protecting ourselves
Adrean Clark
Our family moved into a new school district in Minnesota last fall. Since
then several strange events happened. The school district was tipped off
(possibly by our Medicare worker) and since then they have been going around
our backs trying to find ways to "get" to our kids, going as far as to call
our tester and illegally ask for the annual test results. (Minnesota law
says that an annual test must be taken but the results are kept privately.)
We were also paid a visit by a policeman acting on behalf of CPS to
investigate a call that our kids were in danger because the electricity was
"shut off." The cop found this claim to be false the minute he stepped into
our home, and fortunately was supportive of our homeschooling. The anonymous
caller described my husband and I's disabilities accurately. Enough time has
passed for us to recover the shock and betrayal we felt about those events.
We have been working to be sure we follow the law in our home state but this
has made us less likely to trust people.
What can we do to help this situation? I am a mother bear when it comes to
protecting my children and their education, but I am acutely aware of my
"disability" and our unschooling causing others to doubt my competency in
raising my children. I do not want to be bullied into sending my kids to
school, nor do I want to adopt a fearful, reactionary approach with my
kids.
How can we retain our boundaries and protect our children from situations
like this? Any advice?
Adrean
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
then several strange events happened. The school district was tipped off
(possibly by our Medicare worker) and since then they have been going around
our backs trying to find ways to "get" to our kids, going as far as to call
our tester and illegally ask for the annual test results. (Minnesota law
says that an annual test must be taken but the results are kept privately.)
We were also paid a visit by a policeman acting on behalf of CPS to
investigate a call that our kids were in danger because the electricity was
"shut off." The cop found this claim to be false the minute he stepped into
our home, and fortunately was supportive of our homeschooling. The anonymous
caller described my husband and I's disabilities accurately. Enough time has
passed for us to recover the shock and betrayal we felt about those events.
We have been working to be sure we follow the law in our home state but this
has made us less likely to trust people.
What can we do to help this situation? I am a mother bear when it comes to
protecting my children and their education, but I am acutely aware of my
"disability" and our unschooling causing others to doubt my competency in
raising my children. I do not want to be bullied into sending my kids to
school, nor do I want to adopt a fearful, reactionary approach with my
kids.
How can we retain our boundaries and protect our children from situations
like this? Any advice?
Adrean
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-How can we retain our boundaries and protect our children from situations
like this? Any advice?-=-
Maybe you could write a friendly, interesting letter to the editor or a guest editorial somewhere in your town where you can get copies and provide to neighbors or relatives or anyone who comes by. Maybe you could be interviewed by an unschooler already in Minnesota. Having been in the media might be helpful
Sandra
like this? Any advice?-=-
Maybe you could write a friendly, interesting letter to the editor or a guest editorial somewhere in your town where you can get copies and provide to neighbors or relatives or anyone who comes by. Maybe you could be interviewed by an unschooler already in Minnesota. Having been in the media might be helpful
Sandra
chris ester
I would recommend locating some support groups in your area. People who
have experience with the local officials may be able to provide good
advice.
Maybe some investigation into the people who have been making inquiries.
Most states will not divulge the name of the person who made a CPS report,
but you may be able to find out the name of the person who called your
tester.
I would also look into the confidentiality rules that the medicare worker is
required to adhere to. File complaints with appropriate entities if those
rules were violated. If you just ask the worker what the confidentiality
requirements of him or her are they may realize that they should not be
sharing information about your "disability".
You may also find that since the policeman has been to your home and found
nothing amiss, then they will leave you alone.
The policeman, I am sure, was sent to gain a bird's eye view of your home
situation. I do not know Minnesota, could it be that this district is
particularly unfriendly to homeschooling? If you find some other local
homeschoolers, they may be able to give you better info about the
personalities involved. I have heard nightmare stories of one official that
used his or her position to try to intimidate people into giving up
homeschooling. There may be other people in your area who have been
similarly targeted, if so , you could rally forces and strategize together.
Chris
have experience with the local officials may be able to provide good
advice.
