Help with answering questions from family...
Karen James
Dear friends,
My son and I are visiting our family this week. We had our first brief
visit with my parents yesterday. When we were leaving, my dad asked me what
we were doing about our son's schooling while we were visiting. He asked if
we had to "catch up" when we returned home. I answered by saying that, for
us, this is another learning learning opportunity. We don't stop and do
subjects. We learn all the time from what is around us and what we find.
My dad was not happy with this answer and asked "but what about math and
reading." Ethan has been reading for a few years. He knows that. I
answered that he reads all the time. I said that math is all around us. He
looked unhappy about that--angry even. I said that Ethan enjoys
programming, and there is a lot of math in that. He said "okay then, well
he's gotta do something if he's going to be able to keep up." Thankfully
our son had gone outside to run around on the grass by that time, and didn't
have to hear that comment. My parents both looked at him and asked if he
could ever sit still. I answered he did so happily when he was interested
in what he was doing. He is only 7.
I know this is not going to be the end of my parent's questions, and I am
dreading the questions from my husband's parents. They are relentless.
There really isn't anyone here that understands or really supports what we
are doing. When my parents asked my son what he likes to do other than
computers, my son paused. "What do you mean?" he asked. He likes to do
pretty much everything he does. We had just been talking about how much he
enjoys the piano, how we canned some applesauce from apples we picked, how
he just got a bike with gears and was excited about riding it and using the
gears. It's kind of like they are not listening, and that must be confusing
for him.
Anything anyone can offer soon would be great. I am dreading this week. I
am so grateful we live where we live and have the freedom to do what we do.
Being a person who was raised to please everyone makes these transactions
even more difficult for me, but I do realize the importance of being strong
for my son. Thanks in advance.
Karen.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My son and I are visiting our family this week. We had our first brief
visit with my parents yesterday. When we were leaving, my dad asked me what
we were doing about our son's schooling while we were visiting. He asked if
we had to "catch up" when we returned home. I answered by saying that, for
us, this is another learning learning opportunity. We don't stop and do
subjects. We learn all the time from what is around us and what we find.
My dad was not happy with this answer and asked "but what about math and
reading." Ethan has been reading for a few years. He knows that. I
answered that he reads all the time. I said that math is all around us. He
looked unhappy about that--angry even. I said that Ethan enjoys
programming, and there is a lot of math in that. He said "okay then, well
he's gotta do something if he's going to be able to keep up." Thankfully
our son had gone outside to run around on the grass by that time, and didn't
have to hear that comment. My parents both looked at him and asked if he
could ever sit still. I answered he did so happily when he was interested
in what he was doing. He is only 7.
I know this is not going to be the end of my parent's questions, and I am
dreading the questions from my husband's parents. They are relentless.
There really isn't anyone here that understands or really supports what we
are doing. When my parents asked my son what he likes to do other than
computers, my son paused. "What do you mean?" he asked. He likes to do
pretty much everything he does. We had just been talking about how much he
enjoys the piano, how we canned some applesauce from apples we picked, how
he just got a bike with gears and was excited about riding it and using the
gears. It's kind of like they are not listening, and that must be confusing
for him.
Anything anyone can offer soon would be great. I am dreading this week. I
am so grateful we live where we live and have the freedom to do what we do.
Being a person who was raised to please everyone makes these transactions
even more difficult for me, but I do realize the importance of being strong
for my son. Thanks in advance.
Karen.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-. He asked if
we had to "catch up" when we returned home. I answered by saying that,
for
us, this is another learning learning opportunity. We don't stop and do
subjects. We learn all the time from what is around us and what we find.
My dad was not happy with this answer and asked "but what about math and
reading." Ethan has been reading for a few years. He knows that. I
answered that he reads all the time. I said that math is all around
us. He
looked unhappy about that--angry even.-=-
So next time say "No, he won't need to catch up."
Sometimes chit chat is just chit chat.
-=-Anything anyone can offer soon would be great. I am dreading this
week. I
am so grateful we live where we live and have the freedom to do what
we do.
Being a person who was raised to please everyone makes these
transactions
even more difficult for me, but I do realize the importance of being
strong
for my son.-=-
There are some thing here:
http://sandradodd.com/relatives
http://sandradodd.com/relatives/responding
Those have links to other things, too.
You could tell them that if they're willing to read about unschooling,
you would be willing to discuss it with them after they've read. Find
a book or a few articles, maybe, to "assign." If they start in about
it again, you could say "Did you read that book?" and if yes, discuss
the book. If no, say something like "Why not?" or "If you're not
willing to read about it, I don't want to argue about it with you."
Another good thing to say is "This is working well for now. If it
stops working, we'll put him in school."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
we had to "catch up" when we returned home. I answered by saying that,
for
us, this is another learning learning opportunity. We don't stop and do
subjects. We learn all the time from what is around us and what we find.
My dad was not happy with this answer and asked "but what about math and
reading." Ethan has been reading for a few years. He knows that. I
answered that he reads all the time. I said that math is all around
us. He
looked unhappy about that--angry even.-=-
So next time say "No, he won't need to catch up."
Sometimes chit chat is just chit chat.
-=-Anything anyone can offer soon would be great. I am dreading this
week. I
am so grateful we live where we live and have the freedom to do what
we do.
