Ideas for a place where it's illegal
Sandra Dodd
I have e-mail from a mom in a country where homeschooling isn't
legal. I'm going to change some details of the post to protect her
identity and location, so first rule is not to ask personal questions,
to respond to the information as presented. If you're guessing the
wrong country, that's no problem, because the archives of this list
sit and will be helpful to someone who comes by. "Same old" answers
might not work as well here as they would in a place where one has
support groups and can be out in the daytime.
Separately, I'll post what I responded, but I hope some of you will
respond without reading that or other responses, because when
something is said separately by different people, it's very reinforcing.
From here to the bottom, then, is the post by a mom I will call Wendy
(which is not her real name). Wendy and her children Bob and John (my
characters in the slightly edited version).
===========================================
[It started out saying the mom has found a way to make this work even
though homeschooling isn't legal, and they've been unschooling for two
months.]
I found a way to do it and I especially love what I read about the
unschooling. But I need your help with something. My sons are [about
9/10/11] and [three years older] and they made very different school
experiences. [Bob, the older one] made very bad ones and [John] I took
out before he would make them..now, Bob likes to watch TV all day,
John not really but he is not following his own way yet cause he
thinks if Bob watches so much tv he should do this too or play pc games.
I am very new with unschooling and deschooling myself, as is Bob.
John asks for learning not to get stupid, as he says.
My problem at the moment is the difference in the kids' needs.
Probably its a question of having the trust, that John will find his
own way, that I should just let him. And the other thing is the
question, how much do I lead and offer, and when is it beginning to be
too much? Me personally, I would love to just let them do what they
want, and also just follow my own interests, but now my own interests
seem to me egotistic to follow.
I feel as if I would have to offer a lot here and there, drive them
around and do things that might interest them. But I don't want to
take that role; on the other hand I do, but I have no way yet. It's
all very confusing and sometimes all so natural.
John today asked me, why I let them watch tv all day and play computer
games and I couldn't really answer it. I said I want them to do what
they like to do and then he asked me if they can do this everyday and
I didn't know what to answer. I felt silly and confusing to John. How
to explain something I just develop?
I want them to see tv just as a normal option, so that it loses its
big interest. But this is a rational thought and a plan and I don't
feel right telling him that and even with this I don't know exactly
why. Just letting them seems so easy.
Am I just acting egotistically, because this gives me also lots of
free time, or do I really do this for them?
Why is it so difficult to just trust? And how is it possible, that two
boys can sit in front of a tv and pc for 12 hours straight? Cause it
was always restricted, okay. I want to change but I often don't know
how to explain and how to combine all different interests, including
mine. Sorry for my insecurity..
What do I tell my boys? "You know best what's good for you.." doesn't
sound right. I read so much but don't have the right words yet..I
hope you have the time to help me with your experience. Thanks for
your great website. It's wonderful to read there.
legal. I'm going to change some details of the post to protect her
identity and location, so first rule is not to ask personal questions,
to respond to the information as presented. If you're guessing the
wrong country, that's no problem, because the archives of this list
sit and will be helpful to someone who comes by. "Same old" answers
might not work as well here as they would in a place where one has
support groups and can be out in the daytime.
Separately, I'll post what I responded, but I hope some of you will
respond without reading that or other responses, because when
something is said separately by different people, it's very reinforcing.
From here to the bottom, then, is the post by a mom I will call Wendy
(which is not her real name). Wendy and her children Bob and John (my
characters in the slightly edited version).
===========================================
[It started out saying the mom has found a way to make this work even
though homeschooling isn't legal, and they've been unschooling for two
months.]
I found a way to do it and I especially love what I read about the
unschooling. But I need your help with something. My sons are [about
9/10/11] and [three years older] and they made very different school
experiences. [Bob, the older one] made very bad ones and [John] I took
out before he would make them..now, Bob likes to watch TV all day,
John not really but he is not following his own way yet cause he
thinks if Bob watches so much tv he should do this too or play pc games.
I am very new with unschooling and deschooling myself, as is Bob.
John asks for learning not to get stupid, as he says.
My problem at the moment is the difference in the kids' needs.
