learning to write
Pam Sorooshian
This is a quote from someone who is associated with a Sudbury Valley School -
it is from a Psychology Today discussion resulting from one of Peter Gray's articles:
"Am I worried about Sudbury students learning to write? Not in the slightest!
Without getting into theory, I'd say that the majority of serious writing by
Sudbury students is better than the great bulk (~95%) by students of their
parental background from traditional schools.
As to why (now getting into theory) . . . Because writing is communication.
Nothing more, nothing less. People who have spent their lives developing
their world view are people who actually have*something* to say. And people
who are used to conversing freely on any/every subject (rather than passively
absorbing intellectual material) know how to speak intelligently in any/every
subject."
I would add -- when people ask me how my kids learned to write (and all three are good writers),
I would say they learned to write by talking, singing, debating, playing, thinking, watching, listening.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it is from a Psychology Today discussion resulting from one of Peter Gray's articles:
"Am I worried about Sudbury students learning to write? Not in the slightest!
Without getting into theory, I'd say that the majority of serious writing by
Sudbury students is better than the great bulk (~95%) by students of their
parental background from traditional schools.
As to why (now getting into theory) . . . Because writing is communication.
Nothing more, nothing less. People who have spent their lives developing
their world view are people who actually have*something* to say. And people
who are used to conversing freely on any/every subject (rather than passively
absorbing intellectual material) know how to speak intelligently in any/every
subject."
I would add -- when people ask me how my kids learned to write (and all three are good writers),
I would say they learned to write by talking, singing, debating, playing, thinking, watching, listening.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pat
Does anyone have experience with a child who is reluctant to write? My son will be 12 soon and it's becoming a niggling worry to me.
By way of background, I pulled him out of school 4 years ago, a few months into grade 3. Unfortunately by then his self esteem had already taken a big hit in this area. On top of that, he was never one to willingly try new things or work at something if he wasn't immediately successful, so this was a very bad few years for him.
His letters are often backwards and he forgets to put spaces between words. I think there is a physical uncomfortableness with it as well, so there is possibly a hard-wiring aspect to this.
However, he also really dislikes typing and avoids this too. I have offered to help him and have shown him a few typing programs for kids that might help him with computer games, but after initially glancing at them he says no thanks. He likes playing online games but avoids reading or writing to others and is frustrated by this.
I think he reads fairly well, however he says he dislikes it and only reads when he absolutely has to, such as when he gets really stuck in a computer game. I noticed that he memorizes the appearance of whole words, if that makes sense, as opposed to sounding or spelling them out and often guesses at words by the first few letters. Not surprisingly he struggles with spelling too.
He does tend to hang on to "I can't do it" feelings for long periods of time. I feel that this is probably a big part of the issue here, although writing is probably always going to be difficult for him. I just can't get past the guilty feelings that I contributed to screwing up his attitude towards writing by keeping him in school for so long and I really want to find a way to help him get past this negativity. He recently told me he has given up his plan to become an archeologist because he will never be able to read or write well enough.
Does anyone else deal have a child that struggles with either of these issues?
Thanks,
Pat
By way of background, I pulled him out of school 4 years ago, a few months into grade 3. Unfortunately by then his self esteem had already taken a big hit in this area. On top of that, he was never one to willingly try new things or work at something if he wasn't immediately successful, so this was a very bad few years for him.
His letters are often backwards and he forgets to put spaces between words. I think there is a physical uncomfortableness with it as well, so there is possibly a hard-wiring aspect to this.
However, he also really dislikes typing and avoids this too. I have offered to help him and have shown him a few typing programs for kids that might help him with computer games, but after initially glancing at them he says no thanks. He likes playing online games but avoids reading or writing to others and is frustrated by this.
I think he reads fairly well, however he says he dislikes it and only reads when he absolutely has to, such as when he gets really stuck in a computer game. I noticed that he memorizes the appearance of whole words, if that makes sense, as opposed to sounding or spelling them out and often guesses at words by the first few letters. Not surprisingly he struggles with spelling too.
He does tend to hang on to "I can't do it" feelings for long periods of time. I feel that this is probably a big part of the issue here, although writing is probably always going to be difficult for him. I just can't get past the guilty feelings that I contributed to screwing up his attitude towards writing by keeping him in school for so long and I really want to find a way to help him get past this negativity. He recently told me he has given up his plan to become an archeologist because he will never be able to read or write well enough.
Does anyone else deal have a child that struggles with either of these issues?
Thanks,
Pat
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/17/2011 1:18 PM, Pat wrote:
be successful college students, even.
So how well he is reading or writing wouldn't concern me.
