Parent Opposed to Unschooling/Natural Learning
unschooling_permission2enjoylife
My ex-husband and I have been lucky to maintain a 'mostly' friendly relationship. (Hiccups experienced at times, as with most relationships). We divorced about 5 yrs ago. Unfortunatelly the introduction of 'unschooling' seems to have changed this, for the moment anyway.
I am not sure that it is actually 'unschooling' that is the cause of his negative reactions though, as he has received negative feedback about 'P' being 'schooled' at home from his mother, sister and his partner. 'Unschooling' has compounded the pressure he feels, I assume.
M (my ex-husband) also looked into alternative schooling methods when P was an infant, she breastfed for 3 yrs, co-slept (still does in same room) and there has never been an issue with attachment parenting until recent years. (As mentioned by Sandra, perhaps it is a case of this style of parenting being abandoned once the child is school age or other particular age/milestone). He has also recently told me where P should sleep in our own home saying it is his right to have a strong opinion about this.
He is happy for her to be 'schooled at home', however not 'unschooled' it seems. I have read several times now that if unschooling is causing difficulties in your relationship then perhaps it is not the best route. Our immediate household: my partner and our 2 year old daughter and P, are all happy with our transition (mostly - dad still ambiguous about certain areas, time needed) to unschooling and it has just made such a difference in how we feel on a daily basis and we are really enjoying our freedom especially with the added bonus of consensual parenting.
A few months ago I gave M information about unschooling, he briefed over it with not too much enthusiasm however did not object at that time. I think the trigger for him was that recently he wanted P to do swimming lessons and after 2 she decided she did not want to continue. No problem... However he feels that she should be made to do them and 'so what' if she doesn't want to. Obviously I have not forced her to go and she hasn't. She knows how to swim anyway...?
This had a negative backlash on 'unschooling' even though I would not have made her even 3 years ago. I provided more information and many links to pages directly affecting his concerns including consensual parenting and was told that that in particular was a load of 'merde.' I thanked him for the opportunity to learn a new word however did not feel myself that it was excrement!
I would appreciate any feedback/advice/suggestions about handling this. I don't want to change our whole way of being that is working for our immediate family so that my ex-husband can 'justify' P's 'progress' (as he has demanded proof of) to his family and no doubt himself. There is obviously a lot more around it as with any family dynamic, however some I would rather not rehash either! =) If I can clarify anything though, I will.
Basically, should I consider forcing P to do reading and math lessons (even though I strongly feel this is detrimental to her as a person)to appease her father?
Thanks, Natarsha
I am not sure that it is actually 'unschooling' that is the cause of his negative reactions though, as he has received negative feedback about 'P' being 'schooled' at home from his mother, sister and his partner. 'Unschooling' has compounded the pressure he feels, I assume.
M (my ex-husband) also looked into alternative schooling methods when P was an infant, she breastfed for 3 yrs, co-slept (still does in same room) and there has never been an issue with attachment parenting until recent years. (As mentioned by Sandra, perhaps it is a case of this style of parenting being abandoned once the child is school age or other particular age/milestone). He has also recently told me where P should sleep in our own home saying it is his right to have a strong opinion about this.
He is happy for her to be 'schooled at home', however not 'unschooled' it seems. I have read several times now that if unschooling is causing difficulties in your relationship then perhaps it is not the best route. Our immediate household: my partner and our 2 year old daughter and P, are all happy with our transition (mostly - dad still ambiguous about certain areas, time needed) to unschooling and it has just made such a difference in how we feel on a daily basis and we are really enjoying our freedom especially with the added bonus of consensual parenting.
A few months ago I gave M information about unschooling, he briefed over it with not too much enthusiasm however did not object at that time. I think the trigger for him was that recently he wanted P to do swimming lessons and after 2 she decided she did not want to continue. No problem... However he feels that she should be made to do them and 'so what' if she doesn't want to. Obviously I have not forced her to go and she hasn't. She knows how to swim anyway...?
This had a negative backlash on 'unschooling' even though I would not have made her even 3 years ago. I provided more information and many links to pages directly affecting his concerns including consensual parenting and was told that that in particular was a load of 'merde.' I thanked him for the opportunity to learn a new word however did not feel myself that it was excrement!
I would appreciate any feedback/advice/suggestions about handling this. I don't want to change our whole way of being that is working for our immediate family so that my ex-husband can 'justify' P's 'progress' (as he has demanded proof of) to his family and no doubt himself. There is obviously a lot more around it as with any family dynamic, however some I would rather not rehash either! =) If I can clarify anything though, I will.
Basically, should I consider forcing P to do reading and math lessons (even though I strongly feel this is detrimental to her as a person)to appease her father?
Thanks, Natarsha
Sandra Dodd
-=-Basically, should I consider forcing P to do reading and math lessons (even though I strongly feel this is detrimental to her as a person)to appease her father?-=-
Those aren't the only choices.