Probably its a question of having the trust, that John will find his
own way, that I should just let him. And the other thing is the
question, how much do I lead and offer, and when is it beginning to be
too much? Me personally, I would love to just let them do what they
want, and also just follow my own interests, but now my own interests
seem to me egotistic to follow.
I feel as if I would have to offer a lot here and there, drive them
around and do things that might interest them. But I don't want to
take that role; on the other hand I do, but I have no way yet. It's
all very confusing and sometimes all so natural.
John today asked me, why I let them watch tv all day and play computer
games and I couldn't really answer it. I said I want them to do what
they like to do and then he asked me if they can do this everyday and
I didn't know what to answer. I felt silly and confusing to John. How
to explain something I just develop?
I want them to see tv just as a normal option, so that it loses its
big interest. But this is a rational thought and a plan and I don't
feel right telling him that and even with this I don't know exactly
why. Just letting them seems so easy.
Am I just acting egotistically, because this gives me also lots of
free time, or do I really do this for them?
Why is it so difficult to just trust? And how is it possible, that two
boys can sit in front of a tv and pc for 12 hours straight? Cause it
was always restricted, okay. I want to change but I often don't know
how to explain and how to combine all different interests, including
mine. Sorry for my insecurity..
What do I tell my boys? "You know best what's good for you.." doesn't
sound right. I read so much but don't have the right words yet..I
hope you have the time to help me with your experience. Thanks for
your great website. It's wonderful to read there.
Sandra Dodd
My response to "Wendy":
You should spend as much time with them as you would if you would if
they were in school. All the time you would have spent helping with
homework, getting their clothes and supplies together, making their
lunches, driving them--you should be spending that much time and more
with them, helping them, bringing them food, SOMEthing.
They do NOT "know what's good for them." You don't know either. What
you could come to know is that they are learning.
They're not just sitting in front of a tv, unless it's turned off.
Would you EVER write "how is it possible that someone can sit and
stare at a book for three hours straight?"
I'm going to take this to Always Learning, but without your name, and
I'll clean it up a bit and try to make it less obvious who it is. If
there is discussion, you probably shouldn't even respond. There's no
reason to say "That was me."
You should spend as much time with them as you would if you would if
they were in school. All the time you would have spent helping with
homework, getting their clothes and supplies together, making their
lunches, driving them--you should be spending that much time and more
with them, helping them, bringing them food, SOMEthing.
They do NOT "know what's good for them." You don't know either. What
you could come to know is that they are learning.
They're not just sitting in front of a tv, unless it's turned off.
Would you EVER write "how is it possible that someone can sit and
stare at a book for three hours straight?"
I'm going to take this to Always Learning, but without your name, and
I'll clean it up a bit and try to make it less obvious who it is. If
there is discussion, you probably shouldn't even respond. There's no
reason to say "That was me."
Joyce Fetteroll
> "You know best what's good for you.." doesn'tIt seems wrong to you and feels wrong to them because they're off
> sound right.
balance right now because TV and computers were limited before.
They know what they're off-balance selves need: more TV and computer.
But it feels wrong because they may sense their balanced selves
wouldn't need that much.
If a big swimming pool has a tiny leak, you'd only need to add a
bucket of water to it each day. Adding a bucket each day would keep it
balanced. If you don't add water to it each day, it will keep draining
until it's empty. If you then added just a bucket a day, it wouldn't
fill. If you only added 2 buckets a day, it would take months and
months to fill. But if you turned the hose on and just let it run
until the pool was filled, *then* you could add just a bucket a day.
Right now they're in the let the hose run stage. But this won't last
forever. They *will* eventually feel like they've gotten to the full
point where they just need as much as they need each day.
> I want them to see tv just as a normal option, so that it loses itsRight now they can't see it as a normal option. Things you love that
> big interest.
were very limited won't suddenly feel normal if there's a surplus. It
takes a while to fill up, takes a while for the emotions to trust the
head's knowledge. Just knowing that TV and computers are unlimited now
isn't enough for the emotions to trust it. They need to experience it
for months before the newness wears off and unlimited feels normal.
> And the other thing is theThere isn't an easy answer to that because it depends on your and your
> question, how much do I lead and offer, and when is it beginning to be
> too much? Me personally, I would love to just let them do what they
> want, and also just follow my own interests, but now my own interests
> seem to me egotistic to follow.
kids' personalities. You need to get to know them and their needs and
let go of any voices that are telling you what kids-in-general need.
