helping my daughter with unschooling
Katie
We're new to unschooling, so we're all trying to deschool. My daughter has a friend that she plays with almost everyday. He, in my opinion, belittles her by telling her she isn't learning what she needs to be learning. She will cry at night sometimes telling me about something he said that makes her feel like she isn't learning the "right" stuff. This is causing her stress about learning at home. She's only 8, and really cares about what others think of her and what she's learning. I have suggested that she not play with him or tell him how his comments are hurtful, but she doesn't like those suggestions. Is there a better way for me to look at this?
Katie
Katie
Rod Thomas
We had this problem in the past also, my sons friend told him "you don't
even know how to read". He actually reads very well, but.. that's not
the point. I get the feeling these comments originate from the parents
and the kids repeat it.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Katie
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 11:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] helping my daughter with unschooling
We're new to unschooling, so we're all trying to deschool. My daughter
has a friend that she plays with almost everyday. He, in my opinion,
belittles her by telling her she isn't learning what she needs to be
learning. She will cry at night sometimes telling me about something he
said that makes her feel like she isn't learning the "right" stuff. This
is causing her stress about learning at home. She's only 8, and really
cares about what others think of her and what she's learning. I have
suggested that she not play with him or tell him how his comments are
hurtful, but she doesn't like those suggestions. Is there a better way
for me to look at this?
Katie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
even know how to read". He actually reads very well, but.. that's not
the point. I get the feeling these comments originate from the parents
and the kids repeat it.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Katie
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 11:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] helping my daughter with unschooling
We're new to unschooling, so we're all trying to deschool. My daughter
has a friend that she plays with almost everyday. He, in my opinion,
belittles her by telling her she isn't learning what she needs to be
learning. She will cry at night sometimes telling me about something he
said that makes her feel like she isn't learning the "right" stuff. This
is causing her stress about learning at home. She's only 8, and really
cares about what others think of her and what she's learning. I have
suggested that she not play with him or tell him how his comments are
hurtful, but she doesn't like those suggestions. Is there a better way
for me to look at this?
Katie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have suggested that she not play with him or tell him how his comments are hurtful, but she doesn't like those suggestions. Is there a better way for me to look at this?-=-
YOU tell him to stop talking to her about those things, to talk about other things.
And help her with a couple of phrases she can use when she can't think of what to say. Eight is VERY young to be stuck with an awkward social situation without an adult to go to for help.
Maybe she could say "Let's go and talk to my mom about it," or "Do you want to call my mom and ask her?"
You or she could say "If it turns out she's not learning enough, she can go to school, but right now we're really liking this way.
Or she could say "There are things you know that you didn't learn in school," and name a few (depending what it is he knows; you could help her think of some).
But of she has cried more than once, I think you should have done something directly. It can be friendly and nice, but should be firm. If he were hitting her or sexually molesting her, you wouldn't just let her cry and suggest maybe she could deal with it on her own. If he's repeatedly insulting her and you, that's not really okay, is it?
-=- helping my daughter with unschooling-=-
When I saw the topic, my first thought was that children shouldn't need to understand unschooling. Parents do.
Step up your game. Maybe your life busy and interesting. Invite the other boy to go places with you--not things that seem like school field trips, unless there's something (a museum, zoo) he himself would really love and you know it, but have the boy with your family doing neat stuff so he knows more of what you're doing. Don't talk about learning or about unschooling, just do and be the cool stuff.
-=-We're new to unschooling, so we're all trying to deschool.-=-
If you had a fourteen year old boy, I would say let him sleep late and watch video games all he wanted to, to recover from ten years of school. But you have an eight year old. Do cool things she likes, out of the house as much as possible. Go to lunch where you've never been, or shop where you've never shopped, or go exploring somewhere to take photos or to do sketches or look for birds' nests or ferns or rocks or something.
Sandra
YOU tell him to stop talking to her about those things, to talk about other things.
And help her with a couple of phrases she can use when she can't think of what to say. Eight is VERY young to be stuck with an awkward social situation without an adult to go to for help.
Maybe she could say "Let's go and talk to my mom about it," or "Do you want to call my mom and ask her?"
You or she could say "If it turns out she's not learning enough, she can go to school, but right now we're really liking this way.
Or she could say "There are things you know that you didn't learn in school," and name a few (depending what it is he knows; you could help her think of some).
But of she has cried more than once, I think you should have done something directly. It can be friendly and nice, but should be firm. If he were hitting her or sexually molesting her, you wouldn't just let her cry and suggest maybe she could deal with it on her own. If he's repeatedly insulting her and you, that's not really okay, is it?
-=- helping my daughter with unschooling-=-
When I saw the topic, my first thought was that children shouldn't need to understand unschooling. Parents do.
Step up your game. Maybe your life busy and interesting. Invite the other boy to go places with you--not things that seem like school field trips, unless there's something (a museum, zoo) he himself would really love and you know it, but have the boy with your family doing neat stuff so he knows more of what you're doing. Don't talk about learning or about unschooling, just do and be the cool stuff.
-=-We're new to unschooling, so we're all trying to deschool.-=-
If you had a fourteen year old boy, I would say let him sleep late and watch video games all he wanted to, to recover from ten years of school. But you have an eight year old. Do cool things she likes, out of the house as much as possible. Go to lunch where you've never been, or shop where you've never shopped, or go exploring somewhere to take photos or to do sketches or look for birds' nests or ferns or rocks or something.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-I get the feeling these comments originate from the parents
and the kids repeat it. -=-
Yes, I agree.