But the attitude and feeling like he can't learn, like he is a failure,
etc - that would concern me. I think maybe the best way to counter that
is to make his world be filled with opportunities for him to be
successful, especially in meeting challenges. Physically risky
activities might be good for that, if he likes that kind of thing.
-pam
> Does anyone else deal have a child that struggles with either of theseI know kids that couldn't read or write at all at 12 and have gone on to
> issues?
be successful college students, even.
So how well he is reading or writing wouldn't concern me.
But the attitude and feeling like he can't learn, like he is a failure,
etc - that would concern me. I think maybe the best way to counter that
is to make his world be filled with opportunities for him to be
successful, especially in meeting challenges. Physically risky
activities might be good for that, if he likes that kind of thing.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-However, he also really dislikes typing and avoids this too. I have offered to help him and have shown him a few typing programs for kids that might help him with computer games, but after initially glancing at them he says no thanks. He likes playing online games but avoids reading or writing to others and is frustrated by this.-=-
I would try not to mention it in any way whatsoever for a full year. Full ban on any talk of writing, until he's 13. Don't offer typing programs. Let him figure out how to type any way he wants to, without you saying anything. It will make a difference. Holly is almost as fast as I am, typing, and she uses two fingers and I'm a touch typist. Holly and Marty can text like crazy, and I can hardly text ANYthing.
http://sandradodd.com/writing
I hope there are ideas there that will comfort you, but don't "use" any of the suggestions, because I think too much has been said and done about your son's writing, and he needs a recovery period from any pressure, mention or notice of his writing.
I think the attention and worry is doing damage, not good.
Sandra
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I would try not to mention it in any way whatsoever for a full year. Full ban on any talk of writing, until he's 13. Don't offer typing programs. Let him figure out how to type any way he wants to, without you saying anything. It will make a difference. Holly is almost as fast as I am, typing, and she uses two fingers and I'm a touch typist. Holly and Marty can text like crazy, and I can hardly text ANYthing.
http://sandradodd.com/writing
I hope there are ideas there that will comfort you, but don't "use" any of the suggestions, because I think too much has been said and done about your son's writing, and he needs a recovery period from any pressure, mention or notice of his writing.
I think the attention and worry is doing damage, not good.
Sandra
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Jenny Cyphers
***Does anyone have experience with a child who is reluctant to write? My son will be 12 soon and it's becoming a niggling worry to me.***
The very best thing that I can think to do is to shift your thinking entirely. It will help with everything else in unschooling too. Your son is focusing on what he can't do, and maybe it's coming from you.
Instead of focusing on what your child can't do, focus on what he CAN DO! You've heard the term "can do attitude"? It comes from a person's individual perception of the world. While you can't force your son to have a "can do" attitude, you can certainly change your own focus. Trust me on this one... your kid will pick up on it!
Unschooling is so much about how we perceive the world. It's so much about seeing the learning in everything. It isn't about looking around you and seeing what is lacking, that misses the boat entirely!
Have you ever tried to have a conversation with someone who asks your advice and when you give it, their answer is "yeah, but..."? It's very self defeating! There was a speaker at the recent Life is Good conference, Patti Digh, that had people pair up and do an exercise. We had to plan a b-day party. So first, one of us had to throw out ideas and the other had to say something to the effect of "yeah, but..." (I don't remember the exact phrase used). Then we did the opposite, one person threw out ideas and the other person said "yes, and..."!
The effect was powerful! It's the difference between living in a world of hopeful optimism and one of negative pessimism. We can do that to our kids without even realizing it by focusing on what they can or *can't* do.
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The very best thing that I can think to do is to shift your thinking entirely. It will help with everything else in unschooling too. Your son is focusing on what he can't do, and maybe it's coming from you.
Instead of focusing on what your child can't do, focus on what he CAN DO! You've heard the term "can do attitude"? It comes from a person's individual perception of the world. While you can't force your son to have a "can do" attitude, you can certainly change your own focus. Trust me on this one... your kid will pick up on it!
Unschooling is so much about how we perceive the world. It's so much about seeing the learning in everything. It isn't about looking around you and seeing what is lacking, that misses the boat entirely!
Have you ever tried to have a conversation with someone who asks your advice and when you give it, their answer is "yeah, but..."? It's very self defeating! There was a speaker at the recent Life is Good conference, Patti Digh, that had people pair up and do an exercise. We had to plan a b-day party. So first, one of us had to throw out ideas and the other had to say something to the effect of "yeah, but..." (I don't remember the exact phrase used). Then we did the opposite, one person threw out ideas and the other person said "yes, and..."!