You need to learn to listen to what they need.
*But* what's especially confusing right now is your kids don't
necessarily know what they need right now. They know what they were
told they need. They know what other kids are told they need. They
know they were told their own needs weren't as important as what
adults wanted for them. So right now they're confused too.
That's normal. Uncomfortable! but normal. Reassure them that they'll
feel a bit off balance as their pools fill up. :-)
What you can do is make sure the doors to other interesting
opportunities are kept open. Make plans to get out of the house
occasionally. Not to fix the kids but to shake up their days so they
have different activities running through their lives. But right now
the most important thing is the filling of their pools.
Read Sandra's Deschooling page:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
But don't expect right now to feel smooth. The days spent in school
are like living with a broken leg. The days when unschooling runs
smoothly are like living with two strong legs. But the deschooling
phase between them is like living with a cast while the leg heals. It
won't be as bad as school but won't be as smooth as unschooling.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Having broken my leg once (badly--spiral fracture of both lower bones)
and my ankle once, I think this analogy by Joyce is PERFECT!!!!!!
Read Sandra's Deschooling page:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
But don't expect right now to feel smooth. The days spent in school
are like living with a broken leg. The days when unschooling runs
smoothly are like living with two strong legs. But the deschooling
phase between them is like living with a cast while the leg heals. It
won't be as bad as school but won't be as smooth as unschooling.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
And I'm adding it to the page.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and my ankle once, I think this analogy by Joyce is PERFECT!!!!!!
Read Sandra's Deschooling page:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
But don't expect right now to feel smooth. The days spent in school
are like living with a broken leg. The days when unschooling runs
smoothly are like living with two strong legs. But the deschooling
phase between them is like living with a cast while the leg heals. It
won't be as bad as school but won't be as smooth as unschooling.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
And I'm adding it to the page.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
The bucket and the pool was awesome too!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: AlwaysLearning <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Oct 24, 2010 2:19 pm
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Joyce's awesome analogies!!!
Having broken my leg once (badly--spiral fracture of both lower bones)
and my ankle once, I think this analogy by Joyce is PERFECT!!!!!!
Read Sandra's Deschooling page:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
But don't expect right now to feel smooth. The days spent in school
are like living with a broken leg. The days when unschooling runs
smoothly are like living with two strong legs. But the deschooling
phase between them is like living with a cast while the leg heals. It
won't be as bad as school but won't be as smooth as unschooling.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
And I'm adding it to the page.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: AlwaysLearning <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Oct 24, 2010 2:19 pm
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Joyce's awesome analogies!!!
Having broken my leg once (badly--spiral fracture of both lower bones)
and my ankle once, I think this analogy by Joyce is PERFECT!!!!!!
Read Sandra's Deschooling page:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
But don't expect right now to feel smooth. The days spent in school
are like living with a broken leg. The days when unschooling runs
smoothly are like living with two strong legs. But the deschooling
phase between them is like living with a cast while the leg heals. It
won't be as bad as school but won't be as smooth as unschooling.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
And I'm adding it to the page.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-The bucket and the pool was awesome too!-=-
You're right. I need to find a place for that, too. Under...
abundance? (I'll poke around and see where it might be easily seen
and appreciated.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You're right. I need to find a place for that, too. Under...
abundance? (I'll poke around and see where it might be easily seen
and appreciated.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***My problem at the moment is the difference in the kids' needs.
Probably its a question of having the trust, that John will find his
own way, that I should just let him. And the other thing is the
question, how much do I lead and offer, and when is it beginning to be
too much? Me personally, I would love to just let them do what they
want, and also just follow my own interests, but now my own interests
seem to me egotistic to follow.***
It will happen at some point where you'll be able to follow your interests.
What happened with me, is that my interests collided with my children and
meshed together. One of my biggest interests IS my children and what they are
interested in.
There's a fairly long deschooling process for a 10 yr old. Probably about half
a year. The 3 yr old probably doesn't need to deschool. If it were me, I'd
leave the 10 yr old alone for a bit and do stuff with the younger one for now.
