dismay turning to more clarity
Sandra Dodd
I'm speaking at a conference Friday and Saturday. I'm printing out the schedule.
One presentation (not mine, someone else's) is called:
Homeschooling the Real (Distractable, Impatient, Argumentative, Unenthusiastic, Non-book-loving, Inattentive, Poky, Vague) Child
Just reading the title makes me feel sad.
And right after sad, I feel grateful for unschooling and unschoolers and for knowing people whose children have nothing to be impatient, argumentative or unenthusiastic about!!
It also solidifies my feeling that I would rather put my energy into a small conference with an unschooling focus than a large one with ten or fifteen things going on at one time, and some/many of those belittling to children.
My real children are sweet and good. In the past half hour I've had Holly asking me what I want to do for my birthday, and that her boyfriend wants in on it, and he has a family birthday dinner that night. (We can't combine because we don't know each other well enough yet--it's his younger brother, turned 15 today.) So we're going to consider a middle-of-the-night meal after they pick me up from the airport. Then Marty's girlfriend came in and asked about my 40th high school reunion. She and Marty are going to go with me to my home town--not to the gatherings, probably, but we'll stay in a hotel together, because most of the relatives I used to stay with aren't there anymore (biologically or geographically). Kirby called me two days ago to talk about his upcoming birthday party (here) and his job.
I think that if I had considered them distractable, impatient, argumentative, unenthusiastic, non-book-loving, inattentive, poky and vague, they might not want to hang out with me now. I think that I had *called* them distractable, impatient, argumentative, unenthusiastic, non-book-loving, inattentive, poky or vague, they wouldn't have wanted to hang out with me then, even when they were young.
THANK YOU, every unschooler who is brave enough to think it might be better to be kind and positive with your real children.
Sandra
One presentation (not mine, someone else's) is called:
Homeschooling the Real (Distractable, Impatient, Argumentative, Unenthusiastic, Non-book-loving, Inattentive, Poky, Vague) Child
Just reading the title makes me feel sad.
And right after sad, I feel grateful for unschooling and unschoolers and for knowing people whose children have nothing to be impatient, argumentative or unenthusiastic about!!
It also solidifies my feeling that I would rather put my energy into a small conference with an unschooling focus than a large one with ten or fifteen things going on at one time, and some/many of those belittling to children.
My real children are sweet and good. In the past half hour I've had Holly asking me what I want to do for my birthday, and that her boyfriend wants in on it, and he has a family birthday dinner that night. (We can't combine because we don't know each other well enough yet--it's his younger brother, turned 15 today.) So we're going to consider a middle-of-the-night meal after they pick me up from the airport. Then Marty's girlfriend came in and asked about my 40th high school reunion. She and Marty are going to go with me to my home town--not to the gatherings, probably, but we'll stay in a hotel together, because most of the relatives I used to stay with aren't there anymore (biologically or geographically). Kirby called me two days ago to talk about his upcoming birthday party (here) and his job.
I think that if I had considered them distractable, impatient, argumentative, unenthusiastic, non-book-loving, inattentive, poky and vague, they might not want to hang out with me now. I think that I had *called* them distractable, impatient, argumentative, unenthusiastic, non-book-loving, inattentive, poky or vague, they wouldn't have wanted to hang out with me then, even when they were young.
THANK YOU, every unschooler who is brave enough to think it might be better to be kind and positive with your real children.
Sandra
Lisa E Biesemeyer
-=My real children are sweet and good. In the past half hour I've had Holly
asking me what I want to do for my birthday, and that her boyfriend wants in on
it, and he has a family birthday dinner that night. (We can't combine because we
don't know each other well enough yet--it's his younger brother, turned 15
today.) So we're going to consider a middle-of-the-night meal after they pick me
up from the airport. Then Marty's girlfriend came in and asked about my 40th
high school reunion. She and Marty are going to go with me to my home town--not
to the gatherings, probably, but we'll stay in a hotel together, because most of
the relatives I used to stay with aren't there anymore (biologically or
geographically). Kirby called me two days ago to talk about his upcoming
birthday party (here) and his job.
I think that if I had considered them distractable, impatient, argumentative,
unenthusiastic, non-book-loving, inattentive, poky and vague, they might not
want to hang out with me now. I think that I had *called* them distractable,
impatient, argumentative, unenthusiastic, non-book-loving, inattentive, poky or
vague, they wouldn't have wanted to hang out with me then, even when they were
young.=-
I hope you attend that talk and stand up and say all that, Sandra. People need
to hear it.
