Different needs for deschooling?
Katrine Clip
It's been a year since we pulled our twin boys (now 9) out of school
in 2nd grade. Our oldest son (11) finished 5th grade last school year
and has been home since then! The twins struggled with school and
expectations, repeated 1st grade, had lots of tutoring and one of them
had an IEP because of the ADHD label. We have been
deschooling/unschooling for a year now with them.
I'm seeing one of my twins really coming out of his deschooling the
last few weeks. Daniel is now a happy, sunny child, curious about
everything and wanting to learn about everything around him. He wants
to read and write again, wants to learn Italian, architecture,
archery, knitting..... Last week he picked up a "Diary of a Wimpy Kid"
book and read it all in a few days. He's never read a book before!
Now, he's using my computer a lot to write a diary like the book. He's
asking for spelling and I'm delighted to help! He tells me every day
about all the classes he wants to take to learn everything he's
interested in. And that next year, he wants to go to school. Hm. I'm
telling him that I can teach him knitting, I've ordered an Italian
course for both of us to learn together, and there are lots of classes
offered in our homeschool community so he can learn the other things
he wants to.
His twin brother Alexander is quite different (though they are
identical;-) : His interests are Pokemon, like his brothers, and
fantasy games involving Pokemon. He reads about Pokemon characters on
pokemon.com and wants to watch every episode of Pokemon there and on
YouTube (with his twin brother). But he hasn't had a "break through"
yet, he's still negative, bored, uninterested in things (except
Pokemon). I need to spend a lot more time with him, and be very
patient and loving because he's so sensitive.
I wonder if Alexander is feeling somehow in his twin brother's shadow?
Is he jealous? When Daniel has a drawing phase, he's not doing it. Now
that Daniel suddenly wants to read, he definitely doesn't want to even
when I offered to buy him a book too. He didn't see any that he liked
there when I got the book for Daniel. If they had had an "all about
Pokemon characters" he would have asked for it! I'm looking at Amazon
now to see if I can find that, it would be very useful for him. He
still hasn't discovered the "joy of reading" but he reads for
information.
And then, our 11 year old who's most recently out of school, doesn't
seem to need deschooling like his brothers. Thomas' experience in
school has been very different too, he never struggled, he did well
academically and was well liked by his teachers because he learned
fast and wasn't difficult to deal with. Since the beginning of summer,
he's been into everything Pokemon, he's living, breathing, dreaming,
talking, writing Pokemon. It's wonderful to see that he has all the
time he needs for his interest now. His dream is to become a Pokemon
champion, to participate in competitions world wide. He's writing
articles and submitting to blogs and discussing with others on forums.
He's so happy. Luckily, my husband is playing and battling with the
boys and learning about the strategies too. So he's able to understand
what's going on, I'm mostly an onlooker! And I see that there's an
incredible amount of strategy and thought and focus needed to do what
they do.
My question about deschooling is then: does everybody need
deschooling? It doesn't seem to me that my oldest son is deschooling,
he seems to have gone straight to unschooling. He's doing great, he's
following his interests, his relationship with his brothers has never
been better (they used to fight MUCH more when he was in school). When
he was in school last year, he told me he was worried about his
brothers' future because he saw they weren't doing school work and
apparently weren't learning anything, how would they ever get into
college... And he certainly did not want to homeschool and become like
them. He changed his mind later though, when we told him about our
travel plans. I actually think he would have started middle school
with his friends if we hadn't planned to do a couple of long trips in
the middle of the school year! And now that he IS home with us, he's
enjoying it so much, he's never bored (a word his brothers use a lot).
As for my husband and I, we still have a lot of deschooling to do. I'm
so grateful we went to the conference in Sacramento in August, it
helped my husband understand more about unschooling and the need for
deschooling. He's been incredibly supportive since then. And he's
writing about it on Facebook and Twitter quite often! I'm amazed at
how well things are going after a rough start when I wanted to
homeschool and unschool and he was against it. But I'm still a little
afraid in the back of my mind, I hope the boys will shine, that they
will "prove" to their father that this is indeed the right path for
us. He values academic success, he wants them to get a college
education, we can skip the entire school now but college is essential
for him!
Thank you,
Katrine
in 2nd grade. Our oldest son (11) finished 5th grade last school year
and has been home since then! The twins struggled with school and
expectations, repeated 1st grade, had lots of tutoring and one of them
had an IEP because of the ADHD label. We have been
deschooling/unschooling for a year now with them.
I'm seeing one of my twins really coming out of his deschooling the
last few weeks. Daniel is now a happy, sunny child, curious about
everything and wanting to learn about everything around him. He wants
to read and write again, wants to learn Italian, architecture,
archery, knitting..... Last week he picked up a "Diary of a Wimpy Kid"
book and read it all in a few days. He's never read a book before!
Now, he's using my computer a lot to write a diary like the book. He's
asking for spelling and I'm delighted to help! He tells me every day
about all the classes he wants to take to learn everything he's
interested in. And that next year, he wants to go to school. Hm. I'm
telling him that I can teach him knitting, I've ordered an Italian
course for both of us to learn together, and there are lots of classes
offered in our homeschool community so he can learn the other things
he wants to.
His twin brother Alexander is quite different (though they are
identical;-) : His interests are Pokemon, like his brothers, and
fantasy games involving Pokemon. He reads about Pokemon characters on
pokemon.com and wants to watch every episode of Pokemon there and on
YouTube (with his twin brother). But he hasn't had a "break through"
yet, he's still negative, bored, uninterested in things (except
Pokemon). I need to spend a lot more time with him, and be very
patient and loving because he's so sensitive.
I wonder if Alexander is feeling somehow in his twin brother's shadow?
Is he jealous? When Daniel has a drawing phase, he's not doing it. Now
that Daniel suddenly wants to read, he definitely doesn't want to even
when I offered to buy him a book too. He didn't see any that he liked
there when I got the book for Daniel. If they had had an "all about
Pokemon characters" he would have asked for it! I'm looking at Amazon
now to see if I can find that, it would be very useful for him. He
still hasn't discovered the "joy of reading" but he reads for
information.
And then, our 11 year old who's most recently out of school, doesn't
seem to need deschooling like his brothers. Thomas' experience in
school has been very different too, he never struggled, he did well
academically and was well liked by his teachers because he learned
fast and wasn't difficult to deal with. Since the beginning of summer,
he's been into everything Pokemon, he's living, breathing, dreaming,
talking, writing Pokemon. It's wonderful to see that he has all the
time he needs for his interest now. His dream is to become a Pokemon
champion, to participate in competitions world wide. He's writing
articles and submitting to blogs and discussing with others on forums.
He's so happy. Luckily, my husband is playing and battling with the
boys and learning about the strategies too. So he's able to understand
what's going on, I'm mostly an onlooker! And I see that there's an
incredible amount of strategy and thought and focus needed to do what
they do.
My question about deschooling is then: does everybody need
deschooling? It doesn't seem to me that my oldest son is deschooling,
he seems to have gone straight to unschooling. He's doing great, he's
following his interests, his relationship with his brothers has never
been better (they used to fight MUCH more when he was in school). When
he was in school last year, he told me he was worried about his
brothers' future because he saw they weren't doing school work and
apparently weren't learning anything, how would they ever get into
college... And he certainly did not want to homeschool and become like
them. He changed his mind later though, when we told him about our
travel plans. I actually think he would have started middle school
with his friends if we hadn't planned to do a couple of long trips in
the middle of the school year! And now that he IS home with us, he's
enjoying it so much, he's never bored (a word his brothers use a lot).
As for my husband and I, we still have a lot of deschooling to do. I'm
so grateful we went to the conference in Sacramento in August, it
helped my husband understand more about unschooling and the need for
deschooling. He's been incredibly supportive since then. And he's
writing about it on Facebook and Twitter quite often! I'm amazed at
how well things are going after a rough start when I wanted to
homeschool and unschool and he was against it. But I'm still a little
afraid in the back of my mind, I hope the boys will shine, that they
will "prove" to their father that this is indeed the right path for
us. He values academic success, he wants them to get a college
education, we can skip the entire school now but college is essential
for him!
Thank you,
Katrine
Schuyler
From what you've written, your absolute joy at your son Daniel wanting to
explore the world in a fairly academic way and then the down note of your son
Alexander not embracing academic learning, it sounds like you may need to
deschool for a while longer as well. Kelly Lovejoy wrote about the stages of
unschooling which may give you some greater perspective on the
approach http://sandradodd.com/kellylovejoy/stages. Learning isn't limited to
reading and writing and studying a foreign language and spelling. Learning is
about exploring and discovering the world. And the tools that are used to do
that vary from person to person and moment to moment. It may help you to explore
some of Howard Gardener's stuff on multiple intelligence. Sandra has gathered
together and narrated a nice page on it
here: http://sandradodd.com/intelligences/. I would recommend that you spend
time just hanging with your boys and not worrying about what they are doing so
much. See each day as a fantastic opportunity to be together and don't look for
some end product other than, maybe, the joy of a day well enjoyed.
Unschooling isn't about replicating school without the pressure. It's about
recognizing that school is a construct that has a fairly narrow vision of what
an education entails. There is a video going around facebook at the moment that
The RSA did around the words of Sir Ken
Robinson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U&feature=player_embedded.
Sir Robinson talks in very sweeping ways about the structure of school and the
history of school and how it isn't fit to purpose any more because the purpose
that it originated with isn't fit to modern life. John Taylor Gatto has written
a lot as well about the history of, at least, the Eastern seaboard's education
system. And you can probably look up how the King of Prussia originally set up
public schools as an indoctrination tool (or I
can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system).
