Kids Behaving Badly spinoff
Lydia
I have a question about unschooled kids "bad" behavior especially in public. First let me give you an example that happened last week, so you know exactly to what behavior I am referring. Last week I took my 6 and 8 year old along to my teenager's cardiologist appointment. We had to wait in the hospital lobby until it was our turn. The lobby had a revolving door with four sections that my kids found interesting. They asked if they could go around in the revolving door. They each got in one section and pushed the door slowly around and around. When some one approached from the outside they stopped the door to allow the person to enter an empty section, but the person went over to the regular door and they continued going around. They only did this for 1 to 2 minutes before a hospital volunteer approached them and asked them to stop, saying she didn't want them to get hurt.
I was sitting very close to them got up when she approached them and led them back over to sit with me telling them they would have to sit down now because the hospital did not allow them to go around in the door.
The kids were not loud (they weren't talking at all) or boisterous and were merely enjoying walking around and around. They were not being unsafe. It seems more and more that it makes some people nervous if kids in public are doing anything other than sitting quietly. Should I just help my kids to sit quietly in public? I can and do bring things for them to do while we are waiting, but sometimes there are interesting things that they want to explore and I like to let them do so if it doesn't disturb others. My problem is that the kids seem to disturb others when I am unaware that their behavior is disturbing. Even now, looking back on the incident, I don't understand why they were asked to stop other than they were not sitting in a chair like everyone else.
I was sitting very close to them got up when she approached them and led them back over to sit with me telling them they would have to sit down now because the hospital did not allow them to go around in the door.
The kids were not loud (they weren't talking at all) or boisterous and were merely enjoying walking around and around. They were not being unsafe. It seems more and more that it makes some people nervous if kids in public are doing anything other than sitting quietly. Should I just help my kids to sit quietly in public? I can and do bring things for them to do while we are waiting, but sometimes there are interesting things that they want to explore and I like to let them do so if it doesn't disturb others. My problem is that the kids seem to disturb others when I am unaware that their behavior is disturbing. Even now, looking back on the incident, I don't understand why they were asked to stop other than they were not sitting in a chair like everyone else.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 15, 2011, at 1:11 PM, Lydia wrote:
That's enough. :-)
If it's happening fairly frequently then it could be others are seeing
what you aren't. And maybe you could ask. :-) Or ask a friend.
But it will happen that others will be more nervous of what your kids
might do or what might happen and will ask them to stop something you
think is not hurting anyone or anything.
The people in charge of an area are likely to err more on the side of
caution. Being there all the time, they've probably seen what your
kids were doing and have it go badly. They've seen attentive parents
whose attention has faded because the kids seemed to be using good
judgement and then their kids loose judgement in that moment.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Even now, looking back on the incident, I don't understand why theyThey were asked to stop because someone found it troublesome.
> were asked to stop other than they were not sitting in a chair like
> everyone else.
That's enough. :-)
If it's happening fairly frequently then it could be others are seeing
what you aren't. And maybe you could ask. :-) Or ask a friend.
But it will happen that others will be more nervous of what your kids
might do or what might happen and will ask them to stop something you
think is not hurting anyone or anything.
The people in charge of an area are likely to err more on the side of
caution. Being there all the time, they've probably seen what your
kids were doing and have it go badly. They've seen attentive parents
whose attention has faded because the kids seemed to be using good
judgement and then their kids loose judgement in that moment.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jill Parmer
On Jun 15, 2011, at 11:11 AM, Lydia wrote:
When my kids have done something like that, playing with something that is harmless but could get in the way of others, I either was doing it with them or standing right there. To others, they could see the kids were being attended to. When I say could get in the way of others, I mean that at one moment the area on either side of the door looks clear, and then with in moments it's busy with people who came out of seemingly nowhere.
Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I don't understand why they were asked to stop other than they were not sitting in a chair like everyone else.The hospital volunteer has probably seen lots of kids playing in the revolving door...getting hurt, impeding others, being loud, and not seen parents attending their kids. So, I can imagine that's what it looked like to her.
When my kids have done something like that, playing with something that is harmless but could get in the way of others, I either was doing it with them or standing right there. To others, they could see the kids were being attended to. When I say could get in the way of others, I mean that at one moment the area on either side of the door looks clear, and then with in moments it's busy with people who came out of seemingly nowhere.
