <dawn@...>
> Subject: WAS RELUCTANT HUSBAND - NOW UNHEALTHY MARRIAGES ARE THE PROBLEM
>
> I don't see this as an unschooling issue but an issue with
> marriage, which is obviously what it is. For a husband (in this case) to
> lay down the law about what he wants and yet he's not the one that's doing
> what he wants, he wants someone else to do what he wants (LOL) namely his
> wife is not healthy.

My husband knows better than to "lay down the law!" In the nearly 15 years
that we have been married, I think that he has only tried it once or twice
and it didn't work!
>
> I'm not lucky to have married a man where we have a lot in common, it was
> planned that I would be married to someone who had the same belief systems
> as me. That's not luck, that's good dating, interviewing them and then
> making a decision about whether he was marriage material, which is what he
> did with me.

My husband and I have the same basic belief system. That was something I had
made an absolute neccessity in choosing a husband. However, at the time
homeschooling of any kind was not an issue. We only decided to homeschool
after our terrible experiences with the public school district in Clovis, NM
a few years ago.
>
> I doubt whether unschooling is the only problem in a household where a
> husband has an attitude of proof.

My husband doesn't have an "attitude of proof", he just doesn't understand
and I need help in giving him info in a manner which will help him
understand.
>
> I notice the defensiveness and the continual helpful other e-mails about
how
> to give him what he wants.... My question is why? Why does a wife have to
> passify her husband's fears?

A wife needs to pacify her husband's fears for the same reason a husband
would need to pacify his wife's fears. This isn't about power, it is about
partnership and consideration. If it was about power, there wouldn't be a
problem about how to educate the kids; I would just do it my way and tell my
husband to shove off if he didn't like it or agree with it. I don't operate
that way and neither does my husband.

> The only response I can see that makes any
> sense is Sandra's in having him go with them to some unschooling events.

I don't know of any unschooling events!

> Also acting like grown women with power instead of giving it away.

Why is it that in order to act "like grown women with power" we have to take
all "power" away from our husbands? I don't think that is healthy for a
relationship.
>
> Also what does this show our children, both boys and girls. They learn
the
> majority of life skills from us and if a wife is running around like a
> chicken with her head cut off to try and give her husband what he wants it
> sets up unhealthy relationships and expectations for the kids. Boys can
> assume they will be with someone who will constantly try to please them
and
> girls learn it's their job to please men.... Don't believe me? Read some
> psychological books.

Believe me, I don't run around doing nothing but trying to please my
husband! (although I do like to please him. That is also part of marriage,
each of you trying to please the other) My husband helps tremendously with
housework, cooking, the kids, etc. (because he wants to please me!) Because
of our example of working together and trying to please each other, my
daughter, who is only 18, has managed to find an incredible boyfriend, also
18, who has no ego hangups about "women's work" and "men's work". And you
can find psychological books to support any viewpoint that you choose,
including sex is good for children, so dont' even go there. :-)

> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:02:49 -0400
> From: <ElissaJC@...>
> Subject: Re: WAS RELUCTANT HUSBAND - NOW UNHEALTHY MARRIAGES ARE THE
PROBLEM

> My husband isn't sure how this works and I would like to reassure him.
> negotiating is vital to a healthy relationship, as is trust and faith.
Joey
> didn't understand unschooling at first, not many do. I said to him, Do you
> believe that I love our children and would Never do anything to harm them
or
> make their lives more difficult? He answered Yes (ding ding ding!! you win
> the $64,000!!) I told him that I would answer any questions he had, offer
> him things that I've read, quotes from people, etc. but he must trust me
> first and then he will begin to understand. That it takes time.

I will definately try this approach with my dh.

Thanks to all who took the time to comment and give input regarding my
question on how to help my reluctant dh to see the light. They have been
very helpful. If anyone knows of any short articles about unschooling that
may be helpful, I could probably get him to read something short. Just not
an entire book. :-) Also, if anyone knows any unschoolers in the Clovis, NM
area or the Columbus, MS area, perhaps I could get in touch with them. We
don't have much time left in Clovis, so the Columbus area would be more
helpful.

Sorry this is so long.

Suzanna in NM soon to be in MS.

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/18/02 4:11:50 PM, truealaskans@... writes:

<< Also, if anyone knows any unschoolers in the Clovis, NM
area or the Columbus, MS area, perhaps I could get in touch with them. >>

I don't know of anyone in Clovis, but if you'll be in Mississippi by October,
it might be worth going to a conference in South Carolina.

http://www.schoolsoutsupport.org/index.html


Sandra, in Albuquerque (who will be in South Carolina in October! <g>)

Tia Leschke

>
>In order to do that, I would need examples of those unschooled teens. We
>don't know any. If I could have those examples, especially if we knew some,
>that would probably be all I needed to get dh to feel comfortable with
>unschooling.

You could start with the book Real Lives by Grace Llewellyn. I'm not sure
all eleven teens in the book are unschooled, but I'm sure at least some of
them are. I know I've seen mention of websites that were by and/or for
unschooled teens, but I don't remember where. You could try Googling on
unschooling +teens and see what you come up with. Are you involved with a
local support group? You might find some through them.


>The main reason we took our two youngest out of school,(or two oldest were
>in public high school at the time) was because we were reported, and found
>guilty, for educational neglect for keeping our middle son home too many
>days because of his asthma. And because one time when my youngest was sick,
>his fever was 102.7, the principal tried to talk me into sending him to
>school anyway saying that it was probably just allergies. The motto of the
>school district here is "a day that a child is not in school is a day that a
>child cannot learn!"

It's a really prevalent attitude. A couple of years ago my son was
thinking about trying school. I went to yak with the principal about how
they'd handle him, etc. Almost everything I brought up, got the answer,
"The important thing is just to get him in here." Sigh.
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/19/02 6:24:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< , I would laugh because I don't have
to prove or justify what I'm doing to him. I'm a grown up and don't need
his permission to do what I want to do.... >>

It's not about permission. It's about respect for the other person.
And I don't think anyone would suggest that in a healthy marriage you just do
whatever you want without discussion with the partner.
Especially when it comes to children.
Ren