Sibling conflict and gender identification questions
lidjalynne05
I am looking for ways to better deal with a couple of situations going on in my home right now. The first problem is that my son and daughter are having more frequent conflicts and recently my daughter has been hitting or scratching my son again pretty frequently. My son is 2, my daughter is 3. It usually happens when I am right there, but don't act quickly enough to stop her. Sometimes it happens when I am in another room for a moment, or the bathroom. For example, today I was working on making a pipe cleaner butterfly that she had asked me to make for her. Both children were within my reach. My son was saying that he is Nisa, which is my daughter's name. She angrily yelled that he is not Nisa, he said he is, she yelled back that he is not, then struck him in the face.
That is pretty often how it happens around here lately. Usually they are arguing about who they are pretending to be in a play scenario or something like that. Occasionally they are just running back and forth in the living room, and then she will intentionally bump into him roughly and knock him over. The same thing happens when they jump on the bed together; they start out jumping happily, then suddenly she crashes into him and lays on top of him or falls down and starts flailing around until she hits him. I remove my son from the situation either before he gets hurt (ideally), or if I am too late, I grab him right away and console him. When they are starting to get too close on to each other while playing in these situations, I remind them to give each other more space, but this doesn't always work. I usually yell one word forcefully if she starts to hurt him as I am getting him, or as I am coming to get him. Sometimes "Stop!" or "Hey!" Afterwards I tell her that wasn't the best way to handle the situation and we talk about some of the better ways to deal with whatever was going on. Sometimes I don't talk to her about it, because we have talked about it a lot already, and I think I have a problem with talking too much to them about a lot of things, which I am working on. Sometimes I get angry, and take my son from the room to another room and close the doors, until my adrenaline settles.
Usually, Shaiah (my son), is very upset when I remove him from a situation that is starting to get ugly. He wants to play with Nisa, and doesn't want to be rescued. Neither respond well to me trying to distract them or get them engaged in a new way. When he does get hurt, usually recovers pretty quickly and often wants to play with Nisa again right away, before she is ready to play with him again. So I will try to keep them apart until she has calmed down. Other times he is not so quick to recover and will tell me he doesn't like Nisa, or that she is mean, and will cry for awhile. A lot of the time I am playing with them when this happens, although not for the past week as much because I've been sick. It has definitely seemed to escalate in the past week while I have been sick. Luckily my husband has been picking up some of the slack and playing with them a lot.
The other challenging situation I am dealing with is that my son really likes to wear dresses. First my daughter got really into dresses, and that is pretty much all she wears now. Shaiah adores Nisa, and he often copies her every move. I know that is an important way that he learns, too. I think the dress thing is a part of that. We live in the South, and I don't think it is socially acceptable or normal here for little boys to wear princess dresses, or any dresses for that matter. It isn't a huge deal, as I mostly try to keep the dress wearing to home. However, my mom knows he likes to wear dresses and is very upset about it. She's seen some pictures and heard him saying he's a beautiful princess. She has told me she thinks we are grooming him to be gay and we shouldn't allow him to wear dresses, period.
In the past month or so, Shaiah has worn a dress in public a couple of times. Once at the very small, local natural foods store and once at a big music festival with my husband and daughter. We just moved here less than a year ago and it is a pretty conservative place in many ways. People who don't know better just assume he is a girl. I still don't think it's a great idea to have him wear dresses in public. I have no problem with him wearing dresses, and I let him wear dresses whenever he wants, at home. I just think it may negatively affect our family down the road. We are an interracial couple and already pretty different in a lot of ways from many of the long time residents. There is a wave of new people moving here that aren't from the South, and they are bringing a fresh energy and economics to the area, which is part of why we are attracted to this town. It is also 30 minutes from a university town, and from my sister and her family. I am looking for some ideas on how to deal with this situation, because he is frequently inconsolable when he can't wear a dress. I don't think I can explain the situation in a way he will understand. He doesn't really understand that boys and girls wear different clothes and often tells me he is a girl. Also, I remember as a child having strong feelings that I should've been a boy and that I really was a boy in a girl's body. Sometime around puberty that went away, but I remember it pretty clearly and strongly.
Also, I could use some advice on how to stay connected and play with active toddlers while feeling lousy. I have been sick for a week with a terrible cough, low energy, and other unpleasant symptoms, and have been much more grumpy, less present and just generally not mothering the way I normally do.
Thanks!
Lydia Koltai
That is pretty often how it happens around here lately. Usually they are arguing about who they are pretending to be in a play scenario or something like that. Occasionally they are just running back and forth in the living room, and then she will intentionally bump into him roughly and knock him over. The same thing happens when they jump on the bed together; they start out jumping happily, then suddenly she crashes into him and lays on top of him or falls down and starts flailing around until she hits him. I remove my son from the situation either before he gets hurt (ideally), or if I am too late, I grab him right away and console him. When they are starting to get too close on to each other while playing in these situations, I remind them to give each other more space, but this doesn't always work. I usually yell one word forcefully if she starts to hurt him as I am getting him, or as I am coming to get him. Sometimes "Stop!" or "Hey!" Afterwards I tell her that wasn't the best way to handle the situation and we talk about some of the better ways to deal with whatever was going on. Sometimes I don't talk to her about it, because we have talked about it a lot already, and I think I have a problem with talking too much to them about a lot of things, which I am working on. Sometimes I get angry, and take my son from the room to another room and close the doors, until my adrenaline settles.
Usually, Shaiah (my son), is very upset when I remove him from a situation that is starting to get ugly. He wants to play with Nisa, and doesn't want to be rescued. Neither respond well to me trying to distract them or get them engaged in a new way. When he does get hurt, usually recovers pretty quickly and often wants to play with Nisa again right away, before she is ready to play with him again. So I will try to keep them apart until she has calmed down. Other times he is not so quick to recover and will tell me he doesn't like Nisa, or that she is mean, and will cry for awhile. A lot of the time I am playing with them when this happens, although not for the past week as much because I've been sick. It has definitely seemed to escalate in the past week while I have been sick. Luckily my husband has been picking up some of the slack and playing with them a lot.
The other challenging situation I am dealing with is that my son really likes to wear dresses. First my daughter got really into dresses, and that is pretty much all she wears now. Shaiah adores Nisa, and he often copies her every move. I know that is an important way that he learns, too. I think the dress thing is a part of that. We live in the South, and I don't think it is socially acceptable or normal here for little boys to wear princess dresses, or any dresses for that matter. It isn't a huge deal, as I mostly try to keep the dress wearing to home. However, my mom knows he likes to wear dresses and is very upset about it. She's seen some pictures and heard him saying he's a beautiful princess. She has told me she thinks we are grooming him to be gay and we shouldn't allow him to wear dresses, period.
In the past month or so, Shaiah has worn a dress in public a couple of times. Once at the very small, local natural foods store and once at a big music festival with my husband and daughter. We just moved here less than a year ago and it is a pretty conservative place in many ways. People who don't know better just assume he is a girl. I still don't think it's a great idea to have him wear dresses in public. I have no problem with him wearing dresses, and I let him wear dresses whenever he wants, at home. I just think it may negatively affect our family down the road. We are an interracial couple and already pretty different in a lot of ways from many of the long time residents. There is a wave of new people moving here that aren't from the South, and they are bringing a fresh energy and economics to the area, which is part of why we are attracted to this town. It is also 30 minutes from a university town, and from my sister and her family. I am looking for some ideas on how to deal with this situation, because he is frequently inconsolable when he can't wear a dress. I don't think I can explain the situation in a way he will understand. He doesn't really understand that boys and girls wear different clothes and often tells me he is a girl. Also, I remember as a child having strong feelings that I should've been a boy and that I really was a boy in a girl's body. Sometime around puberty that went away, but I remember it pretty clearly and strongly.
Also, I could use some advice on how to stay connected and play with active toddlers while feeling lousy. I have been sick for a week with a terrible cough, low energy, and other unpleasant symptoms, and have been much more grumpy, less present and just generally not mothering the way I normally do.
Thanks!
Lydia Koltai
Sandra Dodd
I think I would deal with cross-dressing in a boy (in the south, interracial, even moreso) by saying when he's older he can wear dresses if he still wants to. I know there are people who will disagree, but sometimes social realities and practicalities are more important than the desire to pretend we're in unschooling-world. Being a person's partner should involve helping keep them safe and acceptable.
Sandra
Sandra
Beverly
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>Another possible solution may be to create male Dress costumes...Dish dashes from the middle east, Kilts from The British Isles, toga styles from Roman times...we always had a large variety of very colorful and fun "drees-up" clothes that were available for everyday wear...it might help to read some stories from or about some of these areas or times and then just explain that he's being a charecter from one of those stories.