Being a person who was raised to please everyone makes these
transactions
even more difficult for me, but I do realize the importance of being
strong
for my son.-=-
There are some thing here:
http://sandradodd.com/relatives
http://sandradodd.com/relatives/responding
Those have links to other things, too.
You could tell them that if they're willing to read about unschooling,
you would be willing to discuss it with them after they've read. Find
a book or a few articles, maybe, to "assign." If they start in about
it again, you could say "Did you read that book?" and if yes, discuss
the book. If no, say something like "Why not?" or "If you're not
willing to read about it, I don't want to argue about it with you."
Another good thing to say is "This is working well for now. If it
stops working, we'll put him in school."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
Ask them whether they think that they did a good job raising you.
If they think they *did*, tell them that they need to back off and trust that you know what you're doing. *You* and your husband are your child's parents, not them. They had their chance; now it's your turn. If they are happy with how you turned out, they need to trust you to do what *you* think is best for your child.
If they think they did a *bad* job, then they DEFINITELY need to back waay off because you don't want to follow suit.
Either way, you win.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Karen James <semajrak@...>
Anything anyone can offer soon would be great. I am dreading this week. I
am so grateful we live where we live and have the freedom to do what we do.
Being a person who was raised to please everyone makes these transactions
even more difficult for me, but I do realize the importance of being strong
for my son. Thanks in advance.
Karen.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If they think they *did*, tell them that they need to back off and trust that you know what you're doing. *You* and your husband are your child's parents, not them. They had their chance; now it's your turn. If they are happy with how you turned out, they need to trust you to do what *you* think is best for your child.
If they think they did a *bad* job, then they DEFINITELY need to back waay off because you don't want to follow suit.
Either way, you win.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Karen James <semajrak@...>
Anything anyone can offer soon would be great. I am dreading this week. I
am so grateful we live where we live and have the freedom to do what we do.
Being a person who was raised to please everyone makes these transactions
even more difficult for me, but I do realize the importance of being strong
for my son. Thanks in advance.
Karen.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
S.
***He asked if
we had to "catch up" when we returned home. I answered by saying that, for
us, this is another learning learning opportunity. ***
Your father seems like a genuinely caring parent/grandparent. That being said, is he familiar with unschooling? If not, you may want to send him some literature on it. If he is only aware of traditional forms of education, then he may always question what you are doing. One thing that may help too, is educating them about successful (in every sense of the word) adults that have been unschooled. It's great that they care; their questions about your son show that. : )
***Being a person who was raised to please everyone makes these transactions
even more difficult for me, but I do realize the importance of being strong
for my son.***
You don't have to please your parents, but helping them understand, will hopefully put a stop to their inquisitions.
we had to "catch up" when we returned home. I answered by saying that, for
us, this is another learning learning opportunity. ***
Your father seems like a genuinely caring parent/grandparent. That being said, is he familiar with unschooling? If not, you may want to send him some literature on it. If he is only aware of traditional forms of education, then he may always question what you are doing. One thing that may help too, is educating them about successful (in every sense of the word) adults that have been unschooled. It's great that they care; their questions about your son show that. : )
***Being a person who was raised to please everyone makes these transactions
even more difficult for me, but I do realize the importance of being strong
for my son.***
You don't have to please your parents, but helping them understand, will hopefully put a stop to their inquisitions.
NCMama
~~Ask them whether they think that they did a good job raising you. <snip> If they are happy with how you turned out, they need to trust you to do what *you* think is best for your child. If they think they did a *bad* job, then they DEFINITELY need to back waay off because you don't want to follow suit. Either way, you win.~~
I read this on another list, and I started wondering... How would my mom answer? I believe her answer would be that SHE did a great job, but her ungrateful, willful, "bad" daughters screwed things up. (My two sisters and I have all had major... um... "issues" in our lives.) So, she doesn't trust the choices I make, and still believes she knows best.
{sigh} What has worked is for me to say, "I've researched unschooling, and trust that this is working." It helps that I was already the "unconventional one", so unschooling was another thing in a long line of "crazy" (in my family's view) choices. (Following the Grateful Dead, not working full time when I had the chance, homebirth, extended breastfeeding, etc.)
And, of course, now that the boys are older (17 and 11) and are sweet, smart, polite boys, there's not much anyone can say.
Caren
I read this on another list, and I started wondering... How would my mom answer? I believe her answer would be that SHE did a great job, but her ungrateful, willful, "bad" daughters screwed things up. (My two sisters and I have all had major... um... "issues" in our lives.) So, she doesn't trust the choices I make, and still believes she knows best.
{sigh} What has worked is for me to say, "I've researched unschooling, and trust that this is working." It helps that I was already the "unconventional one", so unschooling was another thing in a long line of "crazy" (in my family's view) choices. (Following the Grateful Dead, not working full time when I had the chance, homebirth, extended breastfeeding, etc.)
And, of course, now that the boys are older (17 and 11) and are sweet, smart, polite boys, there's not much anyone can say.
Caren
plaidpanties666
Karen James <semajrak@...> wrote:
If they're thinking "homeschool" then piano and applesauce and learning about gears might be sounding "educational" - which means they don't expect him to like them beyond the way kids like subjects in school. Think of some "fun" things that don't sound educational for "what do you like" questions and use things like "learning about gears" to answer "what about math/science" questions (or making applesauce or playing piano for that matter!).
