Patrick

Hey everyone, thanks for all of the feedback on schooling. It really seems that fulltime homeschooling/unschooling is the answer for me but I will continue to research.
That said- can anyone link me to some good research demonstrating how good homeschoolers/unschoolers do? This is not for me at all just for 'concerned' family members. It seems that HSers do great in college, in jobs, in life in general...Is there any good 'research' online to back this up?

What I would really love but we a good DVD to watch with my wife. She always gets alot out of documentaries. Is there any good ones about HSing/USing?

How bout any good information (dvd would be great) on why compulsory schooling is bad? I haven't really come up with any yet though someone just recommended Waiting For Superman...so maybe that is good...but Id really like a harsh critique of the foundation/maintenance/results of compulsory schooling...and it doesn't have to be an academic critique at all (but fine if it is). Maybe just a look at competition, bullying, sexism, racism and devaluization of life that is entrenched in alot of our school systems structure.

Any good resources on any of this anyone?

Thank you all tons!!!

Patrick

Sandra Dodd

-=-How bout any good information (dvd would be great) on why compulsory schooling is bad? -=-

I don't mind if someone comes up with something for you, but it's not really the topic of this discussion list. :-)

If you google "the evils of school" you can probably find so many stories you would feel suicidal, but what will your kids be doing while you're doing that? How will you be toward them after you get all depressed?

I can't help but want to encourage parents of young children to focus more energy toward joy and peace.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sheeboo2

Patrick,

I've sent The Fraiser Report on Home Education to quite a few people. The author is/was associated in some ways, at some time, with HSLDA, which is a big yuck in my book, but the study is VERY positive (click on the "free download" toward the bottom of the page):
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research-news/display.aspx?id=13089

Some inspiring short videos that talk about creativity and how schools kill it, are Sir. Ken Robinson's TED talks:
"Schools Kill Creativity": http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

'Bring on the Learning Revolution"
http://www.ted.com/talks/sir_ken_robinson_bring_on_the_revolution.html

Daniel Pink's talk "On the Surprising Science of Motivation" may also be worth watching together:
http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html

If you want a harsh critique of schooling, from the point of view that schools are closer to prisons than places of learning, watch "War on Kids": http://www.thewaronkids.com/

I know I found the whole thing online....ah, here it is: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5138702/the_war_on_kids/

This is a powerful panel discussion with the director, from the Alternative Education Resource Organization (great website for more info):
http://aeroeducation.org/2010/12/28/the-war-on-kids-video/

Dr. Peter Gray's "Freedom to Learn" blog at Psychology Today is a wonderful "mainstream" voice in favor of unschooling. I've read and enjoyed most of his posts. The ones on math and reading might be especially helpful:

Kids Learn Math Easily When they Control Their Own Learning: http://tinyurl.com/yyv3ysu

"Children Teach Themselves to Read"
http://tinyurl.com/4ygkwav

"Seven Sins of Our System of Forced Education":
http://tinyurl.com/yj8rbus

There is a film in the works called, "Unschooling: The Movie" which features Sandra Dodd. It isn't finished, as far as I can tell, but you can watch clips here:
http://unschoolingmovie.info/

Brie

Patrick

-=-If you google "the evils of school" you can probably find so many stories you would feel suicidal, but what will your kids be doing while you're doing that? How will you be toward them after you get all depressed?-=-

lol no luck with the evils of school google search :( But you are right and I definitely do not want to be negative and get myself or my kids depressed. Its really information I'd like to share with my parents. They cherish the school system dearly so I am just trying to give them an idea of some of the realities of the school system that aren't glorious as they perceive them.

But more importantly I want to share with them information on the benefits of homeschooling/unschooling.
I apologize because that is actually why I started this thread.

***I really want all the good data/media I can on unschooling/homeschooling***

Can anyone help?

