Table Manners
redknot20
Hi, I joined this group a few weeks ago and have really enjoyed reading the posts. They are helping me so much with unschooling. Thank you!
I have a question about something that has come up recently for us. A very good friend of my DS (12) has been criticizing both my son and my DD (7) for how they eat. We will all sit down for lunch and the boy (11) will say "Close your mouth when you chew, that's disgusting!!!" and/or to my daughter "My Mom says it is not lady-like to chew with your mouth open!". The tone of the meal will completely change from pleasant and light, to serious and really no fun.
To be honest, I never noticed whether or not my kids chewed with their mouths open, so I was taken by surprise when this first happened. Then as I thought about meals at our home, I realized that we don't have 'rules'. Then I realized why we don't have rules...
I want this boy to stop his comments, but also want him to feel comfortable eating with us. I am pretty sure he is not really disgusted, but repeating what he has heard at home (he used to burp very loudly at the table before this started). I suppose I could simply ask him to 'Please stop', which worked for the burping. Any other suggestions?
Nina
I have a question about something that has come up recently for us. A very good friend of my DS (12) has been criticizing both my son and my DD (7) for how they eat. We will all sit down for lunch and the boy (11) will say "Close your mouth when you chew, that's disgusting!!!" and/or to my daughter "My Mom says it is not lady-like to chew with your mouth open!". The tone of the meal will completely change from pleasant and light, to serious and really no fun.
To be honest, I never noticed whether or not my kids chewed with their mouths open, so I was taken by surprise when this first happened. Then as I thought about meals at our home, I realized that we don't have 'rules'. Then I realized why we don't have rules...
I want this boy to stop his comments, but also want him to feel comfortable eating with us. I am pretty sure he is not really disgusted, but repeating what he has heard at home (he used to burp very loudly at the table before this started). I suppose I could simply ask him to 'Please stop', which worked for the burping. Any other suggestions?
Nina
Dragonfly
Isn't he just mirroring what you did to him when you asked him to stop burping at the table? Your children enjoy no rules but he was given a rule.
Nuria
Nuria
Sandra Dodd
-=-
I want this boy to stop his comments, but also want him to feel comfortable eating with us. I am pretty sure he is not really disgusted, but repeating what he has heard at home (-=-
My personal suggestion is to ask your kids to eat with their mouths closed.
I'm sure he could be disgusted.
It bothers me to see other people's food, for them to bite their forks, and for them to hold their spoons in their fists. It really bothers me for people to "crunch"--to eat with their mouths open like dogs. REALLY bothers me.
There's no social, moral or educational advantage to unschoolers having bad manners. It's not arbitrary. There ARE real reasons to eat politely and courteously.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I want this boy to stop his comments, but also want him to feel comfortable eating with us. I am pretty sure he is not really disgusted, but repeating what he has heard at home (-=-
My personal suggestion is to ask your kids to eat with their mouths closed.
I'm sure he could be disgusted.
It bothers me to see other people's food, for them to bite their forks, and for them to hold their spoons in their fists. It really bothers me for people to "crunch"--to eat with their mouths open like dogs. REALLY bothers me.
There's no social, moral or educational advantage to unschoolers having bad manners. It's not arbitrary. There ARE real reasons to eat politely and courteously.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joanne.lopers
I am not sure if this suggestion is one that would work but it is a fun thing we do at our house. It sort of encourages proper manners, if the child to use the wants to use them and maybe it would just lighten things up a bit for the friend. We play, "That's not proper manners".
Totally for fun or sometimes in situations when someone is criticizing my kids manners. We use our manners, both proper and improper, and when we catch someone not having proper manners we all shout, "That's not proper manners!" It has made catching someone with bad manners a game and very funny because we all get totally outrageous and start putting our feet on the table, pretending to pick our noses etc. Maybe a variation of this game would change the mood without much fuss.
Joanne
Totally for fun or sometimes in situations when someone is criticizing my kids manners. We use our manners, both proper and improper, and when we catch someone not having proper manners we all shout, "That's not proper manners!" It has made catching someone with bad manners a game and very funny because we all get totally outrageous and start putting our feet on the table, pretending to pick our noses etc. Maybe a variation of this game would change the mood without much fuss.
Joanne
--- In [email protected], "redknot20" <redknot@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, I joined this group a few weeks ago and have really enjoyed reading the posts. They are helping me so much with unschooling. Thank you!