---Meredith
>When my parents asked my son what he likes to do other thanIt may help your son to offer him some things to say in answer to that question. "What do you like to do?" is a kind of standard "conversation starter" that adults use with kids, so set your son up with some "answers" and have some in mind yourself so that if he's confused you can prompt or answer for him.
> computers, my son paused. "What do you mean?" he asked. He likes to do
> pretty much everything he does. We had just been talking about how much he
> enjoys the piano, how we canned some applesauce from apples we picked, how
> he just got a bike with gears and was excited about riding it and using the
> gears. It's kind of like they are not listening, and that must be confusing
> for him.
If they're thinking "homeschool" then piano and applesauce and learning about gears might be sounding "educational" - which means they don't expect him to like them beyond the way kids like subjects in school. Think of some "fun" things that don't sound educational for "what do you like" questions and use things like "learning about gears" to answer "what about math/science" questions (or making applesauce or playing piano for that matter!).
---Meredith
k
I also have tended to look beyond convention. I have 3 sisters who don't.
I've gotten those words leveled at me (ungrateful, willful, bad, screwed
up). And to hear my parents, they did it right and I sabotaged it ... by
transferring out of a perfectly good college (I was a nontrad independent
older student whose parent's permission wasn't required), and getting out
from my parents' direct influence for years. Decisions that I think were a
good idea. Then I married and had a baby in my 30s after that. My decision
to unschool has been questioned, but not very closely because of all the
foregoing history where I did my own thing for so many years without asking
their opinion or looking for their blessing at all.
Not everybody has that history with their family. And actually my mother did
the same thing but for longer ... broke with her parent and siblings for 3
decades.
I knew a handful who did the same thing I did (made their own decisions) but
it was different... they did so with their parents glad to see what their
kids did, and proud of them. I felt wistful to see it but at the same time
encouraged that in some parallel existence or in my imagination my parents
*could have* done that too.
I like to imagine that they did sometimes, and that makes me feel a lot more
charitable when I go visit. I know logically what their choices are BUT I
have become good at pretending they like me the way I am (they DO like me as
well as their ideal), and just moving through rather than pressing for my
parents to like exactly who I am. That partial pretense gives me time to
relax with them and be myself while listening and feeling their wishes for
me that I don't agree with, which I let pass through me. Otherwise I might
not have calmed down and been able to visit at all. I've only started
spending a little time with them in the last 5 or so years. It is finally ok
with me that we will likely never be close.
The hardest part is the emotional reality that children like to move from a
secure connection with their parents into the new world of exploration, and
if parents could see how wonderful that is, they might feel confident about
their grown children making different parenting decisions rather than
rejected for the different ways of the generations that come later. In my
opinion, unschooling is an excellent way to experience newness on a daily
basis.
I think people who haven't done that most of their lives will find that it's
a lot to learn, all of a sudden. And I would say that if *I* can, others who
want to can also, to whatever degree they wish.
~Katherine
I've gotten those words leveled at me (ungrateful, willful, bad, screwed
up). And to hear my parents, they did it right and I sabotaged it ... by
transferring out of a perfectly good college (I was a nontrad independent
older student whose parent's permission wasn't required), and getting out
from my parents' direct influence for years. Decisions that I think were a
good idea. Then I married and had a baby in my 30s after that. My decision
to unschool has been questioned, but not very closely because of all the
foregoing history where I did my own thing for so many years without asking
their opinion or looking for their blessing at all.
Not everybody has that history with their family. And actually my mother did
the same thing but for longer ... broke with her parent and siblings for 3
decades.
I knew a handful who did the same thing I did (made their own decisions) but
it was different... they did so with their parents glad to see what their
kids did, and proud of them. I felt wistful to see it but at the same time
encouraged that in some parallel existence or in my imagination my parents
*could have* done that too.
I like to imagine that they did sometimes, and that makes me feel a lot more
charitable when I go visit. I know logically what their choices are BUT I
have become good at pretending they like me the way I am (they DO like me as
well as their ideal), and just moving through rather than pressing for my
parents to like exactly who I am. That partial pretense gives me time to
relax with them and be myself while listening and feeling their wishes for
me that I don't agree with, which I let pass through me. Otherwise I might
not have calmed down and been able to visit at all. I've only started
spending a little time with them in the last 5 or so years. It is finally ok
with me that we will likely never be close.
The hardest part is the emotional reality that children like to move from a
secure connection with their parents into the new world of exploration, and
if parents could see how wonderful that is, they might feel confident about
their grown children making different parenting decisions rather than
rejected for the different ways of the generations that come later. In my
opinion, unschooling is an excellent way to experience newness on a daily
basis.
I think people who haven't done that most of their lives will find that it's
a lot to learn, all of a sudden. And I would say that if *I* can, others who
want to can also, to whatever degree they wish.
~Katherine
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 12:40 PM, NCMama <dharmamama1@...> wrote:
> ~~Ask them whether they think that they did a good job raising you. <snip>
> If they are happy with how you turned out, they need to trust you to do what
> *you* think is best for your child. If they think they did a *bad* job, then
> they DEFINITELY need to back waay off because you don't want to follow suit.
> Either way, you win.~~
>
>
> I read this on another list, and I started wondering... How would my mom
> answer? I believe her answer would be that SHE did a great job, but her
> ungrateful, willful, "bad" daughters screwed things up. (My two sisters and
> I have all had major... um... "issues" in our lives.) So, she doesn't trust
> the choices I make, and still believes she knows best.