Thanks

Patrick



--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-How bout any good information (dvd would be great) on why compulsory schooling is bad? -=-
>
> I don't mind if someone comes up with something for you, but it's not really the topic of this discussion list. :-)
>
> If you google "the evils of school" you can probably find so many stories you would feel suicidal, but what will your kids be doing while you're doing that? How will you be toward them after you get all depressed?
>
> I can't help but want to encourage parents of young children to focus more energy toward joy and peace.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

sheeboo2

Oh, and a great way to gain some insight into unschoolers' lives is by reading blogs. Enjoy Life Unschooling has a great long list of 'em that even includes grown unschoolers:
http://enjoylifeunschooling.com/resources/

Brie

Robin Bentley

>
> ***I really want all the good data/media I can on unschooling/
> homeschooling***
>
> Can anyone help?
>
Brie just gave you a boatload!

> Its really information I'd like to share with my parents. They
> cherish the school system dearly so I am just trying to give them an
> idea of some of the realities of the school system that aren't
> glorious as they perceive them.

Are they teachers or bound to the system somehow? They might not
believe what you have to say about the evils of school. Did you go to
school? If you did, then you're a product of schooling - perhaps they
see you as the good example.

I agree with Sandra. Focus on what positive things can come from
homeschooling/unschooling, not the negative aspects of school. Find
reasons *to* unschool, not reasons *not to* do school.

Deb Lewis asked this:

> But, why is what your parents think more important than what you
> think about your own kids? I understand wanting/needing to keep
> peace with a spouse, but parents? Do you live with them? Can you
> move away?

It's a good question to think about (and answer here, if it will
help shed light on what you are trying to accomplish).

Robin B.

Patrick

Brie- the movie was good thank you for the link! I didnt think it was too harsh at all really. Can't wait to check out the other links later-thank you!


-=-But, why is what your parents think more important than what you
think about your own kids? I understand wanting/needing to keep
peace with a spouse, but parents? Do you live with them? Can you
move away?-=-

What my parents think isnt more important but it is important. i would like to try help them understand rather than it be something separates us. If it does separate us then it does, i know where I stand, but I would rather have them be a part of everything. My family and I (including my parents and siblings) have been through an awful lot of life altering experiences together(including 3 open heart surgeries for me, the last one being a year and a half ago- and I am only 34) so I atleast want them to understand where I am coming from. So not having some sort of peace with my parents is not a good long term option for me- for as with my kids- i value their lives highly. Right now we live in Mn and they live in PA :) so that is helpful. I think its just going to take some time.

Patrick


--- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > ***I really want all the good data/media I can on unschooling/
> > homeschooling***
> >
> > Can anyone help?
> >
> Brie just gave you a boatload!
>
> > Its really information I'd like to share with my parents. They
> > cherish the school system dearly so I am just trying to give them an
> > idea of some of the realities of the school system that aren't
> > glorious as they perceive them.
>
> Are they teachers or bound to the system somehow? They might not
> believe what you have to say about the evils of school. Did you go to
> school? If you did, then you're a product of schooling - perhaps they
> see you as the good example.
>
> I agree with Sandra. Focus on what positive things can come from
> homeschooling/unschooling, not the negative aspects of school. Find
> reasons *to* unschool, not reasons *not to* do school.
>
> Deb Lewis asked this:
>
> > But, why is what your parents think more important than what you
> > think about your own kids? I understand wanting/needing to keep
> > peace with a spouse, but parents? Do you live with them? Can you
> > move away?
>
> It's a good question to think about (and answer here, if it will
> help shed light on what you are trying to accomplish).
>
> Robin B.
>

Joy

I hope this note I wrote may help you to ease your mind. I was like you looking for evidence...

Here is the note

One of the reasons that got me into homeschooling was that I wanted to homeschool my children to harvard. I thought homeschooling would be more effective for us to achieve that goal.

I never thought homeschooling would lead to such joyful living, real and pure learning and happiness. What a big surprise!

The happiness, the joy, the freedom, the love, the connection, the excitement, the anticipation, the relationship, the healing, the moments and moments of fun experience and memory......so precious. I would never want to sacrifice these for academic "success". And they may not be mutually exclusive. I have the confidence that the children will be able to achieve that with passion and still have tons of fun.

