How Learning Works (a rant by Sandra Dodd, inspired by an educated educator)
Sandra Dodd
There's a mention of WWII in this article:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/health/Unschooled+kids+call+shots/3456534/story.html
It's a good article on unschooling that was in the Calgary Herald,
August 29 2010.
The unschooling parts are really great. The quotes from
"experts" (always included in articles to allegedly 'balance' them)
had a couple that made me hoot:
"In the real world, sometimes you have to complete a task you don't
love."
I would love to have been there when those words were uttered to say
"Could you name one?" Years of practice on this list and reading
Joyce's really great analogies have me all ready to show ANYone that
they're making choices, not living in "have to" world.
This one is baffling. It has no quotes, so maybe the fumble was in
the paraphrasing by the writer, but this is a VERY odd thing for
someone to have thought, said or reported on:
"Overcoming adversity or mastering challenging, unliked concepts
builds self-confidence and self-esteem, says Bell. She also wonders if
unschooled kids would learn bits and pieces of knowledge, but perhaps
never integrate the strands of education into a cohesive whole. As a
former teacher and school principal, she argues children often need an
educated educator to help link everything together so they are
prepared to go out into the world."
An "educated educator"??!! I suppose it's education that makes one an
educated educator.
But aside from that, it wasn't until I took a humanities class when I
was 15 that ANYONE in school suggested to me that art and history and
music and science were indistinguishable in the real world. And I was
a curious kid who learned for fun. But I still thought somehow that
each thing might be the intersection between two things, but to
intersect with ALL things!? Fifteen. And I bet even of the kids in
that class with me (a very small subset of kids at our school) most of
them didn't take that 'news' from that course.
If I put this on a webpage, I'm going to call it How Learning Works (a
rant by Sandra Dodd, inspired by an educated educator)
The way learning works with unschooling is that each thing a child
learns--each bit or piece of knowledge--becomes a part of his cohesive
whole. He doesn't have "strands of education." He has learning.
Real, honest, whole, personal learning.
Sandra
http://www.calgaryherald.com/health/Unschooled+kids+call+shots/3456534/story.html
It's a good article on unschooling that was in the Calgary Herald,
August 29 2010.
The unschooling parts are really great. The quotes from
"experts" (always included in articles to allegedly 'balance' them)
had a couple that made me hoot:
"In the real world, sometimes you have to complete a task you don't
love."
I would love to have been there when those words were uttered to say
"Could you name one?" Years of practice on this list and reading
Joyce's really great analogies have me all ready to show ANYone that
they're making choices, not living in "have to" world.
This one is baffling. It has no quotes, so maybe the fumble was in
the paraphrasing by the writer, but this is a VERY odd thing for
someone to have thought, said or reported on:
"Overcoming adversity or mastering challenging, unliked concepts
builds self-confidence and self-esteem, says Bell. She also wonders if
unschooled kids would learn bits and pieces of knowledge, but perhaps
never integrate the strands of education into a cohesive whole. As a
former teacher and school principal, she argues children often need an
educated educator to help link everything together so they are
prepared to go out into the world."
An "educated educator"??!! I suppose it's education that makes one an
educated educator.
But aside from that, it wasn't until I took a humanities class when I
was 15 that ANYONE in school suggested to me that art and history and
music and science were indistinguishable in the real world. And I was
a curious kid who learned for fun. But I still thought somehow that
each thing might be the intersection between two things, but to
intersect with ALL things!? Fifteen. And I bet even of the kids in
that class with me (a very small subset of kids at our school) most of
them didn't take that 'news' from that course.
If I put this on a webpage, I'm going to call it How Learning Works (a
rant by Sandra Dodd, inspired by an educated educator)
The way learning works with unschooling is that each thing a child
learns--each bit or piece of knowledge--becomes a part of his cohesive
whole. He doesn't have "strands of education." He has learning.
Real, honest, whole, personal learning.
Sandra
Jenny Cyphers
"In the real world, sometimes you have to complete a task you don't
love."
That's one of my favorite pro-school arguments of all times! It implies that
all kids in school do tasks they don't love. I'd even go so far as to say, MOST
of what kids do in school, kids don't love. That certainly doesn't cause me to
want my kids in school, daily doing things they don't love.