>
> {sigh} What has worked is for me to say, "I've researched unschooling, and
> trust that this is working." It helps that I was already the "unconventional
> one", so unschooling was another thing in a long line of "crazy" (in my
> family's view) choices. (Following the Grateful Dead, not working full time
> when I had the chance, homebirth, extended breastfeeding, etc.)
>
> And, of course, now that the boys are older (17 and 11) and are sweet,
> smart, polite boys, there's not much anyone can say.
>
> Caren
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
Well, the proof is in the pudding, so if she raised "ungrateful, willful, 'bad' daughters who screw up," she didn't do as good of a job as she thought she did. Her "method" for teaching you how to make good choices backfired or didn't work at all, as far as she's concerned.
It still holds: in her own mind, she still failed to raise "grateful, willing 'good' daughters who don't screw up." Maybe *your* way will be better. <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: NCMama <dharmamama1@...>
I read this on another list, and I started wondering... How would my mom answer?
I believe her answer would be that SHE did a great job, but her ungrateful,
willful, "bad" daughters screwed things up. (My two sisters and I have all had
major... um... "issues" in our lives.) So, she doesn't trust the choices I make,
and still believes she knows best.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It still holds: in her own mind, she still failed to raise "grateful, willing 'good' daughters who don't screw up." Maybe *your* way will be better. <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: NCMama <dharmamama1@...>
I read this on another list, and I started wondering... How would my mom answer?
I believe her answer would be that SHE did a great job, but her ungrateful,
willful, "bad" daughters screwed things up. (My two sisters and I have all had
major... um... "issues" in our lives.) So, she doesn't trust the choices I make,
and still believes she knows best.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-if she raised "ungrateful, willful, 'bad' daughters who screw up,"
she didn't do as good of a job as she thought she did. Her "method"
for teaching you how to make good choices backfired or didn't work at
all, as far as she's concerned. -=-
Kelly, I put your earlier quote here:
http://sandradodd.com/relatives
It's just perfect.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
she didn't do as good of a job as she thought she did. Her "method"
for teaching you how to make good choices backfired or didn't work at
all, as far as she's concerned. -=-
Kelly, I put your earlier quote here:
http://sandradodd.com/relatives
It's just perfect.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dola dasgupta-banerji
**********Ask them whether they think that they did a good job raising
you.....*********
And the rest of what was posted too.
Does it always have to begin with so much hostility? Simple questions can
be answered simply.....Much of this post sounded very jarring.
Sometimes I have underestimated the ability of my own parents to understand
us and our ways of life!
Just try to explain matter of fact in the first encounter. Then do as
Sandra suggested.
If it still does not work then just stop trying to convince them for a
while.
My experience has been to work on my own confidence in unschooling so that
every time I was asked I knew exactly what to say and people just stopped
asking on their own.
For example my mom in law has this nagging habit of attributing any small
disagreement I have with my husband to unschooling. she often tells me since
the kids are at home all the time, they leave me with less energy for my
husband.
The other day she tells me "do you know in America homeschooling began
because of sex and drugs in school." I simply have tonnes of research to
back my answer to such statements. Obviously her statement has come from a
friend who has been to America once or twice to visit their sons or
daughters living there.
I have seen that when I am prepared with my research and knowledge on any
issue, I can also see through fluff and fear tactics.
Dola
you.....*********
And the rest of what was posted too.
Does it always have to begin with so much hostility? Simple questions can
be answered simply.....Much of this post sounded very jarring.
Sometimes I have underestimated the ability of my own parents to understand
us and our ways of life!
Just try to explain matter of fact in the first encounter. Then do as
Sandra suggested.
If it still does not work then just stop trying to convince them for a
while.
My experience has been to work on my own confidence in unschooling so that
every time I was asked I knew exactly what to say and people just stopped
asking on their own.
For example my mom in law has this nagging habit of attributing any small
disagreement I have with my husband to unschooling. she often tells me since
the kids are at home all the time, they leave me with less energy for my
husband.
The other day she tells me "do you know in America homeschooling began
because of sex and drugs in school." I simply have tonnes of research to
back my answer to such statements. Obviously her statement has come from a
friend who has been to America once or twice to visit their sons or
daughters living there.
I have seen that when I am prepared with my research and knowledge on any
issue, I can also see through fluff and fear tactics.
Dola
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
>
> Ask them whether they think that they did a good job raising you.
>
> If they think they *did*, tell them that they need to back off and trust
> that you know what you're doing. *You* and your husband are your child's
> parents, not them. They had their chance; now it's your turn. If they are
> happy with how you turned out, they need to trust you to do what *you* think
> is best for your child.
>
> If they think they did a *bad* job, then they DEFINITELY need to back waay
> off because you don't want to follow suit.
>
> Either way, you win.
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> "There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the
> world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne
> Williamson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karen James <semajrak@... <semajrak%40gmail.com>>
>
> Anything anyone can offer soon would be great. I am dreading this week. I
> am so grateful we live where we live and have the freedom to do what we do.
> Being a person who was raised to please everyone makes these transactions
> even more difficult for me, but I do realize the importance of being strong
> for my son. Thanks in advance.
>
> Karen.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
Does it always have to begin with so much hostility? Simple questions can
be answered simply.....Much of this post sounded very jarring.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
No hostility at all. Simple. Matter-of-fact. No nonsense.
