How to answer the Curriculum Question
daisygrrrl72
HI- My 5.5 year old ds and I our starting our first homeschooling group and I am dreading the "What Curriculum are you using?" question. I would prefer not to say that we unschool. Can any seasoned veterans of unschool give me some suggestions or tips to answer this question, where the asker will be satisfied and not continue to ask more questions. I live in a very small country town and it is hard to be anonymous, but I worry that people who don't understand unschooling, will just see me as negelectful.
Thanks so much.
Laura
Thanks so much.
Laura
Cara Barlow
Laura, your children are so young even it you were a traditional
homeschooler, you might not be using a curriculum yet.
I would just say to people that you aren't rushing into using a curriculum
and right now they are learning from their activities.
I also live in a small town where everyone knows us <g>. What I've found is
that when I make my daughter's environment rich and full of fun and learning
opportunities, most people can see that and they often want to join in.
Which is a whole other kettle of fish. <g>
Best wishes, Cara
Anna (14) and Molly (12)
homeschooler, you might not be using a curriculum yet.
I would just say to people that you aren't rushing into using a curriculum
and right now they are learning from their activities.
I also live in a small town where everyone knows us <g>. What I've found is
that when I make my daughter's environment rich and full of fun and learning
opportunities, most people can see that and they often want to join in.
Which is a whole other kettle of fish. <g>
Best wishes, Cara
Anna (14) and Molly (12)
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 9:58 AM, daisygrrrl72 <daisygrrrl@...> wrote:
>
>
> HI- My 5.5 year old ds and I our starting our first homeschooling group and
> I am dreading the "What Curriculum are you using?" question. I would prefer
> not to say that we unschool. Can any seasoned veterans of unschool give me
> some suggestions or tips to answer this question, where the asker will be
> satisfied and not continue to ask more questions. I live in a very small
> country town and it is hard to be anonymous, but I worry that people who
> don't understand unschooling, will just see me as negelectful.
>
> Thanks so much.
>
> Laura
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- I would prefer not to say that we unschool. Can any seasoned
veterans of unschool give me some suggestions or tips to answer this
question, where the asker will be satisfied and not continue to ask
more questions. I live in a very small country town and it is hard to
be anonymous, but I worry that people who don't understand
unschooling, will just see me as negelectful. -=-
Are you in a Bible Belt town full of fundamentalist Christians?
That would be the worst-case scenario.
But if you are, and you lie or dodge, they'll eventually see you as
worse than neglectful.
For a while, at first, you could say "We're creating our own as we
go." You could say "We haven't decided, what do you use?" and get
them talking. Maybe in the course of that talk you could say "Ah.
Yeah, we don't plan to make her... [whatever they might be bragging
about]." But brief answers, and light.
If your unschooling goes well, if you really DO things so that no one
could possibly see you as neglectful, then you will gain confidence
and before many years you should be able to say "We're unschoolers,
and it has worked out really well for us."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
veterans of unschool give me some suggestions or tips to answer this
question, where the asker will be satisfied and not continue to ask
more questions. I live in a very small country town and it is hard to
be anonymous, but I worry that people who don't understand
unschooling, will just see me as negelectful. -=-
Are you in a Bible Belt town full of fundamentalist Christians?
That would be the worst-case scenario.
But if you are, and you lie or dodge, they'll eventually see you as
worse than neglectful.
For a while, at first, you could say "We're creating our own as we
go." You could say "We haven't decided, what do you use?" and get
them talking. Maybe in the course of that talk you could say "Ah.
Yeah, we don't plan to make her... [whatever they might be bragging
about]." But brief answers, and light.
If your unschooling goes well, if you really DO things so that no one
could possibly see you as neglectful, then you will gain confidence
and before many years you should be able to say "We're unschoolers,
and it has worked out really well for us."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dana_burdick
I find that when people are asking about curriculum, it's one of those questions that, even though they asked it, they really may not want to know too much detail about what you are doing. Sometimes people are just making chit-chat, like talking about the weather. Or, they may be just checking out if they can feel good about their own curriculum/school choice. I think that everyone feels just a little insecure and what they are in effect asking is, `am I doing my best?'
So I keep that in mind when I get that kind of question. If it's a social gathering or casual meeting, I like to keep the conversation amicable, so I answer their question, but keep it light. I carefully word things so as to draw attention to what is common between us and not to what is different.
-Dana
So I keep that in mind when I get that kind of question. If it's a social gathering or casual meeting, I like to keep the conversation amicable, so I answer their question, but keep it light. I carefully word things so as to draw attention to what is common between us and not to what is different.
-Dana
--- In [email protected], "daisygrrrl72" <daisygrrrl@...> wrote:
>
> HI- My 5.5 year old ds and I our starting our first homeschooling group and I am dreading the "What Curriculum are you using?" question. I would prefer not to say that we unschool. Can any seasoned veterans of unschool give me some suggestions or tips to answer this question, where the asker will be satisfied and not continue to ask more questions. I live in a very small country town and it is hard to be anonymous, but I worry that people who don't understand unschooling, will just see me as negelectful.
>
> Thanks so much.
>
> Laura
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I find that when people are asking about curriculum, it's one of
those questions that, even though they asked it, they really may not
want to know too much detail about what you are doing. Sometimes
people are just making chit-chat, like talking about the weather.-=-
Sometimes that chit-chat is like "Where do you go to church?"
Some people live where that would NOT be one of the first questions
asked (or EVER asked).
If someone lives in the "where do you go to church" area of the world
and it's fringe (which extends pretty far out in the homeschooling
edges in the U.S.) the question can be code for "will we consider
letting our children play with yours?" "Are you one of us?"
The most acceptable answers I know of in such a case are ABeka and
Sonlight. Creationist, revisionist, sheltering things.
And within those communities there are further divisions. How do you
feel about the age at which a person should be baptized? Some people
will have nothing to do with the infant baptism type. And AS they are
all creationists (rejecting evolution), but as they are accustomed to
arguing and rejecting others based on belief, those who believe the
earth was created in six days not so long ago will reject those who
think it was created by God, but gradually, and a long time ago.
Practically Darwin. Reject.
(You could say KONOS or ATI or something but if you were doing ATI,
you wouldn't be out there socializing with those other people probably
anyway.)
So it's nice to say that it's an innocent chit-chat question, when
people ask about a curriculum, but depending who and where the person
is, it might not be innocent at all.
-=- Or, they may be just checking out if they can feel good about
their own curriculum/school choice. I think that everyone feels just a
little insecure...-=-
I take it you don't know any ABeka families. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
those questions that, even though they asked it, they really may not
want to know too much detail about what you are doing. Sometimes
people are just making chit-chat, like talking about the weather.-=-
Sometimes that chit-chat is like "Where do you go to church?"
Some people live where that would NOT be one of the first questions
asked (or EVER asked).
If someone lives in the "where do you go to church" area of the world
and it's fringe (which extends pretty far out in the homeschooling
edges in the U.S.) the question can be code for "will we consider
letting our children play with yours?" "Are you one of us?"
The most acceptable answers I know of in such a case are ABeka and
Sonlight. Creationist, revisionist, sheltering things.
And within those communities there are further divisions. How do you
feel about the age at which a person should be baptized? Some people
will have nothing to do with the infant baptism type. And AS they are
all creationists (rejecting evolution), but as they are accustomed to
arguing and rejecting others based on belief, those who believe the
earth was created in six days not so long ago will reject those who
think it was created by God, but gradually, and a long time ago.
Practically Darwin. Reject.
(You could say KONOS or ATI or something but if you were doing ATI,
you wouldn't be out there socializing with those other people probably
anyway.)
So it's nice to say that it's an innocent chit-chat question, when
people ask about a curriculum, but depending who and where the person
is, it might not be innocent at all.
-=- Or, they may be just checking out if they can feel good about
their own curriculum/school choice. I think that everyone feels just a
little insecure...-=-
I take it you don't know any ABeka families. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
>> For a while, at first, you could say "We're creating our own as weThat's sometimes also called "eclectic" and that can be a good word to use to meet other "out of the box" families if you don't have a bunch of unschoolers in your area. Some "eclectic" folks will drift more to one curriculum or other, while others will drift more to "independent study" or even unschooling - and really, the same can be said of unschooling families, especially if you're meeting other folks with younger kids.
> go."
---Meredith
Jonathan
Hello all, we have lurked here for a time as recommended and haven't
responded to any of the threads yet but have a few questions
based on where this one is heading..we have had our children
at home for 5 years, ages 15, 12 and 5, FWIW..
respectfully,
jonathan, LeAnne Wilkins and family
responded to any of the threads yet but have a few questions
based on where this one is heading..we have had our children
at home for 5 years, ages 15, 12 and 5, FWIW..
>question? are we painting a particular group with a very large brush?
> Are you in a Bible Belt town full of fundamentalist Christians?
> That would be the worst-case scenario.
>
> What does this mean? where was this even mentioned in the original
>totally agree here..if one is actually doing SOMETHING, one wouldn't seem neglectful..
>
> If your unschooling goes well, if you really DO things so that no one
> could possibly see you as neglectful, then you will gain confidence
> and before many years you should be able to say "We're unschoolers,
> and it has worked out really well for us."
>
> Sandra
>
respectfully,
jonathan, LeAnne Wilkins and family
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
dana_burdick
-=- Or, they may be just checking out if they can feel good about
their own curriculum/school choice. I think that everyone feels just a
little insecure...-=-
Either way, insecure or righteous, it's a good idea to keep the conversation light. If the person/group is too probing, it may be time to change venues or just keep the subject to the weather.
-Dana
their own curriculum/school choice. I think that everyone feels just a
little insecure...-=-
>I take it you don't know any ABeka families. :-)True, I don't. I assume you mean they would fall under the more righteous category.