They also come from kids playing unsupervised, though, so maybe arrange to be with those two more for a while and keep the conversation on other, cheerier things so they have a relationship based on their shared experiences rather than their differences.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and the kids repeat it. -=-
Yes, I agree.
They also come from kids playing unsupervised, though, so maybe arrange to be with those two more for a while and keep the conversation on other, cheerier things so they have a relationship based on their shared experiences rather than their differences.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katie
***But if she has cried more than once, I think you should have done something directly. It can be friendly and nice, but should be firm. If he were hitting her or sexually molesting her, you wouldn't just let her cry and suggest maybe she could deal with it on her own. If he's repeatedly insulting her and you, that's not really okay, is it?***
A light bulb came on in my head from this, thank you. I'm anxiously waiting for my daughter to come home so I can apologize for trying to put it on her.
Any suggestions how I know when I should step in or when she is just wanting to talk and wanting advice? I remember my mom stepping in for me on a certain occasion and I was so embarrassed because I had really just wanted to talk to her about it. Granted I was in high school and that is much older. But it kept me from going back to her about other issues.
A light bulb came on in my head from this, thank you. I'm anxiously waiting for my daughter to come home so I can apologize for trying to put it on her.
Any suggestions how I know when I should step in or when she is just wanting to talk and wanting advice? I remember my mom stepping in for me on a certain occasion and I was so embarrassed because I had really just wanted to talk to her about it. Granted I was in high school and that is much older. But it kept me from going back to her about other issues.
Rod Thomas
<<<If you had a fourteen year old boy, I would say let him sleep late
and watch video games all he wanted to, to recover from ten years of
school. But you have an eight year old. Do cool things she likes, out of
the house as much as possible. Go to lunch where you've never been, or
shop where you've never shopped, or go exploring somewhere to take
photos or to do sketches or look for birds' nests or ferns or rocks or
something.
Sandra>>>>
What about a 12yo that's never been to school, and is not at all
interested in leaving the house? I invite him out a lot, but get
turned down 95% of the time. We used to play games a lot, made things,
collected things, fun science stuff, exploring, etc. But maybe he
burned out. We used to go a lot when he and his older brother were
younger.
He is v much interested in his laptop or xbox.
kat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and watch video games all he wanted to, to recover from ten years of
school. But you have an eight year old. Do cool things she likes, out of
the house as much as possible. Go to lunch where you've never been, or
shop where you've never shopped, or go exploring somewhere to take
photos or to do sketches or look for birds' nests or ferns or rocks or
something.
Sandra>>>>
What about a 12yo that's never been to school, and is not at all
interested in leaving the house? I invite him out a lot, but get
turned down 95% of the time. We used to play games a lot, made things,
collected things, fun science stuff, exploring, etc. But maybe he
burned out. We used to go a lot when he and his older brother were
younger.
He is v much interested in his laptop or xbox.
kat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-A light bulb came on in my head from this, thank you. I'm anxiously waiting for my daughter to come home so I can apologize for trying to put it on her.-=-
It should be a shared project, not all you, and not all her. Please don't think in extremes about it. Or rather don't overcompensate by going completely the other way. There shouldn't be a rule about it. And I'm thinking maybe in your head you had a ghostly rule about "let them work it out." (Maybe not.)
-=-Any suggestions how I know when I should step in or when she is just wanting to talk and wanting advice?-=-
Nobody in the world could know when you should step in for certain. :-)
I think more often than 'just right,' people respond too soon or too late, too wimpily or too strongly. It's hard to get just the right amount at just the right time.
What you can do, though, is aim toward "a little better than last time," and eventually you'll have better aim in general.
-=-I remember my mom stepping in for me on a certain occasion and I was so embarrassed because I had really just wanted to talk to her about it. Granted I was in high school and that is much older. But it kept me from going back to her about other issues.-=-
Don't let that color all your decisions now, either. People can live in too much a reactionary way, rather than a thoughtful way.
http://sandradodd.com/rules
(It's not a list of rules, it's how to get away from rules.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It should be a shared project, not all you, and not all her. Please don't think in extremes about it. Or rather don't overcompensate by going completely the other way. There shouldn't be a rule about it. And I'm thinking maybe in your head you had a ghostly rule about "let them work it out." (Maybe not.)
-=-Any suggestions how I know when I should step in or when she is just wanting to talk and wanting advice?-=-
Nobody in the world could know when you should step in for certain. :-)
I think more often than 'just right,' people respond too soon or too late, too wimpily or too strongly. It's hard to get just the right amount at just the right time.
What you can do, though, is aim toward "a little better than last time," and eventually you'll have better aim in general.
-=-I remember my mom stepping in for me on a certain occasion and I was so embarrassed because I had really just wanted to talk to her about it. Granted I was in high school and that is much older. But it kept me from going back to her about other issues.-=-
Don't let that color all your decisions now, either. People can live in too much a reactionary way, rather than a thoughtful way.
http://sandradodd.com/rules
(It's not a list of rules, it's how to get away from rules.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-What about a 12yo that's never been to school, and is not at all
interested in leaving the house? I invite him out a lot, but get
turned down 95% of the time. We used to play games a lot, made things,
collected things, fun science stuff, exploring, etc. But maybe he
burned out. We used to go a lot when he and his older brother were
younger.