Basically, it boils down to trust.
Most new unschoolers can't describe what they're doing. But it doesn't matter. *Your* parents got to parent *you*. Now *you* get to be the parent.
It should be *just* that easy.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be answered simply.....Much of this post sounded very jarring.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
No hostility at all. Simple. Matter-of-fact. No nonsense.
Basically, it boils down to trust.
Most new unschoolers can't describe what they're doing. But it doesn't matter. *Your* parents got to parent *you*. Now *you* get to be the parent.
It should be *just* that easy.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Does it always have to begin with so much hostility? Simple
questions can
be answered simply.....Much of this post sounded very jarring.-=-
If it doesn't, it doesn't.
Some people's parents are hostile to the point of wanting to take
their kids away from them, about unschooling. There's a great range
of reactions and there might be some U.S. realities (fundamentalist
Christianity and local child welfare offices come to mind) that just
don't apply in India.
-=-The other day she tells me "do you know in America homeschooling
began because of sex and drugs in school."-=-
MANY fundamentalist Christian homeschooling sites will say that. And
that they don't want their children exposed to "multi-culturalism" or
to information about evolution. There is also a myth among Christian
homeschoolers that there was no homeschooling before the early 1980's
when "they started it" but it's not true. John Holt and Growing
Without Schooling were secular and in full swing, in reaction to a
fair number of hippies and other social radicals, mostly in the
western U.S., with alternative/free/open-classroom schools and commune
"schools" and just not sending their kids to school.
Your mother is not wring about that sex and drugs charge, except for
the "it began" part. But the Christian Homeschooling movement with
its vast financial investments in "protection" and re-written history
and Bible-based "science" are there, and huge.
For me, I think schools tell kids too little, not too much.
I think schools control kids too much, not too little.
The opposite view is held by more homeschoolers than not.
I keep reading offhand comments from people (unschoolers and liberals)
scoffing at the suggestion that most homeschoolers are religious
school-at-home families. In the United States, they are. Most. By
far. Just because things have progressed to the point that someone
can unschool or homeschool for years without ever encountering them
doesn't mean they aren't still there. Their conferences draw
*THOUSANDS* of people. Not a few hundred, like the big unschooling
conferences do.
Sandra
questions can
be answered simply.....Much of this post sounded very jarring.-=-
If it doesn't, it doesn't.
Some people's parents are hostile to the point of wanting to take
their kids away from them, about unschooling. There's a great range
of reactions and there might be some U.S. realities (fundamentalist
Christianity and local child welfare offices come to mind) that just
don't apply in India.
-=-The other day she tells me "do you know in America homeschooling
began because of sex and drugs in school."-=-
MANY fundamentalist Christian homeschooling sites will say that. And
that they don't want their children exposed to "multi-culturalism" or
to information about evolution. There is also a myth among Christian
homeschoolers that there was no homeschooling before the early 1980's
when "they started it" but it's not true. John Holt and Growing
Without Schooling were secular and in full swing, in reaction to a
fair number of hippies and other social radicals, mostly in the
western U.S., with alternative/free/open-classroom schools and commune
"schools" and just not sending their kids to school.
Your mother is not wring about that sex and drugs charge, except for
the "it began" part. But the Christian Homeschooling movement with
its vast financial investments in "protection" and re-written history
and Bible-based "science" are there, and huge.
For me, I think schools tell kids too little, not too much.
I think schools control kids too much, not too little.
The opposite view is held by more homeschoolers than not.
I keep reading offhand comments from people (unschoolers and liberals)
scoffing at the suggestion that most homeschoolers are religious
school-at-home families. In the United States, they are. Most. By
far. Just because things have progressed to the point that someone
can unschool or homeschool for years without ever encountering them
doesn't mean they aren't still there. Their conferences draw
*THOUSANDS* of people. Not a few hundred, like the big unschooling
conferences do.
Sandra
[email protected]
"I also have tended to look beyond convention."
My husband and I have been very non-traditional not only in homeschooling but in our family life, and it has caused some rifts in my family that are still not mended. My DH was an at-home dad for twelve years with our youngest (and only homeschooled) child. We did some "school at home" stuff, but the majority of Micah's life has been all about unschooling. Not really radical unschooling until the past three years, but those three years have been amazing. He's almost 16 now, and I have never seen a teen like him. The only teens in our area are in public school, so that's a big divider in itself.
As to answering questions with family, it depended upon who was asking. I, too, had a terrible childhood. It has really dictated how I've raised my own kids. My parents didn't understand the homeschooling part, and definitely wouldn't understand unschooling at all, so when they ask I usually just pick out a couple of things Micah's talked about or done recently. I don't get into philosophical discussions with my parents - we're too vastly different and I have some serious unresolved "inner child" issues to be able to have any kind of intelligent debate with them.
My siblings have mixed reactions, and are usually content to tell me how great their kids are doing in school, and asking me what grades Micah's getting this year. It depends on the context as to how I respond to them. My sister thinks my husband is a total bum for staying home with our kids and "mooching" off me (her words - never mine) for so many years. I don't even attempt to explain things to her because she's already made up her mind.