Either way, insecure or righteous, it's a good idea to keep the conversation light. If the person/group is too probing, it may be time to change venues or just keep the subject to the weather.
-Dana
organicmom111
I just say 'oh we dont use one set curriculum' (around here they use abeka, etc..) or 'we're eclectic'. (And both of those things are true, so.... :) I def. try to talk about other things, or the weather if its a situation i cant leave immed. Honestly- I usually encounter these people at the grocery or at soccer practice, and really, im there for other reasons- to shop or enjoy my kids practice- so I dont like or appreciate those comments anyway. Its not the place to discuss and or debate homeschooling. I try to set a good example of but not go around talking about homeschooling(unschooling) .
--- In [email protected], "daisygrrrl72" <daisygrrrl@...> wrote:
>
> HI- My 5.5 year old ds and I our starting our first homeschooling group and I am dreading the "What Curriculum are you using?" question. I would prefer not to say that we unschool. Can any seasoned veterans of unschool give me some suggestions or tips to answer this question, where the asker will be satisfied and not continue to ask more questions. I live in a very small country town and it is hard to be anonymous, but I worry that people who don't understand unschooling, will just see me as negelectful.
>
> Thanks so much.
>
> Laura
>
Sandra Dodd
Because yahoo groups deal with every browser and mailer program ever,
and then it goes one place and is spit back out to every browser and
mailer program ever, each quote needs to be marked physically, and not
automatically. Use something like ***stars*** or ---dashes--- (or I
use this -=-little trill-=-) to make it clear.
-=- Are you in a Bible Belt town full of fundamentalist Christians?
That would be the worst-case scenario.
-=- What does this mean? where was this even mentioned in the original
question? are we painting a particular group with a very large brush
-=-
I added the quotes, because in the e-mail that came in, the second
statement appeared to be stuck in the middle of something I wrote. I
wrote the first part, but not the second part.
The first part means that in the case of someone asking what
curriculum one uses, the worst case scenario would be living in a
Bible belt town of fundamentalist Christians. (If there are any
terms in that someone doesn't understand, put them into google; it's
nothing I made up.)
It was not mentioned in the original, but it was totally disregarded
in one of the responses, where someone answered in such a way as to
disregard the very definite possibility that someone in a small town
who was afraid to say "unschooling" could likely be living where the
other people were fundamentalist Christian homeschoolers.
This is a lot of explanation for something I thought was pretty clear
the first time.
-=-are we painting a particular group with a very large brush-=-
"We"?
If you want to accuse me of something, the pronoun to use would be
"you."
If you would like to clarify your objection, that's fine.
If you wish to suggest I don't know what I'm talking about, that's not
quite as good for the discussion.
http://sandradodd.com/christian.html
That's very brief.
I posted this yesterday; it is NOT related to the worst case scenario
above.
http://unschooling.blogspot.com/2010/08/christian-unschooling.html
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and then it goes one place and is spit back out to every browser and
mailer program ever, each quote needs to be marked physically, and not
automatically. Use something like ***stars*** or ---dashes--- (or I
use this -=-little trill-=-) to make it clear.
-=- Are you in a Bible Belt town full of fundamentalist Christians?
That would be the worst-case scenario.
-=- What does this mean? where was this even mentioned in the original
question? are we painting a particular group with a very large brush
-=-
I added the quotes, because in the e-mail that came in, the second
statement appeared to be stuck in the middle of something I wrote. I
wrote the first part, but not the second part.
The first part means that in the case of someone asking what
curriculum one uses, the worst case scenario would be living in a
Bible belt town of fundamentalist Christians. (If there are any
terms in that someone doesn't understand, put them into google; it's
nothing I made up.)
It was not mentioned in the original, but it was totally disregarded
in one of the responses, where someone answered in such a way as to
disregard the very definite possibility that someone in a small town
who was afraid to say "unschooling" could likely be living where the
other people were fundamentalist Christian homeschoolers.
This is a lot of explanation for something I thought was pretty clear
the first time.
-=-are we painting a particular group with a very large brush-=-
"We"?
If you want to accuse me of something, the pronoun to use would be
"you."
If you would like to clarify your objection, that's fine.
If you wish to suggest I don't know what I'm talking about, that's not
quite as good for the discussion.
http://sandradodd.com/christian.html
That's very brief.
I posted this yesterday; it is NOT related to the worst case scenario
above.
http://unschooling.blogspot.com/2010/08/christian-unschooling.html
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
>The link to info about HSLDA is broken, so wait for up-to-date info,
> http://sandradodd.com/christian.html
> That's very brief.
if anyone's interested.
Robin B.
Sandra Dodd
-=-The link to info about HSLDA is broken, so wait for up-to-date info,
if anyone's interested.-=-
http://hsislegal.com/
That has what used to be at that link, and some other things.
This is way too political a stance for my tastes, but the link to the
Cheryl Seelhof case would be of interest to anyone curious about "the
division" (or in case they think it's imaginary):
http://web.archive.org/web/20070608091635/http://www.gentlespirit.com/GS6n03/v6n03b.htm
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
if anyone's interested.-=-
http://hsislegal.com/
That has what used to be at that link, and some other things.
This is way too political a stance for my tastes, but the link to the
Cheryl Seelhof case would be of interest to anyone curious about "the
division" (or in case they think it's imaginary):
http://web.archive.org/web/20070608091635/http://www.gentlespirit.com/GS6n03/v6n03b.htm
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TokeliT
It's almost become a political question, hasn't it? But I Do believe it IS important to bring unschooling "into the light." It shouldn't be a dirty little secret, when it's main thrust is to enlighten children's lives for a lifetime of learning, loving, living in a positive way. How could that be a "bad" thing? I know that great ideas are often unpopular ideas at the genesis of their acceptance into society. The key is to slowly, carefully, educate the public about the benefits of child-led learning, through quotes from John Taylor Gatto, John Holt, Fitzenrieter, Sandra Dodd, and a host of other unschooling philosophers. This is a growing movement of parents who trust and respect their children (and thus want their children to grow up trusting and respecting their own ideas, instincts and interests). If you have read as many books as I have on unschooling, and that is why you are doing it, then don't be afraid to tell the truth about it. Tell your homeschooling friends about authors you'd suggest to them. Send a website their way. Explain the reasons WHY we unschool and what GOOD it can do a child to grow up "unprocessed." You know those cute little stories about accidental learning we tell our husbands at night so they can be on board? Share them with your homeschooling group so they can "learn" more about it too. I truly believe in my heart if more people would try this approach to learning and parenting, we'd live in a better world. We'd have a world of kids who were confident, innovative, creative, compassionate, and perhaps not so conditioned into accepting warmongering all over the globe. They'd believe in their own ideas because they'd have always come to them themselves. They'd come up with logical solutions and be brave enough to implement them because they'd learned how to trust their own ideas and not follow the heard. As we unschool our children, we have to be brave enough to unschool ourselves.
Tokeli
Tokeli
--- In [email protected], "daisygrrrl72" <daisygrrrl@...> wrote:
>
> HI- My 5.5 year old ds and I our starting our first homeschooling group and I am dreading the "What Curriculum are you using?" question. I would prefer not to say that we unschool. Can any seasoned veterans of unschool give me some suggestions or tips to answer this question, where the asker will be satisfied and not continue to ask more questions. I live in a very small country town and it is hard to be anonymous, but I worry that people who don't understand unschooling, will just see me as negelectful.
>
> Thanks so much.
>
> Laura
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-It's almost become a political question, hasn't it?-=-
It has been a political question for over twenty years. One happy
advantage to the more recent phenomenon of unschoolers-only lists,
sites and conferences is that someone can unschool without knowing
that, unless she lives in the Bible Belt or chooses to associate
regularly with Christian-curriculum-using homeschoolers.
I think the "It" in this was intended to be "Unschooling."
-=-It shouldn't be a dirty little secret, when it's main thrust is to
enlighten children's lives for a lifetime of learning, loving, living
in a positive way. How could that be a "bad" thing?-=-
I don't like the idea of people prevaricating about unschooling in
general, but the question was asked specifically about a small town in
which it didn't seem to be a good idea to say "unschooling."
Personally, I think that if within a couple of years of starting to
unschool, one isn't confident and courageous enough to say "We're
unschoolers," they're not doing it very well. And I *know* for a
fact, proven many, many times, that choosing "eclectic" and saying
"some unschooling" in ANY way leads to some unschooling/eclectic,
which leads soon to no unschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/doit
It is possible for unschooling to fail.
-=-This is a growing movement of parents who trust and respect their
children (and thus want their children to grow up trusting and
respecting their own ideas, instincts and interests). -=-
Yes, there is. Even parents whose kids are in school seem to be
edging toward being more compassionate and friendly and direct with
their children. MANY parents, but not all. Some cling to old ways,
specifically because they're old. Many of them won't have computers
and internet, because they're not old. There are probably more
families using a curriculum and not having a computer (getting their
supplies by mailorder from flyers at church or through print magazines
such as The Home Schooling Digest of The Old Schoolhouse Magazine)
than there are unschoolers.
-=- Tell your homeschooling friends about authors you'd suggest to
them. Send a website their way. Explain the reasons WHY we unschool
and what GOOD it can do a child to grow up "unprocessed." -=
If your homeschooling friends are fundamentalist Christians using a
revisionist, creationist curriculum and you do any of that, you might
as well say "We worship Satan." To those homeschoolers, they are
homeschooling because the schools are not Biblical, because the
schools push multiculturalism and don't condemn homosexuality. They
are homeschooling to keep their children away from people like me, and
sites like mine.