Jill
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otherstar
From: Lydia
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 12:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Kids Behaving Badly spinoff
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 12:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Kids Behaving Badly spinoff
>>>Even now, looking back on the incident, I don't understand why they were asked to stop other than they were not sitting in a chair like everyone else.<<<It was probably a liability issue. Any accident that happens on the premises must be reported. When I was working in a college library, I did not want people getting hurt on my watch because that meant that I would have to fill out an incident report. It also meant that I would be questioned about the situation. Even though we had signs that said “no unattended children,” I would be questioned as to where I was and why I didn’t do something about the situation. It was not my job to try to make guesses as to whether or not a child was being properly monitored. It was my job to keep the library as safe as possible for all users, which meant saying something to patrons that were disturbing others or were not properly monitoring their children. I am sure that I irritated a few parents for asking them to keep a closer eye on their children. I was not willing to jeopardize my job so a completely unknown kid could play or explore in the college library.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/15/2011 10:11 AM, Lydia wrote:
extremes - play in the revolving door versus sit quietly. But In a
hospital waiting room? Mostly, yes, you should have things for them to
do so that they can sit and do something quiet or maybe walk around
quietly if it is a large enough space that they can do that without
bothering others. We were in a hospital waiting room for many hours a
few months ago and I wandered around looking at photographs they had on
the walls. I waited until people moved to look at the ones above their
heads. People in hospital waiting rooms very likely have problems on
their minds and I'd try to be especially courteous and unobtrusive in
that environment. A few times around in the revolving door with you
standing right there would seem fine, to me, but letting the kids play
in the revolving door while I sat in a chair a little ways away from
them, doesn't seem horrible, but not okay, either. People approaching
wouldn't know if the kids would have enough sense to not push it too
fast once they got in, for example, or to stop it to let me get out. I,
myself, would not step into a revolving door with a couple of young
children pushing it around because I have osteoporosis and I'd worry
that if they pushed too fast for me, or if I was trying to exit and they
suddenly started pushing it, and I stumbled, I could break a bone. On
the other hand, if the hospital waiting room was pretty much empty - if
was the middle of the night, for example, and I could stand right there
with them, I might have let my kids go round and round in that door as
long as they wanted.
-pam
> Should I just help my kids to sit quietly in public?"In public" is too broad a statement. And it doesn't have to be two
extremes - play in the revolving door versus sit quietly. But In a
hospital waiting room? Mostly, yes, you should have things for them to
do so that they can sit and do something quiet or maybe walk around
quietly if it is a large enough space that they can do that without
bothering others. We were in a hospital waiting room for many hours a
few months ago and I wandered around looking at photographs they had on
the walls. I waited until people moved to look at the ones above their
heads. People in hospital waiting rooms very likely have problems on
their minds and I'd try to be especially courteous and unobtrusive in
that environment. A few times around in the revolving door with you
standing right there would seem fine, to me, but letting the kids play
in the revolving door while I sat in a chair a little ways away from
them, doesn't seem horrible, but not okay, either. People approaching
wouldn't know if the kids would have enough sense to not push it too
fast once they got in, for example, or to stop it to let me get out. I,
myself, would not step into a revolving door with a couple of young
children pushing it around because I have osteoporosis and I'd worry
that if they pushed too fast for me, or if I was trying to exit and they
suddenly started pushing it, and I stumbled, I could break a bone. On
the other hand, if the hospital waiting room was pretty much empty - if
was the middle of the night, for example, and I could stand right there
with them, I might have let my kids go round and round in that door as
long as they wanted.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-The kids were not loud (they weren't talking at all) or boisterous and were merely enjoying walking around and around. They were not being unsafe.-=-
The revolving door didn't belong to you, so you don't really get to say what they can do with it. Same with ladders in stores, ramps, chairs in restaurants. They belong to the business. That's art of it.
-=- It seems more and more that it makes some people nervous if kids in public are doing anything other than sitting quietly.-=-
From your point of view it might seem to be increasing, but as to "more and more," it's not more than it was in the past.
-=- Should I just help my kids to sit quietly in public?-=-
Generally, yes. Or to be quiet, or to be near you. "In public" varies, but in a doctor's office, still and quiet are the traditions. There are sick people there, people who are afraid, sometimes people who are grieving. There are sanitation issues there.