Pokemon are really cool. They cover so much of the world. I wrote something
about Pokemon ages ago that Sandra kept
here: http://sandradodd.com/game/pokemon.html. I can remember spending a day
measuring out the height of each Pokemon so that Simon could better imagine
walking alongside them, or battling with them. Ultimately, I suppose, it gave
him a better sense of feet and inches, or centimetres and metres, but
proximately it was fun and engaging and a cool way to explore Pokemon. There are
lots of cool guide books on Pokemon. We have many of them. The favourite for a
long time was one we picked up at a used bookstore. It was only the first 101,
making it to Mew 2, but it had lots of details and a poster. If Simon were awake
I'd ask for a recommendation. Actually the walkthrough books for the games have
a lot of detail which might be something that he would enjoy. It helps to see
how humans look for patterns and connections. If you feel your child is stuck
with one interest think about the connectedness of ideas and how one thing can
be a tool for exploring so much of the world. Again, turning to Sandra's
fantastic labyrinthine site (with a search
tool) http://sandradodd.com/connections/ may help you to see the truth of that.
Here's Jenny Cyphers writing about the world of learning that dance opened up
for her: http://sandradodd.com/jennycyphers/dance. Here's Elvis as a tour guide
to the world: http://sandradodd.com/dot/elvis. The melange of a life leading to
a point, kind of, instead of a single idea to pivot out
from: http://sandradodd.com/dot/hypotenuse.
Shakespeare: http://sandradodd.com/strew/shakespeare. Ah, and this, the
centerpiece: http://sandradodd.com/connections/design, a study by many voices in
how connected the world is if you just start from one point and pivot out.
Learning is vast. And the resources available now are absolutely amazing and so
often just at your fingertips. I've been learning the ukulele and while I'm not
brilliant at it I'm moving toward a kind of competence. I've had no tuition
other than exploring the internet and watching the way people strum in videos
and finding fantastically helpful sites. And the only thing that's kept me going
is my own engagement. It's without a goal, just amusement. But because of it I
have a greater understanding of musical timing and chord families and tuning and
structure and a better ear. David's wearying a bit of the song Ukulele Lady so I
try and only play that one when he's at work or asleep or in another room. But
otherwise it's a fairly unlimited pursuit.
You asked if there are degrees of needing to deschool and I think you may need
the most. If it's a month for every year in school, you've probably banked the
greatest indoctrination into the belief that school is a valuable means to an
end. And remember, every single time you look to school methods for the answers
you have to start again. Stay with the idea of a vacation. Keep looking for
things that each of your children may enjoy without expecting them too and offer
them without strings. For those with interests in Pokemon get some games, the
board games are fun, get books, or costumes, or cards, or videos, or explore
some of the Ghibli studios stuff and see if your kids like Howl's Moving Castle
or the fantastic Totoro or Kiki's Delivery Service. Find pleasure in the day
instead of learning opportunities. Architecture is everywhere, archery, with
enough space, can be a cool backyard activity. You could get nerf guns and set
up pokemon figures and shoot them down. We used to have the best B'damen battles
with lots of figures and marbles flying at them on the building block forts. I
found this via Christine
Yablonski: http://store.sportswordstore.com/fiflfoar.html that could be a nice
means to target practice.
The fact that Daniel is embracing such a schoolish approach suggests that he
still needs a lot of deschooling. Not that you need to frown on his academic
pursuits, but he may see them as the only means to becoming an educated adult.
So breathe and relax and find fun things to do and watch and listen to and hang
out near and mix it up without any pressure.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
explore the world in a fairly academic way and then the down note of your son
Alexander not embracing academic learning, it sounds like you may need to
deschool for a while longer as well. Kelly Lovejoy wrote about the stages of
unschooling which may give you some greater perspective on the
approach http://sandradodd.com/kellylovejoy/stages. Learning isn't limited to
reading and writing and studying a foreign language and spelling. Learning is
about exploring and discovering the world. And the tools that are used to do
that vary from person to person and moment to moment. It may help you to explore
some of Howard Gardener's stuff on multiple intelligence. Sandra has gathered
together and narrated a nice page on it
here: http://sandradodd.com/intelligences/. I would recommend that you spend
time just hanging with your boys and not worrying about what they are doing so
much. See each day as a fantastic opportunity to be together and don't look for
some end product other than, maybe, the joy of a day well enjoyed.
Unschooling isn't about replicating school without the pressure. It's about
recognizing that school is a construct that has a fairly narrow vision of what
an education entails. There is a video going around facebook at the moment that
The RSA did around the words of Sir Ken
Robinson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U&feature=player_embedded.
Sir Robinson talks in very sweeping ways about the structure of school and the
history of school and how it isn't fit to purpose any more because the purpose
that it originated with isn't fit to modern life. John Taylor Gatto has written
a lot as well about the history of, at least, the Eastern seaboard's education
system. And you can probably look up how the King of Prussia originally set up
public schools as an indoctrination tool (or I
can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system).
Pokemon are really cool. They cover so much of the world. I wrote something
about Pokemon ages ago that Sandra kept
here: http://sandradodd.com/game/pokemon.html. I can remember spending a day
measuring out the height of each Pokemon so that Simon could better imagine
walking alongside them, or battling with them. Ultimately, I suppose, it gave
him a better sense of feet and inches, or centimetres and metres, but
proximately it was fun and engaging and a cool way to explore Pokemon. There are
lots of cool guide books on Pokemon. We have many of them. The favourite for a
long time was one we picked up at a used bookstore. It was only the first 101,
making it to Mew 2, but it had lots of details and a poster. If Simon were awake
I'd ask for a recommendation. Actually the walkthrough books for the games have
a lot of detail which might be something that he would enjoy. It helps to see
how humans look for patterns and connections. If you feel your child is stuck
with one interest think about the connectedness of ideas and how one thing can
be a tool for exploring so much of the world. Again, turning to Sandra's
fantastic labyrinthine site (with a search
tool) http://sandradodd.com/connections/ may help you to see the truth of that.
Here's Jenny Cyphers writing about the world of learning that dance opened up
for her: http://sandradodd.com/jennycyphers/dance. Here's Elvis as a tour guide
to the world: http://sandradodd.com/dot/elvis. The melange of a life leading to
a point, kind of, instead of a single idea to pivot out
from: http://sandradodd.com/dot/hypotenuse.
Shakespeare: http://sandradodd.com/strew/shakespeare. Ah, and this, the
centerpiece: http://sandradodd.com/connections/design, a study by many voices in
how connected the world is if you just start from one point and pivot out.
Learning is vast. And the resources available now are absolutely amazing and so
often just at your fingertips. I've been learning the ukulele and while I'm not
brilliant at it I'm moving toward a kind of competence. I've had no tuition
other than exploring the internet and watching the way people strum in videos
and finding fantastically helpful sites. And the only thing that's kept me going
is my own engagement. It's without a goal, just amusement. But because of it I
have a greater understanding of musical timing and chord families and tuning and
structure and a better ear. David's wearying a bit of the song Ukulele Lady so I
try and only play that one when he's at work or asleep or in another room. But
otherwise it's a fairly unlimited pursuit.
You asked if there are degrees of needing to deschool and I think you may need
the most. If it's a month for every year in school, you've probably banked the
greatest indoctrination into the belief that school is a valuable means to an
end. And remember, every single time you look to school methods for the answers
you have to start again. Stay with the idea of a vacation. Keep looking for
things that each of your children may enjoy without expecting them too and offer
them without strings. For those with interests in Pokemon get some games, the
board games are fun, get books, or costumes, or cards, or videos, or explore
some of the Ghibli studios stuff and see if your kids like Howl's Moving Castle
or the fantastic Totoro or Kiki's Delivery Service. Find pleasure in the day
instead of learning opportunities. Architecture is everywhere, archery, with
enough space, can be a cool backyard activity. You could get nerf guns and set
up pokemon figures and shoot them down. We used to have the best B'damen battles
with lots of figures and marbles flying at them on the building block forts. I
found this via Christine
Yablonski: http://store.sportswordstore.com/fiflfoar.html that could be a nice
means to target practice.
The fact that Daniel is embracing such a schoolish approach suggests that he
still needs a lot of deschooling. Not that you need to frown on his academic
pursuits, but he may see them as the only means to becoming an educated adult.
So breathe and relax and find fun things to do and watch and listen to and hang
out near and mix it up without any pressure.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Schuyler,
Drats the link to the PokeMon isn't working, do you have another link for it? We just started playing PokeMon. Thanks Cheryl
-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
To: AlwaysLearning <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 12:40 am
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Different needs for deschooling?
From what you've written, your absolute joy at your son Daniel wanting to
explore the world in a fairly academic way and then the down note of your son
Alexander not embracing academic learning, it sounds like you may need to
deschool for a while longer as well. Kelly Lovejoy wrote about the stages of
unschooling which may give you some greater perspective on the
approach http://sandradodd.com/kellylovejoy/stages. Learning isn't limited to
reading and writing and studying a foreign language and spelling. Learning is
about exploring and discovering the world. And the tools that are used to do
that vary from person to person and moment to moment. It may help you to explore
some of Howard Gardener's stuff on multiple intelligence. Sandra has gathered
together and narrated a nice page on it
here: http://sandradodd.com/intelligences/. I would recommend that you spend
time just hanging with your boys and not worrying about what they are doing so
much. See each day as a fantastic opportunity to be together and don't look for
some end product other than, maybe, the joy of a day well enjoyed.
Unschooling isn't about replicating school without the pressure. It's about
recognizing that school is a construct that has a fairly narrow vision of what
an education entails. There is a video going around facebook at the moment that
The RSA did around the words of Sir Ken
Robinson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U&feature=player_embedded.
