When to say how much about what
Sandra Dodd
The other day I wrote, "I know some parents discuss with their children why they're discussing with their children what they're discussing. Very meta-discussion. Kids are too young to be back stage. If you tell them what you're doing and why, I think it's too much for them to consider."
I hadn't mentioned that here at home.
Yesterday Marty said with light humor in a conversation involving me, him and Holly, " "If only more talking were the solution to all that!" It's hard to describe how he said it, but it was not mocking or mean. He said it with a tone of wistful desire for it to be true, as he might if he were saying "If only we had a jack," during a flat tire situation. Holly was the one doing the too-much-talking, but the way he said it didn't even make her defensive. The whole conversation and situation had a balance of stress, frustration, love, humor, we were all hungry, we were all making food, there had been misunderstandings... And we all remained calm and happy. Later Marty told me he thought it had gone really well.
Katherine A. recommended a book she liked, and I got a copy to read before I speak at a marriage conference in a week and a half. It's called "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It." She recommended it with some reservations, but it seems to have good ideas about changing one's behavior and attitudes, as we often discuss here.
I had an English professor I stayed friends with for life. He was separated from his wife for a while 20 years ago and talked to me about it, and I helped him consider getting back together. They're going to New Zealand for their 50th wedding anniversary in a couple of months. I didn't mention him to tell that story, though it (as most things are) is related.
He used to say "Three trees make a row." He was talking about literary analysis, not about math (where three trees are more likely to make a triangle). For me this week, though, the "three trees" that created the pattern were those above.
Talking is important! Too much talking can be as harmful as no talking at all.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
(again; still)
Sandra
I hadn't mentioned that here at home.
Yesterday Marty said with light humor in a conversation involving me, him and Holly, " "If only more talking were the solution to all that!" It's hard to describe how he said it, but it was not mocking or mean. He said it with a tone of wistful desire for it to be true, as he might if he were saying "If only we had a jack," during a flat tire situation. Holly was the one doing the too-much-talking, but the way he said it didn't even make her defensive. The whole conversation and situation had a balance of stress, frustration, love, humor, we were all hungry, we were all making food, there had been misunderstandings... And we all remained calm and happy. Later Marty told me he thought it had gone really well.
Katherine A. recommended a book she liked, and I got a copy to read before I speak at a marriage conference in a week and a half. It's called "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It." She recommended it with some reservations, but it seems to have good ideas about changing one's behavior and attitudes, as we often discuss here.
I had an English professor I stayed friends with for life. He was separated from his wife for a while 20 years ago and talked to me about it, and I helped him consider getting back together. They're going to New Zealand for their 50th wedding anniversary in a couple of months. I didn't mention him to tell that story, though it (as most things are) is related.
He used to say "Three trees make a row." He was talking about literary analysis, not about math (where three trees are more likely to make a triangle). For me this week, though, the "three trees" that created the pattern were those above.
Talking is important! Too much talking can be as harmful as no talking at all.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
(again; still)
Sandra
alohabun
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
I grew up with two phrases that don't go together very well:
1. Talk about it. (as if that could solve everything even war)
2. Actions speak louder than words
In order for a person to improve their marriage without talking about it (without reading the book to find out if that is what is suggested), a person might take positive actions that they think will make changes for the better. They likely know their spouse well enough to know what he/she would like and can do what would bring feelings of being cared for, feeling loved and feelings of appreciation.
Taking action (instead of too much talking going around in circles that doesn't really accomplish anything) requires us to go ahead and do what we think will be helpful. It truly puts the ball in our court as we can only change ourselves.
Laurie
>Too much talking is done sometimes when we want to change others (get them to agree with us - as if they will surely come to some sudden realization that we are right). Sometimes it is to make sure they understand why we did something so they will accept that we have the best of intentions or better understand the choices we made.
> " "If only more talking were the solution to all that!"
> "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It."
>
> Talking is important! Too much talking can be as harmful as no talking at all.