-=-He is v much interested in his laptop or xbox.-=-
How long has he not wanted to go out? He doesn't want to go ANYwhere? He wouldn't want to go to GenCon?
Does he have others over, or is he playing online with others?
Twelve year old boys can be very stay-at-home guys, in my experience and from other families I've seen. I don't think it will last forever. And while it is lasting, the questions you could ask are:
Is he happy?
Is he learning?
Is there a gaming shop like a board games shop in town?
Does he have any other interests at home? Cooking? Music? Sports? Art? What does he like about the games? Logic? History/story-line? Interactions between characters? There are parts to what a person is doing on a laptop. In the past 24 hours, though someone else might say "she is very much interested in her laptop," I've corresponded with several people in the UK, planning a trip; corresponded with my friend who's living in France but is coming to Albuqeurque in a few weeks for her daughter's college graduation party; edited photos and written some blog posts; played Angry Birds; looked up places in England, and train stations; listened to several chapters of a book about human nature today, and of religion yesterday; printed out some labels for the post office (rather than buy them, printed some Media Mail labels I found with image and reproduced in a two-column word file and then taped on a couple of packages); played a game with Marty; set up two lyrics game plays (one for yesterday, and one will launch at midnight tonight, for tomorrow http://lyricsgame.blogspot.com ); looked at some photos of interesting details of buildings, sculptures and features in London (weather vanes, an old cast iron street lamp) that Schuyler sent me; ordered a vest with inside pockets for passport and camera; complained to Mattel.com that they wrote and asked me to review some World Wrestling action figures that I didn't buy, and asked them to make sure I wasn't charged for those, because though I DID get the Barbie with peeing puppies (a gift for Zoya, in India; don't tell), I didn't buy/get/want the action figures.
Probably other things.
Probably when you look at your son and it looks like laptop or xbox, it's more like that.
Here's a Gilligan's Island rundown I wrote years ago:
http://sandradodd.com/t/gilligan
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
interested in leaving the house? I invite him out a lot, but get
turned down 95% of the time. We used to play games a lot, made things,
collected things, fun science stuff, exploring, etc. But maybe he
burned out. We used to go a lot when he and his older brother were
younger.
-=-He is v much interested in his laptop or xbox.-=-
How long has he not wanted to go out? He doesn't want to go ANYwhere? He wouldn't want to go to GenCon?
Does he have others over, or is he playing online with others?
Twelve year old boys can be very stay-at-home guys, in my experience and from other families I've seen. I don't think it will last forever. And while it is lasting, the questions you could ask are:
Is he happy?
Is he learning?
Is there a gaming shop like a board games shop in town?
Does he have any other interests at home? Cooking? Music? Sports? Art? What does he like about the games? Logic? History/story-line? Interactions between characters? There are parts to what a person is doing on a laptop. In the past 24 hours, though someone else might say "she is very much interested in her laptop," I've corresponded with several people in the UK, planning a trip; corresponded with my friend who's living in France but is coming to Albuqeurque in a few weeks for her daughter's college graduation party; edited photos and written some blog posts; played Angry Birds; looked up places in England, and train stations; listened to several chapters of a book about human nature today, and of religion yesterday; printed out some labels for the post office (rather than buy them, printed some Media Mail labels I found with image and reproduced in a two-column word file and then taped on a couple of packages); played a game with Marty; set up two lyrics game plays (one for yesterday, and one will launch at midnight tonight, for tomorrow http://lyricsgame.blogspot.com ); looked at some photos of interesting details of buildings, sculptures and features in London (weather vanes, an old cast iron street lamp) that Schuyler sent me; ordered a vest with inside pockets for passport and camera; complained to Mattel.com that they wrote and asked me to review some World Wrestling action figures that I didn't buy, and asked them to make sure I wasn't charged for those, because though I DID get the Barbie with peeing puppies (a gift for Zoya, in India; don't tell), I didn't buy/get/want the action figures.
Probably other things.
Probably when you look at your son and it looks like laptop or xbox, it's more like that.
Here's a Gilligan's Island rundown I wrote years ago:
http://sandradodd.com/t/gilligan
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-What about a 12yo that's never been to school, and is not at all
interested in leaving the house? -=-
I answered it, but it's not really parallel to a family that's just started unschooling and the child is hearing bad information about unschooling before she has enough experience, age or confidence to see it objectively.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
interested in leaving the house? -=-
I answered it, but it's not really parallel to a family that's just started unschooling and the child is hearing bad information about unschooling before she has enough experience, age or confidence to see it objectively.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rod Thomas
He no longer wants to go to our homeschool support group gathering at
park, so we haven't in a year. He plays minecraft a lot, Gary's mod,
Fiesta, and watches LOTS of anime type shows like Naruto, tons of
episodes, some nights with his Dad. That s pretty much it, except to
stop and eat or play with the dog some. Then he also plays xbox live,
laughs outloud and talks to others . I don't know what GenCon is. He
plays on line with others, and has an occasional friend over, not v
often. An occasional Friday night bowling is the most he ventures out.
