lethargy?
m_aduhene
hello,
my children are nearly 10, 6 and 4
we have unschooled for the whole of their lives.
i am happy with how life flows and goes in the main.
just lately though i have this "lethargic" feeling.
it's been hanging around for a while.
the children seem content to get up and potter round most days.
they watch TV, play computer and wii and d/s games
they play imaginative games together.
they chat with me, we chill and the days just happen.
BUT i am starting to feel i do not do enough.
they go to clubs and stuff which i take them to. home ed and ones like brownies and gym etc.
BUT when we are in the house they do not seem to need me for anything other than answering questions, finding lost bits of toys, joining in their games sometimes. i offer suggestions as to things to do and they might ask me to do something eg. make cakes, or a craft item (they ineveitably wander off halfway through). BUT what else am i needed for? i feel like i am getting lazy and lethargic, as to be honest i am finding it soooo easy and chilled and feel it should not be, as most people find their "work" hard and tedious. should i just count my blessings that i am doing something i love and the children are not complaining so they are obviuosly ok?
i think as well, at the moment we have financial difficulties and i feel like what i am doing at home is not contributing in any way to our situation....
blessings
michelle
my children are nearly 10, 6 and 4
we have unschooled for the whole of their lives.
i am happy with how life flows and goes in the main.
just lately though i have this "lethargic" feeling.
it's been hanging around for a while.
the children seem content to get up and potter round most days.
they watch TV, play computer and wii and d/s games
they play imaginative games together.
they chat with me, we chill and the days just happen.
BUT i am starting to feel i do not do enough.
they go to clubs and stuff which i take them to. home ed and ones like brownies and gym etc.
BUT when we are in the house they do not seem to need me for anything other than answering questions, finding lost bits of toys, joining in their games sometimes. i offer suggestions as to things to do and they might ask me to do something eg. make cakes, or a craft item (they ineveitably wander off halfway through). BUT what else am i needed for? i feel like i am getting lazy and lethargic, as to be honest i am finding it soooo easy and chilled and feel it should not be, as most people find their "work" hard and tedious. should i just count my blessings that i am doing something i love and the children are not complaining so they are obviuosly ok?
i think as well, at the moment we have financial difficulties and i feel like what i am doing at home is not contributing in any way to our situation....
blessings
michelle
dola dasgupta-banerji
Hi, well I feel we are so conditioned and geared towards "doing" and
"action", when life is moving smoothly and easily without much of both
these, we feel lost. But the best part is to know that life is meant to be
lived in silence, peace, quiet and harmony. So if you and your children are
feeling these then you can be certain that all is well.
The kids not needing you is making you feel a wee bit "unwanted", I guess.
That is just your mind coming in and trying to obstruct the bliss and
contentment that you and your family is feeling. So just be firm with that
monkey mind.
If you yourself are feeling that you have a lot of extra time at hand and
finances are low, perhaps you can see if there is some work that you could
do from home and make some extra bucks. Or if money is not an issue, perhaps
just pursuing a hobby yourself, the one which you always wanted to do and
never had the time for, can certainly make you feel great and creative.
This feeling of lull that you are feeling is just the tip where all your
energy can rise up to becoming creative and release your true potential.
I hope this helps. It has helped me.
Dola
"action", when life is moving smoothly and easily without much of both
these, we feel lost. But the best part is to know that life is meant to be
lived in silence, peace, quiet and harmony. So if you and your children are
feeling these then you can be certain that all is well.
The kids not needing you is making you feel a wee bit "unwanted", I guess.
That is just your mind coming in and trying to obstruct the bliss and
contentment that you and your family is feeling. So just be firm with that
monkey mind.
If you yourself are feeling that you have a lot of extra time at hand and
finances are low, perhaps you can see if there is some work that you could
do from home and make some extra bucks. Or if money is not an issue, perhaps
just pursuing a hobby yourself, the one which you always wanted to do and
never had the time for, can certainly make you feel great and creative.
This feeling of lull that you are feeling is just the tip where all your
energy can rise up to becoming creative and release your true potential.
I hope this helps. It has helped me.
Dola
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 6:41 PM, m_aduhene <m_aduhene@...> wrote:
>
>
> hello,
> my children are nearly 10, 6 and 4
> we have unschooled for the whole of their lives.
> i am happy with how life flows and goes in the main.
> just lately though i have this "lethargic" feeling.
> it's been hanging around for a while.
> the children seem content to get up and potter round most days.
> they watch TV, play computer and wii and d/s games
> they play imaginative games together.
> they chat with me, we chill and the days just happen.
> BUT i am starting to feel i do not do enough.
> they go to clubs and stuff which i take them to. home ed and ones like
> brownies and gym etc.
> BUT when we are in the house they do not seem to need me for anything other
> than answering questions, finding lost bits of toys, joining in their games
> sometimes. i offer suggestions as to things to do and they might ask me to
> do something eg. make cakes, or a craft item (they ineveitably wander off
> halfway through). BUT what else am i needed for? i feel like i am getting
> lazy and lethargic, as to be honest i am finding it soooo easy and chilled
> and feel it should not be, as most people find their "work" hard and
> tedious. should i just count my blessings that i am doing something i love
> and the children are not complaining so they are obviuosly ok?
> i think as well, at the moment we have financial difficulties and i feel
> like what i am doing at home is not contributing in any way to our
> situation....
> blessings
> michelle
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"m_aduhene" <m_aduhene@...> wrote:
Well, there's definitely something in between "not complaining" and "obviously okay" - but since your description paints them pretty busy and content I'm going to assume this is your issue, not theirs. You have an idea that life is work and work is "hard and tedious" - but that's just an idea you have. There's not some kind of rule that life Has To Be a chore.
I work outside the home. Some days its dull and some days its stressful and some days its physically gruelling, but I wouldn't describe it as "hard and tedious". I enjoy my job. I enjoyed being the at-home parent, too - and it also had its stressful, dull and gruelling moments.
Do you know the zen saying "Before enlightenment: carry water, chop wood. After enlightenment: carry water, chop wood." Yes, count your blessings. Other people might read your list of what your life is like and think "dang how does she stand that?" but you enjoy what you do. You love your work - hooray!
---Meredith
> i feel like i am getting lazy and lethargic,Maybe its time to start a new hobby of your own, something special that you enjoy. Its great when kids get old enough that you can do that.
>> i am finding it soooo easy and chilled and feel it should not be, as most people find their "work" hard and tedious. should i just count my blessings that i am doing something i love and the children are not complaining so they are obviuosly ok?****************
Well, there's definitely something in between "not complaining" and "obviously okay" - but since your description paints them pretty busy and content I'm going to assume this is your issue, not theirs. You have an idea that life is work and work is "hard and tedious" - but that's just an idea you have. There's not some kind of rule that life Has To Be a chore.
I work outside the home. Some days its dull and some days its stressful and some days its physically gruelling, but I wouldn't describe it as "hard and tedious". I enjoy my job. I enjoyed being the at-home parent, too - and it also had its stressful, dull and gruelling moments.