I LOVE that my kids can do things they love everyday. Doing things you love
helps a person find happy contentedness in one's life! It's a gift I'm giving
my children! There are plenty of things they do that they dislike for the sake
of something greater. THAT is intrinsic motivation and if the draw of the
something "greater" isn't good enough, they choose not to do it and opt for
other things.
How is that NOT what people do for real, in real life? People who go ahead and
do what they please in life often suffer guilt and shame complexes from feeling
as if they aren't measuring up. I'm so glad my kids don't suffer from that,
they just don't. They do what they do and act the best they can, not to avoid
some yucky task they don't love.
Such nonsense! As if kids in school don't try to avoid those tasks in so many
creative ways!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
love."
That's one of my favorite pro-school arguments of all times! It implies that
all kids in school do tasks they don't love. I'd even go so far as to say, MOST
of what kids do in school, kids don't love. That certainly doesn't cause me to
want my kids in school, daily doing things they don't love.
I LOVE that my kids can do things they love everyday. Doing things you love
helps a person find happy contentedness in one's life! It's a gift I'm giving
my children! There are plenty of things they do that they dislike for the sake
of something greater. THAT is intrinsic motivation and if the draw of the
something "greater" isn't good enough, they choose not to do it and opt for
other things.
How is that NOT what people do for real, in real life? People who go ahead and
do what they please in life often suffer guilt and shame complexes from feeling
as if they aren't measuring up. I'm so glad my kids don't suffer from that,
they just don't. They do what they do and act the best they can, not to avoid
some yucky task they don't love.
Such nonsense! As if kids in school don't try to avoid those tasks in so many
creative ways!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen James
>This reminds me of my son who is 7 and loves, loves, loves all things
> The way learning works with unschooling is that each thing a child
> learns--each bit or piece of knowledge--becomes a part of his cohesive
> whole. He doesn't have "strands of education." He has learning.
> Real, honest, whole, personal learning.
>
computer. My husband asked my son if he had pulled up the blankets on his
bed, and my son simply and confidently answered "Yes, dad. I edited my
bed." All things interconnected--"real, honest, whole and personal" for
sure. :)
~Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Sandra this is hilarious and completely untrue of course! I am still
howling, except for the sad fact that this is widely believed. I am glad you
put this quote in a post...
<<"Overcoming adversity or mastering challenging, unliked concepts
builds self-confidence and self-esteem, says Bell. She also wonders if
unschooled kids would learn bits and pieces of knowledge, but perhaps
never integrate the strands of education into a cohesive whole. As a
former teacher and school principal, she argues children often need an
educated educator to help link everything together so they are
prepared to go out into the world.">>
My kids challenge themselves all the time to master games, or to climb
higher. That is how they learn what they find interesting--persistence and
investigation. How silly that adversity or challenge must be foisted on
children in the form of "unliked" concepts. My kids don't change subjects
every 30 minutes, so they get to see how things are connected.
I remember when Rowan was in school a teacher explained that he couldn't
consider Rowan's science paper as a source of his English mark. English
marks came from writing English papers. My smart ass comment included, the
question "was Rowan's science paper written in Latin"? Why couldn't it be
used to judge his ability to formulate sentences and discuss ideas?
I guess that there educated educator must of known something I didn't:-)
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
howling, except for the sad fact that this is widely believed. I am glad you
put this quote in a post...
<<"Overcoming adversity or mastering challenging, unliked concepts
builds self-confidence and self-esteem, says Bell. She also wonders if
unschooled kids would learn bits and pieces of knowledge, but perhaps
never integrate the strands of education into a cohesive whole. As a
former teacher and school principal, she argues children often need an
educated educator to help link everything together so they are
prepared to go out into the world.">>
My kids challenge themselves all the time to master games, or to climb
higher. That is how they learn what they find interesting--persistence and
investigation. How silly that adversity or challenge must be foisted on
children in the form of "unliked" concepts. My kids don't change subjects
every 30 minutes, so they get to see how things are connected.
I remember when Rowan was in school a teacher explained that he couldn't
consider Rowan's science paper as a source of his English mark. English
marks came from writing English papers. My smart ass comment included, the
question "was Rowan's science paper written in Latin"? Why couldn't it be
used to judge his ability to formulate sentences and discuss ideas?