Sir Robinson talks in very sweeping ways about the structure of school and the
history of school and how it isn't fit to purpose any more because the purpose
that it originated with isn't fit to modern life. John Taylor Gatto has written
a lot as well about the history of, at least, the Eastern seaboard's education
system. And you can probably look up how the King of Prussia originally set up
public schools as an indoctrination tool (or I
can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system).
Pokemon are really cool. They cover so much of the world. I wrote something
about Pokemon ages ago that Sandra kept
here: http://sandradodd.com/game/pokemon.html. I can remember spending a day
measuring out the height of each Pokemon so that Simon could better imagine
walking alongside them, or battling with them. Ultimately, I suppose, it gave
him a better sense of feet and inches, or centimetres and metres, but
proximately it was fun and engaging and a cool way to explore Pokemon. There are
lots of cool guide books on Pokemon. We have many of them. The favourite for a
long time was one we picked up at a used bookstore. It was only the first 101,
making it to Mew 2, but it had lots of details and a poster. If Simon were awake
I'd ask for a recommendation. Actually the walkthrough books for the games have
a lot of detail which might be something that he would enjoy. It helps to see
how humans look for patterns and connections. If you feel your child is stuck
with one interest think about the connectedness of ideas and how one thing can
be a tool for exploring so much of the world. Again, turning to Sandra's
fantastic labyrinthine site (with a search
tool) http://sandradodd.com/connections/ may help you to see the truth of that.
Here's Jenny Cyphers writing about the world of learning that dance opened up
for her: http://sandradodd.com/jennycyphers/dance. Here's Elvis as a tour guide
to the world: http://sandradodd.com/dot/elvis. The melange of a life leading to
a point, kind of, instead of a single idea to pivot out
from: http://sandradodd.com/dot/hypotenuse.
Shakespeare: http://sandradodd.com/strew/shakespeare. Ah, and this, the
centerpiece: http://sandradodd.com/connections/design, a study by many voices in
how connected the world is if you just start from one point and pivot out.
Learning is vast. And the resources available now are absolutely amazing and so
often just at your fingertips. I've been learning the ukulele and while I'm not
brilliant at it I'm moving toward a kind of competence. I've had no tuition
other than exploring the internet and watching the way people strum in videos
and finding fantastically helpful sites. And the only thing that's kept me going
is my own engagement. It's without a goal, just amusement. But because of it I
have a greater understanding of musical timing and chord families and tuning and
structure and a better ear. David's wearying a bit of the song Ukulele Lady so I
try and only play that one when he's at work or asleep or in another room. But
otherwise it's a fairly unlimited pursuit.
You asked if there are degrees of needing to deschool and I think you may need
the most. If it's a month for every year in school, you've probably banked the
greatest indoctrination into the belief that school is a valuable means to an
end. And remember, every single time you look to school methods for the answers
you have to start again. Stay with the idea of a vacation. Keep looking for
things that each of your children may enjoy without expecting them too and offer
them without strings. For those with interests in Pokemon get some games, the
board games are fun, get books, or costumes, or cards, or videos, or explore
some of the Ghibli studios stuff and see if your kids like Howl's Moving Castle
or the fantastic Totoro or Kiki's Delivery Service. Find pleasure in the day
instead of learning opportunities. Architecture is everywhere, archery, with
enough space, can be a cool backyard activity. You could get nerf guns and set
up pokemon figures and shoot them down. We used to have the best B'damen battles
with lots of figures and marbles flying at them on the building block forts. I
found this via Christine
Yablonski: http://store.sportswordstore.com/fiflfoar.html that could be a nice
means to target practice.
The fact that Daniel is embracing such a schoolish approach suggests that he
still needs a lot of deschooling. Not that you need to frown on his academic
pursuits, but he may see them as the only means to becoming an educated adult.
So breathe and relax and find fun things to do and watch and listen to and hang
out near and mix it up without any pressure.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Drats the link to the PokeMon isn't working, do you have another link for it? We just started playing PokeMon. Thanks Cheryl
-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
To: AlwaysLearning <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 12:40 am
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Different needs for deschooling?
From what you've written, your absolute joy at your son Daniel wanting to
explore the world in a fairly academic way and then the down note of your son
Alexander not embracing academic learning, it sounds like you may need to
deschool for a while longer as well. Kelly Lovejoy wrote about the stages of
unschooling which may give you some greater perspective on the
approach http://sandradodd.com/kellylovejoy/stages. Learning isn't limited to
reading and writing and studying a foreign language and spelling. Learning is
about exploring and discovering the world. And the tools that are used to do
that vary from person to person and moment to moment. It may help you to explore
some of Howard Gardener's stuff on multiple intelligence. Sandra has gathered
together and narrated a nice page on it
here: http://sandradodd.com/intelligences/. I would recommend that you spend
time just hanging with your boys and not worrying about what they are doing so
much. See each day as a fantastic opportunity to be together and don't look for
some end product other than, maybe, the joy of a day well enjoyed.
Unschooling isn't about replicating school without the pressure. It's about
recognizing that school is a construct that has a fairly narrow vision of what
an education entails. There is a video going around facebook at the moment that
The RSA did around the words of Sir Ken
Robinson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U&feature=player_embedded.
Sir Robinson talks in very sweeping ways about the structure of school and the
history of school and how it isn't fit to purpose any more because the purpose
that it originated with isn't fit to modern life. John Taylor Gatto has written
a lot as well about the history of, at least, the Eastern seaboard's education
system. And you can probably look up how the King of Prussia originally set up
public schools as an indoctrination tool (or I
can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system).
Pokemon are really cool. They cover so much of the world. I wrote something
about Pokemon ages ago that Sandra kept
here: http://sandradodd.com/game/pokemon.html. I can remember spending a day
measuring out the height of each Pokemon so that Simon could better imagine
walking alongside them, or battling with them. Ultimately, I suppose, it gave
him a better sense of feet and inches, or centimetres and metres, but
proximately it was fun and engaging and a cool way to explore Pokemon. There are
lots of cool guide books on Pokemon. We have many of them. The favourite for a
long time was one we picked up at a used bookstore. It was only the first 101,
making it to Mew 2, but it had lots of details and a poster. If Simon were awake
I'd ask for a recommendation. Actually the walkthrough books for the games have
a lot of detail which might be something that he would enjoy. It helps to see
how humans look for patterns and connections. If you feel your child is stuck
with one interest think about the connectedness of ideas and how one thing can
be a tool for exploring so much of the world. Again, turning to Sandra's
fantastic labyrinthine site (with a search
tool) http://sandradodd.com/connections/ may help you to see the truth of that.
Here's Jenny Cyphers writing about the world of learning that dance opened up
for her: http://sandradodd.com/jennycyphers/dance. Here's Elvis as a tour guide
to the world: http://sandradodd.com/dot/elvis. The melange of a life leading to
a point, kind of, instead of a single idea to pivot out
from: http://sandradodd.com/dot/hypotenuse.
Shakespeare: http://sandradodd.com/strew/shakespeare. Ah, and this, the
centerpiece: http://sandradodd.com/connections/design, a study by many voices in
how connected the world is if you just start from one point and pivot out.
Learning is vast. And the resources available now are absolutely amazing and so
often just at your fingertips. I've been learning the ukulele and while I'm not
brilliant at it I'm moving toward a kind of competence. I've had no tuition
other than exploring the internet and watching the way people strum in videos
and finding fantastically helpful sites. And the only thing that's kept me going
is my own engagement. It's without a goal, just amusement. But because of it I
have a greater understanding of musical timing and chord families and tuning and
structure and a better ear. David's wearying a bit of the song Ukulele Lady so I
try and only play that one when he's at work or asleep or in another room. But
otherwise it's a fairly unlimited pursuit.
You asked if there are degrees of needing to deschool and I think you may need
the most. If it's a month for every year in school, you've probably banked the
greatest indoctrination into the belief that school is a valuable means to an
end. And remember, every single time you look to school methods for the answers
you have to start again. Stay with the idea of a vacation. Keep looking for
things that each of your children may enjoy without expecting them too and offer
them without strings. For those with interests in Pokemon get some games, the
board games are fun, get books, or costumes, or cards, or videos, or explore
some of the Ghibli studios stuff and see if your kids like Howl's Moving Castle
or the fantastic Totoro or Kiki's Delivery Service. Find pleasure in the day
instead of learning opportunities. Architecture is everywhere, archery, with
enough space, can be a cool backyard activity. You could get nerf guns and set
up pokemon figures and shoot them down. We used to have the best B'damen battles
with lots of figures and marbles flying at them on the building block forts. I
found this via Christine
Yablonski: http://store.sportswordstore.com/fiflfoar.html that could be a nice
means to target practice.
The fact that Daniel is embracing such a schoolish approach suggests that he
still needs a lot of deschooling. Not that you need to frown on his academic
pursuits, but he may see them as the only means to becoming an educated adult.
So breathe and relax and find fun things to do and watch and listen to and hang
out near and mix it up without any pressure.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
Katrine Clip <katrine@...> wrote:
http://pokemondb.net/pokedex
Don't wait for him to ask for things! Offer things you've seen him interested in. If you're at a bookstore, take the time to find the pokemon books - ask a salesperson. If they don't have any, stop at another bookstore, maybe. See offering as a kind of pampering, though - not as a way to push an agenda of "its good to do xyz" on him. If he doesn't want a book, how about a milkshake?
Your son has dived into a passion - that's great! Likely he still has some school baggage to deschool from, but its possible that will happen gradually, painlessly. Or, he could panic in a couple years, wondering if he should try high school or take some classes for his own good - questions like that can lurk in the back of people's minds and you really won't know until later.