Do you know the zen saying "Before enlightenment: carry water, chop wood. After enlightenment: carry water, chop wood." Yes, count your blessings. Other people might read your list of what your life is like and think "dang how does she stand that?" but you enjoy what you do. You love your work - hooray!
---Meredith
k
One of the things that crop up for me is feeling, and even people saying,
that I need to do something productive, preferably with results anyone can
see. I'd be hard pressed to point to results that absolutely anyone can see.
Some people don't see because their vantage point is very different. It's
when *I* feel annoyed with the results (or lack of) that worry can set in.
When I was in art classes where production was for an assignment, I realized
how the cycle of worry doesn't inspire and then once I reminded myself of
that, soon after something I saw or heard or felt or thought would
germinate.into, if not a finished project, the continuation or beginning of
something I'd forgotten I wanted to do "someday" ... which generally meant
"tomorrow." There was my chance. I got started in cooking, knitting and all
kinds of things that way.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that I need to do something productive, preferably with results anyone can
see. I'd be hard pressed to point to results that absolutely anyone can see.
Some people don't see because their vantage point is very different. It's
when *I* feel annoyed with the results (or lack of) that worry can set in.
When I was in art classes where production was for an assignment, I realized
how the cycle of worry doesn't inspire and then once I reminded myself of
that, soon after something I saw or heard or felt or thought would
germinate.into, if not a finished project, the continuation or beginning of
something I'd forgotten I wanted to do "someday" ... which generally meant
"tomorrow." There was my chance. I got started in cooking, knitting and all
kinds of things that way.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-BUT what else am i needed for? i feel like i am getting lazy and
lethargic, as to be honest i am finding it soooo easy and chilled and feel it
should not be, as most people find their "work" hard and tedious. should i just
count my blessings that i am doing something i love and the children are not
complaining so they are obviuosly ok?-=-
The dark part is that lethargy could be depression. If it is, go with cheery, happy, breathe, sky, smile kind of stuff (or if it's advanced, counselling).
The light and breezy part is that you might just have come to the point that your children can wipe their own butts and put on their own shoes and coats, and you don't recognize the feeling. :-)
Remember when your kids were all little and touching you and needing to be carried and hanging on you and unable to put their own clothes on?
Maybe what you're seeing is the contrast to those days, and feeling that you used to be crucial (and overburdened) and now you're at a loss for how to fill that stress level. But it's okay not to be stressed. Recovery from that many years of overwhelmedness can take a while to get over!
I have that feeling too, lots of times, that my movements and time expenditure aren't "having something to show for it." I write. That shows here and on my blogs but not in the bathroom at my house, where I need to put in a clean mat and clean that little bit of mold off the ceiling, and mop the floor. I *could* fixate on the bathroom and make myself feel guilty, but I don't. And when I'm feeling lazy and want to go to sleep early, I try to force myself to "do something productive," but my nice husband says resting and having some time to be still IS productive, and healing. And he's right.
So try to give yourself the gift of acceptance that people can't be frantically busy every day all day (and still stay heathly) any more than a person can be awake 24 hours a day for weeks without sleeping (or even for days). Sleep is natural. Feeling the need to be still and quiet is natural too, and mothers with babies hardly ever get to be still and quiet. It's your time and you've earned it. It will come and go.
Culture tells us to do, do more, do better, impress the neighbors, dazzle the relatives.
Mental health needs some quiet time for thoughts to come in on their own, and although I don't know all the details, my thought is that if you think of it as cocooning instead of lethargy, you'll feel better immediately.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lethargic, as to be honest i am finding it soooo easy and chilled and feel it
should not be, as most people find their "work" hard and tedious. should i just
count my blessings that i am doing something i love and the children are not
complaining so they are obviuosly ok?-=-
The dark part is that lethargy could be depression. If it is, go with cheery, happy, breathe, sky, smile kind of stuff (or if it's advanced, counselling).
The light and breezy part is that you might just have come to the point that your children can wipe their own butts and put on their own shoes and coats, and you don't recognize the feeling. :-)
Remember when your kids were all little and touching you and needing to be carried and hanging on you and unable to put their own clothes on?
Maybe what you're seeing is the contrast to those days, and feeling that you used to be crucial (and overburdened) and now you're at a loss for how to fill that stress level. But it's okay not to be stressed. Recovery from that many years of overwhelmedness can take a while to get over!
I have that feeling too, lots of times, that my movements and time expenditure aren't "having something to show for it." I write. That shows here and on my blogs but not in the bathroom at my house, where I need to put in a clean mat and clean that little bit of mold off the ceiling, and mop the floor. I *could* fixate on the bathroom and make myself feel guilty, but I don't. And when I'm feeling lazy and want to go to sleep early, I try to force myself to "do something productive," but my nice husband says resting and having some time to be still IS productive, and healing. And he's right.
So try to give yourself the gift of acceptance that people can't be frantically busy every day all day (and still stay heathly) any more than a person can be awake 24 hours a day for weeks without sleeping (or even for days). Sleep is natural. Feeling the need to be still and quiet is natural too, and mothers with babies hardly ever get to be still and quiet. It's your time and you've earned it. It will come and go.
Culture tells us to do, do more, do better, impress the neighbors, dazzle the relatives.
Mental health needs some quiet time for thoughts to come in on their own, and although I don't know all the details, my thought is that if you think of it as cocooning instead of lethargy, you'll feel better immediately.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wtexans
===i think as well, at the moment we have financial difficulties and i feel like what i am doing at home is not contributing in any way to our situation===
What you do may not generate income, but it contributes in that it eliminates expenses that would exist if you held a job outside the home.
Those kind of expenses would vary from family to family, but could include: childcare, work clothes / uniforms, dry cleaning, increased vehicle expenses, increased cost of meals if fast food / eating out happened more often because of both parents not having the energy to cook, etc.
Then there are the things that don't have a monetary value, most especially you being available for your kiddos in a way that would be much more challenging (and exhausting) if you weren't home with them the way you are now.
I know when finances are tight it's hard to see a perspective other than "we're scraping by and I'm not contributing financially", so it can help to shift your perspective and think about the ways your family's expenses are decreased by you being at home, and to also think about how your availability to your kiddos might change if you were working outside the home.
Glenda
What you do may not generate income, but it contributes in that it eliminates expenses that would exist if you held a job outside the home.
Those kind of expenses would vary from family to family, but could include: childcare, work clothes / uniforms, dry cleaning, increased vehicle expenses, increased cost of meals if fast food / eating out happened more often because of both parents not having the energy to cook, etc.
Then there are the things that don't have a monetary value, most especially you being available for your kiddos in a way that would be much more challenging (and exhausting) if you weren't home with them the way you are now.
I know when finances are tight it's hard to see a perspective other than "we're scraping by and I'm not contributing financially", so it can help to shift your perspective and think about the ways your family's expenses are decreased by you being at home, and to also think about how your availability to your kiddos might change if you were working outside the home.