>
> I have a question about something that has come up recently for us. A very good friend of my DS (12) has been criticizing both my son and my DD (7) for how they eat. We will all sit down for lunch and the boy (11) will say "Close your mouth when you chew, that's disgusting!!!" and/or to my daughter "My Mom says it is not lady-like to chew with your mouth open!". The tone of the meal will completely change from pleasant and light, to serious and really no fun.
>
> To be honest, I never noticed whether or not my kids chewed with their mouths open, so I was taken by surprise when this first happened. Then as I thought about meals at our home, I realized that we don't have 'rules'. Then I realized why we don't have rules...
>
> I want this boy to stop his comments, but also want him to feel comfortable eating with us. I am pretty sure he is not really disgusted, but repeating what he has heard at home (he used to burp very loudly at the table before this started). I suppose I could simply ask him to 'Please stop', which worked for the burping. Any other suggestions?
>
> Nina
>
wtexans
===I suppose I could simply ask him to 'Please stop', which worked for the burping. Any other suggestions?===
Why is it okay for your kids to chew with their mouths open if it offends someone sharing a meal with them, yet it's not okay for that same person to burp because it offends you / your kids?
Why not ask *your kids* to "please stop"?
===I am pretty sure he is not really disgusted, but repeating what he has heard at home===
That's a disrespectful assumption. If he's *said* that he finds it disgusting, why are you choosing to believe that he's lying, rather than choosing to believe that it's offensive to him?
Different people have different tolerances for noises. A burp may not bother his ears, yet listening to someone chew open-mouthed could.
Several weeks ago, some of my son's younger cousins had dinner at our house. After they had finished eating and left the table, my son told me that both kids had been chewing with their mouths open and the sound caused him to feel sick to his stomach. I wish he had let me know right away so that I could have asked the other two kids to chew with their mouths closed, rather than him enduring the sound the whole time they ate because *he* didn't want to offend *them*.
===Then as I thought about meals at our home, I realized that we don't have 'rules'. Then I realized why we don't have rules...===
But you're having double standards. You're wanting your kids' friend to "please stop" when you ask him to, because his behavior offended you, but you're wanting to change *his* behavior when something your kids are doing offends him.
===I want this boy to stop his comments, but also want him to feel comfortable eating with us.===
Helping your kids be more aware when they're chewing with their mouths open would likely make him more comfortable eating with you. And it will help them when they want to eat with other people who are sensitive to the sound and/or sight of open-mouth chewing.
Glenda
Why is it okay for your kids to chew with their mouths open if it offends someone sharing a meal with them, yet it's not okay for that same person to burp because it offends you / your kids?
Why not ask *your kids* to "please stop"?
===I am pretty sure he is not really disgusted, but repeating what he has heard at home===
That's a disrespectful assumption. If he's *said* that he finds it disgusting, why are you choosing to believe that he's lying, rather than choosing to believe that it's offensive to him?
Different people have different tolerances for noises. A burp may not bother his ears, yet listening to someone chew open-mouthed could.
Several weeks ago, some of my son's younger cousins had dinner at our house. After they had finished eating and left the table, my son told me that both kids had been chewing with their mouths open and the sound caused him to feel sick to his stomach. I wish he had let me know right away so that I could have asked the other two kids to chew with their mouths closed, rather than him enduring the sound the whole time they ate because *he* didn't want to offend *them*.
===Then as I thought about meals at our home, I realized that we don't have 'rules'. Then I realized why we don't have rules...===
But you're having double standards. You're wanting your kids' friend to "please stop" when you ask him to, because his behavior offended you, but you're wanting to change *his* behavior when something your kids are doing offends him.
===I want this boy to stop his comments, but also want him to feel comfortable eating with us.===
Helping your kids be more aware when they're chewing with their mouths open would likely make him more comfortable eating with you. And it will help them when they want to eat with other people who are sensitive to the sound and/or sight of open-mouth chewing.
Glenda
Alex
> Different people have different tolerances for noises. A burp may not bother his ears, yet listening to someone chew open-mouthed could.I always felt it was really nasty and rude to belch loudly. Sometime it my 20s I started having some health issues that caused me to swallow a lot of air. So, now I burp loudly a lot at home, but I am still as repulsed by other people doing it. It's funny, but then I'm guessing plenty of people who pick their noses when they think nobody is looked would be grossed out or annoyed to see someone else pick their nose too.