If family or friends are genuinely interested, I have a discussion with them and show them resources on unschooling and the whole philosophy behind it. I generally try to draw a comparison on how adults learn things (as they need to or want to) and how children learn (by experience, when they need to have a skill, etc). Most of the people whose opinions I care about get this concept. Those who don't generally back off when they see I've gone off on a rant. I have a rant reputation...lol!
I also blog about it and use my blog as a means of explanation.
Debbie
http://www.pandoraknits.com
http://www.schoolbytes.org
http://www.utopiamissed.org (coming soon!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My husband and I have been very non-traditional not only in homeschooling but in our family life, and it has caused some rifts in my family that are still not mended. My DH was an at-home dad for twelve years with our youngest (and only homeschooled) child. We did some "school at home" stuff, but the majority of Micah's life has been all about unschooling. Not really radical unschooling until the past three years, but those three years have been amazing. He's almost 16 now, and I have never seen a teen like him. The only teens in our area are in public school, so that's a big divider in itself.
As to answering questions with family, it depended upon who was asking. I, too, had a terrible childhood. It has really dictated how I've raised my own kids. My parents didn't understand the homeschooling part, and definitely wouldn't understand unschooling at all, so when they ask I usually just pick out a couple of things Micah's talked about or done recently. I don't get into philosophical discussions with my parents - we're too vastly different and I have some serious unresolved "inner child" issues to be able to have any kind of intelligent debate with them.
My siblings have mixed reactions, and are usually content to tell me how great their kids are doing in school, and asking me what grades Micah's getting this year. It depends on the context as to how I respond to them. My sister thinks my husband is a total bum for staying home with our kids and "mooching" off me (her words - never mine) for so many years. I don't even attempt to explain things to her because she's already made up her mind.
If family or friends are genuinely interested, I have a discussion with them and show them resources on unschooling and the whole philosophy behind it. I generally try to draw a comparison on how adults learn things (as they need to or want to) and how children learn (by experience, when they need to have a skill, etc). Most of the people whose opinions I care about get this concept. Those who don't generally back off when they see I've gone off on a rant. I have a rant reputation...lol!
I also blog about it and use my blog as a means of explanation.
Debbie
http://www.pandoraknits.com
http://www.schoolbytes.org
http://www.utopiamissed.org (coming soon!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I also blog about it and use my blog as a means of explanation. -=-
I wish every unschooler had a blog and kept it up at least weekly. :-)
Photos of happy kids doing cool things and hanging out with other
families would shush up just about any detractors.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wish every unschooler had a blog and kept it up at least weekly. :-)
Photos of happy kids doing cool things and hanging out with other
families would shush up just about any detractors.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laureen
Heya
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> I wish every unschooler had a blog and kept it up at least weekly. :-)
> Photos of happy kids doing cool things and hanging out with other
> families would shush up just about any detractors.
I would like to second, third and fourth this. Not only because I've
found other unschooler blogs to be really inspiring, but also from a
sheer, strategic keyword perspective.
See, when you type "unschool" or "unschooling" into a search, the
search engine results page (SERP) ranks things on all kinds of crazy
algorithms that change all the time, but the #1 that never has is
keyword usage. So if the search engine has a whole lot of sites with a
solid keyword density (that is, they talk about unschooling a lot),
then the SERP will be filled with really solid sites. As it is, there
are so few sites (compared to a lot of other things, including
unschooling detractors) that the SERP is kinda spotty. For instance,
the Wikipedia page on Unschooling comes up before Sandra's page, but
if I was trying to explain unschooling to doubting relatives, I sure
wouldn't want them seeing the wikipedia page first, y'know? The ABC
News piece on unschooling comes up WAY before, say, Joyce's page.
Tammy Takahashi, Ronnie Maier, and Frank Maier, some of my favorite
weekly (or daily) reads, don't even show up by the end of page 2. And
that is a complete shame, because I think that reading them presents a
really nice balance. The Life Without School collective blog, which is
live but not active, isn't even on page 3, and it contains the
hands-down best essay on why living right now today with your kids is
important I've ever read (Missy's "Chasing Bananas", if you want to
know.)
Right now, the haters and doubters have the upper hand. They're
interleaved between the good results on the SERP, and that is NOT a
good way to convince search-engine questers.
So yeah. If every person who loves and is inspired by unschooling
blogged about it, even once a week, and tagged their posts with
"unschool, unschooling, homeschooling" we'd have a solid three pages
of SERP results before folks got to the bad stuff, and we'd be a
sizeable presence on the "homeschooling" searches too.
And in today's Google world, a *lot* of folks inform their opinions
based on what they find in the SERP. And what they find depends a lot
on what *we* put there.
--
~~L!
s/v Excellent Adventure
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
"I can’t understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I’m
frightened of the old ones."
~~John Cage
Sandra Dodd
-=-For instance,
the Wikipedia page on Unschooling comes up before Sandra's page, but
if I was trying to explain unschooling to doubting relatives, I sure
wouldn't want them seeing the wikipedia page first, y'know? The ABC
News piece on unschooling comes up WAY before, say, Joyce's page.-=-
I think some of that goes by where that searcher has been before,
doesn't it? Or something.
Mine gave me
unschooling.com
wikipedia
lifeisgoodconference.com
then me
Natural Child Project...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the Wikipedia page on Unschooling comes up before Sandra's page, but
if I was trying to explain unschooling to doubting relatives, I sure
wouldn't want them seeing the wikipedia page first, y'know? The ABC
News piece on unschooling comes up WAY before, say, Joyce's page.-=-
I think some of that goes by where that searcher has been before,
doesn't it? Or something.