Maybe some investigation into the people who have been making inquiries.
Most states will not divulge the name of the person who made a CPS report,
but you may be able to find out the name of the person who called your
tester.
I would also look into the confidentiality rules that the medicare worker is
required to adhere to. File complaints with appropriate entities if those
rules were violated. If you just ask the worker what the confidentiality
requirements of him or her are they may realize that they should not be
sharing information about your "disability".
You may also find that since the policeman has been to your home and found
nothing amiss, then they will leave you alone.
The policeman, I am sure, was sent to gain a bird's eye view of your home
situation. I do not know Minnesota, could it be that this district is
particularly unfriendly to homeschooling? If you find some other local
homeschoolers, they may be able to give you better info about the
personalities involved. I have heard nightmare stories of one official that
used his or her position to try to intimidate people into giving up
homeschooling. There may be other people in your area who have been
similarly targeted, if so , you could rally forces and strategize together.
Chris
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 12:37 AM, Adrean Clark <adreanaline@...> wrote:
>
>
> Our family moved into a new school district in Minnesota last fall. Since
> then several strange events happened. The school district was tipped off
> (possibly by our Medicare worker) and since then they have been going
> around
> our backs trying to find ways to "get" to our kids, going as far as to call
> our tester and illegally ask for the annual test results. (Minnesota law
> says that an annual test must be taken but the results are kept privately.)
>
> We were also paid a visit by a policeman acting on behalf of CPS to
> investigate a call that our kids were in danger because the electricity was
> "shut off." The cop found this claim to be false the minute he stepped into
> our home, and fortunately was supportive of our homeschooling. The
> anonymous
> caller described my husband and I's disabilities accurately. Enough time
> has
> passed for us to recover the shock and betrayal we felt about those events.
> We have been working to be sure we follow the law in our home state but
> this
> has made us less likely to trust people.
>
> What can we do to help this situation? I am a mother bear when it comes to
> protecting my children and their education, but I am acutely aware of my
> "disability" and our unschooling causing others to doubt my competency in
> raising my children. I do not want to be bullied into sending my kids to
> school, nor do I want to adopt a fearful, reactionary approach with my
> kids.
>
> How can we retain our boundaries and protect our children from situations
> like this? Any advice?
>
> Adrean
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sheeboo2
Start a blog and keep it updated. You don't need to write a lot, just take lots of pictures of things that go on during the day and maybe keep a running list of movies, websites, books, etc that your children are engaged with. That way, you'll have a time-stamped, digital record that is easy to access if you ever need it.
Brie
Brie
Sandra Dodd
-=-Start a blog and keep it updated. You don't need to write a lot, just take lots of pictures of things that go on during the day and maybe keep a running list of movies, websites, books, etc that your children are engaged with. That way, you'll have a time-stamped, digital record that is easy to access if you ever need it. -=-
I wish every unschooling family would do this. I wish there had been blogs when my kids were little. I kept a diary for each child in Word, and sometimes I quote from those, but they're totally separate from photos of the same incidents and outings.
Not only are such blogs evidence for activity and learning, they will help the parents see how far they've come, or where they're slacking, and will allow relatives in distant places to see happy children, rather than imagining lack and isolation.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wish every unschooling family would do this. I wish there had been blogs when my kids were little. I kept a diary for each child in Word, and sometimes I quote from those, but they're totally separate from photos of the same incidents and outings.
Not only are such blogs evidence for activity and learning, they will help the parents see how far they've come, or where they're slacking, and will allow relatives in distant places to see happy children, rather than imagining lack and isolation.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***How can we retain our boundaries and protect our children from situations
like this? Any advice?***
The worst might be over.
If you're complying with the law then you don't have to feel guilty. Don't live like you feel guilty or have something to hide. If you suspect a neighbor, bake some cookies and take them over. Sandra's idea about a "friendly, interesting" letter to the editor is great.