Glenda
wtexans
===should i just count my blessings that i am doing something i love and the children are not complaining so they are obviuosly ok. <snip> i offer suggestions as to things to do and they might ask me to do something eg. make cakes, or a craft item===
Two things:
1. If you are feeling at loose ends, think about the things you missed having time for when your kids needed more of your time and start dabbling in those.
When, several years ago, my son seemingly (to me!) overnight went from wanting me to be his playmate during most of his waking hours -to- being substantially more self-sufficient and also spending lots of time gaming online with friends, I would find myself walking around the house wondering what to do (I mean, other than housework, which isn't at the top of my list of fun things to do!). It felt so strange to have that kind of time on my hands!!
I started watching lots of cooking shows and dabbling in the kind of cooking I'd never had the time or energy for before then. I tried a variety of crafts until I found a couple that I absolutely love, then I jumped wholeheartedly into those (which could actually pan out into a paying gig at some point in the future if I want to pursue that). I enjoy being able to spend long chunks of time reading. I felt that I finally had the time and energy to invest in having dogs, so we got two puppies. I putter around the house, inside and out, fixing things up, painting as we have the money and I had the "oomph", etc. These are the things *I* enjoy.
Hanging on the wall of my "woman cave" (as my hubby refers to it LOL) is an ongoing list of things I want to do. When I find myself walking around the house at loose ends, I'll check out the list for ideas. (I include inside-the-house and outside-the-house ideas, because sometimes I *need* to be outdoors doing something and my kiddo doesn't want to go anywhere, so I like having ideas of physically-active things I can work on outdoors without leaving home.)
2. It can be easy to fall into a "same ole, same ole" rut. Even if your kids are not complaining about their days, it can be fun to change things up. Rather than suggesting things to them or waiting for them to ask you to help with something, surprise them!
For example: Use the furniture and sheets and blankets to set up a fort inside the house. Fix it up inside with pillow and flashlights (or lamps) and snacks, then invite them to join you inside the fort. If they're not interested in joining you right then, enjoy it by yourself! Don't make it *just* for them, rather make it something you'll enjoy, too. Part of the fun comes from making it and setting it up so it's ready to be used.
You could surprise them with a treasure hunt, indoors or out. Or an obstacle course. Your local library or Family Fun magazine's website are good places for ideas of fun things to do.
To me, coming up with ideas and then implementing them as surprises is a huge amount of fun for me. The icing on the cake is enjoying those surprises with my kiddo.
Glenda
Two things:
1. If you are feeling at loose ends, think about the things you missed having time for when your kids needed more of your time and start dabbling in those.
When, several years ago, my son seemingly (to me!) overnight went from wanting me to be his playmate during most of his waking hours -to- being substantially more self-sufficient and also spending lots of time gaming online with friends, I would find myself walking around the house wondering what to do (I mean, other than housework, which isn't at the top of my list of fun things to do!). It felt so strange to have that kind of time on my hands!!
I started watching lots of cooking shows and dabbling in the kind of cooking I'd never had the time or energy for before then. I tried a variety of crafts until I found a couple that I absolutely love, then I jumped wholeheartedly into those (which could actually pan out into a paying gig at some point in the future if I want to pursue that). I enjoy being able to spend long chunks of time reading. I felt that I finally had the time and energy to invest in having dogs, so we got two puppies. I putter around the house, inside and out, fixing things up, painting as we have the money and I had the "oomph", etc. These are the things *I* enjoy.
Hanging on the wall of my "woman cave" (as my hubby refers to it LOL) is an ongoing list of things I want to do. When I find myself walking around the house at loose ends, I'll check out the list for ideas. (I include inside-the-house and outside-the-house ideas, because sometimes I *need* to be outdoors doing something and my kiddo doesn't want to go anywhere, so I like having ideas of physically-active things I can work on outdoors without leaving home.)
2. It can be easy to fall into a "same ole, same ole" rut. Even if your kids are not complaining about their days, it can be fun to change things up. Rather than suggesting things to them or waiting for them to ask you to help with something, surprise them!
For example: Use the furniture and sheets and blankets to set up a fort inside the house. Fix it up inside with pillow and flashlights (or lamps) and snacks, then invite them to join you inside the fort. If they're not interested in joining you right then, enjoy it by yourself! Don't make it *just* for them, rather make it something you'll enjoy, too. Part of the fun comes from making it and setting it up so it's ready to be used.
You could surprise them with a treasure hunt, indoors or out. Or an obstacle course. Your local library or Family Fun magazine's website are good places for ideas of fun things to do.
To me, coming up with ideas and then implementing them as surprises is a huge amount of fun for me. The icing on the cake is enjoying those surprises with my kiddo.
Glenda
dola dasgupta-banerji
===i think as well, at the moment we have financial difficulties and i feel
like what i am doing at home is not contributing in any way to our
situation===
To feel guilty when financially you feel you could contribute more is not
the whole picture actually. always look at the larger and complete canvas.
Staying at home and taking care of the 'needs" of your children and your
partner, keeping home, cooking, health check ups and outings for the kids,
all add up to a lot of money if you counted the amount you would have to pay
others to the do the same job. Plus the abundance of energy that you have
for them and yourself is a blessing.
So stay-at-home mom is always a big saving on the family budget and also on
the general well being of all members of the family. If your partner is
working outside home, staying at home is the best option. It is a full
fledged career option for women! Please feel proud and wholesome about your
choice.
Dola
like what i am doing at home is not contributing in any way to our
situation===
To feel guilty when financially you feel you could contribute more is not
the whole picture actually. always look at the larger and complete canvas.
Staying at home and taking care of the 'needs" of your children and your
partner, keeping home, cooking, health check ups and outings for the kids,
all add up to a lot of money if you counted the amount you would have to pay
others to the do the same job. Plus the abundance of energy that you have
for them and yourself is a blessing.
So stay-at-home mom is always a big saving on the family budget and also on
the general well being of all members of the family. If your partner is
working outside home, staying at home is the best option. It is a full
fledged career option for women! Please feel proud and wholesome about your
choice.
Dola
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 11:01 AM, wtexans <wtexans@...> wrote:
>
>
> ===i think as well, at the moment we have financial difficulties and i feel
> like what i am doing at home is not contributing in any way to our
> situation===
>
> What you do may not generate income, but it contributes in that it
> eliminates expenses that would exist if you held a job outside the home.
>
> Those kind of expenses would vary from family to family, but could include:
> childcare, work clothes / uniforms, dry cleaning, increased vehicle
> expenses, increased cost of meals if fast food / eating out happened more
> often because of both parents not having the energy to cook, etc.
>
> Then there are the things that don't have a monetary value, most especially
> you being available for your kiddos in a way that would be much more
> challenging (and exhausting) if you weren't home with them the way you are
> now.