---Meredith
>If they had had an "all aboutIf you haven't found them, yet, look at graphic novels - there are a bunch of pokemon books. Also if y'all don't have them yet, look for the strategy guides for the various games. Does he have a pokedex? There are some online...Mo likes this one:
> Pokemon characters" he would have asked for it!
http://pokemondb.net/pokedex
Don't wait for him to ask for things! Offer things you've seen him interested in. If you're at a bookstore, take the time to find the pokemon books - ask a salesperson. If they don't have any, stop at another bookstore, maybe. See offering as a kind of pampering, though - not as a way to push an agenda of "its good to do xyz" on him. If he doesn't want a book, how about a milkshake?
> My question about deschooling is then: does everybody needEvery person is different, and the deschooling "formula" is just a guideline so that parents don't panic eight weeks or three months in and say "OMG its Not Working" - well, "it" hasn't started yet. Transitioning away from school is different for everyone, though - think about different people's experiences when they first go to college, or first get a job, or first get married. There are generalities, but some people are more different than others.
> deschooling? It doesn't seem to me that my oldest son is deschooling,
> he seems to have gone straight to unschooling.
Your son has dived into a passion - that's great! Likely he still has some school baggage to deschool from, but its possible that will happen gradually, painlessly. Or, he could panic in a couple years, wondering if he should try high school or take some classes for his own good - questions like that can lurk in the back of people's minds and you really won't know until later.
>he's never bored (a word his brothers use a lot).If they're saying they're bored then they need more engagement. They may not know how to discover what interests them at this point, so offer fun things, goofy things, light things.... If you're in the northern hemisphere, see if they want to do silly fall things like go to corn mazes or haunted houses. At 9, they may feel like they need some permission to still like little kid stuff - 9yos do, but school teaches them to be cynical about all that, so they may need support being goofy and childish sometimes.
---Meredith
wtexans
===Drats the link to the PokeMon isn't working, do you have another link for it?===
This may be what Schuyler was referring to: http://sandradodd.com/schuyler/tv.
Glenda
This may be what Schuyler was referring to: http://sandradodd.com/schuyler/tv.
Glenda
Robin Bentley
The link works for me. But you can try this alternate route:
Go to http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
Scroll down to the Google site search and type in Pokemon. The fourth
link down is the article Schuyler's referring to. You'll find many
more links, too.
Robin B.
Go to http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
Scroll down to the Google site search and type in Pokemon. The fourth
link down is the article Schuyler's referring to. You'll find many
more links, too.
Robin B.
Schuyler
http://sandradodd.com/game/pokemon.html works fine for me. Maybe it came through
with the period attached in your e-mail box.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 17 October, 2010 20:50:06
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Different needs for deschooling?
The link works for me. But you can try this alternate route:
Go to http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
Scroll down to the Google site search and type in Pokemon. The fourth
link down is the article Schuyler's referring to. You'll find many
more links, too.
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with the period attached in your e-mail box.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 17 October, 2010 20:50:06
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Different needs for deschooling?
The link works for me. But you can try this alternate route:
Go to http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
Scroll down to the Google site search and type in Pokemon. The fourth
link down is the article Schuyler's referring to. You'll find many
more links, too.
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***He tells me every day
about all the classes he wants to take to learn everything he's
interested in. And that next year, he wants to go to school. Hm. I'm
telling him that I can teach him knitting, I've ordered an Italian
course for both of us to learn together, and there are lots of classes
offered in our homeschool community so he can learn the other things
he wants to.***
It's really exciting to have a child excited about learning! Deschooling takes
time. He's still seeing learning as something external that is done TO him, as
opposed to learning that just is. Compare that to your other two children for a
second....
***He reads about Pokemon characters on
pokemon.com and wants to watch every episode of Pokemon there and on
YouTube (with his twin brother). But he hasn't had a "break through"
yet, he's still negative, bored, uninterested in things (except
Pokemon). ***
AND
***It doesn't seem to me that my oldest son is deschooling,
he seems to have gone straight to unschooling. He's doing great, he's
following his interests, his relationship with his brothers has never
been better (they used to fight MUCH more when he was in school). When
he was in school last year, he told me he was worried about his
brothers' future because he saw they weren't doing school work and
apparently weren't learning anything, how would they ever get into
college... And he certainly did not want to homeschool and become like
them. He changed his mind later though, when we told him about our
travel plans.***
It seems that Alexander is very very typical of what happens in deschooling.
He's recovering from school damage, isn't living in school thought and is
exploring something he loves.
The oldest, while his experience in school was a good one, and perhaps he
intends to go back, doesn't seem to be deschooling at all. He's still got
school in the back of his mind. After a year of playing and traveling, he might
be in a whole different place than he is right now.
One of the best things about unschooling is how relationships change within a
family! Kids get along better, it's really wonderful!
Schuyler beat me to it, but what she said about about you needing to do some
deschooling is really important! If ALL learning is viewed as learning then
natural learning can unfold. If some learning is better than other learning, it
stops that from happening. Parents can get in the way of that process if they
are looking for learning that looks like school. If everything is divided up in
a person's mind, where one thing is educational and one way of learning it is
better than another, it will stunt seeing natural learning happening.
Pokemon is one of those things that can lead to everything else in the whole
wide world! It amazes me all the time just how much Pokemon has impacted our
lives in so many positive ways. There is so much learning in Pokemon, just the
game itself has strategy, math, memorization, art, story, and just so much to
it. The way it works though, is that Pokemon will lead a person's thought to
another thing, and another experience can be related to Pokemon. A kid can
watch a youtube video and catch a reference to Pokemon, get it, and connect it
to something else. All those little connections happen all day long, every day.
The more a kid can experience that and grow and change and learn and add to it,
the more they will know and relate to the world. I can see how Pokemon is at
the base of EVERYthing that my older daughter knows and loves, from loving
animals, to being a vegetarian, to anime, to horror movies, to makeup, to
costuming, to cutting hair, to ALL of it. It left a trail of ideas that I can
follow all the way back to when she was 4 and first started watching Pokemon.
Pokemon is just one thing a kid could have a passion for, it could happen with
anything. A while back, we did this brainstorming for fashion... here
The idea is also related to this
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
about all the classes he wants to take to learn everything he's
interested in. And that next year, he wants to go to school. Hm. I'm
telling him that I can teach him knitting, I've ordered an Italian
course for both of us to learn together, and there are lots of classes
offered in our homeschool community so he can learn the other things
he wants to.***
It's really exciting to have a child excited about learning! Deschooling takes
time. He's still seeing learning as something external that is done TO him, as
opposed to learning that just is. Compare that to your other two children for a
second....
***He reads about Pokemon characters on
pokemon.com and wants to watch every episode of Pokemon there and on
YouTube (with his twin brother). But he hasn't had a "break through"
yet, he's still negative, bored, uninterested in things (except
Pokemon). ***
AND
***It doesn't seem to me that my oldest son is deschooling,
he seems to have gone straight to unschooling. He's doing great, he's
following his interests, his relationship with his brothers has never
been better (they used to fight MUCH more when he was in school). When
he was in school last year, he told me he was worried about his
brothers' future because he saw they weren't doing school work and
apparently weren't learning anything, how would they ever get into
college... And he certainly did not want to homeschool and become like
them. He changed his mind later though, when we told him about our
travel plans.***
It seems that Alexander is very very typical of what happens in deschooling.
He's recovering from school damage, isn't living in school thought and is
exploring something he loves.
The oldest, while his experience in school was a good one, and perhaps he
intends to go back, doesn't seem to be deschooling at all. He's still got
school in the back of his mind. After a year of playing and traveling, he might
be in a whole different place than he is right now.
One of the best things about unschooling is how relationships change within a
family! Kids get along better, it's really wonderful!
Schuyler beat me to it, but what she said about about you needing to do some
deschooling is really important! If ALL learning is viewed as learning then
natural learning can unfold. If some learning is better than other learning, it
stops that from happening. Parents can get in the way of that process if they
are looking for learning that looks like school. If everything is divided up in
a person's mind, where one thing is educational and one way of learning it is
better than another, it will stunt seeing natural learning happening.
Pokemon is one of those things that can lead to everything else in the whole
wide world! It amazes me all the time just how much Pokemon has impacted our
lives in so many positive ways. There is so much learning in Pokemon, just the
game itself has strategy, math, memorization, art, story, and just so much to
it. The way it works though, is that Pokemon will lead a person's thought to
another thing, and another experience can be related to Pokemon. A kid can
watch a youtube video and catch a reference to Pokemon, get it, and connect it
to something else. All those little connections happen all day long, every day.
The more a kid can experience that and grow and change and learn and add to it,
the more they will know and relate to the world. I can see how Pokemon is at
the base of EVERYthing that my older daughter knows and loves, from loving
animals, to being a vegetarian, to anime, to horror movies, to makeup, to
costuming, to cutting hair, to ALL of it. It left a trail of ideas that I can
follow all the way back to when she was 4 and first started watching Pokemon.
Pokemon is just one thing a kid could have a passion for, it could happen with
anything. A while back, we did this brainstorming for fashion... here
The idea is also related to this
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***Pokemon is just one thing a kid could have a passion for, it could happen
with
anything. A while back, we did this brainstorming for fashion... here
The idea is also related to this***
Sorry about that! Here's the links I was looking for. One of which Schuyler
put up. The design one is fun though, and I love thinking in those terms
because it really helps to see how natural learning can progress from one thing
to the next and to the next and onward and forward!
http://sandradodd.com/connections/design
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with
anything. A while back, we did this brainstorming for fashion... here
The idea is also related to this***
Sorry about that! Here's the links I was looking for. One of which Schuyler
put up. The design one is fun though, and I love thinking in those terms
because it really helps to see how natural learning can progress from one thing
to the next and to the next and onward and forward!
http://sandradodd.com/connections/design
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
I agree with all of what Schuyler and Jenny said. I'll just add my
thoughts.
expecting Alexander to be identical in every way to Daniel, in spite
of the differences you mention?
