impulse control in an eight-year-old boy
Sandra Dodd
A list member sent this to me and asked that it be posted anonymously. If you know who it is, don't be guessing, just address the situation.
When you respond, if the automatic quote shows that Sandra Dodd wrote.... try to take that off, because I haven't had an eight year old boy since 1998. Thanks.
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My son is 8 and has always been very impulsive. He also loves to be a goof ball and make jokes and laugh but is really not good are reading others response to his attempts to be funny or make jokes. He is not really good a reading social cues and to know when he is going too far.
He really is a loving , caring boy and really sweet to his younger sibling. At home we really have no problems with this as I can just tell him straight "hey stop" and facilitate and everything is great. But when not at home, we have been having problems when around groups of kids.
He wants to connect with other kids and be funny and it comes out all wrong plus he does not know when to stop even when told to stop. He, not always, will keep doing it. I do remove him from it. I do step in and remove him or stop him. He does stop but sometimes goes on to doing other annoying things. He touches kids, pulls their hoods back or runs after them waving his arms and laughing. Its not done in a mean way, he is trying to be funny.
So today he is in his basketball class that he loves and asks to go and the coach is really good. He has been in it for the second year and he is a great player. This session there is another boy that plays the same way he does and they feed of each other and it disturbs the class so last week his coach was frustrated with both of them. Today everything was apparently good until the coach told them to go get a drink and they all ran to the water fountain and this boy got there first so my son grabbed the back of his shirt and pulled him out and down into the floor.
Now I know he did not mean to hurt the kid and it was not in mean spirit towards the other boy that he likes a lot. He just does not understand, at the moment, what he is doing .He sometimes even thinks it is funny and if someone would get hurt he would feel horrible and he absolutely regrets it.
So in this situation, the boy's mom was right there and the coach was really upset and has asked that he not come to classes any more this session. I am not upset at the coach as I do understand his position. I am very upset that I have not been able to help my son with this.
Some days things are great and some days they are not. He will be great and them he will have moments. I am upset that I know how sweet and wonderful he really is but that on the outside watching people see his behavior and do not know that.
Simply put:
It looks bad!
How can I help him with impulse control? What am I missing?
It is clear he is not ready for it.
But he loves it and wants to do it plus he did great all last year. Shouldn't it get better with maturity and not worse?
Thanks
When you respond, if the automatic quote shows that Sandra Dodd wrote.... try to take that off, because I haven't had an eight year old boy since 1998. Thanks.
====================================================================
My son is 8 and has always been very impulsive. He also loves to be a goof ball and make jokes and laugh but is really not good are reading others response to his attempts to be funny or make jokes. He is not really good a reading social cues and to know when he is going too far.
He really is a loving , caring boy and really sweet to his younger sibling. At home we really have no problems with this as I can just tell him straight "hey stop" and facilitate and everything is great. But when not at home, we have been having problems when around groups of kids.
He wants to connect with other kids and be funny and it comes out all wrong plus he does not know when to stop even when told to stop. He, not always, will keep doing it. I do remove him from it. I do step in and remove him or stop him. He does stop but sometimes goes on to doing other annoying things. He touches kids, pulls their hoods back or runs after them waving his arms and laughing. Its not done in a mean way, he is trying to be funny.
So today he is in his basketball class that he loves and asks to go and the coach is really good. He has been in it for the second year and he is a great player. This session there is another boy that plays the same way he does and they feed of each other and it disturbs the class so last week his coach was frustrated with both of them. Today everything was apparently good until the coach told them to go get a drink and they all ran to the water fountain and this boy got there first so my son grabbed the back of his shirt and pulled him out and down into the floor.
Now I know he did not mean to hurt the kid and it was not in mean spirit towards the other boy that he likes a lot. He just does not understand, at the moment, what he is doing .He sometimes even thinks it is funny and if someone would get hurt he would feel horrible and he absolutely regrets it.
So in this situation, the boy's mom was right there and the coach was really upset and has asked that he not come to classes any more this session. I am not upset at the coach as I do understand his position. I am very upset that I have not been able to help my son with this.
Some days things are great and some days they are not. He will be great and them he will have moments. I am upset that I know how sweet and wonderful he really is but that on the outside watching people see his behavior and do not know that.
Simply put:
It looks bad!
How can I help him with impulse control? What am I missing?
It is clear he is not ready for it.
But he loves it and wants to do it plus he did great all last year. Shouldn't it get better with maturity and not worse?
Thanks
NCMama
-=-I am upset that I know how sweet and wonderful he really is but that on the outside watching people see his behavior and do not know that.-=-
I don't have time for a full response, but I do want to say, the behavior you describe is not sweet & wonderful. He's not sweet & wonderful when he's pulling kids down, pulling their hoodies, or waving his arms as he laughs & runs after them.
I think we can get caught up in "knowing" what their motivations are -- "but he doesn't mean it!" and not nipping the behavior in the bud right away. I know you said you step in and put a stop to it. Is that right away, or do you stand back for a moment, because you don't want him to think he's anything but sweet & wonderful?
There can't be a mixed intention - it has to be very clear: Stop! That's not OK! Especially where other kids are concerned.
peace,
Caren
I don't have time for a full response, but I do want to say, the behavior you describe is not sweet & wonderful. He's not sweet & wonderful when he's pulling kids down, pulling their hoodies, or waving his arms as he laughs & runs after them.
I think we can get caught up in "knowing" what their motivations are -- "but he doesn't mean it!" and not nipping the behavior in the bud right away. I know you said you step in and put a stop to it. Is that right away, or do you stand back for a moment, because you don't want him to think he's anything but sweet & wonderful?
There can't be a mixed intention - it has to be very clear: Stop! That's not OK! Especially where other kids are concerned.
peace,
Caren
Myia&Roger
Sometimes its not so simlpe as it appears ...I have unschooled all my children and never believed in guided experiences for children and hate lables... but I have a child with sensory integration issues, labeled as sensory processing disorder.
To aid in his ability to interact in social situations , I have had to set him up for success and guide his experiences quite a bit.. researching sensory processing disorder helped me a lot ,as did finding an understanding occupational therapist...don't know if this applies to your situation, but pretty sure you understanding your child's needs is the most important thing in helping others to not misunderstand him.
---
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To aid in his ability to interact in social situations , I have had to set him up for success and guide his experiences quite a bit.. researching sensory processing disorder helped me a lot ,as did finding an understanding occupational therapist...don't know if this applies to your situation, but pretty sure you understanding your child's needs is the most important thing in helping others to not misunderstand him.
---
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
What is meant by "guided experiences" here?
" never believed in guided experiences for children "
-=-don't know if this applies to your situation, but pretty sure you understanding your child's needs is the most important thing in helping others to not misunderstand him.-=-
I didn't understand that either, unless it's intended to say that a child's needs (to grab, to tease?) are more important than other people's rights to peace, and that a mother is somehow supposed to let the child do whatever he wants to, while "helping others to not misunderstand him."