> I think I would deal with cross-dressing in a boy (in the south, interracial, even moreso) by saying when he's older he can wear dresses if he still wants to. I know there are people who will disagree, but sometimes social realities and practicalities are more important than the desire to pretend we're in unschooling-world. Being a person's partner should involve helping keep them safe and acceptable.
>
> Sandra
>
Deb Lewis
***The first problem is that my son and daughter are having more frequent conflicts and recently my daughter has been hitting or scratching my son again pretty frequently. My son is 2, my daughter is 3.***
Maybe she feels imposed upon. A baby brother takes up her moms time and messes with her stuff and wasn't her idea. Spend more time with her, alone if you can, and help her keep her special toys away from her brother as much as possible.
Are you noticing it more since you've been sick? Maybe she's getting sick too and has less patience with him. Maybe everyone is feeling the stress of you being less involved since you don't feel well.
They are very little. It's probably not realistic to expect two very little people to be together all day without any problems. If you can be sitting right with them more, and start noticing when things first begin to get tense, you can intervene before anybody gets hurt. Find ways to give her short breaks from her brother while everyone is still happy. Make sure she's eating enough. Little kid food needs can change suddenly. Dylan's mood was very often helped by frequent snacks. Make sure you make physical contact with her frequently, a hand on her back, a quick hug if she likes that.
***... my son really likes to wear dresses. <snip> We live in the South, and I don't think it is socially acceptable or normal here for little boys to wear princess dresses, or any dresses for that matter.***
He is really little. I don't see how it matters at all if he wears dresses. Most people won't know he's not a girl. And if anyone says anything you can smile and say he's really liking being like his sister right now, or whatever. I just don't see this as a problem. And I don't think anyone you meet will either if you're cool about it. If he was ten and going out to town by himself then it might matter. Some places a kid might get beat up. But he's two and you're always with him.
***...my mom knows he likes to wear dresses and is very upset about it. She's seen some pictures and heard him saying he's a beautiful princess. She has told me she thinks we are grooming him to be gay and we shouldn't allow him to wear dresses, period.***
If he was pretending to be a squirrel and wearing a bushy tail would you be grooming him to be a rodent? Tell her to get hold of her reason and if she can't be reasonable she can stay home. Maybe someone here can offer links about childhood play to share with your mom.
For a long time, when he was older than your son, Dylan was a person called Mrs. Quarks. Sometimes he wore a tiara and necklace and earrings. His hair was a string shopping bag wig with a pony tail.
Imaginative play sometimes involves dresses or jewelry or toy guns or toy cars or rocks. It doesn't necessarily mean your kid will be gay or a soldier or a race car driver or a cave man.
***Also, I could use some advice on how to stay connected and play with active toddlers while feeling lousy.***
Caffeine, ibuprofen, hydration, good food, chocolate, magnesium supplements if you can do any of that. Sitting right with them while they play will be valuable even if you can't be springing around. Maybe your partner can play with the kids and help you get a little more sleep at night. Do you have a friend who could come over while you nap?
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maybe she feels imposed upon. A baby brother takes up her moms time and messes with her stuff and wasn't her idea. Spend more time with her, alone if you can, and help her keep her special toys away from her brother as much as possible.
Are you noticing it more since you've been sick? Maybe she's getting sick too and has less patience with him. Maybe everyone is feeling the stress of you being less involved since you don't feel well.
They are very little. It's probably not realistic to expect two very little people to be together all day without any problems. If you can be sitting right with them more, and start noticing when things first begin to get tense, you can intervene before anybody gets hurt. Find ways to give her short breaks from her brother while everyone is still happy. Make sure she's eating enough. Little kid food needs can change suddenly. Dylan's mood was very often helped by frequent snacks. Make sure you make physical contact with her frequently, a hand on her back, a quick hug if she likes that.
***... my son really likes to wear dresses. <snip> We live in the South, and I don't think it is socially acceptable or normal here for little boys to wear princess dresses, or any dresses for that matter.***
He is really little. I don't see how it matters at all if he wears dresses. Most people won't know he's not a girl. And if anyone says anything you can smile and say he's really liking being like his sister right now, or whatever. I just don't see this as a problem. And I don't think anyone you meet will either if you're cool about it. If he was ten and going out to town by himself then it might matter. Some places a kid might get beat up. But he's two and you're always with him.
***...my mom knows he likes to wear dresses and is very upset about it. She's seen some pictures and heard him saying he's a beautiful princess. She has told me she thinks we are grooming him to be gay and we shouldn't allow him to wear dresses, period.***
If he was pretending to be a squirrel and wearing a bushy tail would you be grooming him to be a rodent? Tell her to get hold of her reason and if she can't be reasonable she can stay home. Maybe someone here can offer links about childhood play to share with your mom.
For a long time, when he was older than your son, Dylan was a person called Mrs. Quarks. Sometimes he wore a tiara and necklace and earrings. His hair was a string shopping bag wig with a pony tail.
Imaginative play sometimes involves dresses or jewelry or toy guns or toy cars or rocks. It doesn't necessarily mean your kid will be gay or a soldier or a race car driver or a cave man.
***Also, I could use some advice on how to stay connected and play with active toddlers while feeling lousy.***
Caffeine, ibuprofen, hydration, good food, chocolate, magnesium supplements if you can do any of that. Sitting right with them while they play will be valuable even if you can't be springing around. Maybe your partner can play with the kids and help you get a little more sleep at night. Do you have a friend who could come over while you nap?
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Superhero costumes are great...my kids loved to be spiderman, batman
and a host of other caped and non caped colourful crusaders. My
eldest had a best friend who was a girl and there are some cute pix of
him as a princess/ballerina. He was two and a half. Her parents
thought it was a riot.
Nobody will know if your two year old is male or female. Everyone
thought my boys were girls, though they wore mostly reds and greens.
They were not wearing dresses at the time. My eldest had a blues
clues t-shirt he loved. The shirt was a purplish blue. People who
thought he was male described him as wearing a blue shirt, but people
who thought he was female thought his shirt was purple. People who
were strangers sometimes identified him wrongly as a girl, and often
apologised. Rowan didn't understand why he should be insulted by
someone mistaking him for a girl--some of his best friends and his mom
were female:) He identified sex as genitalia. I'm a boy because I
have a penis. He once told a woman midst apology: colours don't have
sex only people do. He meant as a two/three year old he noticed
people were either male or female. We had to talk to him about the
inappropriateness of following the examples of adults in this case:
Rowan would ask adult people if they had a penis or vulva many times
as a two or three year old. He started making a big deal about it
because adults always wanted to know his sex--so he would ask theirs.
He didn't ask if they were male or female, but if they had a penis!
Confusing him was some larger men seemed to have breasts. Some woman
had short hair and some men had long hair. He wasn't meeting men in
dresses because we didn't have anyone in our small circle who ddi,
except at a cousins wedding where there were men in kilts, but lots of
women wore pants:)
My middle son took ballet at age four-five and insisted on wearing
pink slippers like all the other students. The others were girls, but
the salesman at the dance supply shop kept trying to steer him to the
black slippers and the black tights. Men in dance, especially
straight men really seem to want others to be the "correct" gender.
Marina
and a host of other caped and non caped colourful crusaders. My
eldest had a best friend who was a girl and there are some cute pix of
him as a princess/ballerina. He was two and a half. Her parents
thought it was a riot.
Nobody will know if your two year old is male or female. Everyone
thought my boys were girls, though they wore mostly reds and greens.
They were not wearing dresses at the time. My eldest had a blues
clues t-shirt he loved. The shirt was a purplish blue. People who
thought he was male described him as wearing a blue shirt, but people
who thought he was female thought his shirt was purple. People who
were strangers sometimes identified him wrongly as a girl, and often
apologised. Rowan didn't understand why he should be insulted by
someone mistaking him for a girl--some of his best friends and his mom
were female:) He identified sex as genitalia. I'm a boy because I
have a penis. He once told a woman midst apology: colours don't have
sex only people do. He meant as a two/three year old he noticed
people were either male or female. We had to talk to him about the
inappropriateness of following the examples of adults in this case:
Rowan would ask adult people if they had a penis or vulva many times
as a two or three year old. He started making a big deal about it
because adults always wanted to know his sex--so he would ask theirs.
He didn't ask if they were male or female, but if they had a penis!
Confusing him was some larger men seemed to have breasts. Some woman
had short hair and some men had long hair. He wasn't meeting men in
dresses because we didn't have anyone in our small circle who ddi,
except at a cousins wedding where there were men in kilts, but lots of
women wore pants:)
My middle son took ballet at age four-five and insisted on wearing
pink slippers like all the other students. The others were girls, but
the salesman at the dance supply shop kept trying to steer him to the
black slippers and the black tights. Men in dance, especially
straight men really seem to want others to be the "correct" gender.