-=-You know those cute little stories about accidental learning we
tell our husbands at night so they can be on board? Share them with
your homeschooling group so they can "learn" more about it too. I
truly believe in my heart if more people would try this approach to
learning and parenting, we'd live in a better world. -=-
I'm guessing you're new to this. There are other stories, not so
cute, about state homeschooling conventions and yahoo lists and
newsletters blowing in two because someone wanted to tell their cute
unschooling stories.
-=- I truly believe in my heart if more people would try this approach
to learning and parenting, we'd live in a better world. We'd have a
world of kids who were confident, innovative, creative, compassionate,
and perhaps not so conditioned into accepting warmongering all over
the globe. -=-
There are MANY people unschooling, and resources like this list make
that possible. The same years of experience that make this list
useful for people who want to learn to unschool better are alongside
experience with the downsides. There's no advantage in a flowers-and-
butterflies picture of the world and what unschooling can accomplish.
Unschooling can change YOUR life, YOUR family's life, if you can
persuade your partner and relatives that it's a good idea. Don't even
start to try to persuade the entire world. Your kids need your
attention and the whole world doesn't want this.
-=-They'd believe in their own ideas because they'd have always come
to them themselves.-=-
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thy own
understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy
path." (Proverbs 3: 5-6)
That's one of the cornerstones of Christian homeschooling, of
fundamentalist Christianity. It's okay if most people on this group
never heard of it, but ALL Christian homeschoolers know it. The kids
can probably recite it and find it in the Bible within seconds.
Something a person "comes to themselves" is likely to be false, or
inspired by Satan.
I'm not making this stuff up.
Sandra
It has been a political question for over twenty years. One happy
advantage to the more recent phenomenon of unschoolers-only lists,
sites and conferences is that someone can unschool without knowing
that, unless she lives in the Bible Belt or chooses to associate
regularly with Christian-curriculum-using homeschoolers.
I think the "It" in this was intended to be "Unschooling."
-=-It shouldn't be a dirty little secret, when it's main thrust is to
enlighten children's lives for a lifetime of learning, loving, living
in a positive way. How could that be a "bad" thing?-=-
I don't like the idea of people prevaricating about unschooling in
general, but the question was asked specifically about a small town in
which it didn't seem to be a good idea to say "unschooling."
Personally, I think that if within a couple of years of starting to
unschool, one isn't confident and courageous enough to say "We're
unschoolers," they're not doing it very well. And I *know* for a
fact, proven many, many times, that choosing "eclectic" and saying
"some unschooling" in ANY way leads to some unschooling/eclectic,
which leads soon to no unschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/doit
It is possible for unschooling to fail.
-=-This is a growing movement of parents who trust and respect their
children (and thus want their children to grow up trusting and
respecting their own ideas, instincts and interests). -=-
Yes, there is. Even parents whose kids are in school seem to be
edging toward being more compassionate and friendly and direct with
their children. MANY parents, but not all. Some cling to old ways,
specifically because they're old. Many of them won't have computers
and internet, because they're not old. There are probably more
families using a curriculum and not having a computer (getting their
supplies by mailorder from flyers at church or through print magazines
such as The Home Schooling Digest of The Old Schoolhouse Magazine)
than there are unschoolers.
-=- Tell your homeschooling friends about authors you'd suggest to
them. Send a website their way. Explain the reasons WHY we unschool
and what GOOD it can do a child to grow up "unprocessed." -=
If your homeschooling friends are fundamentalist Christians using a
revisionist, creationist curriculum and you do any of that, you might
as well say "We worship Satan." To those homeschoolers, they are
homeschooling because the schools are not Biblical, because the
schools push multiculturalism and don't condemn homosexuality. They
are homeschooling to keep their children away from people like me, and
sites like mine.
-=-You know those cute little stories about accidental learning we
tell our husbands at night so they can be on board? Share them with
your homeschooling group so they can "learn" more about it too. I
truly believe in my heart if more people would try this approach to
learning and parenting, we'd live in a better world. -=-
I'm guessing you're new to this. There are other stories, not so
cute, about state homeschooling conventions and yahoo lists and
newsletters blowing in two because someone wanted to tell their cute
unschooling stories.
-=- I truly believe in my heart if more people would try this approach
to learning and parenting, we'd live in a better world. We'd have a
world of kids who were confident, innovative, creative, compassionate,
and perhaps not so conditioned into accepting warmongering all over
the globe. -=-
There are MANY people unschooling, and resources like this list make
that possible. The same years of experience that make this list
useful for people who want to learn to unschool better are alongside
experience with the downsides. There's no advantage in a flowers-and-
butterflies picture of the world and what unschooling can accomplish.
Unschooling can change YOUR life, YOUR family's life, if you can
persuade your partner and relatives that it's a good idea. Don't even
start to try to persuade the entire world. Your kids need your
attention and the whole world doesn't want this.
-=-They'd believe in their own ideas because they'd have always come
to them themselves.-=-
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thy own
understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy
path." (Proverbs 3: 5-6)
That's one of the cornerstones of Christian homeschooling, of
fundamentalist Christianity. It's okay if most people on this group
never heard of it, but ALL Christian homeschoolers know it. The kids
can probably recite it and find it in the Bible within seconds.
Something a person "comes to themselves" is likely to be false, or
inspired by Satan.
I'm not making this stuff up.
Sandra
plaidpanties666
"TokeliT" <tokeli@...> wrote:
Its one thing to post a link and a blurb, on facebook, say, that other people can ignore if they want, another thing to give too much information at a social gathering. Its rude.
Adults don't need someone else's secret learning agenda any more than kids do. Tell those cute stories because they're cute. Tell sweet stories to keep the tone of the conversation light and positive. Be upbeat and warm and friendly. Wait until you're asked to give advice.
I have a part-time job where I work with a homeschooling dad. We talk about allllll sorts of things and have a bunch of things in common. He's on the "eclectic" end of homeschooling - independent study sorts of stuff, but still very much "study". Not an unschooler. So I didn't mind telling him we were also "eclectic" but a little less formal than what he was doing - no details, although I think by now I've said "unschool" but really casually. We each talk about our kids, and I keep my stories light and positive.
Last month he had a big "issue" with his dd - 12yo, wanting to wear make-up. He didn't want her to wear make-up and at first forbade it, then tried to shame her out of it. Finally he asked my opinion. He wanted mine because he sees me as self-confident and comfortable in my own skin and would like his dd to be that way, too. I told him that I'd worn make-up at 12, talked about kids needing space to try things out and "try on" different ways of being sometimes. He thought about that. He wasn't sure he believed it all, but he told his dd she could wear make-up if she wanted and the next time we worked together thanked me for my input. He thinks it helped his relationship with his kid.
That's big. Doing something that lets a relationship get a little better, that's huge in this world that sets parents and kids at odds most of the time.
> The key is to slowly, carefullyPart of going slowly and carefully, though, involves knowing why someone is asking in the first place - if that person isn't actively searching for something like unschooling then you run the risk of putting that person off, by seeming like another loud mouthed, pushy, judgemental unschooler, with no sense of personal boundaries. People like that pushed me away from unschooling when I was still homeschooling. I did a little of that when I was new to unschooling, all fired up with enthusiasm - but I don't want to push grownups buttons any more than I do my kids'. I'd rather set myself up for better relationships First, and see where that goes.
>>educate the public about the benefits of child-led learningTrying to teach adults who aren't interested in what you have to say isn't any better than trying to teach children and has very similar results - people shut down and become resentful. I certainly did when I was homeschooling, and I was an Advocate of child-led learning... just the "managed" kind, teachable moments and all that stuff. I wasn't interested in hearing more than that.
Its one thing to post a link and a blurb, on facebook, say, that other people can ignore if they want, another thing to give too much information at a social gathering. Its rude.
>>You know those cute little stories about accidental learning we tell our husbands at night so they can be on board? Share them with your homeschooling group so they can "learn" more about it too.********************
Adults don't need someone else's secret learning agenda any more than kids do. Tell those cute stories because they're cute. Tell sweet stories to keep the tone of the conversation light and positive. Be upbeat and warm and friendly. Wait until you're asked to give advice.
I have a part-time job where I work with a homeschooling dad. We talk about allllll sorts of things and have a bunch of things in common. He's on the "eclectic" end of homeschooling - independent study sorts of stuff, but still very much "study". Not an unschooler. So I didn't mind telling him we were also "eclectic" but a little less formal than what he was doing - no details, although I think by now I've said "unschool" but really casually. We each talk about our kids, and I keep my stories light and positive.
Last month he had a big "issue" with his dd - 12yo, wanting to wear make-up. He didn't want her to wear make-up and at first forbade it, then tried to shame her out of it. Finally he asked my opinion. He wanted mine because he sees me as self-confident and comfortable in my own skin and would like his dd to be that way, too. I told him that I'd worn make-up at 12, talked about kids needing space to try things out and "try on" different ways of being sometimes. He thought about that. He wasn't sure he believed it all, but he told his dd she could wear make-up if she wanted and the next time we worked together thanked me for my input. He thinks it helped his relationship with his kid.
That's big. Doing something that lets a relationship get a little better, that's huge in this world that sets parents and kids at odds most of the time.
Jenny Cyphers
***Unschooling can change YOUR life, YOUR family's life, if you can
persuade your partner and relatives that it's a good idea. Don't even
start to try to persuade the entire world. Your kids need your
attention and the whole world doesn't want this.***
That's the key right there. People on unschooling lists can't even agree to
what unschooling is and they WANT to unschool. Everyone else is doing whatever
else they are doing because it's either what they want to do and are convinced
that it is the best way for their family, OR they feel as if the status quo of
public schooling is just fine, thank you very much.