I guess that there educated educator must of known something I didn't:-)
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I guess that there educated educator must of known something I
didn't:-)-=-
Well one thing they know is that they are not paid to have ANYthing to
do with subjects in which they are not certified to teach. And
probably they could get in trouble with the union for touching extra
work.
And wouldn't it seem like... you know,... *cheating* for one set of
writing to "count" twice? If they let one kid do it, wouldn't they
"have to" let everybody do it?
Yeah. High level thinking by educated educationalist educators in
educational institutions.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
didn't:-)-=-
Well one thing they know is that they are not paid to have ANYthing to
do with subjects in which they are not certified to teach. And
probably they could get in trouble with the union for touching extra
work.
And wouldn't it seem like... you know,... *cheating* for one set of
writing to "count" twice? If they let one kid do it, wouldn't they
"have to" let everybody do it?
Yeah. High level thinking by educated educationalist educators in
educational institutions.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>"In the real world, sometimes you have to complete a task you don't love."<<<Translation: in the real (as opposed to the "unreal"?) world, you may
be forced at times to do things you don't enjoy.
Oh what a great ad for school. ;) (sarcasm intended)
~Katherine
On 9/13/10, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> There's a mention of WWII in this article:
>
> http://www.calgaryherald.com/health/Unschooled+kids+call+shots/3456534/story.html
>
> It's a good article on unschooling that was in the Calgary Herald,
> August 29 2010.
> The unschooling parts are really great. The quotes from
> "experts" (always included in articles to allegedly 'balance' them)
> had a couple that made me hoot:
>
> "In the real world, sometimes you have to complete a task you don't
> love."
>
> I would love to have been there when those words were uttered to say
> "Could you name one?" Years of practice on this list and reading
> Joyce's really great analogies have me all ready to show ANYone that
> they're making choices, not living in "have to" world.
>
>
> This one is baffling. It has no quotes, so maybe the fumble was in
> the paraphrasing by the writer, but this is a VERY odd thing for
> someone to have thought, said or reported on:
>
> "Overcoming adversity or mastering challenging, unliked concepts
> builds self-confidence and self-esteem, says Bell. She also wonders if
> unschooled kids would learn bits and pieces of knowledge, but perhaps
> never integrate the strands of education into a cohesive whole. As a
> former teacher and school principal, she argues children often need an
> educated educator to help link everything together so they are
> prepared to go out into the world."
>
> An "educated educator"??!! I suppose it's education that makes one an
> educated educator.
>
> But aside from that, it wasn't until I took a humanities class when I
> was 15 that ANYONE in school suggested to me that art and history and
> music and science were indistinguishable in the real world. And I was
> a curious kid who learned for fun. But I still thought somehow that
> each thing might be the intersection between two things, but to
> intersect with ALL things!? Fifteen. And I bet even of the kids in
> that class with me (a very small subset of kids at our school) most of
> them didn't take that 'news' from that course.
>
> If I put this on a webpage, I'm going to call it How Learning Works (a
> rant by Sandra Dodd, inspired by an educated educator)
> The way learning works with unschooling is that each thing a child
> learns--each bit or piece of knowledge--becomes a part of his cohesive
> whole. He doesn't have "strands of education." He has learning.
> Real, honest, whole, personal learning.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Sandra wrote:
<<And wouldn't it seem like... you know,... *cheating* for one set of
writing to "count" twice? If they let one kid do it, wouldn't they
"have to" let everybody do it?>>
Our discussion didn't get that far. He was just too perplexed by the idea
that science papers were in English. I mean Rowan was studying French at
the time and this teacher considered Math, English, French and Science
separate subjects.
He couldn't connect the fact that except writing done in French, he had
loads of English writing with which he could assess Rowan's ability to write
in English if that were truly the problem. The problem was Rowan wasn't
doing enough English assignments, but the teacher would never have put it
this way because he knew I would have asked why English needed to be taught
as its own subject, and by this point in the year he knew I would have loads
of scholarly articles to show that this didn't need to be the case and that
would have meant me writing letters to superintendents and him having to
speak to his union, again.
