Unschooling Groups
joanne.lopers
I am looking for some suggestions from others who have been part of unschooling groups in their areas on how to help make those groups attractive to other unschoolers. Also, maybe stories on what did not work so pitfalls can be avoided.
Sometimes there are situations where people say they are unschoolers but then are talking about lesson plans or treating their children in less than unschoolish ways and I am afraid it gives the wrong impression to new families. Also, some suggestions on how to handle teasing or unkind behaviour within the group.
To be clear, I am not the moderator of our local group and I am still changing and growing as an unschooler myself. I am looking for help from the perspective of a member not a moderator. I would like to see the group grow and it seems to be at a stand still right now, although that could be because of the hot summer.
We do do somethings that are fun like bringing hoola hoops or having a water gun day. Looking for ideas to add some spice to the group too.
There is also a lack of older children. How can you keep park days interesting for them?
Joanne
Sometimes there are situations where people say they are unschoolers but then are talking about lesson plans or treating their children in less than unschoolish ways and I am afraid it gives the wrong impression to new families. Also, some suggestions on how to handle teasing or unkind behaviour within the group.
To be clear, I am not the moderator of our local group and I am still changing and growing as an unschooler myself. I am looking for help from the perspective of a member not a moderator. I would like to see the group grow and it seems to be at a stand still right now, although that could be because of the hot summer.
We do do somethings that are fun like bringing hoola hoops or having a water gun day. Looking for ideas to add some spice to the group too.
There is also a lack of older children. How can you keep park days interesting for them?
Joanne
Sandra Dodd
I was involved in a local weekly meet-up group for many years. My
answers won't help you much, but I'll offer them because honestly,
maybe it's the help you'll need.
-=-Sometimes there are situations where people say they are
unschoolers but then are talking about lesson plans or treating their
children in less than unschoolish ways and I am afraid it gives the
wrong impression to new families. -=-
Ours was called "The Goof Group." We had paper handouts and each one
said the group was to play, not to discuss curriculum.
I know people put descriptions on yahoo lists and such, but I also
know people can join groups and participate without ever seeing those
descriptions. :-/
-=-Also, some suggestions on how to handle teasing or unkind behaviour
within the group.=-
Say this when anyone's not nice: "Please be nice."
If that doesn't work, go to the mom and say "I've asked [kid's name]
to be nicer; could you talk to him?"
Or "Looks like [kid's name] is [doing whatever] again; could you go
over and mediate that?"
The most important word in there is "again."
Let her know it's not the first time.
If she doesn't stand up to go and mediate that, then it seems to be
flat-out permission for anyone else to do so in their own way.
-=-To be clear, I am not the moderator of our local group and I am
still changing and growing as an unschooler myself. I am looking for
help from the perspective of a member not a moderator. I would like to
see the group grow and it seems to be at a stand still right now,
although that could be because of the hot summer.-=-
Groups are organisms. They are born, they grow, and they die.
-=-We do do somethings that are fun like bringing hoola hoops or
having a water gun day. Looking for ideas to add some spice to the
group too.-=-
Look up any lists of activities for kids online or in books. Don't
get attached to the outcome.
==There is also a lack of older children. How can you keep park days
interesting for them?-=-
Can't.
There's bribery, request for them to help with younger kids (for pay,
if you have to), request for them to go to help the other families get
to meet some older kids (the last few years, that's the only reason
Kirby went). Card games and board games didn't work well because the
wind blew.
The larger the group, the more likely older kids will be there but it
is absolutely impossible to guarantee that every child who shows up
will find friends or be included in every activity. That's part of
the downfall of the peace of such groups. Parents imagine that every
child will be equally included, but that only happens if the other
kids are robots without preferences and friendships. Once friendships
develop (the goal of most families who take kids to park days), there
are the inevitable preferences and disagreements and joy and heartbreak.
Don't depend on the group for everything, nor for anything. Don't let
your happiness be tied up with the health of that group. If one
meetup is good, that's good! It might be the last good one for a
year, but that one was still good. It might be the last one ever, but
that meetup was still good.
