"doing our best"
Sandra Dodd
"I love reading about bad days. Sometimes everyone seems so perfect
and I am far from it. I like being reminded that we are both indeed
human and doing our best."
That's not a quote from this list. It was an anonymous (seemed; not a
name on it, really) comment on a blog post in which a mom had admitted
to having had a bad day. Before reading that blog post, I had
admitted to a bad day here:
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2010/09/some-problems-with-respect.html
(in a note under the photos).
But I don't "love reading about bad days."
A couple of years ago on this list, I think it was, someone asked for
us all to describe our screw-ups and failures so she would feel
better, and Pam Sorooshian wrote something eloquent. If someone is
feeling up to an archive search, that might make a good quote here.
The idea that it's GOOD to share screwups to make other people feel
better for being far from perfect doesn't seem like a good use of the
writing and reading time of all the people on this list (nor of any of
them, frankly). No one should need to be reminded that we are all
human. What else would we be? Humans are human.
But to be reminded that we are doing our best? When we're writing
about failures?
Failure is not my best. Having an argument with Holly is not "doing
my best."
Encouraging people to comfort themselves with tales of failure is not
the way to help people create a rich life of joy and wonder for their
children.
Sandra
and I am far from it. I like being reminded that we are both indeed
human and doing our best."
That's not a quote from this list. It was an anonymous (seemed; not a
name on it, really) comment on a blog post in which a mom had admitted
to having had a bad day. Before reading that blog post, I had
admitted to a bad day here:
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2010/09/some-problems-with-respect.html
(in a note under the photos).
But I don't "love reading about bad days."
A couple of years ago on this list, I think it was, someone asked for
us all to describe our screw-ups and failures so she would feel
better, and Pam Sorooshian wrote something eloquent. If someone is
feeling up to an archive search, that might make a good quote here.
The idea that it's GOOD to share screwups to make other people feel
better for being far from perfect doesn't seem like a good use of the
writing and reading time of all the people on this list (nor of any of
them, frankly). No one should need to be reminded that we are all
human. What else would we be? Humans are human.
But to be reminded that we are doing our best? When we're writing
about failures?
Failure is not my best. Having an argument with Holly is not "doing
my best."
Encouraging people to comfort themselves with tales of failure is not
the way to help people create a rich life of joy and wonder for their
children.
Sandra
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 16, 2010, at 8:48 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
they're doing raising kids and the conclusion was families were
stressed and muddling through barely adequately. (Sorry I wish I could
find it but I can't even remember enough to Google. It may have been
just before vacation so I didn't have enough attention to give it.)
But what I do remember was a comment by a guy who said he hoped there
would be a documentary because it would be so relieving.
That probably comes from a place of guilt. He and other parents know
they aren't doing great. And there's a feeling everyone else is doing
better. But because they don't know how to do better, don't know
anything other than "trying harder", they have this guilt building up.
What a documentary of other muddling along parents would do is allow
him to say "Well, at least I'm not that bad," or "I'm doing just as
poorly as most everyone else." In other words, it's not a personal
failure but a problem that baffles most everyone so it's okay if your
parenting is at the level of not sucking as bad as the parents down
the street with the pregnant teen, or the family with the son who's
been arrested *again*.
I think for mainstream parents it isn't possible to do better because
they have a goal labeled "Good Parenting" that's really a vague
collection of subgoals they don't realize that they need to clarify.
And the tools for "Good Parenting" require them to sacrifice one
subgoal for another and the subgoals don't all head in the same
direction anyway, so "Good Parenting" can't get anywhere except by
luck of genes and personalities that happen to be compatible with the
parents' tools.
People want those who are seemingly doing radical unschooling
effortlessly to say, "Yes, I screw up too," to ease their guilt so
they can use the energy they poured into the guilt to keep on keeping
on.
Guilt is good for stopping people from repeating the same mistake.
Guilt won't help people *do* better, though. Nor will lack of guilt.