Marina
On 27/06/2011, Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...> wrote:
> ***The first problem is that my son and daughter are having more frequent
> conflicts and recently my daughter has been hitting or scratching my son
> again pretty frequently. My son is 2, my daughter is 3.***
>
> Maybe she feels imposed upon. A baby brother takes up her moms time and
> messes with her stuff and wasn't her idea. Spend more time with her, alone
> if you can, and help her keep her special toys away from her brother as much
> as possible.
>
> Are you noticing it more since you've been sick? Maybe she's getting sick
> too and has less patience with him. Maybe everyone is feeling the stress
> of you being less involved since you don't feel well.
>
> They are very little. It's probably not realistic to expect two very
> little people to be together all day without any problems. If you can be
> sitting right with them more, and start noticing when things first begin to
> get tense, you can intervene before anybody gets hurt. Find ways to give
> her short breaks from her brother while everyone is still happy. Make sure
> she's eating enough. Little kid food needs can change suddenly. Dylan's
> mood was very often helped by frequent snacks. Make sure you make physical
> contact with her frequently, a hand on her back, a quick hug if she likes
> that.
>
>
> ***... my son really likes to wear dresses. <snip> We live in the South,
> and I don't think it is socially acceptable or normal here for little boys
> to wear princess dresses, or any dresses for that matter.***
>
> He is really little. I don't see how it matters at all if he wears
> dresses. Most people won't know he's not a girl. And if anyone says
> anything you can smile and say he's really liking being like his sister
> right now, or whatever. I just don't see this as a problem. And I
> don't think anyone you meet will either if you're cool about it. If he was
> ten and going out to town by himself then it might matter. Some places a
> kid might get beat up. But he's two and you're always with him.
>
> ***...my mom knows he likes to wear dresses and is very upset about it.
> She's seen some pictures and heard him saying he's a beautiful princess. She
> has told me she thinks we are grooming him to be gay and we shouldn't allow
> him to wear dresses, period.***
>
> If he was pretending to be a squirrel and wearing a bushy tail would you be
> grooming him to be a rodent? Tell her to get hold of her reason and if she
> can't be reasonable she can stay home. Maybe someone here can offer links
> about childhood play to share with your mom.
>
> For a long time, when he was older than your son, Dylan was a person called
> Mrs. Quarks. Sometimes he wore a tiara and necklace and earrings. His hair
> was a string shopping bag wig with a pony tail.
>
> Imaginative play sometimes involves dresses or jewelry or toy guns or toy
> cars or rocks. It doesn't necessarily mean your kid will be gay or a
> soldier or a race car driver or a cave man.
>
> ***Also, I could use some advice on how to stay connected and play with
> active toddlers while feeling lousy.***
>
> Caffeine, ibuprofen, hydration, good food, chocolate, magnesium supplements
> if you can do any of that. Sitting right with them while they play will be
> valuable even if you can't be springing around. Maybe your partner can play
> with the kids and help you get a little more sleep at night. Do you have
> a friend who could come over while you nap?
>
> Deb Lewis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
--
"Insomnia is almost an oasis in which those who have to think or suffer
darkly take refuge." --Colette--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
Sandra Dodd
-=
Another possible solution may be to create male Dress costumes...Dish dashes from the middle east, Kilts from The British Isles, toga styles from Roman times...we always had a large variety of very colorful and fun "drees-up" clothes that were available for everyday wear...it might help to read some stories from or about some of these areas or times and then just explain that he's being a charecter from one of those stories. -=-
ooh, that's a BETTER idea!
Tunics for Saxons or Vikings. Over leggings, maybe. Or not, if it's hot. He could carry documentation with him for historic costumes. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Another possible solution may be to create male Dress costumes...Dish dashes from the middle east, Kilts from The British Isles, toga styles from Roman times...we always had a large variety of very colorful and fun "drees-up" clothes that were available for everyday wear...it might help to read some stories from or about some of these areas or times and then just explain that he's being a charecter from one of those stories. -=-
ooh, that's a BETTER idea!
Tunics for Saxons or Vikings. Over leggings, maybe. Or not, if it's hot. He could carry documentation with him for historic costumes. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
Here's a kind of fun article from Wikipedia about the days when little boys were routinely clothed in dresses and gowns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)
I have a photograph of two of my uncles dressed in gowns. The picture was taken when they were toddlers so in 1916 or 1917.
That was for practicality and not for fun, though, so might not help the poster's mom calm down. Still, she could see her grandson was not the first boy ever to wear a dress.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)
I have a photograph of two of my uncles dressed in gowns. The picture was taken when they were toddlers so in 1916 or 1917.
That was for practicality and not for fun, though, so might not help the poster's mom calm down. Still, she could see her grandson was not the first boy ever to wear a dress.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa E Biesemeyer
-=In the past month or so, Shaiah has worn a dress in public a couple of times.
Once at the very small, local natural foods store and once at a big music
festival with my husband and daughter. We just moved here less than a year ago
and it is a pretty conservative place in many ways. People who don't know better
just assume he is a girl. I still don't think it's a great idea to have him wear
dresses in public. I have no problem with him wearing dresses, and I let him
wear dresses whenever he wants, at home. I just think it may negatively affect
our family down the road.=-
There is a book a mom wrote about her 4 year old son who enjoys dressing as a
princess: http://www.myprincessboy.com/index.asp
I have homeschooling friends whose sons at ages 2, 3, 4, and 5 years old dressed
as princesses and wore dresses out to the play ground. Our homeschooling
community was very supportive, understanding that the boys were young and
treated the dresses as a clothing choice. They likely would have been supportive
if the boys were older, too. Often parents of school children or parents not
involved in our natural parenting and homeschooling group would give odd looks,
but the boys rarely noticed (that I could tell).
At age 5 years old, both boys became more aware of how most other boys dressed
and how people responded to boys wearing dresses. One boy stopped wearing
dresses all together soon after he turned 5; he still wears pink (My daughter
gave him a pink and black camouflage hat for his birthday last year). Buying
pink t-shirts and more feminine boy clothes could be an alternative for your
son. The other boy still wears dresses that I know of (we do not see them much
anymore), which has been wonderful to watch because he is very rough and tumble
type.
I have twin, rough and tumble, 19 month old boys and a 5 year old
princess-loving daughter. As I'm typing this, one of my sons, Liam, came out of
the playroom wearing a pink satin skirt and bracelets. Yesterday, my other son,
Finnian, proudly paraded around the house wearing a Belle costume. He also
growled, played cars, threw stuff, and ran in it. There are "boy" costumes in
our costume chest, but they seem to enjoy dressing in the princess costumes the
most. Maybe this is because they have a princess-loving older sister. Maybe it's
because they like bright color and sparkles. Maybe it's because they are playing
and exploring and nothing more. Whatever the reason and despite what others
might say or think, I have decided to enjoy watching all of my children dress up
rather than judging them or fearing it or predicting their future by what they
choose to wear before age 2.
Also, when my daughter has worn out of the house overalls and a cowboy hat,
people smile and praise her. I don't think anyone has ever thought, "oh my,
that little girl will grow up to be a cowboy" or "wow, that mom is going to turn
her daughter lesbian". There is a definite double standard here. If people say
that your son will grow up gay if he dresses as a princess or wears a dress in
public, I would simply respond, "ok." and smile. Gay is not bad, and dresses
don't form a person's identity.
Lisa B
Lisa Biesemeyer
________________________________
From: lidjalynne05 <princessjasmine05@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, June 26, 2011 9:47:30 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Sibling conflict and gender identification questions
I am looking for ways to better deal with a couple of situations going on in my
home right now. The first problem is that my son and daughter are having more
frequent conflicts and recently my daughter has been hitting or scratching my
son again pretty frequently. My son is 2, my daughter is 3. It usually happens
when I am right there, but don't act quickly enough to stop her. Sometimes it
happens when I am in another room for a moment, or the bathroom. For example,
today I was working on making a pipe cleaner butterfly that she had asked me to
make for her. Both children were within my reach. My son was saying that he is
Nisa, which is my daughter's name. She angrily yelled that he is not Nisa, he
said he is, she yelled back that he is not, then struck him in the face.
That is pretty often how it happens around here lately. Usually they are
arguing about who they are pretending to be in a play scenario or something like
that. Occasionally they are just running back and forth in the living room, and
then she will intentionally bump into him roughly and knock him over. The same
thing happens when they jump on the bed together; they start out jumping
happily, then suddenly she crashes into him and lays on top of him or falls down
and starts flailing around until she hits him. I remove my son from the
situation either before he gets hurt (ideally), or if I am too late, I grab him
right away and console him. When they are starting to get too close on to each
other while playing in these situations, I remind them to give each other more
space, but this doesn't always work. I usually yell one word forcefully if she
starts to hurt him as I am getting him, or as I am coming to get him. Sometimes
"Stop!" or "Hey!" Afterwards I tell her that wasn't the best way to handle the
situation and we talk about some of the better ways to deal with whatever was
going on. Sometimes I don't talk to her about it, because we have talked about
it a lot already, and I think I have a problem with talking too much to them
about a lot of things, which I am working on. Sometimes I get angry, and take
my son from the room to another room and close the doors, until my adrenaline
settles.