Alexander doesn't have to have a "breakthrough" the way Daniel does.
Couldn't being totally into a something like Pokemon be a
breakthrough for him?
experience will be different! Was he the one who was labeled ADHD and
given an IEP in school?
twin? Maybe he wants you to see him as a person separate from his
brother, learning in his own way.
what he loves.
You might want to get familiar with gaming stores which carry Pokedex
and gaming strategy guides. Here's a couple of my daughter's favorite
online sites: http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml and http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Main_Page
And what about Nintendo DS games or Wii games? Awesome stuff!
reading into "reading for joy" and "reading for information." That's
too much pressure to put on anyone, especially a kid who seems to be
feeling pressure to do what his brother is doing.
it's the kids who do the best in school who suffer. They are living up
to people's expectations all the time, so for them to fail is an awful
thing.
the one who's no trouble, the one who always measures up.
Be careful not to compare your twins to him. It's already apparent
that there has been this dynamic amongst all the boys.
you deschool.
I'm being flippant, but really, part of deschooling is opening up to
possibilities. Those possibilities may or may not include college.
However, taking it one moment at at time is more important right now.
College is a long way off, in the scheme of things.
Sandra's words apply here: "Read a little, try a little, wait a while,
watch." Especially for the boys. They really need as much time as they
need and it will be different for each one of them.
For you, I'd suggest a lot more reading http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
(including all the links), plus Sandra's unschooling videos (some
YouTube and other links here: http://unschoolingmovie.info/ ) to speed
up your deschooling. Sometimes re-reading and re-watching can make it
all sink in further.
Robin B.
thoughts.
> His twin brother Alexander is quite different (though they areEven though they are twins, your boys are individuals. Are you
> identical;-)
> But he hasn't had a "break through"
> yet, he's still negative, bored, uninterested in things (except
> Pokemon).
expecting Alexander to be identical in every way to Daniel, in spite
of the differences you mention?
Alexander doesn't have to have a "breakthrough" the way Daniel does.
Couldn't being totally into a something like Pokemon be a
breakthrough for him?
> I need to spend a lot more time with him, and be veryThen it's not too far a leap to understand that his deschooling
> patient and loving because he's so sensitive.
experience will be different! Was he the one who was labeled ADHD and
given an IEP in school?
>I guess it depends on how much weight *you* put on what Daniel is doing.
> I wonder if Alexander is feeling somehow in his twin brother's shadow?
> Is he jealous? When Daniel has a drawing phase, he's not doing it.
> NowDoes Alexander feel that you want him to do the same things as his
> that Daniel suddenly wants to read, he definitely doesn't want to even
> when I offered to buy him a book too. He didn't see any that he liked
> there when I got the book for Daniel.
twin? Maybe he wants you to see him as a person separate from his
brother, learning in his own way.
> If they had had an "all aboutNot only *useful* but *important* to him. He'll see that you value
> Pokemon characters" he would have asked for it! I'm looking at Amazon
> now to see if I can find that, it would be very useful for him.
what he loves.
You might want to get familiar with gaming stores which carry Pokedex
and gaming strategy guides. Here's a couple of my daughter's favorite
online sites: http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml and http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Main_Page
And what about Nintendo DS games or Wii games? Awesome stuff!
> HeBut, but, but...reading for information is valuable! Don't separate
> still hasn't discovered the "joy of reading" but he reads for
> information.
reading into "reading for joy" and "reading for information." That's
too much pressure to put on anyone, especially a kid who seems to be
feeling pressure to do what his brother is doing.
>That doesn't mean he wasn't adversely affected by school. Sometimes
> And then, our 11 year old who's most recently out of school, doesn't
> seem to need deschooling like his brothers. Thomas' experience in
> school has been very different too, he never struggled, he did well
> academically and was well liked by his teachers because he learned
> fast and wasn't difficult to deal with.
it's the kids who do the best in school who suffer. They are living up
to people's expectations all the time, so for them to fail is an awful
thing.
> WhenUh, oh. This is school damage, right here.
> he was in school last year, he told me he was worried about his
> brothers' future because he saw they weren't doing school work and
> apparently weren't learning anything, how would they ever get into
> college...And he certainly did not want to homeschool and become like
> them.
> He changed his mind later though, when we told him about ourBut he's the star, isn't he? The one who did wonderfully in school,
> travel plans. I actually think he would have started middle school
> with his friends if we hadn't planned to do a couple of long trips in
> the middle of the school year! And now that he IS home with us, he's
> enjoying it so much, he's never bored (a word his brothers use a lot).
the one who's no trouble, the one who always measures up.
Be careful not to compare your twins to him. It's already apparent
that there has been this dynamic amongst all the boys.
>I think you're right.
>
> As for my husband and I, we still have a lot of deschooling to do.
> But I'm still a littleBy whose standards? Shine how? These are important questions to ask as
> afraid in the back of my mind, I hope the boys will shine, that they
> will "prove" to their father that this is indeed the right path for
> us.
you deschool.
> He values academic success, he wants them to get a collegeThen *he* should go!
> education, we can skip the entire school now but college is essential
> for him!
I'm being flippant, but really, part of deschooling is opening up to
possibilities. Those possibilities may or may not include college.
However, taking it one moment at at time is more important right now.
College is a long way off, in the scheme of things.
Sandra's words apply here: "Read a little, try a little, wait a while,
watch." Especially for the boys. They really need as much time as they
need and it will be different for each one of them.
For you, I'd suggest a lot more reading http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
(including all the links), plus Sandra's unschooling videos (some
YouTube and other links here: http://unschoolingmovie.info/ ) to speed
up your deschooling. Sometimes re-reading and re-watching can make it
all sink in further.
Robin B.
t_guyonvarch
> That doesn't mean he wasn't adversely affected by school. SometimesHow true! I have almost always been the best at school, and once or twice when I had low mark, I was sooo beaten.
> it's the kids who do the best in school who suffer. They are living up
> to people's expectations all the time, so for them to fail is an awful
> thing.
Now I can easily wholeheartedly embrace unschooling idea (though still struggling to put it into practice). On the contrary, my husband who said always did the minimum possible at school, had to repeat a class in two occasions, is finding it harder to see the value of unschooling.
Sandra Dodd
-=- Sometimes parents think they've deschooled only
to have some schoolish thought rear it's ugly little head months down
the road. -=-
It's inevitable that there will be relapses as the parent's own
childhood and then teen years flash subconsciously before her eyes. :-)
I don't think one can fully deschool all in one swoop, though each
next-level cleansing becomes easier.
-=-All that fun learning is exciting for sure! Sit back and observe it
for now.
Add a little bit to it here and there.-=-
I know why that was written, and I agree with it having been written,
but I think there are unschooling parents who too great a "sit back"
approach. I've been an immersion learning type of person since I was
a kid. One book led to another, or led to drawings or questions or
encyclopedia visits. We had no way to request movies; it either was
in the theatre or on TV or it wasn't. But now that kids can go from
one DVD or online resource to another all in one day, those who prefer
that kind of frenzied immersion can indulge. And if a parent has
never once experienced that, the immersion could be a good unschooling
tool.
It's good for the parents not to take over and manage an interest, but
to participate in the frenzy (being careful not to commandeer it) can
be pretty illuminating. And parents should be willing to have their
own personal immersion frenzy without concern for whether their kids
have lost interest or not, because learning can't just be a thing for
kids, in a successful unschooling family.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to have some schoolish thought rear it's ugly little head months down
the road. -=-
It's inevitable that there will be relapses as the parent's own
childhood and then teen years flash subconsciously before her eyes. :-)
I don't think one can fully deschool all in one swoop, though each
next-level cleansing becomes easier.
-=-All that fun learning is exciting for sure! Sit back and observe it
for now.
Add a little bit to it here and there.-=-
I know why that was written, and I agree with it having been written,
but I think there are unschooling parents who too great a "sit back"
approach. I've been an immersion learning type of person since I was
a kid. One book led to another, or led to drawings or questions or
encyclopedia visits. We had no way to request movies; it either was
in the theatre or on TV or it wasn't. But now that kids can go from
one DVD or online resource to another all in one day, those who prefer
that kind of frenzied immersion can indulge. And if a parent has
never once experienced that, the immersion could be a good unschooling
tool.
It's good for the parents not to take over and manage an interest, but
to participate in the frenzy (being careful not to commandeer it) can
be pretty illuminating. And parents should be willing to have their
own personal immersion frenzy without concern for whether their kids
have lost interest or not, because learning can't just be a thing for
kids, in a successful unschooling family.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katrine Clip
I have appreciated reading all of your replies and advice. It's taken me
many days to read and think and try to formulate some answers (and new
questions!). I hope some of it will generate even more comments from you.
I'm here to learn. Thank you!
<<<From what you've written, your absolute joy at your son Daniel wanting to
with what I'm used to. I've always been a big reader, finding much pleasure
in stories. When I see him reading now and liking it so much, I'm happy
because I can hear and feel his pleasure in discovering this too. I'm happy
for him that he feels quite confident in reading now. He's been having a big
upswing in self confidence lately, he believes in himself now. Last year in
school he thought his memory was bad, that he was bad at math and writing
and everything. Now he's telling me he has a photographic memory, that his
brain is so fast.
<<<The fact that Daniel is embracing such a schoolish approach suggests
that he
still needs a lot of deschooling. >>>
And I thought he was through the deschooling... You're saying this because
reading is thought of as academic? Doesn't everybody want to learn to read?