Offer things up to the older one as you go along, but allow for it to be
optional. He WILL start doing things again! TV and PC games are fun and
engaging. He wouldn't be doing that unless it was. Part of what he's reacting
to, is the fact that it was controlled before and now it isn't. He will want as
much as possible until he knows for sure that it won't get taken away.
***I want them to see tv just as a normal option, so that it loses its
big interest. But this is a rational thought and a plan and I don't
feel right telling him that and even with this I don't know exactly
why. Just letting them seems so easy.***
It might be better if the focus isn't on losing TV as a big interest. Accept
that it is right now a big interest. All kids have is right now. It's possible
that TV will always be a big interest. Some kids really like TV. Some kids
grow up and become actors or producers or directors or animators or sound
technicians or advertisers. Those are interesting fields to get into. But,
that shouldn't be the focus either. The focus is on right now. He likes TV
right now and until that interest changes, engage him in what he likes right
now. Offer more and different and better TV options, watch together, talk about
things, build things while you watch, find more games for the PC, offer more
options. Eventually one thing leads to the next and in the ever expanding
world, he'll absorb more and learn more and connect more dots. One day you'll
be out and about and he'll surprise you with something he knows that's really
cool and when you ask where he learned it, he'll tell you the show from TV that
he learned it from.
***Am I just acting egotistically, because this gives me also lots of
free time, or do I really do this for them?
Why is it so difficult to just trust? And how is it possible, that two
boys can sit in front of a tv and pc for 12 hours straight?***
Happy contented TV watching is great, but why they are watching is important
too. If it's because there aren't any other options, then that's not a good
thing. Watch with them. Bring things into their space to do with them. Go
places if you can. If homeschooling or unschooling is illegal then you should
step it up at home and get out after school hours. It doesn't need to look like
school or curriculum, but you should be able to see learning happening and be
able to describe it academically.
The parents tend to need way more deschooling than the kids!
***What do I tell my boys? "You know best what's good for you.." doesn't
sound right. ***
I wouldn't say anything like that. I'd spend more time with them and talk more
and be more engaged and through that find real talking points and real ideas to
play with.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Probably its a question of having the trust, that John will find his
own way, that I should just let him. And the other thing is the
question, how much do I lead and offer, and when is it beginning to be
too much? Me personally, I would love to just let them do what they
want, and also just follow my own interests, but now my own interests
seem to me egotistic to follow.***
It will happen at some point where you'll be able to follow your interests.
What happened with me, is that my interests collided with my children and
meshed together. One of my biggest interests IS my children and what they are
interested in.
There's a fairly long deschooling process for a 10 yr old. Probably about half
a year. The 3 yr old probably doesn't need to deschool. If it were me, I'd
leave the 10 yr old alone for a bit and do stuff with the younger one for now.
Offer things up to the older one as you go along, but allow for it to be
optional. He WILL start doing things again! TV and PC games are fun and
engaging. He wouldn't be doing that unless it was. Part of what he's reacting
to, is the fact that it was controlled before and now it isn't. He will want as
much as possible until he knows for sure that it won't get taken away.
***I want them to see tv just as a normal option, so that it loses its
big interest. But this is a rational thought and a plan and I don't
feel right telling him that and even with this I don't know exactly
why. Just letting them seems so easy.***
It might be better if the focus isn't on losing TV as a big interest. Accept
that it is right now a big interest. All kids have is right now. It's possible
that TV will always be a big interest. Some kids really like TV. Some kids
grow up and become actors or producers or directors or animators or sound
technicians or advertisers. Those are interesting fields to get into. But,
that shouldn't be the focus either. The focus is on right now. He likes TV
right now and until that interest changes, engage him in what he likes right
now. Offer more and different and better TV options, watch together, talk about
things, build things while you watch, find more games for the PC, offer more
options. Eventually one thing leads to the next and in the ever expanding
world, he'll absorb more and learn more and connect more dots. One day you'll
be out and about and he'll surprise you with something he knows that's really
cool and when you ask where he learned it, he'll tell you the show from TV that
he learned it from.
***Am I just acting egotistically, because this gives me also lots of
free time, or do I really do this for them?