Definitely learning cause whenever I ask "how did you know that?" its
usu from gaming or tv.
Not into cooking, music, sports, art,.
He seems happy but I do sense a restlessness, boredom at times. Hoping
it wont last forever, being patient. I do bring him food, find him
online friends, help him buy hardware, etc.
But I am concerned.
kat
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 4:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] 12 year old boy (was another topic at
first)
-=-What about a 12yo that's never been to school, and is not at all
interested in leaving the house? I invite him out a lot, but get
turned down 95% of the time. We used to play games a lot, made things,
collected things, fun science stuff, exploring, etc. But maybe he
burned out. We used to go a lot when he and his older brother were
younger.
-=-He is v much interested in his laptop or xbox.-=-
How long has he not wanted to go out? He doesn't want to go ANYwhere? He
wouldn't want to go to GenCon?
Does he have others over, or is he playing online with others?
Twelve year old boys can be very stay-at-home guys, in my experience and
from other families I've seen. I don't think it will last forever. And
while it is lasting, the questions you could ask are:
Is he happy?
Is he learning?
Is there a gaming shop like a board games shop in town?
Does he have any other interests at home? Cooking? Music? Sports? Art?
What does he like about the games? Logic? History/story-line?
Interactions between characters? There are parts to what a person is
doing on a laptop. In the past 24 hours, though someone else might say
"she is very much interested in her laptop," I've corresponded with
several people in the UK, planning a trip; corresponded with my friend
who's living in France but is coming to Albuqeurque in a few weeks for
her daughter's college graduation party; edited photos and written some
blog posts; played Angry Birds; looked up places in England, and train
stations; listened to several chapters of a book about human nature
today, and of religion yesterday; printed out some labels for the post
office (rather than buy them, printed some Media Mail labels I found
with image and reproduced in a two-column word file and then taped on a
couple of packages); played a game with Marty; set up two lyrics game
plays (one for yesterday, and one will launch at midnight tonight, for
tomorrow http://lyricsgame.blogspot.com ); looked at some photos of
interesting details of buildings, sculptures and features in London
(weather vanes, an old cast iron street lamp) that Schuyler sent me;
ordered a vest with inside pockets for passport and camera; complained
to Mattel.com that they wrote and asked me to review some World
Wrestling action figures that I didn't buy, and asked them to make sure
I wasn't charged for those, because though I DID get the Barbie with
peeing puppies (a gift for Zoya, in India; don't tell), I didn't
buy/get/want the action figures.
Probably other things.
Probably when you look at your son and it looks like laptop or xbox,
it's more like that.
Here's a Gilligan's Island rundown I wrote years ago:
http://sandradodd.com/t/gilligan
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
park, so we haven't in a year. He plays minecraft a lot, Gary's mod,
Fiesta, and watches LOTS of anime type shows like Naruto, tons of
episodes, some nights with his Dad. That s pretty much it, except to
stop and eat or play with the dog some. Then he also plays xbox live,
laughs outloud and talks to others . I don't know what GenCon is. He
plays on line with others, and has an occasional friend over, not v
often. An occasional Friday night bowling is the most he ventures out.
Definitely learning cause whenever I ask "how did you know that?" its
usu from gaming or tv.
Not into cooking, music, sports, art,.
He seems happy but I do sense a restlessness, boredom at times. Hoping
it wont last forever, being patient. I do bring him food, find him
online friends, help him buy hardware, etc.
But I am concerned.
kat
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 4:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] 12 year old boy (was another topic at
first)
-=-What about a 12yo that's never been to school, and is not at all
interested in leaving the house? I invite him out a lot, but get
turned down 95% of the time. We used to play games a lot, made things,
collected things, fun science stuff, exploring, etc. But maybe he
burned out. We used to go a lot when he and his older brother were
younger.
-=-He is v much interested in his laptop or xbox.-=-
How long has he not wanted to go out? He doesn't want to go ANYwhere? He
wouldn't want to go to GenCon?
Does he have others over, or is he playing online with others?
Twelve year old boys can be very stay-at-home guys, in my experience and
from other families I've seen. I don't think it will last forever. And
while it is lasting, the questions you could ask are:
Is he happy?
Is he learning?
Is there a gaming shop like a board games shop in town?
Does he have any other interests at home? Cooking? Music? Sports? Art?
What does he like about the games? Logic? History/story-line?
Interactions between characters? There are parts to what a person is
doing on a laptop. In the past 24 hours, though someone else might say
"she is very much interested in her laptop," I've corresponded with
several people in the UK, planning a trip; corresponded with my friend
who's living in France but is coming to Albuqeurque in a few weeks for
her daughter's college graduation party; edited photos and written some
blog posts; played Angry Birds; looked up places in England, and train
stations; listened to several chapters of a book about human nature
today, and of religion yesterday; printed out some labels for the post
office (rather than buy them, printed some Media Mail labels I found
with image and reproduced in a two-column word file and then taped on a
couple of packages); played a game with Marty; set up two lyrics game
plays (one for yesterday, and one will launch at midnight tonight, for
tomorrow http://lyricsgame.blogspot.com ); looked at some photos of
interesting details of buildings, sculptures and features in London
(weather vanes, an old cast iron street lamp) that Schuyler sent me;
ordered a vest with inside pockets for passport and camera; complained
to Mattel.com that they wrote and asked me to review some World
Wrestling action figures that I didn't buy, and asked them to make sure
I wasn't charged for those, because though I DID get the Barbie with
peeing puppies (a gift for Zoya, in India; don't tell), I didn't
buy/get/want the action figures.