I don't think that's clear. If I do understand it, I don't think it's good advice.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
" never believed in guided experiences for children "
-=-don't know if this applies to your situation, but pretty sure you understanding your child's needs is the most important thing in helping others to not misunderstand him.-=-
I didn't understand that either, unless it's intended to say that a child's needs (to grab, to tease?) are more important than other people's rights to peace, and that a mother is somehow supposed to let the child do whatever he wants to, while "helping others to not misunderstand him."
I don't think that's clear. If I do understand it, I don't think it's good advice.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina Tarbutton
>How can I help him with impulse control? What am I missing?
>
>
>
> He wants to connect with other kids and be funny and it comes out all wrong
> plus he does not know when to stop even when told to stop.
>
>I
>
Giving the word "stop" lots of power helped in our house even before we were
unschooling. Letting Draven, who was 5 or 6 at the time play with his power
by using the word stop, no matter what we were doing.
To introduce the concept I said something to the point of "stop is the most
powerful word in the world, wanna see?" And I would tickle him and he would
yell "stop" and I'd freeze mid air, and not start again until he said go.
We'd be walking through the store and he'd say "stop" and I'd freeze. We
played stop and go across the yard, in the mall, even when driving (I can't
remember how I approached that part, but he knew to only do it when there
were no cars right behind me, and I would pull over to the side of the road
and stop). He would "stop" me in the middle of a sentence. We made it a
game, but it was showing him how much power the word stop had.
After some time of that I started playing back with "stop"ping him in fun
situations. It happened as a give and take.
Then we moved to more behavior related stuff when it was just him and I (not
in a mean or controlling way, but just using the word stop to have him
freeze for a second so I could redirect). When we started using it around
his friends I made sure I was always right there, and as he started to do
something that could be perceived as mean I said stop. His friends picked
up on that word working and started directly saying it to him when he was
crossing the line. On a case by case, situation by situation basis I would
allow myself to be further away depending on quite a few things (if the
friend knew Draven well and knew about "stop", if he were in a calm mood or
easily excitable, etc.)
I knew it was working because of two different things.
First a friend of his did something to him that he didn't like and he said
stop. The friend didn't stop immediately and Draven calmly pointed out that
stop meant stop in our house and to please respect his boundaries (another
word I taught along the way, a very important one).
The second thing that showed me it was working was when he reached to grab
someones shirt and he whispered stop and froze before he grabbed it. Then
he redirected himself. That didn't happen every time, but more and more
often.
He'll be 11 in a few days. He pretty much listens to any form of stop now,
if he doesn't stop himself first. However, last month at our first park day
after moving back here he got over excited while a bunch of long lost
friends were playing together and it spiraled out of control in a matter of
seconds. I should have been right beside him in that excitable situation
and I wasn't, that was my fault.
Finding ways to make both your child, and other people safe is important.
Especially since as kids get older a tug on the back of the hood can
startle someone and get a knee jerk reaction which can lead to a fight
(which is what happened at park day).
If this weren't so long I'd speak more on the boundaries issue. I think
it's an important one, and if anyone thinks it will be helpful for me to
post about it, let me know and I will.
Tina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
While your son may want more than anything to be involved with big group things
like basketball it may not be something he is prepared to do yet. Can you do
more things that allow you to be closer to him and more of a guiding voice and
hand than things like basketball where it is harder for you to be close by?
"Shouldn't it get better with maturity and not worse?"
Maybe it comes more incrementally than that, maybe it is a couple of step
forwards and a step back. Maybe it is less than a linear movement.
The coach judged him as being unable to handle it right now. That makes it out
of your jurisdiction. Can you talk to your son? Can you work on techniques for
getting him calmer in the moment, recognising when he's tensing up too much?
getting too excited? The other option is that you wait, that you do other things
that are less away from you and more small group oriented. Over time he will be
better able, with the occasional discussion with you, to work his way through
something without going for the more physical response.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
like basketball it may not be something he is prepared to do yet. Can you do
more things that allow you to be closer to him and more of a guiding voice and
hand than things like basketball where it is harder for you to be close by?
"Shouldn't it get better with maturity and not worse?"
Maybe it comes more incrementally than that, maybe it is a couple of step
forwards and a step back. Maybe it is less than a linear movement.
The coach judged him as being unable to handle it right now. That makes it out
of your jurisdiction. Can you talk to your son? Can you work on techniques for
getting him calmer in the moment, recognising when he's tensing up too much?
getting too excited? The other option is that you wait, that you do other things
that are less away from you and more small group oriented. Over time he will be
better able, with the occasional discussion with you, to work his way through
something without going for the more physical response.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Karl is seven and while I know he's a lot of fun, lately some of what
he does is unwelcome. A big part of this is that he has gotten a whole
lot bigger and stronger recently and he doesn't know his own
strength--- that some things he used to do, with what feels to him
like the same effort, now hurt. To him it doesn't yet make sense but I
absolutely insist that if someone says it hurts, then it hurts. And if
people are frowning or backing away then it's probably because they
don't want it. I step in to protect others and also redirect him. And
later I talk about it with him aside from others, reminding him that
if he wants to be welcome then pain from him, even if *he* can't see
it, feel it, or see it as real, will not be welcome and neither will
he.
Body awareness, social awareness, changes in others' sensitivity and
lots of other things can be involved.
~Katherine
he does is unwelcome. A big part of this is that he has gotten a whole
lot bigger and stronger recently and he doesn't know his own
strength--- that some things he used to do, with what feels to him
like the same effort, now hurt. To him it doesn't yet make sense but I
absolutely insist that if someone says it hurts, then it hurts. And if
people are frowning or backing away then it's probably because they
don't want it. I step in to protect others and also redirect him. And
later I talk about it with him aside from others, reminding him that
if he wants to be welcome then pain from him, even if *he* can't see
it, feel it, or see it as real, will not be welcome and neither will
he.
Body awareness, social awareness, changes in others' sensitivity and
lots of other things can be involved.
~Katherine
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
> While your son may want more than anything to be involved with big group things
> like basketball it may not be something he is prepared to do yet. Can you do
> more things that allow you to be closer to him and more of a guiding voice and
> hand than things like basketball where it is harder for you to be close by?
>
>
> "Shouldn't it get better with maturity and not worse?"
>
> Maybe it comes more incrementally than that, maybe it is a couple of step
> forwards and a step back. Maybe it is less than a linear movement.
>
>
> The coach judged him as being unable to handle it right now. That makes it out
> of your jurisdiction. Can you talk to your son? Can you work on techniques for
> getting him calmer in the moment, recognising when he's tensing up too much?
> getting too excited? The other option is that you wait, that you do other things
> that are less away from you and more small group oriented. Over time he will be
> better able, with the occasional discussion with you, to work his way through
> something without going for the more physical response.
>
>
> Schuyler
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-If this weren't so long I'd speak more on the boundaries issue. I think
it's an important one, and if anyone thinks it will be helpful for me to
post about it, let me know and I will.-=-
Please post about boundaries, Tina!
it's an important one, and if anyone thinks it will be helpful for me to
post about it, let me know and I will.-=-
Please post about boundaries, Tina!
Sandra Dodd
-=-Body awareness, social awareness, changes in others' sensitivity and
lots of other things can be involved.-=-
Why would changes in others' sensitivity be a factor?