I think it's an enormous service to a child to help them learn to stop doing things that turn people off. I really worry that my younger brothers-in-law will miss romantic relationship opportunities or other opportunities that are dependent on making a good impression just because they eat loudly and with their mouths open. I love these guys, but I really don't like sitting across from them at family dinners. I wouldn't date a guy who ate like that normally, and it's sad, because it really isn't that hard to learn to eat with your mouth closed.
Alex N.
Vicki Dennis
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 7:12 PM, redknot20 <redknot@...> wrote:
social skills which would include not displaying partially chewed food or
making loud noises while
>"My manners consultant says it is ungentlemanly to criticize your hosts"
>
> "My Mom says it is not lady-like to chew with your mouth open!".
>
> I want this boy to stop his comments, but also want him to feel comfortableI do think it appropriate for you to help your children learn appropriate
> eating with us.I am pretty sure he is not really disgusted, but repeating
> what he has heard at home (he used to burp very loudly at the table before
> this started). I suppose I could simply ask him to 'Please stop', which
> worked for the burping. Any other suggestions?
>
social skills which would include not displaying partially chewed food or
making loud noises while
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Nina
>
>
>
>
amylizkid1
My daughter, Emma (8), decided to stop having a good friend spend the night because she couldn't stand the sound of her friend eating with her mouth open. Shorter visits = less gross noise.
We have resolved the issue somewhat by not being to close to her when she eats, and I also have asked her, politely, to please chew with her mouth closed. I think if her parents aren't going to help her in this area, someone ought to.
We have resolved the issue somewhat by not being to close to her when she eats, and I also have asked her, politely, to please chew with her mouth closed. I think if her parents aren't going to help her in this area, someone ought to.
--- In [email protected], "redknot20" <redknot@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, I joined this group a few weeks ago and have really enjoyed reading the posts. They are helping me so much with unschooling. Thank you!
>
> I have a question about something that has come up recently for us. A very good friend of my DS (12) has been criticizing both my son and my DD (7) for how they eat. We will all sit down for lunch and the boy (11) will say "Close your mouth when you chew, that's disgusting!!!" and/or to my daughter "My Mom says it is not lady-like to chew with your mouth open!". The tone of the meal will completely change from pleasant and light, to serious and really no fun.
>
> To be honest, I never noticed whether or not my kids chewed with their mouths open, so I was taken by surprise when this first happened. Then as I thought about meals at our home, I realized that we don't have 'rules'. Then I realized why we don't have rules...
>
> I want this boy to stop his comments, but also want him to feel comfortable eating with us. I am pretty sure he is not really disgusted, but repeating what he has heard at home (he used to burp very loudly at the table before this started). I suppose I could simply ask him to 'Please stop', which worked for the burping. Any other suggestions?
>
> Nina
>
aldq75
I don't consider using common courtesies such as bathing, using table manners and holding the door for someone following rules. I see those things as life skills that everyone should know.
Important events often involve food...job interviews, meeting your future in-laws, getting to know people in both personal and professional settings, etc. I think it does children a disservice to not model courteous eating.
Andrea Q
Important events often involve food...job interviews, meeting your future in-laws, getting to know people in both personal and professional settings, etc. I think it does children a disservice to not model courteous eating.
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], "redknot20" <redknot@...> wrote:
Then as I thought about meals at our home, I realized that we don't have 'rules'. Then I realized why we don't have rules...
Sandra Dodd
-=I don't consider using common courtesies such as bathing, using table manners and holding the door for someone following rules. I see those things as life skills that everyone should know.-=-
Some families force a bath on schedule every night. Some just find ways to make baths fun. Some let the kids decide unless there's an event, a visit, or guests. By the time they're 14, 15, most teen are showering every day by choice, in my experience. Sometimes twice a day.
Holding the door for someone varies regionally. Some place, if a woman holds a door for a man, it causes embarrassment and discomfort, and that cancels out courtesy. Holly and I were in another state lately where, apparently, the tradition is different. Holly was carrying a box, and I was too. I passed through the door, walked a way, and waited as a grown man, two teenaged boys and a couple of young women walked by smiling at me, and then Holly (who had been holding the door for all of them, with her box) came along shaking her head. In Albuquerque, people hold the door for people carrying boxes or babies or whatever, and all non-load-bearing able-bodied people hand the door-holding off to one another (and sometimes someone will hold a door for a group or series of people).
