an interesting article on sleep
Sandra Dodd
Someone I'm visiting this summer was writing to me about her dietary practices (I had requested English bacon, and she can do that!). At the blog she cited, I found an article with various sorts of evidence (including linguistic--my fave) that it has long been natural human behavior to wake up halfway through an eight-hour sleep. GOOD! I wake up about 3:20 every night, and have felt wrong, ashamed, that something wasn't right.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/biphasic-sleep/
Now I can feel much better about that waking up.
The comments are fun, too. I left one with a link to my sleep page.
There is a mention in there of 30% of... [people? those in treatment for...?] people are insomniac. But if they sleep four hours and wake up (especially if it's 30% or more--if that number was people reporting or being treated or "identified insomniac" :-) ), maybe it's NORMAL!! Healthy. Right and good. Then they sleep another four hours, after a little break (to pee, or think, or get a snack).
The note I left is:
I like the sentinal theory. I�ve often thought that teenagers� propensity to stay up late might have been very useful in �the old days� (caves, camps or castles) because they could keep watch while they talked to each other. And their sleeping in the daytime while others are awake is seen as sloth in modern days by too many people, but I think as long as they get sleep, it shouldn�t matter so much what time it is. http://sandradodd.com/sleep
I misspelled sentinel. I suppose people won't lose sleep over that. :-)
There's a link in the notes to a TED talk on sleep (very brief):
http://www.ted.com/talks/jessa_gamble_how_to_sleep.html
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/biphasic-sleep/
Now I can feel much better about that waking up.
The comments are fun, too. I left one with a link to my sleep page.
There is a mention in there of 30% of... [people? those in treatment for...?] people are insomniac. But if they sleep four hours and wake up (especially if it's 30% or more--if that number was people reporting or being treated or "identified insomniac" :-) ), maybe it's NORMAL!! Healthy. Right and good. Then they sleep another four hours, after a little break (to pee, or think, or get a snack).
The note I left is:
I like the sentinal theory. I�ve often thought that teenagers� propensity to stay up late might have been very useful in �the old days� (caves, camps or castles) because they could keep watch while they talked to each other. And their sleeping in the daytime while others are awake is seen as sloth in modern days by too many people, but I think as long as they get sleep, it shouldn�t matter so much what time it is. http://sandradodd.com/sleep
I misspelled sentinel. I suppose people won't lose sleep over that. :-)
There's a link in the notes to a TED talk on sleep (very brief):
http://www.ted.com/talks/jessa_gamble_how_to_sleep.html
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wtexans
===http://www.marksdailyapple.com/biphasic-sleep/ ===
Interesting article!
The article and the comments I read (a good number of them, but not all of them) focused on adults (other than Sandra's comment). I'm curious if anyone's kids, those beyond napping age, wake up like this partway through their sleep?
Glenda
Interesting article!
The article and the comments I read (a good number of them, but not all of them) focused on adults (other than Sandra's comment). I'm curious if anyone's kids, those beyond napping age, wake up like this partway through their sleep?
Glenda
chris ester
My kids usually only wake when a small explosion is set off near them. That
being said, I have noticed that when they are in the midst of a growth spurt
(DS 14, DD 12) they do sleep for a shorter span of time and end up taking
naps. My theory is that they get hungry and wake up to eat because they are
burning more calories. I also noticed that in the days leading up to a
growth spurt, they sleep a lot, sometimes as much as 11 hours. Otherwise,
they get about 8 to 9 hours in a night.
Chris
being said, I have noticed that when they are in the midst of a growth spurt
(DS 14, DD 12) they do sleep for a shorter span of time and end up taking
naps. My theory is that they get hungry and wake up to eat because they are
burning more calories. I also noticed that in the days leading up to a
growth spurt, they sleep a lot, sometimes as much as 11 hours. Otherwise,
they get about 8 to 9 hours in a night.
Chris
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 11:49 PM, wtexans <wtexans@...> wrote:
>
>
> ===http://www.marksdailyapple.com/biphasic-sleep/ ===
>
> Interesting article!
>
> The article and the comments I read (a good number of them, but not all of
> them) focused on adults (other than Sandra's comment). I'm curious if
> anyone's kids, those beyond napping age, wake up like this partway through
> their sleep?