It's all around us, it's a part of life... I don't think he's doing this now
to please his parents. To me, it looks like he's pleasing himself! And
finding out that he can do this on his own, it's empowering. Isn't it also a
down note of his new reading interest to call it a schoolish approach?
<<<Not that you need to frown on his academic
pursuits, but he may see them as the only means to becoming an educated
adult.
So breathe and relax and find fun things to do and watch and listen to and
hang
out near and mix it up without any pressure. >>>
An educated adult... his interest in architecture and learning Italian and
knitting have a lot to do with things we've been doing or seen lately. So to
me the some of the things we have been strewing have been interesting and
worth pursuing for a while for him! He's talking about the future "When I'm
a dad...", "When I grow up...". I don't think he's mature enough to think
about the future yet in terms of education. He's still a little boy playing
fantasy games!
I'm not pressuring the reading, but I do offer and I find books at the
library for them all. I probably use the internet more for finding
information about whatever they're into. That's also reading, for all of us!
OP:> Alexander doesn't seem to have a "breakthrough" the way Daniel does. <
<<<Couldn't being totally into a something like Pokemon be a
breakthrough for him?>>>
I don't mean to belittle Alexander's interests, I think Pokemon is really
cool. It has certainly been the deepest interest he's ever had. I have
rarely before seen him so focused and serious about anything. It's amazing
that he knows all these characters' names and evolution. It's just that he's
still so negative about a lot of other things. Alexander is much more
difficult to deal with, and doesn't have the drive that Daniel has.
Pokemon Kanto Guide National Pokedex: Official Strategy Guide". We just
discovered that it was volume 2 so now I have to find volume 1! Daniel got
the game Heartgold and Soulsilver and they both need those books to study
and understand the game.
If Simon has other recommendations, we'd love to hear them!
OP:> I need to spend a lot more time with him, and be very
experience will be different! Was he the one who was labeled ADHD and
given an IEP in school?>>>
No, Daniel had an IEP ( both were diagnosed ADHD a label I totally reject
now) and was apparently having a harder time than Alexander in school, also
because he had a bad/harsh teacher the second time around in 1st grade. By
trying to remember how Alexander was like a baby, I can see that he was the
one who cried most and needed most closeness. So it makes sense that he is
still like that!
<<<Deschooling takes time. He's still seeing learning as something external
that is done TO him, as
opposed to learning that just is. >>>
<<<It seems that Alexander is very very typical of what happens in
deschooling. He's recovering from school damage, isn't living in school
thought and is
exploring something he loves.>>>
Thanks, that also gave me some perspective on Alexander! "Isn't living in
school thought"... yes, that would portray him. He doesn't tolerate anything
schoolish. But I thought deschooling would also bring some peace with it? I
see a lot of opposition, negativity, from him. Whenever we suggest something
to do, he's usually against it. Even fun things, things that we know he
likes or will like. Is it him wanting to be more in control? To be able to
decide more on his own?
OP:> I wonder if Alexander is feeling somehow in his twin brother's shadow?
doing.>>>
Hmm, yes I have talked about Daniel's reading, about Daniel's
"accomplishments". Alexander may see that as too much praise for what
Daniel's doing, and then he doesn't want to compete with that, in fear of
not measuring up, not doing as well? On the other hand, when I talk about
Alexander's beautiful singing voice, that doesn't stop Daniel from singing
away slightly off tune ;-)
<<<Even though they are twins, your boys are individuals. Are you
expecting Alexander to be identical in every way to Daniel, in spite
of the differences you mention?>>>
This is a biggie for me, something I've been working on since they were
babies. No, I don't expect them to be the same. They just look very similar.
At the same time, there they are, exactly the same age, perfect for
comparisons... As it is also easy to compare them to big brother. I stopped
dressing them in matching or identical outfits, but I did colorcode them so
others would know who they were. I'd tell people that Alexander was wearing
greens and reds and Daniel blues and tan... Now, they wear whatever they
choose to and it's always different ;-)
<<< [Big brother Thomas] is the star, isn't he? The one who did wonderfully
in school,
the one who's no trouble, the one who always measures up.
Be careful not to compare your twins to him. It's already apparent
that there has been this dynamic amongst all the boys.
bad it was to compare herself to me, her older sister, and never feeling she
could measure up. The twins may feel the same about Thomas. I still often
fall into the trap and compare them...
<<<Learning isn't limited to
love it. I'm rereading the links you sent.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
many days to read and think and try to formulate some answers (and new
questions!). I hope some of it will generate even more comments from you.
I'm here to learn. Thank you!
<<<From what you've written, your absolute joy at your son Daniel wanting to
> explore the world in a fairly academic way and then the down note of yourRight now, Daniel seems to be doing more academic work and that resonates
> son
> Alexander not embracing academic learning, it sounds like you may need to
> deschool for a while longer as well.>>>
>
with what I'm used to. I've always been a big reader, finding much pleasure
in stories. When I see him reading now and liking it so much, I'm happy
because I can hear and feel his pleasure in discovering this too. I'm happy
for him that he feels quite confident in reading now. He's been having a big
upswing in self confidence lately, he believes in himself now. Last year in
school he thought his memory was bad, that he was bad at math and writing
and everything. Now he's telling me he has a photographic memory, that his
brain is so fast.
<<<The fact that Daniel is embracing such a schoolish approach suggests
that he
still needs a lot of deschooling. >>>
And I thought he was through the deschooling... You're saying this because
reading is thought of as academic? Doesn't everybody want to learn to read?
It's all around us, it's a part of life... I don't think he's doing this now
to please his parents. To me, it looks like he's pleasing himself! And
finding out that he can do this on his own, it's empowering. Isn't it also a
down note of his new reading interest to call it a schoolish approach?
<<<Not that you need to frown on his academic
pursuits, but he may see them as the only means to becoming an educated
adult.
So breathe and relax and find fun things to do and watch and listen to and
hang
out near and mix it up without any pressure. >>>
An educated adult... his interest in architecture and learning Italian and
knitting have a lot to do with things we've been doing or seen lately. So to
me the some of the things we have been strewing have been interesting and
worth pursuing for a while for him! He's talking about the future "When I'm
a dad...", "When I grow up...". I don't think he's mature enough to think
about the future yet in terms of education. He's still a little boy playing
fantasy games!
I'm not pressuring the reading, but I do offer and I find books at the
library for them all. I probably use the internet more for finding
information about whatever they're into. That's also reading, for all of us!
OP:> Alexander doesn't seem to have a "breakthrough" the way Daniel does. <
<<<Couldn't being totally into a something like Pokemon be a
breakthrough for him?>>>
I don't mean to belittle Alexander's interests, I think Pokemon is really
cool. It has certainly been the deepest interest he's ever had. I have
rarely before seen him so focused and serious about anything. It's amazing
that he knows all these characters' names and evolution. It's just that he's
still so negative about a lot of other things. Alexander is much more
difficult to deal with, and doesn't have the drive that Daniel has.
>We just bought a big book "Pokemon HeartGold & SoulSilver The Official
> <<<There are
> lots of cool guide books on Pokemon. [...] If Simon were awake
> I'd ask for a recommendation. >>>
>
Pokemon Kanto Guide National Pokedex: Official Strategy Guide". We just
discovered that it was volume 2 so now I have to find volume 1! Daniel got
the game Heartgold and Soulsilver and they both need those books to study
and understand the game.
If Simon has other recommendations, we'd love to hear them!
OP:> I need to spend a lot more time with him, and be very
> patient and loving because he's so sensitive.<<<Then it's not too far a leap to understand that his deschooling
experience will be different! Was he the one who was labeled ADHD and
given an IEP in school?>>>
No, Daniel had an IEP ( both were diagnosed ADHD a label I totally reject
now) and was apparently having a harder time than Alexander in school, also
because he had a bad/harsh teacher the second time around in 1st grade. By
trying to remember how Alexander was like a baby, I can see that he was the
one who cried most and needed most closeness. So it makes sense that he is
still like that!
<<<Deschooling takes time. He's still seeing learning as something external
that is done TO him, as
opposed to learning that just is. >>>
<<<It seems that Alexander is very very typical of what happens in
deschooling. He's recovering from school damage, isn't living in school
thought and is
exploring something he loves.>>>
Thanks, that also gave me some perspective on Alexander! "Isn't living in
school thought"... yes, that would portray him. He doesn't tolerate anything
schoolish. But I thought deschooling would also bring some peace with it? I
see a lot of opposition, negativity, from him. Whenever we suggest something
to do, he's usually against it. Even fun things, things that we know he
likes or will like. Is it him wanting to be more in control? To be able to
decide more on his own?
OP:> I wonder if Alexander is feeling somehow in his twin brother's shadow?
> Is he jealous? When Daniel has a drawing phase, he's not doing it.<<<I guess it depends on how much weight *you* put on what Daniel is
doing.>>>
Hmm, yes I have talked about Daniel's reading, about Daniel's
"accomplishments". Alexander may see that as too much praise for what
Daniel's doing, and then he doesn't want to compete with that, in fear of
not measuring up, not doing as well? On the other hand, when I talk about
Alexander's beautiful singing voice, that doesn't stop Daniel from singing
away slightly off tune ;-)
<<<Even though they are twins, your boys are individuals. Are you
expecting Alexander to be identical in every way to Daniel, in spite
of the differences you mention?>>>
This is a biggie for me, something I've been working on since they were
babies. No, I don't expect them to be the same. They just look very similar.