Why would their sensitivity change?
Children should have tools (depending on their age, better and better tools as the years go by) to help them figure out how to act in many kinds of situations. It shouldn't be about other people's "sensitivity" should it?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant.
There are different groups and kinds of events with special (or less special) behaviors expected. Some kids could be helped by coaching for particular events, too--whether they'll be expected to be more quiet, or less active, depending on whether it's a field day, funeral, museum or indoor playplace.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lots of other things can be involved.-=-
Why would changes in others' sensitivity be a factor?
Why would their sensitivity change?
Children should have tools (depending on their age, better and better tools as the years go by) to help them figure out how to act in many kinds of situations. It shouldn't be about other people's "sensitivity" should it?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant.
There are different groups and kinds of events with special (or less special) behaviors expected. Some kids could be helped by coaching for particular events, too--whether they'll be expected to be more quiet, or less active, depending on whether it's a field day, funeral, museum or indoor playplace.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>Why would changes in others' sensitivity be a factor? Why would their sensitivity change?<<<Lots of reasons ... when someone is fatigued or ill, for instance,
they're likely to be more sensitive.
~Katherine
Sandra Dodd
-=-Lots of reasons ... when someone is fatigued or ill, for instance,
they're likely to be more sensitive.-=-
So children should be warned that sometimes others are tired or ill and they should be nicer around them, right?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
they're likely to be more sensitive.-=-
So children should be warned that sometimes others are tired or ill and they should be nicer around them, right?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina Tarbutton
Learning about ones own boundaries is so important but I think most people
(kids, teens and adults) do not know how to set boundaries therefore it's
harder to recognize when you're crossing a boundary someone else has. If
you don't understand the concept personally, it makes no sense in the
abstract.
As an adult, around the same time as the "stop" thing I realized that I had
very few well defined boundaries for myself. I let people yell at me, I
didn't know how to say no, I let people abuse my giving nature. The key
part there was "I let". I didn't tell them to stop, so they quite possibly
didn't know anything was wrong. Draven didn't understand respecting
boundaries because he didn't really understand setting them. He didn't
understand setting them because I never set any for myself. The first thing
I had to do was set boundaries and enforce them in my own life. I had to
have some concept of personal boundaries before I could help him figure out
how to see the social boundaries.
At some point I started letting him know boundaries existed, and during the
"stop" games I differentiated between a temporary stop and a boundary stop.
Not in those words exactly but in tone (playful vs. serious) and in
the explanation that followed.
We love tickle wars and it was a great way to play with "stop", however I do
not like my feet being tickled, at all. So when he'd tickle my feet I'd say
"stop . . . I really don't like that, you can tickle me here instead, okay
now go." The next time he'd head for my feet I'd remind him before he got
there, or if he did get there I'd say "stop . . . remember not my feet, I
don't like that, here is better, okay... go"
When we would play fight it was the same thing, we would stop to pause the
action and catch our breath, but if he hit me in my face I'd stop him and
let him know it wasn't okay. One time I grabbed too close to a scratch he
had and he said "stop, I have a cut right there don't touch near it, okay
go"
I just remembered a game that he started. He would say "can I tickle
you...." and start tickling my belly "....here?" and I would say "Of course,
I love that!" and then he would tickle my knee, then my underarm, then he'd
get near my foot and start giggling madly and say "can I tickle you . . .
nope, not here, but" tickling somewhere else "here is good!"
He started recognizing the difference and sometimes apologizing if he
crossed a boundary before I even had a chance to say anything. There were
other things I didn't like him to do, but honestly I can't think of them
anymore because they've been a non-issue.
We also talked about his boundaries. He didn't like it when I held him
a certain way. I had always carried him that way so remembering was hard
for me, but we communicated about it (Stop, remember not to hold me like
that mom) and I apologized for making him uncomfortable when it happened.
He didn't like doctors touching without saying something, so either he or I
would let the doctor know when we first went in for the appointment. I
helped him make his own boundaries clear, no matter what the situation, and
I stood up for his boundaries and my own.
Somehow (and it's been a few years so I can't remember specifics) it moved
from his boundaries and my boundaries to other peoples boundaries, and from
there to general boundaries. It was a constantly evolving open
communication between us. Not an, every day, all day kind of conversation,
but something that we touched on pretty regularly.
Before we walked into any situation we'd discuss the boundaries that were
probably in effect. Not so much a "no hitting" rule type of thing, but
"remember to respect personal space" or even more specific "remember jake
doesn't like it when you grab his clothes"
I showed him my boundaries, allowed him to discover his own and helped him
speak up about them. That helped him be more respectful of others spoken
and unspoken boundaries (however the unspoken ones he typically had to be
reminded about frequently).
Tina
(kids, teens and adults) do not know how to set boundaries therefore it's
harder to recognize when you're crossing a boundary someone else has. If
you don't understand the concept personally, it makes no sense in the
abstract.
As an adult, around the same time as the "stop" thing I realized that I had
very few well defined boundaries for myself. I let people yell at me, I
didn't know how to say no, I let people abuse my giving nature. The key
part there was "I let". I didn't tell them to stop, so they quite possibly
didn't know anything was wrong. Draven didn't understand respecting
boundaries because he didn't really understand setting them. He didn't
understand setting them because I never set any for myself. The first thing
I had to do was set boundaries and enforce them in my own life. I had to
have some concept of personal boundaries before I could help him figure out
how to see the social boundaries.
At some point I started letting him know boundaries existed, and during the
"stop" games I differentiated between a temporary stop and a boundary stop.
Not in those words exactly but in tone (playful vs. serious) and in
the explanation that followed.
We love tickle wars and it was a great way to play with "stop", however I do
not like my feet being tickled, at all. So when he'd tickle my feet I'd say
"stop . . . I really don't like that, you can tickle me here instead, okay
now go." The next time he'd head for my feet I'd remind him before he got
there, or if he did get there I'd say "stop . . . remember not my feet, I
don't like that, here is better, okay... go"
When we would play fight it was the same thing, we would stop to pause the
action and catch our breath, but if he hit me in my face I'd stop him and
let him know it wasn't okay. One time I grabbed too close to a scratch he
had and he said "stop, I have a cut right there don't touch near it, okay
go"
I just remembered a game that he started. He would say "can I tickle
you...." and start tickling my belly "....here?" and I would say "Of course,
I love that!" and then he would tickle my knee, then my underarm, then he'd
get near my foot and start giggling madly and say "can I tickle you . . .
nope, not here, but" tickling somewhere else "here is good!"
He started recognizing the difference and sometimes apologizing if he
crossed a boundary before I even had a chance to say anything. There were
other things I didn't like him to do, but honestly I can't think of them
anymore because they've been a non-issue.
We also talked about his boundaries. He didn't like it when I held him
a certain way. I had always carried him that way so remembering was hard
for me, but we communicated about it (Stop, remember not to hold me like
that mom) and I apologized for making him uncomfortable when it happened.
He didn't like doctors touching without saying something, so either he or I
would let the doctor know when we first went in for the appointment. I
helped him make his own boundaries clear, no matter what the situation, and
I stood up for his boundaries and my own.