Funny how one thing leads to another.

Joy

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 15, 2011, at 11:55 AM, "Patrick" <pmurphy06@...> wrote:

> Hey everyone, thanks for all of the feedback on schooling. It really seems that fulltime homeschooling/unschooling is the answer for me but I will continue to research.
> That said- can anyone link me to some good research demonstrating how good homeschoolers/unschoolers do? This is not for me at all just for 'concerned' family members. It seems that HSers do great in college, in jobs, in life in general...Is there any good 'research' online to back this up?
>
> What I would really love but we a good DVD to watch with my wife. She always gets alot out of documentaries. Is there any good ones about HSing/USing?
>
> How bout any good information (dvd would be great) on why compulsory schooling is bad? I haven't really come up with any yet though someone just recommended Waiting For Superman...so maybe that is good...but Id really like a harsh critique of the foundation/maintenance/results of compulsory schooling...and it doesn't have to be an academic critique at all (but fine if it is). Maybe just a look at competition, bullying, sexism, racism and devaluization of life that is entrenched in alot of our school systems structure.
>
> Any good resources on any of this anyone?
>
> Thank you all tons!!!
>
> Patrick
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb Lewis

***What my parents think isnt more important but it is important. i would like to try help them understand rather than it be something separates us. ***

Your first post seemed more urgent. Maybe that noise was just in my head.<g>

I asked because I've seen a lot of people (women mostly) who are still, at their grown up age, acting like their parent's child, wanting or needed parental approval. That's not healthy.

I didn't try to sell unschooling to family members. I said "homeschooling." Maybe that would make a difference with your mom and dad. They can probably remember homeschoolers winning spelling bees, etc. Maybe that won't be so scary.

Bombarding them with a bunch of anti school stuff might make you seem crazy. They might worry more. I think unschoolers can get used to talking with other unschoolers on email lists and forums and can forget how really crazy the idea sounds to people who aren't living this way.

Deb Lewis







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I didn't try to sell unschooling to family members. I said "homeschooling." Maybe that would make a difference with your mom and dad. They can probably remember homeschoolers winning spelling bees, etc. Maybe that won't be so scary. -=-

Yes.
And I always told people "We're going to do this for now," and not "We're doing this FOREVER!!!! HE will NEVER see the inside of a school!"

We said "If it stops working, we'll put him in school," and "if he decides he would rather go to school, he can."

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Patrick

I am very new to doing this so I am sure the road will be a bit bumpy at the beginning. You all give me alot of positive feedback and the best thing is that I know Im not alone!!! Thank you.

Now, is anyone looking forward to or has already seen this "Road to Nowhere"- they are doing a showing out here next week but I doubt we will be able to make it :(

Is it just me or does this look like it could be a groundbreaking documentary...Has anyone been able to view it online?


Patrick

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-I didn't try to sell unschooling to family members. I said "homeschooling." Maybe that would make a difference with your mom and dad. They can probably remember homeschoolers winning spelling bees, etc. Maybe that won't be so scary. -=-
>
> Yes.
> And I always told people "We're going to do this for now," and not "We're doing this FOREVER!!!! HE will NEVER see the inside of a school!"
>
> We said "If it stops working, we'll put him in school," and "if he decides he would rather go to school, he can."
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

plaidpanties666

"Patrick" <pmurphy06@...> wrote:
>So not having some sort of peace with my parents is not a good long term option for me- for as with my kids- i value their lives highly. Right now we live in Mn and they live in PA :) so that is helpful.
****************

It's helpful to keep in mind that one of the big things grandparents want is a sense of connection with their grandchildren. When kids aren't in school, that can feel awkward - what the heck do you say to a child other than "what are you doing in school?" Especially if you only see him twice a year? It can leave extended family members stymied. So it helps a whoooole lot to feed them useful information and conversation starters in the form of something grandparents usually like anyway - pictures and stories of their grandkids. Keeping a blog or sending regular notes (via facebook or plain old snail mail) goes a long way in that regard. And! they get to see their beloved grandchildren happy and adventurous, which can help to reassure them on that score.

