connecting with your always schooled teen
rubixscuba
i could use some help figuring out how someone who is new to unschooling ideas/discovering unschooling "late" can find a way to make it work with an older child/teen who has always gone to school and actually loves it?
i have recently become painfully aware of how difficult it is to find real quality time to spend with my 14 yo. since she goes to school and has all these things she wants to do with her friends after school i feel like i rarely have time with her. she is very peer oriented and in the popular clique at school (so weird to me since i was always a bit of a social misfit myself) and constantly texting and talking on the phone with her friends. hanging out with mom/younger siblings isn't interesting to her. it feels like she is a bit disconnected from the rest of the family (she also has a different dad, who is mostly absent from her life, so that complicates stuff).
any ideas on how i can woo her back (she does not want to quit school)? do i immerse myself in her world to the extent she'll let me and build up our relationship? i can see myself finding joy in sharing interests with her, and i want to embrace her and her world, but if i am totally honest i find myself wanting her to have different interests. i don't value many of the things she likes, like current fashion trends, her taste in music or TV shows, her interest in makeup, hair and appearances and whatever else is popular right now... (gah, i feel like such an old fart!) which i of course realize is unaccepting and therefore disconnecting. i can see that i am judgmental, so i am sure she senses that too.
i want to prioritize my relationship with her so we can connect and hopefully stay close as she enters her later teens and adulthood, but i don't know exactly how to find common ground. how do i get past my disdain for some of those things that she is into, so i can connect with her on her terms?
any ideas on this topic?
i have recently become painfully aware of how difficult it is to find real quality time to spend with my 14 yo. since she goes to school and has all these things she wants to do with her friends after school i feel like i rarely have time with her. she is very peer oriented and in the popular clique at school (so weird to me since i was always a bit of a social misfit myself) and constantly texting and talking on the phone with her friends. hanging out with mom/younger siblings isn't interesting to her. it feels like she is a bit disconnected from the rest of the family (she also has a different dad, who is mostly absent from her life, so that complicates stuff).
any ideas on how i can woo her back (she does not want to quit school)? do i immerse myself in her world to the extent she'll let me and build up our relationship? i can see myself finding joy in sharing interests with her, and i want to embrace her and her world, but if i am totally honest i find myself wanting her to have different interests. i don't value many of the things she likes, like current fashion trends, her taste in music or TV shows, her interest in makeup, hair and appearances and whatever else is popular right now... (gah, i feel like such an old fart!) which i of course realize is unaccepting and therefore disconnecting. i can see that i am judgmental, so i am sure she senses that too.
i want to prioritize my relationship with her so we can connect and hopefully stay close as she enters her later teens and adulthood, but i don't know exactly how to find common ground. how do i get past my disdain for some of those things that she is into, so i can connect with her on her terms?
any ideas on this topic?
[email protected]
That's a hard one. I can only share with you what my parents did (who brought in 11 teenage foster-girls - I was the only biological) and what I do with my step-kids (15 and 13) and bio 13 year old daughter.
One of things I remember most which my Mom did was be there when I needed her. I was a very mouthy/bratty teen (we are best friends now, btw). Whenever I was up late studying or anxious and couldn't sleep, she'd make me a glass of warm milk, bring it to me silently and leave a little encouraging note-an I love or or I believe in you, whatever. Knowing she was there was like having a strong bedrock beneath me. Sometimes, she'd stay up with me all night then give me a free pass to go in or not go in the next day while she went to work.
Although I was angry (part of he age) I knew she was there. I now do this with my teens and finds it works. I realize that costumes (hair, makeup, etc_ are just that. If they won't matter when she's 5 yrs older I don't say anything. My sd likes to wear really short skirts (bum showing). She's in the top clique-cheerleader. Our compromise was cheer spanks underneath. She's going to either wear it with my support or feel like she's going against us and in that moment feel she won but consequently feel we don't support her.
Hang in there. Judge less, love more. "Date" her-cards, I love you/thinking of you gifts under her door, a gentle I'm here for you timed right. She's searching for herself away from you. It's like when they were learning how to walk-they'd stagger away, hang onto something, walk away, look back and maybe even yell at you if you started to come toward her to pick her up. Let her walk and be there to pick her up, without judgement, when she falls.
My father gave me the following advice for dealing with 12 teenage daughters: be deaf/dumb/blind as long as it won't kill them. That way, you both survive. :)
It works for us with 2 in public school, 2 homeschooled (10th, 2 in 7th 1 in preschool).
Good luck!!!!
Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�
-----Original Message-----
From: "rubixscuba" <rebecca@...>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 10:21:51
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] connecting with your always schooled teen
i could use some help figuring out how someone who is new to unschooling ideas/discovering unschooling "late" can find a way to make it work with an older child/teen who has always gone to school and actually loves it?
i have recently become painfully aware of how difficult it is to find real quality time to spend with my 14 yo. since she goes to school and has all these things she wants to do with her friends after school i feel like i rarely have time with her. she is very peer oriented and in the popular clique at school (so weird to me since i was always a bit of a social misfit myself) and constantly texting and talking on the phone with her friends. hanging out with mom/younger siblings isn't interesting to her. it feels like she is a bit disconnected from the rest of the family (she also has a different dad, who is mostly absent from her life, so that complicates stuff).