The effect was powerful! It's the difference between living in a world of hopeful optimism and one of negative pessimism. We can do that to our kids without even realizing it by focusing on what they can or *can't* do.
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 17, 2011, at 4:18 PM, Pat wrote:
brains are wired. For him it's very likely he'll be able to sound out
words well after he's reading well. Right now his brain needs the
whole chunk and breaking it down doesn't make any sense.
Joyce
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> . I noticed that he memorizes the appearance of whole wordsThis *is* how some kids learn to read. It's not wrong. It's how their
brains are wired. For him it's very likely he'll be able to sound out
words well after he's reading well. Right now his brain needs the
whole chunk and breaking it down doesn't make any sense.
Joyce
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
"I noticed that he memorizes the appearance of whole words."
My son is turning 9 in a week , so still 8 ,and that is how he learned to read. He learned playing video games online and memorizing words like:
Play, Game, Yes, No, and so on. He also wrote before he could read at 3. He used letters to write Thomas ( his favorite Tank Engine) copying from the name written under the toy train, he also wrote his name at 3 and would ask me to write down something and he would copy it. By 5 he wanted to communicate online while playing so I used to sit with him and type or spell the letters so he could type. For a while I even had to point out the letters to him and sometimes he knew which one they were and then the next day he did not and the next he did remember. Then he could pick out short phrases from the list on the game he played like:" Wanna be friends" or "Follow me". Suddenly he could read everything and when he was fluently reading he started asking questions about why a word sounded that way but shouldn't it be this other way. He played a few phonics games when he was young and they made no sense to him and he really got nothing out of them.
Phonics made no sense to him at all until he was fluently reading. I think if you ask what a letter sounds like he would look at you like WHAT?
Today he is a fantastic speller and he reads really really well.
We test annually in Minnesota to comply with the State Law and he tests on a 4th grade level reading and 7th grade in spelling.
My 5 year old just wrote her name for the first time last month but she has been typing for a while. She likes to type little notes to friends on the computer. I spell and point to the letters and she types. That is about it for now. A few short months ago she made lines when she signed her name. I trust she will learn and I help when she wants, I get her favorite book and find new ones she might like at the library. I help her type notes for her friends.
Alex Polikowsky
I am not worried at all. She loves books and being read too. She will learn when ready. She is just not ready at 5 like her brother was.
Alex Polikowsky
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Sandra Dodd
"I noticed that he memorizes the appearance of whole words."
If you want to build on that, outline the shape of the word (if it's printed out in upper and lower case).
I'm not recommending you "build on that," necessarily, but the way to play around with that is to make a box, with an extension going down under words with descenders (a calligraphy term, not a reading term--the bottom parts of letters like j, g, y) and ascenders (top parts of "sticky-up" letters, even if they only stick up a tiny bit like the dot on an "i", or the top of b, l, h.) The tops of "f" and "t" are usually shorter than those three just named.
When I was in first grade, in ancient days (late 1950's), they were teaching reading that way. We learned phonics a little bit, but mostly shapes of words. I changed schools the next year and it was all phonics, but I already knew how to read anyway, so it was another way to play with words.
Hooray for computers and printers! You could type in words he likes or knows or would like to know, enlarge the font, change the fonts, make things big enough to outline with a crayon, or to color as a shape, if you wanted to play with "the appearance of whole words."
If he knows one word by appearance, maybe you could find other words with just one letter difference. But **don't "teach" it.** Just play with it, and if he shows the least lack of interest, drop it without a comment.
Sandra
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If you want to build on that, outline the shape of the word (if it's printed out in upper and lower case).
I'm not recommending you "build on that," necessarily, but the way to play around with that is to make a box, with an extension going down under words with descenders (a calligraphy term, not a reading term--the bottom parts of letters like j, g, y) and ascenders (top parts of "sticky-up" letters, even if they only stick up a tiny bit like the dot on an "i", or the top of b, l, h.) The tops of "f" and "t" are usually shorter than those three just named.
When I was in first grade, in ancient days (late 1950's), they were teaching reading that way. We learned phonics a little bit, but mostly shapes of words. I changed schools the next year and it was all phonics, but I already knew how to read anyway, so it was another way to play with words.
Hooray for computers and printers! You could type in words he likes or knows or would like to know, enlarge the font, change the fonts, make things big enough to outline with a crayon, or to color as a shape, if you wanted to play with "the appearance of whole words."
If he knows one word by appearance, maybe you could find other words with just one letter difference. But **don't "teach" it.** Just play with it, and if he shows the least lack of interest, drop it without a comment.
Sandra
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