Somehow (and it's been a few years so I can't remember specifics) it moved
from his boundaries and my boundaries to other peoples boundaries, and from
there to general boundaries. It was a constantly evolving open
communication between us. Not an, every day, all day kind of conversation,
but something that we touched on pretty regularly.
Before we walked into any situation we'd discuss the boundaries that were
probably in effect. Not so much a "no hitting" rule type of thing, but
"remember to respect personal space" or even more specific "remember jake
doesn't like it when you grab his clothes"
I showed him my boundaries, allowed him to discover his own and helped him
speak up about them. That helped him be more respectful of others spoken
and unspoken boundaries (however the unspoken ones he typically had to be
reminded about frequently).
Tina
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> -=-If this weren't so long I'd speak more on the boundaries issue. I think
>
> it's an important one, and if anyone thinks it will be helpful for me to
> post about it, let me know and I will.-=-
>
> Please post about boundaries, Tina!
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Yes!
~Katherine
~Katherine
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-Lots of reasons ... when someone is fatigued or ill, for instance,
> they're likely to be more sensitive.-=-
>
> So children should be warned that sometimes others are tired or ill and they should be nicer around them, right?
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Linda
>I was in a similar situation with my son,and he was older than 8 at the time. For our situation, the activity changed from the first to the second year - different kids and more of them. Maybe that's what happened with your son. He loved the activity and I played with the group and tried to stay close to him. I tried to give him as much support as I could, but it wasn't enough. He was just not ready for that kind of situation. So we stopped. we spent years just going to playgrounds and he'd play with whoever was there. Or doing activities that were just a few times, because it seemed like he could put up with frustrations for a little while, but week after week it would start to get to him. We talked a lot about how some activities seem like such fun, but that he was not yet ready to enjoy them. We found classes for him to take that were small because it seemed like the large group of kids is one of the things that frustrated him. When things went wrong, we'd talk about it. I learned to take his side - it was always someone else's fault. If I listened to that and agreed with him, after a while, he'd change his own mind and start to come up with things that maybe he could have done differently and what he could do next time differently that would cause a different outcome. At some point, I would always emphasize that, no matter what the other person did, if he started or retaliated with physical violence he was very very responsible for that.
> How can I help him with impulse control? What am I missing?
>
> It is clear he is not ready for it.
> But he loves it and wants to do it plus he did great all last year. Shouldn't it get better with maturity and not worse?
>
A lot of this was really hard for me. I thought that if he could participate in activities at 8 (or 9 or 10 or 11), he never would be able to. I thought if I took his side with the blaming someone else for his problems, it would become a habit for him and he'd grow up unable to take responsibility for himself. Now he's older and things have changed so much. He's involved in lots of activities, large and small. The teachers and other parents enjoy having him around because he participates in the classes in a really good way.
So my opinion is that you do not seem to be missing anything. He's just not ready for this basketball, even though it seemed like he was ready last year. Cut back, make it simpler for him, and let him find success in something - anything. In my experience, the qualities that seemed like a liability at 8 years old, morphed into assets by 13.
And also, see if he can do lots of physical activity. We had a little trampoline in the house, he did lots of wrestling with his dad and brothers, we did climbing, dancing, swimming, tennis. Just like I am more even tempered when I get enough exercise, I think my kids have a better kind of alertness and calmness when we find fun physical activities to do
aldq75
-=- Somehow (and it's been a few years so I can't remember specifics) it moved
from his boundaries and my boundaries to other peoples boundaries, and from
there to general boundaries. It was a constantly evolving open
communication between us. Not an, every day, all day kind of conversation,
but something that we touched on pretty regularly. -=-
Thank you for sharing the specifics about how Draven learned about boundaries. I have been frustrated lately and I found a lot of useful ideas in your post. Most importantly, I need to remember that each of my kids is an individual that learns in different ways at different speeds.
Andrea Q
from his boundaries and my boundaries to other peoples boundaries, and from
there to general boundaries. It was a constantly evolving open
communication between us. Not an, every day, all day kind of conversation,
but something that we touched on pretty regularly. -=-
Thank you for sharing the specifics about how Draven learned about boundaries. I have been frustrated lately and I found a lot of useful ideas in your post. Most importantly, I need to remember that each of my kids is an individual that learns in different ways at different speeds.
Andrea Q
Sandra Dodd
-=-A lot of this was really hard for me. I thought that if he could participate in activities at 8 (or 9 or 10 or 11), he never would be able to. I thought if I took his side with the blaming someone else for his problems, it would become a habit for him and he'd grow up unable to take responsibility for himself. Now he's older and things have changed so much. He's involved in lots of activities, large and small. The teachers and other parents enjoy having him around because he participates in the classes in a really good way.-=-
This is a really good point, I think. Although it can seem like an eternity for parents of young children who seem "behind" in any way--reading, socially, toilet-training, desire to go out as a teen and find friends.... I've seen lots of kids come through all those stages and the parents surprised and relived.
I think there are growth spurts of all sorts, and although coaching can help in some areas, and encouragement and coaching, sometimes it just takes time and patience.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is a really good point, I think. Although it can seem like an eternity for parents of young children who seem "behind" in any way--reading, socially, toilet-training, desire to go out as a teen and find friends.... I've seen lots of kids come through all those stages and the parents surprised and relived.
I think there are growth spurts of all sorts, and although coaching can help in some areas, and encouragement and coaching, sometimes it just takes time and patience.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina Tarbutton
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Linda <playingwith3@...> wrote:
other person (or people) when something goes wrong. At the park day
incident five differnt kids (who were all talking to their individual
parents) said "Draven grabbed his hood and he reacted by kicking backwards"
Draven's view of the situation was that the boy just walked up and kicked
him in the privates for no good reason. I don't want to call Draven a liar,
but at the same time I'm not sure how to take his side.
I fully understood that the whole situation was an accident, the boys were
rough housing, they had stopped to catch their breath. Draven wasn't ready
to stop or didn't recognize the pause and tried to keep going. Someone got
startled, Draven got hurt. In the end everyone involved was upset.
How do I take his side without blaming the other child? Especially when the
other child is near.
I don't think I ever thought about taking his side even when he was at
fault.
Tina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I learned to take his side - it was always someone else's fault. If II'm curious how this looked in action. Draven always immediately blames the
> listened to that and agreed with him, after a while, he'd change his own
> mind and start to come up with things that maybe he could have done
> differently and what he could do next time differently that would cause a
> different outcome. At some point, I would always emphasize that, no matter
> what the other person did, if he started or retaliated with physical
> violence he was very very responsible for that.
>
> A lot of this was really hard for me. I thought that if he could
> participate in activities at 8 (or 9 or 10 or 11), he never would be able
> to. I thought if I took his side with the blaming someone else for his
> problems, it would become a habit for him and he'd grow up unable to take
> responsibility for himself.
>
other person (or people) when something goes wrong. At the park day
incident five differnt kids (who were all talking to their individual
parents) said "Draven grabbed his hood and he reacted by kicking backwards"
Draven's view of the situation was that the boy just walked up and kicked
him in the privates for no good reason. I don't want to call Draven a liar,
but at the same time I'm not sure how to take his side.