At the same time, there they are, exactly the same age, perfect for
comparisons... As it is also easy to compare them to big brother. I stopped
dressing them in matching or identical outfits, but I did colorcode them so
others would know who they were. I'd tell people that Alexander was wearing
greens and reds and Daniel blues and tan... Now, they wear whatever they
choose to and it's always different ;-)
<<< [Big brother Thomas] is the star, isn't he? The one who did wonderfully
in school,
the one who's no trouble, the one who always measures up.
Be careful not to compare your twins to him. It's already apparent
that there has been this dynamic amongst all the boys.
>Yes, I am aware of the danger of comparison, my sister keeps telling me how
bad it was to compare herself to me, her older sister, and never feeling she
could measure up. The twins may feel the same about Thomas. I still often
fall into the trap and compare them...
<<<Learning isn't limited to
> reading and writing and studying a foreign language and spelling. LearningThanks! Yes, that's what we're trying to do/live. Explore and discover, I
> is
> about exploring and discovering the world.>>>
>
love it. I'm rereading the links you sent.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wtexans
===He's talking about the future "When I'm a dad...", "When I grow up...". I don't think he's mature enough to think about the future yet in terms of education. He's still a little boy playing fantasy games!===
The way that last sentence is phrased is demeaning, as if the thoughts he's having about his future are not worth taking seriously *because* he's a kid.
Whenever your son expresses something as "when I grow up...", which is a very traditional, schooly way of thinking (think about how often schoolkids are told, "when you grow up and are out in the real world..."), you can help feed that interest *now* and let him know that whatever that interest may be, it doesn't have to be put on hold until some future point in time.
It's empowering to kids for their parents to help dreams be worked towards, and to not be told "oh, you have to be a grown up before you can do that". They can relish being the age they are right at this very moment!
Also, pay particular attention to what he's saying he'll do when he's a dad. That's a good way to get an idea of the aspects of your parenting that he likes and the aspects that he would do differently, and that can help you fine-tune areas in which he feels his needs aren't quite being met.
Glenda
The way that last sentence is phrased is demeaning, as if the thoughts he's having about his future are not worth taking seriously *because* he's a kid.
Whenever your son expresses something as "when I grow up...", which is a very traditional, schooly way of thinking (think about how often schoolkids are told, "when you grow up and are out in the real world..."), you can help feed that interest *now* and let him know that whatever that interest may be, it doesn't have to be put on hold until some future point in time.
It's empowering to kids for their parents to help dreams be worked towards, and to not be told "oh, you have to be a grown up before you can do that". They can relish being the age they are right at this very moment!
Also, pay particular attention to what he's saying he'll do when he's a dad. That's a good way to get an idea of the aspects of your parenting that he likes and the aspects that he would do differently, and that can help you fine-tune areas in which he feels his needs aren't quite being met.
Glenda
Sandra Dodd
-=-Isn't it also a down note of his new reading interest to call it a
schoolish approach?-=-
It depends whether it's a schoolish approach or not. :-)
Just be aware that it *could* be an indication that he still thinks
reading is the only cool thing.
And that your own responses to it are likely an indication that YOU
still value reading above other activities or inputs.
http://sandradodd.com/bookworship
http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
schoolish approach?-=-
It depends whether it's a schoolish approach or not. :-)
Just be aware that it *could* be an indication that he still thinks
reading is the only cool thing.
And that your own responses to it are likely an indication that YOU
still value reading above other activities or inputs.
http://sandradodd.com/bookworship
http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I thought deschooling would also bring some peace with it?-=-
It won't until you stop looking for it. As long as you pull the plant
up by the roots to see how it's doing, the plan isn't going to be able
to grow in peace.
-=- I
see a lot of opposition, negativity, from him. Whenever we suggest
something
to do, he's usually against it. Even fun things, things that we know he
likes or will like. -=-
Then stop making suggestions. DESCHOOL. Let it go. Let it be.
Don't pull it up by the roots. Let him be negative. Take it as clear
communication.
-=-Is it him wanting to be more in control? To be able to decide more
on his own?-=-
Yes, and so is all of deschooling, and then all of unschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It won't until you stop looking for it. As long as you pull the plant
up by the roots to see how it's doing, the plan isn't going to be able
to grow in peace.
-=- I
see a lot of opposition, negativity, from him. Whenever we suggest
something
to do, he's usually against it. Even fun things, things that we know he
likes or will like. -=-
Then stop making suggestions. DESCHOOL. Let it go. Let it be.
Don't pull it up by the roots. Let him be negative. Take it as clear
communication.
-=-Is it him wanting to be more in control? To be able to decide more
on his own?-=-
Yes, and so is all of deschooling, and then all of unschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wtexans
===I'm not pressuring the reading, but I do offer and I find books at the library for them all. I probably use the internet more for finding information about whatever they're into. That's also reading, for all of us!===
If you're not already, be sure to include a variety of things other than reading materials.
Using Pokemon as an example because it was the most popular thing in our household for a number of years, I found on eBay and elsewhere on the internet Pokemon-themed: cards (for the Pokemon card game), puzzles, Monopoly, action figures, gym badges, plushes, bedding/curtains, fabric, clocks, and no telling what else that I'm not thinking of at the moment.
The game guides that go along with the video games are cool, but walk-throughs or let's plays on YouTube are pretty cool, too.
Several years ago when I was futzing around with some Shrinky Dink paper, making some earrings for a craft swap, my son asked if I'd make him a necklace of Pokemons. So he chose which ones he liked most, I traced and colored them in, then shrank them and turned them into a necklace for him.
We've made Pokemons using perler beads; you can find free patterns on the Sprite Stitch forums (http://www.spritestitch.com/forum/). You can put magnetic tape on the back of the completed projects and stick them on the fridge or any metal your kids may have in their room, or screw a piece of metal onto a section of their wall and let them stick them up there.
My son and I used to set up elaborate areas for his Pokemon action figures -- we'd have gym battles with them and he'd develop stories that we played out. We did LOTS of imaginative play.
One of the ways my son learned how to budget money was to surf eBay and find Pokemons he wanted. He'd have a certain amount of allowance or gift money available to spend, and he'd find listings for the Pokemon he wanted and would figure out which he could afford to bid on and which he'd have to wait for.
He learned how to read a timeline after receiving a Pokemon timeline in a magazine.
There are so many other ways to feed an interest in Pokemon besides books and dvds. We still have the books and dvds -- there's no shortage of love for those in our household -- but there's so much more out there to be found. Find some of those additional ways to feed that interest!
Glenda
If you're not already, be sure to include a variety of things other than reading materials.
Using Pokemon as an example because it was the most popular thing in our household for a number of years, I found on eBay and elsewhere on the internet Pokemon-themed: cards (for the Pokemon card game), puzzles, Monopoly, action figures, gym badges, plushes, bedding/curtains, fabric, clocks, and no telling what else that I'm not thinking of at the moment.
The game guides that go along with the video games are cool, but walk-throughs or let's plays on YouTube are pretty cool, too.
Several years ago when I was futzing around with some Shrinky Dink paper, making some earrings for a craft swap, my son asked if I'd make him a necklace of Pokemons. So he chose which ones he liked most, I traced and colored them in, then shrank them and turned them into a necklace for him.
We've made Pokemons using perler beads; you can find free patterns on the Sprite Stitch forums (http://www.spritestitch.com/forum/). You can put magnetic tape on the back of the completed projects and stick them on the fridge or any metal your kids may have in their room, or screw a piece of metal onto a section of their wall and let them stick them up there.
My son and I used to set up elaborate areas for his Pokemon action figures -- we'd have gym battles with them and he'd develop stories that we played out. We did LOTS of imaginative play.
One of the ways my son learned how to budget money was to surf eBay and find Pokemons he wanted. He'd have a certain amount of allowance or gift money available to spend, and he'd find listings for the Pokemon he wanted and would figure out which he could afford to bid on and which he'd have to wait for.
He learned how to read a timeline after receiving a Pokemon timeline in a magazine.
There are so many other ways to feed an interest in Pokemon besides books and dvds. We still have the books and dvds -- there's no shortage of love for those in our household -- but there's so much more out there to be found. Find some of those additional ways to feed that interest!
Glenda
wtexans
===Alexander is much more difficult to deal with, and doesn't have the drive that Daniel has.=== AND ===On the other hand, when I talk about Alexander's beautiful singing voice, that doesn't stop Daniel from singing away slightly off tune===
I know you said that you're working on not comparing, but those two sentences jumped out at me. When you think in terms of "more than" or "less than", that's comparing.
Maybe Alexander *does* have as much drive as Daniel, but he doesn't show it in the same way as Daniel. Perhaps nothing has inspired him to use his full amount of drive thus far in his life.
Some people are driven by jumping through other people's hoops; some people are driven by avoiding those hoops; some people are driven to follow the beat of their own drum.
In the second sentence I quoted above, Alexander's getting a backhanded compliment -- he sings beautifully. But, Daniel, whose voice isn't quite as lovely as Alexander's, isn't daunted by that because he's more . . . what? . . . self-assured than Alexander . . . meaning Alexander is "less than" Daniel yet again.
It may feel like I'm picking on you, but what I'm trying to do is tease out wording that you're using here, and perhaps at home, but definitely in your own thoughts, that deems one child as having more positive (to you) personality traits. When you have those thoughts, or when you write them here, think about ways you can turn those thoughts around so each child is being viewed as who they are rather than as who they are in comparison to one of their siblings.
Glenda
I know you said that you're working on not comparing, but those two sentences jumped out at me. When you think in terms of "more than" or "less than", that's comparing.
Maybe Alexander *does* have as much drive as Daniel, but he doesn't show it in the same way as Daniel. Perhaps nothing has inspired him to use his full amount of drive thus far in his life.