Lisa B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
asking me what I want to do for my birthday, and that her boyfriend wants in on
it, and he has a family birthday dinner that night. (We can't combine because we
don't know each other well enough yet--it's his younger brother, turned 15
today.) So we're going to consider a middle-of-the-night meal after they pick me
up from the airport. Then Marty's girlfriend came in and asked about my 40th
high school reunion. She and Marty are going to go with me to my home town--not
to the gatherings, probably, but we'll stay in a hotel together, because most of
the relatives I used to stay with aren't there anymore (biologically or
geographically). Kirby called me two days ago to talk about his upcoming
birthday party (here) and his job.
I think that if I had considered them distractable, impatient, argumentative,
unenthusiastic, non-book-loving, inattentive, poky and vague, they might not
want to hang out with me now. I think that I had *called* them distractable,
impatient, argumentative, unenthusiastic, non-book-loving, inattentive, poky or
vague, they wouldn't have wanted to hang out with me then, even when they were
young.=-
I hope you attend that talk and stand up and say all that, Sandra. People need
to hear it.
Lisa B
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Karen
> THANK YOU, every unschooler who is brave enough to think it might be better to be kind and positive with your real children.Thank *you* for the time and energy you share with us, helping us find the confidence and clarity to be kind and positive parents who see and experience our children as real, whole people, and not silly caricatures.
Sandra Dodd
-=-I hope you attend that talk and stand up and say all that, Sandra. People need to hear it. -=-
NO WAY! I mean if people need to hear it, they can come to one of my three talks or read my site, or Joyce's, or join this list. :-)
I didn't mean "no way." I meant "Thanks."
I've never spoken at this conference before. I probably better just slip in, do my thing, and come home. I've never left a conference before it was over, but because my birthday is Sunday, I'm coming back Saturday, leaving there in the afternoon. I'm speaking twice Friday and once Saturday just before noon, and that's all.
Sandra
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NO WAY! I mean if people need to hear it, they can come to one of my three talks or read my site, or Joyce's, or join this list. :-)
I didn't mean "no way." I meant "Thanks."
I've never spoken at this conference before. I probably better just slip in, do my thing, and come home. I've never left a conference before it was over, but because my birthday is Sunday, I'm coming back Saturday, leaving there in the afternoon. I'm speaking twice Friday and once Saturday just before noon, and that's all.
Sandra
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I was curious and checked the Conference and I should not have been surprised to see who you were talking about.
I have a friend that I have met at La Leche when our older ones were just a few months old.
She now follows the Well Trained Mind and I read some of The Well trained Mind author's blog because I was curious and just did not understand my friend changed ways. Well it was pretty disturbing to me.
Just now Gigi went to the pasture with dad to check on a cow that can have a baby any day now. It is almost 10 PM here.
My kids are so cool and we are happy. I would never think of my kids in that negative light.
Thank you Sandra and the other wonderful unschooling moms that take their time to help others.
Out life is sweeter because of all of you.
Alex Polikowsky
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I have a friend that I have met at La Leche when our older ones were just a few months old.
She now follows the Well Trained Mind and I read some of The Well trained Mind author's blog because I was curious and just did not understand my friend changed ways. Well it was pretty disturbing to me.
Just now Gigi went to the pasture with dad to check on a cow that can have a baby any day now. It is almost 10 PM here.
My kids are so cool and we are happy. I would never think of my kids in that negative light.
Thank you Sandra and the other wonderful unschooling moms that take their time to help others.
Out life is sweeter because of all of you.
Alex Polikowsky
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Ed Wendell
What jumps out at me is this is considered / labeled as "the Real Child" !!!!!!!!!!!! I can see how some people would consider some children this way but this is considered "the Real Child" ???????
Does this imply that if a child is not that way then they are faking it? not real?
Lisa W.
One presentation (not mine, someone else's) is called:
Homeschooling the Real (Distractable, Impatient, Argumentative, Unenthusiastic, Non-book-loving, Inattentive, Poky, Vague) Child
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Does this imply that if a child is not that way then they are faking it? not real?
Lisa W.
One presentation (not mine, someone else's) is called:
Homeschooling the Real (Distractable, Impatient, Argumentative, Unenthusiastic, Non-book-loving, Inattentive, Poky, Vague) Child
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:40 AM, Ed Wendell wrote:
homeschool present idealized children. Children who come willingly to
the kitchen table to do their work. Children who don't balk at being
told to do a page of math problems. Children who prefer listening to
mom read the classics over watching cartoons.
The number one cause of giving up on homeschooling is trying to
recreate school at home because Real Children don't like school! ;-)
(Okay, that's not true! But most kids don't like school.)
Joyce
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> Does this imply that if a child is not that way then they are fakingI think the implication was that most descriptions of how to
> it? not real?
homeschool present idealized children. Children who come willingly to
the kitchen table to do their work. Children who don't balk at being
told to do a page of math problems. Children who prefer listening to
mom read the classics over watching cartoons.
The number one cause of giving up on homeschooling is trying to
recreate school at home because Real Children don't like school! ;-)
(Okay, that's not true! But most kids don't like school.)