>
I grew up with two phrases that don't go together very well:
1. Talk about it. (as if that could solve everything even war)
2. Actions speak louder than words
In order for a person to improve their marriage without talking about it (without reading the book to find out if that is what is suggested), a person might take positive actions that they think will make changes for the better. They likely know their spouse well enough to know what he/she would like and can do what would bring feelings of being cared for, feeling loved and feelings of appreciation.
Taking action (instead of too much talking going around in circles that doesn't really accomplish anything) requires us to go ahead and do what we think will be helpful. It truly puts the ball in our court as we can only change ourselves.
Laurie
[email protected]
>Whenever anyone I know has gotten married and has asked if I have any advice, I only say this: contrary to the popular platitude, please go to bed angry. Talking something to death, especially when one of you just wants to go to sleep, is, in my experience, *never* helpful. So many times, we've woken up the day after and said something like, "So, you done?" and laughed and moved on.
>--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>> Talking is important! Too much talking can be as harmful as no talking at all.
If it's important, talk about it when everyone's calm and rested. Works so much better for my children, too.
Michelle
Wife to Bob
Momma to George (12), Theo (9), Eli (6), and Oliver (18 mo)
If my life wasn't funny, it would just be true, and that's unacceptable.
-- Carrie Fisher
Sandra Dodd
-=-Whenever anyone I know has gotten married and has asked if I have any advice, I only say this: contrary to the popular platitude, please go to bed angry. Talking something to death, especially when one of you just wants to go to sleep, is, in my experience, *never* helpful.-=-
I agree. I haven't given it as that kind of advice, but I have disputed it when people have quoted it to me. Sometimes one or both of the people really needs sleep, or to watch TV a while, or to cry. Talking leads to people saying things that can't be forgotten.
My default advice to new couples is to invest in many pairs of scissors, and never argue about scissors. Once I gave half a dozen pairs of nice scissors to a new couple with a note about it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I agree. I haven't given it as that kind of advice, but I have disputed it when people have quoted it to me. Sometimes one or both of the people really needs sleep, or to watch TV a while, or to cry. Talking leads to people saying things that can't be forgotten.
My default advice to new couples is to invest in many pairs of scissors, and never argue about scissors. Once I gave half a dozen pairs of nice scissors to a new couple with a note about it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meryl Ranzer
*Talking is important! Too much talking can be as harmful as no talking at all.*
I was reading this thread with Logan sitting next to me, and I wanted to go upstairs and lay down and watch TV together, so we could relax and fall asleep.
He asked to watch Toy Story 2 on the computer.
We were both tired, I know I was, and he started rubbing his ears, which is a sign that he was too.
We can't watch it in the bedroom because we don't own the DVD, so we watch it on youtube, in 9 parts. I have to keep clicking on the next part for him. (I will be buying the DVD after this!)
I told Logan that I was really tired, and suggest we go watch TV upstairs, he started crying really hard, really fast.
He did not want to go upstairs, he only wanted to watch Toy Story 2 on the computer.
I stuck to my guns, because at that moment I put my needs before his, and I was staying with it.
I tried to reason and talk to him calmly, he just cried more.
I suggested we start watching the movie, and see how it goes, a compromise.
He said he did not want to compromise, and he cried harder.
I felt terrible to see him so upset when I could have said yes in the first place knowing he would probably fall asleep watching the movie.
I asked if I could hold him hoping that would calm him down, but looking back, that was for me, not him.
He needed space at that moment.
My last ditch effort at holding onto my position was to tell him that we'd watch the movie, but I wanted to talk with him about it.
He said simply that he did not want to talk, and that snapped me out of my own "tantrum".
I realized that I was sitting at the computer , reading this list, which I enjoy, I could do it for a bit longer.
I apologized, held him, and told him I love him. I could have said more, but I put on the movie, and that was enough for Logan.
This does not happen often, so when it does, we move on pretty quickly.
One of the things my husband Paul has said he loves about me is that I get that most guys hate to hear these four words, "We have to talk".
And here I was trying to pull that with my 4 year old son.
I realized I could have prevented the upset, or at least ended it sooner, had I listened to Logan's needs instead of talking so much.