Probably other things.
Probably when you look at your son and it looks like laptop or xbox,
it's more like that.
Here's a Gilligan's Island rundown I wrote years ago:
http://sandradodd.com/t/gilligan
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina Tarbutton
On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Rod Thomas <rthomas314@...> wrote:
even love when it wakes me up in the middle of the night.
And replace dog with cats, he loves to pick them up and cuddle them. Eating
happens while playing video games, we do lots of finger foods for that
reason and I pull dishes out of his room throughout the day.
He will typically try something else once. He made one stop motion video,
made 2 clay figures during one session, planned to paint them, still hasn't.
He'll make part of a meal with me before heading back to his room and not
helping me cook again for weeks. He had to start trusting that I would let
him do these things just once or just part way before he started venturing
out of his comfort zone (the electronics) to try them. Now he knows he can
stop mid project if he doesn't like it and either I'll finish it for him, or
we'll just clean it up and move on.
He doesn't particularly like driving anywhere, but lately he loves the idea
of walking to the gas station either with our without me. It helps that I
make sure he has some money to buy himself a slurpee and some gaming snacks.
Tonight (once it cools down) we might venture a little further and pick up
some prescriptions on foot.
I keep offering new ideas, knowing that they will probably be rejected or
only tried once. These things will likely be revisited sometime in the
future, but for now he's learning plenty and getting lots of enjoyment from
his electronics.
Tina
--
Unschooling Untitled <http://www.unschoolinguntitled.com> (
http://www.unschoolinguntitled.com )
Living an unschooled lifestyle, one experience at a time!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> That s pretty much it, except toEspecially the laughing out loud during Xbox live. I love that laugh, I
> stop and eat or play with the dog some. Then he also plays xbox live,
> laughs outloud and talks to others .
>
> He seems happy but I do sense a restlessness, boredom at times. Hoping
> it wont last forever, being patient. I do bring him food, find him
> online friends, help him buy hardware, etc.
>
> But I am concerned.
>
> This sounds like my just turned 11 y/o.
even love when it wakes me up in the middle of the night.
And replace dog with cats, he loves to pick them up and cuddle them. Eating
happens while playing video games, we do lots of finger foods for that
reason and I pull dishes out of his room throughout the day.
He will typically try something else once. He made one stop motion video,
made 2 clay figures during one session, planned to paint them, still hasn't.
He'll make part of a meal with me before heading back to his room and not
helping me cook again for weeks. He had to start trusting that I would let
him do these things just once or just part way before he started venturing
out of his comfort zone (the electronics) to try them. Now he knows he can
stop mid project if he doesn't like it and either I'll finish it for him, or
we'll just clean it up and move on.
He doesn't particularly like driving anywhere, but lately he loves the idea
of walking to the gas station either with our without me. It helps that I
make sure he has some money to buy himself a slurpee and some gaming snacks.
Tonight (once it cools down) we might venture a little further and pick up
some prescriptions on foot.
I keep offering new ideas, knowing that they will probably be rejected or
only tried once. These things will likely be revisited sometime in the
future, but for now he's learning plenty and getting lots of enjoyment from
his electronics.
Tina
--
Unschooling Untitled <http://www.unschoolinguntitled.com> (
http://www.unschoolinguntitled.com )
Living an unschooled lifestyle, one experience at a time!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JustSayin
Hi -
When I read your post I was reminded of a situation we had that was similar:
Our neighbor's son was good friends with my two boys before we started unschooling. When we stopped sending them to school, he clearly had questions about it (some of which I overheard him asking my kids). After a while he started making statements like "well if you don't go to college you'll be flipping burgers for a living".
When these comments would come up, I could just HEAR his Dad's voice coming out of this boy's mouth. What I also think, knowing what a persistent kid he is, was that he was pretty much bugging them every day to come up with reasons that he had to go to school when our kids didn't.
This can make a pretty difficult scenario for schooling parents, because if they are at all honest with themselves (or their kids) it's pretty hard to come up with a reason for going to school. So they fall back on the "they won't learn anything", or "they'll never make any money", etc. These comments are then parroted by their kids to their unschooled friends.
I was lucky enough to be in the vicinity more often than not when these comments were made, because he was most often at our house playing. I was always pleased at how my boys would respond (or not), I honestly think deep in their souls they understood why we do what we do, and that made all the difference. I'm pretty fervent in my beliefs about school, so that helps too. Plus they had each been to school themselves, and no offhand comment from a schooled friend was going to send them back to THAT place.
On the rare occasion when a "you'll be flipping burgers if you don't go to college" comment would fly, and my kids didn't have the experience to respond, I would wander by and say, "Hmmm. Bill Gates didn't finish college, and it seems like he's done pretty well". (I would have loved to have been a fly on the neighbors' wall at the dinner table THAT night ;> )
For this and other reasons (a little abuse of the convenience that we were home much of the time and as such we became a day camp for their kid, and his schooly ways were not exactly the best match to our unschooled life), we felt we had to limit our interaction with these neighbors. Frankly I think it's a bit of a relief for them not to have to continually justify (to themselves and to their son) their unquestioning participation in the institution of school.