Joyce
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bhmjones
On that note, allow me to thank you for being here and for your website. I direct everyone to it every time I get the opportunity. I think it is so wonderful that there exists this system where parents and children can actually exist in unison and harmony instead of persistent conflict and agony.... Many of us were raised to believe there was no other way to exist, and I am so grateful to have discovered you and unschooling.
>________________________________[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 6:58 PM
>Subject: [AlwaysLearning] dismay turning to more clarity
>
>
>
>I'm speaking at a conference Friday and Saturday. I'm printing out the schedule.
>
>One presentation (not mine, someone else's) is called:
>Homeschooling the Real (Distractable, Impatient, Argumentative, Unenthusiastic, Non-book-loving, Inattentive, Poky, Vague) Child
>
>Just reading the title makes me feel sad.
>And right after sad, I feel grateful for unschooling and unschoolers and for knowing people whose children have nothing to be impatient, argumentative or unenthusiastic about!!
>
>It also solidifies my feeling that I would rather put my energy into a small conference with an unschooling focus than a large one with ten or fifteen things going on at one time, and some/many of those belittling to children.
>
>My real children are sweet and good. In the past half hour I've had Holly asking me what I want to do for my birthday, and that her boyfriend wants in on it, and he has a family birthday dinner that night. (We can't combine because we don't know each other well enough yet--it's his younger brother, turned 15 today.) So we're going to consider a middle-of-the-night meal after they pick me up from the airport. Then Marty's girlfriend came in and asked about my 40th high school reunion. She and Marty are going to go with me to my home town--not to the gatherings, probably, but we'll stay in a hotel together, because most of the relatives I used to stay with aren't there anymore (biologically or geographically). Kirby called me two days ago to talk about his upcoming birthday party (here) and his job.
>
>I think that if I had considered them distractable, impatient, argumentative, unenthusiastic, non-book-loving, inattentive, poky and vague, they might not want to hang out with me now. I think that I had *called* them distractable, impatient, argumentative, unenthusiastic, non-book-loving, inattentive, poky or vague, they wouldn't have wanted to hang out with me then, even when they were young.
>
>THANK YOU, every unschooler who is brave enough to think it might be better to be kind and positive with your real children.
>
>Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I think it is so wonderful that there exists this system where parents and children can actually exist in unison and harmony instead of persistent conflict and agony.... Many of us were raised to believe there was no other way to exist-=-
I'm grateful to people who nudged and pulled me toward a better way of being, too. Nice adults I knew as a kid, teachers and professors who lived interesting lives and liked to share casually all that they knew (thinking of outside-of-class friendships, partly, but not exclusively), the others at Adult Children of Alcoholics and La Leche League, and years of thoughtful unschoolers who were willing to analyze the whats and whys of how to make this better.
My adult life is better than it would have been if I hadn't had children and then really examined what I was thinking and doing and feeling about all that!
Sandra
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I'm grateful to people who nudged and pulled me toward a better way of being, too. Nice adults I knew as a kid, teachers and professors who lived interesting lives and liked to share casually all that they knew (thinking of outside-of-class friendships, partly, but not exclusively), the others at Adult Children of Alcoholics and La Leche League, and years of thoughtful unschoolers who were willing to analyze the whats and whys of how to make this better.
My adult life is better than it would have been if I hadn't had children and then really examined what I was thinking and doing and feeling about all that!
Sandra
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Messyfish
Our life is sweet too because you all have a voice, and give so freely. It's so important to speak what we know to be true.
Kind regards,
Anna
BLOG:
http://messyfish.blogspot.com/
ETSY SHOP:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/messyfish?ref=seller_info
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Kind regards,
Anna
BLOG:
http://messyfish.blogspot.com/
ETSY SHOP:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/messyfish?ref=seller_info
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
There are two things in the e-mail this morning that I would like to bring to this little side chat. One is a quote from something Joyce Fetteroll wrote as a moderator in the context of another list. When I see great Joyce-logic in obscure places I want to bring it out and frame it. So although it's not of or about this list, it totally applies:
---------------
The responses list members provide are like detectives analyzing clues left behind. They reflect the patterns they observe in what they see, in the list's case, in someone's writing. They're saying "Here's the patterns I see. Here's some common causes." Those patterns are real. Why those patterns showed up in the writing is up to the original poster to think about.
The responses that feel satisfying on the list are either silence (as someone thinks about the patterns objective strangers are seeing in their writing) or "Oh, my goodness, I'd never thought about it that way," perhaps followed with some further objective analysis of the ideas.
What doesn't feel satisfying is denying what was observed. Whether someone can see in their life what was observed by others in their writing or not doesn't remove it from the writing. Denying is like snatching the writing back and editing it to provide a "better" copy to analyze. That's called tampering with evidence ;-) We're not providing judgement of the person. We're providing analysis of the writing. The judgement is up to you.