I must focus on MY family and create happy existences for them otherwise
unschooling will fail. There are people who spend a lot of time cheerleading
for unschooling. I know how that feels. The older my kids get and the more I
want to keep my family a family that stays together, the more time goes into
that than the cheerleading.
It's so easy to ignore what's right in front of you and put other things right
in front of you and spend your time on that. Eventually the kids are bored and
wanting to go back to school, and maybe the the significant other in your life
feels neglected too and things spiral out of control really quickly.
Unschooling isn't easy, it's simple, but not really easy. It takes a LOT of
time and effort to keep a household running smoothly, adding the responsibility
of educating your own kids into that, and it's even more time consuming.
As your kids get older and they branch out into the larger world, they will
encounter less and less homeschoolers, let alone unschoolers. Most people don't
get unschooling. Kids really should live in the world at large and be around
many many others. I'm grateful for the few unschooling friends that we have,
but our whole family needs to get along with those that don't. That includes
school at homers, even the religious ones, especially if those are the only kids
available.
We did girl scouts for a number of years and it was a homeschooling troop. Most
of the families involved were religious school at homers. We got along with all
of those families and I still run into some of them here and there at various
homeschooling park days or the library or grocery store. Our kids grew apart,
but it didn't have anything to do with our homeschooling style, more about
changing interests. As long as we were willing to get along, we got along! You
can't change another person's reaction or opinion of you or unschooling, but you
can find ways to get along and part of that can be about keeping your mouth shut
when needed.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
persuade your partner and relatives that it's a good idea. Don't even
start to try to persuade the entire world. Your kids need your
attention and the whole world doesn't want this.***
That's the key right there. People on unschooling lists can't even agree to
what unschooling is and they WANT to unschool. Everyone else is doing whatever
else they are doing because it's either what they want to do and are convinced
that it is the best way for their family, OR they feel as if the status quo of
public schooling is just fine, thank you very much.
I must focus on MY family and create happy existences for them otherwise
unschooling will fail. There are people who spend a lot of time cheerleading
for unschooling. I know how that feels. The older my kids get and the more I
want to keep my family a family that stays together, the more time goes into
that than the cheerleading.
It's so easy to ignore what's right in front of you and put other things right
in front of you and spend your time on that. Eventually the kids are bored and
wanting to go back to school, and maybe the the significant other in your life
feels neglected too and things spiral out of control really quickly.
Unschooling isn't easy, it's simple, but not really easy. It takes a LOT of
time and effort to keep a household running smoothly, adding the responsibility
of educating your own kids into that, and it's even more time consuming.
As your kids get older and they branch out into the larger world, they will
encounter less and less homeschoolers, let alone unschoolers. Most people don't
get unschooling. Kids really should live in the world at large and be around
many many others. I'm grateful for the few unschooling friends that we have,
but our whole family needs to get along with those that don't. That includes
school at homers, even the religious ones, especially if those are the only kids
available.
We did girl scouts for a number of years and it was a homeschooling troop. Most
of the families involved were religious school at homers. We got along with all
of those families and I still run into some of them here and there at various
homeschooling park days or the library or grocery store. Our kids grew apart,
but it didn't have anything to do with our homeschooling style, more about
changing interests. As long as we were willing to get along, we got along! You
can't change another person's reaction or opinion of you or unschooling, but you
can find ways to get along and part of that can be about keeping your mouth shut
when needed.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***It's almost become a political question, hasn't it?***
I have gone to my state capitol to be another homeschool body in support of
legislation to help homeschoolers, or against some anti-homeschool legislation.
Almost always we've been the casual family in jeans, most of the families are
dressed in their Sunday best, suits and ties and dresses, hair neatly done. I
never did that because I felt that I should come as I am and let my
representatives represent me the way I am. We remained quiet and respectful and
stayed in the overflow room.
***But I Do believe it IS important to bring unschooling "into the light." It
shouldn't be a dirty little secret, when it's main thrust is to enlighten
children's lives for a lifetime of learning, loving, living in a positive
way. ***
Unschooling need not be either of brought into the light or made a dirty little
secret. It's the way we live and those that know us well, like us for who we
are, not for what method of education we use with our kids, even though it's a
huge part of who we are. Because it IS positive, people that meet us will
notice that. People that meet our kids will notice their confidence and happy
nature. If they want to know more, they ask.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have gone to my state capitol to be another homeschool body in support of
legislation to help homeschoolers, or against some anti-homeschool legislation.
Almost always we've been the casual family in jeans, most of the families are
dressed in their Sunday best, suits and ties and dresses, hair neatly done. I
never did that because I felt that I should come as I am and let my
representatives represent me the way I am. We remained quiet and respectful and
stayed in the overflow room.
***But I Do believe it IS important to bring unschooling "into the light." It
shouldn't be a dirty little secret, when it's main thrust is to enlighten
children's lives for a lifetime of learning, loving, living in a positive
way. ***
Unschooling need not be either of brought into the light or made a dirty little
secret. It's the way we live and those that know us well, like us for who we
are, not for what method of education we use with our kids, even though it's a
huge part of who we are. Because it IS positive, people that meet us will
notice that. People that meet our kids will notice their confidence and happy
nature. If they want to know more, they ask.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-As your kids get older and they branch out into the larger world,
they will
encounter less and less homeschoolers, let alone unschoolers-=-
Kirby spoke on a panel of grown unschoolers at the HSC conference last
week.
He said now he can know someone for a year or more without them
knowing he didn't go to school, and when it comes up, usually because
they're talking about school or graduation or something and ask him a
question or he says he didn't have that, then they ask, he tells them,
they're interested in the fact that they didn't know, and then they
all go about their business.
Some have found out because he had a copy of The Big Book of
Unschooling on his desk. One co-worker said "The author has the same
last name as you do," and Kirby said it wasn't a coincidence, and
flipped through to show a photo of himself.
The idea that unschoolers will change the world for having been
unschooled is probably true, but it will be gradual change over
generations, not one big sparkly change within the next 20 years.
It's also possible that they will dissolve into the culture at large
and as school becomes less solid on the horizon of the future, they
will be seen as some of the early proof that schools weren't
necessary, and there will be more options, perhaps, for our
grandchildren and great grandchildren.
But what I do know for certain is that I have three children who grew
up without going to school. They're grown. They're whole and heathy
and kind and thoughtful. They each have in various ways and various
times volunteered time and energy to reassure and to help other
unschoolers. They've been understanding of my desire to do that,
too. My husband, too. He's glad there are others who appreciate that
our family's years doing this have been shared publicly--in person, in
writing, with visitors to the house, and at conferences.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
they will
encounter less and less homeschoolers, let alone unschoolers-=-
Kirby spoke on a panel of grown unschoolers at the HSC conference last
week.
He said now he can know someone for a year or more without them
knowing he didn't go to school, and when it comes up, usually because
they're talking about school or graduation or something and ask him a
question or he says he didn't have that, then they ask, he tells them,
they're interested in the fact that they didn't know, and then they
all go about their business.
Some have found out because he had a copy of The Big Book of
Unschooling on his desk. One co-worker said "The author has the same
last name as you do," and Kirby said it wasn't a coincidence, and
flipped through to show a photo of himself.
The idea that unschoolers will change the world for having been
unschooled is probably true, but it will be gradual change over
generations, not one big sparkly change within the next 20 years.
It's also possible that they will dissolve into the culture at large
and as school becomes less solid on the horizon of the future, they
will be seen as some of the early proof that schools weren't
necessary, and there will be more options, perhaps, for our
grandchildren and great grandchildren.
But what I do know for certain is that I have three children who grew
up without going to school. They're grown. They're whole and heathy
and kind and thoughtful. They each have in various ways and various
times volunteered time and energy to reassure and to help other
unschoolers. They've been understanding of my desire to do that,
too. My husband, too. He's glad there are others who appreciate that
our family's years doing this have been shared publicly--in person, in
writing, with visitors to the house, and at conferences.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-***But I Do believe it IS important to bring unschooling "into the
light." It
shouldn't be a dirty little secret, when it's main thrust is to
enlighten
children's lives for a lifetime of learning, loving, living in a
positive
way. ***-=-
This is a heck of a lot of light:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://sandradodd.com/addlightandstir
(Just add light and stir)
ANY unschooler who wants to sit quietly in the dark has the right to
do that. NO one has the right to shove anyone out on stage and demand
that they perform or reveal more of themselves than they want to
reveal. Living quiet lives is not a crime. Not everyone needs to be
a cheerleader, a missionary or a rally organizer.
Each unschooler can decide whether to read about it online, whether to
write (in private, on lists, on blogs, to magazines), whether to speak
(in person one-on-one, in meetings to groups, maybe at conferences).
But no one should feel they're keeping a secret (let alone a "dirty
little secret") if they're not comfortable describing what they do.
At La Leche League meetings, women nurse babies in front of each
other. If someone doesn't want to do that, she isn't forced to. If
someone doesn't want to go to those meetings, she doesn't have to.
There are hundreds of people on this list who read but don't write.
That's absolutely fine.
There are people who came to my talks last weekend in Sacramento and
didn't make eye contact. They listened, maybe took notes, and left
when it was over. Others came and spoke with me. A few cried, and
expressed regrets. No one had to do any of that. I didn't have to
speak at all. I didn't have to hang around afterwards.
Just as we let our children decide whether to look, speak, write,
sing, jump or sleep, we need to let others have space or privacy or
opportunity or anonymity as they prefer.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
light." It
shouldn't be a dirty little secret, when it's main thrust is to
enlighten
children's lives for a lifetime of learning, loving, living in a
positive
way. ***-=-
This is a heck of a lot of light:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://sandradodd.com/addlightandstir
(Just add light and stir)
ANY unschooler who wants to sit quietly in the dark has the right to
do that. NO one has the right to shove anyone out on stage and demand
that they perform or reveal more of themselves than they want to
reveal. Living quiet lives is not a crime. Not everyone needs to be
a cheerleader, a missionary or a rally organizer.