If you are physically near enough when they play/talk (and maybe you could make that happen somehow, like limit play times to be at your house or something) to interject with a lighthearted "what works for you doesn't seem to work as well for us" comment or a "we so enjoy our life, I'm glad you are getting so much out of school" that might help shut it down.
If you are worried about making comments and embarrassing her (but remember that's YOUR experience, not hers) you could ask your daughter how you can help her. I always ask my boys if they want me to say something to someone or otherwise intervene on their behalf. Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes it's no. I respect (and do) whichever it is.
You might want to try to limit her time with this friend for a while (this may happen naturally anyway). If you think your daughter will understand it, you might just tell her that what we do as unschoolers makes people question what THEY do, and that can make people very nervous, so they try to make themselves feel "right" again by putting down what unschoolers do. That might be more than she can digest, but it might not hurt to mention it to her in some way.
You might also want to go over with your daughter the reasons you (and she, presumably) decided to unschool. You might have to say it's not what most people do (yet), but that the decision was made because you want her to have ALL of the options life has available to her, not just the options she'll get in the very narrow confines of a school setting. Feel good about it in a real (not an afraid) way (because you should - it's a great decision you've made, the rest of the world just hasn't caught up with you yet), and hopefully she'll feel stronger and better about it too.
--Melissa
When I read your post I was reminded of a situation we had that was similar:
Our neighbor's son was good friends with my two boys before we started unschooling. When we stopped sending them to school, he clearly had questions about it (some of which I overheard him asking my kids). After a while he started making statements like "well if you don't go to college you'll be flipping burgers for a living".
When these comments would come up, I could just HEAR his Dad's voice coming out of this boy's mouth. What I also think, knowing what a persistent kid he is, was that he was pretty much bugging them every day to come up with reasons that he had to go to school when our kids didn't.
This can make a pretty difficult scenario for schooling parents, because if they are at all honest with themselves (or their kids) it's pretty hard to come up with a reason for going to school. So they fall back on the "they won't learn anything", or "they'll never make any money", etc. These comments are then parroted by their kids to their unschooled friends.
I was lucky enough to be in the vicinity more often than not when these comments were made, because he was most often at our house playing. I was always pleased at how my boys would respond (or not), I honestly think deep in their souls they understood why we do what we do, and that made all the difference. I'm pretty fervent in my beliefs about school, so that helps too. Plus they had each been to school themselves, and no offhand comment from a schooled friend was going to send them back to THAT place.
On the rare occasion when a "you'll be flipping burgers if you don't go to college" comment would fly, and my kids didn't have the experience to respond, I would wander by and say, "Hmmm. Bill Gates didn't finish college, and it seems like he's done pretty well". (I would have loved to have been a fly on the neighbors' wall at the dinner table THAT night ;> )
For this and other reasons (a little abuse of the convenience that we were home much of the time and as such we became a day camp for their kid, and his schooly ways were not exactly the best match to our unschooled life), we felt we had to limit our interaction with these neighbors. Frankly I think it's a bit of a relief for them not to have to continually justify (to themselves and to their son) their unquestioning participation in the institution of school.
If you are physically near enough when they play/talk (and maybe you could make that happen somehow, like limit play times to be at your house or something) to interject with a lighthearted "what works for you doesn't seem to work as well for us" comment or a "we so enjoy our life, I'm glad you are getting so much out of school" that might help shut it down.
If you are worried about making comments and embarrassing her (but remember that's YOUR experience, not hers) you could ask your daughter how you can help her. I always ask my boys if they want me to say something to someone or otherwise intervene on their behalf. Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes it's no. I respect (and do) whichever it is.
You might want to try to limit her time with this friend for a while (this may happen naturally anyway). If you think your daughter will understand it, you might just tell her that what we do as unschoolers makes people question what THEY do, and that can make people very nervous, so they try to make themselves feel "right" again by putting down what unschoolers do. That might be more than she can digest, but it might not hurt to mention it to her in some way.
You might also want to go over with your daughter the reasons you (and she, presumably) decided to unschool. You might have to say it's not what most people do (yet), but that the decision was made because you want her to have ALL of the options life has available to her, not just the options she'll get in the very narrow confines of a school setting. Feel good about it in a real (not an afraid) way (because you should - it's a great decision you've made, the rest of the world just hasn't caught up with you yet), and hopefully she'll feel stronger and better about it too.
--Melissa
--- In [email protected], "Katie" <katie_kees@...> wrote:
>
> We're new to unschooling, so we're all trying to deschool. My daughter has a friend that she plays with almost everyday. He, in my opinion, belittles her by telling her she isn't learning what she needs to be learning. She will cry at night sometimes telling me about something he said that makes her feel like she isn't learning the "right" stuff. This is causing her stress about learning at home. She's only 8, and really cares about what others think of her and what she's learning. I have suggested that she not play with him or tell him how his comments are hurtful, but she doesn't like those suggestions. Is there a better way for me to look at this?
>
> Katie
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-You might also want to go over with your daughter the reasons you (and she, presumably) decided to unschool. You might have to say it's not what most people do (yet), but that the decision was made because you want her to have ALL of the options life has available to her, not just the options she'll get in the very narrow confines of a school setting. Feel good about it in a real (not an afraid) way (because you should - it's a great decision you've made, the rest of the world just hasn't caught up with you yet), and hopefully she'll feel stronger and better about it too. -=
Melissa had lots of good ideas.