Why is it so difficult to just trust? And how is it possible, that two
boys can sit in front of a tv and pc for 12 hours straight?***
Happy contented TV watching is great, but why they are watching is important
too. If it's because there aren't any other options, then that's not a good
thing. Watch with them. Bring things into their space to do with them. Go
places if you can. If homeschooling or unschooling is illegal then you should
step it up at home and get out after school hours. It doesn't need to look like
school or curriculum, but you should be able to see learning happening and be
able to describe it academically.
The parents tend to need way more deschooling than the kids!
***What do I tell my boys? "You know best what's good for you.." doesn't
sound right. ***
I wouldn't say anything like that. I'd spend more time with them and talk more
and be more engaged and through that find real talking points and real ideas to
play with.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Ok. I'm writing without reading any others answering you. The first thing
I'd like to say is that tv and computer are fine for as many hours of the
day as one wants. Really. I personally don't think I could dream up a better
resource for homeschooling, although I'm sure something else will eventually
come along that will blow those out of the water. Technological change is a
fascinating phenomenon in itself, and that includes telescopes which were a
window to the world and indeed other worlds beginning hundreds of years ago,
as well as microscopes and electron microscopes, applicable in so many
dozens if not hundreds of fields, then skip to photography within telescopy
and light spectrum studies with these through such amazing advances as the
Hubble telescope. The internet and tv are highly social and personal devices
which end users can learn about one or many things in multiple contexts.
Getting rid of or downplaying the internet/tv is paramount to getting rid of
books, or surgery, or botany. Any technical advantage raises the level of
information exponentially and widens the field of inquiry possible. Why
would one want to go back in time or pretend there's no good use of these
things? It doesn't make sense to me.
Emotionally and culturally there is almost always a sense of ruining what we
have by discovering new things. But it isn't actually desirable to go back
to the time before fire was discovered, is it? Or art? Or medicine?
The second thing I'd like to say is to let all your interests and those of
your children serve as inspiration for strewing new materials and ideas and
objects, like seasoning on the "food" for thought that you and your children
want to be into.
Especially if you're not able to go out much. I have that too. I'm in a
one-car situation where the dad drives to work everyday and we're without
transportation most of the day. Make home as interesting as you feasibly
can. I'm about to borrow a microscope for Karl to do things with because I'd
love to expand his world as much as I can and he's definitely interested in
looking at things closer up, hence my comments above about microscopes. We
just cut the huge field around our house and there are things we could make
slides of to look at. Also my uncle who was into astronomy and photography
of things astronomical recently died and I am thinking about asking to
borrow one of his telescopes maybe. I am excited for my own chance to dive
into these things. The winter skies are clearer around here and I might get
a lot of fun out of that. Karl can dive in as much as he wants to.
Right now, Karl has discovered all kinds of games on youtube by surfing
walkthroughs, which he has been doing on a daily basis for months now. He
has a new game interest or discovery every other day. He wants to make his
own walkthroughs and when I get the money I'll get him the equipment to do
that with. Should be fun.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'd like to say is that tv and computer are fine for as many hours of the
day as one wants. Really. I personally don't think I could dream up a better
resource for homeschooling, although I'm sure something else will eventually
come along that will blow those out of the water. Technological change is a
fascinating phenomenon in itself, and that includes telescopes which were a
window to the world and indeed other worlds beginning hundreds of years ago,
as well as microscopes and electron microscopes, applicable in so many
dozens if not hundreds of fields, then skip to photography within telescopy
and light spectrum studies with these through such amazing advances as the
Hubble telescope. The internet and tv are highly social and personal devices
which end users can learn about one or many things in multiple contexts.
Getting rid of or downplaying the internet/tv is paramount to getting rid of
books, or surgery, or botany. Any technical advantage raises the level of
information exponentially and widens the field of inquiry possible. Why
would one want to go back in time or pretend there's no good use of these
things? It doesn't make sense to me.
Emotionally and culturally there is almost always a sense of ruining what we
have by discovering new things. But it isn't actually desirable to go back
to the time before fire was discovered, is it? Or art? Or medicine?
The second thing I'd like to say is to let all your interests and those of
your children serve as inspiration for strewing new materials and ideas and
objects, like seasoning on the "food" for thought that you and your children
want to be into.