any ideas on how i can woo her back (she does not want to quit school)? do i immerse myself in her world to the extent she'll let me and build up our relationship? i can see myself finding joy in sharing interests with her, and i want to embrace her and her world, but if i am totally honest i find myself wanting her to have different interests. i don't value many of the things she likes, like current fashion trends, her taste in music or TV shows, her interest in makeup, hair and appearances and whatever else is popular right now... (gah, i feel like such an old fart!) which i of course realize is unaccepting and therefore disconnecting. i can see that i am judgmental, so i am sure she senses that too.
i want to prioritize my relationship with her so we can connect and hopefully stay close as she enters her later teens and adulthood, but i don't know exactly how to find common ground. how do i get past my disdain for some of those things that she is into, so i can connect with her on her terms?
any ideas on this topic?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One of things I remember most which my Mom did was be there when I needed her. I was a very mouthy/bratty teen (we are best friends now, btw). Whenever I was up late studying or anxious and couldn't sleep, she'd make me a glass of warm milk, bring it to me silently and leave a little encouraging note-an I love or or I believe in you, whatever. Knowing she was there was like having a strong bedrock beneath me. Sometimes, she'd stay up with me all night then give me a free pass to go in or not go in the next day while she went to work.
Although I was angry (part of he age) I knew she was there. I now do this with my teens and finds it works. I realize that costumes (hair, makeup, etc_ are just that. If they won't matter when she's 5 yrs older I don't say anything. My sd likes to wear really short skirts (bum showing). She's in the top clique-cheerleader. Our compromise was cheer spanks underneath. She's going to either wear it with my support or feel like she's going against us and in that moment feel she won but consequently feel we don't support her.
Hang in there. Judge less, love more. "Date" her-cards, I love you/thinking of you gifts under her door, a gentle I'm here for you timed right. She's searching for herself away from you. It's like when they were learning how to walk-they'd stagger away, hang onto something, walk away, look back and maybe even yell at you if you started to come toward her to pick her up. Let her walk and be there to pick her up, without judgement, when she falls.
My father gave me the following advice for dealing with 12 teenage daughters: be deaf/dumb/blind as long as it won't kill them. That way, you both survive. :)
It works for us with 2 in public school, 2 homeschooled (10th, 2 in 7th 1 in preschool).
Good luck!!!!
Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�
-----Original Message-----
From: "rubixscuba" <rebecca@...>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 10:21:51
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] connecting with your always schooled teen
i could use some help figuring out how someone who is new to unschooling ideas/discovering unschooling "late" can find a way to make it work with an older child/teen who has always gone to school and actually loves it?
i have recently become painfully aware of how difficult it is to find real quality time to spend with my 14 yo. since she goes to school and has all these things she wants to do with her friends after school i feel like i rarely have time with her. she is very peer oriented and in the popular clique at school (so weird to me since i was always a bit of a social misfit myself) and constantly texting and talking on the phone with her friends. hanging out with mom/younger siblings isn't interesting to her. it feels like she is a bit disconnected from the rest of the family (she also has a different dad, who is mostly absent from her life, so that complicates stuff).
any ideas on how i can woo her back (she does not want to quit school)? do i immerse myself in her world to the extent she'll let me and build up our relationship? i can see myself finding joy in sharing interests with her, and i want to embrace her and her world, but if i am totally honest i find myself wanting her to have different interests. i don't value many of the things she likes, like current fashion trends, her taste in music or TV shows, her interest in makeup, hair and appearances and whatever else is popular right now... (gah, i feel like such an old fart!) which i of course realize is unaccepting and therefore disconnecting. i can see that i am judgmental, so i am sure she senses that too.
i want to prioritize my relationship with her so we can connect and hopefully stay close as she enters her later teens and adulthood, but i don't know exactly how to find common ground. how do i get past my disdain for some of those things that she is into, so i can connect with her on her terms?
any ideas on this topic?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Why would anyone want to share their life and their interests with someone who
doesn't find any value in them? Maybe you can start by assuming that anything
she values must be valuable. Maybe you can see something as being imbued with
value just by her interest in it. I've done that a fair bit with Simon and
Linnaea. When you see her pick out an outfit you wouldn't choose, watch her
face, watch her joy. Think about things that you value that others may have
disliked and how much pleasure your own choices has given you.
Your daughter values school and social time and her relationships with her
friends. Those things have absolute value as well as personal value. She values
aesthetics in fashion. She likes the raiments of a more popular culture than
maybe you do. Those are all things that can be understood without too much
effort. Look for the smaller pieces you enjoy in each of her choices that you
might not make personally. Maybe just enjoy the fact that her life is not a
carbon copy of your own. She is embracing different aspects of the world than
you chose to, that's pretty cool. And a lot of the things that you are
dismissing as fads, like appearance, have been important for humans, among other
species, for a very, very long time.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: rubixscuba <rebecca@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 14 March, 2011 10:21:51
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] connecting with your always schooled teen
i could use some help figuring out how someone who is new to unschooling
ideas/discovering unschooling "late" can find a way to make it work with an
older child/teen who has always gone to school and actually loves it?
i have recently become painfully aware of how difficult it is to find real
quality time to spend with my 14 yo. since she goes to school and has all these
things she wants to do with her friends after school i feel like i rarely have
time with her. she is very peer oriented and in the popular clique at school (so
weird to me since i was always a bit of a social misfit myself) and constantly
texting and talking on the phone with her friends. hanging out with mom/younger
siblings isn't interesting to her. it feels like she is a bit disconnected from
the rest of the family (she also has a different dad, who is mostly absent from
her life, so that complicates stuff).
any ideas on how i can woo her back (she does not want to quit school)? do i
immerse myself in her world to the extent she'll let me and build up our
relationship? i can see myself finding joy in sharing interests with her, and i
want to embrace her and her world, but if i am totally honest i find myself
wanting her to have different interests. i don't value many of the things she
likes, like current fashion trends, her taste in music or TV shows, her interest
in makeup, hair and appearances and whatever else is popular right now... (gah,
i feel like such an old fart!) which i of course realize is unaccepting and
therefore disconnecting. i can see that i am judgmental, so i am sure she senses
that too.
i want to prioritize my relationship with her so we can connect and hopefully
stay close as she enters her later teens and adulthood, but i don't know exactly
how to find common ground. how do i get past my disdain for some of those things
that she is into, so i can connect with her on her terms?
any ideas on this topic?