Meryl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was reading this thread with Logan sitting next to me, and I wanted to go upstairs and lay down and watch TV together, so we could relax and fall asleep.
He asked to watch Toy Story 2 on the computer.
We were both tired, I know I was, and he started rubbing his ears, which is a sign that he was too.
We can't watch it in the bedroom because we don't own the DVD, so we watch it on youtube, in 9 parts. I have to keep clicking on the next part for him. (I will be buying the DVD after this!)
I told Logan that I was really tired, and suggest we go watch TV upstairs, he started crying really hard, really fast.
He did not want to go upstairs, he only wanted to watch Toy Story 2 on the computer.
I stuck to my guns, because at that moment I put my needs before his, and I was staying with it.
I tried to reason and talk to him calmly, he just cried more.
I suggested we start watching the movie, and see how it goes, a compromise.
He said he did not want to compromise, and he cried harder.
I felt terrible to see him so upset when I could have said yes in the first place knowing he would probably fall asleep watching the movie.
I asked if I could hold him hoping that would calm him down, but looking back, that was for me, not him.
He needed space at that moment.
My last ditch effort at holding onto my position was to tell him that we'd watch the movie, but I wanted to talk with him about it.
He said simply that he did not want to talk, and that snapped me out of my own "tantrum".
I realized that I was sitting at the computer , reading this list, which I enjoy, I could do it for a bit longer.
I apologized, held him, and told him I love him. I could have said more, but I put on the movie, and that was enough for Logan.
This does not happen often, so when it does, we move on pretty quickly.
One of the things my husband Paul has said he loves about me is that I get that most guys hate to hear these four words, "We have to talk".
And here I was trying to pull that with my 4 year old son.
I realized I could have prevented the upset, or at least ended it sooner, had I listened to Logan's needs instead of talking so much.
Meryl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LydiaL
--- In [email protected], Meryl Ranzer <mranzer@...> wrote:
Lydia Koltai
>.Meryl, I don't know if this is useful for you, but you can make a queue on YouTube so that you don't have to keep clicking on the next part to keep a movie going. When you type in the search for Toy Story 2, pick a user that has the whole movie in parts. Then when you put the cursor over the image for the movie (the way you would to just select it and watch it), there will be a + in the right hand corner of the image. You just click that, then click each next part in succession. You have to scroll through the search options to find all the parts from the same user, but it's pretty easy. You can also make a playlist that will save the movie for you for future viewings. I hope this made sense. My daughter loves watching My Little Pony and there are lots of movies on YouTube, but I got tired of clicking each part pretty quickly, so this way we can just cuddle and watch a whole movie all the way through!
> He asked to watch Toy Story 2 on the computer.
> We were both tired, I know I was, and he started rubbing his ears, which is a sign that he was too.
> We can't watch it in the bedroom because we don't own the DVD, so we watch it on youtube, in 9 parts. I have to keep clicking on the next part for him. (I will be buying the DVD after this!)
>
Lydia Koltai
jennifer.neary
YES! It's like that joke, "My husband and I never go to bed angry. We haven't slept in months."
I need time to settle down and remember what's important during/after an argument. If my DH and I just keep going at it and talking talking talking I can feel myself coming up with anything just to be right. I need that time and perspective. It's difficult for me to get to "I'm sorry" without it.
My kids need it too. More often than not if they have said or done something hurtful, they will come up to me later when they are calm and say they are sorry.
It's also easier to say "that's all right" when one has had some time to calm down.
Jennie
I need time to settle down and remember what's important during/after an argument. If my DH and I just keep going at it and talking talking talking I can feel myself coming up with anything just to be right. I need that time and perspective. It's difficult for me to get to "I'm sorry" without it.
My kids need it too. More often than not if they have said or done something hurtful, they will come up to me later when they are calm and say they are sorry.
It's also easier to say "that's all right" when one has had some time to calm down.
Jennie
--- In [email protected], michmag5@... wrote:
> Whenever anyone I know has gotten married and has asked if I have any advice, I only say this: contrary to the popular platitude, please go to bed angry. Talking something to death, especially when one of you just wants to go to sleep, is, in my experience, *never* helpful.