>
> I know when finances are tight it's hard to see a perspective other than
> "we're scraping by and I'm not contributing financially", so it can help to
> shift your perspective and think about the ways your family's expenses are
> decreased by you being at home, and to also think about how your
> availability to your kiddos might change if you were working outside the
> home.
>
> Glenda
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>> So stay-at-home mom is always a big saving on the family budget and alsoon
the general well being of all members of the family.<<<
Also because I'm home so much as well as the fact that I have time to, I can
look into issues that otherwise would have to be muddled through sans info
and sans the greater involvement they might use. By now I'm an inveterate
Googling finder of lots of things to do for not only fun but sometimes for
necessity. Health is a big issue that I've recently gotten into for
practical reasons for us adults, which has led to a project with my dad---
something I haven't done for years--- and we are devising a shoestring
greenhouse to grow food, flowers, and all kinds of plants ... which might
include passive solar energy use for winter heating in our generally
temperate SC. Before that I was delving into astronomy, a long time interest
of mine, which is on hopefully temporary hold because of the expense of what
I'm going for.
It hasn't always been possible to successfully enlist the help or
involvement of friends or family. It's pretty nice when that happens too.
The above has inspired a certain amount of openness about our unschooling
which wasn't there before due to an web of assumptions I wasn't interested
in untangling for others, and I'm a tiny bit optimistic though not depending
on this to lead to outright understanding. If it doesn't that's ok. I'm just
noticing things out of the corner of my eye, so to speak. My point being
that what I do here might clear out a couple of cobwebs that aren't directly
mine, that would be about something else in my life if I weren't
unschooling, just because I'm available to do something with the people
whose cobwebs they are. Meanwhile I'm doing things I want to do. If nothing
else it would be great to have something else to thank people for in helping
me with this project. And I'm enjoying it too. I made a paper model of the
greenhouse, a token of something that may come to be.
~Katherine
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 3:04 AM, dola dasgupta-banerji <doladg@...>wrote:
> ===i think as well, at the moment we have financial difficulties and i feel
> like what i am doing at home is not contributing in any way to our
> situation===
>
> To feel guilty when financially you feel you could contribute more is not
> the whole picture actually. always look at the larger and complete canvas.
> Staying at home and taking care of the 'needs" of your children and your
> partner, keeping home, cooking, health check ups and outings for the kids,
> all add up to a lot of money if you counted the amount you would have to
> pay
> others to the do the same job. Plus the abundance of energy that you have
> for them and yourself is a blessing.
>
> So stay-at-home mom is always a big saving on the family budget and also on
> the general well being of all members of the family. If your partner is
> working outside home, staying at home is the best option. It is a full
> fledged career option for women! Please feel proud and wholesome about your
> choice.
>
> Dola
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 11:01 AM, wtexans <wtexans@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > ===i think as well, at the moment we have financial difficulties and i
> feel
> > like what i am doing at home is not contributing in any way to our
> > situation===
> >
> > What you do may not generate income, but it contributes in that it
> > eliminates expenses that would exist if you held a job outside the home.
> >
> > Those kind of expenses would vary from family to family, but could
> include:
> > childcare, work clothes / uniforms, dry cleaning, increased vehicle
> > expenses, increased cost of meals if fast food / eating out happened more
> > often because of both parents not having the energy to cook, etc.
> >
> > Then there are the things that don't have a monetary value, most
> especially
> > you being available for your kiddos in a way that would be much more
> > challenging (and exhausting) if you weren't home with them the way you
> are
> > now.
> >
> > I know when finances are tight it's hard to see a perspective other than
> > "we're scraping by and I'm not contributing financially", so it can help
> to
> > shift your perspective and think about the ways your family's expenses
> are
> > decreased by you being at home, and to also think about how your
> > availability to your kiddos might change if you were working outside the
> > home.
> >
> > Glenda
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shirarocklin
This article came up in my blog reader, and I'm curious what others here think of what Wendy writes.
http://lifelearningmagazine.com/blog/2010/12/13/swallowing-unschooling-dogma/
"In theory, after overdosing on junk food, most kids will eventually find something healthier to eat and later become able to balance their eating habits. In the same way, most kids will eventually get bored with the garbage on television and go look for something more interesting to do and later become selective users of the medium. The problem is that these things like many other harmful things that our children encounter today are designed by corporations to be addictive and to exploit children's trust. And that means some adult advocacy (which is different from control) is required, even as we support and respect our children to learn by living."
Is there any real reason to fear things that are 'designed by corporations to be addictive and exploit children's trust'? From reading on here for about a year now, it seems to me that the designs of the corporations function around taking advantage of the damage that traditional parenting and school can cause... and hopefully unschooling can avoid.
The whole article is interesting. I don't know why she "----"'s out "Radical Unschooling", and then writes "Life Learning" instead. Does anyone subscribe to her unschooling magazine?
http://lifelearningmagazine.com/blog/2010/12/13/swallowing-unschooling-dogma/
"In theory, after overdosing on junk food, most kids will eventually find something healthier to eat and later become able to balance their eating habits. In the same way, most kids will eventually get bored with the garbage on television and go look for something more interesting to do and later become selective users of the medium. The problem is that these things like many other harmful things that our children encounter today are designed by corporations to be addictive and to exploit children's trust. And that means some adult advocacy (which is different from control) is required, even as we support and respect our children to learn by living."
Is there any real reason to fear things that are 'designed by corporations to be addictive and exploit children's trust'? From reading on here for about a year now, it seems to me that the designs of the corporations function around taking advantage of the damage that traditional parenting and school can cause... and hopefully unschooling can avoid.
The whole article is interesting. I don't know why she "----"'s out "Radical Unschooling", and then writes "Life Learning" instead. Does anyone subscribe to her unschooling magazine?
Sandra Dodd
-=-The whole article is interesting. I don't know why she "----"'s out "Radical Unschooling", and then writes "Life Learning" instead. Does anyone subscribe to her unschooling magazine?-=-
She prefers not to use "unschooling" as a term. That's okay.
Life Learning was a paper/mail magazine, but now it's online/electronic. They still have the companion magazine, their main magazine, Natural Life, on paper.
http://www.naturallifemagazine.com/
Their priority isn't the same as some of the people on this list, is all.
My primary focus is learning. Wendy's is "natural life," as she and Rolf (her husband and magazine-business partner) define it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
She prefers not to use "unschooling" as a term. That's okay.
Life Learning was a paper/mail magazine, but now it's online/electronic. They still have the companion magazine, their main magazine, Natural Life, on paper.
http://www.naturallifemagazine.com/
Their priority isn't the same as some of the people on this list, is all.
My primary focus is learning. Wendy's is "natural life," as she and Rolf (her husband and magazine-business partner) define it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 13, 2010, at 11:26 PM, shirarocklin wrote:
problems in someone's life than to worry about and guard against
things that sound like they must cause damage.
If parents aren't filling holes in their kids' lives and children turn
to toys and TV to fill them, is the "evil" in what the children choose
or what the parents fail to offer?