Joyce
----------------
When a mother writes (and offers to speak to others) of children being "Distractable, Impatient, Argumentative, Unenthusiastic, Non-book-loving, Inattentive, Poky, Vague," there's no taking that back. She has had those thoughts about her own children, or other people's, or both. She's not embarrassed to say so. She thinks that's normal. "Real."
In the other e-mail I'm quoting now is from someone who just read The Big Book of Unschooling and wanted to share with me that it was encouraging, and wrote, "I had a hard time narrowing down what in the book I liked the most . . . But I think it would have to be this: "If your child is more important than your vision of your child, life becomes easier." Of all the homeschooling, parenting and unschooling books I have read, that line has jumped out at me most of all."
She gave a contrasting example:
---------
I recently read a blog of a woman . . . who wanted to encourage mothers to homeschool even though it would be painful, tearful, and very difficult at times. I'm not sure why everybody buys into this notion that being a parent has to involve tears, harsh discipline, and control.
All I know is I have no interest in having a home like that.
---------
The things unschooling can provide are the exceptions that prove the rule. "The exception proves the rule" is an odd saying. I have another example I'll bring later, when I trace it back.
Sandra
---------------
The responses list members provide are like detectives analyzing clues left behind. They reflect the patterns they observe in what they see, in the list's case, in someone's writing. They're saying "Here's the patterns I see. Here's some common causes." Those patterns are real. Why those patterns showed up in the writing is up to the original poster to think about.
The responses that feel satisfying on the list are either silence (as someone thinks about the patterns objective strangers are seeing in their writing) or "Oh, my goodness, I'd never thought about it that way," perhaps followed with some further objective analysis of the ideas.
What doesn't feel satisfying is denying what was observed. Whether someone can see in their life what was observed by others in their writing or not doesn't remove it from the writing. Denying is like snatching the writing back and editing it to provide a "better" copy to analyze. That's called tampering with evidence ;-) We're not providing judgement of the person. We're providing analysis of the writing. The judgement is up to you.
Joyce
----------------
When a mother writes (and offers to speak to others) of children being "Distractable, Impatient, Argumentative, Unenthusiastic, Non-book-loving, Inattentive, Poky, Vague," there's no taking that back. She has had those thoughts about her own children, or other people's, or both. She's not embarrassed to say so. She thinks that's normal. "Real."
In the other e-mail I'm quoting now is from someone who just read The Big Book of Unschooling and wanted to share with me that it was encouraging, and wrote, "I had a hard time narrowing down what in the book I liked the most . . . But I think it would have to be this: "If your child is more important than your vision of your child, life becomes easier." Of all the homeschooling, parenting and unschooling books I have read, that line has jumped out at me most of all."
She gave a contrasting example:
---------
I recently read a blog of a woman . . . who wanted to encourage mothers to homeschool even though it would be painful, tearful, and very difficult at times. I'm not sure why everybody buys into this notion that being a parent has to involve tears, harsh discipline, and control.
All I know is I have no interest in having a home like that.
---------
The things unschooling can provide are the exceptions that prove the rule. "The exception proves the rule" is an odd saying. I have another example I'll bring later, when I trace it back.
Sandra
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I think the implication was that most descriptions of how to
homeschool present idealized children. Children who come willingly to
the kitchen table to do their work. Children who don't balk at being
told to do a page of math problems. Children who prefer listening to
mom read the classics over watching cartoons.
The number one cause of giving up on homeschooling is trying to
recreate school at home because Real Children don't like school! ;-)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Well I have read her homeschool days a couple years ago and here is the link if anyone is curious why
someone would see a child that way :
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/fall-of-2000/
It is easy to see why if that is how your days are with your children. It sounds horrible to me.
It is so far from the days in my house. Just right now I am sitting with my husband and my son watching Le Tour de France bike race and
my son just woke up and come down and is watching with us. We are talking about the race, the rads, cycling, the competitors, the attack plan and
waiting to see if their tactic is going to pan out. Gigi still sleeping in today. Life is sweet and I do tell my kids NOT TO TALK and they do not have to stay in bed until I get them.
Alex Polikowsky
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HeatherP
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
I've just been a lurker on this site for the past couple of months and I just want to say to you and this whole community how incredibly grateful I am that you all exist and I am learning so much from this community! I knew I had to find other unschoolers when the homeschooling community I was apart of a couple of years ago started a book club and was way more interested in reading the WTM and my recommendation of Dayna Martin's Radical Unschooling book (which I just loved) was pretty much poo-pooed. I do find it really funny that you and SWB would be speaking at the same homeschooling conference. I think your very different titles for your presentations say it all! I'm still looking for unschoolers in my own community here in Silver Spring, MD but I'm so grateful to find this listserv and a whole virtual community of like-minded unschoolers. So a big thank you to you and everyone on this list!