I fully understood that the whole situation was an accident, the boys were
rough housing, they had stopped to catch their breath. Draven wasn't ready
to stop or didn't recognize the pause and tried to keep going. Someone got
startled, Draven got hurt. In the end everyone involved was upset.
How do I take his side without blaming the other child? Especially when the
other child is near.
I don't think I ever thought about taking his side even when he was at
fault.
Tina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezignarob
Jayn always wants me to be on her side, even when I have witnessed that she caused the problem.
===How do I take his side without blaming the other child? Especially when the other child is near.==
What always works better is to take Jayn aside or right away from the situation. Not to try to do any of this in front of other parents or kids.
When Jayn was much younger and had done something to hurt another child I would usually talk to that child, ask her if she was ok or to explain what happened and be comforting and apologetic, while having my arm around Jayn. Then she and I would go and talk it over in private.
Robyn L. Coburn
===How do I take his side without blaming the other child? Especially when the other child is near.==
What always works better is to take Jayn aside or right away from the situation. Not to try to do any of this in front of other parents or kids.
When Jayn was much younger and had done something to hurt another child I would usually talk to that child, ask her if she was ok or to explain what happened and be comforting and apologetic, while having my arm around Jayn. Then she and I would go and talk it over in private.
Robyn L. Coburn
lalow
>I am not sure I completely understand that either. The other day we were with a group of kids and a 10 or 11 year old girl was playing with my son, who is 5. She was riding his skateboard. He was playing with her and in his excitement he pushed the skateboard and knocked her to the ground. Now , I assumed at the time he was trying to push her on the skateboard, like you might push someone on a trike. He wasnt upset or mad. I honestly think if he had been those things and pushed her he would have pushed her, not the skateboard. I was about 10 feet away and they were having fun. She was hurt and I brought him over to me and explained that she was hurt. At first he denied doing anything and tried to joke but I explained that I wasnt mad at him and I didnt think he hurt her on purpose but that when she came back from getting some ice for her bruise it would be nice for him to give her a hug and say he was sorry. I said this all very gravely so he would see that it was not a joke. He sat next to me till she came out and he went over and hugged her and apoligized.
> How do I take his side without blaming the other child? Especially when the
> other child is near.
>
> I don't think I ever thought about taking his side even when he was at
> fault.
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-> I learned to take his side - it was always someone else's fault. If I
other child is near.
-=-I don't think I ever thought about taking his side even when he was at fault.-=-
I'm really hoping the first quote above was about being empathetic and going along with the idea that her own child wasn't at fault, for the purpose of hearing his side.
When I've said "be your child's partner, not his adversary," I hope people haven't take from that to side with their child no matter how much in the wrong he was. I didn't mean that at all. I meant to help him navigate the world, just as you would help an adult friend in a tricky situation. And for very young children, most situations are tricky. They need ideas, and assistance.
I don't think a parent should take a child's side in such a way that blames the other child. I think a parent should be a peacemaker. Robin C's example is good:
-=-What always works better is to take Jayn aside or right away from the situation. Not to try to do any of this in front of other parents or kids.
-=-When Jayn was much younger and had done something to hurt another child I would usually talk to that child, ask her if she was ok or to explain what happened and be comforting and apologetic, while having my arm around Jayn. Then she and I would go and talk it over in private.-=-
What I did when there were problems between my own children is all written up here: http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
What I did when it involved someone else was to help make the other child feel better, if we were in public and it was 'a member of my team' who caused distress, or if I wasn't there and heard about it afterwards, hear the child out, and ask questions--not in an accusatory, shaming way, but in a curious, clarifying way. Was there anything Kirby (for example, when he was eight) could have done to avoid the altercation? Were there others involved? What could they have done to have helped? Did he go to an adult for help? Discussing what went wrong helped him avoid similar ends in the future. I said "Next time, maybe..." a LOT when my kids were little. (Come to think of it, I still do. Kirby called to talk about a couple of social situations yesterday, and he's 24. Marty, 22, talked to me about awkwardness talking to his girlfriend's dad, about some work he was doing for him last fall and whether he should ask for a chance to do some more now that it's getting warmer. Holly, 19, asked me to go with her to talk to someone in January, just to be there in case she got flustered or stuck.)
Take their side in ways that make their lives better, not in ways that justify carelessness or thoughtlessness.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> listened to that and agreed with him, after a while, he'd change his own-=-How do I take his side without blaming the other child? Especially when the
> mind...
other child is near.
-=-I don't think I ever thought about taking his side even when he was at fault.-=-
I'm really hoping the first quote above was about being empathetic and going along with the idea that her own child wasn't at fault, for the purpose of hearing his side.
When I've said "be your child's partner, not his adversary," I hope people haven't take from that to side with their child no matter how much in the wrong he was. I didn't mean that at all. I meant to help him navigate the world, just as you would help an adult friend in a tricky situation. And for very young children, most situations are tricky. They need ideas, and assistance.
I don't think a parent should take a child's side in such a way that blames the other child. I think a parent should be a peacemaker. Robin C's example is good:
-=-What always works better is to take Jayn aside or right away from the situation. Not to try to do any of this in front of other parents or kids.
-=-When Jayn was much younger and had done something to hurt another child I would usually talk to that child, ask her if she was ok or to explain what happened and be comforting and apologetic, while having my arm around Jayn. Then she and I would go and talk it over in private.-=-
What I did when there were problems between my own children is all written up here: http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
What I did when it involved someone else was to help make the other child feel better, if we were in public and it was 'a member of my team' who caused distress, or if I wasn't there and heard about it afterwards, hear the child out, and ask questions--not in an accusatory, shaming way, but in a curious, clarifying way. Was there anything Kirby (for example, when he was eight) could have done to avoid the altercation? Were there others involved? What could they have done to have helped? Did he go to an adult for help? Discussing what went wrong helped him avoid similar ends in the future. I said "Next time, maybe..." a LOT when my kids were little. (Come to think of it, I still do. Kirby called to talk about a couple of social situations yesterday, and he's 24. Marty, 22, talked to me about awkwardness talking to his girlfriend's dad, about some work he was doing for him last fall and whether he should ask for a chance to do some more now that it's getting warmer. Holly, 19, asked me to go with her to talk to someone in January, just to be there in case she got flustered or stuck.)
Take their side in ways that make their lives better, not in ways that justify carelessness or thoughtlessness.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa E Biesemeyer
"Come to think of it, I still do. Kirby called to talk about a couple of
social situations yesterday, and he's 24. Marty, 22, talked to me about
awkwardness talking to his girlfriend's dad, about some work he was doing for
him last fall and whether he should ask for a chance to do some more now that
it's getting warmer. Holly, 19, asked me to go with her to talk to someone
in January, just to be there in case she got flustered or stuck.)"