Unschooling can come across as some kind of weird cult if you try to explain it from a theoretical side first. Start with happy kids living rich, full lives and school starts to seem less of an issue.

The only site I sent my parents when I was getting into unschooling was actually a homeschooling site - A to Zs Home's Cool.
http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/
Its a huuuuuge site and that alone brought a big sigh of relief from my family. Like most people, they didn't realize how much is available for homeschoolers these days in terms of resources.

---Meredith

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], "Patrick" <pmurphy06@...> wrote:
>
> -=-If you google "the evils of school" you can probably find so many stories you would feel suicidal, but what will your kids be doing while you're doing that? How will you be toward them after you get all depressed?-=-
>
> lol no luck with the evils of school google search :( But you are right and I definitely do not want to be negative and get myself or my kids depressed. Its really information I'd like to share with my parents. They cherish the school system dearly so I am just trying to give them an idea of some of the realities of the school system that aren't glorious as they perceive them.
>
>



Clark Aldrich's book "Unschooling Rules" might be just the thing for that.

Bob

mamabearvictoria

Deb Lewis wrote:
"I didn't try to sell unschooling to family members."

We haven't told my parents we are unschooling (though it is just our family's business :-).
Your post further confirms that I am moving toward being more comfortable with my decisions about my life as an adult without worrying about what others think.

Joy wrote:
"I never thought homeschooling would lead to such joyful living, real and pure learning and happiness. What a big surprise!

The happiness, the joy, the freedom, the love, the connection, the excitement, the anticipation, the relationship, the healing, the moments and moments of fun experience and memory......so precious. I would never want to sacrifice these for academic "success". And they may not be mutually exclusive. I have the confidence that the children will be able to achieve that with passion and still have tons of fun.

Funny how one thing leads to another."

That is how I feel now and am excited to experience more GROWTH, joy, and peace in our continued journey.

I love the support on this group!

Victoria

Patrick

Thank you all for the volumes of information and input. Im going to pick up Dumbing Us Down today. I wish they had John Holt books at this B&N but they don't. John Holt seems to be amazing!!!I (Gatto seems to be too no doubt)
I am pretty new to all of this stuff so as of like 2 weeks ago I had never even heard of John Holt, John Gatto, or our friend here Sandra Dodd. But I thank all of you so much- these appear to be new 'mentors' of myne who immediately compliment and complete many of my thoughts and beliefs. I have been a social activist most of my life (I have been fighting for the truth since my mid teens and am 34 now) and have learned alot about keeping my children out of school and learning/living naturally through socially conscious community groups and the likes of John Africa and the MOVE organization. I can't wait to get my hands on John Holts work and I know it is worth buying because I am going to want to share it.

Patrick
--- In [email protected], "mamabearvictoria" <coloradodays@...> wrote:
>
> Deb Lewis wrote:
> "I didn't try to sell unschooling to family members."
>
> We haven't told my parents we are unschooling (though it is just our family's business :-).
> Your post further confirms that I am moving toward being more comfortable with my decisions about my life as an adult without worrying about what others think.
>
> Joy wrote:
> "I never thought homeschooling would lead to such joyful living, real and pure learning and happiness. What a big surprise!
>
> The happiness, the joy, the freedom, the love, the connection, the excitement, the anticipation, the relationship, the healing, the moments and moments of fun experience and memory......so precious. I would never want to sacrifice these for academic "success". And they may not be mutually exclusive. I have the confidence that the children will be able to achieve that with passion and still have tons of fun.
>
> Funny how one thing leads to another."
>
> That is how I feel now and am excited to experience more GROWTH, joy, and peace in our continued journey.
>
> I love the support on this group!
>
> Victoria
>

Sandra Dodd

-=- I can't wait to get my hands on John Holts work and I know it is worth buying because I am going to want to share it.-=-

I love John Holt's stuff for sure, but some of it is fifty years old. I don't think it's worth reading all of it. About Holt or anything, remember this: Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.