-=- I can and do bring things for them to do while we are waiting, but sometimes there are interesting things that they want to explore and I like to let them do so if it doesn't disturb others-=-
Me too, and I have, and I did when my kids were younger, and it's hard to guess just right about what's too much and what's not enough. Sometimes a revolving door might be fine, and sometimes the same revolving door might not be a good idea, depending on how crowded, who's working that day, what the mood in the building is, how loud your kids are being, whether it's raining or not, whether the door was just cleaned half an hour before or not...
Sandra
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The revolving door didn't belong to you, so you don't really get to say what they can do with it. Same with ladders in stores, ramps, chairs in restaurants. They belong to the business. That's art of it.
-=- It seems more and more that it makes some people nervous if kids in public are doing anything other than sitting quietly.-=-
From your point of view it might seem to be increasing, but as to "more and more," it's not more than it was in the past.
-=- Should I just help my kids to sit quietly in public?-=-
Generally, yes. Or to be quiet, or to be near you. "In public" varies, but in a doctor's office, still and quiet are the traditions. There are sick people there, people who are afraid, sometimes people who are grieving. There are sanitation issues there.
-=- I can and do bring things for them to do while we are waiting, but sometimes there are interesting things that they want to explore and I like to let them do so if it doesn't disturb others-=-
Me too, and I have, and I did when my kids were younger, and it's hard to guess just right about what's too much and what's not enough. Sometimes a revolving door might be fine, and sometimes the same revolving door might not be a good idea, depending on how crowded, who's working that day, what the mood in the building is, how loud your kids are being, whether it's raining or not, whether the door was just cleaned half an hour before or not...
Sandra
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lydia reiter
***When my kids have done something like that, playing with something that is
harmless but could get in the way of others, I either was doing it with them or
standing right there****
This is what I decided I will do next time.
***From your point of view it might seem to be increasing, but as to "more and
more," it's not more than it was in the past.***
My eldest child is 26, so I am looking at it from a perspective of a few
decades. I'm also a few decades older so it may be affecting my judgment.
I appreciate the various perspectives on this issue. They have given me
valuable insight. Thanks for responding.
Lydia Reiter
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harmless but could get in the way of others, I either was doing it with them or
standing right there****
This is what I decided I will do next time.
***From your point of view it might seem to be increasing, but as to "more and
more," it's not more than it was in the past.***
My eldest child is 26, so I am looking at it from a perspective of a few
decades. I'm also a few decades older so it may be affecting my judgment.
I appreciate the various perspectives on this issue. They have given me
valuable insight. Thanks for responding.
Lydia Reiter
Recent Activity: * New Members 20
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Gwen Montoya
I think that kids doing something with a parent near by can still look
"unsupervised" to some people. I would have gone around a couple of times
*with* the kids (or talking to them, if there wasn't room for everyone at
once)...maybe a couple spins in each direction and then moved on. Sometimes
making it clear that I'm *with* the kids (making eye contact, smiling,
talking) helps. It also helps to make eye contact & smile with whoever seems
to be in charge (it is also a great way to gauge how they feel about what
we're doing).
I remember being in a museum & looking at a display of historical clothing.
The clothing was behind ropes (not glass) and there were signs everywhere
about not touching. I explained the rules to my kids and made sure no one
touched anything. We were followed very closely by a museum guard the whole
time we were in the room. I'm sure she was used to having to police other
people's kids. She couldn't have known that mine weren't going to touch
anything. I smiled at the guard and tried to be very obvious about being
right there with the kids...but she'd clearly had too many experiences with
kids touching things to be able to relax.
Gwen
"unsupervised" to some people. I would have gone around a couple of times
*with* the kids (or talking to them, if there wasn't room for everyone at
once)...maybe a couple spins in each direction and then moved on. Sometimes
making it clear that I'm *with* the kids (making eye contact, smiling,
talking) helps. It also helps to make eye contact & smile with whoever seems
to be in charge (it is also a great way to gauge how they feel about what
we're doing).
I remember being in a museum & looking at a display of historical clothing.
The clothing was behind ropes (not glass) and there were signs everywhere
about not touching. I explained the rules to my kids and made sure no one
touched anything. We were followed very closely by a museum guard the whole
time we were in the room. I'm sure she was used to having to police other
people's kids. She couldn't have known that mine weren't going to touch
anything. I smiled at the guard and tried to be very obvious about being
right there with the kids...but she'd clearly had too many experiences with
kids touching things to be able to relax.