Some people are driven by jumping through other people's hoops; some people are driven by avoiding those hoops; some people are driven to follow the beat of their own drum.
In the second sentence I quoted above, Alexander's getting a backhanded compliment -- he sings beautifully. But, Daniel, whose voice isn't quite as lovely as Alexander's, isn't daunted by that because he's more . . . what? . . . self-assured than Alexander . . . meaning Alexander is "less than" Daniel yet again.
It may feel like I'm picking on you, but what I'm trying to do is tease out wording that you're using here, and perhaps at home, but definitely in your own thoughts, that deems one child as having more positive (to you) personality traits. When you have those thoughts, or when you write them here, think about ways you can turn those thoughts around so each child is being viewed as who they are rather than as who they are in comparison to one of their siblings.
Glenda
wtexans
===I see a lot of opposition, negativity, from him. Whenever we suggest something to do, he's usually against it. Even fun things, things that we know he likes or will like.===
I'm 45 years old and up until 5 or 6 years ago, my default answer to suggested things-to-do was "no" or "not right now". Nowadays I'm more apt to think a bit about a suggested idea before giving my answer, but that doesn't mean "no" isn't the answer that immediately pops into my head! In fact, my immediate and extended family all know the best way to get a "yes" answer out of me is to suggest something by email or text (so I don't feel pressured to answer right then), or to preface their idea with, "think about this and we can talk more later" or "don't give me an answer right this second, but think about this idea".
That tends to be the way I handle things when I'm suggesting something to my son, too.
We're both homebodies. We *love* being at home! We also enjoy doing things away from home, but, generally, we're not spur-of-the-moment people. We'll happily meet up with friends here or there, but "happily" happens a lot easier if plans have been made the night before or at least several hours before! Perhaps your son is the same way.
I keep a list hanging on the wall of my home office, and on that list are ideas of local fun things to do away from home. If we find ourselves feeling restless or at loose ends and our usual outings don't sound interesting, that's when that list comes in handy. Maybe your son would be receptive if you approached him on his own turf and asked if he'd brainstorm some ideas for a similar list for your household. Maybe he won't be receptive to that right now; if not, drop it for several months then ask again.
Give him plenty of space. That doesn't mean to ignore him, rather I mean give him space to just be. When he's doing something, pop into his space to say "hi" every so often. Instead of saying, "whatcha doing?", which could be seem intrusive, you could say, "I just wanted to say 'hi' and see your face!". Don't expect more from him than he's willing to give and/or able to give right now. Give him time to gain trust in things changing and being different in your household.
Glenda
I'm 45 years old and up until 5 or 6 years ago, my default answer to suggested things-to-do was "no" or "not right now". Nowadays I'm more apt to think a bit about a suggested idea before giving my answer, but that doesn't mean "no" isn't the answer that immediately pops into my head! In fact, my immediate and extended family all know the best way to get a "yes" answer out of me is to suggest something by email or text (so I don't feel pressured to answer right then), or to preface their idea with, "think about this and we can talk more later" or "don't give me an answer right this second, but think about this idea".
That tends to be the way I handle things when I'm suggesting something to my son, too.
We're both homebodies. We *love* being at home! We also enjoy doing things away from home, but, generally, we're not spur-of-the-moment people. We'll happily meet up with friends here or there, but "happily" happens a lot easier if plans have been made the night before or at least several hours before! Perhaps your son is the same way.
I keep a list hanging on the wall of my home office, and on that list are ideas of local fun things to do away from home. If we find ourselves feeling restless or at loose ends and our usual outings don't sound interesting, that's when that list comes in handy. Maybe your son would be receptive if you approached him on his own turf and asked if he'd brainstorm some ideas for a similar list for your household. Maybe he won't be receptive to that right now; if not, drop it for several months then ask again.
Give him plenty of space. That doesn't mean to ignore him, rather I mean give him space to just be. When he's doing something, pop into his space to say "hi" every so often. Instead of saying, "whatcha doing?", which could be seem intrusive, you could say, "I just wanted to say 'hi' and see your face!". Don't expect more from him than he's willing to give and/or able to give right now. Give him time to gain trust in things changing and being different in your household.
Glenda
k
>>>I don't mean to belittle Alexander's interests, I think Pokemon is reallycool. It has certainly been the deepest interest he's ever had. I have
rarely before seen him so focused and serious about anything. It's amazing
that he knows all these characters' names and evolution. It's just that he's
still so negative about a lot of other things. Alexander is much more
difficult to deal with, and doesn't have the drive that Daniel has.<<<
"don't mean to"
"still so negative"
"much more difficult to deal with"
For unschooling to work well and happily, and for unschooling to work:
Look for the value in the child's interest(s), whether that's one or
more interests.
See your child's communication as accurate expressions and thus avoid
thinking of such things to "still" be or to move on to meet adult
expectations, whether that's yours or other adults.
Focus on what influence your child has on his/her own life, definitely
NOT on what can be done to the child to change or direct them. Parents
do influence their children and seldom do they see that dynamic moving
in the other direction, from child to parent.
Here are some ways to rethink:
"Don't mean to" --- wasn't aware or now realize that...
"Still so negative" --- feels bad/sad/ about or doesn't like/want the
situation ... so what can parents change to make things or BE more
positive themselves?
"Much more difficult to deal with" --- Turn it around... In what ways
am I difficult for my child to deal with? What is the child's
perspective? Ask this by conversing with the child or by observation
over time, don't assume.
Much of this is about BEing, being present, and being here right now
with your children.
http://sandradodd.com/being/
All of the concepts at that link are good to read and think about and
implement. Especially "being with"
~Katherine
Jenny Cyphers
***An educated adult... his interest in architecture and learning Italian and
knitting have a lot to do with things we've been doing or seen lately. So to
me the some of the things we have been strewing have been interesting and
worth pursuing for a while for him! He's talking about the future "When I'm
a dad...", "When I grow up...". I don't think he's mature enough to think
about the future yet in terms of education. He's still a little boy playing
fantasy games!***
This is what I've seen happen in new to unschooling families... They get so
excited about all the learning, without totally deschooling. They get caught up
in all of it, over schedule classes and library trips and everything that looks
like academic learning, school learning. I've seen it happen so many times,
especially in families with young children where at least one child has been in
school.
It feels good to the parents to see their children do all these "educational"
endeavors. The kids go along with it because it's what they're used to doing,
but a bit more fun than what they experienced in school. The issues that I've
seen arise in this, is that the kids never fully deschool, the parents never
fully deschool, and eventually they all get burned out on the schedules and
keeping up with all the activities. If the family doesn't stop and slow down
the pace and emphasis on "educational" learning, the kids might end up back in
school. I've seen THAT more times than I can count.
Somewhere in all that, the parents need to set a better pace and really deschool
their own thoughts and actions. Sometimes parents think they've deschooled only
to have some schoolish thought rear it's ugly little head months down the road.
Most parents have been to school for over 12 yrs. That over a full year of
deschooling for the parents. The kids will get there faster, but not if the
parents don't stop themselves from interfering with the process.
All that fun learning is exciting for sure! Sit back and observe it for now.
Add a little bit to it here and there. Get to know your kids again. Let them
get to know themselves and each other in their new environment. Each day
doesn't have to be exciting, but let exciting moments happen. The kids will
find their pace and so will the parents.
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knitting have a lot to do with things we've been doing or seen lately. So to
me the some of the things we have been strewing have been interesting and
worth pursuing for a while for him! He's talking about the future "When I'm
a dad...", "When I grow up...". I don't think he's mature enough to think
about the future yet in terms of education. He's still a little boy playing
fantasy games!***
This is what I've seen happen in new to unschooling families... They get so
excited about all the learning, without totally deschooling. They get caught up
in all of it, over schedule classes and library trips and everything that looks
like academic learning, school learning. I've seen it happen so many times,
especially in families with young children where at least one child has been in
school.
It feels good to the parents to see their children do all these "educational"
endeavors. The kids go along with it because it's what they're used to doing,
but a bit more fun than what they experienced in school. The issues that I've
seen arise in this, is that the kids never fully deschool, the parents never
fully deschool, and eventually they all get burned out on the schedules and
keeping up with all the activities. If the family doesn't stop and slow down
the pace and emphasis on "educational" learning, the kids might end up back in
school. I've seen THAT more times than I can count.
Somewhere in all that, the parents need to set a better pace and really deschool
their own thoughts and actions. Sometimes parents think they've deschooled only
to have some schoolish thought rear it's ugly little head months down the road.
Most parents have been to school for over 12 yrs. That over a full year of
deschooling for the parents. The kids will get there faster, but not if the
parents don't stop themselves from interfering with the process.
All that fun learning is exciting for sure! Sit back and observe it for now.
Add a little bit to it here and there. Get to know your kids again. Let them
get to know themselves and each other in their new environment. Each day
doesn't have to be exciting, but let exciting moments happen. The kids will
find their pace and so will the parents.
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k
>>>And parents should be willing to have their own personal immersion frenzy without concern for whether their kids have lost interest or not, because learning can't just be a thing for kids, in a successful unschooling family.<<<Deschooling is something people talk about with many types of
homeschooling. It means something different in unschooling. It's more
in depth deschooling than most I think.
One thing that sets unschooling apart is that even though the parents
can give a great deal and seem to be sacrificial in getting
opportunities for and giving resources to their children, the emphasis
is on a child's desires to know or experience. Rather than on a preset
idea of what would be good for kids as opposed to what would be
interesting for its own sake. Assuming the child is interested, right?
A huge part of getting unschooling for me was to see children as
people with their own ideas and interests and plans. And if it doesn't
match what one might expect to see in the school child, it's because
what it matches is the human being that the child is. Not the school
child that the person could be.
~Katherine