Does her dad want to homeschool her? If he wants her to have lessons at home and he's not willing to provide them, perhaps he should read some more about unschooling.
On the other hand, though, it can be somewhere between difficult and impossible to unschool in a divorce situation with shared custody.
It's possible that you could do all kinds of cool things and also some activities that are specifically aimed toward reading and math. Board games, puzzles... Workbooks or mazes or whatever. Keep a list of them.
If your ex-husband insists on a curriculum, maybe you could ask him to do the research about costs and benefits. If he's not even willing to read about them and put the cash toward it, that would be an indicator, too. The danger of that move might be he would buy one, but even if he did, you could go through some of the stuff with her, and ask him to go through some of it with her when she's with him.
Learning doesn't need to be "during school hours" when a kid isn't in school and there ARE no "school hours."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Those aren't the only choices.
Does her dad want to homeschool her? If he wants her to have lessons at home and he's not willing to provide them, perhaps he should read some more about unschooling.
On the other hand, though, it can be somewhere between difficult and impossible to unschool in a divorce situation with shared custody.
It's possible that you could do all kinds of cool things and also some activities that are specifically aimed toward reading and math. Board games, puzzles... Workbooks or mazes or whatever. Keep a list of them.
If your ex-husband insists on a curriculum, maybe you could ask him to do the research about costs and benefits. If he's not even willing to read about them and put the cash toward it, that would be an indicator, too. The danger of that move might be he would buy one, but even if he did, you could go through some of the stuff with her, and ask him to go through some of it with her when she's with him.
Learning doesn't need to be "during school hours" when a kid isn't in school and there ARE no "school hours."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wtexans
===I don't want to change our whole way of being that is working for our immediate family so that my ex-husband can 'justify' P's 'progress' (as he has demanded proof of) to his family and no doubt himself.===
The thing is, if he pushes against what you are doing with your daughter, that's going to impact your daughter for sure, and very likely your partner and other child (the tension, more than anything). So if you can find a way to decrease the conflict that's seeming to exist re: unschooling/homeschooling your daughter, that benefits everyone.
If he's getting pressure from his family, what can you do to help him feel comfortable about answering their questions and addressing their concerns?
Is he familiar with the homeschooling laws for your state? Perhaps it would be helpful for him if you translated how your everyday life meets those guidelines.
Help him feel informed; being informed tends to equate to feeling confident, and if he feels confident that learning's happening then he may chill out about unschooling.
It might help to go back into the archives and read some of the threads pertaining to reluctant spouses / grandparents -- there's been great discussion and ideas that could be useful for your situation.
Glenda
The thing is, if he pushes against what you are doing with your daughter, that's going to impact your daughter for sure, and very likely your partner and other child (the tension, more than anything). So if you can find a way to decrease the conflict that's seeming to exist re: unschooling/homeschooling your daughter, that benefits everyone.
If he's getting pressure from his family, what can you do to help him feel comfortable about answering their questions and addressing their concerns?
Is he familiar with the homeschooling laws for your state? Perhaps it would be helpful for him if you translated how your everyday life meets those guidelines.
Help him feel informed; being informed tends to equate to feeling confident, and if he feels confident that learning's happening then he may chill out about unschooling.
It might help to go back into the archives and read some of the threads pertaining to reluctant spouses / grandparents -- there's been great discussion and ideas that could be useful for your situation.
Glenda
sheeboo2
Glenda suggested:
---- So if you can find a way to decrease the conflict that's seeming to exist re: unschooling/homeschooling your daughter, that benefits everyone.-----
And I think this is right on. If you don't satisfy your ex's expectations, at least somewhat, you risk loosing the chance to unschool, perhaps completely.
What has worked for alleviating my extended families concerns is to keep a blog that documents what our daughter's life entails...what she's learning. Initially, I started it as a record to use for our state-required portfolio, but the added benefit is that my MIL gets to see just how full of learning our lives are! She's totally backed off, in fact, she's come to really appreciate what we're doing. Partly, the blog played a big role in that, but so does her seeing our daughter more frequently--the proof is in the (unschooling) pudding!
What I've done, because I live in a heavily regulated state for home education, is to organize the blog by state-required subjects. I tag entries as: Reading/Writing/Spelling, Art, Arithmetic,Geography, Health and Physiology, Pennsylvania History, History of the US, Music, Phys Ed, Safety Education (fire safety), Science and these, which I added just for the fun of it: Field Trips, Experiments and Socialization.
Having an iPhone, with a camera, is incredibly helpful for documenting--snapping a few photos and taking a few notes. DD has begun asking for the camera when there is something she wants to add to the blog.