>
> Glenda
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<The article and the comments I read (a good number of them, but not all of
them) focused on adults (other than Sandra's comment). I'm curious if anyone's
kids, those beyond napping age, wake up like this partway through their sleep?>
Gigi used to but not anymore but me I do wake up like that everynight. All my
life.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
them) focused on adults (other than Sandra's comment). I'm curious if anyone's
kids, those beyond napping age, wake up like this partway through their sleep?>
Gigi used to but not anymore but me I do wake up like that everynight. All my
life.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Yes, both my kids and myself do. I've been told it has to do with a brain chemical T4 not converting well over to T3 (hope I got the order right there). I have primary insomnia and have all my life. I have found the family bed helps with their waking as they are comforted and can more easily go back to sleep (usually).
Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�
-----Original Message-----
From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 22:06:13
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: an interesting article on sleep
<The article and the comments I read (a good number of them, but not all of
them) focused on adults (other than Sandra's comment). I'm curious if anyone's
kids, those beyond napping age, wake up like this partway through their sleep?>
Gigi�used to but not anymore but me I do wake up like that�everynight. All my
life.
�
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�
-----Original Message-----
From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 22:06:13
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: an interesting article on sleep
<The article and the comments I read (a good number of them, but not all of
them) focused on adults (other than Sandra's comment). I'm curious if anyone's
kids, those beyond napping age, wake up like this partway through their sleep?>
Gigi�used to but not anymore but me I do wake up like that�everynight. All my
life.
�
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-. I've been told it has to do with a brain chemical T4 not converting well over to T3 (hope I got the order right there). I have primary insomnia and have all my life.-=-
Well it might be you've been told something normal is "a condition"! Maybe T4 (whatever it is) is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. It's possible.
Sandra
Well it might be you've been told something normal is "a condition"! Maybe T4 (whatever it is) is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. It's possible.
Sandra
lalow
My son Ben, didnt sleep through the night till he was over 6. He is 8 now and still wakes up a few nights a week. Now that he is getting older he doesnt necessary wake me up. He sleeps in his own room alot now so he wakes up and reads or plays his ds. He mentions it the next day sometimes otherwise I wouldnt know it. He typically gets tired and goes to bed about 9 and gets up about 7 or 8.
My youngest son, who is 5, doesnt wake up for anything, he even throwsup in his sleep if he is sick.
My youngest son, who is 5, doesnt wake up for anything, he even throwsup in his sleep if he is sick.
--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
> <The article and the comments I read (a good number of them, but not all of
> them) focused on adults (other than Sandra's comment). I'm curious if anyone's
> kids, those beyond napping age, wake up like this partway through their sleep?>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gigi used to but not anymore but me I do wake up like that everynight. All my
> life.
>
> Alex Polikowsky
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
sheeboo2
-----I'm curious if anyone's kids, those beyond napping age, wake up like this partway through their sleep?-----
Yes. Noor's waking in the middle of the night as a baby was our first clue that 'conventional parenting' practices were painful/stifling for her.
When she was learning to pour, she would wake up in the middle of the night and want to go downstairs, to our water jug, where she'd sit for an hour pouring water from the jug into cups.
When she was learning to crawl, she'd wake up in the middle of the night to practice crawling. The same thing happened with walking and talking, as well as other things.
Often, she'd want a snack as well. She was constantly moving as a younger baby/child, and never nursed/ate much while she was awake, so midnight snacks were a huge part of her diet.
Often, the things she was practicing at night, weren't things she would do during the day. She crawled/walked at night before she did it during the day!
And, as we quickly learned, trying to make her go back to sleep before she was done was impossible. She would cry or scream or cry and scream for that "window" of time, unless she was doing whatever it was she needed to do. There was nothing we could have done to make her go back to sleep!
Now that Noor is 7.5yr, she still wakes up in the middle of the night. Most often, she gets up to draw something she dreamed about or because she remembers something she forgot to add to a drawing.
The drawings she does in the middle of the night have a very different quality than the ones she does in the daytime. All her work is stunning, but the midnight ones are even more so.
She is never fully awake in the same way she is during the day. It is a strange wakefulness that is fully focused on *something.* Others have described it as "other-worldly." But she isn't sleep walking, either.
I've been meaning to go and read that article--
Brie
Yes. Noor's waking in the middle of the night as a baby was our first clue that 'conventional parenting' practices were painful/stifling for her.