If the parents have a vision of what are the right things to choose
and children choose otherwise (like popular toys, video games and TV),
is the "evil" in the children for choosing "wrong" or in the parents
in assuming their kids are objects to be molded?
If parents are tuned into their kids interests and offer a variety of
ways to fill holes and children choose toys and TV from the
smorgasbord, what could be evil about that?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Is there any real reason to fear things that are 'designed byIt's a better use of energy to tackle things that are causing actual
> corporations to be addictive and exploit children's trust'? From
> reading on here for about a year now, it seems to me that the
> designs of the corporations function around taking advantage of the
> damage that traditional parenting and school can cause... and
> hopefully unschooling can avoid.
problems in someone's life than to worry about and guard against
things that sound like they must cause damage.
If parents aren't filling holes in their kids' lives and children turn
to toys and TV to fill them, is the "evil" in what the children choose
or what the parents fail to offer?
If the parents have a vision of what are the right things to choose
and children choose otherwise (like popular toys, video games and TV),
is the "evil" in the children for choosing "wrong" or in the parents
in assuming their kids are objects to be molded?
If parents are tuned into their kids interests and offer a variety of
ways to fill holes and children choose toys and TV from the
smorgasbord, what could be evil about that?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-> Is there any real reason to fear things that are 'designed by
Unschooling isn't intended to avoid being a target of evil. I hope people aren't thinking unschooling is some sort of magical inoculation. Living in the real world and learning to deal with it in thoughtful and open ways is a kind of inoculation against cluelessness and helplessness. People who let others do their thinking and deciding and labelling for them are in danger of being swayed and taken advantage of for social and political purposes, no doubt.
No matter who says, writes, or does ANYthing, each other person should look at that in light of everything else he or she knows, and make a personal judgment about whether it's closer or further from hopes and goals and intentions. I see e-mails from my older relatives in Texas, and I feel glad I am not as conservative-Baptist as they are. I see the parts that make them happy (church fellowship and Jesus) and the parts that make them unhappy (fearful prejudice and political propaganda), and I love that they knew my dad when he was growing up, but that's all I love about them.
Someone might look at me and love that I can sing and that I unschooled, but not love my goofy hobbies or messy house. Other friends of mine love that I've saved art supplies and books and old newsletters and documents they want to borrow sometimes, and that I have extra cloth and trim, but they think unschooling is odd and aberrant behavior. I can't be everything to everyone; I can't even be everything to ANYone. Even my husband has other friends. My kids have lots of other friends. I guess Kirby goes a week or two without even thinking about me now that he has lived in another state for over three years.
I can only live in my body, see through my eyes, and assimilate and synthesize patterns and ideas from things I perceive, read or hear about. In my life, I have very few boogeymen. I have a lot of peace and safety. Some people prefer for their daily lives to be fraught with danger, conspiracy and persecution. I think that in most cases, that's more thought and attitude than reality, it's unhealthy to collect fears and worries.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> corporations to be addictive and exploit children's trust'? FromI think "the designs of the corporations" is a boogeyman. There isn't a corporate secret plot to take advantage of school- and family-damaged kids. They want to make money, but that in itself is their duty to their stock holders. Some people here ARE stock holders. It's good for my family if people go to Pixar movies and to Disneyland, stockmarket-wise (slightly, indirectly good for us). Does it make me a part of an evil corporation, that Keith had stock options at work and opted in?
> reading on here for about a year now, it seems to me that the
> designs of the corporations function around taking advantage of the
> damage that traditional parenting and school can cause... and
> hopefully unschooling can avoid.-=-
Unschooling isn't intended to avoid being a target of evil. I hope people aren't thinking unschooling is some sort of magical inoculation. Living in the real world and learning to deal with it in thoughtful and open ways is a kind of inoculation against cluelessness and helplessness. People who let others do their thinking and deciding and labelling for them are in danger of being swayed and taken advantage of for social and political purposes, no doubt.
No matter who says, writes, or does ANYthing, each other person should look at that in light of everything else he or she knows, and make a personal judgment about whether it's closer or further from hopes and goals and intentions. I see e-mails from my older relatives in Texas, and I feel glad I am not as conservative-Baptist as they are. I see the parts that make them happy (church fellowship and Jesus) and the parts that make them unhappy (fearful prejudice and political propaganda), and I love that they knew my dad when he was growing up, but that's all I love about them.
Someone might look at me and love that I can sing and that I unschooled, but not love my goofy hobbies or messy house. Other friends of mine love that I've saved art supplies and books and old newsletters and documents they want to borrow sometimes, and that I have extra cloth and trim, but they think unschooling is odd and aberrant behavior. I can't be everything to everyone; I can't even be everything to ANYone. Even my husband has other friends. My kids have lots of other friends. I guess Kirby goes a week or two without even thinking about me now that he has lived in another state for over three years.
I can only live in my body, see through my eyes, and assimilate and synthesize patterns and ideas from things I perceive, read or hear about. In my life, I have very few boogeymen. I have a lot of peace and safety. Some people prefer for their daily lives to be fraught with danger, conspiracy and persecution. I think that in most cases, that's more thought and attitude than reality, it's unhealthy to collect fears and worries.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>The problem is that these things � like many other harmful things thatour children encounter today � are designed by corporations to be addictive
and to exploit children's trust.<<<
I think it is less specific to say "addictive" than to say something that
takes a bit longer and is more accurate (in my opinion).
If anything is designed ---for whatever purpose--- it can become
center-stage to the exclusion of other things IF it is the ONLY thing
available. That's what Alexander's Rat Park study revealed (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park).
Making things of equal importance rather than calling attention to things as
"good" or "bad" means that the things available to a child for selecting
from are truly their choice. Otherwise the child is being told something
akin to "yes you can have that yucky or addictive thing but it's a bad
decision on your part" and that interaction can lead to less trust because
the parent(s) imply that the child is incompetent to make decisions and
learn. Don't think that your child's trust is dependent on what others do
but on parents.
Which is why I prefer the monkey platter concept (
http://sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter.html) over the addiction model.
The monkey platter concept can refer to other arrays of choices, a "plate"
on which the parents can assemble a collection of the child's ideas and
preferences of things to do for consideration. The concept can be extended
to be about more than just eating or food. The key is not to put everything
imaginable up for consideration but to put out an attractive array. That's
strewing in my opinion. If something on there is not good at the moment for
one or more people involved then it can be set aside for another time.
Perhaps the rest of the choices can be dived into to the satisfaction of
those involved.