Another thing here to think about, at least for the parents, is that if/when a teen wants to learn all the things she missed by not going to school, it would only take about a year. But those who went to school couldn't "unlearn" the things they and school wish they hadn't learned. :-)
Not all kids have a terrible experience. I hope this list and other such resources will help all unschooled kids have great experiences, though!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa had lots of good ideas.
Another thing here to think about, at least for the parents, is that if/when a teen wants to learn all the things she missed by not going to school, it would only take about a year. But those who went to school couldn't "unlearn" the things they and school wish they hadn't learned. :-)
Not all kids have a terrible experience. I hope this list and other such resources will help all unschooled kids have great experiences, though!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katie
I really appreciate all the suggestions. It has opened my eyes to new ways of handling all sorts of things.
Unfortunately I have not been around when the comments are made because he never wants to play at our house. Turns out he is jealous of some legos my daughter has, however he chooses to tell her that her "stuff" isn't fun to play with. But I have told my daughter that they are only to play at our house for a while. I explained that I would like to be around to help her when these comments come up. I even asked her how she would feel if I said something to him (what a concept huh). She said she would like me to, and seemed relieved that I would handle it.
While he was on Spring Break we were doing some really fun things a few days and my daughter decided her "friend" would really enjoy it and asked if she could invite him over. She was right, he did really get into making pulleys in the backyard and playing with pvc pipe to water all the flowers at once. So I thought that might open his eyes a bit.
We've gotten into a habit of doing most planned activities (building things, experiments, going to the creek etc) during the day when everyone else is at school. After everyone has finished homework (not my kids) and allowed to play, they seem to show up and ask my daughters to play. So should I try to plan more cool things for when everyone else is home, so they "see" what we do?
Also, do I wait for another "remark" from him or do you recommend addressing the previous comments? My husband feels I should wait until another moment presents itself, but I feel like it's just waiting for her to have a chance to get hurt again.
Thanks so much, Katie
Unfortunately I have not been around when the comments are made because he never wants to play at our house. Turns out he is jealous of some legos my daughter has, however he chooses to tell her that her "stuff" isn't fun to play with. But I have told my daughter that they are only to play at our house for a while. I explained that I would like to be around to help her when these comments come up. I even asked her how she would feel if I said something to him (what a concept huh). She said she would like me to, and seemed relieved that I would handle it.
While he was on Spring Break we were doing some really fun things a few days and my daughter decided her "friend" would really enjoy it and asked if she could invite him over. She was right, he did really get into making pulleys in the backyard and playing with pvc pipe to water all the flowers at once. So I thought that might open his eyes a bit.
We've gotten into a habit of doing most planned activities (building things, experiments, going to the creek etc) during the day when everyone else is at school. After everyone has finished homework (not my kids) and allowed to play, they seem to show up and ask my daughters to play. So should I try to plan more cool things for when everyone else is home, so they "see" what we do?
Also, do I wait for another "remark" from him or do you recommend addressing the previous comments? My husband feels I should wait until another moment presents itself, but I feel like it's just waiting for her to have a chance to get hurt again.
Thanks so much, Katie
--- In [email protected], "JustSayin" <mfcappella@...> wrote:
>
> Hi -
>
> When I read your post I was reminded of a situation we had that was similar:
>
> Our neighbor's son was good friends with my two boys before we started unschooling. When we stopped sending them to school, he clearly had questions about it (some of which I overheard him asking my kids). After a while he started making statements like "well if you don't go to college you'll be flipping burgers for a living".
>
> When these comments would come up, I could just HEAR his Dad's voice coming out of this boy's mouth. What I also think, knowing what a persistent kid he is, was that he was pretty much bugging them every day to come up with reasons that he had to go to school when our kids didn't.
>
> This can make a pretty difficult scenario for schooling parents, because if they are at all honest with themselves (or their kids) it's pretty hard to come up with a reason for going to school. So they fall back on the "they won't learn anything", or "they'll never make any money", etc. These comments are then parroted by their kids to their unschooled friends.
>
> I was lucky enough to be in the vicinity more often than not when these comments were made, because he was most often at our house playing. I was always pleased at how my boys would respond (or not), I honestly think deep in their souls they understood why we do what we do, and that made all the difference. I'm pretty fervent in my beliefs about school, so that helps too. Plus they had each been to school themselves, and no offhand comment from a schooled friend was going to send them back to THAT place.
>
> On the rare occasion when a "you'll be flipping burgers if you don't go to college" comment would fly, and my kids didn't have the experience to respond, I would wander by and say, "Hmmm. Bill Gates didn't finish college, and it seems like he's done pretty well". (I would have loved to have been a fly on the neighbors' wall at the dinner table THAT night ;> )
>
> For this and other reasons (a little abuse of the convenience that we were home much of the time and as such we became a day camp for their kid, and his schooly ways were not exactly the best match to our unschooled life), we felt we had to limit our interaction with these neighbors. Frankly I think it's a bit of a relief for them not to have to continually justify (to themselves and to their son) their unquestioning participation in the institution of school.