Gwen
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 7:08 AM, lydia reiter <chozebah@...> wrote:
> **
>
> ***When my kids have done something like that, playing with something that
> is
> harmless but could get in the way of others, I either was doing it with
> them or
> standing right there****
>
> This is what I decided I will do next time.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Another idea would be...what if an adult were doing it? A friend of
mine who dressed very young was once reprimanded for running in a
shopping mall. The security guard began a lecture noticed she was
twenty-seven and not seventeen and then apologised. As an adult she
could check her watch, notice she was late and sprint to catch a
bus--but for kids it was "no running in the mall". She then noticed
that ladies laughing loudly were never told to keep it down, but teen
girls were told to do so. Business men who cut in line were treated
differently then ten year old boys...
Marina
mine who dressed very young was once reprimanded for running in a
shopping mall. The security guard began a lecture noticed she was
twenty-seven and not seventeen and then apologised. As an adult she
could check her watch, notice she was late and sprint to catch a
bus--but for kids it was "no running in the mall". She then noticed
that ladies laughing loudly were never told to keep it down, but teen
girls were told to do so. Business men who cut in line were treated
differently then ten year old boys...
Marina
On 17/06/2011, Gwen Montoya <lifeisjustthis@...> wrote:
> I think that kids doing something with a parent near by can still look
> "unsupervised" to some people. I would have gone around a couple of times
> *with* the kids (or talking to them, if there wasn't room for everyone at
> once)...maybe a couple spins in each direction and then moved on. Sometimes
> making it clear that I'm *with* the kids (making eye contact, smiling,
> talking) helps. It also helps to make eye contact & smile with whoever seems
> to be in charge (it is also a great way to gauge how they feel about what
> we're doing).
>
> I remember being in a museum & looking at a display of historical clothing.
> The clothing was behind ropes (not glass) and there were signs everywhere
> about not touching. I explained the rules to my kids and made sure no one
> touched anything. We were followed very closely by a museum guard the whole
> time we were in the room. I'm sure she was used to having to police other
> people's kids. She couldn't have known that mine weren't going to touch
> anything. I smiled at the guard and tried to be very obvious about being
> right there with the kids...but she'd clearly had too many experiences with
> kids touching things to be able to relax.
>
> Gwen
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 7:08 AM, lydia reiter <chozebah@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>> ***When my kids have done something like that, playing with something that
>> is
>> harmless but could get in the way of others, I either was doing it with
>> them or
>> standing right there****
>>
>> This is what I decided I will do next time.
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
--
"Insomnia is almost an oasis in which those who have to think or suffer
darkly take refuge." --Colette--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Dangerous behaviour is dangerous no matter who, or rude behaviour is
rude no matter who is doing it--but the manner in which we respond is
sometimes to shame kids, whereas we might firmly tell an adult
respectfully to stop something.(smoking comes to mind or speaking
loudly when there is an infant napping)
Marina
rude no matter who is doing it--but the manner in which we respond is
sometimes to shame kids, whereas we might firmly tell an adult
respectfully to stop something.(smoking comes to mind or speaking
loudly when there is an infant napping)
Marina
On 17/06/2011, Marina DeLuca-Howard <delucahoward@...> wrote:
> Another idea would be...what if an adult were doing it? A friend of
> mine who dressed very young was once reprimanded for running in a
> shopping mall. The security guard began a lecture noticed she was
> twenty-seven and not seventeen and then apologised. As an adult she
> could check her watch, notice she was late and sprint to catch a
> bus--but for kids it was "no running in the mall". She then noticed
> that ladies laughing loudly were never told to keep it down, but teen
> girls were told to do so. Business men who cut in line were treated
> differently then ten year old boys...
>
> Marina
>
> On 17/06/2011, Gwen Montoya <lifeisjustthis@...> wrote:
>> I think that kids doing something with a parent near by can still look
>> "unsupervised" to some people. I would have gone around a couple of times
>> *with* the kids (or talking to them, if there wasn't room for everyone at
>> once)...maybe a couple spins in each direction and then moved on.
>> Sometimes
>> making it clear that I'm *with* the kids (making eye contact, smiling,
>> talking) helps. It also helps to make eye contact & smile with whoever
>> seems
>> to be in charge (it is also a great way to gauge how they feel about what
>> we're doing).