You can read enough John Holt online to fortify you until you decide what book to read. Deb Lewis has written on a couple of his books:

http://sandradodd.com/holt/teachyourown
Here's an excerpt:
http://sandradodd.com/holt/teachyourownseeing

http://sandradodd.com/holt/alifeworthliving

There are links to interviews:
http://SandraDodd.com/johnholt

But he wasn't a parent. He lay groundwork for families, but didn't have a family.

If you focus on people who wrote about school, you end up focused on school.

Focus on your children, and on learning.

Sandra

Lydia

I just found this DVD in my local libraries data base. I've requested it but obviously haven't viewed it yet.




Homeschool dropouts [DVD videorecording] / Western Conservatory of Arts and Sciences

Here is the description: "The first generation of homeschooling movement is almost three decades old. It has been a stunning success. Even the most critical skeptics admit this. But, they ask, what about the second generation? Will the homeschool graduates continue what their teachers demonstrated? Will the second generation build on the legacy of independent home education, or abandon what their parents so bravely began? "

Lydia

Pam Sorooshian

On 4/19/2011 10:56 AM, Lydia wrote:
> Homeschool dropouts [DVD videorecording] / Western Conservatory of
> Arts and Sciences

There is a trailer -- it is all about how the Christian-Homeschooled
kids are abandoning homeschooling in droves. Says that 80 percent of
Christian-Homeschooled kids do not homeschool their own kids. It is very
very negative - all about how horrible the world is and how these
Christian-Homeschooled kids were given this amazing gift by their
parents and now they are so NOT living up to their responsibility to
carry on the "battle."

http://www.benbotkin.com/2009/11/homeschool-dropouts-the-score/


-pam

Sandra Dodd

-=-There is a trailer -- it is all about how the Christian-Homeschooled
kids are abandoning homeschooling in droves. Says that 80 percent of
Christian-Homeschooled kids do not homeschool their own kids.-=-

He said 80 percent were leaving the church. Even worse.
It is all about the Christian homeschooling movement and not about homeschooling in general. Certainly not about unschooling.

-=-In the style and texture department, we were looking for a sound that could effectively represent the “serious” and almost “crisis” flavor of the film. The documentary was shot in dry, barren locations in Texas and New Mexico, so the music had to match that empty, wasteland feel. -=-

I liked reading the composer's notes on the page with that preview.
http://www.benbotkin.com/2009/11/homeschool-dropouts-the-score/

One of the guys speaks in military terms, of holding the ground they had gained.

The younger guy was a good speaker.

It's interesting that it was presented as a group thing, being abandoned. As though it wasn't for the benefit of individuals at all, but as a political or social movement.

For me and my children, that was done for the moment, for each child, as each day unfolded. If they do or don't unschool any children they have, it doesn't negate what we did one bit. My children's lives are not the same as they would have been had they gone to school, and that will likely affect their children and grandchildren no matter what role the school options of the future might play in their lives.

We don't know right now how schools will be later on, but the range of options will continue to expand, I'm sure.

Sandra

chris ester

Actually, of all of our friends the only one who has a strongly negative
opinion of our homeschooling (in concept mostly) is the one person that we
know who was homeschooled for any of his pre-college education. AND he was
homeschooled for religious reasons by a very fundamentally Christian mom and
dad. The only people that he and his brother associated with for those
three years were kids at church. His parents believed that they were
protecting their children from ungodliness. I also gather that they used
very school-at-home methods. He is now agnostic at most as far as a
description of his belief in any higher power goes.