Table manners is a HUGE range above and beyond all that. There are rules, and traditions, and levels of formality, and ways to be in different countries. Americans need to be careful in some other places. There are things we do routinely that are wrong (potentially disgusting) elsewhere. But there are things that are rude anywhere, and not learning to eat with one's mouth closed, and not learning how to hold utensils (whichever utensils are used, and however they are politely used in that place) are not cool past young childhood.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Some families force a bath on schedule every night. Some just find ways to make baths fun. Some let the kids decide unless there's an event, a visit, or guests. By the time they're 14, 15, most teen are showering every day by choice, in my experience. Sometimes twice a day.
Holding the door for someone varies regionally. Some place, if a woman holds a door for a man, it causes embarrassment and discomfort, and that cancels out courtesy. Holly and I were in another state lately where, apparently, the tradition is different. Holly was carrying a box, and I was too. I passed through the door, walked a way, and waited as a grown man, two teenaged boys and a couple of young women walked by smiling at me, and then Holly (who had been holding the door for all of them, with her box) came along shaking her head. In Albuquerque, people hold the door for people carrying boxes or babies or whatever, and all non-load-bearing able-bodied people hand the door-holding off to one another (and sometimes someone will hold a door for a group or series of people).
Table manners is a HUGE range above and beyond all that. There are rules, and traditions, and levels of formality, and ways to be in different countries. Americans need to be careful in some other places. There are things we do routinely that are wrong (potentially disgusting) elsewhere. But there are things that are rude anywhere, and not learning to eat with one's mouth closed, and not learning how to hold utensils (whichever utensils are used, and however they are politely used in that place) are not cool past young childhood.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
renee_cabatic
When Xander and XuMei were 7 they did a 4H "try-it" on food preperation and proper table setting. It was fun to learn about.
http://didyouknow.org/tablesettings/
Also we would sometimes pretend we were having tea with the Queen of England. We would be silly and use accents and laugh while pointing out proper manners.
Renee
http://didyouknow.org/tablesettings/
Also we would sometimes pretend we were having tea with the Queen of England. We would be silly and use accents and laugh while pointing out proper manners.
Renee
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
It was interesting that this post came yesterday as we went to MD's Cub Scouts
belt loop meeting on good manners
and video games.
When the facilitator asked the kids ( all schooled kids but mine) if they
thought that they were silly rules
parents insisted on they all but one disagreed with her. I guess kids did not
mind learning good manners.
MD tries really hard to be polite and nice, especially in the last couple
months.
It maybe age and maturity. He will be 9 in a little over 2 months and lately he
has been so wonderful opening doors and helping out.
Sure we sometimes burp and use curse words at home.
But I have always pointed out that some words and actions have a place and time
and that they can also potentially
offend others and should not be done in public or should be private ( like
picking your nose or scratching yourself).
I also point out that somethings are OK at home and not in front of other
families or grandparents like using curse words.
(Neither or my children curse at each other or curse parents.)
I tell them why and what the consequences are.
Yesterday I told MD in private that I knew they were going to talk about video
games ratings and how they would say that games rated Teen or Mature would
be not OK for kids his age.
He did not say he played Halo Reach ( rated Mature) when they talked about it.
He just looked and me and smiled knowingly.
I always tell him families have different rules.
Monday we went to do our annual testing at this other homeschool mom's home.
After the test while she was printing it out MD and her younger son were playing
with toy shotguns. Then she asked if they would not point it at each other
because that was the rule at her house( not pointing at other people) and that
they could pretend they were hunting. MD had no problem with it even wanting to
play shooting at the other kid and the kid really loved it too.
She did explain that it was a rule in her house (they are very school at home
and christian homeschoolers) because they have real guns.
Since we have always respected other peoples rule while in their home my son had
no problem with it.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
belt loop meeting on good manners
and video games.
When the facilitator asked the kids ( all schooled kids but mine) if they
thought that they were silly rules
parents insisted on they all but one disagreed with her. I guess kids did not
mind learning good manners.
MD tries really hard to be polite and nice, especially in the last couple
months.
It maybe age and maturity. He will be 9 in a little over 2 months and lately he
has been so wonderful opening doors and helping out.
Sure we sometimes burp and use curse words at home.
But I have always pointed out that some words and actions have a place and time
and that they can also potentially
offend others and should not be done in public or should be private ( like
picking your nose or scratching yourself).