Live in the moment with those, and appreciate the good parts.
See that as a small part of the real world and don't try to live in
unschooling world (something Holly has been commenting on a bit
lately, again).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
answers won't help you much, but I'll offer them because honestly,
maybe it's the help you'll need.
-=-Sometimes there are situations where people say they are
unschoolers but then are talking about lesson plans or treating their
children in less than unschoolish ways and I am afraid it gives the
wrong impression to new families. -=-
Ours was called "The Goof Group." We had paper handouts and each one
said the group was to play, not to discuss curriculum.
I know people put descriptions on yahoo lists and such, but I also
know people can join groups and participate without ever seeing those
descriptions. :-/
-=-Also, some suggestions on how to handle teasing or unkind behaviour
within the group.=-
Say this when anyone's not nice: "Please be nice."
If that doesn't work, go to the mom and say "I've asked [kid's name]
to be nicer; could you talk to him?"
Or "Looks like [kid's name] is [doing whatever] again; could you go
over and mediate that?"
The most important word in there is "again."
Let her know it's not the first time.
If she doesn't stand up to go and mediate that, then it seems to be
flat-out permission for anyone else to do so in their own way.
-=-To be clear, I am not the moderator of our local group and I am
still changing and growing as an unschooler myself. I am looking for
help from the perspective of a member not a moderator. I would like to
see the group grow and it seems to be at a stand still right now,
although that could be because of the hot summer.-=-
Groups are organisms. They are born, they grow, and they die.
-=-We do do somethings that are fun like bringing hoola hoops or
having a water gun day. Looking for ideas to add some spice to the
group too.-=-
Look up any lists of activities for kids online or in books. Don't
get attached to the outcome.
==There is also a lack of older children. How can you keep park days
interesting for them?-=-
Can't.
There's bribery, request for them to help with younger kids (for pay,
if you have to), request for them to go to help the other families get
to meet some older kids (the last few years, that's the only reason
Kirby went). Card games and board games didn't work well because the
wind blew.
The larger the group, the more likely older kids will be there but it
is absolutely impossible to guarantee that every child who shows up
will find friends or be included in every activity. That's part of
the downfall of the peace of such groups. Parents imagine that every
child will be equally included, but that only happens if the other
kids are robots without preferences and friendships. Once friendships
develop (the goal of most families who take kids to park days), there
are the inevitable preferences and disagreements and joy and heartbreak.
Don't depend on the group for everything, nor for anything. Don't let
your happiness be tied up with the health of that group. If one
meetup is good, that's good! It might be the last good one for a
year, but that one was still good. It might be the last one ever, but
that meetup was still good.
Live in the moment with those, and appreciate the good parts.
See that as a small part of the real world and don't try to live in
unschooling world (something Holly has been commenting on a bit
lately, again).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***Sometimes there are situations where people say they are unschoolers but then
are talking about lesson plans or treating their children in less than
unschoolish ways and I am afraid it gives the wrong impression to new families.
***
In real life, I've always let those things go. I figure that not everyone is
unschooling, even if they connect with that style of homeschooling more than,
say, classical homeschooling. When Chamille was young there just weren't other
unschoolers around. There were a few here and there, wrong gender, too far
away, too young, too old, wrong interests, etc. Chamille knew some of them, but
mostly she befriended other homeschoolers and kids who went to school. That is
what we were used to, mixing with others. We were more concerned with whether
or not the kids liked each other and got along and had similar interests. I
rarely talked about unschooling at park days and homeschool gatherings. One
time I did, and the woman never spoke to me again, and went on to become a big
voice on the local list for eclectic and charter schools and teaching "the
basics". I figure people are going to do what they are drawn to, if it works
for them, then it does, if it doesn't they'll hopefully seek out something else
and that information is out there in abundance now.