>>
>> I remember being in a museum & looking at a display of historical
>> clothing.
>> The clothing was behind ropes (not glass) and there were signs everywhere
>> about not touching. I explained the rules to my kids and made sure no one
>> touched anything. We were followed very closely by a museum guard the
>> whole
>> time we were in the room. I'm sure she was used to having to police other
>> people's kids. She couldn't have known that mine weren't going to touch
>> anything. I smiled at the guard and tried to be very obvious about being
>> right there with the kids...but she'd clearly had too many experiences
>> with
>> kids touching things to be able to relax.
>>
>> Gwen
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 7:08 AM, lydia reiter <chozebah@...> wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> ***When my kids have done something like that, playing with something
>>> that
>>> is
>>> harmless but could get in the way of others, I either was doing it with
>>> them or
>>> standing right there****
>>>
>>> This is what I decided I will do next time.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "Insomnia is almost an oasis in which those who have to think or suffer
> darkly take refuge." --Colette--
> Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
>
--
"Insomnia is almost an oasis in which those who have to think or suffer
darkly take refuge." --Colette--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
plaidpanties666
Marina DeLuca-Howard <delucahoward@...> wrote:
It isn't kind to kids to put them in situations where strangers may accost them for their behavior. It doesn't help them learn about the world beyond assuring them that "people suck" - and really, kids have plenty of opportunities to learn that, no matter how often and well you set them up for success. Talking about why rules exist can help, as well as talking about why adults think it's okay to treat children like they do. It helps kids - and parents! - see other people more compassionately rather than antagonistically.
---Meredith
>It can be tempting to start thinking in terms of rights and discrimination - and while it Is frustrating that adults are often dismissive of children, it generally isn't helpful to get so wrapped up in those ideas that you lose sight of what's important - which is setting your kids up to have more positive, successful experiences whenever you can.
> Another idea would be...what if an adult were doing it?
It isn't kind to kids to put them in situations where strangers may accost them for their behavior. It doesn't help them learn about the world beyond assuring them that "people suck" - and really, kids have plenty of opportunities to learn that, no matter how often and well you set them up for success. Talking about why rules exist can help, as well as talking about why adults think it's okay to treat children like they do. It helps kids - and parents! - see other people more compassionately rather than antagonistically.
---Meredith
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
""Another idea would be...what if an adult were doing it? A friend of
mine who dressed very young was once reprimanded for running in a
shopping mall. The security guard began a lecture noticed she was
twenty-seven and not seventeen and then apologised. As an adult she
could check her watch, notice she was late and sprint to catch a
bus--but for kids it was "no running in the mall". She then noticed
that ladies laughing loudly were never told to keep it down, but teen
girls were told to do so. Business men who cut in line were treated
differently then ten year old boys...""
-=-=-=-=-
Yeah, Just yesterday at the pool MD wanted to do his one or two laps in the lap pool at our health club.
There are not rules that adults bump kids if kids are swimming ( not talking about playing) in the lap pool.
He was not playing. We played in the pool and he waited until a lane opened up and he went and swam on lap. When he was getting out ( I followed him on the outside) the life guard come to say that the pool was busy and that he should not swim in it because adults may want to.
I said no, there are no rules that adults bump kids that are doing laps, training in the pool and that he was not playing and that he waited like everyone else for his turn to do his lap ( and gosh it was one lap!) The lifeguard was like "huh huh oh ok"
It was all about him being a kid and she would not have said that if he was an adult.
One more reason I like to be close to my children.
Alex Polikowksy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mine who dressed very young was once reprimanded for running in a
shopping mall. The security guard began a lecture noticed she was
twenty-seven and not seventeen and then apologised. As an adult she
could check her watch, notice she was late and sprint to catch a
bus--but for kids it was "no running in the mall". She then noticed
that ladies laughing loudly were never told to keep it down, but teen
girls were told to do so. Business men who cut in line were treated
differently then ten year old boys...""
-=-=-=-=-
Yeah, Just yesterday at the pool MD wanted to do his one or two laps in the lap pool at our health club.
There are not rules that adults bump kids if kids are swimming ( not talking about playing) in the lap pool.
He was not playing. We played in the pool and he waited until a lane opened up and he went and swam on lap. When he was getting out ( I followed him on the outside) the life guard come to say that the pool was busy and that he should not swim in it because adults may want to.