It's wanting something better and clarity about what you want. It's
knowledge about how you can get there and what it will cost. It's
working at a problem to find clarity. It's asking for help to clarify
and get ideas. It's trying ideas. It's thinking about what worked or
didn't and why to get more clarity and then working at it some more.
A shift in parenting won't just happen. What people see in posts from
long time posters isn't effortless understanding but the culmination
of thousands of hours of doing (eg, *trying* ideas some of which
succeed and some of which fail), thinking, doing, asking, doing,
discussing, doing, and reading. There isn't a short cut. It takes
dedicated focus on the goal.
Hopefully some of the experience passed on from long time posters will
help newer people avoid some of the really wrong turnings we all
stumbled through but no one can hand anyone understanding. (That's
what schools try to do.) Understanding comes from doing, thinking,
asking, discussing, and reading.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But to be reminded that we are doing our best? When we're writingThere was an article, an interview with a lot of parents on how
> about failures?
they're doing raising kids and the conclusion was families were
stressed and muddling through barely adequately. (Sorry I wish I could
find it but I can't even remember enough to Google. It may have been
just before vacation so I didn't have enough attention to give it.)
But what I do remember was a comment by a guy who said he hoped there
would be a documentary because it would be so relieving.
That probably comes from a place of guilt. He and other parents know
they aren't doing great. And there's a feeling everyone else is doing
better. But because they don't know how to do better, don't know
anything other than "trying harder", they have this guilt building up.
What a documentary of other muddling along parents would do is allow
him to say "Well, at least I'm not that bad," or "I'm doing just as
poorly as most everyone else." In other words, it's not a personal
failure but a problem that baffles most everyone so it's okay if your
parenting is at the level of not sucking as bad as the parents down
the street with the pregnant teen, or the family with the son who's
been arrested *again*.
I think for mainstream parents it isn't possible to do better because
they have a goal labeled "Good Parenting" that's really a vague
collection of subgoals they don't realize that they need to clarify.
And the tools for "Good Parenting" require them to sacrifice one
subgoal for another and the subgoals don't all head in the same
direction anyway, so "Good Parenting" can't get anywhere except by
luck of genes and personalities that happen to be compatible with the
parents' tools.
People want those who are seemingly doing radical unschooling
effortlessly to say, "Yes, I screw up too," to ease their guilt so
they can use the energy they poured into the guilt to keep on keeping
on.
Guilt is good for stopping people from repeating the same mistake.
Guilt won't help people *do* better, though. Nor will lack of guilt.
It's wanting something better and clarity about what you want. It's
knowledge about how you can get there and what it will cost. It's
working at a problem to find clarity. It's asking for help to clarify
and get ideas. It's trying ideas. It's thinking about what worked or
didn't and why to get more clarity and then working at it some more.
A shift in parenting won't just happen. What people see in posts from
long time posters isn't effortless understanding but the culmination
of thousands of hours of doing (eg, *trying* ideas some of which
succeed and some of which fail), thinking, doing, asking, doing,
discussing, doing, and reading. There isn't a short cut. It takes
dedicated focus on the goal.
Hopefully some of the experience passed on from long time posters will
help newer people avoid some of the really wrong turnings we all
stumbled through but no one can hand anyone understanding. (That's
what schools try to do.) Understanding comes from doing, thinking,
asking, discussing, and reading.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dana_burdick
Joyce Wrote:
==Guilt is good for stopping people from repeating the same mistake.
Or, just paralyzing them, so they stay in the same pattern.
My dentist and his assistant love to use guilt tactics to `motivate' me to floss religiously. The slightest imperfection in my gums is discussed in whispered tones behind me as if I'm some kind of terminal patient. It's funny whenever I go to the dentist, I always feel like I'm back at school being judged, graded and guilted. After returning to the dentist after a missed appointment the assistant commented that it was good to see me and, as if she'd won, asked if the guilt finally made me come in. Yes, she used the word directly. I said, "Certainly not. Wanting my teeth clean is why I came here." She was a bit put off by my reply.
Guilt is a poor motivator, for sure.
-Dana
==Guilt is good for stopping people from repeating the same mistake.