Funny you should mention unions Sandra :-)
His union had already advised him never to be alone with me, because my
husband wrote a letter to a school superintendent complaining about this
teacher's behaviour. As you can imagine Rowan left to homeschool shortly
after this conversation. In many cases the school would have fought to keep
the pupil, but Rowan came with this really annoying mother and they were
willing to cut their funding losses.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<And wouldn't it seem like... you know,... *cheating* for one set of
writing to "count" twice? If they let one kid do it, wouldn't they
"have to" let everybody do it?>>
Our discussion didn't get that far. He was just too perplexed by the idea
that science papers were in English. I mean Rowan was studying French at
the time and this teacher considered Math, English, French and Science
separate subjects.
He couldn't connect the fact that except writing done in French, he had
loads of English writing with which he could assess Rowan's ability to write
in English if that were truly the problem. The problem was Rowan wasn't
doing enough English assignments, but the teacher would never have put it
this way because he knew I would have asked why English needed to be taught
as its own subject, and by this point in the year he knew I would have loads
of scholarly articles to show that this didn't need to be the case and that
would have meant me writing letters to superintendents and him having to
speak to his union, again.
Funny you should mention unions Sandra :-)
His union had already advised him never to be alone with me, because my
husband wrote a letter to a school superintendent complaining about this
teacher's behaviour. As you can imagine Rowan left to homeschool shortly
after this conversation. In many cases the school would have fought to keep
the pupil, but Rowan came with this really annoying mother and they were
willing to cut their funding losses.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 9/13/2010 4:49 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
Honesty Policy." It says that you cannot turn in the same paper for two
different classes without the permission of both professors. I tell my
students that if they can write one paper that works for two different
classes that I'm thrilled because it means they are seeing the
connections and that they should try to choose a topic that will let
them do that. But - they do have to ask the other professor, too, and
most of them don't allow it. There are a few others who think like I do.
-pam
> And wouldn't it seem like... you know,... *cheating* for one set ofWhere I teach there is an official school policy, part of the "Academic
> writing to "count" twice? If they let one kid do it, wouldn't they
> "have to" let everybody do it?
Honesty Policy." It says that you cannot turn in the same paper for two
different classes without the permission of both professors. I tell my
students that if they can write one paper that works for two different
classes that I'm thrilled because it means they are seeing the
connections and that they should try to choose a topic that will let
them do that. But - they do have to ask the other professor, too, and
most of them don't allow it. There are a few others who think like I do.
-pam
dola dasgupta-banerji
Doing and always completing things even if one does not LOVE it. Please i
want to scream my head off when ever I hear this. And since I am unschooling
I get to hear this often.
If to live in the real world meant just that then we would have to put up
with so many things we do not love and turn into lunatics and neurotics. No
wonder the world is gone all crazy.
It is like telling people stay in a relationship even if you do not LOVE
that person. Stay in a job even if you do not LOVE doing it. Stay in a house
even it has leaking roofs and termites crawling all over your furniture.
The world things like this because most people are governed by false notions
of security, which they feel comes from external factors. False notions of
financial security, marital security, relationship security, security for
the future and stuff.
The day people start living in the here and now, this belief that "One must
finish and do things one does not LOVE", will go.
But living in the moment is the toughest things to do. A lot of inner work
is needed for this kind of existential living.
I hope I am making some sense. It is often very clear inside me. may not be
able to express so well though.
Dola.
want to scream my head off when ever I hear this. And since I am unschooling
I get to hear this often.
If to live in the real world meant just that then we would have to put up
with so many things we do not love and turn into lunatics and neurotics. No
wonder the world is gone all crazy.
It is like telling people stay in a relationship even if you do not LOVE
that person. Stay in a job even if you do not LOVE doing it. Stay in a house
even it has leaking roofs and termites crawling all over your furniture.
The world things like this because most people are governed by false notions
of security, which they feel comes from external factors. False notions of
financial security, marital security, relationship security, security for
the future and stuff.
The day people start living in the here and now, this belief that "One must
finish and do things one does not LOVE", will go.
But living in the moment is the toughest things to do. A lot of inner work
is needed for this kind of existential living.
I hope I am making some sense. It is often very clear inside me. may not be
able to express so well though.
Dola.
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:15 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> There's a mention of WWII in this article:
>
>
> http://www.calgaryherald.com/health/Unschooled+kids+call+shots/3456534/story.html
>
> It's a good article on unschooling that was in the Calgary Herald,
> August 29 2010.