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
doesn't find any value in them? Maybe you can start by assuming that anything
she values must be valuable. Maybe you can see something as being imbued with
value just by her interest in it. I've done that a fair bit with Simon and
Linnaea. When you see her pick out an outfit you wouldn't choose, watch her
face, watch her joy. Think about things that you value that others may have
disliked and how much pleasure your own choices has given you.
Your daughter values school and social time and her relationships with her
friends. Those things have absolute value as well as personal value. She values
aesthetics in fashion. She likes the raiments of a more popular culture than
maybe you do. Those are all things that can be understood without too much
effort. Look for the smaller pieces you enjoy in each of her choices that you
might not make personally. Maybe just enjoy the fact that her life is not a
carbon copy of your own. She is embracing different aspects of the world than
you chose to, that's pretty cool. And a lot of the things that you are
dismissing as fads, like appearance, have been important for humans, among other
species, for a very, very long time.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: rubixscuba <rebecca@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 14 March, 2011 10:21:51
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] connecting with your always schooled teen
i could use some help figuring out how someone who is new to unschooling
ideas/discovering unschooling "late" can find a way to make it work with an
older child/teen who has always gone to school and actually loves it?
i have recently become painfully aware of how difficult it is to find real
quality time to spend with my 14 yo. since she goes to school and has all these
things she wants to do with her friends after school i feel like i rarely have
time with her. she is very peer oriented and in the popular clique at school (so
weird to me since i was always a bit of a social misfit myself) and constantly
texting and talking on the phone with her friends. hanging out with mom/younger
siblings isn't interesting to her. it feels like she is a bit disconnected from
the rest of the family (she also has a different dad, who is mostly absent from
her life, so that complicates stuff).
any ideas on how i can woo her back (she does not want to quit school)? do i
immerse myself in her world to the extent she'll let me and build up our
relationship? i can see myself finding joy in sharing interests with her, and i
want to embrace her and her world, but if i am totally honest i find myself
wanting her to have different interests. i don't value many of the things she
likes, like current fashion trends, her taste in music or TV shows, her interest
in makeup, hair and appearances and whatever else is popular right now... (gah,
i feel like such an old fart!) which i of course realize is unaccepting and
therefore disconnecting. i can see that i am judgmental, so i am sure she senses
that too.
i want to prioritize my relationship with her so we can connect and hopefully
stay close as she enters her later teens and adulthood, but i don't know exactly
how to find common ground. how do i get past my disdain for some of those things
that she is into, so i can connect with her on her terms?
any ideas on this topic?
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"rubixscuba" <rebecca@...> wrote:
Wanting her to have different interests is like wanting her to be another person - not a great basis for a relationship. If you want to embrace her and her world, you'll need to move past that and develop an appreciation of what she sees and loves. Not that you'll have to love those things, necessarily, but go beyond tolerating them to seeing what she finds marvelous.
My daughter loves physical comedy. I don't, but I've done a bit of research into what makes physical comedy "work" and have come to appreciate when its done skillfully, either by live performers or in animation.
My stepson loves death metal (music). I can barely hear it - I mean the way its usually played sounds like static to me. But I've found some northern European bands who play popular heavy metal as classical pieces so that I could actually hear and apprecite the music, then found a related genre (epic folk metal - think Lord of the Rings with electric guitars) which is "musical" enough for me and "heavy" enough for him.
---Meredith
>> any ideas on how i can woo her back (she does not want to quit school)? do i immerse myself in her world to the extent she'll let me and build up our relationship? i can see myself finding joy in sharing interests with her, and i want to embrace her and her world, but if i am totally honest i find myself wanting her to have different interests.**************
Wanting her to have different interests is like wanting her to be another person - not a great basis for a relationship. If you want to embrace her and her world, you'll need to move past that and develop an appreciation of what she sees and loves. Not that you'll have to love those things, necessarily, but go beyond tolerating them to seeing what she finds marvelous.
My daughter loves physical comedy. I don't, but I've done a bit of research into what makes physical comedy "work" and have come to appreciate when its done skillfully, either by live performers or in animation.
My stepson loves death metal (music). I can barely hear it - I mean the way its usually played sounds like static to me. But I've found some northern European bands who play popular heavy metal as classical pieces so that I could actually hear and apprecite the music, then found a related genre (epic folk metal - think Lord of the Rings with electric guitars) which is "musical" enough for me and "heavy" enough for him.
>>constantly texting and talking on the phone with her friendsDo you text? That could be a place to start connecting more. It may seem counter-intuitive, but younger people have a different approach to technology than older generations and see it more as a tool for connection. Don't disparage that (things ain't what they used to be!) use it to reach out.
---Meredith
aldq75
Sandra has a lot of information about teens compiled on her site:
http://sandradodd.com/teen/
My oldest just turned 17. We share some common interests, but she enjoys a lot of things that I do not. So, I keep looking for common ground and a way to support/be involved with whatever it is. As others have said, I try to focus on her joy, not my opinion of whatever it is.