Especially if you're not able to go out much. I have that too. I'm in a
one-car situation where the dad drives to work everyday and we're without
transportation most of the day. Make home as interesting as you feasibly
can. I'm about to borrow a microscope for Karl to do things with because I'd
love to expand his world as much as I can and he's definitely interested in
looking at things closer up, hence my comments above about microscopes. We
just cut the huge field around our house and there are things we could make
slides of to look at. Also my uncle who was into astronomy and photography
of things astronomical recently died and I am thinking about asking to
borrow one of his telescopes maybe. I am excited for my own chance to dive
into these things. The winter skies are clearer around here and I might get
a lot of fun out of that. Karl can dive in as much as he wants to.
Right now, Karl has discovered all kinds of games on youtube by surfing
walkthroughs, which he has been doing on a daily basis for months now. He
has a new game interest or discovery every other day. He wants to make his
own walkthroughs and when I get the money I'll get him the equipment to do
that with. Should be fun.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John and Amanda Slater
We have a similar dynamic with the TV here. Eli (9) really like to watch and
Samuel (7) tends to watch because Eli is. The TV is in the living room so Eli
does not have to be alone to watch.
I have begun to gently insist that we do something together every day. Normally
it just happens, but if it does not I'll push it. Right now the options are
normally something like: Build the K'nex model they are working on, playing a
video/board/card game we all like, reading a few chapters of a book we are
reading aloud, watching something we can all enjoy, taking a walk, etc. Often
once we start something else they don't turn the TV back on so quickly, and when
occasionally they do, I know they are choosing it because they want to, not just
because it is there.
In our house, anything to break the rut of watching, even for a few minutes
often leads to new ideas. Sometimes it is as simple as pausing the show to
check something said that sparks a discussion. If you can find a way to pursue
your own interest in the same space they are in, connections seem to happen all
the time.
Amanda
Eli 9, Samuel 7
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Samuel (7) tends to watch because Eli is. The TV is in the living room so Eli
does not have to be alone to watch.
I have begun to gently insist that we do something together every day. Normally
it just happens, but if it does not I'll push it. Right now the options are
normally something like: Build the K'nex model they are working on, playing a
video/board/card game we all like, reading a few chapters of a book we are
reading aloud, watching something we can all enjoy, taking a walk, etc. Often
once we start something else they don't turn the TV back on so quickly, and when
occasionally they do, I know they are choosing it because they want to, not just
because it is there.
In our house, anything to break the rut of watching, even for a few minutes
often leads to new ideas. Sometimes it is as simple as pausing the show to
check something said that sparks a discussion. If you can find a way to pursue
your own interest in the same space they are in, connections seem to happen all
the time.
Amanda
Eli 9, Samuel 7
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-In our house, anything to break the rut of watching, even for a few
minutes
often leads to new ideas.-=-
But you could be preventing the acquisition and the spark of new idea
by "breaking the rut."
When you refer to watching television as a rut that needs to be
broken, you say more than you meant to.
You might have said more than you knew you were thinking.
If they were reading books, would you be relieved that something
(anything) broke the rut of reading?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
minutes
often leads to new ideas.-=-
But you could be preventing the acquisition and the spark of new idea
by "breaking the rut."
When you refer to watching television as a rut that needs to be
broken, you say more than you meant to.
You might have said more than you knew you were thinking.
If they were reading books, would you be relieved that something
(anything) broke the rut of reading?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
>> John today asked me, why I let them watch tv all day and play computerTell him you¡¦re taking a big vacation from doing anything schoolish. If he wants to know why, you can talk about how the way schools teach interferes with learning ¡V not a lot, just say that they do. In order for him to learn without school, he needs a break from schoolish stuff.
> games and I couldn't really answer it.
Ray was nervous about unschooling when he came home at 13. He was nervous that if I didn¡¦t tell him what to learn, there must be some secret agenda (his bio mom has lots of secret agendas, so he had good reason to worry!). So it helped him to have a framework for why he wasn¡¦t expected to be doing school-like things ¡§independently¡¨ ¡V which was what he thought unschooling would be like at first.