I said no, there are no rules that adults bump kids that are doing laps, training in the pool and that he was not playing and that he waited like everyone else for his turn to do his lap ( and gosh it was one lap!) The lifeguard was like "huh huh oh ok"
It was all about him being a kid and she would not have said that if he was an adult.
One more reason I like to be close to my children.
Alex Polikowksy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/17/2011 11:40 AM, Marina DeLuca-Howard wrote:
doubt about that.
I also don't think that gives us a license to let them behave rudely,
either, though.
I do make a big effort in public places to step in when I think children
or teens are being treated badly. There was a kid at Starbucks the other
day, waiting his turn. He was about 10 years old but shorter than
average. The cashier looked right over him to ask the next person in
line what they wanted. The kid wasn't standing right in the "right" spot
- was just very slightly over to the side, so the cashier could have
thought he was not really in line, but he had been moving up with the
line all along and was clearly next. The next person in line started to
place their order and I leaned forward and spoke to the kid, saying, "I
think you were next, weren't you?" I said it so the cashier would hear
and look and stop and the person speaking stopped speaking and I just
kind of stood there waiting. Then the cashier looked a little flustered
and said, "Oh, sorry, what can I get for you?" to the boy. The person
next in line (in front of me) looked irritated but didn't say anything.
It was uncomfortable because the next person in line didn't immediately
say, "Oh I'm sorry, yes, he is next," but kind of glared around and
looked cranky about it. He SHOULD have realized the kid was next - it
was very obvious.
I'm sure most of you do similar things. It still surprises me how often
people seem to think they have some kind of right to be inconsiderate to
kids and teens and get miffed when I (very sweetly and pleasantly) step
in to support the kid/teen.
-pam
> She then noticedTeens and kids are often treated rudely. I don't think there is any
> that ladies laughing loudly were never told to keep it down, but teen
> girls were told to do so. Business men who cut in line were treated
> differently then ten year old boys...
doubt about that.
I also don't think that gives us a license to let them behave rudely,
either, though.
I do make a big effort in public places to step in when I think children
or teens are being treated badly. There was a kid at Starbucks the other
day, waiting his turn. He was about 10 years old but shorter than
average. The cashier looked right over him to ask the next person in
line what they wanted. The kid wasn't standing right in the "right" spot
- was just very slightly over to the side, so the cashier could have
thought he was not really in line, but he had been moving up with the
line all along and was clearly next. The next person in line started to
place their order and I leaned forward and spoke to the kid, saying, "I
think you were next, weren't you?" I said it so the cashier would hear
and look and stop and the person speaking stopped speaking and I just
kind of stood there waiting. Then the cashier looked a little flustered
and said, "Oh, sorry, what can I get for you?" to the boy. The person
next in line (in front of me) looked irritated but didn't say anything.
It was uncomfortable because the next person in line didn't immediately
say, "Oh I'm sorry, yes, he is next," but kind of glared around and
looked cranky about it. He SHOULD have realized the kid was next - it
was very obvious.
I'm sure most of you do similar things. It still surprises me how often
people seem to think they have some kind of right to be inconsiderate to
kids and teens and get miffed when I (very sweetly and pleasantly) step
in to support the kid/teen.
-pam
Claire
>>>>>>>>>sometimes there are interesting things that they want to explore and I like to let them do so if it doesn't disturb others. My problem is that the kids seem to disturb others when I am unaware that their behavior is disturbing.>>>>>>>>>>>This has also happened to me on a number of occasions, eg. my kids being asked to hop down off a tiled wall at the swimming pool, being asked not to sit on display furniture, etc. Each time the request was reasonable and voiced in a reasonable way, it's just that to me, my kids' actions were also reasonable and not disturbing to others. (Also, each time they have been asked not to do something, I have felt, rightly or wrongly, as though I was being reprimanded for not having them under control - not a nice feeling).
Reading through this thread has made me realise that perhaps I've strayed too far into what I think Holly Dodd calls 'Unschooling Land' - my prioritising my kids' explorations doesn't always match up with conventional expectations, and in public places, conventional expectations dictate appropriate behaviour. It's not always easy to get the balance right, because I feel like I have immersed myself in a kid-friendly unschooling mindset to the point where it's not immediately clear to me what the conventional expectations in certain circumstances may be. And I'm glad that I have managed over the past few years to cultivate a 'say-yes' mindset, but I also see that I should be guiding my kids in what is appropriate in particular circumstances.