Specific examples:
I follow some of her favorite bands on twitter so I know when new albums are coming out and other news.
By observing the types of clothes she picks out for herself I have gotten pretty good at choosing/suggesting things (shirts and accessories/makeup/nail polish) that go with her style.
I look for deals and coupons that she might be interested in and we go shopping together for makeup/hair dye (even though I don't use either).
When she needs clothes, I make it a point to leave her siblings at home so that I can focus on her and so she doesn't feel rushed while shopping.
I support her art in whatever way I can (supplies, scanning, printing, framing, etc).
I reply to some of her tweets/facebook posts and email her links that she might like.
I learned some quotes from her favorite movies and try to use them when appropriate. She's better at it than I am, but I'm learning :)
I cook food that she likes. If she suggests something specific, I try to make it as soon as I have all of the ingredients to do so.
Andrea Q
http://sandradodd.com/teen/
My oldest just turned 17. We share some common interests, but she enjoys a lot of things that I do not. So, I keep looking for common ground and a way to support/be involved with whatever it is. As others have said, I try to focus on her joy, not my opinion of whatever it is.
Specific examples:
I follow some of her favorite bands on twitter so I know when new albums are coming out and other news.
By observing the types of clothes she picks out for herself I have gotten pretty good at choosing/suggesting things (shirts and accessories/makeup/nail polish) that go with her style.
I look for deals and coupons that she might be interested in and we go shopping together for makeup/hair dye (even though I don't use either).
When she needs clothes, I make it a point to leave her siblings at home so that I can focus on her and so she doesn't feel rushed while shopping.
I support her art in whatever way I can (supplies, scanning, printing, framing, etc).
I reply to some of her tweets/facebook posts and email her links that she might like.
I learned some quotes from her favorite movies and try to use them when appropriate. She's better at it than I am, but I'm learning :)
I cook food that she likes. If she suggests something specific, I try to make it as soon as I have all of the ingredients to do so.
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], "rubixscuba" <rebecca@...> wrote:
>
> i could use some help figuring out how someone who is new to unschooling ideas/discovering unschooling "late" can find a way to make it work with an older child/teen who has always gone to school and actually loves it?
Sandra Dodd
-=-i could use some help figuring out how someone who is new to unschooling ideas/discovering unschooling "late" can find a way to make it work with an older child/teen who has always gone to school and actually loves it?-=-
This is an interesting question.
The crux of it is the "it" in "find a way to make it work."
If "it" is unschooling, it can't be made to work if she's happily ensconced in school. Nor should it! If she's liking where she is and isn't having trouble, then that's her priority and probably should be!
-=-any ideas on how i can woo her back (she does not want to quit school)? do i immerse myself in her world to the extent she'll let me and build up our relationship?-=-
The popular clique at school won't want you in it.
-=- i can see myself finding joy in sharing interests with her, and i want to embrace her and her world, but if i am totally honest i find myself wanting her to have different interests. i don't value many of the things she likes, like current fashion trends, her taste in music or TV shows, her interest in makeup, hair and appearances and whatever else is popular right now... (gah, i feel like such an old fart!) which i of course realize is unaccepting and therefore disconnecting. i can see that i am judgmental, so i am sure she senses that too. -=-
Given a choice between people who accept and appreciate you and text you and talk to you on the phone every day, and someone who doesn't like your makeup, hair, fashions, music and favorite TV shows.... which would ANYONE choose?
-=-i want to prioritize my relationship with her so we can connect and hopefully stay close as she enters her later teens and adulthood, but i don't know exactly how to find common ground. how do i get past my disdain for some of those things that she is into, so i can connect with her on her terms? -=-
The best thoughts I have are partly dependent on a couple of issues: Can your family afford a vacation? and how does she get along with her step-dad?
If the other children are older (old enough to be left at home with dad), maybe you and your oldest daughter could go on a vacation. If they're still little, maybe you and your daughter could plan a family vacation. Let her to a lot of the planning and decisionmaking. Let her be a star, rather than a childcare assistant. Being away from the house and away from the school might give you some time to create new shared memories. It wouldn't be a magical turning point, but it would be a big step toward having a relationship with her. Don't criticize her while you're on vacation if she wants to listen to her own music sometimes, or dress as she wants to, or text her friends, though. If your plan is to isolate her, she might not even want to go.
Another idea I have is maybe to tell her, either on a long car ride where it's just the two of you, or in writing, maybe, that you wish your relationship could have been different, that you wish you knew then what you know now, or whatever it is you wish. She might not respond immediately, but the ideas and the sentiments will be inside her, for her to process when and as she can.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is an interesting question.
The crux of it is the "it" in "find a way to make it work."
If "it" is unschooling, it can't be made to work if she's happily ensconced in school. Nor should it! If she's liking where she is and isn't having trouble, then that's her priority and probably should be!
-=-any ideas on how i can woo her back (she does not want to quit school)? do i immerse myself in her world to the extent she'll let me and build up our relationship?-=-
The popular clique at school won't want you in it.
-=- i can see myself finding joy in sharing interests with her, and i want to embrace her and her world, but if i am totally honest i find myself wanting her to have different interests. i don't value many of the things she likes, like current fashion trends, her taste in music or TV shows, her interest in makeup, hair and appearances and whatever else is popular right now... (gah, i feel like such an old fart!) which i of course realize is unaccepting and therefore disconnecting. i can see that i am judgmental, so i am sure she senses that too. -=-
Given a choice between people who accept and appreciate you and text you and talk to you on the phone every day, and someone who doesn't like your makeup, hair, fashions, music and favorite TV shows.... which would ANYONE choose?