Dylan was stopped by police at different times when he was out during school hours and once when he was walking at night. We live in a small town and every new person is suspicious. Every different person is suspicious. When Dylan first got his learners permit to drive we were driving around town very late and someone called the cops because we seemed suspicious. I think he was practicing left turns so we maybe circled the same block too many times. <g.> We got pulled over, lights and all. Poor Dylan. Poor old lady, peaking out her window late at night, looking for sneaky bad guys.
Maybe you live in an area where the population is mostly older people? Older people don't often think of homeschooling when they see kids out during the day, they think, "truant." And for older people, especially, if a person seems to be neglecting their house and yard and then their kids are outside making noise during school hours, well that starts to look like a pattern of neglect. Shovel your sidewalks. Clean your house. Have a neighbor over for coffee. <g>
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
like this? Any advice?***
The worst might be over.
If you're complying with the law then you don't have to feel guilty. Don't live like you feel guilty or have something to hide. If you suspect a neighbor, bake some cookies and take them over. Sandra's idea about a "friendly, interesting" letter to the editor is great.
Dylan was stopped by police at different times when he was out during school hours and once when he was walking at night. We live in a small town and every new person is suspicious. Every different person is suspicious. When Dylan first got his learners permit to drive we were driving around town very late and someone called the cops because we seemed suspicious. I think he was practicing left turns so we maybe circled the same block too many times. <g.> We got pulled over, lights and all. Poor Dylan. Poor old lady, peaking out her window late at night, looking for sneaky bad guys.
Maybe you live in an area where the population is mostly older people? Older people don't often think of homeschooling when they see kids out during the day, they think, "truant." And for older people, especially, if a person seems to be neglecting their house and yard and then their kids are outside making noise during school hours, well that starts to look like a pattern of neglect. Shovel your sidewalks. Clean your house. Have a neighbor over for coffee. <g>
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Maybe you live in an area where the population is mostly older people? Older people don't often think of homeschooling when they see kids out during the day, they think, "truant." And for older people, especially, if a person seems to be neglecting their house and yard and then their kids are outside making noise during school hours, well that starts to look like a pattern of neglect. Shovel your sidewalks. Clean your house. Have a neighbor over for coffee. <g> -=-
Another thing about older people, and childless people, is sometimes the resent paying the taxes that support schools. The only benefit they see to themselves is that they have six hours of quiet, of all the kids being locked away elsewhere. Sometimes those are the people most irritated by the idea that their neighbors might be homeschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Another thing about older people, and childless people, is sometimes the resent paying the taxes that support schools. The only benefit they see to themselves is that they have six hours of quiet, of all the kids being locked away elsewhere. Sometimes those are the people most irritated by the idea that their neighbors might be homeschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Hey Adrean
Have you contacted anyone over at Minnesota Homeschool Alliance?
Those folks are pretty knowledgeble about what is going on with Legislations
and such
and may be able to help you with some tips .
I would also post this in their yahoo group as you may get some great insight.
Here is the
address
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MinnesotaHomeschoolersAlliance/
http://homeschoolers.org/
Keep me posted please and feel free to post on the local unschooling list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have you contacted anyone over at Minnesota Homeschool Alliance?
Those folks are pretty knowledgeble about what is going on with Legislations
and such
and may be able to help you with some tips .
I would also post this in their yahoo group as you may get some great insight.
Here is the
address
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MinnesotaHomeschoolersAlliance/
http://homeschoolers.org/
Keep me posted please and feel free to post on the local unschooling list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Adrean E
Thanks all for the responses so far :D
As for investigating who made the call, we asked and they said the caller was anonymous. No way to track down who did it. That galls me because the caller specifically listed our disabilities and it felt like we were being persecuted.
A friend of ours informed us that once CPS gets a call, they keep the record open and can see medical records, bills, etc. Can anyone verify the actual scope of CPS?
Fortunately I know who made the call re: test scores -- the tester was very supportive and told us. We may follow up on that.
From an unschooler's perspective, what are the "good" factors to look for in a new home, and the "red flags"?
Adrean
>>Maybe you could write a friendly, interesting letter to the editor...Sandra, I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind the letter? I'm shy of speaking out publicly because it can polarize people. We don't really want more attention turned to our family. Would you mind explaining more how the letter may help?