Once you have established yourself as a partner to your child, there isn't
necessarily (and hopefully not) an age for either parent or child when that
partnership ends. While I am married (with 3 young children), and my husband is
my immediate partner in our life together and the raising of our family, my mom
is still my partner in many ways as well. We talk daily, and if I am in a
sticky situation or need an empathic listener, I often go to my mom. My mom and
I (at 57yo and 35yo) often now speak to one another as friends, and I value her
input and support so greatly. And I know that if I were to want my mom to come
with me while I talk with someone just in case I get flustered or stuck, that
she would be there in a heartbeat.
Lisa B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
social situations yesterday, and he's 24. Marty, 22, talked to me about
awkwardness talking to his girlfriend's dad, about some work he was doing for
him last fall and whether he should ask for a chance to do some more now that
it's getting warmer. Holly, 19, asked me to go with her to talk to someone
in January, just to be there in case she got flustered or stuck.)"
Once you have established yourself as a partner to your child, there isn't
necessarily (and hopefully not) an age for either parent or child when that
partnership ends. While I am married (with 3 young children), and my husband is
my immediate partner in our life together and the raising of our family, my mom
is still my partner in many ways as well. We talk daily, and if I am in a
sticky situation or need an empathic listener, I often go to my mom. My mom and
I (at 57yo and 35yo) often now speak to one another as friends, and I value her
input and support so greatly. And I know that if I were to want my mom to come
with me while I talk with someone just in case I get flustered or stuck, that
she would be there in a heartbeat.
Lisa B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Start yourself with respect at home for your husband, & children.
Honor, everyone's "no"or"stop"when it is safe.
A word like no or stop should always be respected: sovereignty over
his body helps him with other's expectations.Insure
reciprocation.Does he feel his body belongs to him?Other's bodies
belong to them?
My husband thought it difficult: respecting a child's body belongs to
himself.Rowan's body belonged to Rowan from birth. Later, he
began to use language to keep himself safe around other kids--as
words held power for him
John came around slowly. Other adults seemed to override kids wishes
and to my husband this was acceptable and made life easier for
parents.
Other kids had a harder time seeing boundaries.It was an
unintentional benefit of gentle parenting: I hoped our child would
learn people who love you don't hurt you;but he also learned about
others feelings.
Marina
Honor, everyone's "no"or"stop"when it is safe.
A word like no or stop should always be respected: sovereignty over
his body helps him with other's expectations.Insure
reciprocation.Does he feel his body belongs to him?Other's bodies
belong to them?
My husband thought it difficult: respecting a child's body belongs to
himself.Rowan's body belonged to Rowan from birth. Later, he
began to use language to keep himself safe around other kids--as
words held power for him
John came around slowly. Other adults seemed to override kids wishes
and to my husband this was acceptable and made life easier for
parents.
Other kids had a harder time seeing boundaries.It was an
unintentional benefit of gentle parenting: I hoped our child would
learn people who love you don't hurt you;but he also learned about
others feelings.
Marina
On 04/03/2011, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-> I learned to take his side - it was always someone else's fault. If I
>> listened to that and agreed with him, after a while, he'd change his own
>> mind...
>
> -=-How do I take his side without blaming the other child? Especially when
> the
> other child is near.
>
> -=-I don't think I ever thought about taking his side even when he was at
> fault.-=-
>
> I'm really hoping the first quote above was about being empathetic and going
> along with the idea that her own child wasn't at fault, for the purpose of
> hearing his side.
>
> When I've said "be your child's partner, not his adversary," I hope people
> haven't take from that to side with their child no matter how much in the
> wrong he was. I didn't mean that at all. I meant to help him navigate the
> world, just as you would help an adult friend in a tricky situation. And
> for very young children, most situations are tricky. They need ideas, and
> assistance.
>
> I don't think a parent should take a child's side in such a way that blames
> the other child. I think a parent should be a peacemaker. Robin C's
> example is good:
>
> -=-What always works better is to take Jayn aside or right away from the
> situation. Not to try to do any of this in front of other parents or kids.
>
> -=-When Jayn was much younger and had done something to hurt another child I
> would usually talk to that child, ask her if she was ok or to explain what
> happened and be comforting and apologetic, while having my arm around Jayn.
> Then she and I would go and talk it over in private.-=-
>
> What I did when there were problems between my own children is all written
> up here: http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
>
> What I did when it involved someone else was to help make the other child
> feel better, if we were in public and it was 'a member of my team' who
> caused distress, or if I wasn't there and heard about it afterwards, hear
> the child out, and ask questions--not in an accusatory, shaming way, but in
> a curious, clarifying way. Was there anything Kirby (for example, when he
> was eight) could have done to avoid the altercation? Were there others
> involved? What could they have done to have helped? Did he go to an adult
> for help? Discussing what went wrong helped him avoid similar ends in the
> future. I said "Next time, maybe..." a LOT when my kids were little.
> (Come to think of it, I still do. Kirby called to talk about a couple of
> social situations yesterday, and he's 24. Marty, 22, talked to me about
> awkwardness talking to his girlfriend's dad, about some work he was doing
> for him last fall and whether he should ask for a chance to do some more now
> that it's getting warmer. Holly, 19, asked me to go with her to talk to
> someone in January, just to be there in case she got flustered or stuck.)
>
> Take their side in ways that make their lives better, not in ways that
> justify carelessness or thoughtlessness.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
--
"Insomnia is almost an oasis in which those who have to think or suffer
darkly take refuge." --Colette--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
lylaw
my son was very similar at that age, and younger, and can still get physically annoying, in an overzealous, playful way, when he’s amped up about something, now, at at 12.5. he’s wasn’t, and still isn’t, very skilled at reading body language at all, and part of the problem was he often launched his “assaults” from behind, so couldn’t even see the other child’s face (he’s more sensitive to facial expression.) when he was younger, I did a few things to ensure peace and safety for others AND to protect his self esteem and relationships. first of all, we didn’t do a lot in groups, when groups weren’t working – when they were overstimulating, or a set up for problems, we just opted out. he did much better with one or two other kids. I also stuck close by and remained tuned in – and if I could catch an “assault” before it happened, I could often distract him with something else, or engage him physically to meet his need for physicality. if I missed the cue (he was FAST sometimes), he reacted very poorly to ME telling him to stop or get off someone (because sometimes his friends actually DID like it and they enjoyed roughhousing – and he felt invaded and judged prematurely if I did that), but I “trained” his close friends to say “I don’t like that” or “stop” if they didn’t like it. if I could tell by another kid’s face that they weren’t so much enjoying something, a verbal vote of confidence in my son’s good intentions, out loud, helped a lot – I would say something like “if you don’t like that, you can tell him to stop and he will stop right away” -that helped them avoid victim / perpetrator roles, and also cued my son into the expected response if the child said to stop. it worked well, quite often. or, sometimes I’d ask “is that ok with you ___ (friend’s name)?” and if they shook their head no, I could say to my son “he’s saying that’s not ok” – and that would enable him to let go/stop without feeling shame for his impulse that he couldn’t control. he didn’t WANT to hurt anyone or offend anyone, he just didn’t get that his friends weren’t enjoying whatever he was doing. if I got mad, or they got mad, he’d feel deep shame, and would turn that into intense anger, so it was really not an effective way to help him outgrow those tendencies.
the other thing I realized was that he really needed a lot of sensory input. so I would wrestle with him, and find lots of outlets for those experiences – hammering, carrying heavy things, pulling, biking, etc.
at 12.5 now, although he still sometimes overdoes the physicality with friends (and me!), he WILL stop immediately if asked to, and his friends are older too, and more capable of asking him to stop consistently, if they don’t like something.