> The unschooling parts are really great. The quotes from
> "experts" (always included in articles to allegedly 'balance' them)
> had a couple that made me hoot:
>
> "In the real world, sometimes you have to complete a task you don't
> love."
>
> I would love to have been there when those words were uttered to say
> "Could you name one?" Years of practice on this list and reading
> Joyce's really great analogies have me all ready to show ANYone that
> they're making choices, not living in "have to" world.
>
> This one is baffling. It has no quotes, so maybe the fumble was in
> the paraphrasing by the writer, but this is a VERY odd thing for
> someone to have thought, said or reported on:
>
> "Overcoming adversity or mastering challenging, unliked concepts
> builds self-confidence and self-esteem, says Bell. She also wonders if
> unschooled kids would learn bits and pieces of knowledge, but perhaps
> never integrate the strands of education into a cohesive whole. As a
> former teacher and school principal, she argues children often need an
> educated educator to help link everything together so they are
> prepared to go out into the world."
>
> An "educated educator"??!! I suppose it's education that makes one an
> educated educator.
>
> But aside from that, it wasn't until I took a humanities class when I
> was 15 that ANYONE in school suggested to me that art and history and
> music and science were indistinguishable in the real world. And I was
> a curious kid who learned for fun. But I still thought somehow that
> each thing might be the intersection between two things, but to
> intersect with ALL things!? Fifteen. And I bet even of the kids in
> that class with me (a very small subset of kids at our school) most of
> them didn't take that 'news' from that course.
>
> If I put this on a webpage, I'm going to call it How Learning Works (a
> rant by Sandra Dodd, inspired by an educated educator)
> The way learning works with unschooling is that each thing a child
> learns--each bit or piece of knowledge--becomes a part of his cohesive
> whole. He doesn't have "strands of education." He has learning.
> Real, honest, whole, personal learning.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
"In the real world, sometimes you have to complete a task you don't
love."
Last night Linnaea did the dishes. It was the first time she's done them since
she was little. She was very conscientious about doing them, making sure each
dish and each piece of cutlery were absolutely clean. She asked if she could do
the dishes and I said yes and I dried as she washed and changed the water when
she thought it was too grey to actually clean anymore dishes. She didn't have to
complete it. She's not awake right now, but I bet you she'd say she enjoyed
doing the dishes. It was fun to watch her play with the bubbles as the sink
refilled. It was fun to be with her, on her roller skates, with her very damp
shirt from where the water overflowed a bit, having a good time in the warm and
bright kitchen.
By 10 it was rare for me to enjoy doing the dishes. But I often enjoy doing them
now.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
love."
Last night Linnaea did the dishes. It was the first time she's done them since
she was little. She was very conscientious about doing them, making sure each
dish and each piece of cutlery were absolutely clean. She asked if she could do
the dishes and I said yes and I dried as she washed and changed the water when
she thought it was too grey to actually clean anymore dishes. She didn't have to
complete it. She's not awake right now, but I bet you she'd say she enjoyed
doing the dishes. It was fun to watch her play with the bubbles as the sink
refilled. It was fun to be with her, on her roller skates, with her very damp
shirt from where the water overflowed a bit, having a good time in the warm and
bright kitchen.
By 10 it was rare for me to enjoy doing the dishes. But I often enjoy doing them
now.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
I just read something about cheating that 73 percent of 20 000 first year
Canadian post-secondary students admitted they cheated in high school, and
53 per cent admitted to plagiarism.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/family-and-relationships/cheaters-do-prosper-but-are-they-psychologically-ill/article1704646/
The fact that cheating is handing in the same paper for two different
courses at one place is a little funny.
I wrote papers for others through high school. My friends thought it was
funny that papers I wrote for others generally received higher grades than
ones I wrote for myself. I noted this oddity and it is something that
informs my unschooling family's practices, I admit.