I also point out that somethings are OK at home and not in front of other
families or grandparents like using curse words.
(Neither or my children curse at each other or curse parents.)
I tell them why and what the consequences are.
Yesterday I told MD in private that I knew they were going to talk about video
games ratings and how they would say that games rated Teen or Mature would
be not OK for kids his age.
He did not say he played Halo Reach ( rated Mature) when they talked about it.
He just looked and me and smiled knowingly.
I always tell him families have different rules.
Monday we went to do our annual testing at this other homeschool mom's home.
After the test while she was printing it out MD and her younger son were playing
with toy shotguns. Then she asked if they would not point it at each other
because that was the rule at her house( not pointing at other people) and that
they could pretend they were hunting. MD had no problem with it even wanting to
play shooting at the other kid and the kid really loved it too.
She did explain that it was a rule in her house (they are very school at home
and christian homeschoolers) because they have real guns.
Since we have always respected other peoples rule while in their home my son had
no problem with it.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
*********On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 8:32 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <
polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>Chris
>
> After the test while she was printing it out MD and her younger son were
> playing
>
> with toy shotguns. Then she asked if they would not point it at each other
>
> because that was the rule at her house( not pointing at other people) and
> that
> they could pretend they were hunting. MD had no problem with it even
> wanting to
> play shooting at the other kid and the kid really loved it too.
>
> She did explain that it was a rule in her house (they are very school at
> home
> and christian homeschoolers) because they have real guns.
> Since we have always respected other peoples rule while in their home my
> son had
> no problem with it.
>
>
> Alex Polikowsky**********
>
> <http://polykow.blogspot.com/>
> I wanted to point out that teaching children to NEVER point any sort of gun
> (fake or real) at a person is a common sense rule. Carelessly pointing
> something that looks like a gun at a person is illegal in many places and
> can lead to tragic accidents.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- I wanted to point out that teaching children to NEVER point any sort of gun
(fake or real) at a person is a common sense rule. Carelessly pointing
something that looks like a gun at a person is illegal in many places and
can lead to tragic accidents.
-=-Chris-=-
Can you give an example of it being illegal somewhere?
If young children are playing "bang" with water pistols or something, they're playing. That's not going to lead to any tragic accident.
If someone pulls a black, brown or silver toy gun on a policeman. that could be a problem.
Between those two is a huge range of things neither illegal nor tragic.
At our house when the kids were little, the policy was not to point a gun at someone who wasn't part of the game. "Only if he's playing," and the kids were pretty good about that.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/guns
Lots of photos of happy kids with toy guns there.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(fake or real) at a person is a common sense rule. Carelessly pointing
something that looks like a gun at a person is illegal in many places and
can lead to tragic accidents.
-=-Chris-=-
Can you give an example of it being illegal somewhere?
If young children are playing "bang" with water pistols or something, they're playing. That's not going to lead to any tragic accident.
If someone pulls a black, brown or silver toy gun on a policeman. that could be a problem.
Between those two is a huge range of things neither illegal nor tragic.
At our house when the kids were little, the policy was not to point a gun at someone who wasn't part of the game. "Only if he's playing," and the kids were pretty good about that.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/guns
Lots of photos of happy kids with toy guns there.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Well we love playing with nerf guns and shooting at each other. The only
thing that we do not do is shoot at the head to avoid eye injury.
One thing I pointed out to MD was that the shotguns they had were plastic but they did look like
real guns and that this way it makes it almost impossible for someone to tell if they are a toy or the real thing
and that is a problem as there has been kids shot by others and even police because of that.
When you make a rule like:
MD is 8 and he does not want to hurt anyone or get hurt.
It makes more sense that a toy guns that looks real may cause someone to think they are indeed real .
If he wanted to play with a toy gun that looked real I would find a safe way for him to play.
He could play in our backyard safely with friends as it is private and out in a farm.
I would be there with them. I would explain why that woud not be a good idea in town or other places.
I would ask him to use a nerf gun in those instances, which can be more fun as the do actually shoot foam bullets.
But I do not have a rule like that in my home.
A nerf gun does not in any way look like a real gun.
IF the rule is to "NEVER point any sort of gun ( fake or real)" That would include nerf guns.
I believe most boys would go behing the parents back and do it anyway because they know nerf guns are not
dangerous or real and do not look real.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
thing that we do not do is shoot at the head to avoid eye injury.