When she was learning to pour, she would wake up in the middle of the night and want to go downstairs, to our water jug, where she'd sit for an hour pouring water from the jug into cups.
When she was learning to crawl, she'd wake up in the middle of the night to practice crawling. The same thing happened with walking and talking, as well as other things.
Often, she'd want a snack as well. She was constantly moving as a younger baby/child, and never nursed/ate much while she was awake, so midnight snacks were a huge part of her diet.
Often, the things she was practicing at night, weren't things she would do during the day. She crawled/walked at night before she did it during the day!
And, as we quickly learned, trying to make her go back to sleep before she was done was impossible. She would cry or scream or cry and scream for that "window" of time, unless she was doing whatever it was she needed to do. There was nothing we could have done to make her go back to sleep!
Now that Noor is 7.5yr, she still wakes up in the middle of the night. Most often, she gets up to draw something she dreamed about or because she remembers something she forgot to add to a drawing.
The drawings she does in the middle of the night have a very different quality than the ones she does in the daytime. All her work is stunning, but the midnight ones are even more so.
She is never fully awake in the same way she is during the day. It is a strange wakefulness that is fully focused on *something.* Others have described it as "other-worldly." But she isn't sleep walking, either.
I've been meaning to go and read that article--
Brie
[email protected]
How very true. I tend to question everything. I have accepted that I don't sleep well and neither do my girls. Brain chemicals are supposedly supposed to kick in at certain times of the night to make us sleepy. I don't know. I just know I am grateful for learning how to enjoy my own personal quiet moments while the house is asleep and I lay there quietly watching the moon through my skylight.
Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 06:13:41
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: an interesting article on sleep
-=-. I've been told it has to do with a brain chemical T4 not converting well over to T3 (hope I got the order right there). I have primary insomnia and have all my life.-=-
Well it might be you've been told something normal is "a condition"! Maybe T4 (whatever it is) is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. It's possible.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 06:13:41
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: an interesting article on sleep
-=-. I've been told it has to do with a brain chemical T4 not converting well over to T3 (hope I got the order right there). I have primary insomnia and have all my life.-=-
Well it might be you've been told something normal is "a condition"! Maybe T4 (whatever it is) is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. It's possible.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=------I'm curious if anyone's kids, those beyond napping age, wake up like this partway through their sleep?------=-
Kirby did, when he was young. Many times, I put him in a high chair with food and a long video, and a blanket, and would go back to bed (pregnant, or with Marty), and Kirby would fall back to sleep in the high chair with the blanket as a pillow.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kirby did, when he was young. Many times, I put him in a high chair with food and a long video, and a blanket, and would go back to bed (pregnant, or with Marty), and Kirby would fall back to sleep in the high chair with the blanket as a pillow.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa E Biesemeyer
"I'm curious if anyone's kids, those beyond napping age, wake up like this
partway through their sleep?"
Rowan (4.5yo) has not napped since she was 22mo and night-nursing weaned around
3yo. She sleeps in a twin bed next to our king family bed. I am up often
throughout the night nursing and comforting my 15mo twins, so I am aware of
Rowan's sleep rhythms. She goes to sleep between 7 and 9pm with her brothers
and me, then sleeps very soundly (no movement or slight shifting) for about 5-6
hours. At that time, she often becomes "restless" and kicks her covers off,
moans and groans, talks a bit, and some times wakes to go to the potty or asks
for a drink. After this brief interlude (no more than 10 minutes or so), she is
back to sleep, again quite soundly, for another 5-6 hours.
The article also mentioned that the city ambient light often wakes people up or
keeps them up later in the evening/night. We do not have this issue in our home
(except for my husband, who works until 11 or 1am and then "unwinds" until some
times 2 or 3am). The youngest two fall asleep in the rocking chair between 6
and 8pm, and Rowan and I are off to bed with them within an hour of that. Our
bedroom is purposefully dark, cool (to get and keep us under the covers), free
from toys (with the exception of a few stuffies for Rowan), books, and media,
white-noise filled, and loaded with covers, pillows, and mattresses for comfort.
I have found that this really does aid in putting to sleep and keeping asleep
everyone in our family pretty well. This atmosphere also keeps my husband
asleep into the morning hours, so that he gets the sleep he needs, but it
doesn't keep my kids or me from waking up with the daylight. Of course, as
everyone gets older and more independent, this will likely change.