The things one can learn from monkey platters! If a parent isn't wild about
one of the choices, that parent can nonetheless enjoy their child's
enjoyment, just as I can partake of food on a monkey platter even if I'm not
wild about one food (or more) but have only a small enjoyment of it purely
for myself. What if Karl is nuts about nuts while I avoid them? What if he
loves Angry Beavers while I watch only a few snippets? What if I want
nothing but apple slices while Karl eats all the chocolate? What will
happen?! It will be good. Karl and I will feed each other the idea that
people have diverse interests and preferences, and that it's possible to
delve a little bit into things we wouldn't necessarily go for if we were the
only ones there. Karl introduces me to tons of things I'd probably never get
into on my own. And the same is true in reverse. I have introduced Karl to
things he might never have thought to choose. Monty Python, for one.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
>The problem is that these things like many other harmful things that our children encounter today are designed by corporations to be addictive and to exploit children's trust. And that means some adult advocacy ...*********************
Statements like that ignore the fact that "adult advocacy" can include support like saying "yes" to a child wanting to buy something he or she sees in a commercial, or looking for ways to help a child feel in control of programming (recording shows, for instance), or looking for ways to level the playing field with attractive, convenient, processed foods. Real advocacy, real help, rarely looks like an explanation of why such-and-such is bad and you'll thank me when you're older - if that was actually helpful, most people would have stellar diets, perfectly clean homes and no bad habits.
If I'm going to look for an advocate for some adult cause, its not going to be someone who will stand in my way, explaining why the world can't be a better place, but someone who will help me get what I want.
---Meredith
Jenny Cyphers
***Making things of equal importance rather than calling attention to things as
"good" or "bad" means that the things available to a child for selecting
from are truly their choice. Otherwise the child is being told something
akin to "yes you can have that yucky or addictive thing but it's a bad
decision on your part" and that interaction can lead to less trust because
the parent(s) imply that the child is incompetent to make decisions and
learn. Don't think that your child's trust is dependent on what others do
but on parents.***
This is THE most common mainstream parenting practice that I've seen used to
control and manipulate children. It is born out of fear. Parents fear that
their children will think, believe, act, do, or become someone or something that
the parents believe to be wrong or bad. As much as I love and trust my
children, even *I* have moments where I go to that place in my thoughts until I
realize those thoughts aren't my own, but hold over beliefs of others, usually
conservative religious beliefs born in fear.
Children can and do push comfort boundaries. Even the sweetest kindest most
well behaved child will at some point push the comfort boundaries of their
parents. If a parent has a big laundry list of things to fear, there will be
more comfort boundaries to push. That parent will feel as if the world is full
of things to avoid, full of things to keep their child away from, full of things
to control. The place that I came to, is that if I don't attempt to control,
combined with letting go of all those things to fear, that I can truly see the
world as a big beautiful place to live and grow and learn in, and I can truly
see my children as happy positive people that aren't out to do terrible things
that will ruin their lives. The more I let go of control and the less I fear,
the better my relationship with my children is. The comfort boundaries are
easier to navigate because they are clearer, fewer, and more defined. Since
they are, it's easier to work through them and easier to talk to my children
about, since *I* am clearer and more defined about fewer things that cause me
discomfort.
And that's it, it's MY discomfort, not theirs and that's a big important thing
to remember. The only way, that I can see that works, to have a child truly
care about my discomforts is to truly let go of fear and control. Parents can
and do fear and control. Some parents more than others. Relationships between
parents and children have been destroyed because of it.
Unschooling doesn't work well when there is fear and control, the very nature of
fear and control puts walls up where there should be openness. One can't learn
in big happy ways when there are walls up. Not everyone sees that or wants
that. Some people want walls up around their children, they want to control
their children and will do so at whatever cost for whatever fear based reason
they have. And the ONLY way to do that is to control and manipulate. Parents
do that in small ways with TV and food, when the kids are young, and large ways
through groundings and punishments, when the kids are older. One parent I know
in real life has done this in a very large way by putting her child in a reform
place away from her to be retrained to believe that she, the child, is damaged
and needs to be fixed so that she can come back home to accept her mothers
fears, values, and world views. That's an extreme example, but it DOES happen.
It is so much easier and so much more pleasant to do the internal work, as the
parent, to let go of the fear and control and in so doing you can have a
relationship with your children that is truly born of mutual respect. That is
the most beautiful side effect of unschooling. KNOWing that fear and control
can't allow happy learning to flourish and letting that idea unfold and ripple
into the whole of your lives, is really a wonderful life blessing that I never
ever expected!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"good" or "bad" means that the things available to a child for selecting
from are truly their choice. Otherwise the child is being told something
akin to "yes you can have that yucky or addictive thing but it's a bad
decision on your part" and that interaction can lead to less trust because
the parent(s) imply that the child is incompetent to make decisions and
learn. Don't think that your child's trust is dependent on what others do
but on parents.***
This is THE most common mainstream parenting practice that I've seen used to
control and manipulate children. It is born out of fear. Parents fear that
their children will think, believe, act, do, or become someone or something that
the parents believe to be wrong or bad. As much as I love and trust my
children, even *I* have moments where I go to that place in my thoughts until I
realize those thoughts aren't my own, but hold over beliefs of others, usually
conservative religious beliefs born in fear.
Children can and do push comfort boundaries. Even the sweetest kindest most
well behaved child will at some point push the comfort boundaries of their
parents. If a parent has a big laundry list of things to fear, there will be
more comfort boundaries to push. That parent will feel as if the world is full
of things to avoid, full of things to keep their child away from, full of things
to control. The place that I came to, is that if I don't attempt to control,
combined with letting go of all those things to fear, that I can truly see the
world as a big beautiful place to live and grow and learn in, and I can truly
see my children as happy positive people that aren't out to do terrible things
that will ruin their lives. The more I let go of control and the less I fear,
the better my relationship with my children is. The comfort boundaries are
easier to navigate because they are clearer, fewer, and more defined. Since
they are, it's easier to work through them and easier to talk to my children
about, since *I* am clearer and more defined about fewer things that cause me
discomfort.
And that's it, it's MY discomfort, not theirs and that's a big important thing
to remember. The only way, that I can see that works, to have a child truly
care about my discomforts is to truly let go of fear and control. Parents can
and do fear and control. Some parents more than others. Relationships between
parents and children have been destroyed because of it.
Unschooling doesn't work well when there is fear and control, the very nature of
fear and control puts walls up where there should be openness. One can't learn
in big happy ways when there are walls up. Not everyone sees that or wants
that. Some people want walls up around their children, they want to control
their children and will do so at whatever cost for whatever fear based reason
they have. And the ONLY way to do that is to control and manipulate. Parents
do that in small ways with TV and food, when the kids are young, and large ways
through groundings and punishments, when the kids are older. One parent I know
in real life has done this in a very large way by putting her child in a reform
place away from her to be retrained to believe that she, the child, is damaged
and needs to be fixed so that she can come back home to accept her mothers
fears, values, and world views. That's an extreme example, but it DOES happen.
It is so much easier and so much more pleasant to do the internal work, as the
parent, to let go of the fear and control and in so doing you can have a
relationship with your children that is truly born of mutual respect. That is
the most beautiful side effect of unschooling. KNOWing that fear and control
can't allow happy learning to flourish and letting that idea unfold and ripple
into the whole of your lives, is really a wonderful life blessing that I never
ever expected!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
One of the problems I have is that many people are either left or right wing
or "addicted" to isms. Wendy and Naomi are "progressives" from the left,
though I cannot find the quote that verifies this right now. I find that
people coming at unschooling/life learning from either right wing or left
wing perspectives cannot fully appreciate the freedom or the space to build
relationships with their families that accompany this lifestyle choice. I
consider myself apolitical, though I had a libertarian tell me I am a
libertarian.