-=-i want to prioritize my relationship with her so we can connect and hopefully stay close as she enters her later teens and adulthood, but i don't know exactly how to find common ground. how do i get past my disdain for some of those things that she is into, so i can connect with her on her terms? -=-
The best thoughts I have are partly dependent on a couple of issues: Can your family afford a vacation? and how does she get along with her step-dad?
If the other children are older (old enough to be left at home with dad), maybe you and your oldest daughter could go on a vacation. If they're still little, maybe you and your daughter could plan a family vacation. Let her to a lot of the planning and decisionmaking. Let her be a star, rather than a childcare assistant. Being away from the house and away from the school might give you some time to create new shared memories. It wouldn't be a magical turning point, but it would be a big step toward having a relationship with her. Don't criticize her while you're on vacation if she wants to listen to her own music sometimes, or dress as she wants to, or text her friends, though. If your plan is to isolate her, she might not even want to go.
Another idea I have is maybe to tell her, either on a long car ride where it's just the two of you, or in writing, maybe, that you wish your relationship could have been different, that you wish you knew then what you know now, or whatever it is you wish. She might not respond immediately, but the ideas and the sentiments will be inside her, for her to process when and as she can.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Consider that the negativity you feel about your daughter's tastes is
yours, not at all hers, and that the negativity doesn't have to do
with any of the choices your daughter makes. The negativity is inside
you.
Sometimes negativity is based on worrying about safety, etc. and often
it's just plain old negative jibes. Parenting with personal little
packets of negativity in key areas might make it so that when
something is dangerous, your subtle negative background "noise" drowns
out stronger signals of concern. And on the basis that you aren't
hearing your daughter, she won't hear you.
Surprise yourself! Until having a son who is into games, I considered
myself a "book" person not a gamer type. Karl talks a lot about
Minecraft and also other games. A new addition is Magicka. I don't
keep up with every last thing but I know a lot more than I would if I
left him to his own devices. At first, I didn't care for Minecraft
much but very quickly I found a lot to like and I play it too.
And I have branched out into connecting with other children in
extended family. I just talked on the phone yesterday with a 15 year
old homeschooled nephew who told me about greyhounds, how they're
raised and treated in order to make them racers, their particular
strengths and fragilities. And we talked about a lot of other things
too. And I was the "cat" person, I thought, with lots of negative
experience with dogs. Surprise, again.
I feel that I'm a much different person from the one I used to be. I
hope I feel like that every year.
There are things I love that few people I know have much interest for.
I can still enjoy them but it's nice to be able to talk a bit about
them to people whose interest it isn't, who are just interested in me.
If someone can't ever sustain much conversation about something I like
that they aren't into, I might sometimes wonder if it's ME they don't
like.
You hop a ride on "fads" and passing "fancies" while they lead the way
to your daughter. And if her interests are temporary and you also lose
touch with her, then how will you know where to even begin? My folks
will probably NEVER know. That one little thing has been very hard for
me at times. Another thing I'm not passing down to Karl.
And in your case, you have others standing by to share those interests
with your daughter. That's a help if you really CAN'T get much into
what she's into. But nobody else can replace her mom or determine the
quality of your connection being made now. Facilitate her interests.
This is normal development during the teen years, to make decisions of
one's own and to step outside of parental spheres of influence and try
things out. And if it is still ok and doesn't rock the relationship,
it will a) not automatically offend people she's close to or have them
one-upping her by taking decisions from her and thus b) it will
probably be less traumatic if there actually are consequences to deal
with. Realize that such outcomes are choices not forgone conclusions.
~Katherine
yours, not at all hers, and that the negativity doesn't have to do
with any of the choices your daughter makes. The negativity is inside
you.
Sometimes negativity is based on worrying about safety, etc. and often
it's just plain old negative jibes. Parenting with personal little
packets of negativity in key areas might make it so that when
something is dangerous, your subtle negative background "noise" drowns
out stronger signals of concern. And on the basis that you aren't
hearing your daughter, she won't hear you.
Surprise yourself! Until having a son who is into games, I considered
myself a "book" person not a gamer type. Karl talks a lot about
Minecraft and also other games. A new addition is Magicka. I don't
keep up with every last thing but I know a lot more than I would if I
left him to his own devices. At first, I didn't care for Minecraft
much but very quickly I found a lot to like and I play it too.
And I have branched out into connecting with other children in
extended family. I just talked on the phone yesterday with a 15 year
old homeschooled nephew who told me about greyhounds, how they're
raised and treated in order to make them racers, their particular
strengths and fragilities. And we talked about a lot of other things
too. And I was the "cat" person, I thought, with lots of negative
experience with dogs. Surprise, again.
I feel that I'm a much different person from the one I used to be. I
hope I feel like that every year.
There are things I love that few people I know have much interest for.
I can still enjoy them but it's nice to be able to talk a bit about
them to people whose interest it isn't, who are just interested in me.
If someone can't ever sustain much conversation about something I like
that they aren't into, I might sometimes wonder if it's ME they don't
like.
You hop a ride on "fads" and passing "fancies" while they lead the way
to your daughter. And if her interests are temporary and you also lose
touch with her, then how will you know where to even begin? My folks
will probably NEVER know. That one little thing has been very hard for
me at times. Another thing I'm not passing down to Karl.