Usually, Shaiah (my son), is very upset when I remove him from a situation that
is starting to get ugly. He wants to play with Nisa, and doesn't want to be
rescued. Neither respond well to me trying to distract them or get them engaged
in a new way. When he does get hurt, usually recovers pretty quickly and often
wants to play with Nisa again right away, before she is ready to play with him
again. So I will try to keep them apart until she has calmed down. Other times
he is not so quick to recover and will tell me he doesn't like Nisa, or that she
is mean, and will cry for awhile. A lot of the time I am playing with them when
this happens, although not for the past week as much because I've been sick. It
has definitely seemed to escalate in the past week while I have been sick.
Luckily my husband has been picking up some of the slack and playing with them a
lot.
The other challenging situation I am dealing with is that my son really likes to
wear dresses. First my daughter got really into dresses, and that is pretty
much all she wears now. Shaiah adores Nisa, and he often copies her every
move. I know that is an important way that he learns, too. I think the dress
thing is a part of that. We live in the South, and I don't think it is socially
acceptable or normal here for little boys to wear princess dresses, or any
dresses for that matter. It isn't a huge deal, as I mostly try to keep the
dress wearing to home. However, my mom knows he likes to wear dresses and is
very upset about it. She's seen some pictures and heard him saying he's a
beautiful princess. She has told me she thinks we are grooming him to be gay
and we shouldn't allow him to wear dresses, period.
In the past month or so, Shaiah has worn a dress in public a couple of times.
Once at the very small, local natural foods store and once at a big music
festival with my husband and daughter. We just moved here less than a year ago
and it is a pretty conservative place in many ways. People who don't know
better just assume he is a girl. I still don't think it's a great idea to have
him wear dresses in public. I have no problem with him wearing dresses, and I
let him wear dresses whenever he wants, at home. I just think it may negatively
affect our family down the road. We are an interracial couple and already
pretty different in a lot of ways from many of the long time residents. There
is a wave of new people moving here that aren't from the South, and they are
bringing a fresh energy and economics to the area, which is part of why we are
attracted to this town. It is also 30 minutes from a university town, and from
my sister and her family. I am looking for some ideas on how to deal with this
situation, because he is frequently inconsolable when he can't wear a dress. I
don't think I can explain the situation in a way he will understand. He doesn't
really understand that boys and girls wear different clothes and often tells me
he is a girl. Also, I remember as a child having strong feelings that I
should've been a boy and that I really was a boy in a girl's body. Sometime
around puberty that went away, but I remember it pretty clearly and strongly.
Also, I could use some advice on how to stay connected and play with active
toddlers while feeling lousy. I have been sick for a week with a terrible
cough, low energy, and other unpleasant symptoms, and have been much more
grumpy, less present and just generally not mothering the way I normally do.
Thanks!
Lydia Koltai
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Once at the very small, local natural foods store and once at a big music
festival with my husband and daughter. We just moved here less than a year ago
and it is a pretty conservative place in many ways. People who don't know better
just assume he is a girl. I still don't think it's a great idea to have him wear
dresses in public. I have no problem with him wearing dresses, and I let him
wear dresses whenever he wants, at home. I just think it may negatively affect
our family down the road.=-
There is a book a mom wrote about her 4 year old son who enjoys dressing as a
princess: http://www.myprincessboy.com/index.asp
I have homeschooling friends whose sons at ages 2, 3, 4, and 5 years old dressed
as princesses and wore dresses out to the play ground. Our homeschooling
community was very supportive, understanding that the boys were young and
treated the dresses as a clothing choice. They likely would have been supportive
if the boys were older, too. Often parents of school children or parents not
involved in our natural parenting and homeschooling group would give odd looks,
but the boys rarely noticed (that I could tell).
At age 5 years old, both boys became more aware of how most other boys dressed
and how people responded to boys wearing dresses. One boy stopped wearing
dresses all together soon after he turned 5; he still wears pink (My daughter
gave him a pink and black camouflage hat for his birthday last year). Buying
pink t-shirts and more feminine boy clothes could be an alternative for your
son. The other boy still wears dresses that I know of (we do not see them much
anymore), which has been wonderful to watch because he is very rough and tumble
type.
I have twin, rough and tumble, 19 month old boys and a 5 year old
princess-loving daughter. As I'm typing this, one of my sons, Liam, came out of
the playroom wearing a pink satin skirt and bracelets. Yesterday, my other son,
Finnian, proudly paraded around the house wearing a Belle costume. He also
growled, played cars, threw stuff, and ran in it. There are "boy" costumes in
our costume chest, but they seem to enjoy dressing in the princess costumes the
most. Maybe this is because they have a princess-loving older sister. Maybe it's
because they like bright color and sparkles. Maybe it's because they are playing
and exploring and nothing more. Whatever the reason and despite what others
might say or think, I have decided to enjoy watching all of my children dress up
rather than judging them or fearing it or predicting their future by what they
choose to wear before age 2.
Also, when my daughter has worn out of the house overalls and a cowboy hat,
people smile and praise her. I don't think anyone has ever thought, "oh my,
that little girl will grow up to be a cowboy" or "wow, that mom is going to turn
her daughter lesbian". There is a definite double standard here. If people say
that your son will grow up gay if he dresses as a princess or wears a dress in
public, I would simply respond, "ok." and smile. Gay is not bad, and dresses
don't form a person's identity.
Lisa B
Lisa Biesemeyer
________________________________
From: lidjalynne05 <princessjasmine05@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, June 26, 2011 9:47:30 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Sibling conflict and gender identification questions
I am looking for ways to better deal with a couple of situations going on in my
home right now. The first problem is that my son and daughter are having more
frequent conflicts and recently my daughter has been hitting or scratching my
son again pretty frequently. My son is 2, my daughter is 3. It usually happens
when I am right there, but don't act quickly enough to stop her. Sometimes it
happens when I am in another room for a moment, or the bathroom. For example,
today I was working on making a pipe cleaner butterfly that she had asked me to
make for her. Both children were within my reach. My son was saying that he is
Nisa, which is my daughter's name. She angrily yelled that he is not Nisa, he
said he is, she yelled back that he is not, then struck him in the face.
That is pretty often how it happens around here lately. Usually they are
arguing about who they are pretending to be in a play scenario or something like
that. Occasionally they are just running back and forth in the living room, and
then she will intentionally bump into him roughly and knock him over. The same
thing happens when they jump on the bed together; they start out jumping
happily, then suddenly she crashes into him and lays on top of him or falls down
and starts flailing around until she hits him. I remove my son from the
situation either before he gets hurt (ideally), or if I am too late, I grab him
right away and console him. When they are starting to get too close on to each
other while playing in these situations, I remind them to give each other more
space, but this doesn't always work. I usually yell one word forcefully if she
starts to hurt him as I am getting him, or as I am coming to get him. Sometimes
"Stop!" or "Hey!" Afterwards I tell her that wasn't the best way to handle the
situation and we talk about some of the better ways to deal with whatever was
going on. Sometimes I don't talk to her about it, because we have talked about
it a lot already, and I think I have a problem with talking too much to them
about a lot of things, which I am working on. Sometimes I get angry, and take
my son from the room to another room and close the doors, until my adrenaline
settles.
Usually, Shaiah (my son), is very upset when I remove him from a situation that
is starting to get ugly. He wants to play with Nisa, and doesn't want to be
rescued. Neither respond well to me trying to distract them or get them engaged
in a new way. When he does get hurt, usually recovers pretty quickly and often
wants to play with Nisa again right away, before she is ready to play with him
again. So I will try to keep them apart until she has calmed down. Other times
he is not so quick to recover and will tell me he doesn't like Nisa, or that she
is mean, and will cry for awhile. A lot of the time I am playing with them when
this happens, although not for the past week as much because I've been sick. It
has definitely seemed to escalate in the past week while I have been sick.
Luckily my husband has been picking up some of the slack and playing with them a
lot.
The other challenging situation I am dealing with is that my son really likes to
wear dresses. First my daughter got really into dresses, and that is pretty
much all she wears now. Shaiah adores Nisa, and he often copies her every
move. I know that is an important way that he learns, too. I think the dress
thing is a part of that. We live in the South, and I don't think it is socially
acceptable or normal here for little boys to wear princess dresses, or any
dresses for that matter. It isn't a huge deal, as I mostly try to keep the
dress wearing to home. However, my mom knows he likes to wear dresses and is
very upset about it. She's seen some pictures and heard him saying he's a
beautiful princess. She has told me she thinks we are grooming him to be gay
and we shouldn't allow him to wear dresses, period.