One thing I pointed out to MD was that the shotguns they had were plastic but they did look like
real guns and that this way it makes it almost impossible for someone to tell if they are a toy or the real thing
and that is a problem as there has been kids shot by others and even police because of that.
When you make a rule like:
> I wanted to point out that teaching children to NEVER point any sort of gunIt gives kids very few options when they want to play shooting each other.
> (fake or real) at a person is a common sense rule. Carelessly pointing
> something that looks like a gun at a person is illegal in many places and
> can lead to tragic accidents.
MD is 8 and he does not want to hurt anyone or get hurt.
It makes more sense that a toy guns that looks real may cause someone to think they are indeed real .
If he wanted to play with a toy gun that looked real I would find a safe way for him to play.
He could play in our backyard safely with friends as it is private and out in a farm.
I would be there with them. I would explain why that woud not be a good idea in town or other places.
I would ask him to use a nerf gun in those instances, which can be more fun as the do actually shoot foam bullets.
But I do not have a rule like that in my home.
A nerf gun does not in any way look like a real gun.
IF the rule is to "NEVER point any sort of gun ( fake or real)" That would include nerf guns.
I believe most boys would go behing the parents back and do it anyway because they know nerf guns are not
dangerous or real and do not look real.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 10:22 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
looked like a gun was illegal and so not to include any such thing in a
costume.
been a gun. These things were not always black, brown or silver; remember
that in low light color is nearly impossible to discern.
In the bright light of day in a suburban yard, you're most likely very
correct in saying that children playing with brightly colored plastic guns
will not lead to tragedy, but it is good practice that people learn not to
point weapon like objects at someone unless they are intent on using a
weapon.
The Baltimore area has several police shootings every year that is because
an officer felt threatened by something that the person did or had. My
neighbor's daughter was killed when the police raided her home on a "tip"
that lead to no arrests. And this wasn't a "bad" neighborhood either, it is
just a somewhat urban area that is somewhat close to areas that are higher
crime (aka bad neighborhoods).
I grew up in an area that had a lot of hunters and many of my friends had
firearms and knives for hunting by the time they were 11 or 12. We did not
have guns in our home, my mother did not like them and we did not hunt. But
we learned general safety practices about guns and weapons just by being
around our friends. I seem to remember police coming to school and talking
about gun/weapon safety.
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>attended a sci-fi convention there and we were warned that anything that
>
> -=- I wanted to point out that teaching children to NEVER point any sort of
> gun
>
> (fake or real) at a person is a common sense rule. Carelessly pointing
> something that looks like a gun at a person is illegal in many places and
> can lead to tragic accidents.
>
> -=-Chris-=-
>
> ******Can you give an example of it being illegal somewhere?***
>
> Yes, I am not sure if it is the state of Virginia or Crystal City, VA. I
looked like a gun was illegal and so not to include any such thing in a
costume.
> ********If young children are playing "bang" with water pistols orbeen killed by police when they had something in their hand that MIGHT have
> something, they're playing. That's not going to lead to any tragic accident.
>
> If someone pulls a black, brown or silver toy gun on a policeman. that
> could be a problem.
>
> Between those two is a huge range of things neither illegal nor tragic.
>
> At our house when the kids were little, the policy was not to point a gun
> at someone who wasn't part of the game. "Only if he's playing," and the kids
> were pretty good about that.******
>
> Over here in the Baltimore Metro/DC metro area people (young and old) have
been a gun. These things were not always black, brown or silver; remember
that in low light color is nearly impossible to discern.
In the bright light of day in a suburban yard, you're most likely very
correct in saying that children playing with brightly colored plastic guns
will not lead to tragedy, but it is good practice that people learn not to
point weapon like objects at someone unless they are intent on using a
weapon.
The Baltimore area has several police shootings every year that is because
an officer felt threatened by something that the person did or had. My
neighbor's daughter was killed when the police raided her home on a "tip"
that lead to no arrests. And this wasn't a "bad" neighborhood either, it is
just a somewhat urban area that is somewhat close to areas that are higher
crime (aka bad neighborhoods).
I grew up in an area that had a lot of hunters and many of my friends had
firearms and knives for hunting by the time they were 11 or 12. We did not
have guns in our home, my mother did not like them and we did not hunt. But
we learned general safety practices about guns and weapons just by being
around our friends. I seem to remember police coming to school and talking
about gun/weapon safety.