And in your case, you have others standing by to share those interests
with your daughter. That's a help if you really CAN'T get much into
what she's into. But nobody else can replace her mom or determine the
quality of your connection being made now. Facilitate her interests.
This is normal development during the teen years, to make decisions of
one's own and to step outside of parental spheres of influence and try
things out. And if it is still ok and doesn't rock the relationship,
it will a) not automatically offend people she's close to or have them
one-upping her by taking decisions from her and thus b) it will
probably be less traumatic if there actually are consequences to deal
with. Realize that such outcomes are choices not forgone conclusions.
~Katherine
aldq75
-=- My father gave me the following advice for dealing with 12 teenage daughters: be
deaf/dumb/blind as long as it won't kill them. That way, you both survive. :) -=-
If your goal is only to survive the teen years, then maybe this advice will work, but I don't see how it can help a parent build a better relationship with their child. Taken literally, it implies that things like shop lifting, stealing from family/friends, lying, being rude, tagging/vandalism and being cruel to animals are alright. It suggests that parents shouldn't try to be more than minimally involved in the lives of their teens.
Andrea Q
deaf/dumb/blind as long as it won't kill them. That way, you both survive. :) -=-
If your goal is only to survive the teen years, then maybe this advice will work, but I don't see how it can help a parent build a better relationship with their child. Taken literally, it implies that things like shop lifting, stealing from family/friends, lying, being rude, tagging/vandalism and being cruel to animals are alright. It suggests that parents shouldn't try to be more than minimally involved in the lives of their teens.
Andrea Q
k
I also wondered if the twelve daughters were teens simultaneously, in
which case they would very likely lack for attention which they would
crave from parents at any age. I'm thinking the ages were more spread
out than that though.
And I don't think playing ignorant is even a sound idea for survival.
Preferably unschooling is much more than just surviving. A parent who
wants to raise a schoolchild with unschooly leanings would want to be
aware and to let it show sometimes. If the parents are busy ignoring
stuff, the thought for the child might be to go around ignoring stuff
rather than alive to what's going on and actively involved in making
good decisions for themselves.
~Katherine
which case they would very likely lack for attention which they would
crave from parents at any age. I'm thinking the ages were more spread
out than that though.
And I don't think playing ignorant is even a sound idea for survival.
Preferably unschooling is much more than just surviving. A parent who
wants to raise a schoolchild with unschooly leanings would want to be
aware and to let it show sometimes. If the parents are busy ignoring
stuff, the thought for the child might be to go around ignoring stuff
rather than alive to what's going on and actively involved in making
good decisions for themselves.
~Katherine
On 3/14/11, aldq75 <aldq75@...> wrote:
>
> -=- My father gave me the following advice for dealing with 12 teenage
> daughters: be
> deaf/dumb/blind as long as it won't kill them. That way, you both survive.
> :) -=-
>
> If your goal is only to survive the teen years, then maybe this advice will
> work, but I don't see how it can help a parent build a better relationship
> with their child. Taken literally, it implies that things like shop lifting,
> stealing from family/friends, lying, being rude, tagging/vandalism and being
> cruel to animals are alright. It suggests that parents shouldn't try to be
> more than minimally involved in the lives of their teens.
>
> Andrea Q
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
bobcatpris2000
-== I have recently become painfully aware of how difficult it is to find real quality time to spend with my 14 yo. since she goes to school and has all these things she wants to do with her friends after school i feel like i rarely have time with her. she is very peer oriented and in the popular clique at school ==-
I have been reading John Holt's currently out of print book "Escape From Childhood: The Needs and Rights of Children" (1974) and looked this quote up because it jumped out at me when I first came across it.
Holt says in "Escape From Childhood":
"...one reason why teenagers seem to be so preoccupied with such things [he had just mentioned their personal, emotional, and social lives] is that we do not allow them to be preoccupied with much of anything else." p.160
------------------
Peer oriented kids seem to go to school more to socialize than to learn. They can lose a lot of their individuality, their creativity and curiosity trying to fit in with their group. Sadly, maybe they have already lost their love of learning.
Parents might want to check their own behaviours. Are children clear on what their parents' values are? Are parents saying one thing and living another? Do the parents live/value the same peer oriented behaviours that they are criticizing in their own children? Are they buying things and doing things to keep up with "the Joneses"?
Maybe parents who want to reconnect with their teens could find something to do that is part of the larger world, like volunteering at an animal shelter (animals!) or food bank or kitchen (cooking!), or collecting items for teen shelters (clothes!).
Prisclla Sanstead
I have been reading John Holt's currently out of print book "Escape From Childhood: The Needs and Rights of Children" (1974) and looked this quote up because it jumped out at me when I first came across it.
Holt says in "Escape From Childhood":
"...one reason why teenagers seem to be so preoccupied with such things [he had just mentioned their personal, emotional, and social lives] is that we do not allow them to be preoccupied with much of anything else." p.160
------------------
Peer oriented kids seem to go to school more to socialize than to learn. They can lose a lot of their individuality, their creativity and curiosity trying to fit in with their group. Sadly, maybe they have already lost their love of learning.
Parents might want to check their own behaviours. Are children clear on what their parents' values are? Are parents saying one thing and living another? Do the parents live/value the same peer oriented behaviours that they are criticizing in their own children? Are they buying things and doing things to keep up with "the Joneses"?
Maybe parents who want to reconnect with their teens could find something to do that is part of the larger world, like volunteering at an animal shelter (animals!) or food bank or kitchen (cooking!), or collecting items for teen shelters (clothes!).