In the past month or so, Shaiah has worn a dress in public a couple of times.
Once at the very small, local natural foods store and once at a big music
festival with my husband and daughter. We just moved here less than a year ago
and it is a pretty conservative place in many ways. People who don't know
better just assume he is a girl. I still don't think it's a great idea to have
him wear dresses in public. I have no problem with him wearing dresses, and I
let him wear dresses whenever he wants, at home. I just think it may negatively
affect our family down the road. We are an interracial couple and already
pretty different in a lot of ways from many of the long time residents. There
is a wave of new people moving here that aren't from the South, and they are
bringing a fresh energy and economics to the area, which is part of why we are
attracted to this town. It is also 30 minutes from a university town, and from
my sister and her family. I am looking for some ideas on how to deal with this
situation, because he is frequently inconsolable when he can't wear a dress. I
don't think I can explain the situation in a way he will understand. He doesn't
really understand that boys and girls wear different clothes and often tells me
he is a girl. Also, I remember as a child having strong feelings that I
should've been a boy and that I really was a boy in a girl's body. Sometime
around puberty that went away, but I remember it pretty clearly and strongly.
Also, I could use some advice on how to stay connected and play with active
toddlers while feeling lousy. I have been sick for a week with a terrible
cough, low energy, and other unpleasant symptoms, and have been much more
grumpy, less present and just generally not mothering the way I normally do.
Thanks!
Lydia Koltai
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Also, when my daughter has worn out of the house overalls and a cowboy hat,
people smile and praise her. I don't think anyone has ever thought, "oh my,
that little girl will grow up to be a cowboy" or "wow, that mom is going to turn
her daughter lesbian". There is a definite double standard here. If people say
that your son will grow up gay if he dresses as a princess or wears a dress in
public, I would simply respond, "ok." and smile. Gay is not bad, and dresses
don't form a person's identity.-=-
I agree with all of that. There IS a double standard. There are also small towns in Texas and parts east of there where the range of choices is still extremely more narrow than other parts of the country, with potentially serious consequences, socially, financially, and sometimes worse.
I hope there aren't other countries with that sort of frightening narrow-mindedness, too. But when a family does live where those factors are real, I don't think folks from peace-and-love liberal neighborhoods should try to make them feel bad for not being more daring.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
people smile and praise her. I don't think anyone has ever thought, "oh my,
that little girl will grow up to be a cowboy" or "wow, that mom is going to turn
her daughter lesbian". There is a definite double standard here. If people say
that your son will grow up gay if he dresses as a princess or wears a dress in
public, I would simply respond, "ok." and smile. Gay is not bad, and dresses
don't form a person's identity.-=-
I agree with all of that. There IS a double standard. There are also small towns in Texas and parts east of there where the range of choices is still extremely more narrow than other parts of the country, with potentially serious consequences, socially, financially, and sometimes worse.
I hope there aren't other countries with that sort of frightening narrow-mindedness, too. But when a family does live where those factors are real, I don't think folks from peace-and-love liberal neighborhoods should try to make them feel bad for not being more daring.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
The OP mentioned possible issues with family, too, and that's one place where those other consequences can come to bear. It can be dangerous for a little boy to be known to wear dresses if its going to set him up for insults from extended family members and even physical abuse. Those could be reasons to avoid extended family for awhile! Or it could be a matter of talking about the kinds of rules that other people have. You can't cuss in grandma's company and if you're a boy, you can't wear dresses and other "pretty" things, either. As kids get older, it can be an opportunity to talk about social issues and how customs can change over time.
---Meredith
>> There IS a double standard. There are also small towns in Texas and parts east of there where the range of choices is still extremely more narrow than other parts of the country, with potentially serious consequences, socially, financially, and sometimes worse.*****************
The OP mentioned possible issues with family, too, and that's one place where those other consequences can come to bear. It can be dangerous for a little boy to be known to wear dresses if its going to set him up for insults from extended family members and even physical abuse. Those could be reasons to avoid extended family for awhile! Or it could be a matter of talking about the kinds of rules that other people have. You can't cuss in grandma's company and if you're a boy, you can't wear dresses and other "pretty" things, either. As kids get older, it can be an opportunity to talk about social issues and how customs can change over time.
---Meredith
sheeboo2
----Here's a kind of fun article from Wikipedia about the days when little boys were routinely clothed in dresses and gowns. ----------
I remember reading recently that boys were dressed in pink and girls in blue until the 40s. I can't find where I read that, but it seems to be true:
http://sciblogs.co.nz/bioblog/2011/05/10/pink-not-for-boys/
I love the kilt idea! My manly husband has been asking for one of these for some time: www.utilikilts.com/
maybe the OP can send some of the photos on the website to her mom.
Brie
I remember reading recently that boys were dressed in pink and girls in blue until the 40s. I can't find where I read that, but it seems to be true:
http://sciblogs.co.nz/bioblog/2011/05/10/pink-not-for-boys/
I love the kilt idea! My manly husband has been asking for one of these for some time: www.utilikilts.com/
maybe the OP can send some of the photos on the website to her mom.
Brie
catfish_friend
On Jun 26, 2011, at 9:47 PM, "lidjalynne05" <princessjasmine05@...> wrote:
Let me start by saying I'm new to Unschooling, but I have an almost 5 year old and 2 year old daughters. When DD1 was around 3.5, the physical conflicts between my two were their worst. DD1 had been pretty sweet and affectionate towards her infant sister but somewhere around age 3.5, DD1 seemed to become more brittle emotionally and started to intentionally hurt DD2.
I had a difficult time learning to control my rage when I could see DD1 calculate something like rolling the closet door over her little sister's foot intentionally. What I knew to do, but found challenging to do instinctively and consistently until more recently -- breathe, stay calm, act fast to create a barrier between the two -- preferable to removing one of the children and to use one word of what you are trying to bring into the situation...like "safety". While I check first to see if the "victim" is ok, I try to show concern in proportion to the seriousness of the situation. A cut or bruise gets immediate, individualized attention, though I might invite the other to help if the "victim" were willing with a bandage or ice, etc.
Something that makes complete sense to me now, but only used to make sense in my brain -- is that the one who is doing the hurting is often the one who actually was hurting inside first and likely needs extra TLC.
For example, my almost 5 year old and 2 were fighting over who could watch their show first (only one TV with a DVR and DVD player) and DD1 tried to poke out DD2's eye. I was sitting right there next to them so i brought them both on to my lap and talked briefly and simply in a soothing-type voice, "Hey guys, we all need safety in our home, right?". And then, "It's hard to share sometimes, but did you know that you both came from the same room? It's called a 'womb'! A womb-room that you were both in when you were in Mama's belly before you came here! Can you believe you shared that?" All this while being as sweet and calm and loving as possible, snuggling my little girls. DD2 walked off seeing something she wanted to play with and I then took DD1 over to the sofa and snuggled her some more and empathized with her.
DD1 definitely gets less attention and has learned that she enjoys letting her little sister get her needs met sometimes delaying DD1's gratification, but it is still hard time to time and I've learned to really understand her perspective and feel for her and meet her need for attention and love and connection rather than just stop the immediate pressing physical conflict. For us, it seems that she only needs a small reminder that I'm her Mama still and that I love her with all my heart before she feels all is well with the world again.
Spontaneous stories of the girls or even of my own childhood in these situations seem to really grab their attention. I never sought to distract them as a tactic, it happened spontaneously one day and I noticed that they really like to hear about when I was little like them or when they were smaller what I remember.
Maybe there is something that your little ones really respond to from you that you can also bring in to add to a situation that's in emotional deficit.
Of course, if a child is hungry or tired or under/overstimulated, those need to be addressed.
Ceci
> I am looking for ways to better deal with a couple of situations going on in my home right now. The first problem is that my son and daughter are having more frequent conflicts and recently my daughter has been hitting or scratching my son again pretty frequently. My son is 2, my daughter is 3.-----------------
Let me start by saying I'm new to Unschooling, but I have an almost 5 year old and 2 year old daughters. When DD1 was around 3.5, the physical conflicts between my two were their worst. DD1 had been pretty sweet and affectionate towards her infant sister but somewhere around age 3.5, DD1 seemed to become more brittle emotionally and started to intentionally hurt DD2.