Each unschooler can decide whether to read about it online, whether to
write (in private, on lists, on blogs, to magazines), whether to speak
(in person one-on-one, in meetings to groups, maybe at conferences).
But no one should feel they're keeping a secret (let alone a "dirty
little secret") if they're not comfortable describing what they do.
At La Leche League meetings, women nurse babies in front of each
other. If someone doesn't want to do that, she isn't forced to. If
someone doesn't want to go to those meetings, she doesn't have to.
There are hundreds of people on this list who read but don't write.
That's absolutely fine.
There are people who came to my talks last weekend in Sacramento and
didn't make eye contact. They listened, maybe took notes, and left
when it was over. Others came and spoke with me. A few cried, and
expressed regrets. No one had to do any of that. I didn't have to
speak at all. I didn't have to hang around afterwards.
Just as we let our children decide whether to look, speak, write,
sing, jump or sleep, we need to let others have space or privacy or
opportunity or anonymity as they prefer.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lorrie
Hi, I have never posted on this group before,but I felt I should. I am a fundmental Christian from a large Baptist church in the south. When people ask me about curriculum I Just tell them the truth, we dont use it unless the kids ask. Yeah, sometimes mouths drop open, but I just tell them we learn useing real stuff and real life experiences. They usually say " Wow I didnt know you could do that" or "is it legal?" Sometimes I say "do you think they used curriculum in bible days?" Some of my friends are starting to see things my way. You might say I am "converting" them. I am thankful to be a part of this group.-- Lorrie
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Because yahoo groups deal with every browser and mailer program ever,
> and then it goes one place and is spit back out to every browser and
> mailer program ever, each quote needs to be marked physically, and not
> automatically. Use something like ***stars*** or ---dashes--- (or I
> use this -=-little trill-=-) to make it clear.
>
>
> -=- Are you in a Bible Belt town full of fundamentalist Christians?
> That would be the worst-case scenario.
>
> -=- What does this mean? where was this even mentioned in the original
> question? are we painting a particular group with a very large brush
> -=-
>
> I added the quotes, because in the e-mail that came in, the second
> statement appeared to be stuck in the middle of something I wrote. I
> wrote the first part, but not the second part.
>
> The first part means that in the case of someone asking what
> curriculum one uses, the worst case scenario would be living in a
> Bible belt town of fundamentalist Christians. (If there are any
> terms in that someone doesn't understand, put them into google; it's
> nothing I made up.)
>
> It was not mentioned in the original, but it was totally disregarded
> in one of the responses, where someone answered in such a way as to
> disregard the very definite possibility that someone in a small town
> who was afraid to say "unschooling" could likely be living where the
> other people were fundamentalist Christian homeschoolers.
>
> This is a lot of explanation for something I thought was pretty clear
> the first time.
>
> -=-are we painting a particular group with a very large brush-=-
>
> "We"?
> If you want to accuse me of something, the pronoun to use would be
> "you."
>
> If you would like to clarify your objection, that's fine.
> If you wish to suggest I don't know what I'm talking about, that's not
> quite as good for the discussion.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/christian.html
> That's very brief.
>
> I posted this yesterday; it is NOT related to the worst case scenario
> above.
> http://unschooling.blogspot.com/2010/08/christian-unschooling.html
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=- I just tell them we learn useing real stuff and real life
experiences. They usually say " Wow I didnt know you could do that" or
"is it legal?" Sometimes I say "do you think they used curriculum in
bible days?"-=-
This sounds like a great answer.
Even among secular unschoolers, some people are afraid of "real stuff"
and "real life experiences," though. It's good to gauge the audience.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
experiences. They usually say " Wow I didnt know you could do that" or
"is it legal?" Sometimes I say "do you think they used curriculum in
bible days?"-=-
This sounds like a great answer.
Even among secular unschoolers, some people are afraid of "real stuff"
and "real life experiences," though. It's good to gauge the audience.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
NCMama
-=- But I Do believe it IS important to bring unschooling "into the light." ... The key is to slowly, carefully, educate the public about the benefits of child-led learning -=-
I appreciate your enthusiasm! As others have pointed out, it shouldn't be up to every unschooler to publicize unschooling. Not only does the wrong impression get made if the family doesn't have lots of experience and some discernment (remember the news story of the unschooler who had her son at a bar at 10 o'clock at night?), but most radical unschoolers' focus is on their family. I used to feel guilty I didn't do more, didn't blog specifically about unschooling, etc., then I realized what's most important right now is the time I spend with my kids. I take time when I have it to answer posts on the couple of lists I'm on, and I've left a comment or two on a news story or article, but I don't need to do more right now. When the boys aren't around as much as they get older, I may feel called to do more, but right now, we're building their lives.
There's nothing more important that I do.
Caren
I appreciate your enthusiasm! As others have pointed out, it shouldn't be up to every unschooler to publicize unschooling. Not only does the wrong impression get made if the family doesn't have lots of experience and some discernment (remember the news story of the unschooler who had her son at a bar at 10 o'clock at night?), but most radical unschoolers' focus is on their family. I used to feel guilty I didn't do more, didn't blog specifically about unschooling, etc., then I realized what's most important right now is the time I spend with my kids. I take time when I have it to answer posts on the couple of lists I'm on, and I've left a comment or two on a news story or article, but I don't need to do more right now. When the boys aren't around as much as they get older, I may feel called to do more, but right now, we're building their lives.
There's nothing more important that I do.
Caren
Myrna Doshier
Wow. I am new to this site and have been reading quietly as suggested for over a
month. I have only one child. A ten year old that my husband and I are
unschooling. I am an older mother (just turned 50) from So CA. I knew kids that
were unschooled when I was a kid. This makes me laugh. It is like the movie Eat
Pray Love. So 70s. LOL None of this is new.
My 95 year old grandma and my daughter read to each other sometimes at night on
skype before bed. Grandma lives in Mississippi and could not be more proud of us
for listening to that small still voice of God and not give our child up to the
Government. Or a private school. If the Lord trusted me enough to knit her
together in my womb He trusts us enough to teacher her all that she needs to
know using His world. We believe we were led by the Lord and never worry about
stuff like credentials as we know that He does not call upon the qualified...He
qualifies the called. So no. We are not homeschooling to hide her from anyone.
(I am sorry I don't know what category you are in personally and don't really
care. As I am not God and leave the judging to Him as I am taught to do in His
word.) Or any group.
How would I hide her from any one group? I was (closed shop) an antique dealer
with all kinds of customers. I now am a Interior Stylist. With sewers,
and furniture stores, and painters, fabric stores. We go to several spas (at my
age a micro-derm is a must). Hair salons. LA Museum. Art Museums. Missions
(every one in CA and AZ). Our Nutritionist/DC office. Trader Joe's. San Diego
Zoo. Wild animal park. Napa. Pismo. Palm Springs. Indian Tribes. Apple Farmers.
and on and on. I don't know any home-schoolers/unschoolers-eclectic teachers
that actually stay at home. I am not alone in my thinking as we are in a
Home-school group at my church that includes 70 families just on the email list.
Anyone may come to the meetings unless they are just there to criticize God. We
are there to support each other. (There were 90 people at my house at
our Valentines day party.) Our children are enlightened and so are we. Even
though we continue to be judged and ridiculed for believing that Jesus died for
us. And yes we are very conservative which only means, mind your own business. I
think we can find middle ground with that one. LOL. We didn't come to this
ourselves. So your scripture is out of context. As all Christians do...we pray
about it and were answered by the Lord.
As for Satin...Really, we never give him credit.
Gods love and mine
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, August 28, 2010 1:02:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: How to answer the Curriculum Question
-=-It's almost become a political question, hasn't it?-=-
It has been a political question for over twenty years. One happy
advantage to the more recent phenomenon of unschoolers-only lists,
sites and conferences is that someone can unschool without knowing
that, unless she lives in the Bible Belt or chooses to associate
regularly with Christian-curriculum-using homeschoolers.
I think the "It" in this was intended to be "Unschooling."
-=-It shouldn't be a dirty little secret, when it's main thrust is to
enlighten children's lives for a lifetime of learning, loving, living
in a positive way. How could that be a "bad" thing?-=-
I don't like the idea of people prevaricating about unschooling in
general, but the question was asked specifically about a small town in
which it didn't seem to be a good idea to say "unschooling."
Personally, I think that if within a couple of years of starting to
unschool, one isn't confident and courageous enough to say "We're
unschoolers," they're not doing it very well. And I *know* for a
fact, proven many, many times, that choosing "eclectic" and saying
"some unschooling" in ANY way leads to some unschooling/eclectic,
which leads soon to no unschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/doit
It is possible for unschooling to fail.
-=-This is a growing movement of parents who trust and respect their
children (and thus want their children to grow up trusting and
respecting their own ideas, instincts and interests). -=-
Yes, there is. Even parents whose kids are in school seem to be
edging toward being more compassionate and friendly and direct with
their children. MANY parents, but not all. Some cling to old ways,
specifically because they're old. Many of them won't have computers
and internet, because they're not old. There are probably more
families using a curriculum and not having a computer (getting their
supplies by mailorder from flyers at church or through print magazines
such as The Home Schooling Digest of The Old Schoolhouse Magazine)
than there are unschoolers.