>>Maybe some investigation into the people who have been making inquiries...Chris, there's not a local group here but Alex did list some good resources that I wasn't aware of. I'll contact those groups and see.
As for investigating who made the call, we asked and they said the caller was anonymous. No way to track down who did it. That galls me because the caller specifically listed our disabilities and it felt like we were being persecuted.
A friend of ours informed us that once CPS gets a call, they keep the record open and can see medical records, bills, etc. Can anyone verify the actual scope of CPS?
Fortunately I know who made the call re: test scores -- the tester was very supportive and told us. We may follow up on that.
>>Have you contacted anyone over at Minnesota Homeschool Alliance?Alex, thank you for the links! I will follow up on that soon.
>>Start a blog and keep it updated.Brie and Sandra, That's a good idea! I'll look into it.
>>The worst might be over.I hope so, Deb! We live in an apartment and the manager has been interesting, to say the least. I get vibes from her that I can't figure out. They have been complaining we are too noisy so I feel uncomfortable (I can't hear how loud we are nor would light flashers work in our situation because the place is cheaply built.) It would probably be best to move to a new district.
From an unschooler's perspective, what are the "good" factors to look for in a new home, and the "red flags"?
Adrean
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm shy of speaking out publicly because it can polarize people. We don't really want more attention turned to our family. Would you mind explaining more how the letter may-=-
It was a suggestion in general, not for one specific family. That's how this list works.
It was a suggestion intended to turn more attention toward your family in a good way, so lots of people in your town would know you were unschooling. If you don't want that, then it's not a good idea for you, but it might be a good idea for others on the list.
If you say "Here we are, here's who we are, and here's what we're doing," you might find support and friendship. If you hide, others will wonder why.
ALL discussion of test scores and state policies and lists is off topic for this discussion list.
-=->>Start a blog and keep it updated.
Brie and Sandra, That's a good idea! I'll look into it. -=-
http://www.blogger.com/home
http://wordpress.com/
I use blogger for these and some others:
http://aboutunschooling.blogspot.com
http://thinkingsticks.blogspot.com
-=-We live in an apartment and the manager has been interesting, to say the least. I get vibes from her that I can't figure out. They have been complaining we are too noisy so I feel uncomfortable (I can't hear how loud we are nor would light flashers work in our situation because the place is cheaply built.) It would probably be best to move to a new district.
-=-From an unschooler's perspective, what are the "good" factors to look for in a new home, and the "red flags"?-=-
There are over 2,000 people on this list, and you didn't mention deafness, which is okay, but then it matters in light of this question.
Unschoolers shouldn't have other factors than other families about where to live, ideally. What are good factors for a family with deaf family members? What are problems for that? Cheaply built, thin walls, lots of neighbors, maybe.
Some unschoolers think moving out to the country without neighbors is ideal, but then they have problems when their kids are young teens and want to meet more people, or want to get jobs at 15 or 16 and live too far from town.
A yard is nice, though, so walls aren't shared, if that's possible. But it still doesn't relieve a family of the requirement to observe noise ordinances.
Where homeschooling is legal, a family needs to find ways to live within those laws. Unschooling is a method of homeschooling that a family needs to understand well enough to justify within their state's laws, if they're asked. It's not something that's "guaranteed" or can be protected. It's something that should be lived openly enough that others don't feel they can or would want to intimidate the unschooling family.
That's why I recommended seeking to introduce yourselves to the community or even to be interviewed, so that anyone who wondered should be shown a copy of the article or interview.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It was a suggestion in general, not for one specific family. That's how this list works.
It was a suggestion intended to turn more attention toward your family in a good way, so lots of people in your town would know you were unschooling. If you don't want that, then it's not a good idea for you, but it might be a good idea for others on the list.
If you say "Here we are, here's who we are, and here's what we're doing," you might find support and friendship. If you hide, others will wonder why.
ALL discussion of test scores and state policies and lists is off topic for this discussion list.