This is really helpful to me acknowledging and appreciating my century and
my country; remembering that the ideas that there is a right and a left are
ideas from the French Revolution. They were the seating plan with radicals
on the "left" and "conservatives" on the right. Their ideas of
conservatism, liberalism, and other isms were different from modern ones.
One of my observations is that adherence to a religion or ideology doesn't
serve families well if it stops them from developing strong relationships.
My relationship with my spouse and kids trumps any passing fancy I may
have. The thing about political divisions is that they serve political
groups very well with the right and the left carving up the population
nicely. I am always labelled a Fascist by left wing people and a Communist
by right wing people. I like to pick and choose from a smorgasbord of ideas
as an individual--this can be very upsetting to those who like to carve up
the world as being either left(anti-corporate, pro group/state control of
individuals, pro-environment) or right(pro-hierarchical family, anti-birth
control, and religious). I know that is simplistic analysis and there are
lots more "divisions" that those I listed which people from the left and
right use to demean one another or advance their own agendas, but I picked
those as my example. If you believe in families, but not hierarchical
family are you right wing or left wing? I don't care really what the
answer is, but many people who call themselves radical unschoolers care that
you be "green", that you breastfeed and that your visions match theirs.
Meredith wrote:
<<Statements like that ignore the fact that "adult advocacy" can include
support like saying "yes" to a child wanting to buy something he or she sees
in a commercial, or looking for ways to help a child feel in control of
programming>>
I think though the article has an agenda. My kids don't just need an
advocate, but they need parents who love them and trust them: parents who
are in their lives who want to be with them. My relationship with my
spouse and kids trumps my passing fancies. I have spent lots of time with
my kids. The use of the word addiction to describe a child's interest in
candy or to gaming is annoying, but dangerously inaccurate.
Personally, I don't fear sugar or media. It doesn't mean we eat sugar at
every meal or I turn the tv or computer on to get some "me time" away from
the family. These things are part of our lives like books, skates, balls,
and Lego.
I think my interest in unschooling was sparked when I was eight years old or
so by the television program The Addams Family.
I watched a lot of commercials, saw ads in magazines and on billboards.
When I was a teen I bought bonds, even though I read Seventeen magazine.
.
I don't think that commercials or media will be "addictive". I am forty
three and I spent hours playing PACman, watched VCR's as a girl and as a
teen, and grew up watching cable television.
I knew that nothing beats Tide meant Tide didn't beat any other detergent by
the time I was ten or so. Knowing that ads are selling things, just like
sales people at stores is not something children should be shielded from,
unless we are raising kids who aren't participating in real life.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
or "addicted" to isms. Wendy and Naomi are "progressives" from the left,
though I cannot find the quote that verifies this right now. I find that
people coming at unschooling/life learning from either right wing or left
wing perspectives cannot fully appreciate the freedom or the space to build
relationships with their families that accompany this lifestyle choice. I
consider myself apolitical, though I had a libertarian tell me I am a
libertarian.
This is really helpful to me acknowledging and appreciating my century and
my country; remembering that the ideas that there is a right and a left are
ideas from the French Revolution. They were the seating plan with radicals
on the "left" and "conservatives" on the right. Their ideas of
conservatism, liberalism, and other isms were different from modern ones.
One of my observations is that adherence to a religion or ideology doesn't
serve families well if it stops them from developing strong relationships.
My relationship with my spouse and kids trumps any passing fancy I may
have. The thing about political divisions is that they serve political
groups very well with the right and the left carving up the population
nicely. I am always labelled a Fascist by left wing people and a Communist
by right wing people. I like to pick and choose from a smorgasbord of ideas
as an individual--this can be very upsetting to those who like to carve up
the world as being either left(anti-corporate, pro group/state control of
individuals, pro-environment) or right(pro-hierarchical family, anti-birth
control, and religious). I know that is simplistic analysis and there are
lots more "divisions" that those I listed which people from the left and
right use to demean one another or advance their own agendas, but I picked
those as my example. If you believe in families, but not hierarchical
family are you right wing or left wing? I don't care really what the
answer is, but many people who call themselves radical unschoolers care that
you be "green", that you breastfeed and that your visions match theirs.
Meredith wrote:
<<Statements like that ignore the fact that "adult advocacy" can include
support like saying "yes" to a child wanting to buy something he or she sees
in a commercial, or looking for ways to help a child feel in control of
programming>>
I think though the article has an agenda. My kids don't just need an
advocate, but they need parents who love them and trust them: parents who
are in their lives who want to be with them. My relationship with my
spouse and kids trumps my passing fancies. I have spent lots of time with
my kids. The use of the word addiction to describe a child's interest in
candy or to gaming is annoying, but dangerously inaccurate.
Personally, I don't fear sugar or media. It doesn't mean we eat sugar at
every meal or I turn the tv or computer on to get some "me time" away from
the family. These things are part of our lives like books, skates, balls,
and Lego.
I think my interest in unschooling was sparked when I was eight years old or
so by the television program The Addams Family.
I watched a lot of commercials, saw ads in magazines and on billboards.
When I was a teen I bought bonds, even though I read Seventeen magazine.
.
I don't think that commercials or media will be "addictive". I am forty
three and I spent hours playing PACman, watched VCR's as a girl and as a
teen, and grew up watching cable television.
I knew that nothing beats Tide meant Tide didn't beat any other detergent by
the time I was ten or so. Knowing that ads are selling things, just like
sales people at stores is not something children should be shielded from,
unless we are raising kids who aren't participating in real life.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
Marina DeLuca-Howard <delucahoward@...> wrote:
Its the difference between applying or imparting principles and living by them. Lots and lots of people with strong principles seek to impart those to their kids. I used to for sure, until I realized that while Ray could parrot my principles back to me in my own words his ability to do that didn't guarantee that he accepted them as his own. That was a big "aha" moment for me, and a big step in terms of understanding how and what people learn from others.
---Meredith
> I find thatI don't see that - if anything the radical unschoolers I know tend to have very strong opinions about things! The difference is they've stepped away from wanting to raise their children to have the same opinions.
> people coming at unschooling/life learning from either right wing or left
> wing perspectives cannot fully appreciate the freedom or the space to build
> relationships with their families that accompany this lifestyle choice.
Its the difference between applying or imparting principles and living by them. Lots and lots of people with strong principles seek to impart those to their kids. I used to for sure, until I realized that while Ray could parrot my principles back to me in my own words his ability to do that didn't guarantee that he accepted them as his own. That was a big "aha" moment for me, and a big step in terms of understanding how and what people learn from others.