> I feel as if I would have to offer a lot here and there, drive themDepending on what you mean, offering and taking kids places and doing things with them is a big, important part of unschooling. Its easy to fall into a rut where kids (like adults) do things more on auto-pilot than because its what they really want to be doing. They¡¦ll need your help keeping their world big and fresh and open¡K eventually. Right now though, they need time to deschool so the help they need is different. They need you to hang out with them and offer plenty of love and care. Make fun snacks, offer fun movies, offer to learn to play a video game so you can play two-player games¡K whatever sorts of fun they like. Think of fun out-of-the-house things, too ¡V what might you do on vacation? What would be fun?
> around and do things that might interest them. But I don't want to
> take that role; on the other hand I do
Eventually that kind of thinking and planning will be part of your unschooling life, but more often it will be in response to what your kids enjoy already. Right now, their ability to enjoy life is a bit hampered, so it will be up to you to be gentle and kind and offer light-hearted fun that doesn¡¦t look anything like a ¡§learning experience¡¨.
> Am I just acting egotistically, because this gives me also lots ofThat¡¦s a really important question to ask yourself! Unschooling isn¡¦t necessarily easier or more laid-back. Teens, especially, often want to get out and do things, so expecting unschooling to give you a lot of free time can set you up for a lot of frustration.
> free time, or do I really do this for them?
« Why is it so difficult to just trust
How much were you trusted as a child? How much do you trust yourself now? Some of that is going to come into play ¡V that¡¦s why parents need to deschool too, often More than kids, we have decades more baggage saying ¡§you can¡¦t, you¡¦re not (qualified, old enough, ready, smart enough, rich enough, whatever)¡¨.
> And how is it possible, that twoAnd because they need time to relax and decompress. School puts a lot of pressure on kids! They need time to heal from all that pressure.
> boys can sit in front of a tv and pc for 12 hours straight? Cause it
> was always restricted, okay.
Plus, you wrote that it has only been two months ¡V so they don¡¦t yet have any reason to trust that this will last. That¡¦s part of why people binge on something that has been limited ¡V you never know when you¡¦ll get it again, so get all you can Now. Heck, I do that with seasonal fruits and veggies to some extent! Once they have a sense that the tv will always be there (and they get caught up on all their favorite shows) the watching will grow less and they¡¦ll become more discriminating, too.
For now, sit with them at least part of the day. If any of your interests can be accomplished in the same room, find a way to do that. See what they find interesting and what they¡¦re watching just because they can ¡V you don¡¦t have to say anything about that, just notice, so you can start to get a sense of what they enjoy.
---Meredith
m_aduhene
hi,
just wanted to ask a question related to this bit.
"It doesn't need to look like school or curriculum, but you should be able to see learning happening and be able to describe it academically."
my daughter is nearly 10 and has got into sims in a big way. she plays a lot and i create families with her sometimes when she asks and join in making houses and playing in them. but how do i describe her huge interest in this game in academic terms to the LEA inspector who is coming to our house. i do a lot with the children outside of the house which i can justify in academic terms, but if the inspector asks about what my daughter is doing in the house, this game is her main activity and i need to explain it.
thanks for any ideas
blessings
michelle
just wanted to ask a question related to this bit.
"It doesn't need to look like school or curriculum, but you should be able to see learning happening and be able to describe it academically."
my daughter is nearly 10 and has got into sims in a big way. she plays a lot and i create families with her sometimes when she asks and join in making houses and playing in them. but how do i describe her huge interest in this game in academic terms to the LEA inspector who is coming to our house. i do a lot with the children outside of the house which i can justify in academic terms, but if the inspector asks about what my daughter is doing in the house, this game is her main activity and i need to explain it.
thanks for any ideas
blessings
michelle
Bea
I played SIMS a looooong time ago, so I checked online for a description of the newer version. Here is something I found:
http://www.answers.com/topic/the-sims-game
It's a very complex game!
Here is part of that description:
"You'll guide your Sims in life-development phases such as having children, feeding hungers, basic survival needs, hygiene, comfort, energy levels, fun, social interaction (e.g., dancing, affairs, marriage), body-building, cooking, skill development, and even bladder control. Chemistry between your Sims is a product of your manipulations as well -- slippery, smooth, introverted, extroverted, positive, and negative thinkers -- all form the level and style of interaction through conversations with other Sims.