Claire
Ellie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>This has also happened to me on a number of occasions,eg. my kids being asked to hop down off a tiled wall at the swimming pool,
being asked not to sit on display furniture, etc. Each time the request was
reasonable and voiced in a reasonable way, it's just that to me, my kids'
actions were also reasonable and not disturbing to others. (Also, each time
they have been asked not to do something, I have felt, rightly or wrongly,
as though I was being reprimanded for not having them under control - not a
nice feeling).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. It's not always easy to get the balance right,because I feel like I have immersed myself in a kid-friendly unschooling
mindset to the point where it's not immediately clear to me what the
conventional expectations in certain circumstances may
be>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ditto to all of the above for me too....very much so....and sometimes I feel
that 'conventional expectations' are unreasonable and are more about 'power
over' issues - that is grown up people exerting power over those smaller
than them 'because they can'......perhaps because power was not something
they experienced enough as children themselves.......in those circumstances,
where it may not be conventional behaviour, but where there is no threat of
danger/or a law suit etc, but it is just not 'conventional' and therefore
makes people uncomfortable.... I find it even harder to find the balance and
I have to work really hard to manage well the maverick or rebel within
me.....
Ellie
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Claire
Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2011 12:59 a.m.
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Kids Behaving Badly spinoff
>>>>>>>>>sometimes there are interesting things that they want to exploreand I like to let them do so if it doesn't disturb others. My problem is
that the kids seem to disturb others when I am unaware that their behavior
is disturbing.>>>>>>>>>>>
This has also happened to me on a number of occasions, eg. my kids being
asked to hop down off a tiled wall at the swimming pool, being asked not to
sit on display furniture, etc. Each time the request was reasonable and
voiced in a reasonable way, it's just that to me, my kids' actions were also
reasonable and not disturbing to others. (Also, each time they have been
asked not to do something, I have felt, rightly or wrongly, as though I was
being reprimanded for not having them under control - not a nice feeling).
Reading through this thread has made me realise that perhaps I've strayed
too far into what I think Holly Dodd calls 'Unschooling Land' - my
prioritising my kids' explorations doesn't always match up with conventional
expectations, and in public places, conventional expectations dictate
appropriate behaviour. It's not always easy to get the balance right,
because I feel like I have immersed myself in a kid-friendly unschooling
mindset to the point where it's not immediately clear to me what the
conventional expectations in certain circumstances may be. And I'm glad that
I have managed over the past few years to cultivate a 'say-yes' mindset, but
I also see that I should be guiding my kids in what is appropriate in
particular circumstances.
Claire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Ditto to all of the above for me too....very much so....and sometimes I feel
that 'conventional expectations' are unreasonable and are more about 'power
over' issues - that is grown up people exerting power over those smaller
than them 'because they can'......perhaps because power was not something
they experienced enough as children themselves......-=-
That's harsh.
If I don't want your kids to do anything on earth they want to at my house, or at an event I'm running, that would mean there was something wrong with me?
-=-in those circumstances,
where it may not be conventional behaviour, but where there is no threat of
danger/or a law suit etc, but it is just not 'conventional' and therefore
makes people uncomfortable.... I find it even harder to find the balance and
I have to work really hard to manage well the maverick or rebel within
me.....-=-
You want your children to feel comfortable, I'm assuming.
I want my children to feel comfortable, too, and sometimes that involves asking other people and their children to back off, calm down, shush up, or go home.
If my children have pushed people to the point that others have asked them to back off, calm down, shush up or go home, the message might be to avoid that place in the future, but what might be more helpful and adaptive for everyone is for my children to behave differently in different situations, and have respect for other people's moods, preferences, belongings and territory.
If one identifies more strongly with being a maverick or a rebel than with being a child's partner in learning about how to best maneuver in the world, it can be a problem.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that 'conventional expectations' are unreasonable and are more about 'power
over' issues - that is grown up people exerting power over those smaller
than them 'because they can'......perhaps because power was not something
they experienced enough as children themselves......-=-
That's harsh.
If I don't want your kids to do anything on earth they want to at my house, or at an event I'm running, that would mean there was something wrong with me?