A paper I wrote for a final year English class in high school received five
marks lower than one I wrote for the girl in front of me. When I went to
the teacher to complain, which I'd never done before it was precisely
because I *knew* my paper was better. I had hand written hers, because it
began as me proofreading what she had already written. After I'd liquid
papered in corrections and re-written what she had, I offered suggestions
for the unfinished third. She asked me if I could just write it. It was on
a different topic than mine. I had an hour before class and so I completed
her paper, then fixed her footnotes and bibliography for her. I used a
different pen, and the handwriting didn't match of course in the corrected
sections and final third ;-) I asked her for her pen, but she didn't have
the one she'd had the previous evening. My paper was done on computer and
neatly printed and in a pretty file folder, while hers was hastily
stapled. We wrote essay exams and my essay exams received the highest
mark in the class, in all my history and English classes. Yet, this teacher
was oblivious to this when she issued marks. It never occurred to her that
the other girl hadn't written her own paper. We went through my paper line
by line and in the end she raised my grade because she couldn't explain my
grade and I had a lot of fun reviewing with her what I though was good. I
mean I had enjoyed my word choices, my examples and the flow of the language
as I wrote, so I really was happy to share that with her. For her part the
teacher was bored with my explaining how much I felt the subjunctive worked
to give the paper a gender free approach and was less awkward than using "he
or she" and I didn't need to break a grammatical rule by choosing "she" as
my universal pronoun.
I remember one girl asking me for my study secrets, as she was a straight A
student and the essay exams dragged her mark down. I told her not to
memorize information or cram, but just write about the material she knew and
understand. I still remember the baffled look on her face. I never studied
for tests--I just wrote what I knew.
I did have a teacher accuse me of plagiarism once. I dared him to give me
fifteen minutes to write two paragraphs on any topic he choose. After this
I convinced him by bringing in my sources, showing him all my footnotes, and
going though the paper with a fine tooth comb with him though he raised my
grade. At this point I told him I would get one of my other teachers to
vouch for me as a good writer and he told me this was not necessary. He did
not give my paper an A or A plus. He raised my grade from an F to a B
plus, though he had just accused me of plagiarism because the writing I had
handed in was* too good to have written by a grade ten student*. Ahhh,
school.
In University I spent my first year writing papers for money. It was
accidental, as I started offering to type and proofread papers for cash.
Then I received a paper that was one long sentence, with no punctuation and
no footnotes. I helped write most of the paper, while he hung by nodding
and saying "yes, that sounds good". The paper written for a psych class, of
which I knew nothing, received an A. Soon others were knocking on my door,
cash in hand. I wrote, while in first year many second year and third year
papers, and even an essay for a student in law school. The law paper only
received a B, so she wasn't a return customer. I gave up the essay
business though I continued to help proofread essays for friends, and
occasionally "edited" papers or "punched them up a bit".
I even wrote a paper, while drunk, for someone who later became a primary
school teacher. The only person I ever told that to is my husband, and it
reinforced his commitment to unschooling. I confess I also remember that
whenever I am in a confrontation with a teacher, that some members of that
profession may have gotten there through academic *dishonesty*
I remember as I sat at her typewriter with her books and photocopies
speedily typing she marvelled at how I could just look at the information
and come up with an essay. I remarked it wasn't as much fun as starting
with a thesis and then trying to prove it, but it made for a stronger
rapidly produced essay to begin at the "proof" first and develop points
around what could be gleaned from that information. She thought it was
weird that I wrote papers for fun rather than grades.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Canadian post-secondary students admitted they cheated in high school, and
53 per cent admitted to plagiarism.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/family-and-relationships/cheaters-do-prosper-but-are-they-psychologically-ill/article1704646/
The fact that cheating is handing in the same paper for two different
courses at one place is a little funny.
I wrote papers for others through high school. My friends thought it was
funny that papers I wrote for others generally received higher grades than
ones I wrote for myself. I noted this oddity and it is something that
informs my unschooling family's practices, I admit.