>
> If you are physically near enough when they play/talk (and maybe you could make that happen somehow, like limit play times to be at your house or something) to interject with a lighthearted "what works for you doesn't seem to work as well for us" comment or a "we so enjoy our life, I'm glad you are getting so much out of school" that might help shut it down.
>
> If you are worried about making comments and embarrassing her (but remember that's YOUR experience, not hers) you could ask your daughter how you can help her. I always ask my boys if they want me to say something to someone or otherwise intervene on their behalf. Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes it's no. I respect (and do) whichever it is.
>
> You might want to try to limit her time with this friend for a while (this may happen naturally anyway). If you think your daughter will understand it, you might just tell her that what we do as unschoolers makes people question what THEY do, and that can make people very nervous, so they try to make themselves feel "right" again by putting down what unschoolers do. That might be more than she can digest, but it might not hurt to mention it to her in some way.
>
> You might also want to go over with your daughter the reasons you (and she, presumably) decided to unschool. You might have to say it's not what most people do (yet), but that the decision was made because you want her to have ALL of the options life has available to her, not just the options she'll get in the very narrow confines of a school setting. Feel good about it in a real (not an afraid) way (because you should - it's a great decision you've made, the rest of the world just hasn't caught up with you yet), and hopefully she'll feel stronger and better about it too.
>
>
> --Melissa
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Katie" <katie_kees@> wrote:
> >
> > We're new to unschooling, so we're all trying to deschool. My daughter has a friend that she plays with almost everyday. He, in my opinion, belittles her by telling her she isn't learning what she needs to be learning. She will cry at night sometimes telling me about something he said that makes her feel like she isn't learning the "right" stuff. This is causing her stress about learning at home. She's only 8, and really cares about what others think of her and what she's learning. I have suggested that she not play with him or tell him how his comments are hurtful, but she doesn't like those suggestions. Is there a better way for me to look at this?
> >
> > Katie
> >
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-So should I try to plan more cool things for when everyone else is home, so they "see" what we do?-=-
Partly, maybe. But mostly because sometimes cool things are more fun when shared.
If you're hoping that particular boy would chill out if he saw learning opportunities, I think it's useful all kinds of ways.
But if all that happens is your daughter has more fun because there was another child with her, that's valuable all by itself.
-=-when everyone else is home-=-
It doesn't need to be an "everyone." :-)
When you do talk to the boy about school and unschooling, if you liked school maybe say so. It would be cruel to make him think school is awful or to remind him that his mom could choose otherwise. I would support the situation he's in, but say you don' want your daughter to be made to feel bad. Maybe that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Partly, maybe. But mostly because sometimes cool things are more fun when shared.
If you're hoping that particular boy would chill out if he saw learning opportunities, I think it's useful all kinds of ways.
But if all that happens is your daughter has more fun because there was another child with her, that's valuable all by itself.
-=-when everyone else is home-=-
It doesn't need to be an "everyone." :-)
When you do talk to the boy about school and unschooling, if you liked school maybe say so. It would be cruel to make him think school is awful or to remind him that his mom could choose otherwise. I would support the situation he's in, but say you don' want your daughter to be made to feel bad. Maybe that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"Katie" <katie_kees@...> wrote:
Having things planned or even partially planned - all the stuff collected in on place so it can be grabbed at the spur of the moment - can make things run more smoothly. It could help direct attention away from, say Legos - which could otherwise be a sort of "default" for the kids and then stir up some issues. So being able to say "oh, hey, look what I've got!" is a handy diversion. In a way, this is similar to Sandra's "museum house" idea. You don't need to go stock up on games and projects for your visitors, necessarily, but think about things you have and want to do 'someday' that could work well with a guest.
http://sandradodd.com/museum
---Meredith
>So should I try to plan more cool things for when everyone else is home, so they "see" what we do?***************
Having things planned or even partially planned - all the stuff collected in on place so it can be grabbed at the spur of the moment - can make things run more smoothly. It could help direct attention away from, say Legos - which could otherwise be a sort of "default" for the kids and then stir up some issues. So being able to say "oh, hey, look what I've got!" is a handy diversion. In a way, this is similar to Sandra's "museum house" idea. You don't need to go stock up on games and projects for your visitors, necessarily, but think about things you have and want to do 'someday' that could work well with a guest.
http://sandradodd.com/museum
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-Having things planned or even partially planned - all the stuff collected in on place so it can be grabbed at the spur of the moment - can make things run more smoothly-=-
When we had planned days or parties, I would try to have two activities, set to go, in different places, and a movie cued up (in videotape days; easier now, maybe), and some food nearly ready to set out. Maybe they wouldn't need four acts, but they might. When/if things got bumpy or boring, I'd have a change of place and mood all ready to go, and while they were doing the next thing, I could clean up the prior activity area.
One trick with that is for the mom not to take it personally or feel hurt if they don't want ANY of those things but come up with their own Plan E. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When we had planned days or parties, I would try to have two activities, set to go, in different places, and a movie cued up (in videotape days; easier now, maybe), and some food nearly ready to set out. Maybe they wouldn't need four acts, but they might. When/if things got bumpy or boring, I'd have a change of place and mood all ready to go, and while they were doing the next thing, I could clean up the prior activity area.
One trick with that is for the mom not to take it personally or feel hurt if they don't want ANY of those things but come up with their own Plan E. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]