I had a difficult time learning to control my rage when I could see DD1 calculate something like rolling the closet door over her little sister's foot intentionally. What I knew to do, but found challenging to do instinctively and consistently until more recently -- breathe, stay calm, act fast to create a barrier between the two -- preferable to removing one of the children and to use one word of what you are trying to bring into the situation...like "safety". While I check first to see if the "victim" is ok, I try to show concern in proportion to the seriousness of the situation. A cut or bruise gets immediate, individualized attention, though I might invite the other to help if the "victim" were willing with a bandage or ice, etc.
Something that makes complete sense to me now, but only used to make sense in my brain -- is that the one who is doing the hurting is often the one who actually was hurting inside first and likely needs extra TLC.
For example, my almost 5 year old and 2 were fighting over who could watch their show first (only one TV with a DVR and DVD player) and DD1 tried to poke out DD2's eye. I was sitting right there next to them so i brought them both on to my lap and talked briefly and simply in a soothing-type voice, "Hey guys, we all need safety in our home, right?". And then, "It's hard to share sometimes, but did you know that you both came from the same room? It's called a 'womb'! A womb-room that you were both in when you were in Mama's belly before you came here! Can you believe you shared that?" All this while being as sweet and calm and loving as possible, snuggling my little girls. DD2 walked off seeing something she wanted to play with and I then took DD1 over to the sofa and snuggled her some more and empathized with her.
DD1 definitely gets less attention and has learned that she enjoys letting her little sister get her needs met sometimes delaying DD1's gratification, but it is still hard time to time and I've learned to really understand her perspective and feel for her and meet her need for attention and love and connection rather than just stop the immediate pressing physical conflict. For us, it seems that she only needs a small reminder that I'm her Mama still and that I love her with all my heart before she feels all is well with the world again.
Spontaneous stories of the girls or even of my own childhood in these situations seem to really grab their attention. I never sought to distract them as a tactic, it happened spontaneously one day and I noticed that they really like to hear about when I was little like them or when they were smaller what I remember.
Maybe there is something that your little ones really respond to from you that you can also bring in to add to a situation that's in emotional deficit.
Of course, if a child is hungry or tired or under/overstimulated, those need to be addressed.
Ceci
Bun
My son will be two and a half this week. Over the fall/winter, pink became his favorite color. He often pulled out his sisters pink dress with pink and purple hearts on it and joyfully wore it to homeschool group, the library, the grocery store, etc.
I was greatful that the longer length of the dress kept him a little warmer than a regular sized long sleeved shirt. Plus, the dress wasn't bulky like most sweaters are. And he was happy to be wearing what he picked out by himself. Sure, I could have insisted that he put on a sweater or long jacket - maybe a spiderman one or another boyish dark color or generic color, but he was happy wearing what he wanted to wear and I didn't mind. It feel glad that letting him pick out a favorite article of clothing can make him feel pleased - that is such a simple, small and easy thing I can do that brings him happiness.
A few months ago, I was shopping for sneakers at JC Penny's for my daughter and she found a cool pair of light up sparkly sneakers. My son found and tried on a pair of pink velcro sneakers. Easy to get on/off and his favorite color. Because he liked them, I bought them for him. He still wears them almost every day.
He sometimes wears my daughters old pink swim diaper too.
People may have thought he was a girl unless they knew him because he had curlish longish hair. His hair is now short, although when he wears even just the pink sneakers, people sometimes assume he is a girl. Sometimes I correct them, sometimes I let it go. If they say something or seemed surprised when I tell them he is a boy who loves to wear pink or a dress, I may lightheartedly add that it doesn't matter to me if he wears a dress or not as a young child, and that if he wanted to wear them when he's ten, I'd still love him! And by that age he'd know that he might expect some comments, etc from others and the culture in general.
My first and my third children are girls. My second and fourth children are boys. I did notice that each of the kids went through a phase where they wanted to wear or do what the next oldest did. My second son liked to wear a dress and play dress up with his sister for a while. Eventually he got into Spiderman and the Hulk, etc. To me and for the culture in which we live and with consideration to whom we associate with, I feel comfortable letting my two year old child pick out what he wants to wear, even if it isn't the accepted norm. I would rather support my child's preferences and choices and deal with a few explanations or whatever criticism's might be said.
We have no one in our family that I know of who would physically hurt my son for wearing a dress or pink. If I ever thought they would, I would stay the heck away from them as that kind of a person would not be the kind of person I would consider safe for me or my kids to be around.
Laurie (mom to Katie, 13, Li 9, Makana 6, and Kanoa 2)
I was greatful that the longer length of the dress kept him a little warmer than a regular sized long sleeved shirt. Plus, the dress wasn't bulky like most sweaters are. And he was happy to be wearing what he picked out by himself. Sure, I could have insisted that he put on a sweater or long jacket - maybe a spiderman one or another boyish dark color or generic color, but he was happy wearing what he wanted to wear and I didn't mind. It feel glad that letting him pick out a favorite article of clothing can make him feel pleased - that is such a simple, small and easy thing I can do that brings him happiness.
A few months ago, I was shopping for sneakers at JC Penny's for my daughter and she found a cool pair of light up sparkly sneakers. My son found and tried on a pair of pink velcro sneakers. Easy to get on/off and his favorite color. Because he liked them, I bought them for him. He still wears them almost every day.
He sometimes wears my daughters old pink swim diaper too.
People may have thought he was a girl unless they knew him because he had curlish longish hair. His hair is now short, although when he wears even just the pink sneakers, people sometimes assume he is a girl. Sometimes I correct them, sometimes I let it go. If they say something or seemed surprised when I tell them he is a boy who loves to wear pink or a dress, I may lightheartedly add that it doesn't matter to me if he wears a dress or not as a young child, and that if he wanted to wear them when he's ten, I'd still love him! And by that age he'd know that he might expect some comments, etc from others and the culture in general.
My first and my third children are girls. My second and fourth children are boys. I did notice that each of the kids went through a phase where they wanted to wear or do what the next oldest did. My second son liked to wear a dress and play dress up with his sister for a while. Eventually he got into Spiderman and the Hulk, etc. To me and for the culture in which we live and with consideration to whom we associate with, I feel comfortable letting my two year old child pick out what he wants to wear, even if it isn't the accepted norm. I would rather support my child's preferences and choices and deal with a few explanations or whatever criticism's might be said.
We have no one in our family that I know of who would physically hurt my son for wearing a dress or pink. If I ever thought they would, I would stay the heck away from them as that kind of a person would not be the kind of person I would consider safe for me or my kids to be around.
Laurie (mom to Katie, 13, Li 9, Makana 6, and Kanoa 2)
lydia reiter
Bun wrote
***If they say something or seemed surprised when I tell them he is a boy
who loves to wear pink or a dress, I may lightheartedly add that it
doesn't matter to me if he wears a dress or not as a young child, and
that if he wanted to wear them when he's ten, I'd still love him! And
by that age he'd know that he might expect some comments, etc from
others and the culture in general. ***
In the South he is likely to get negative comments, etc at the age of 2 from perfect strangers, even if his mother is right next to him. The culture is very different. A interracial couple is already at a social disadvantage in the South. I would not assume that no one would know he was a boy. If you are in a small or medium size town, it is a much more likely that almost everyone will know.
Once at a playground an older man approached my kids and I and asked in a very friendly manner, "Are you kids ready for school next week?" My daughter replied, "We're home schooled." He immediately started lecturing my kids, ages 5 and 7, about the importance of going to school as though I wasn't even there. I cut him short and left immediately, but it was still a bad experience for my kids. The culture here is extremely intolerant of anything that is different.
Lydia Reiter
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***If they say something or seemed surprised when I tell them he is a boy
who loves to wear pink or a dress, I may lightheartedly add that it
doesn't matter to me if he wears a dress or not as a young child, and
that if he wanted to wear them when he's ten, I'd still love him! And
by that age he'd know that he might expect some comments, etc from
others and the culture in general. ***
In the South he is likely to get negative comments, etc at the age of 2 from perfect strangers, even if his mother is right next to him. The culture is very different. A interracial couple is already at a social disadvantage in the South. I would not assume that no one would know he was a boy. If you are in a small or medium size town, it is a much more likely that almost everyone will know.
Once at a playground an older man approached my kids and I and asked in a very friendly manner, "Are you kids ready for school next week?" My daughter replied, "We're home schooled." He immediately started lecturing my kids, ages 5 and 7, about the importance of going to school as though I wasn't even there. I cut him short and left immediately, but it was still a bad experience for my kids. The culture here is extremely intolerant of anything that is different.
Lydia Reiter
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joy
thank you ceci, that is great advice.
I have the same issue with my ds5.75 and dd2.75. Not much physical aggression but lots of verbal stuff and him being in her face and bossing her around. This triggers the worst part of me and I didn't know how to deal with it.