Or, just paralyzing them, so they stay in the same pattern.
My dentist and his assistant love to use guilt tactics to `motivate' me to floss religiously. The slightest imperfection in my gums is discussed in whispered tones behind me as if I'm some kind of terminal patient. It's funny whenever I go to the dentist, I always feel like I'm back at school being judged, graded and guilted. After returning to the dentist after a missed appointment the assistant commented that it was good to see me and, as if she'd won, asked if the guilt finally made me come in. Yes, she used the word directly. I said, "Certainly not. Wanting my teeth clean is why I came here." She was a bit put off by my reply.
Guilt is a poor motivator, for sure.
-Dana
kristi_beguin
>>>Failure is not my best.<<<Precisely.
>>>Encouraging people to comfort themselves with tales of failure is not the way to help people create a rich life of joy and wonder for their children.<<<Because of this list, I have come to realize that support, or pats on the shoulder, or statements such as, "you're only human, you mess up every now and then," are absolutely NOT what I need to be hearing when it comes to my own bad parenting moments.
As an parent of young children, I don't need excuses, I need to work hard. I strive continually, daily, hourly to continue my efforts in being a peaceful Mama. Indeed, we are human, and because of that we have the mental and emotional capability to continue to better ourselves. Because of this list, I am fortunate to be able read through the experiences of others who have been doing this work for years, decades even! I am thankful for wisdom and helpful hints that are shared.
Terra
In one respect, telling ourselves that we have done "good enough" can create denial, and telling ourselves "we are not good enough" can create guilt.
As moms who are unschooling - we need to drop the self talk all together (since either way we just find ourselves creating problems) and relax and TRUST....
-Terra
As moms who are unschooling - we need to drop the self talk all together (since either way we just find ourselves creating problems) and relax and TRUST....
-Terra
--- In [email protected], "kristi_beguin" <foehn_jye@...> wrote:
>
> >>>Failure is not my best.<<<
>
> Precisely.
>
> >>>Encouraging people to comfort themselves with tales of failure is not the way to help people create a rich life of joy and wonder for their children.<<<
>
> Because of this list, I have come to realize that support, or pats on the shoulder, or statements such as, "you're only human, you mess up every now and then," are absolutely NOT what I need to be hearing when it comes to my own bad parenting moments.
>
> As an parent of young children, I don't need excuses, I need to work hard. I strive continually, daily, hourly to continue my efforts in being a peaceful Mama. Indeed, we are human, and because of that we have the mental and emotional capability to continue to better ourselves. Because of this list, I am fortunate to be able read through the experiences of others who have been doing this work for years, decades even! I am thankful for wisdom and helpful hints that are shared.
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-As moms who are unschooling - we need to drop the self talk all
together (since either way we just find ourselves creating problems)
and relax and TRUST.... -=-
I disagree.
Calling it "self talk" isn't helpful, but suggesting that people
should stop weighing their decisions, or stop considering their
choices--that's not very good advice.
What would one be trusting in capital letters if one relaxed and
trusted? At which point is it time to TRUST?
Trust what?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
together (since either way we just find ourselves creating problems)
and relax and TRUST.... -=-
I disagree.
Calling it "self talk" isn't helpful, but suggesting that people
should stop weighing their decisions, or stop considering their
choices--that's not very good advice.
What would one be trusting in capital letters if one relaxed and
trusted? At which point is it time to TRUST?
Trust what?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Just being aware of what is transpiring on a moment by moment basis and
noticing how it feels does more to move (motivate) me than any amount of
self-induced or other guilt, shame, whatever. I can naturally tune into
choices when I pay attention to my feelings rather than thinking and talking
in rote ways about guilt or what I "should" do or be. Tuning into feelings
isn't something I do automatically, and now that I am consciously doing
that, the need for formulaic ideas about what to do is superfluous.
It really isn't trust so much as mindfulness. That's different than trusting
in something nebulous.