Mine gave me
unschooling.com
wikipedia
lifeisgoodconference.com
then me
Natural Child Project...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laureen
Heya
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> I think some of that goes by where that searcher has been before,
> doesn't it? Or something.
>
> Mine gave me
> unschooling.com
> wikipedia
> lifeisgoodconference.com
> then me
> Natural Child Project...
Wikipedia is ahead of you and ahead of Joyce and ahead of a TON of
other superior references. And have you *looked* at the wikipedia
page? Not confidence-inspiring. The SERP is not based on where you've
gone, it's based on a bunch of proprietary algorithms. In fact, Google
caused a stir in the Search Engine Optimization world a few weeks ago
by announcing that page load speed was going to be a factor, going
forward.
The point is, most people never ever look past the first page, let
alone to the first three, which is how far back you have to go to find
what I know to be excellent sources. Those sources would pop up if the
keyword density increased in *other* sites, so as to crowd out the
really rotten sources.
--
~~L!
s/v Excellent Adventure
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
"I can’t understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I’m
frightened of the old ones."
~~John Cage
Sandra Dodd
> Mine gave meJOYCE WAS RIGHT THERE
> unschooling.com
> wikipedia
> lifeisgoodconference.com[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> then me
> Natural Child Project...
Sandra Dodd
-=-The point is, most people never ever look past the first page, let
alone to the first three, which is how far back you have to go to find
what I know to be excellent sources. Those sources would pop up if the
keyword density increased in *other* sites, so as to crowd out the
really rotten sources.-=-
I don't understand how "keyword density" of a bunch of blogs (which
don't have keyword codes, do they?) would keep wikipedia's page off
the top, but I'm linked on the wikipedia page.
According to the stats at my yahoo smallbusiness page, there are
29,410 links to my site. Not all to the unschooling page; the David
Bowie letter has been linked a lot. But mostly unschooling links from
other people's pages, and blog links.
I think people who want to find unschooling do find it.
Sandra
alone to the first three, which is how far back you have to go to find
what I know to be excellent sources. Those sources would pop up if the
keyword density increased in *other* sites, so as to crowd out the
really rotten sources.-=-
I don't understand how "keyword density" of a bunch of blogs (which
don't have keyword codes, do they?) would keep wikipedia's page off
the top, but I'm linked on the wikipedia page.
According to the stats at my yahoo smallbusiness page, there are
29,410 links to my site. Not all to the unschooling page; the David
Bowie letter has been linked a lot. But mostly unschooling links from
other people's pages, and blog links.
I think people who want to find unschooling do find it.
Sandra
aldq75
I also get Joyce third, in front of Sandra. lifeisgoodconference.com does not show up on the first page of my search.
I really think it does depend on sites you've previously visited!
Andrea Q
I really think it does depend on sites you've previously visited!
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> > Mine gave me
> > unschooling.com
> > wikipedia
> JOYCE WAS RIGHT THERE
> > lifeisgoodconference.com
> > then me
> > Natural Child Project...
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
aldq75
Sandra,
I was able to confirm that you are correct that browsing history matters. This Google page http://www.google.com/corporate/tech.html says: "we offer personalized search results based on your web history and location". They use more than 200 algorithms to rank results!
While I wouldn't discourage people from adding keywords to their blogs, search engines are smart enough to detect keyword spamming, so don't overdo it. There's a lot more to page rank; adding quality links is important, too.
Andrea Q
I was able to confirm that you are correct that browsing history matters. This Google page http://www.google.com/corporate/tech.html says: "we offer personalized search results based on your web history and location". They use more than 200 algorithms to rank results!
While I wouldn't discourage people from adding keywords to their blogs, search engines are smart enough to detect keyword spamming, so don't overdo it. There's a lot more to page rank; adding quality links is important, too.
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-For instance,
> the Wikipedia page on Unschooling comes up before Sandra's page, but
> if I was trying to explain unschooling to doubting relatives, I sure
> wouldn't want them seeing the wikipedia page first, y'know? The ABC
> News piece on unschooling comes up WAY before, say, Joyce's page.-=-
>
> I think some of that goes by where that searcher has been before,
> doesn't it? Or something.
>
> Mine gave me
> unschooling.com
> wikipedia
> lifeisgoodconference.com
> then me
> Natural Child Project...
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Robin Bentley
>You could edit it <g>.
> Wikipedia is ahead of you and ahead of Joyce and ahead of a TON of
> other superior references. And have you *looked* at the wikipedia
> page? Not confidence-inspiring.
Robin B.
Robin Bentley
>Interesting. I've found her blog to be more about "softer" ways of
> Tammy Takahashi,
teaching (and she uses that term *a lot*). And while I think her
approach may be superior to school-at-home, I'm not sure she's an
unschooler. At least, you'd never know it from reading the blog.
Perhaps I'm mistaken.
> Ronnie Maier, and Frank Maier, some of my favoriteRonnie and Frank are some of my favorite people in real life <g>. And
> weekly (or daily) reads,
some pretty darn decent unschoolers and bloggers, to boot.