Love and light,
Heather (unschooling Mom to my six year old daughter)
>Hi Sandra,
> I'm speaking at a conference Friday and Saturday. I'm printing out the schedule.
>
>
> One presentation (not mine, someone else's) is called:
> Homeschooling the Real (Distractable, Impatient, Argumentative, Unenthusiastic, Non-book-loving, Inattentive, Poky, Vague) Child
>
> Just reading the title makes me feel sad.
> And right after sad, I feel grateful for unschooling and unschoolers and for knowing people whose children have nothing to be impatient, argumentative or unenthusiastic about!!
>
I've just been a lurker on this site for the past couple of months and I just want to say to you and this whole community how incredibly grateful I am that you all exist and I am learning so much from this community! I knew I had to find other unschoolers when the homeschooling community I was apart of a couple of years ago started a book club and was way more interested in reading the WTM and my recommendation of Dayna Martin's Radical Unschooling book (which I just loved) was pretty much poo-pooed. I do find it really funny that you and SWB would be speaking at the same homeschooling conference. I think your very different titles for your presentations say it all! I'm still looking for unschoolers in my own community here in Silver Spring, MD but I'm so grateful to find this listserv and a whole virtual community of like-minded unschoolers. So a big thank you to you and everyone on this list!
Love and light,
Heather (unschooling Mom to my six year old daughter)
Jenny Cyphers
I read this to Chamille because she was sitting right next to me. She said, "that's so mean". Then she went on to say that it is the usual way in which most parents view their kids and how disrespectful it is and how sad that it is that way.
She liked the snapshot moment of your own family that sounded much like ours, a midnight dinner simply because that is when it worked timing wise, various others wanting in on the fun, kids wanting to be around and included, and people being kind and positive with one another.
That conversation led to talking about a fb thread in which Sandra was misquoted and it was really Pam, talking about being friends with their kids. I read her the quote. She's glad that I'm her friend and she wouldn't want it any other way. She's 17. We are looking to move and she wants in. She's not looking to find a way to move out asap, she's looking to live with us for a while longer and conversely we are looking at finding a way of accommodating her needs accordingly. We have 3 extra people staying with us right now, 16, 17, and 18. Each of them want out and away from their parents. They are willing to sleep on the floor and eat ramen everyday to do that.
I never imagined that we could make a home life so nice that others would be wanting in on it, but that is what we have. These extra kids have extraordinary talents that have gone unrecognized by their own parents. It is exactly that attitude of devaluing, combined with the attitude of only valuing what school values that has directly harmed each of those kids that are almost or are adults, trying to jump into a world on their own not knowing their own worth.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
She liked the snapshot moment of your own family that sounded much like ours, a midnight dinner simply because that is when it worked timing wise, various others wanting in on the fun, kids wanting to be around and included, and people being kind and positive with one another.
That conversation led to talking about a fb thread in which Sandra was misquoted and it was really Pam, talking about being friends with their kids. I read her the quote. She's glad that I'm her friend and she wouldn't want it any other way. She's 17. We are looking to move and she wants in. She's not looking to find a way to move out asap, she's looking to live with us for a while longer and conversely we are looking at finding a way of accommodating her needs accordingly. We have 3 extra people staying with us right now, 16, 17, and 18. Each of them want out and away from their parents. They are willing to sleep on the floor and eat ramen everyday to do that.
I never imagined that we could make a home life so nice that others would be wanting in on it, but that is what we have. These extra kids have extraordinary talents that have gone unrecognized by their own parents. It is exactly that attitude of devaluing, combined with the attitude of only valuing what school values that has directly harmed each of those kids that are almost or are adults, trying to jump into a world on their own not knowing their own worth.
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Jenny Cyphers
***(Okay, that's not true! But most kids don't like school.)***
I have yet to meet a kid that truly does like school! Not even one! I hear they may exist, but they have yet to materialize any where near me!
The only time I hear of one is when a parent of one says their own child likes school.
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I have yet to meet a kid that truly does like school! Not even one! I hear they may exist, but they have yet to materialize any where near me!
The only time I hear of one is when a parent of one says their own child likes school.
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Claire Darbaud
2011/7/21 Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...>
not a child anymore.
But I totally remember how much I LOVED school. There were things to do,
stuff to explore, other kids to play with, fascinating things to learn... I
started kindergarten at age 2, and I loved it so much I wanted to go on
Wednesdays and Sundays (schools are closes on Wednesdays in France). I
refused to believe my mum and for months she had to take me to school on
Wednesdays and Sundays to prove that it was closed.