Contrast that with habitual behavior: Does a dog improve when someone says
"bad dog?" Do we interact with the dog in a way that inspires change or are
we simply "training" ourselves as we "train" the dog. I don't think anything
change-worthy happens. That can be a mostly unconscious thoughtless
interaction every time. And one can "try very hard" and get nowhere. When
the dog behaves again in similar ways, someone just gets another chance to
say "bad dog." Again. It's easy to do the same thing with ourselves and
others. It puts layers between self and action, between self and our
children (and others). That's one result of labeling people and actions and
things like that. It's an avoidance of making actual changes.
Habitual formulaic repetitive well-rehearsed behavior eventually seems
"natural" and easy, like falling off a log. Easy. Changing back to what I
want to do and be can become no longer natural.
It takes just a bit of time, a moment, to stop and ask why or to notice
how I feel about my part in something when I hit a wall with others and in
my own thinking (when I find myself being repetitive). Each one of those
moments can add up to lots of change over time in the way I behave.
~Katherine
noticing how it feels does more to move (motivate) me than any amount of
self-induced or other guilt, shame, whatever. I can naturally tune into
choices when I pay attention to my feelings rather than thinking and talking
in rote ways about guilt or what I "should" do or be. Tuning into feelings
isn't something I do automatically, and now that I am consciously doing
that, the need for formulaic ideas about what to do is superfluous.
It really isn't trust so much as mindfulness. That's different than trusting
in something nebulous.
Contrast that with habitual behavior: Does a dog improve when someone says
"bad dog?" Do we interact with the dog in a way that inspires change or are
we simply "training" ourselves as we "train" the dog. I don't think anything
change-worthy happens. That can be a mostly unconscious thoughtless
interaction every time. And one can "try very hard" and get nowhere. When
the dog behaves again in similar ways, someone just gets another chance to
say "bad dog." Again. It's easy to do the same thing with ourselves and
others. It puts layers between self and action, between self and our
children (and others). That's one result of labeling people and actions and
things like that. It's an avoidance of making actual changes.
Habitual formulaic repetitive well-rehearsed behavior eventually seems
"natural" and easy, like falling off a log. Easy. Changing back to what I
want to do and be can become no longer natural.
It takes just a bit of time, a moment, to stop and ask why or to notice
how I feel about my part in something when I hit a wall with others and in
my own thinking (when I find myself being repetitive). Each one of those
moments can add up to lots of change over time in the way I behave.
~Katherine
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-As moms who are unschooling - we need to drop the self talk all
> together (since either way we just find ourselves creating problems)
> and relax and TRUST.... -=-
>
> I disagree.
> Calling it "self talk" isn't helpful, but suggesting that people
> should stop weighing their decisions, or stop considering their
> choices--that's not very good advice.
>
> What would one be trusting in capital letters if one relaxed and
> trusted? At which point is it time to TRUST?
> Trust what?
>
> Sandra
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sandralynndodd
"You're a phenomenal woman, a beautiful person, doing an extraordinary job, making things happen for those you love...and although you might not always feel it, you are loved and appreciated.♥ Copy/paste this on the walls of 7 women (even if it's already there from someone else) who deserves to be noticed. "
Not only is it not personal, it's sent by someone who didn't write it. How sincere can THAT be!?
Sometimes I do buy a greeting card with text written by someone else. Sometimes I do quote another writer. But this sort of "praise" which isn't praise and "support" which isn't support is out there. I guess I'd like to keep it out there, and not in here on Always Learning.
The example above was on a friend's facebook page posted by someone I don't know. Chain-letter support. As a game, it's kind of sweet. If it's not kept separate, mentally and intellectually, from actual communication, it seems almost harmful.
Not only is it not personal, it's sent by someone who didn't write it. How sincere can THAT be!?
Sometimes I do buy a greeting card with text written by someone else. Sometimes I do quote another writer. But this sort of "praise" which isn't praise and "support" which isn't support is out there. I guess I'd like to keep it out there, and not in here on Always Learning.
The example above was on a friend's facebook page posted by someone I don't know. Chain-letter support. As a game, it's kind of sweet. If it's not kept separate, mentally and intellectually, from actual communication, it seems almost harmful.