I also had a lot of conversations with him before seeing people, as someone else mentioned – along the lines of “remember ___ doesn’t like the physical stuff so much, but ___ seems to enjoy it” - or “___ tends to feel pretty overwhelmed with rough play, and freezes and is unable to say stop. so it can help if you ask him if something’s ok first...”
but mostly, that stuff was important, but time and maturation were essential. and in the mean time, choosing settings for success was critical. good luck <3
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the other thing I realized was that he really needed a lot of sensory input. so I would wrestle with him, and find lots of outlets for those experiences – hammering, carrying heavy things, pulling, biking, etc.
at 12.5 now, although he still sometimes overdoes the physicality with friends (and me!), he WILL stop immediately if asked to, and his friends are older too, and more capable of asking him to stop consistently, if they don’t like something.
I also had a lot of conversations with him before seeing people, as someone else mentioned – along the lines of “remember ___ doesn’t like the physical stuff so much, but ___ seems to enjoy it” - or “___ tends to feel pretty overwhelmed with rough play, and freezes and is unable to say stop. so it can help if you ask him if something’s ok first...”
but mostly, that stuff was important, but time and maturation were essential. and in the mean time, choosing settings for success was critical. good luck <3
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-he didn�t WANT to hurt anyone or offend anyone, he just didn�t get that his friends weren�t enjoying whatever he was doing-=-
Our policy at home was "it's only playing if everyone's playing." Or "If one person's not having fun anymore, it's not fun.
-=the other thing I realized was that he really needed a lot of sensory input. so I would wrestle with him, and find lots of outlets for those experiences � hammering, carrying heavy things, pulling, biking, etc. -=-
I meant to put this link up earlier. Glad for the reminder.
http://sandradodd.com/physicality/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Our policy at home was "it's only playing if everyone's playing." Or "If one person's not having fun anymore, it's not fun.
-=the other thing I realized was that he really needed a lot of sensory input. so I would wrestle with him, and find lots of outlets for those experiences � hammering, carrying heavy things, pulling, biking, etc. -=-
I meant to put this link up earlier. Glad for the reminder.
http://sandradodd.com/physicality/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Linda
How do I take his side without blaming the other child? Especially when the
other child is near.
Oh, if the other child is near, I would work on making sure the child is OK and apologizing for any hurt/discomfort/inconvenience. It would be later that we'd talk about it in private. If he said a kid just walked up to him and kicked him, I wouldn't argue, even if I saw something different - at least not a first. I'd be all horrified on my kid's behalf. He felt injured in that moment and if I contradicted him, he would still fell injured and resent me. And I guess, in the situation you describe, we'd talk about it and I would ask - what do you think made that horrible child do such a terrible thing to you? Oh my, you both seemed to be playing so well! Why would anyone want to do such a thing to you? And at some point, he would say - well, maybe it was because I pulled on his hoodie...
OR maybe not. But I would take what he said seriously and make interactions between my kids and kids they didn't get along with few and heavily supervised. To me, it didn't necessarily matter who started it of whose fault it was or anything like that. If the mixture of the two kids meant bad things were going to happen, then that mixture should not be happening or should be closely monitored. if it was just a mixup, the kids would work it out.
I wish there was a better way of putting it because "taking his side" sounds so aggressive. It would be more like I'd communicate that I heard him and sympathized with the bind he was in. And once he really believed that, he could move on and get the work done of seeing how he contributed to the situation.
other child is near.
Oh, if the other child is near, I would work on making sure the child is OK and apologizing for any hurt/discomfort/inconvenience. It would be later that we'd talk about it in private. If he said a kid just walked up to him and kicked him, I wouldn't argue, even if I saw something different - at least not a first. I'd be all horrified on my kid's behalf. He felt injured in that moment and if I contradicted him, he would still fell injured and resent me. And I guess, in the situation you describe, we'd talk about it and I would ask - what do you think made that horrible child do such a terrible thing to you? Oh my, you both seemed to be playing so well! Why would anyone want to do such a thing to you? And at some point, he would say - well, maybe it was because I pulled on his hoodie...
OR maybe not. But I would take what he said seriously and make interactions between my kids and kids they didn't get along with few and heavily supervised. To me, it didn't necessarily matter who started it of whose fault it was or anything like that. If the mixture of the two kids meant bad things were going to happen, then that mixture should not be happening or should be closely monitored. if it was just a mixup, the kids would work it out.
I wish there was a better way of putting it because "taking his side" sounds so aggressive. It would be more like I'd communicate that I heard him and sympathized with the bind he was in. And once he really believed that, he could move on and get the work done of seeing how he contributed to the situation.
Sandra Dodd
-=-and I would ask - what do you think made that horrible child do such a terrible thing to you? ...
OR maybe not. ... It would be more like I'd communicate that I heard him and sympathized with the bind he was in. And once he really believed that, he could move on and get the work done of seeing how he contributed to the situation.-=-
The problem with saying anything like "that horrible child" and "terrible" thing is that the child could settle into the idea that his mother was going to defend aggression and "support" the child at any cost.
He might get other work done, and file it under, "Well I WAS right; that kid is horrible and terrible."
It also moves into depersonalization and labels. Saying "What do you think made Jesse do that?" might be a better way to go.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
OR maybe not. ... It would be more like I'd communicate that I heard him and sympathized with the bind he was in. And once he really believed that, he could move on and get the work done of seeing how he contributed to the situation.-=-
The problem with saying anything like "that horrible child" and "terrible" thing is that the child could settle into the idea that his mother was going to defend aggression and "support" the child at any cost.
He might get other work done, and file it under, "Well I WAS right; that kid is horrible and terrible."
It also moves into depersonalization and labels. Saying "What do you think made Jesse do that?" might be a better way to go.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Marina DeLuca-Howard <
delucahoward@...> wrote:
When my son got older (esp. 8-12) we had a lot of talks about seeing things
from another person's perspective and how much bigger and stronger he was
getting day to day. It is hard to keep up with. My son started taking
traditional Kung fu and it has helped him learn his own physical boundaries
and gave him a sense of his expanding physicality.
I also made it very clear to both of my children that any uninvited physical
contact was NOT okay. We are living in an age where children are charged
with sex offenses because they grabbed another child's bra band and snapped
it. The deck is stacked against boys because they are so often seen as
aggressors. I remember when I was in college and a women's group put up
posters stating that "Every man is a potential rapist". We have to make
sure that our boys learn how to navigate this often confusing world.
I used to worry that my son had an issue because when he was 8 or so he just
didn't seem to get that his behavior was over the top and offensive to other
children. Then I started watching other boys that same age and realized
that it seems to be a common problem. My theory is that at that time boys
are just starting to get "big" and more muscular and their ability to know
physical boundaries just doesn't keep up.
My husband felt that involvement in some sort of physical discipline that
required physical work as well as thought was part of the solution.