Also, when I watched the trailer, the man I saw said that 80% of Christian
youth were leaving the faith, not just homeschooling Christian youth. Most
of the least religious people that I know were raised in very strict
religious households that tended to be what I would call repressive and
authoritarian.
Chris

On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>wrote:

>
>
> On 4/19/2011 10:56 AM, Lydia wrote:
> > Homeschool dropouts [DVD videorecording] / Western Conservatory of
> > Arts and Sciences
>
> There is a trailer -- it is all about how the Christian-Homeschooled
> kids are abandoning homeschooling in droves. Says that 80 percent of
> Christian-Homeschooled kids do not homeschool their own kids. It is very
> very negative - all about how horrible the world is and how these
> Christian-Homeschooled kids were given this amazing gift by their
> parents and now they are so NOT living up to their responsibility to
> carry on the "battle."
>
> http://www.benbotkin.com/2009/11/homeschool-dropouts-the-score/
>
> -pam
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rod Thomas

My son 18 wants to have a party, with beer. Some kids are under age.
What are thoughts on this? We allow him to have a beer or two at home,
but I don't want to be responsible for other peoples kids.

It is not actually in our home, but on the property in back acres. I
don't want to worry about him going somewhere else and drinking.

kat


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Patrick

Well the risks involved would be allowing underage kids to drink at your home. If something bad happened, or if someone simply went to police about it, you could be held responsible for supplying alcohol to minors.

I am interested in how many unschoolers would look at his situation. Unschoolers, vary alot of course, but many seem very open to all to the 'freedoms' and 'privileges' that their children find. I am not as open to as much of that because-in my opinion- those freedoms and privileges come from the same system (including school) that is not healthy for children, adults, or any life for that matter.

Patrick

--- In [email protected], "Rod Thomas" <rthomas314@...> wrote:
>
> My son 18 wants to have a party, with beer. Some kids are under age.
> What are thoughts on this? We allow him to have a beer or two at home,
> but I don't want to be responsible for other peoples kids.
>
> It is not actually in our home, but on the property in back acres. I
> don't want to worry about him going somewhere else and drinking.
>
> kat
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-We allow him to have a beer or two at home,
but I don't want to be responsible for other peoples kids.-=-

But you have no option, I'm assuming. If you allow the law to be broken on your property you ARE responsible. Nothing about unschooling changes that.

-=-It is not actually in our home, but on the property in back acres. I
don't want to worry about him going somewhere else and drinking.-=-

The other parents probably don't either, so if the kids don't tell them, and go to your property, get drunk, and get hurt on the way home, you can be liable.

The best plan might be a campout where kids aren't expected to go home, but stay there. If I were going to knowingly do something like that (and I have), I'd offer beds to anyone who might not be good to get home on their own.

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Apr 27, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Rod Thomas wrote:

> My son 18 wants to have a party, with beer. Some kids are under age.
> What are thoughts on this? We allow him to have a beer or two at home,
> but I don't want to be responsible for other peoples kids.

It's more than likely illegal and if you know about it you might be
held legally responsible if a parent gets upset. (Depends on the state.)

Some states prohibit parents from giving a child alcohol. From
Wikipedia: "As of January 1, 2010, 15 states and the District of
Columbia ban underage consumption outright, 17 states do not
specifically ban underage consumption, and the remaining 18 states
have family member and/or location exceptions to their underage
consumption laws." (I know there's a list there somewhere of what the
laws are for each state.)

Approached from a conventional parenting point of view parents would
erect a wall between the child and what he's asking for and say "No,
period, it's illegal."

As a partner to your child, the law is a reason why you don't want to
be involved and if your son feels respected, he'll in turn not want to
do something that could get you in deep trouble. You might want to
investigate with him what would happen to him if he, as an underage
person, hosts a party with beer and the police get involved so he can
make a better informed decision. My guess is the safest, as far as
getting in legal trouble, is if no one's the host and everyone meets
up bringing whatever they bring. Which might make it harder to control
who comes.

Joyce




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

aldq75

I will not provide alcohol to other people's children.