Prisclla Sanstead
k
Correction: I want to add the word "being" to the following so that it
makes sense. Pardon any confusion.
makes sense. Pardon any confusion.
>>>If the parents are busy ignoring stuff, the thought for the child might be to go around ignoring stuff rather than -being- alive to what's going on and actively involved in making good decisions for themselves.<<<~Katherine
plaidpanties666
"bobcatpris2000" <bobcatpris2000@...> wrote:
That's a false dichotomy - people can and do learn from other people. It might be more accurate to say that people with a lot of interpersonal intelligence learn more from social interactions at school than they do from the curriculum.
It may be helpful for a parent who is wondering how to connect with a very social teen to look for ways to be more social with her - not just look for ways to socialize but work on communicating in a way that's more sociable. Parents can easily fall into a pattern where virtually all their interactions with their kids are a kind of teaching - even chit chat has imbedded lessons about this or that. Part of deschooling for parents is moving away from that kind of relationship and learning how to act like a friend. That's important with any kid, but all the more so with a kid who is very tuned in to social nuances.
They're less likely to do that if they aren't stuck with just one group. School tends to pigeon hole kids into smaller groups, but parents can contribute to that, too. Putting down a young person's interests most often leads to that person clinging to his or her interests all the harder - and *that* does more to lock a young person in to one group than being a member of the group.
Adults also frame those kinds of interests in very negative way for teens, but frame those same interests in a positive light for adults. Its *noble* for adults to be concerned with issues of social justice, emotional and personal well-being, but when a teen is exploring those issues in the real (if narrow) world of school, its all just trivia.
Unschooling kids have the advantage of a wider world in which to explore big ideas about society and personal growth and - hopefully! - parents who are being supportive of those interests.
Do you mean suggest sharing those things with their teens or go off and "set a good example"? That's not clear.
It's good for parents to flip that idea around and see that seemingly small interests can and do tie in to the larger world and trust that your teen isn't oblivious to those connections, even if she's (or he's) not sharing those insights with you just now.
---Meredith
>> Peer oriented kids seem to go to school more to socialize than to learn.******************
That's a false dichotomy - people can and do learn from other people. It might be more accurate to say that people with a lot of interpersonal intelligence learn more from social interactions at school than they do from the curriculum.
It may be helpful for a parent who is wondering how to connect with a very social teen to look for ways to be more social with her - not just look for ways to socialize but work on communicating in a way that's more sociable. Parents can easily fall into a pattern where virtually all their interactions with their kids are a kind of teaching - even chit chat has imbedded lessons about this or that. Part of deschooling for parents is moving away from that kind of relationship and learning how to act like a friend. That's important with any kid, but all the more so with a kid who is very tuned in to social nuances.
>> They can lose a lot of their individuality, their creativity and curiosity trying to fit in with their group.****************
They're less likely to do that if they aren't stuck with just one group. School tends to pigeon hole kids into smaller groups, but parents can contribute to that, too. Putting down a young person's interests most often leads to that person clinging to his or her interests all the harder - and *that* does more to lock a young person in to one group than being a member of the group.
> Holt says in "Escape From Childhood":****************
>
> "...one reason why teenagers seem to be so preoccupied with such things [he had just mentioned their personal, emotional, and social lives] is that we do not allow them to be preoccupied with much of anything else." p.160
Adults also frame those kinds of interests in very negative way for teens, but frame those same interests in a positive light for adults. Its *noble* for adults to be concerned with issues of social justice, emotional and personal well-being, but when a teen is exploring those issues in the real (if narrow) world of school, its all just trivia.
Unschooling kids have the advantage of a wider world in which to explore big ideas about society and personal growth and - hopefully! - parents who are being supportive of those interests.
> Maybe parents who want to reconnect with their teens could find something to do that is part of the larger world, like volunteering at an animal shelter (animals!) or food bank or kitchen (cooking!), or collecting items for teen shelters (clothes!).*******************
Do you mean suggest sharing those things with their teens or go off and "set a good example"? That's not clear.
It's good for parents to flip that idea around and see that seemingly small interests can and do tie in to the larger world and trust that your teen isn't oblivious to those connections, even if she's (or he's) not sharing those insights with you just now.
---Meredith
k
>>>Maybe parents who want to reconnect with their teens could find something to do that is part of the larger world, like volunteering at an animal shelter (animals!) or food bank or kitchen (cooking!), or collecting items for teen shelters (clothes!).<<<I think these are great things to be interested in. Sure. But so are
clothes designs, makeup, decor, decorum, and all kinds of other
cosmetics for all kinds of looks.
Sometimes, it seems to me that the awareness of an interest one
doesn't share might sometimes be overshadowed with bafflement about
why the interest exists. Which is good reason to respect your
children's interests *especially* if you don't share them.
~Katherine
Sandra Dodd
-=-The conversations in the car are fascinating! Just be a good listener, unless one of the kids asks you something. It's amazing how few of these kids have an adult to talk to, and they will seek you out. You'll have a great window into your daughter's life with her friends and you'll have that last leg of the trip after dropping the last kid off to talk alone.-=-
YES!
I brought Meg's post here (to this thread) so it wouldn't be orphaned off in it's own "unknown" topic.
I meant to leave this link the first time I responded:
http://sandradodd.com/truck
When Kirby started driving himself, I really missed the times I drove him to karate, hung out for an hour, and brought him home. We knew each other more because of those drives in those years than anything else.