---Meredith
k
>>>Its the difference between applying or imparting principles and living bythem. Lots and lots of people with strong principles seek to impart those to
their kids. I used to for sure, until I realized that while Ray could parrot
my principles back to me in my own words his ability to do that didn't
guarantee that he accepted them as his own. That was a big "aha" moment for
me, and a big step in terms of understanding how and what people learn from
others.<<<
True of me too, Meredith. Especially on religion. I've been all over the
place with that and can hardly expect my child to keep up with what I'm
doing.Or food, since I've changed a lot over the years about that.
In a big way, I've given myself permission to look more deeply into things
than I had dared to before I knew about unschooling. Unschooling has opened
things up considerably. At this point, it's hard to imagine our lives
without the influence of unschooling. Really really feels
impossible-to-unwelcome to imagine.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Meredith wrote>>I don't see that - if anything the radical unschoolers I
know tend to have very strong opinions about things! The difference is
they've stepped away from wanting to raise their children to have the same
opinions>>
I agree. It is the focus on the relationships. I have very strong opinions
too:) I'm a vegetarian. I try to buy things that are locally made when
there is a choice.
I prefer cast iron cookware and glass baking dishes with lids. One I think
gives us iron and the other is easy to serve and store. My kids have no
opinion on how food is cooked. They have lots of opinions on what food we
eat and how much should be available. So, I had to re-think my ideas and
accept theirs are equally important.
I think people should be nicer to one another, or at least politely
tolerant. Mostly, my opinions are analysis of other people's strong
opinions on other possibilities. One of my strong opinions is that we close
our selves to possibilities by choosing to follow strong ideology and then
following the rules closely. Once you have an ideology whether its being
vegan(my kids love Scott Pilgrim for this joke), a Religion, or
anti-disestablishmentarianism and then stop looking for new answers or
experiences because they contradict the one true "path". If we choose loose
starting principals like love and family then we don't disown our children
for eating MacDonald's food, or being gay. The other is too try to see
others perspectives as reasonably as possible.
Even such marvelous things as unschooling and breastfeeding can be bad
choices if they cause resentment for your children or conflict with your
spouse.
Marina
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know tend to have very strong opinions about things! The difference is
they've stepped away from wanting to raise their children to have the same
opinions>>
I agree. It is the focus on the relationships. I have very strong opinions
too:) I'm a vegetarian. I try to buy things that are locally made when
there is a choice.
I prefer cast iron cookware and glass baking dishes with lids. One I think
gives us iron and the other is easy to serve and store. My kids have no
opinion on how food is cooked. They have lots of opinions on what food we
eat and how much should be available. So, I had to re-think my ideas and
accept theirs are equally important.
I think people should be nicer to one another, or at least politely
tolerant. Mostly, my opinions are analysis of other people's strong
opinions on other possibilities. One of my strong opinions is that we close
our selves to possibilities by choosing to follow strong ideology and then
following the rules closely. Once you have an ideology whether its being
vegan(my kids love Scott Pilgrim for this joke), a Religion, or
anti-disestablishmentarianism and then stop looking for new answers or
experiences because they contradict the one true "path". If we choose loose
starting principals like love and family then we don't disown our children
for eating MacDonald's food, or being gay. The other is too try to see
others perspectives as reasonably as possible.
Even such marvelous things as unschooling and breastfeeding can be bad
choices if they cause resentment for your children or conflict with your
spouse.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>If we choose loose starting principals like love and family then wedon't disown our children for eating MacDonald's food, or being gay.<<<
>>>Even such marvelous things as unschooling and breastfeeding can be badchoices if they cause resentment for your children or conflict with your
spouse.<<<
Conflict often isn't necessarily avoidable when choosing unschooling or
breastfeeding. Unschooling and breastfeeding instigate lots of conflict just
by existing in a world that usually doesn't go the way of breastfeeding or
unschooling.
Conflict is a product of people figuring out what they and others want. It's
a delicate balancing act. Like the weather, conflict might sometimes be
avoided if we see it coming. Some people are better at this than others or
they have better luck or both.
Meanwhile conflict is there before any unschooling or breastfeeding takes
place, and for me, conflict has been the instigator of the unschooling. But
I didn't choose the conflict. It was already there.
Whereas unschooling has been and continues to be an actual choice.
Unschooling to me IS choosing in the middle of being nudged along in life by
a long series of conflicts and feelings and fallouts. Some of the discord
within dissipated when I chose unschooling. And more has dissipated since.
In me, in others and between me and others.
I was reading on a mothering forum. Yesterday I think it was. Several of
those posts agreed that it was not a good plan to allow children to choose
their food. What many parents may not have discovered yet is that their own
experience plus their beginning influences plus their formation of opinion
are all overlaying the way they feel about food. Those conflicts are already
there.
For principles to enter into the mix, one has to choose them. I'm still
working on what food is for ME. It could be a huge source of conflict had I
not chosen some unschooling principles, like "children have their own lives
and plans."
Maybe one very loose starting principle could be in the neighborhood of
"not-knowingness." Of wonder and wondering. There was a thread on Facebook
about not knowing answers to questions that children ask. I'm still trying
to figure out Hiroshima, which only makes sense up to a point and then it
doesn't. Learning about food is only a tiny bit easier and every bit as
complicated.
How often is it that people have no idea about the things they think they
know? Maybe unschooling is one big Learn Nothing Day when people realize how
much indeed there is to know.
~Katherine
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Maybe one very loose starting principle could be in the neighborhood of
"not-knowingness." Of wonder and wondering. There was a thread on Facebook
about not knowing answers to questions that children ask. I'm still trying
to figure out Hiroshima, which only makes sense up to a point and then it
doesn't. Learning about food is only a tiny bit easier and every bit as
complicated.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/wonder
Some parents might want their kids to learn all the time, but think they're no longer in school and so they don't have to learn. :0)
My uncle asked me in 1962 or so what was the capital of South Dakota. I didn't know. I was like eight or nine years old. But I thought it might be interesting, so I said I don't know, what IS the capital of South Dakota? And he said he didn't know and didn't need to know, because he wasn't in school.
I don't think there should BE things people only need to know because they're in school (except maybe their schedules and locker combinations, and where the bathroom is in that building, and when's lunch).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"not-knowingness." Of wonder and wondering. There was a thread on Facebook
about not knowing answers to questions that children ask. I'm still trying
to figure out Hiroshima, which only makes sense up to a point and then it
doesn't. Learning about food is only a tiny bit easier and every bit as
complicated.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/wonder
Some parents might want their kids to learn all the time, but think they're no longer in school and so they don't have to learn. :0)
My uncle asked me in 1962 or so what was the capital of South Dakota. I didn't know. I was like eight or nine years old. But I thought it might be interesting, so I said I don't know, what IS the capital of South Dakota? And he said he didn't know and didn't need to know, because he wasn't in school.
I don't think there should BE things people only need to know because they're in school (except maybe their schedules and locker combinations, and where the bathroom is in that building, and when's lunch).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]