-=- Tell your homeschooling friends about authors you'd suggest to
them. Send a website their way. Explain the reasons WHY we unschool
and what GOOD it can do a child to grow up "unprocessed." -=
If your homeschooling friends are fundamentalist Christians using a
revisionist, creationist curriculum and you do any of that, you might
as well say "We worship Satan." To those homeschoolers, they are
homeschooling because the schools are not Biblical, because the
schools push multiculturalism and don't condemn homosexuality. They
are homeschooling to keep their children away from people like me, and
sites like mine.
-=-You know those cute little stories about accidental learning we
tell our husbands at night so they can be on board? Share them with
your homeschooling group so they can "learn" more about it too. I
truly believe in my heart if more people would try this approach to
learning and parenting, we'd live in a better world. -=-
I'm guessing you're new to this. There are other stories, not so
cute, about state homeschooling conventions and yahoo lists and
newsletters blowing in two because someone wanted to tell their cute
unschooling stories.
-=- I truly believe in my heart if more people would try this approach
to learning and parenting, we'd live in a better world. We'd have a
world of kids who were confident, innovative, creative, compassionate,
and perhaps not so conditioned into accepting warmongering all over
the globe. -=-
There are MANY people unschooling, and resources like this list make
that possible. The same years of experience that make this list
useful for people who want to learn to unschool better are alongside
experience with the downsides. There's no advantage in a flowers-and-
butterflies picture of the world and what unschooling can accomplish.
Unschooling can change YOUR life, YOUR family's life, if you can
persuade your partner and relatives that it's a good idea. Don't even
start to try to persuade the entire world. Your kids need your
attention and the whole world doesn't want this.
-=-They'd believe in their own ideas because they'd have always come
to them themselves.-=-
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thy own
understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy
path." (Proverbs 3: 5-6)
That's one of the cornerstones of Christian homeschooling, of
fundamentalist Christianity. It's okay if most people on this group
never heard of it, but ALL Christian homeschoolers know it. The kids
can probably recite it and find it in the Bible within seconds.
Something a person "comes to themselves" is likely to be false, or
inspired by Satan.
I'm not making this stuff up.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
month. I have only one child. A ten year old that my husband and I are
unschooling. I am an older mother (just turned 50) from So CA. I knew kids that
were unschooled when I was a kid. This makes me laugh. It is like the movie Eat
Pray Love. So 70s. LOL None of this is new.
My 95 year old grandma and my daughter read to each other sometimes at night on
skype before bed. Grandma lives in Mississippi and could not be more proud of us
for listening to that small still voice of God and not give our child up to the
Government. Or a private school. If the Lord trusted me enough to knit her
together in my womb He trusts us enough to teacher her all that she needs to
know using His world. We believe we were led by the Lord and never worry about
stuff like credentials as we know that He does not call upon the qualified...He
qualifies the called. So no. We are not homeschooling to hide her from anyone.
(I am sorry I don't know what category you are in personally and don't really
care. As I am not God and leave the judging to Him as I am taught to do in His
word.) Or any group.
How would I hide her from any one group? I was (closed shop) an antique dealer
with all kinds of customers. I now am a Interior Stylist. With sewers,
and furniture stores, and painters, fabric stores. We go to several spas (at my
age a micro-derm is a must). Hair salons. LA Museum. Art Museums. Missions
(every one in CA and AZ). Our Nutritionist/DC office. Trader Joe's. San Diego
Zoo. Wild animal park. Napa. Pismo. Palm Springs. Indian Tribes. Apple Farmers.
and on and on. I don't know any home-schoolers/unschoolers-eclectic teachers
that actually stay at home. I am not alone in my thinking as we are in a
Home-school group at my church that includes 70 families just on the email list.
Anyone may come to the meetings unless they are just there to criticize God. We
are there to support each other. (There were 90 people at my house at
our Valentines day party.) Our children are enlightened and so are we. Even
though we continue to be judged and ridiculed for believing that Jesus died for
us. And yes we are very conservative which only means, mind your own business. I
think we can find middle ground with that one. LOL. We didn't come to this
ourselves. So your scripture is out of context. As all Christians do...we pray
about it and were answered by the Lord.
As for Satin...Really, we never give him credit.
Gods love and mine
Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, August 28, 2010 1:02:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: How to answer the Curriculum Question
-=-It's almost become a political question, hasn't it?-=-
It has been a political question for over twenty years. One happy
advantage to the more recent phenomenon of unschoolers-only lists,
sites and conferences is that someone can unschool without knowing
that, unless she lives in the Bible Belt or chooses to associate
regularly with Christian-curriculum-using homeschoolers.
I think the "It" in this was intended to be "Unschooling."
-=-It shouldn't be a dirty little secret, when it's main thrust is to
enlighten children's lives for a lifetime of learning, loving, living
in a positive way. How could that be a "bad" thing?-=-
I don't like the idea of people prevaricating about unschooling in
general, but the question was asked specifically about a small town in
which it didn't seem to be a good idea to say "unschooling."
Personally, I think that if within a couple of years of starting to
unschool, one isn't confident and courageous enough to say "We're
unschoolers," they're not doing it very well. And I *know* for a
fact, proven many, many times, that choosing "eclectic" and saying
"some unschooling" in ANY way leads to some unschooling/eclectic,
which leads soon to no unschooling.
http://sandradodd.com/doit
It is possible for unschooling to fail.
-=-This is a growing movement of parents who trust and respect their
children (and thus want their children to grow up trusting and
respecting their own ideas, instincts and interests). -=-
Yes, there is. Even parents whose kids are in school seem to be
edging toward being more compassionate and friendly and direct with
their children. MANY parents, but not all. Some cling to old ways,
specifically because they're old. Many of them won't have computers
and internet, because they're not old. There are probably more
families using a curriculum and not having a computer (getting their
supplies by mailorder from flyers at church or through print magazines
such as The Home Schooling Digest of The Old Schoolhouse Magazine)
than there are unschoolers.
-=- Tell your homeschooling friends about authors you'd suggest to
them. Send a website their way. Explain the reasons WHY we unschool
and what GOOD it can do a child to grow up "unprocessed." -=
If your homeschooling friends are fundamentalist Christians using a
revisionist, creationist curriculum and you do any of that, you might
as well say "We worship Satan." To those homeschoolers, they are
homeschooling because the schools are not Biblical, because the
schools push multiculturalism and don't condemn homosexuality. They
are homeschooling to keep their children away from people like me, and
sites like mine.
-=-You know those cute little stories about accidental learning we
tell our husbands at night so they can be on board? Share them with
your homeschooling group so they can "learn" more about it too. I
truly believe in my heart if more people would try this approach to
learning and parenting, we'd live in a better world. -=-
I'm guessing you're new to this. There are other stories, not so
cute, about state homeschooling conventions and yahoo lists and
newsletters blowing in two because someone wanted to tell their cute
unschooling stories.
-=- I truly believe in my heart if more people would try this approach
to learning and parenting, we'd live in a better world. We'd have a
world of kids who were confident, innovative, creative, compassionate,
and perhaps not so conditioned into accepting warmongering all over
the globe. -=-
There are MANY people unschooling, and resources like this list make
that possible. The same years of experience that make this list
useful for people who want to learn to unschool better are alongside
experience with the downsides. There's no advantage in a flowers-and-
butterflies picture of the world and what unschooling can accomplish.
Unschooling can change YOUR life, YOUR family's life, if you can
persuade your partner and relatives that it's a good idea. Don't even
start to try to persuade the entire world. Your kids need your
attention and the whole world doesn't want this.
-=-They'd believe in their own ideas because they'd have always come
to them themselves.-=-
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thy own
understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy
path." (Proverbs 3: 5-6)
That's one of the cornerstones of Christian homeschooling, of
fundamentalist Christianity. It's okay if most people on this group
never heard of it, but ALL Christian homeschoolers know it. The kids
can probably recite it and find it in the Bible within seconds.
Something a person "comes to themselves" is likely to be false, or
inspired by Satan.
I'm not making this stuff up.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***I am an older mother (just turned 50) from So CA.***
Well you are from So CA, that doesn't count as "the south"!
***Even
though we continue to be judged and ridiculed for believing that Jesus died for
us. And yes we are very conservative which only means, mind your own business.
I
think we can find middle ground with that one. LOL. We didn't come to this
ourselves. So your scripture is out of context. As all Christians do...we pray
about it and were answered by the Lord.***
I assume you mean this scripture:
-=-They'd believe in their own ideas because they'd have always come
to them themselves.-=-
***"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thy own
understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy
path." (Proverbs 3: 5-6)***
How exactly did she take that out of context? It means exactly what she says it
to mean, in exactly the same way in which you are using it too.
As to scriptures and context though, in every church I've been in and every
service I've experienced, scriptures are taken out of context time and time
again and interpreted by the person taking them out of context. It IS the very
nature of how the bible is used in churches.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well you are from So CA, that doesn't count as "the south"!
***Even
though we continue to be judged and ridiculed for believing that Jesus died for
us. And yes we are very conservative which only means, mind your own business.
I
think we can find middle ground with that one. LOL. We didn't come to this
ourselves. So your scripture is out of context. As all Christians do...we pray
about it and were answered by the Lord.***
I assume you mean this scripture:
-=-They'd believe in their own ideas because they'd have always come
to them themselves.-=-
***"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thy own
understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy
path." (Proverbs 3: 5-6)***
How exactly did she take that out of context? It means exactly what she says it
to mean, in exactly the same way in which you are using it too.