I remember reading something Sandra wrote once, about it being some time since she noticed herself tagging (in her mind) activities as learning X, Y or Z, and how freeing that was. And this is important, I think, if someone is new to unschooling--to get to the point where there isn't a running commentary in your head all the time......but I think many people need that commentary, at least at first. If you can provide that for your daughter's father, perhaps he too, in time, will cease needing it.
Brie
---- So if you can find a way to decrease the conflict that's seeming to exist re: unschooling/homeschooling your daughter, that benefits everyone.-----
And I think this is right on. If you don't satisfy your ex's expectations, at least somewhat, you risk loosing the chance to unschool, perhaps completely.
What has worked for alleviating my extended families concerns is to keep a blog that documents what our daughter's life entails...what she's learning. Initially, I started it as a record to use for our state-required portfolio, but the added benefit is that my MIL gets to see just how full of learning our lives are! She's totally backed off, in fact, she's come to really appreciate what we're doing. Partly, the blog played a big role in that, but so does her seeing our daughter more frequently--the proof is in the (unschooling) pudding!
What I've done, because I live in a heavily regulated state for home education, is to organize the blog by state-required subjects. I tag entries as: Reading/Writing/Spelling, Art, Arithmetic,Geography, Health and Physiology, Pennsylvania History, History of the US, Music, Phys Ed, Safety Education (fire safety), Science and these, which I added just for the fun of it: Field Trips, Experiments and Socialization.
Having an iPhone, with a camera, is incredibly helpful for documenting--snapping a few photos and taking a few notes. DD has begun asking for the camera when there is something she wants to add to the blog.
I remember reading something Sandra wrote once, about it being some time since she noticed herself tagging (in her mind) activities as learning X, Y or Z, and how freeing that was. And this is important, I think, if someone is new to unschooling--to get to the point where there isn't a running commentary in your head all the time......but I think many people need that commentary, at least at first. If you can provide that for your daughter's father, perhaps he too, in time, will cease needing it.
Brie
Natarsha Marr
Sandra: >>Does her dad want to homeschool her? >> << it can be somewhere between
difficult and impossible to unschool in a divorce situation with shared
custody.>>
He is happy to for me to homeschool her and our care arrangement for P is that
she is primarily with me as we decided to work around P's preferences about this
at any given time. It has altered a couple of times over the initial years
but majority care has remained with me. M does not see it though as feasible for
himself to have her more than the fortnightly weekends and 3 weeknight dinners
between the fortnights currently arranged, yet given his 'limited' time frame he
does not want to 'teach' her fearing then that she would resist seeing him...
Regardless of 'time' percentages though, he is her father and I cannot be the
'all-deciding' person.
<<It's possible that you could do all kinds of cool things and also some
activities that are specifically aimed toward reading and math. Board games,
puzzles... Workbooks or mazes or whatever. Keep a list of them.>>
Thank you for the suggestion of keeping a list of our activities. On reading it
seems obvious, however unfortunately when being in a situation you
sometimes cannot see what is right in front of you. =) I think this will help a
great deal and also help increase my confidence and awareness of answers for
questions that may arise even with others.
-------------
Glenda: <<Is he familiar with the homeschooling laws for your state? Perhaps it
would be helpful for him if you translated how your everyday life meets those
guidelines.>>
This statement is very helpful as M mentioned seeking legal advice to know what
his rights are as a parent, for reasons to do with wanting to ensure she has the
best opportunities with her 'education'. Even though he has 'retracted' this
statement, I will look further into this myself and add relevant information to
the list I will start to compile for him as above to help keep him informed and
assured. Thank you.
<< threads pertaining to reluctant spouses / grandparents >>
Point to thread appreciated. Next stop.
------------
Even though I am trying to read and learn as much as possible as quickly as
possible, it has taken me about 12-18 months to get where I am, it is far more
difficult to try and convince someone else of the benefits when they don't get
to see first hand a lot of the learning that happens and appreciate learning
outside of our educational system. However I am optimistically confident that
with the right effort, I will be able to help P's father feel comfortable.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
difficult and impossible to unschool in a divorce situation with shared
custody.>>
He is happy to for me to homeschool her and our care arrangement for P is that
she is primarily with me as we decided to work around P's preferences about this
at any given time. It has altered a couple of times over the initial years
but majority care has remained with me. M does not see it though as feasible for
himself to have her more than the fortnightly weekends and 3 weeknight dinners
between the fortnights currently arranged, yet given his 'limited' time frame he
does not want to 'teach' her fearing then that she would resist seeing him...
Regardless of 'time' percentages though, he is her father and I cannot be the
'all-deciding' person.
<<It's possible that you could do all kinds of cool things and also some
activities that are specifically aimed toward reading and math. Board games,
puzzles... Workbooks or mazes or whatever. Keep a list of them.>>
Thank you for the suggestion of keeping a list of our activities. On reading it
seems obvious, however unfortunately when being in a situation you
sometimes cannot see what is right in front of you. =) I think this will help a
great deal and also help increase my confidence and awareness of answers for
questions that may arise even with others.