-=->>Start a blog and keep it updated.
Brie and Sandra, That's a good idea! I'll look into it. -=-
http://www.blogger.com/home
http://wordpress.com/
I use blogger for these and some others:
http://aboutunschooling.blogspot.com
http://thinkingsticks.blogspot.com
-=-We live in an apartment and the manager has been interesting, to say the least. I get vibes from her that I can't figure out. They have been complaining we are too noisy so I feel uncomfortable (I can't hear how loud we are nor would light flashers work in our situation because the place is cheaply built.) It would probably be best to move to a new district.
-=-From an unschooler's perspective, what are the "good" factors to look for in a new home, and the "red flags"?-=-
There are over 2,000 people on this list, and you didn't mention deafness, which is okay, but then it matters in light of this question.
Unschoolers shouldn't have other factors than other families about where to live, ideally. What are good factors for a family with deaf family members? What are problems for that? Cheaply built, thin walls, lots of neighbors, maybe.
Some unschoolers think moving out to the country without neighbors is ideal, but then they have problems when their kids are young teens and want to meet more people, or want to get jobs at 15 or 16 and live too far from town.
A yard is nice, though, so walls aren't shared, if that's possible. But it still doesn't relieve a family of the requirement to observe noise ordinances.
Where homeschooling is legal, a family needs to find ways to live within those laws. Unschooling is a method of homeschooling that a family needs to understand well enough to justify within their state's laws, if they're asked. It's not something that's "guaranteed" or can be protected. It's something that should be lived openly enough that others don't feel they can or would want to intimidate the unschooling family.
That's why I recommended seeking to introduce yourselves to the community or even to be interviewed, so that anyone who wondered should be shown a copy of the article or interview.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aldq75
If it is difficult to find the time to write, Flickr is another possibility. It's a photo-sharing site. I post photos regularly and add captions. Some kids might like to have their own flickr site (you can post up to 200 photos for free).
We live in a state that requires annual evaluations. The photos and captions can be expanded upon to sound schooly enough to satisfy the evaluator.
Andrea Q
We live in a state that requires annual evaluations. The photos and captions can be expanded upon to sound schooly enough to satisfy the evaluator.
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Start a blog and keep it updated. You don't need to write a lot, just take lots of pictures of things that go on during the day and maybe keep a running list of movies, websites, books, etc that your children are engaged with. That way, you'll have a time-stamped, digital record that is easy to access if you ever need it. -=-
>
>
> -=- Not only are such blogs evidence for activity and learning, they will help the parents see how far they've come, or where they're slacking, and will allow relatives in distant places to see happy children, rather than imagining lack and isolation. -=-
>
Pam Sorooshian
On 3/4/2011 10:31 AM, Adrean E wrote:
Location- things to do like parks and playgrounds and children's
activities. The physical layout of the apartment or house -- space!!
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> It would probably be best to move to a new district.You mean in the physical layout of the new place or the location?
>
> >From an unschooler's perspective, what are the "good" factors to look
> for in a new home, and the "red flags"?
Location- things to do like parks and playgrounds and children's
activities. The physical layout of the apartment or house -- space!!
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
I would love a huge room to house all of the books and projects in... that
we could block the cats from. Heee
Chris
we could block the cats from. Heee
Chris
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>wrote:
>
>
> On 3/4/2011 10:31 AM, Adrean E wrote:
> > It would probably be best to move to a new district.
> >
> > >From an unschooler's perspective, what are the "good" factors to look
> > for in a new home, and the "red flags"?
>
> You mean in the physical layout of the new place or the location?
> Location- things to do like parks and playgrounds and children's
> activities. The physical layout of the apartment or house -- space!!
>
> -pam
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-> > >From an unschooler's perspective, what are the "good" factors to look
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > for in a new home, and the "red flags"?-=-It helped our family to move to a bigger house when the kids were 6-11 years old, and getting too big to share a room. The old house had only three or four places, really to get away from other people. The new house had a dozen, and that relieved tension and crowding. It also kept us from being so close at night, so that was the downside.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]