As to scriptures and context though, in every church I've been in and every
service I've experienced, scriptures are taken out of context time and time
again and interpreted by the person taking them out of context. It IS the very
nature of how the bible is used in churches.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
Myrna Doshier <kdoshier@...> wrote:
I was (closed shop) an antique dealer
---Meredith
> We are not homeschooling to hide her from anyone.While I can understand people wanting to stand up for their own faith, the point is that there Are people who homeschool to keep their kids away from other kids and for reasons that stem from their religious beliefs - in the part of rural TN where I live, in fact, most of the homeschoolers would prefer to keep their kids away from mine. I live in a place where "what curriculum do you use" means "because if you give the wrong answer my kids won't be playing with yours" and I've had to look very carefully for playgroups and homeschool meetups where my daughter isn't shunned as a harlot for wearing pants and my stepson a satanist for having his ear pierced. We don't even get invited to their churches - a clear snub in a part of the world where "y'all should come to our church" is as casual a statement as "try the ham salad".
> (I am sorry I don't know what category you are in personally and don't really
> care. As I am not God and leave the judging to Him as I am taught to do in His
> word.) Or any group.
I was (closed shop) an antique dealer
> with all kinds of customers. I now am a Interior Stylist. With sewers,By the standards of the small-town homeschoolers in my area, you're clearly a harlot - working? Getting your Hair Done? Jezebel. You wouldn't be invited over. Really, these are people who put women and girls in ankle-length straight skirts so they can't spread their legs too wide and sow temptation - not kidding, not even a little.
> and furniture stores, and painters, fabric stores. We go to several spas (at my
> age a micro-derm is a must). Hair salons.
---Meredith
k
I second what Sandra and Meredith wrote.
Karl, his dad and I visited a Christian family who live close by us.
Their two older boys are being homeschooled and there are two
toddlers, a boy and a girl, as well. Karl made a seemingly innocent
joke about barfing. I was the only adult nearby and the two older boys
looked shocked and glanced at me wondering what I would say. Karl
repeated the word or I wouldn't have mentioned to him that some people
don't like that word. I'm soooo glad the mom wasn't sitting right
there and heard it too. Oh my goodness. She is very against a number
of things that her boys attempt to do and is constantly on watch,
sending them to their rooms and they are spankers.
True story. Day before yesterday.
~Katherine
Karl, his dad and I visited a Christian family who live close by us.
Their two older boys are being homeschooled and there are two
toddlers, a boy and a girl, as well. Karl made a seemingly innocent
joke about barfing. I was the only adult nearby and the two older boys
looked shocked and glanced at me wondering what I would say. Karl
repeated the word or I wouldn't have mentioned to him that some people
don't like that word. I'm soooo glad the mom wasn't sitting right
there and heard it too. Oh my goodness. She is very against a number
of things that her boys attempt to do and is constantly on watch,
sending them to their rooms and they are spankers.
True story. Day before yesterday.
~Katherine
On 8/30/10, plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
> Myrna Doshier <kdoshier@...> wrote:
>> We are not homeschooling to hide her from anyone.
>> (I am sorry I don't know what category you are in personally and don't
>> really
>> care. As I am not God and leave the judging to Him as I am taught to do in
>> His
>> word.) Or any group.
>
> While I can understand people wanting to stand up for their own faith, the
> point is that there Are people who homeschool to keep their kids away from
> other kids and for reasons that stem from their religious beliefs - in the
> part of rural TN where I live, in fact, most of the homeschoolers would
> prefer to keep their kids away from mine. I live in a place where "what
> curriculum do you use" means "because if you give the wrong answer my kids
> won't be playing with yours" and I've had to look very carefully for
> playgroups and homeschool meetups where my daughter isn't shunned as a
> harlot for wearing pants and my stepson a satanist for having his ear
> pierced. We don't even get invited to their churches - a clear snub in a
> part of the world where "y'all should come to our church" is as casual a
> statement as "try the ham salad".
>
> I was (closed shop) an antique dealer
>> with all kinds of customers. I now am a Interior Stylist. With sewers,
>> and furniture stores, and painters, fabric stores. We go to several spas
>> (at my
>> age a micro-derm is a must). Hair salons.
>
> By the standards of the small-town homeschoolers in my area, you're clearly
> a harlot - working? Getting your Hair Done? Jezebel. You wouldn't be invited
> over. Really, these are people who put women and girls in ankle-length
> straight skirts so they can't spread their legs too wide and sow temptation
> - not kidding, not even a little.
>
> ---Meredith
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=- I knew kids that were unschooled when I was a kid. This makes me
laugh. It is like the movie Eat
Pray Love. So 70s. LOL None of this is new.-=-
I'd appreciate people not laughing at this list.
Unschooling might not be new, and I know there were some hippie kids
homeschooled in the 1970's, but I don't know any who didn't go to
school at some point, even the kids at the Santa Fe Free School, which
was the center of a lot of the discussion and experimentation.
-=- We believe we were led by the Lord and never worry about
stuff like credentials as we know that He does not call upon the
qualified...He
qualifies the called. So no. We are not homeschooling to hide her from
anyone.
(I am sorry I don't know what category you are in personally and don't
really
care. -=-
What "Category" I'm in personally? I'm the owner of the Always
Learning list.
If you "don't really care" about something, the polite thing to do is
probably to keep it to yourself, especially in your first post to a
group. You wouldn't walk into a party at someone's house and say "I
don't know who you are and I don't really care," to a guest or to the
hostess. But in this house, I'm the hostess.
-=-I don't know any home-schoolers/unschoolers-eclectic teachers
that actually stay at home. -=-
There are many who advocate staying home during school hours, and only
associating with others who believe as they do. Maybe not in your
group and that's fine. But your group doesn't negate the other
groups. Southern California is hardly the Bible Belt. I think people
who have never lived in the south imagine others are exaggerating when
they say they'll be asked "What church do you go to?" in the grocery
store, or at the filling station, by people who haven't asked them
anything else before that.
-=- We didn't come to this ourselves. So your scripture is out of
context. -=-
Perhaps you didn't read the entire thread. At the bottom of this e-
mail is a link that says "messages in this topic." My quotation was
cited, and referred to someone else's... wait... IN YOUR E-MAIL you
quoted my entire post, in which I quoted the paragraph to which I was
referring:
[Someone else]-=-They'd believe in their own ideas because they'd have
always come
to them themselves.-=-
[Me, objecting to the idea that all homeschoolers would be happier to
come to ideas they had come to themselves:]
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thy own
understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy
path." (Proverbs 3: 5-6)"
How is "my scripture out of context"?
-=-As all Christians do...we pray about it and were answered by the
Lord.-=-
-=-As for Satin...Really, we never give him credit.-=-
Years ago on the AOL message boards, before there was a separate
unschooling discussion area and all the homeschoolers were in the
folders and chats together, there was a Halloween when some of the
people on the list were sharing costume ideas for trick or treating,
and others on the list were quoting scary pages and sermons saying
that Halloween was devil worship, and one mom got really angry with us
and said that if our children participated in ANY way in halloween
activities that they would be WORSHIPPING SATIN.
Some people said they only worshipped tafetta or polyester, but I
don't think our accuser got the joke.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
laugh. It is like the movie Eat
Pray Love. So 70s. LOL None of this is new.-=-
I'd appreciate people not laughing at this list.
Unschooling might not be new, and I know there were some hippie kids
homeschooled in the 1970's, but I don't know any who didn't go to
school at some point, even the kids at the Santa Fe Free School, which
was the center of a lot of the discussion and experimentation.
-=- We believe we were led by the Lord and never worry about
stuff like credentials as we know that He does not call upon the
qualified...He
qualifies the called. So no. We are not homeschooling to hide her from
anyone.
(I am sorry I don't know what category you are in personally and don't
really
care. -=-
What "Category" I'm in personally? I'm the owner of the Always
Learning list.
If you "don't really care" about something, the polite thing to do is
probably to keep it to yourself, especially in your first post to a
group. You wouldn't walk into a party at someone's house and say "I
don't know who you are and I don't really care," to a guest or to the
hostess. But in this house, I'm the hostess.
-=-I don't know any home-schoolers/unschoolers-eclectic teachers
that actually stay at home. -=-
There are many who advocate staying home during school hours, and only
associating with others who believe as they do. Maybe not in your
group and that's fine. But your group doesn't negate the other
groups. Southern California is hardly the Bible Belt. I think people
who have never lived in the south imagine others are exaggerating when
they say they'll be asked "What church do you go to?" in the grocery
store, or at the filling station, by people who haven't asked them
anything else before that.
-=- We didn't come to this ourselves. So your scripture is out of
context. -=-
Perhaps you didn't read the entire thread. At the bottom of this e-
mail is a link that says "messages in this topic." My quotation was
cited, and referred to someone else's... wait... IN YOUR E-MAIL you
quoted my entire post, in which I quoted the paragraph to which I was
referring:
[Someone else]-=-They'd believe in their own ideas because they'd have
always come
to them themselves.-=-
[Me, objecting to the idea that all homeschoolers would be happier to
come to ideas they had come to themselves:]
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thy own
understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy
path." (Proverbs 3: 5-6)"
How is "my scripture out of context"?
-=-As all Christians do...we pray about it and were answered by the
Lord.-=-
-=-As for Satin...Really, we never give him credit.-=-
Years ago on the AOL message boards, before there was a separate
unschooling discussion area and all the homeschoolers were in the
folders and chats together, there was a Halloween when some of the
people on the list were sharing costume ideas for trick or treating,
and others on the list were quoting scary pages and sermons saying
that Halloween was devil worship, and one mom got really angry with us
and said that if our children participated in ANY way in halloween
activities that they would be WORSHIPPING SATIN.
Some people said they only worshipped tafetta or polyester, but I
don't think our accuser got the joke.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
A response was received to part of my post, but as it appended and
entire very long post, I deleted it. There was nothing deleted except
the long post.
( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/57107 )
[message #57,107; the group will be nine years old in November]
===========================
From: Myrna Doshier <kdoshier@...>
Date: August 30, 2010 7:39:41 PM MDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: How to answer the Curriculum Question
My mistake. I thought I was a part of this group and could laugh at
our burdens
although not new.
===========================
The purpose of the group is to discuss unschooling, not to belittle
unschooling, nor to belittle the list.
Anyone wanting to be useful part of the group should read here and at
the linked pages:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
entire very long post, I deleted it. There was nothing deleted except
the long post.
( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/57107 )
[message #57,107; the group will be nine years old in November]
===========================
From: Myrna Doshier <kdoshier@...>
Date: August 30, 2010 7:39:41 PM MDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: How to answer the Curriculum Question
My mistake. I thought I was a part of this group and could laugh at
our burdens
although not new.
===========================
The purpose of the group is to discuss unschooling, not to belittle
unschooling, nor to belittle the list.
Anyone wanting to be useful part of the group should read here and at
the linked pages:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bean
*****Years ago on the AOL message boards, before there was a separate
unschooling discussion area and all the homeschoolers were in the
folders and chats together, there was a Halloween when some of the people on
the list were sharing costume ideas for trick or treating,
and others on the list were quoting scary pages and sermons saying that
Halloween was devil worship, and one mom got really angry with us
and said that if our children participated in ANY way in halloween
activities that they would be WORSHIPPING SATIN.*****
*****Some people said they only worshipped tafetta or polyester, but I don't
think our accuser got the joke.*****
Back when I was in college, I student-taught at a lab school on campus. In
attendance were preschool children - one-third children from the community
(who were of a variety of cultural and ethnic backgrounds), one-third
children of the professors who taught at the college (again, a variety of
backgrounds), and one-third children of the low-wage employees of the
college (all of whom were Haitian). That year, the school was planning a
huge Halloween bash - the children were going to come in costume, there was
going to be a parade. it was going to be quite the celebration.
One of the mothers of one of the children, a quiet Haitian woman who worked
cleaning the dorm bathrooms and never spoke or made eye contact with the
teachers - not even me, a young student teacher - requested a meeting with
the school director. She explained to the Director that if the school went
forward with the celebration, the Haitian families would be forced by
circumstance to find alternate care for their children that day. Because in
the Haitian culture with which these families identified, Halloween was not
a day to fool around with - not a day to celebrate. It has religious
meaning. It is tied in with voodoo. It's not something to be taken lightly
(I'm not near expert enough to explain the details - but I'll guess you get
the picture). It was very serious business for this woman - serious enough
for her to step out of her comfort zone and ask to be heard. And respected.
Despite her non-mainstream beliefs.
The Director called a staff meeting. She asked what people thought should
be done. All the staff (and student-staff) agreed that it would be
inexcusable to hold a celebration that would not only exclude, but insult, a
full third of the children and families served by the school.
Halloween came and went that year - with no costumes, parade, or party at
the school. The children who celebrated Halloween did it on their own
"turf" - and the children who didn't, well, didn't. What could have been an
awkward, difficult situation became a non-issue, because people chose
Tolerance and not Righteousness or Belittling or Name Calling or any other
choice that's out there. We the Halloween-celebrating weren't Satanists and
they the non-celebrating weren't Religious Fanatics. A little Tolerance,
and everybody "won."
The lesson I took from that has stayed with me always. Just because someone
doesn't do something my way, it doesn't make them wrong. And just because
someone isn't with the majority, it doesn't make them bad. As unschoolers,
I would think we would be well aware of what it's like to be outside the
mainstream. And I, for one, choose Tolerance when faced with or dealing
with someone else whose ideas or beliefs or customs or interests or whatever
differ from mine. That Haitian woman all those years ago wasn't Wrong
because she believed something I don't even understand - she was just
Different than me. Fundamentalist Christians aren't wrong because they
believe what they believe. They don't see it my way - I don't see it
theirs. But I find no joy or power or anything else in pointing out how
right I am and how wrong they are. I don't need to point it out at all.
After all, maybe my way isn't the right way either.
I saw a little blip of film once and the message was "I'm different, you're
different, we're all ok." I think a little of that sort of thinking goes a
long way. And yes, I understand that one of the things about some
Fundamentalist Christians is that they would very much like me (and people
like me) to think their way. And that gets on some people's nerves. And it
makes the Us vs Them thing certainly not any better, and probably worse. But
I don't fault them for that either. It's just the way they believe (some of
them - not all - I don't like to generalize - just like I would never assert
that all Haitians believe what that mom believed). Religions fail if they
can't get (and keep) new members. I choose not to be a member - but I also
choose not to criticize those who do choose that for themselves. Tolerance.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooling discussion area and all the homeschoolers were in the
folders and chats together, there was a Halloween when some of the people on
the list were sharing costume ideas for trick or treating,
and others on the list were quoting scary pages and sermons saying that
Halloween was devil worship, and one mom got really angry with us
and said that if our children participated in ANY way in halloween
activities that they would be WORSHIPPING SATIN.*****
*****Some people said they only worshipped tafetta or polyester, but I don't
think our accuser got the joke.*****
Back when I was in college, I student-taught at a lab school on campus. In
attendance were preschool children - one-third children from the community
(who were of a variety of cultural and ethnic backgrounds), one-third
children of the professors who taught at the college (again, a variety of
backgrounds), and one-third children of the low-wage employees of the
college (all of whom were Haitian). That year, the school was planning a
huge Halloween bash - the children were going to come in costume, there was
going to be a parade. it was going to be quite the celebration.
One of the mothers of one of the children, a quiet Haitian woman who worked
cleaning the dorm bathrooms and never spoke or made eye contact with the
teachers - not even me, a young student teacher - requested a meeting with
the school director. She explained to the Director that if the school went
forward with the celebration, the Haitian families would be forced by
circumstance to find alternate care for their children that day. Because in
the Haitian culture with which these families identified, Halloween was not
a day to fool around with - not a day to celebrate. It has religious
meaning. It is tied in with voodoo. It's not something to be taken lightly
(I'm not near expert enough to explain the details - but I'll guess you get
the picture). It was very serious business for this woman - serious enough
for her to step out of her comfort zone and ask to be heard. And respected.
Despite her non-mainstream beliefs.
The Director called a staff meeting. She asked what people thought should
be done. All the staff (and student-staff) agreed that it would be
inexcusable to hold a celebration that would not only exclude, but insult, a
full third of the children and families served by the school.
Halloween came and went that year - with no costumes, parade, or party at
the school. The children who celebrated Halloween did it on their own
"turf" - and the children who didn't, well, didn't. What could have been an
awkward, difficult situation became a non-issue, because people chose
Tolerance and not Righteousness or Belittling or Name Calling or any other
choice that's out there. We the Halloween-celebrating weren't Satanists and
they the non-celebrating weren't Religious Fanatics. A little Tolerance,
and everybody "won."
The lesson I took from that has stayed with me always. Just because someone
doesn't do something my way, it doesn't make them wrong. And just because
someone isn't with the majority, it doesn't make them bad. As unschoolers,
I would think we would be well aware of what it's like to be outside the
mainstream. And I, for one, choose Tolerance when faced with or dealing
with someone else whose ideas or beliefs or customs or interests or whatever
differ from mine. That Haitian woman all those years ago wasn't Wrong
because she believed something I don't even understand - she was just
Different than me. Fundamentalist Christians aren't wrong because they
believe what they believe. They don't see it my way - I don't see it
theirs. But I find no joy or power or anything else in pointing out how
right I am and how wrong they are. I don't need to point it out at all.
After all, maybe my way isn't the right way either.
I saw a little blip of film once and the message was "I'm different, you're
different, we're all ok." I think a little of that sort of thinking goes a
long way. And yes, I understand that one of the things about some
Fundamentalist Christians is that they would very much like me (and people
like me) to think their way. And that gets on some people's nerves. And it
makes the Us vs Them thing certainly not any better, and probably worse. But
I don't fault them for that either. It's just the way they believe (some of
them - not all - I don't like to generalize - just like I would never assert
that all Haitians believe what that mom believed). Religions fail if they
can't get (and keep) new members. I choose not to be a member - but I also
choose not to criticize those who do choose that for themselves. Tolerance.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-but I also choose not to criticize those who do choose that for
themselves. Tolerance.-=-
If someone's going to be self-righteous, they should spell Satan
correctly.
The original questioner might not even live in the Bible Belt. I
guessed that because she wrote this:
-=-HI- My 5.5 year old ds and I our starting our first homeschooling
group and I am
dreading the "What Curriculum are you using?" question. I would prefer
not to
say that we unschool. Can any seasoned veterans of unschool give me some
suggestions or tips to answer this question, where the asker will be
satisfied
and not continue to ask more questions. I live in a very small country
town and
it is hard to be anonymous, but I worry that people who don't understand
unschooling, will just see me as negelectful.-=-
Her concern was that the homeschoolers in her small country town would
be intolerant.
If you have input for her about that, the discussion can certainly
continue.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
themselves. Tolerance.-=-
If someone's going to be self-righteous, they should spell Satan
correctly.
The original questioner might not even live in the Bible Belt. I
guessed that because she wrote this:
-=-HI- My 5.5 year old ds and I our starting our first homeschooling
group and I am
dreading the "What Curriculum are you using?" question. I would prefer
not to
say that we unschool. Can any seasoned veterans of unschool give me some
suggestions or tips to answer this question, where the asker will be
satisfied
and not continue to ask more questions. I live in a very small country
town and
it is hard to be anonymous, but I worry that people who don't understand
unschooling, will just see me as negelectful.-=-
Her concern was that the homeschoolers in her small country town would
be intolerant.
If you have input for her about that, the discussion can certainly
continue.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]