In my Google search, I get:
unschooling.com
unschooling.com FAQ pages
Wikipedia
Sandra's site
unschooling.org (the site for FUN books)
Robin B.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 5, 2010, at 6:44 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
often ;-) I just send links to the front page.) I do get a couple of
New England sites: New England Unschooling Conference, Holt GWS
You get to be number 1 for radical unschooling. :-) I show up on the
3rd page.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > Mine gave meI don't get me until the second page. (Though I don't visit my site
> > unschooling.com
> > wikipedia
> JOYCE WAS RIGHT THERE
> > lifeisgoodconference.com
> > then me
> > Natural Child Project...
often ;-) I just send links to the front page.) I do get a couple of
New England sites: New England Unschooling Conference, Holt GWS
You get to be number 1 for radical unschooling. :-) I show up on the
3rd page.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
undermom
I love Frank Maier to death. I love to read his writing.
Still, I'd strongly advise folks trying to help their skeptical relatives to understand unschooling NOT NOT NOT to send them to Frank's blog. :) They're too likely to get offended and then decide that they really are right to worry about this strange idea.
Deborah in IL
Still, I'd strongly advise folks trying to help their skeptical relatives to understand unschooling NOT NOT NOT to send them to Frank's blog. :) They're too likely to get offended and then decide that they really are right to worry about this strange idea.
Deborah in IL
> > Ronnie Maier, and Frank Maier, some of my favorite
> > weekly (or daily) reads,
>
> Ronnie and Frank are some of my favorite people in real life <g>. And
> some pretty darn decent unschoolers and bloggers, to boot.
Sandra Dodd
-=-Still, I'd strongly advise folks trying to help their skeptical
relatives to understand unschooling NOT NOT NOT to send them to
Frank's blog. :) They're too likely to get offended and then decide
that they really are right to worry about this strange idea.-=-
My point was not for people to send their relatives to other blogs,
but for families with skeptical relatives to keep their OWN blogs with
photos of their OWN children doing interesting things, with a running
"portfolio" of activities and accomplishments, interesting questions
and cute quotes.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
relatives to understand unschooling NOT NOT NOT to send them to
Frank's blog. :) They're too likely to get offended and then decide
that they really are right to worry about this strange idea.-=-
My point was not for people to send their relatives to other blogs,
but for families with skeptical relatives to keep their OWN blogs with
photos of their OWN children doing interesting things, with a running
"portfolio" of activities and accomplishments, interesting questions
and cute quotes.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
>Interesting. I've found her blog to be more about "softer" ways of
> Tammy Takahashi,
teaching (and she uses that term *a lot*). And while I think her
approach may be superior to school-at-home, I'm not sure she's an
unschooler. At least, you'd never know it from reading the blog.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
This is the first thing I saw in her blog:
<<<Teach Until They Get It
I love this idea - “Teach until they learn it.”
It’s so easy to get annoyed with our kids when they “just won’t learn.” But why?
Why is it so important that they learn on the first, second, third, or even
fourth attempt? Why do they have to learn it *now*? What’s the hurry?
Maybe we need those first fifteen exposures before we can figure it out.>>>>
It is pretty clear her understanding of unschooling is so not what we talk
about here. All you read there is teach , teach , teach.
I had never heard of her at all until today.
I know there are many more unschooling advocates and writers that I don;t know.
No wonder people come here and say things that makes us go hmmm!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
undermom
Someone else had suggested that it would be a good idea for Frank's blog to show up on the first page of a Google Search. My reply had nothing to do with your suggestion of parents keeping blogs documenting their children's fabulous lives.
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Still, I'd strongly advise folks trying to help their skeptical
> relatives to understand unschooling NOT NOT NOT to send them to
> Frank's blog. :) They're too likely to get offended and then decide
> that they really are right to worry about this strange idea.-=-
>
> My point was not for people to send their relatives to other blogs,
> but for families with skeptical relatives to keep their OWN blogs with
> photos of their OWN children doing interesting things, with a running
> "portfolio" of activities and accomplishments, interesting questions
> and cute quotes.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
aldq75
If you are unable to keep up with a blog (or don't enjoy writing), sharing photos at Flickr or Shutterfly is a nice way to keep grandparents updated.
Andrea Q
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Still, I'd strongly advise folks trying to help their skeptical
> relatives to understand unschooling NOT NOT NOT to send them to
> Frank's blog. :) They're too likely to get offended and then decide
> that they really are right to worry about this strange idea.-=-
>
> My point was not for people to send their relatives to other blogs,
> but for families with skeptical relatives to keep their OWN blogs with
> photos of their OWN children doing interesting things, with a running
> "portfolio" of activities and accomplishments, interesting questions
> and cute quotes.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Andrea Catalano
<<<He asked if we had to "catch up" when we returned home.>>>
I might have answered "yes" to this question and detailed all of the things -- projects, activities, books you're reading, regular outings, etc -- that you will pick back up when you get home. It sounds like your family is seeing things in schoolish terms, which is not at all surprising if they haven't learned much about unschooling. Maybe some reassurance in terms that they undestand will diffuse their anger and worry, and lead to better conversations.
- andrea
Sent from my iPhone
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I might have answered "yes" to this question and detailed all of the things -- projects, activities, books you're reading, regular outings, etc -- that you will pick back up when you get home. It sounds like your family is seeing things in schoolish terms, which is not at all surprising if they haven't learned much about unschooling. Maybe some reassurance in terms that they undestand will diffuse their anger and worry, and lead to better conversations.
- andrea
Sent from my iPhone
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]