Home was boring and dull. My older sister was 9 years older then me and she
treated me as an annoying brat, my mum didn't like playing, my dad wasn't
there even when he was there. School was a fantastic, fascinating, exciting
place! That lasted until I went to french "college" (ie: 7th grade to 10th
grade I guess).
It's only fairly recently, having kids of my own and reflecting on my
childhood that I've realised the "drawbacks" there were in going to school.
I know for a fact some kids love school because I sure did!
The only time I hear of one is when a parent of one says their own child
they went to school until last February. I suppose/hope they find enough
excitement and interest in being home and doing the things we do together.
Claire
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> **I don't know if I qualify because I'm not geographically near you and I'm
>
>
> ***(Okay, that's not true! But most kids don't like school.)***
>
> I have yet to meet a kid that truly does like school! Not even one! I
> hear they may exist, but they have yet to materialize any where near me!
>
not a child anymore.
But I totally remember how much I LOVED school. There were things to do,
stuff to explore, other kids to play with, fascinating things to learn... I
started kindergarten at age 2, and I loved it so much I wanted to go on
Wednesdays and Sundays (schools are closes on Wednesdays in France). I
refused to believe my mum and for months she had to take me to school on
Wednesdays and Sundays to prove that it was closed.
Home was boring and dull. My older sister was 9 years older then me and she
treated me as an annoying brat, my mum didn't like playing, my dad wasn't
there even when he was there. School was a fantastic, fascinating, exciting
place! That lasted until I went to french "college" (ie: 7th grade to 10th
grade I guess).
It's only fairly recently, having kids of my own and reflecting on my
childhood that I've realised the "drawbacks" there were in going to school.
I know for a fact some kids love school because I sure did!
The only time I hear of one is when a parent of one says their own child
> likes school.My kids don't like school. At all. Neither of them. They are 5 and 7 and
>
they went to school until last February. I suppose/hope they find enough
excitement and interest in being home and doing the things we do together.
Claire
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Sandra Dodd
-=- These extra kids have extraordinary talents that have gone unrecognized by their own parents. It is exactly that attitude of devaluing, combined with the attitude of only valuing what school values that has directly harmed each of those kids that are almost or are adults, trying to jump into a world on their own not knowing their own worth.-=-
I laughed a little, picturing some sort of orphanage for the artistically gifted. :-) Or a halfway house where people break into musical numbers in the cafeteria.
Sandra
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I laughed a little, picturing some sort of orphanage for the artistically gifted. :-) Or a halfway house where people break into musical numbers in the cafeteria.
Sandra
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plaidpanties666
Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
When I was a kid in school, I would have said I liked school, but I also didn't have very many options outside of school. My parents weren't the sort who would step outside their comfort zone for me - I didn't like what they liked so they didn't know what to do with me, even when I made suggestions (wow, that could turn into a rant in a hurry - I'll leave it at that). For much of my childhood, school was a kind of escape from people who weren't cruel but whose best intentions had very little to do with my real needs and interests.
---Meredith
> I have yet to meet a kid that truly does like school! Not even one! I hear they may exist, but they have yet to materialize any where near me!*******************
When I was a kid in school, I would have said I liked school, but I also didn't have very many options outside of school. My parents weren't the sort who would step outside their comfort zone for me - I didn't like what they liked so they didn't know what to do with me, even when I made suggestions (wow, that could turn into a rant in a hurry - I'll leave it at that). For much of my childhood, school was a kind of escape from people who weren't cruel but whose best intentions had very little to do with my real needs and interests.
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
Me too, on these parts:
-=-But I totally remember how much I LOVED school. There were things to do,
stuff to explore, other kids to play with, fascinating things to learn...
-=-Home was boring and dull.-=-
Loved music classes, singing, art, reading, the library, generally loved the cafeteria, loved the playground.
But that was a long time ago, and my homelife ranged from drab to dangerous. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-But I totally remember how much I LOVED school. There were things to do,
stuff to explore, other kids to play with, fascinating things to learn...
-=-Home was boring and dull.-=-
Loved music classes, singing, art, reading, the library, generally loved the cafeteria, loved the playground.