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 20, 2011, at 11:42 PM, chris ester wrote:
been to in Boston is no real weapons (obviously) and no fake weapons
that *look real* can be carried outside the convention. They need to
be in a bag to get them in and out of the convention. The police do
take that seriously and have inconvenienced people with a trip to the
police station.
http://www.animeboston.com/about/weapons/
Fake weapons are okay but they should be obviously fake. But that's
not the same as "Carelessly pointing something that looks like a gun
at a person is illegal." It's not illegal but you can be shot! Sounds
goofy written out like that but it's common sense.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Yes, I am not sure if it is the state of Virginia or Crystal City,Illegal or convention policy? The weapons policy at convention I've
> VA. I
> attended a sci-fi convention there and we were warned that anything
> that
> looked like a gun was illegal and so not to include any such thing
> in a
> costume.
been to in Boston is no real weapons (obviously) and no fake weapons
that *look real* can be carried outside the convention. They need to
be in a bag to get them in and out of the convention. The police do
take that seriously and have inconvenienced people with a trip to the
police station.
http://www.animeboston.com/about/weapons/
Fake weapons are okay but they should be obviously fake. But that's
not the same as "Carelessly pointing something that looks like a gun
at a person is illegal." It's not illegal but you can be shot! Sounds
goofy written out like that but it's common sense.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
Bob
>My wife tells me toy guns were banned in Belfast at one stage during "The Troubles" (1969-1998), after a British soldier shot and killed a boy pointing a stick at him that he thought was a gun, that was in 1972, to at least 1975 when she left Belfast for Australia.
>
> On Apr 20, 2011, at 11:42 PM, chris ester wrote:
>
> > Yes, I am not sure if it is the state of Virginia or Crystal City,
> > VA. I
> > attended a sci-fi convention there and we were warned that anything
> > that
> > looked like a gun was illegal and so not to include any such thing
> > in a
> > costume.
>
> Illegal or convention policy? The weapons policy at convention I've
> been to in Boston is no real weapons (obviously) and no fake weapons
> that *look real* can be carried outside the convention. They need to
> be in a bag to get them in and out of the convention. The police do
> take that seriously and have inconvenienced people with a trip to the
> police station.
>
> http://www.animeboston.com/about/weapons/
>
> Fake weapons are okay but they should be obviously fake. But that's
> not the same as "Carelessly pointing something that looks like a gun
> at a person is illegal." It's not illegal but you can be shot! Sounds
> goofy written out like that but it's common sense.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob
plaidpanties666
chris ester <chris.homeschool@...> wrote:
---Meredith
>> > I wanted to point out that teaching children to NEVER point any sort of gunIt isn't common sense to lump play and reality together, though. We're going to a group campout in a couple weeks where kids will be running around with nerf guns shooting at each other. They're more likely to be injured falling down in the woods than with the foam darts!
> > (fake or real) at a person is a common sense rule.
>Carelessly pointingThere are plenty of dangerous things in the world that should not be handled carelessly. Carelessly "pointing" a car gets people hurt and killed pretty regularly! A "common sense rule" might be "don't be careless" but it doesn't do much good to *just* memorize that sort of rule and hope for the best. That's the real danger of rules, they aren't substitutes for real learning.
> > something that looks like a gun
---Meredith
Ed Wendell
Our son is on an Airsoft team and the "guns" always have an orange tip when purchased. They put black electrical tape over it for their games (so they can hide better) but remove it for transporting the guns. When they play on a Military Base the tips have to be orange at all times ;) I remember Zac's toy guns having an orange tip when he was little. I don't know about other countries but here in the USA some orange tape to put on the end would signal to police that the guns are toys.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cookiesforthree
My son likes to spray paint his toy guns. All on his own he said that he would like to leave the tips orange. We used to have a neighbor that is a police officer and he explained to us the importance of allowing toy guns to look like toy guns. Especially from an officers point of view. If he were faced with a gun that looks like a gun, even though it's really a toy, how is he supposed to know. His life is at stake.
I think that's a really great idea to hide the orange tips with electrical tape when actually playing with them in an airsoft game, though. Those bright tips really do give your spot away. But any other time, remove the tape.
Jen
I think that's a really great idea to hide the orange tips with electrical tape when actually playing with them in an airsoft game, though. Those bright tips really do give your spot away. But any other time, remove the tape.
Jen