The Sims has a range of ten career tracks for your breadwinners to follow and each career advancement requires specific skills for success. For example, a minimum-wage mailroom clerk must have Body, Charisma, and Repair Skills while a person in the medical field must have Logic to go along with Repair skills. There are ten levels of positions within each of the ten career tracks -- your Sims can work their way up in career fields such as entertainment, law enforcement, crime, medical, military, politics, athletics, science, or extreme (daredevil)."
In these two paragraphs, I've already found lots of things I could use to describe it in terms an inspector would like:
Strategy (that's a big one, this game is all about strategy)
Math
Basic psychology
Building organizational skills
Exploring career tracks
Video games are amazing learning tools, in my opinion!
Bea
http://www.answers.com/topic/the-sims-game
It's a very complex game!
Here is part of that description:
"You'll guide your Sims in life-development phases such as having children, feeding hungers, basic survival needs, hygiene, comfort, energy levels, fun, social interaction (e.g., dancing, affairs, marriage), body-building, cooking, skill development, and even bladder control. Chemistry between your Sims is a product of your manipulations as well -- slippery, smooth, introverted, extroverted, positive, and negative thinkers -- all form the level and style of interaction through conversations with other Sims.
The Sims has a range of ten career tracks for your breadwinners to follow and each career advancement requires specific skills for success. For example, a minimum-wage mailroom clerk must have Body, Charisma, and Repair Skills while a person in the medical field must have Logic to go along with Repair skills. There are ten levels of positions within each of the ten career tracks -- your Sims can work their way up in career fields such as entertainment, law enforcement, crime, medical, military, politics, athletics, science, or extreme (daredevil)."
In these two paragraphs, I've already found lots of things I could use to describe it in terms an inspector would like:
Strategy (that's a big one, this game is all about strategy)
Math
Basic psychology
Building organizational skills
Exploring career tracks
Video games are amazing learning tools, in my opinion!
Bea
--- In [email protected], "m_aduhene" <m_aduhene@...> wrote:
> my daughter is nearly 10 and has got into sims in a big way. she plays a lot and i create families with her sometimes when she asks and join in making houses and playing in them. but how do i describe her huge interest in this game in academic terms to the LEA inspector who is coming to our house. i do a lot with the children outside of the house which i can justify in academic terms, but if the inspector asks about what my daughter is doing in the house, this game is her main activity and i need to explain it.
>
Jenny Cyphers
***my daughter is nearly 10 and has got into sims in a big way. she plays a lot
and i create families with her sometimes when she asks and join in making houses
and playing in them. but how do i describe her huge interest in this game in
academic terms to the LEA inspector who is coming to our house. ***
Sims is a huge multi-task game. You need to keep track of everyone and
everything going on in the game. It's hugely about social interactions, cause
and effect, fashion, architecture, design, strategy, family relations, working
within a system, keeping track of time and bodily functions, and learning cheats
around things. It's also very interesting to compare new and old versions,
extension packs, and ways things have improved or changed to make things work
better. The newest version, I heard, lets you angle things, which is super
awesome. In real life one can put a chair in a corner with tables on either
side and STILL be able to use it. There is a brilliant video, horror spoof, on
college humor... http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1922223
My oldest daughter spent a LOT of time finding ways to kill her sims. It's
morbid, but it was fascinating. The easiest and quickest way is to put them in
a swimming pool and take out the ladder. I thought that was interesting.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and i create families with her sometimes when she asks and join in making houses
and playing in them. but how do i describe her huge interest in this game in
academic terms to the LEA inspector who is coming to our house. ***
Sims is a huge multi-task game. You need to keep track of everyone and
everything going on in the game. It's hugely about social interactions, cause
and effect, fashion, architecture, design, strategy, family relations, working
within a system, keeping track of time and bodily functions, and learning cheats
around things. It's also very interesting to compare new and old versions,
extension packs, and ways things have improved or changed to make things work
better. The newest version, I heard, lets you angle things, which is super
awesome. In real life one can put a chair in a corner with tables on either
side and STILL be able to use it. There is a brilliant video, horror spoof, on
college humor... http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1922223
My oldest daughter spent a LOT of time finding ways to kill her sims. It's
morbid, but it was fascinating. The easiest and quickest way is to put them in
a swimming pool and take out the ladder. I thought that was interesting.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]