My son could not handle team sports, it was too much stimulus, he couldn't
keep up with all of the bodies and action. Hence the Kung fu. We started
with a tae kwon do class, but that class used a lot of loud music and had
the kids running circles for most of the class. NOT a good match. The
school he is in now is much more traditional and quiet, but requires more
physical work and the teachers are all very supportive and encouraging.
There is no pressure to meet deadlines, just to keep improving your own
ability and challenging yourself. My son has learned how to self monitor
and through plain old development and practice seems better able to read
cues at the age of 14. So it does take time and work.
chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
delucahoward@...> wrote:
>Modeling is important for all types of respect and boundaries.
>
> >>>>>>Other adults seemed to override kids wishes<<<<
>
> ... especially around physical contact. Drove me crazy when my kids were
> small. I never forced my children to hug or kiss relatives. Right from
> infancy, if the child did not want physical contact, they had that right. I
> had to explain that sometimes.
>
When my son got older (esp. 8-12) we had a lot of talks about seeing things
from another person's perspective and how much bigger and stronger he was
getting day to day. It is hard to keep up with. My son started taking
traditional Kung fu and it has helped him learn his own physical boundaries
and gave him a sense of his expanding physicality.
I also made it very clear to both of my children that any uninvited physical
contact was NOT okay. We are living in an age where children are charged
with sex offenses because they grabbed another child's bra band and snapped
it. The deck is stacked against boys because they are so often seen as
aggressors. I remember when I was in college and a women's group put up
posters stating that "Every man is a potential rapist". We have to make
sure that our boys learn how to navigate this often confusing world.
I used to worry that my son had an issue because when he was 8 or so he just
didn't seem to get that his behavior was over the top and offensive to other
children. Then I started watching other boys that same age and realized
that it seems to be a common problem. My theory is that at that time boys
are just starting to get "big" and more muscular and their ability to know
physical boundaries just doesn't keep up.
My husband felt that involvement in some sort of physical discipline that
required physical work as well as thought was part of the solution.
My son could not handle team sports, it was too much stimulus, he couldn't
keep up with all of the bodies and action. Hence the Kung fu. We started
with a tae kwon do class, but that class used a lot of loud music and had
the kids running circles for most of the class. NOT a good match. The
school he is in now is much more traditional and quiet, but requires more
physical work and the teachers are all very supportive and encouraging.
There is no pressure to meet deadlines, just to keep improving your own
ability and challenging yourself. My son has learned how to self monitor
and through plain old development and practice seems better able to read
cues at the age of 14. So it does take time and work.
chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lylaw
From: Sandra Dodd
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 9:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: impulse control in an eight-year-old boy
-=-and I would ask - what do you think made that horrible child do such a terrible thing to you? ...
OR maybe not. ... It would be more like I'd communicate that I heard him and sympathized with the bind he was in. And once he really believed that, he could move on and get the work done of seeing how he contributed to the situation.-=-
The problem with saying anything like "that horrible child" and "terrible" thing is that the child could settle into the idea that his mother was going to defend aggression and "support" the child at any cost.
He might get other work done, and file it under, "Well I WAS right; that kid is horrible and terrible."=====
the other problem I see with that kind of labeling is that he might turn it around and apply it to himself – either in that situation, when he realizes he did something aggressive, or in a different situation, and begin to question whether HE is a horrible child who does terrible things. I would personally steer far clear of calling any child horrible, and instead I try to help my kids see the sometimes not so obvious motivations behind seemingly “horrible” actions. that said, I do definitely get the “taking his side” thing, and my son needed that too. not so much for me to be enraged on his behalf, but definitely just listen to his perspective and not argue it or try to counter it, before he was ready.
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 9:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: impulse control in an eight-year-old boy
-=-and I would ask - what do you think made that horrible child do such a terrible thing to you? ...
OR maybe not. ... It would be more like I'd communicate that I heard him and sympathized with the bind he was in. And once he really believed that, he could move on and get the work done of seeing how he contributed to the situation.-=-
The problem with saying anything like "that horrible child" and "terrible" thing is that the child could settle into the idea that his mother was going to defend aggression and "support" the child at any cost.
He might get other work done, and file it under, "Well I WAS right; that kid is horrible and terrible."=====
the other problem I see with that kind of labeling is that he might turn it around and apply it to himself – either in that situation, when he realizes he did something aggressive, or in a different situation, and begin to question whether HE is a horrible child who does terrible things. I would personally steer far clear of calling any child horrible, and instead I try to help my kids see the sometimes not so obvious motivations behind seemingly “horrible” actions. that said, I do definitely get the “taking his side” thing, and my son needed that too. not so much for me to be enraged on his behalf, but definitely just listen to his perspective and not argue it or try to counter it, before he was ready.
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- I do definitely get the �taking his side� thing, and my son needed that too. not so much for me to be enraged on his behalf, but definitely just listen to his perspective and not argue it or try to counter it, before he was ready. -=-
I do that too, especially in social situations, now that mine are all older. A few times lately I've listened to long stories that seem clearly headed to the point where one of my kids lost patience and wasn't as helpful or centered as he or she would've liked. And I listen until it gets there, and see them realize it as the story is reviewed, and so though the story starts off at the point that they were indignant at other people's frustrating-whatever, it can end in "I wish I had done something different."
So it's not "taking their side" so much as not jumping in too quickly to guess the end, and not taking the other kids' side "just to balance the discussion." Sometimes it's not a discussion. It can sometimes be a debriefing and confession.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I do that too, especially in social situations, now that mine are all older. A few times lately I've listened to long stories that seem clearly headed to the point where one of my kids lost patience and wasn't as helpful or centered as he or she would've liked. And I listen until it gets there, and see them realize it as the story is reviewed, and so though the story starts off at the point that they were indignant at other people's frustrating-whatever, it can end in "I wish I had done something different."
So it's not "taking their side" so much as not jumping in too quickly to guess the end, and not taking the other kids' side "just to balance the discussion." Sometimes it's not a discussion. It can sometimes be a debriefing and confession.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lylaw
-----Original Message-----
So it's not "taking their side" so much as not jumping in too quickly to
guess the end, and not taking the other kids' side "just to balance the
discussion." Sometimes it's not a discussion. It can sometimes be a
debriefing and confession.=========
yes! and sometimes it didn't end in any realization or confession, and my
son still wasn't ready to hear my perspective on the situation, and his role
in it. sometime it was hours or days - or even longer. and sometimes, he'd
clearly come to a different understanding about it, later, but didn't want
to discuss it, just wanted to act differently in future similar
interactions.
lyla
So it's not "taking their side" so much as not jumping in too quickly to
guess the end, and not taking the other kids' side "just to balance the
discussion." Sometimes it's not a discussion. It can sometimes be a
debriefing and confession.=========
yes! and sometimes it didn't end in any realization or confession, and my
son still wasn't ready to hear my perspective on the situation, and his role
in it. sometime it was hours or days - or even longer. and sometimes, he'd
clearly come to a different understanding about it, later, but didn't want
to discuss it, just wanted to act differently in future similar
interactions.
lyla