Lisa B
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
partway through their sleep?"
Rowan (4.5yo) has not napped since she was 22mo and night-nursing weaned around
3yo. She sleeps in a twin bed next to our king family bed. I am up often
throughout the night nursing and comforting my 15mo twins, so I am aware of
Rowan's sleep rhythms. She goes to sleep between 7 and 9pm with her brothers
and me, then sleeps very soundly (no movement or slight shifting) for about 5-6
hours. At that time, she often becomes "restless" and kicks her covers off,
moans and groans, talks a bit, and some times wakes to go to the potty or asks
for a drink. After this brief interlude (no more than 10 minutes or so), she is
back to sleep, again quite soundly, for another 5-6 hours.
The article also mentioned that the city ambient light often wakes people up or
keeps them up later in the evening/night. We do not have this issue in our home
(except for my husband, who works until 11 or 1am and then "unwinds" until some
times 2 or 3am). The youngest two fall asleep in the rocking chair between 6
and 8pm, and Rowan and I are off to bed with them within an hour of that. Our
bedroom is purposefully dark, cool (to get and keep us under the covers), free
from toys (with the exception of a few stuffies for Rowan), books, and media,
white-noise filled, and loaded with covers, pillows, and mattresses for comfort.
I have found that this really does aid in putting to sleep and keeping asleep
everyone in our family pretty well. This atmosphere also keeps my husband
asleep into the morning hours, so that he gets the sleep he needs, but it
doesn't keep my kids or me from waking up with the daylight. Of course, as
everyone gets older and more independent, this will likely change.
Lisa B
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chris ester
It seems to me that the older I get the more that "normal" seems to be a
construct invented to create a 'need' for experts to "treat" what is not
"normal". No one in my family of origin had "normal" sleep patterns. None
of us slept for more than 6 hours in a 24 hour period and that was me, the
'sleepiest' of all of us. My mother and brother only slept about 4 hours in
the night and my mom would sometimes nap for an hour in the day. I can't
remember how much sleep my father got.
We just took it for granted that we were 'normal' for us and got on with
life. It wasn't until I was in college working on my psych degree that I
realized that people get treatment for sleep patterns like that of my
family's.
I now sleep more, but I really think that it is due to my sinuses and
allergies being so bad that I do not breathe well. I usually wake after
about 5 or 6 hours of sleep, but am so tired that I go back to bed after a
trip to the restroom and a drink of water.
My kids left our family bed a couple of years ago, so I can't be sure if
they wake now or not. Thinking about it now, my son occasionally mentions
that he woke up in the night and had trouble getting back to sleep. I don't
think that that is the same thing though. If he is tired, I suggest a nap.
Again, we tend to go with what makes us happiest, and try not to stress out
about not being "normal".
Chris
construct invented to create a 'need' for experts to "treat" what is not
"normal". No one in my family of origin had "normal" sleep patterns. None
of us slept for more than 6 hours in a 24 hour period and that was me, the
'sleepiest' of all of us. My mother and brother only slept about 4 hours in
the night and my mom would sometimes nap for an hour in the day. I can't
remember how much sleep my father got.
We just took it for granted that we were 'normal' for us and got on with
life. It wasn't until I was in college working on my psych degree that I
realized that people get treatment for sleep patterns like that of my
family's.
I now sleep more, but I really think that it is due to my sinuses and
allergies being so bad that I do not breathe well. I usually wake after
about 5 or 6 hours of sleep, but am so tired that I go back to bed after a
trip to the restroom and a drink of water.
My kids left our family bed a couple of years ago, so I can't be sure if
they wake now or not. Thinking about it now, my son occasionally mentions
that he woke up in the night and had trouble getting back to sleep. I don't
think that that is the same thing though. If he is tired, I suggest a nap.
Again, we tend to go with what makes us happiest, and try not to stress out
about not being "normal".
Chris
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> -=-. I've been told it has to do with a brain chemical T4 not converting
> well over to T3 (hope I got the order right there). I have primary insomnia
> and have all my life.-=-
>
> Well it might be you've been told something normal is "a condition"! Maybe
> T4 (whatever it is) is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. It's
> possible.
>
> Sandra
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]