But that was a long time ago, and my homelife ranged from drab to dangerous. :-)
Sandra
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Jenny Cyphers
***I laughed a little, picturing some sort of orphanage for the artistically gifted. :-) Or a halfway house where people break into musical numbers in the cafeteria.***
It isn't far from the truth! Our home life is a little bit out of the ordinary and sometimes THAT is exactly what it feels like here! ;)
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It isn't far from the truth! Our home life is a little bit out of the ordinary and sometimes THAT is exactly what it feels like here! ;)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa E Biesemeyer
-=-=- These extra kids have extraordinary talents that have gone unrecognized by
their own parents. It is exactly that attitude of devaluing, combined with the
attitude of only valuing what school values that has directly harmed each of
those kids that are almost or are adults, trying to jump into a world on their
own not knowing their own worth.-=-
Sandra said;-=I laughed a little, picturing some sort of orphanage for the
artistically gifted. :-) Or a halfway house where people break into musical
numbers in the cafeteria.=-
In the car the other day, Rowan (5yo) announced that she will go to a singing
and dancing high school. I (a bit regrettably, I admit) reflected on how many TV
shows and movies we watch that have kids singing and dancing at school (it's a
genre, if one can call it that, that I enjoy quite a bit). Even though these
shows and movies are great fun for us, as far as I know, there are no schools,
even art schools, where kids actually sing and dance in the halls and cafeteria
:-) Anyhow, I guess if one does exist, Rowan will be attending . Though I made
it quite clear that she can sing and dance all over and up and down at home, and
her brothers, dad, and I will happily watch and applaud each time.
Lisa B
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their own parents. It is exactly that attitude of devaluing, combined with the
attitude of only valuing what school values that has directly harmed each of
those kids that are almost or are adults, trying to jump into a world on their
own not knowing their own worth.-=-
Sandra said;-=I laughed a little, picturing some sort of orphanage for the
artistically gifted. :-) Or a halfway house where people break into musical
numbers in the cafeteria.=-
In the car the other day, Rowan (5yo) announced that she will go to a singing
and dancing high school. I (a bit regrettably, I admit) reflected on how many TV
shows and movies we watch that have kids singing and dancing at school (it's a
genre, if one can call it that, that I enjoy quite a bit). Even though these
shows and movies are great fun for us, as far as I know, there are no schools,
even art schools, where kids actually sing and dance in the halls and cafeteria
:-) Anyhow, I guess if one does exist, Rowan will be attending . Though I made
it quite clear that she can sing and dance all over and up and down at home, and
her brothers, dad, and I will happily watch and applaud each time.
Lisa B
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Joanna
--- In [email protected], Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
Her mother tried homeschooling but she was really, really boring. An artist who never wanted to leave the house. Sweet, but boring, and the kids one by one went back to school. Out of the four, there is one little girl who has loved it. School for her is way better than languishing at home. But when I think of this vivacious, engaging girl it makes me so sad that things worked out the way they did.
Joanna
>I know one. Only one. So she's the exception that proves the rule! lol
> ***(Okay, that's not true! But most kids don't like school.)***
>
>
> I have yet to meet a kid that truly does like school! Not even one! I hear they may exist, but they have yet to materialize any where near me!
Her mother tried homeschooling but she was really, really boring. An artist who never wanted to leave the house. Sweet, but boring, and the kids one by one went back to school. Out of the four, there is one little girl who has loved it. School for her is way better than languishing at home. But when I think of this vivacious, engaging girl it makes me so sad that things worked out the way they did.
Joanna
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 21, 2011, at 4:18 PM, Jenny Cyphers wrote:
homeschooled.
But what complicates saying there are kids who like school is that
they don't have a choice. And what are they comparing it to? If
summers are full of parents at work with little to do, weekends are
times when parents are recovering from work, school days could be
better than the days off. It would be, comparatively, a vibrant place
full of people and interesting things to explore.
If kids imagine "not school" as being away from their friends, not
being able to explore the topics they're enjoying in school, not
exploring with people who also enjoy the topics, then school will
sound better than not school.
Like doesn't really have meaning unless someone has the ability to
choose and options that meet their needs to choose from.
Joyce
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> I have yet to meet a kid that truly does like school!I've met kids who say they like school and wouldn't want to be
homeschooled.
But what complicates saying there are kids who like school is that
they don't have a choice. And what are they comparing it to? If
summers are full of parents at work with little to do, weekends are
times when parents are recovering from work, school days could be
better than the days off. It would be, comparatively, a vibrant place
full of people and interesting things to explore.
If kids imagine "not school" as being away from their friends, not
being able to explore the topics they're enjoying in school, not
exploring with people who also enjoy the topics, then school will
sound better than not school.
Like doesn't really have meaning unless someone has the ability to
choose and options that meet their needs to choose from.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 21, 2011, at 10:28 PM, Lisa E Biesemeyer wrote:
being with a group of people who share the same love and need to dance
in the halls and break into song :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Though I madeAh, but it isn't the audience that's the draw of such fantasies. It's
> it quite clear that she can sing and dance all over and up and down
> at home, and
> her brothers, dad, and I will happily watch and applaud each time.
being with a group of people who share the same love and need to dance
in the halls and break into song :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa E Biesemeyer
> Though I made-=Ah, but it isn't the audience that's the draw of such fantasies. It's
> it quite clear that she can sing and dance all over and up and down
> at home, and
> her brothers, dad, and I will happily watch and applaud each time.