Doing so in my state can result in a $2,000 fine and up to a year in jail. (I believe there are exceptions for providing it to your own children.) I personally wouldn't risk jail time for myself or my husband...we wouldn't be able to care for our family if we were in jail and DH would lose his job.

Andrea Q

--- In [email protected], "Rod Thomas" <rthomas314@...> wrote:
>
> My son 18 wants to have a party, with beer. Some kids are under age.
> What are thoughts on this? We allow him to have a beer or two at home,
> but I don't want to be responsible for other peoples kids.
>
> It is not actually in our home, but on the property in back acres. I
> don't want to worry about him going somewhere else and drinking.
>
> kat
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

aldq75

Some states, such as NH, have "internal possession" laws: consumption isn't expressly prohibited, but teens can still get in legal trouble for being under the influence.

Andrea Q

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:

>
> It's more than likely illegal and if you know about it you might be
> held legally responsible if a parent gets upset. (Depends on the state.)
>
> Some states prohibit parents from giving a child alcohol. From
> Wikipedia: "As of January 1, 2010, 15 states and the District of
> Columbia ban underage consumption outright, 17 states do not
> specifically ban underage consumption, and the remaining 18 states
> have family member and/or location exceptions to their underage
> consumption laws." (I know there's a list there somewhere of what the
> laws are for each state.)
>

wtexans

===I don't want to worry about him going somewhere else and drinking.===

I understand wanting to keep him from harm. But if you break the law by making beer available to minors, what are you risking for yourself and the rest of your family in an effort to control the harm to which your son might be exposed (drinking + driving)???

What harm are you creating for other kids if you knowingly provide beer and they then drive home? Some of them may not be able to stay out overnight; some of them may not be able to tell their parents they've been drinking and that it would be safer if they were *not* home by curfew.

Your son's at an age where he will likely be exposed to beer and liquor and drugs at other people's parties, and you can't protect him from that exposure and you can't protect him from making the least-best choice in some of those situations. But you CAN be the person he trusts to come get him without complaint or lectures if he realizes he shouldn't be driving.

Glenda

Sandra Dodd

-=-I am interested in how many unschoolers would look at his situation. -=-

How many in numbers?
What percentage of this list?

At whose situation?


-=-Unschoolers, vary alot of course, but many seem very open to all to the 'freedoms' and 'privileges' that their children find.-=-

Please rephrase that so that it makes sense.


-=- I am not as open to as much of that-=-

Not as open to as much of what many seem to be open to
Not as open to the idea that there are freedoms and priviliges? By putting the words in quotes, it seems you're saying "so-called" (not real) freedoms and privileges.


-=-... because-in my opinion- those freedoms and privileges come from the same system (including school) that is not healthy for children, adults, or any life for that matter.-=-

I have no idea what you're trying to say. If you think it will help anyone unschool, please attempt to rephrase.

Sandra




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Jenn

How can you let your child do this?? Not to mention other people's children. Just because you don't care if he messes up his liver an dies young didn't mean other parents are as irresponsible. I for one would have you put in jail so fast if I found out you were lettin my child drink, let alone condoning not only dangerous acts but illegal ones as well as aiding in children lying to there parents..

Never regret, at one point it's what you wanted

On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:39 PM, "wtexans" <wtexans@...> wrote:

>
>
> ===I don't want to worry about him going somewhere else and drinking.===
>
> I understand wanting to keep him from harm. But if you break the law by making beer available to minors, what are you risking for yourself and the rest of your family in an effort to control the harm to which your son might be exposed (drinking + driving)???
>
> What harm are you creating for other kids if you knowingly provide beer and they then drive home? Some of them may not be able to stay out overnight; some of them may not be able to tell their parents they've been drinking and that it would be safer if they were *not* home by curfew.
>
> Your son's at an age where he will likely be exposed to beer and liquor and drugs at other people's parties, and you can't protect him from that exposure and you can't protect him from making the least-best choice in some of those situations. But you CAN be the person he trusts to come get him without complaint or lectures if he realizes he shouldn't be driving.
>
> Glenda
>
>


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