-=-in those circumstances,
where it may not be conventional behaviour, but where there is no threat of
danger/or a law suit etc, but it is just not 'conventional' and therefore
makes people uncomfortable.... I find it even harder to find the balance and
I have to work really hard to manage well the maverick or rebel within
me.....-=-
You want your children to feel comfortable, I'm assuming.
I want my children to feel comfortable, too, and sometimes that involves asking other people and their children to back off, calm down, shush up, or go home.
If my children have pushed people to the point that others have asked them to back off, calm down, shush up or go home, the message might be to avoid that place in the future, but what might be more helpful and adaptive for everyone is for my children to behave differently in different situations, and have respect for other people's moods, preferences, belongings and territory.
If one identifies more strongly with being a maverick or a rebel than with being a child's partner in learning about how to best maneuver in the world, it can be a problem.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"Claire" <claire.horsley08@...> wrote:
It helps me to extend the same principles that create harmony at home into relationships with other adults. So if I'm out and about, I can think about the fact that people don't always like to share and they value their personal space. That's not so different from the way I approach kids, its just a different context when the stuff that's being "shared" is a display in a store and "personal space" is someone's work environment. I'm very protective of My work environment. I'll Invite people in and offer to let them play with my toys (er, tools and materials) but I don't appreciate it when people assume.
---Meredith
>> This has also happened to me on a number of occasions, eg. my kids being asked to hop down off a tiled wall at the swimming pool, being asked not to sit on display furniture, etc. Each time the request was reasonable and voiced in a reasonable way, it's just that to me, my kids' actions were also reasonable and not disturbing to others.*****************
It helps me to extend the same principles that create harmony at home into relationships with other adults. So if I'm out and about, I can think about the fact that people don't always like to share and they value their personal space. That's not so different from the way I approach kids, its just a different context when the stuff that's being "shared" is a display in a store and "personal space" is someone's work environment. I'm very protective of My work environment. I'll Invite people in and offer to let them play with my toys (er, tools and materials) but I don't appreciate it when people assume.
---Meredith
sheeboo2
-----in those circumstances, where it may not be conventional behaviour, but where there is no threat of danger/or a law suit etc, but it is just not 'conventional' and therefore
makes people uncomfortable.... I find it even harder to find the balance and
I have to work really hard to manage well the maverick or rebel within
me.....----
Something that works for us, in terms of guiding Noor's behavior in public places, is the old adage that something isn't acceptable for her if it wouldn't be acceptable for all the children in that location. While it may not be dangerous to pull a flower head off a bush, if everyone who visited the park pulled a flower head, the park wouldn't be as lovely. While it may not be dangerous for her to walk the ledge of a fountain in the mall, with me standing right there next to her, if there are a gaggle of other children around, whose parents may not be as engaged, it could be disastrous if all the other children walked the fountain wall. Same goes for sitting on store displays....what if everyone did it?
I use that idea to guide me, too, in guiding Noor. Some unconventional behaviour really is harmless, but often, if I ask myself if it would be okay if all parents/children did the thing, I can quickly judge if the act is inappropriate for a public setting. Sometimes I run through the process out-loud with Noor and other times I just let her know not here, not now and we discuss why later.
It is fun to run through "what if everyone did X" scenarios and I think the often comical nature of these imaginings helps Noor learn, in a funny, light way, about social conventions.
Brie
makes people uncomfortable.... I find it even harder to find the balance and
I have to work really hard to manage well the maverick or rebel within
me.....----
Something that works for us, in terms of guiding Noor's behavior in public places, is the old adage that something isn't acceptable for her if it wouldn't be acceptable for all the children in that location. While it may not be dangerous to pull a flower head off a bush, if everyone who visited the park pulled a flower head, the park wouldn't be as lovely. While it may not be dangerous for her to walk the ledge of a fountain in the mall, with me standing right there next to her, if there are a gaggle of other children around, whose parents may not be as engaged, it could be disastrous if all the other children walked the fountain wall. Same goes for sitting on store displays....what if everyone did it?
I use that idea to guide me, too, in guiding Noor. Some unconventional behaviour really is harmless, but often, if I ask myself if it would be okay if all parents/children did the thing, I can quickly judge if the act is inappropriate for a public setting. Sometimes I run through the process out-loud with Noor and other times I just let her know not here, not now and we discuss why later.
It is fun to run through "what if everyone did X" scenarios and I think the often comical nature of these imaginings helps Noor learn, in a funny, light way, about social conventions.
Brie