being with a group of people who share the same love and need to dance
in the halls and break into song :-)=-
Yes. I get this. I was a theater performer (mostly dramatic but also musical),
and I see that this is something she is interested in pursuing. Fortunately
there is an awesome children's theater group where we live. I've told her about
it. We saw a performance of "Cinderella" there last Christmas. When she's ready,
we'll check it out. Maybe she'll get some of her need for dancing and singing in
halls and cafeterias there. Maybe not. Either way, I will always embrace
performance in our home :)
Lisa B
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<<<<Yes. I get this. I was a theater performer (mostly dramatic but also musical),
and I see that this is something she is interested in pursuing. Fortunately
there is an awesome children's theater group where we live. I've told her about
it. We saw a performance of "Cinderella" there last Christmas. When she's ready,
we'll check it out. Maybe she'll get some of her need for dancing and singing in
halls and cafeterias there. Maybe not. Either way, I will always embrace
performance in our home :)>>>>
-=-=-=-=-=-=
Or you can have presentations/shows/ musicals at your home by improvising a stage and inviting the family and/or friends.
By recording with a video camera and showing to her or even posting on youtube ( MY daughter Gigi likes that)
Be creative. Why wait? She does not need classes or to go to a real theater now, all she needs is an audience and to perform.
Help her with that!
Alex Polikowsky
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Like doesn't really have meaning unless someone has the ability to
choose and options that meet their needs to choose from.-=-
I disagree that life doesn't have meaning for kids in school.
Some adults don't have the ability to choose, or options that meet their needs. It's too much to say their lives have no meaning.
Sandra
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choose and options that meet their needs to choose from.-=-
I disagree that life doesn't have meaning for kids in school.
Some adults don't have the ability to choose, or options that meet their needs. It's too much to say their lives have no meaning.
Sandra
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 22, 2011, at 5:51 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
If a child says she likes school but her other options are much less
interesting, her like doesn't mean as much as a child who has a rich
set of options to choose from who likes school.
Joyce
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> -=-Like doesn't really have meaning unless someone has the ability toLike doesn't have meaning, not life. It wasn't a typo ;-)
> choose and options that meet their needs to choose from.-=-
>
> I disagree that life doesn't have meaning for kids in school.
If a child says she likes school but her other options are much less
interesting, her like doesn't mean as much as a child who has a rich
set of options to choose from who likes school.
Joyce
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Like doesn't have meaning, not life. It wasn't a typo ;-)-=-
I read it wrong. Sorry. Please use quotations around the word if you mean the word itself. It was a "read-o" on my part.
Sandra
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I read it wrong. Sorry. Please use quotations around the word if you mean the word itself. It was a "read-o" on my part.
Sandra
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Marina DeLuca-Howard
<<Homeschooling the Real (Distractable, Impatient, Argumentative,
Unenthusiastic, Non-book-loving, Inattentive, Poky, Vague) Child>>
Okay here is my interpretation of an adult viewing that child
Distractible=curious, engaged with the changes in reality or the environment
around him/her
Impatient=expects an outcome on a timeline adults cannot deliver, thus
blaming the child for their own feeling of inadequacy.
Argumentative=can see more than one position on a given topic, may question
the status quo, or wisdom of practices, which could create new practices or
provide safety in the event of an authority figure with abusive tendencies.
Unenthusiastic=easily bored, seeking autonomy and not willing to encourage
bossy authority figures
Non-book loving=learning from his or her environment which might include
games, electronic devices, computers, the oral tradition
Inattentive=has a rich inner life or imagination and is not distracted by
outside activity
Poky=Small and cramped is one of the possible meanings:) I would guess that
an impatient adult would find the child's thorough exploration to be slow;)
Vague=subtly expressed, rather than clearly stated, thus requiring the
listener to pay attention and be engaged to follow the child's thinking or
feelings
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unenthusiastic, Non-book-loving, Inattentive, Poky, Vague) Child>>
Okay here is my interpretation of an adult viewing that child
Distractible=curious, engaged with the changes in reality or the environment
around him/her
Impatient=expects an outcome on a timeline adults cannot deliver, thus
blaming the child for their own feeling of inadequacy.
Argumentative=can see more than one position on a given topic, may question
the status quo, or wisdom of practices, which could create new practices or
provide safety in the event of an authority figure with abusive tendencies.
Unenthusiastic=easily bored, seeking autonomy and not willing to encourage
bossy authority figures
Non-book loving=learning from his or her environment which might include
games, electronic devices, computers, the oral tradition
Inattentive=has a rich inner life or imagination and is not distracted by
outside activity
Poky=Small and cramped is one of the possible meanings:) I would guess that
an impatient adult would find the child's thorough exploration to be slow;)
Vague=subtly expressed, rather than clearly stated, thus requiring the
listener to pay attention and be engaged to follow the child's thinking or
feelings
Marina
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