The other day, I realized how I expected my almost three year old son to be a big boy before his little sister came along. Now I looked at my dd2.75 and to me she is a little baby. So I have seen the different expectations I have for them. Ds5.75 will forever be the big one. I think that is my problem.
Now I try to see them like twins at the same age. Things are improving. But still a struggle.
Thought just to add my two cents
JIHONG/joy
Sent from my iPad
I have the same issue with my ds5.75 and dd2.75. Not much physical aggression but lots of verbal stuff and him being in her face and bossing her around. This triggers the worst part of me and I didn't know how to deal with it.
The other day, I realized how I expected my almost three year old son to be a big boy before his little sister came along. Now I looked at my dd2.75 and to me she is a little baby. So I have seen the different expectations I have for them. Ds5.75 will forever be the big one. I think that is my problem.
Now I try to see them like twins at the same age. Things are improving. But still a struggle.
Thought just to add my two cents
JIHONG/joy
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:34 PM, catfish_friend <catfish_friend@...> wrote:
> On Jun 26, 2011, at 9:47 PM, "lidjalynne05" <princessjasmine05@...> wrote:
>
> > I am looking for ways to better deal with a couple of situations going on in my home right now. The first problem is that my son and daughter are having more frequent conflicts and recently my daughter has been hitting or scratching my son again pretty frequently. My son is 2, my daughter is 3.
> -----------------
>
> Let me start by saying I'm new to Unschooling, but I have an almost 5 year old and 2 year old daughters. When DD1 was around 3.5, the physical conflicts between my two were their worst. DD1 had been pretty sweet and affectionate towards her infant sister but somewhere around age 3.5, DD1 seemed to become more brittle emotionally and started to intentionally hurt DD2.
>
> I had a difficult time learning to control my rage when I could see DD1 calculate something like rolling the closet door over her little sister's foot intentionally. What I knew to do, but found challenging to do instinctively and consistently until more recently -- breathe, stay calm, act fast to create a barrier between the two -- preferable to removing one of the children and to use one word of what you are trying to bring into the situation...like "safety". While I check first to see if the "victim" is ok, I try to show concern in proportion to the seriousness of the situation. A cut or bruise gets immediate, individualized attention, though I might invite the other to help if the "victim" were willing with a bandage or ice, etc.
>
> Something that makes complete sense to me now, but only used to make sense in my brain -- is that the one who is doing the hurting is often the one who actually was hurting inside first and likely needs extra TLC.
>
> For example, my almost 5 year old and 2 were fighting over who could watch their show first (only one TV with a DVR and DVD player) and DD1 tried to poke out DD2's eye. I was sitting right there next to them so i brought them both on to my lap and talked briefly and simply in a soothing-type voice, "Hey guys, we all need safety in our home, right?". And then, "It's hard to share sometimes, but did you know that you both came from the same room? It's called a 'womb'! A womb-room that you were both in when you were in Mama's belly before you came here! Can you believe you shared that?" All this while being as sweet and calm and loving as possible, snuggling my little girls. DD2 walked off seeing something she wanted to play with and I then took DD1 over to the sofa and snuggled her some more and empathized with her.
>
> DD1 definitely gets less attention and has learned that she enjoys letting her little sister get her needs met sometimes delaying DD1's gratification, but it is still hard time to time and I've learned to really understand her perspective and feel for her and meet her need for attention and love and connection rather than just stop the immediate pressing physical conflict. For us, it seems that she only needs a small reminder that I'm her Mama still and that I love her with all my heart before she feels all is well with the world again.
>
> Spontaneous stories of the girls or even of my own childhood in these situations seem to really grab their attention. I never sought to distract them as a tactic, it happened spontaneously one day and I noticed that they really like to hear about when I was little like them or when they were smaller what I remember.
>
> Maybe there is something that your little ones really respond to from you that you can also bring in to add to a situation that's in emotional deficit.
>
> Of course, if a child is hungry or tired or under/overstimulated, those need to be addressed.
>
> Ceci
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christina Cat
On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 9:47 PM, lidjalynne05
<princessjasmine05@...>wrote:
counterintuitive, but sometimes its the 'aggressor' who needs a large
outflow of love & support in these situations, especially if your son isn't
wanting to be rescued, or feeling a need to be consoled. Its possible that
is even stronger in a situation where your daughter may feel like she's
losing her own identity (her name, clothes, gender, ect) to her little
brother - and when she strikes out against it, she also loses feeling mom's
love & attention.
Christina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<princessjasmine05@...>wrote:
> I am looking for ways to better deal with a couple of situations going onCan you focus more on your daughter when separating them? Its
> in my home right now. The first problem is that my son and daughter are
> having more frequent conflicts and recently my daughter has been hitting or
> scratching my son again pretty frequently.
>
> I remove my son from the situation either before he gets hurt (ideally),
> or if I am too late, I grab him right away and console him.
>
> Usually, Shaiah (my son), is very upset when I remove him from a situation
> that is starting to get ugly. He wants to play with Nisa, and doesn't want
> to be rescued.
>
counterintuitive, but sometimes its the 'aggressor' who needs a large
outflow of love & support in these situations, especially if your son isn't
wanting to be rescued, or feeling a need to be consoled. Its possible that
is even stronger in a situation where your daughter may feel like she's
losing her own identity (her name, clothes, gender, ect) to her little
brother - and when she strikes out against it, she also loses feeling mom's
love & attention.
Christina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christina Cat
On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 9:47 PM, lidjalynne05
<princessjasmine05@...>wrote:
unschooling compatible.
http://www.genderspectrum.org/images/stories/Damaging_Supportive_Parenting.pdf
Are there other issues about your parenting or your children that your
mother & the local society doesn't approve of? (seems likely). Try applyin
the same tactics you use about the others issues to the dress wearing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephanie-brill/gender-diversity-and-kids_b_898250.html
Gender Diversity and Kids: Happiness Matters, not Nail Polish
"My son wants to wear nail polish."
"My daughter wants her hair cut very short."
These are real-life situations that parents of young children I know have
faced. And while many parents would seek to tamp down such expression out of
fear for their child's safety -- or even outrage at his or her defiance of
how boys and girls "ought to be" -- I have a very different response. I
argue that parents should encourage their children to express themselves as
they want.
I am the head of Gender Spectrum <http://www.genderspectrum.org/>, a San
Francisco-based organization for families of boys and girls who don't
conform to conventional gender stereotypes. I know that not every little
girl wants to be a princess, nor does every boy want to be a cowboy or
superhero. Yet for far too long, society's response to these children has
been either silence or mockery. It is time for this to change.
While society has changed a great deal over the last few decades, the notion
of rigid gender roles continues to thrive in ways that play no small part in
our children's upbringing. As parents, we instruct gender, but so too do the
media, schools, and religious institutions. Gender roles and expectations
become intricately woven into the fabric of our beings without our even
realizing it.
Through my work over the past two decades with parents, I have found that it
can consequently be incredibly hard for parents to simply allow their
children to express themselves. But this is only even an issue because many
of the things children naturally want to do, and the ways children naturally
want to express themselves have had a stamp of gender added to them.
Hairstyles, toys, and clothing preferences have no innate gender, yet few of
us hesitate to attach a gender to them.
I argue that our basic values as parents should not change simply because we
are thinking about our sons rather than our daughters, or vice versa. The
important question isn't whether this style of dress, toy, or nail polish is
appropriate for a son or daughter; it's whether it's appropriate for a
child.
These things are not expressions of gender -- they are natural expressions
of self. If we simply love and support our children equally, without judging
their expression based on their gender, we are then free to focus on
instilling the values that are really important to us.
We tell our kids to be who they are and unashamed of their differences. Yet
when it comes to gender expression, we still struggle. We think: Should I
allow my child to cross this line? Where is the line, anyway? What will the
neighbors, teachers, and grandparents think? Won't I be setting him up for
teasing? Won't I be encouraging him to be gay?
We want our children to be appreciated and accepted, but we parents also
want to be approved of and accepted. This creates a sad double standard.
It is normal to feel that social change takes away our sense of security.
Each generation has these struggles with their children. But it is a natural
part of social growth. It is time to let go. When a child spends his or her
time regulating the mannerisms he or she adopts, or what he or she wears or
plays, it detracts from the same energy that children can put towards
learning and creative or athletic expression.
How do we allow our children to throw off sexist notions of self-expression,
while still keeping them safe? My answer is clear: Colors are colors, toys
are toys, clothes are clothes, and hair is hair. Each person is entitled to
express his or individuality and personal preferences to the extent that it
does not hurt anyone else. We do not disrespect others, we honor everyone's
choice to express themselves, and we self-correct if we lapse into judgment
ourselves. It is up to us, to each family, to instill these values for the
future.