Sandra
From: M Walker <RansomeNote@...>
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] (unknown)
Date: March 15, 2011 2:47:11 PM MDT
To: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
Be the Mom who makes things possible. My always-unschooled daughter went to high school in 10th grade and now she's in 11th. Be willing to drive a carload of kids whenever there's an event. You can bring a book and hang out unobtrusively, or find somewhere nearby to get coffee, or even go home and go back to pick them all up if another parent won't share the driving.
My daughter has been amazed at how few parents will drive and facilitate their kids' participation in events. Sometimes, there are events at school and kids are dropped off with no idea of how they'll get home! We have a standing agreement with our daughter that she can offer anyone a ride home, doesn't even need to call and ask.
The conversations in the car are fascinating! Just be a good listener, unless one of the kids asks you something. It's amazing how few of these kids have an adult to talk to, and they will seek you out. You'll have a great window into your daughter's life with her friends and you'll have that last leg of the trip after dropping the last kid off to talk alone.
- Meg
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
YES!
I brought Meg's post here (to this thread) so it wouldn't be orphaned off in it's own "unknown" topic.
I meant to leave this link the first time I responded:
http://sandradodd.com/truck
When Kirby started driving himself, I really missed the times I drove him to karate, hung out for an hour, and brought him home. We knew each other more because of those drives in those years than anything else.
Sandra
From: M Walker <RansomeNote@...>
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] (unknown)
Date: March 15, 2011 2:47:11 PM MDT
To: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
Be the Mom who makes things possible. My always-unschooled daughter went to high school in 10th grade and now she's in 11th. Be willing to drive a carload of kids whenever there's an event. You can bring a book and hang out unobtrusively, or find somewhere nearby to get coffee, or even go home and go back to pick them all up if another parent won't share the driving.
My daughter has been amazed at how few parents will drive and facilitate their kids' participation in events. Sometimes, there are events at school and kids are dropped off with no idea of how they'll get home! We have a standing agreement with our daughter that she can offer anyone a ride home, doesn't even need to call and ask.
The conversations in the car are fascinating! Just be a good listener, unless one of the kids asks you something. It's amazing how few of these kids have an adult to talk to, and they will seek you out. You'll have a great window into your daughter's life with her friends and you'll have that last leg of the trip after dropping the last kid off to talk alone.
- Meg
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***My daughter has been amazed at how few parents will drive and facilitate
their kids' participation in events. Sometimes, there are events at school and
kids are dropped off with no idea of how they'll get home!***
It's not a new phenomenon! I've been amazed how many parents just simply won't
drive their kids anywhere. I was telling my mother about it and she said that
was the case when we were young too. I always remember my mom driving us
places, picking up other kids and dropping them back home. I never really
thought about it, it just was the way it was.
I had a conversation with a mom about driving her son home. She seemed to think
it was this great big deal. I told her that driving to and from friend's houses
was part of our homeschooling costs, that it needed to be since her peer group
isn't built around the neighborhood school, but that it's super nice when other
parents share the driving. It still is a big deal to her even though she
drives herself to the mall right by our house to go shopping. She is like so
many other parents of teens, she has this built in idea that teens are somehow
less deserving of rides, or somehow capable of getting themselves to and fro
even without public transportation or cars or driver's licenses.
It's odd, but very very normal. I've had to pleasure to get to know all these
wonderful kids by simply driving, or being available to drive. I get to hear
new music and learn about what goes on at schools and other people's homes.
It's fascinating!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
their kids' participation in events. Sometimes, there are events at school and
kids are dropped off with no idea of how they'll get home!***
It's not a new phenomenon! I've been amazed how many parents just simply won't
drive their kids anywhere. I was telling my mother about it and she said that
was the case when we were young too. I always remember my mom driving us
places, picking up other kids and dropping them back home. I never really
thought about it, it just was the way it was.
I had a conversation with a mom about driving her son home. She seemed to think
it was this great big deal. I told her that driving to and from friend's houses
was part of our homeschooling costs, that it needed to be since her peer group
isn't built around the neighborhood school, but that it's super nice when other
parents share the driving. It still is a big deal to her even though she
drives herself to the mall right by our house to go shopping. She is like so
many other parents of teens, she has this built in idea that teens are somehow
less deserving of rides, or somehow capable of getting themselves to and fro
even without public transportation or cars or driver's licenses.
It's odd, but very very normal. I've had to pleasure to get to know all these
wonderful kids by simply driving, or being available to drive. I get to hear
new music and learn about what goes on at schools and other people's homes.
It's fascinating!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ransomenote
Thanks, Sandra. Don't know what I did wrong; I thought I was replying to this thread.
- Meg
- Meg
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> I brought Meg's post here (to this thread) so it wouldn't be orphaned off in it's own "unknown" topic.
>
k
I don't think you did anything wrong at all. It seems to me that
Sandra simply put your info together with this thread in order to have
the ideas together instead of in two different threads. Maybe when you
replied to the thread, your subject line was changed a bit? Just
enough to put it in a new thread.
~Katherine
Sandra simply put your info together with this thread in order to have
the ideas together instead of in two different threads. Maybe when you
replied to the thread, your subject line was changed a bit? Just
enough to put it in a new thread.
~Katherine
On 3/16/11, ransomenote <RansomeNote@...> wrote:
> Thanks, Sandra. Don't know what I did wrong; I thought I was replying to
> this thread.
>
> - Meg
>
> --- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>> I brought Meg's post here (to this thread) so it wouldn't be orphaned off
>> in it's own "unknown" topic.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>