A paper I wrote for a final year English class in high school received five
marks lower than one I wrote for the girl in front of me. When I went to
the teacher to complain, which I'd never done before it was precisely
because I *knew* my paper was better. I had hand written hers, because it
began as me proofreading what she had already written. After I'd liquid
papered in corrections and re-written what she had, I offered suggestions
for the unfinished third. She asked me if I could just write it. It was on
a different topic than mine. I had an hour before class and so I completed
her paper, then fixed her footnotes and bibliography for her. I used a
different pen, and the handwriting didn't match of course in the corrected
sections and final third ;-) I asked her for her pen, but she didn't have
the one she'd had the previous evening. My paper was done on computer and
neatly printed and in a pretty file folder, while hers was hastily
stapled. We wrote essay exams and my essay exams received the highest
mark in the class, in all my history and English classes. Yet, this teacher
was oblivious to this when she issued marks. It never occurred to her that
the other girl hadn't written her own paper. We went through my paper line
by line and in the end she raised my grade because she couldn't explain my
grade and I had a lot of fun reviewing with her what I though was good. I
mean I had enjoyed my word choices, my examples and the flow of the language
as I wrote, so I really was happy to share that with her. For her part the
teacher was bored with my explaining how much I felt the subjunctive worked
to give the paper a gender free approach and was less awkward than using "he
or she" and I didn't need to break a grammatical rule by choosing "she" as
my universal pronoun.
I remember one girl asking me for my study secrets, as she was a straight A
student and the essay exams dragged her mark down. I told her not to
memorize information or cram, but just write about the material she knew and
understand. I still remember the baffled look on her face. I never studied
for tests--I just wrote what I knew.
I did have a teacher accuse me of plagiarism once. I dared him to give me
fifteen minutes to write two paragraphs on any topic he choose. After this
I convinced him by bringing in my sources, showing him all my footnotes, and
going though the paper with a fine tooth comb with him though he raised my
grade. At this point I told him I would get one of my other teachers to
vouch for me as a good writer and he told me this was not necessary. He did
not give my paper an A or A plus. He raised my grade from an F to a B
plus, though he had just accused me of plagiarism because the writing I had
handed in was* too good to have written by a grade ten student*. Ahhh,
school.
In University I spent my first year writing papers for money. It was
accidental, as I started offering to type and proofread papers for cash.
Then I received a paper that was one long sentence, with no punctuation and
no footnotes. I helped write most of the paper, while he hung by nodding
and saying "yes, that sounds good". The paper written for a psych class, of
which I knew nothing, received an A. Soon others were knocking on my door,
cash in hand. I wrote, while in first year many second year and third year
papers, and even an essay for a student in law school. The law paper only
received a B, so she wasn't a return customer. I gave up the essay
business though I continued to help proofread essays for friends, and
occasionally "edited" papers or "punched them up a bit".
I even wrote a paper, while drunk, for someone who later became a primary
school teacher. The only person I ever told that to is my husband, and it
reinforced his commitment to unschooling. I confess I also remember that
whenever I am in a confrontation with a teacher, that some members of that
profession may have gotten there through academic *dishonesty*
I remember as I sat at her typewriter with her books and photocopies
speedily typing she marvelled at how I could just look at the information
and come up with an essay. I remarked it wasn't as much fun as starting
with a thesis and then trying to prove it, but it made for a stronger
rapidly produced essay to begin at the "proof" first and develop points
around what could be gleaned from that information. She thought it was
weird that I wrote papers for fun rather than grades.
Marina
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siep_1
Karen,
You just made me look very silly. I'm at my computer in a busy McDonalds and I just laughed out loud at that comment of your son's: "I edited my bed". What a hoot!! I'm going to apply that to my kitchen!!
Thank you for sharing and making me laugh!!
Thank you son for being himself!
Sybelle
You just made me look very silly. I'm at my computer in a busy McDonalds and I just laughed out loud at that comment of your son's: "I edited my bed". What a hoot!! I'm going to apply that to my kitchen!!
Thank you for sharing and making me laugh!!
Thank you son for being himself!
Sybelle
--- In [email protected], Karen James <semajrak@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > The way learning works with unschooling is that each thing a child
> > learns--each bit or piece of knowledge--becomes a part of his cohesive
> > whole. He doesn't have "strands of education." He has learning.
> > Real, honest, whole, personal learning.
> >
>
>
> This reminds me of my son who is 7 and loves, loves, loves all things
> computer. My husband asked my son if he had pulled up the blankets on his
> bed, and my son simply and confidently answered "Yes, dad. I edited my
> bed." All things interconnected--"real, honest, whole and personal" for
> sure. :)
>
> ~Karen
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
siep_1
In the UNreal world of video games Ingo often has to do repetitive or annoying tasks to get to the level he wants to be at or to buy a certain kind of armor.
So, that then proves that video games are good for him, right?
HA! Take that educated educator!