-------------
Glenda: <<Is he familiar with the homeschooling laws for your state? Perhaps it
would be helpful for him if you translated how your everyday life meets those
guidelines.>>
This statement is very helpful as M mentioned seeking legal advice to know what
his rights are as a parent, for reasons to do with wanting to ensure she has the
best opportunities with her 'education'. Even though he has 'retracted' this
statement, I will look further into this myself and add relevant information to
the list I will start to compile for him as above to help keep him informed and
assured. Thank you.
<< threads pertaining to reluctant spouses / grandparents >>
Point to thread appreciated. Next stop.
------------
Even though I am trying to read and learn as much as possible as quickly as
possible, it has taken me about 12-18 months to get where I am, it is far more
difficult to try and convince someone else of the benefits when they don't get
to see first hand a lot of the learning that happens and appreciate learning
outside of our educational system. However I am optimistically confident that
with the right effort, I will be able to help P's father feel comfortable.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sheeboo2
--- What I've done, because I live in a heavily regulated state for home education, is to organize the blog by state-required subjects.----
I forgot to mention that on Blogger you also have the option of having static pages. I use one to keep a running bibliography, also organized by subject, of all the media we use (books, videos, games, websites).
Brie
I forgot to mention that on Blogger you also have the option of having static pages. I use one to keep a running bibliography, also organized by subject, of all the media we use (books, videos, games, websites).
Brie
plaidpanties666
<yeshi_khadro@...> wrote:
If you want to be able to continue unschooling or anything like it, you'll probably need to stop using the word and do a fair amount of documentation for your ex so that he has the sense his child is being well educated. It might help to think of your husband the way you might the government if you were living in a place with fairly strict reporting laws - that was an idea that helped me when Ray's bio mom wasn't sure about unschooling and we were keeping up a "learning plan" for him.
You may also need to compromise on things like outside lessons. Is your ex willing to take P to lessons? That could be a way for him to "be involved in her education" and feel good about his contribution to her life.
---Meredith
>> Basically, should I consider forcing P to do reading and math lessons (even though I strongly feel this is detrimental to her as a person)to appease her father?**************
If you want to be able to continue unschooling or anything like it, you'll probably need to stop using the word and do a fair amount of documentation for your ex so that he has the sense his child is being well educated. It might help to think of your husband the way you might the government if you were living in a place with fairly strict reporting laws - that was an idea that helped me when Ray's bio mom wasn't sure about unschooling and we were keeping up a "learning plan" for him.
You may also need to compromise on things like outside lessons. Is your ex willing to take P to lessons? That could be a way for him to "be involved in her education" and feel good about his contribution to her life.
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-yet given his 'limited' time frame he
does not want to 'teach' her fearing then that she would resist seeing him... -=-
There is a slight possibility (slight) that he has considered that if you unschool her she will be way too happy at your house and he can't compete. Or that if you teach her, that she will resist seeing you and he will get to have her more.
That guess is pessimistic and suspicious, and I hope I'm just wrong, but it might be worth gently pointing that out to him to see whether he had considered those things.
As someone else pointed out, if she knows that it's because of him that you're "making her" do "schoolwork," she will be made at BOTH of you, only you will have done all the work to harden her poor young heart.
I like the suggestion of the blog.
I don't think you can by ANY words persuade your husband, but if you can stall off any Plan B, he might be persuaded by your daughter, by seeing her learning.
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2010/12/unschooling-can-prove-itself.html
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2010/12/learning-at-home-and-in-other-special.html
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2010/12/seeing-light-with-your-own-eyes.html
Those are very short and might help him (or help you see a way to edge toward helping him).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
does not want to 'teach' her fearing then that she would resist seeing him... -=-
There is a slight possibility (slight) that he has considered that if you unschool her she will be way too happy at your house and he can't compete. Or that if you teach her, that she will resist seeing you and he will get to have her more.
That guess is pessimistic and suspicious, and I hope I'm just wrong, but it might be worth gently pointing that out to him to see whether he had considered those things.
As someone else pointed out, if she knows that it's because of him that you're "making her" do "schoolwork," she will be made at BOTH of you, only you will have done all the work to harden her poor young heart.
I like the suggestion of the blog.
I don't think you can by ANY words persuade your husband, but if you can stall off any Plan B, he might be persuaded by your daughter, by seeing her learning.
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2010/12/unschooling-can-prove-itself.html
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2010/12/learning-at-home-and-in-other-special.html
http://justaddlightandstir.blogspot.com/2010/12/seeing-light-with-your-own-eyes.html
Those are very short and might help him (or help you see a way to edge toward helping him).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]