Equally important is that the same values are reinforced at school. At
Gender Spectrum, we have worked with countless children in their classrooms,
and can vouch that children are ready for these changes. Education merely
requires age-appropriate discussion of matters such as how some girls prefer
short hair and some boys want to play with dolls. There is no agenda other
than understanding and acceptance. Kids of all ages are receptive to and
ready for these conversations. From there, our guidelines are simple: If we
honor and respect one another, we can all get along.
More and more parents are living these guidelines every day. At the end of
July, Gender Spectrum will hold its annual Family Conference, which will
bring hundreds of gender-nonconforming children and teenagers, their
families, and allies together. For a few days, they will have the
opportunity to see that they are not alone, to learn from each other, and to
attend a wide range of programming on the different facets of the
gender-nonconforming experience.
But of course, it all begins at home. Should you allow your son to wear nail
polish out of the house? If he likes it, why not? Wearing nail polish will
not make him gay; it will not make him transgender. It just may make him
happy.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<princessjasmine05@...>wrote:
> The other challenging situation I am dealing with is that my son reallyThis site's suggestions about supportive & damaging parenting is pretty
> likes to wear dresses. However, my mom knows he likes to wear dresses and
> is very upset about it. She's seen some pictures and heard him saying he's
> a beautiful princess. She has told me she thinks we are grooming him to be
> gay and we shouldn't allow him to wear dresses, period.
>
> We are an interracial couple and already pretty different in a lot of ways
> from many of the long time residents.
>
unschooling compatible.
http://www.genderspectrum.org/images/stories/Damaging_Supportive_Parenting.pdf
Are there other issues about your parenting or your children that your
mother & the local society doesn't approve of? (seems likely). Try applyin
the same tactics you use about the others issues to the dress wearing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephanie-brill/gender-diversity-and-kids_b_898250.html
Gender Diversity and Kids: Happiness Matters, not Nail Polish
"My son wants to wear nail polish."
"My daughter wants her hair cut very short."
These are real-life situations that parents of young children I know have
faced. And while many parents would seek to tamp down such expression out of
fear for their child's safety -- or even outrage at his or her defiance of
how boys and girls "ought to be" -- I have a very different response. I
argue that parents should encourage their children to express themselves as
they want.
I am the head of Gender Spectrum <http://www.genderspectrum.org/>, a San
Francisco-based organization for families of boys and girls who don't
conform to conventional gender stereotypes. I know that not every little
girl wants to be a princess, nor does every boy want to be a cowboy or
superhero. Yet for far too long, society's response to these children has
been either silence or mockery. It is time for this to change.
While society has changed a great deal over the last few decades, the notion
of rigid gender roles continues to thrive in ways that play no small part in
our children's upbringing. As parents, we instruct gender, but so too do the
media, schools, and religious institutions. Gender roles and expectations
become intricately woven into the fabric of our beings without our even
realizing it.
Through my work over the past two decades with parents, I have found that it
can consequently be incredibly hard for parents to simply allow their
children to express themselves. But this is only even an issue because many
of the things children naturally want to do, and the ways children naturally
want to express themselves have had a stamp of gender added to them.
Hairstyles, toys, and clothing preferences have no innate gender, yet few of
us hesitate to attach a gender to them.
I argue that our basic values as parents should not change simply because we
are thinking about our sons rather than our daughters, or vice versa. The
important question isn't whether this style of dress, toy, or nail polish is
appropriate for a son or daughter; it's whether it's appropriate for a
child.
These things are not expressions of gender -- they are natural expressions
of self. If we simply love and support our children equally, without judging
their expression based on their gender, we are then free to focus on
instilling the values that are really important to us.
We tell our kids to be who they are and unashamed of their differences. Yet
when it comes to gender expression, we still struggle. We think: Should I
allow my child to cross this line? Where is the line, anyway? What will the
neighbors, teachers, and grandparents think? Won't I be setting him up for
teasing? Won't I be encouraging him to be gay?
We want our children to be appreciated and accepted, but we parents also
want to be approved of and accepted. This creates a sad double standard.
It is normal to feel that social change takes away our sense of security.
Each generation has these struggles with their children. But it is a natural
part of social growth. It is time to let go. When a child spends his or her
time regulating the mannerisms he or she adopts, or what he or she wears or
plays, it detracts from the same energy that children can put towards
learning and creative or athletic expression.
How do we allow our children to throw off sexist notions of self-expression,
while still keeping them safe? My answer is clear: Colors are colors, toys
are toys, clothes are clothes, and hair is hair. Each person is entitled to
express his or individuality and personal preferences to the extent that it
does not hurt anyone else. We do not disrespect others, we honor everyone's
choice to express themselves, and we self-correct if we lapse into judgment
ourselves. It is up to us, to each family, to instill these values for the
future.
Equally important is that the same values are reinforced at school. At
Gender Spectrum, we have worked with countless children in their classrooms,
and can vouch that children are ready for these changes. Education merely
requires age-appropriate discussion of matters such as how some girls prefer
short hair and some boys want to play with dolls. There is no agenda other
than understanding and acceptance. Kids of all ages are receptive to and
ready for these conversations. From there, our guidelines are simple: If we
honor and respect one another, we can all get along.
More and more parents are living these guidelines every day. At the end of
July, Gender Spectrum will hold its annual Family Conference, which will
bring hundreds of gender-nonconforming children and teenagers, their
families, and allies together. For a few days, they will have the
opportunity to see that they are not alone, to learn from each other, and to
attend a wide range of programming on the different facets of the
gender-nonconforming experience.
But of course, it all begins at home. Should you allow your son to wear nail
polish out of the house? If he likes it, why not? Wearing nail polish will
not make him gay; it will not make him transgender. It just may make him
happy.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 18, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Christina Cat wrote:
Bible Belt town. It's one thing to support kids in their differences
in a city where they're likely to find people who will support them
and people who will disagree with those who would be mean to them.
It's another to suggest kids open themselves to community censure
they're not likely to be able to grasp the full extent of.
It's one thing for an adult to stand up against the mores of the
community that he believes are wrong. He can decide to leave if the
struggle becomes more than he's willing to put up with. A child can't.
Does TV and the movies make it seem like liberals are spread uniformly
across the US?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> a SanSan Francisco based? That's like light years away from an insular
> Francisco-based organization for families of boys and girls who don't
> conform to conventional gender stereotypes
Bible Belt town. It's one thing to support kids in their differences
in a city where they're likely to find people who will support them
and people who will disagree with those who would be mean to them.
It's another to suggest kids open themselves to community censure
they're not likely to be able to grasp the full extent of.
It's one thing for an adult to stand up against the mores of the
community that he believes are wrong. He can decide to leave if the
struggle becomes more than he's willing to put up with. A child can't.
Does TV and the movies make it seem like liberals are spread uniformly
across the US?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
This was very like the suggestion that I was going to give. We made my son
a kilt when he was young so that he could dress like Dad. Now that he is
15, he has his own utilikilt. He liked wearing bright flashy clothes, but
actually was not a dress up kind of kid. Weird textures bothered him a lot,
so sparkly fabrics were a no go, but he did like silky fabrics draped around
his body.
To the larger question of gender identity... I think that at two he just
wants the colorful, interesting clothes that his big sis gets. Lets face
it, sparkly princess dresses are much more interesting than any "boy's"
costume. You might try getting some sparkly material and making a fanciful
middle eastern outfit that is more socially acceptable--complete with a gold
turban and curly toed shoes. There are some amazing how-to's online that
are simple and quick. Or patterns can be had pretty easily. Remember to
make stuff big so that it lasts.
Chris
a kilt when he was young so that he could dress like Dad. Now that he is
15, he has his own utilikilt. He liked wearing bright flashy clothes, but
actually was not a dress up kind of kid. Weird textures bothered him a lot,
so sparkly fabrics were a no go, but he did like silky fabrics draped around
his body.
To the larger question of gender identity... I think that at two he just
wants the colorful, interesting clothes that his big sis gets. Lets face
it, sparkly princess dresses are much more interesting than any "boy's"
costume. You might try getting some sparkly material and making a fanciful
middle eastern outfit that is more socially acceptable--complete with a gold
turban and curly toed shoes. There are some amazing how-to's online that
are simple and quick. Or patterns can be had pretty easily. Remember to
make stuff big so that it lasts.
Chris
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> -=
> Another possible solution may be to create male Dress costumes...Dish
> dashes from the middle east, Kilts from The British Isles, toga styles from
> Roman times...we always had a large variety of very colorful and fun
> "drees-up" clothes that were available for everyday wear...it might help to
> read some stories from or about some of these areas or times and then just
> explain that he's being a charecter from one of those stories. -=-
>
> ooh, that's a BETTER idea!
>
> Tunics for Saxons or Vikings. Over leggings, maybe. Or not, if it's hot. He
> could carry documentation with him for historic costumes. :-)
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]