Sybelle, who loves this fun discussion. Thanks, Sandra!
So, that then proves that video games are good for him, right?
HA! Take that educated educator!
Sybelle, who loves this fun discussion. Thanks, Sandra!
--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
> >>>"In the real world, sometimes you have to complete a task you don't love."<<<
>
> Translation: in the real (as opposed to the "unreal"?) world, you may
> be forced at times to do things you don't enjoy.
>
> Oh what a great ad for school. ;) (sarcasm intended)
>
> ~Katherine
Robin Bentley
> "In the real world, sometimes you have to complete a task you don'tThis assumes that no one would choose to do anything hard or
> love."
challenging, ever. It's a very cynical view of human nature, probably
associated with sin.
In other words, we must be made to do the hard stuff because we'd
choose fun or laziness or pleasurable activities instead. And that
would be the road to hell.
I think this view permeates our culture, and people parrot it without
us realizing its origins.
Robin B.
Chris S.
When Zach was younger (12 ish) he used to say, "Easy is boring, hard
is fun!" This was usually about facing some challenge in a video game.
Chris
is fun!" This was usually about facing some challenge in a video game.
Chris
> This assumes that no one would choose to do anything hard or[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> challenging, ever. It's a very cynical view of human nature, probably
> associated with sin.
Sandra Dodd
-=- When I went to
the teacher to complain, which I'd never done before it was precisely
because I *knew* my paper was better. -=-
Relative to what the other girl had written before, what you wrote for
her probably seemed brilliant.
Compared to what you usually wrote, yours probably didn't seem
brilliant.
I like that unschoolers are so different that there's no "I *knew*
mine was better" going on amongst them. When they get opportunities
it's for a variety of factors--talent, availability, personality...
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the teacher to complain, which I'd never done before it was precisely
because I *knew* my paper was better. -=-
Relative to what the other girl had written before, what you wrote for
her probably seemed brilliant.
Compared to what you usually wrote, yours probably didn't seem
brilliant.
I like that unschoolers are so different that there's no "I *knew*
mine was better" going on amongst them. When they get opportunities
it's for a variety of factors--talent, availability, personality...
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
On 14 September 2010 12:58, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
<<Relative to what the other girl had written before, what you wrote for
her probably seemed brilliant.>>
Well, I never thought about it from that perspective-- that she was judging
me on the fact that writing came more easily to me, lol I was just really
annoyed that the paper I worked on for the other girl was on an easier
topic, that I'd done it and she was probably going to get into a better
post-secondary educational facility :-) Apart from one failing grade
that was the first time I had ever asked teachers to justify their grades
and the idea that she expected more from me never dawned on me. It seems a
bit unfair, and I'm glad my kids aren't involved in that sort of thing.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-In the UNreal world of video games Ingo often has to do repetitive
or annoying tasks to get to the level he wants to be at or to buy a
certain kind of armor.-=-
Ingo does not have to.
(Unless you mean to say you're "making him" play video games and get
that armor, I believe he's choosing to do repetitive tasks to get
something in the game.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
or annoying tasks to get to the level he wants to be at or to buy a
certain kind of armor.-=-
Ingo does not have to.
(Unless you mean to say you're "making him" play video games and get
that armor, I believe he's choosing to do repetitive tasks to get
something in the game.)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 9/14/2010 10:28 AM, Marina DeLuca-Howard wrote:
answers on all objective tests in the course and an "A" on the group
project that I did with one other girl. She got an A in the class and I
got a B. I was sure it was a mistake, so I brought it to the teacher's
attention. She said, quote --- "I expected more of you."
I filed an appeal. It took a few months and before I could have the
hearing, the teacher committed suicide. Seriously. I didn't pursue it
any further.
-pam
> Apart from one failing gradeI appealed a grade one time ever, too. I had gotten 100 percent correct
> that was the first time I had ever asked teachers to justify their grades
> and the idea that she expected more from me never dawned on me.
answers on all objective tests in the course and an "A" on the group
project that I did with one other girl. She got an A in the class and I
got a B. I was sure it was a mistake, so I brought it to the teacher's
attention. She said, quote --- "I expected more of you."
I filed an appeal. It took a few months and before I could have the
hearing, the teacher committed suicide. Seriously. I didn't pursue it
any further.
-pam