In our area, there is a larger more "all inclusive" unschooling list and a
radical unschooling list. Those families that want to meet up with other
unschooling families and really are living those ideas everyday can find that on
the radical list. My experience, and this is just *my* experience, is that it
is easier to hang out with a mixed group of homeschoolers than it is to hang out
with unschoolers who say they unschool, but don't really live it. It's
beautiful when you meet other families and you get along wonderfully with the
adults and the kids get along wonderfully with each other too. It's rare, but
it does happen. I have a couple of local friends that are like that in my area,
and they are all kids that are Margaux's age, so the younger set, she's almost
9. We never found that with Chamille and that's okay. I'm very careful with
my special unschooling friends, to not over do it, to take it easy, and to keep
outings and get togethers happy and fun because I do NOT want to lose them or
take advantage of that relationship!
***Also, some suggestions on how to handle teasing or unkind behaviour within
the group.***
That kind of thing will happen in ANY group get together where there are lots of
kids and personalities all mixed together. I've always addressed the people
involved directly. What helps more than anything else is to play with my kids
at any gathering, or be near enough to hear and jump in as needed. Then, when
it seems like the kids have a rapport with one another, you can let them wander
away and do their own thing. It takes time, lots of time, and it's very
dependent on personalities.
***I would like to see the group grow and it seems to be at a stand still right
now, although that could be because of the hot summer.***
My favorite things that people have done on lists like those, is to post
interesting things with out any expectations of anyone responding. People will
read them. I like it when people post outings and invite others along. I find
that after you get to know a couple of families, facebook is an easier place to
do that than lists. Again, that's just me.
Having zero expectations of other unschooling families has helped me get along
with other unschooling families.
I don't have an answer to getting older kids involved in park days. I wouldn't
be able to drag my older daughter to a park day. She would have to be pretty
bored to go to a park day with me and her sister. Her interests are just very
different right now. She goes to the park with just the 3 of us all the time,
the park right next to our house, but as a planned outing with multiple others,
not going to happen. (and because I've said this, she'll probably prove me
wrong, it's been known to happen!)
The longest running local park day in my area has one host at any time who shows
up rain or shine. It's been running for about 18 yrs or something like that.
They have a few established things that happen one time each year, they do a
book swap and a clothing swap. They always sit in the same location, they get
there early and put out chairs and blankets, the time and place hasn't changed
in all those years. The park has wooded trails that open up to a river and
beach with a dock for older kids to go and do their thing away from the younger
kids. People have the option of multiple activities because it's a very large
park with baseball diamonds, play ground for older and younger kids, lots of
swings, trails, bbq pits and covered patios, bathrooms, water, shade trees,
places to play games, and during the summer there is a concession stand. It has
a large parking lot and is near a bus stop. All those things can make the
difference in whether or not a long running park day will be successful or not.
All that other stuff like water play and hoola hoops are extra, liking icing on
the cake.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
are talking about lesson plans or treating their children in less than
unschoolish ways and I am afraid it gives the wrong impression to new families.
***
In real life, I've always let those things go. I figure that not everyone is
unschooling, even if they connect with that style of homeschooling more than,
say, classical homeschooling. When Chamille was young there just weren't other
unschoolers around. There were a few here and there, wrong gender, too far
away, too young, too old, wrong interests, etc. Chamille knew some of them, but
mostly she befriended other homeschoolers and kids who went to school. That is
what we were used to, mixing with others. We were more concerned with whether
or not the kids liked each other and got along and had similar interests. I
rarely talked about unschooling at park days and homeschool gatherings. One
time I did, and the woman never spoke to me again, and went on to become a big
voice on the local list for eclectic and charter schools and teaching "the
basics". I figure people are going to do what they are drawn to, if it works
for them, then it does, if it doesn't they'll hopefully seek out something else
and that information is out there in abundance now.
In our area, there is a larger more "all inclusive" unschooling list and a
radical unschooling list. Those families that want to meet up with other
unschooling families and really are living those ideas everyday can find that on
the radical list. My experience, and this is just *my* experience, is that it
is easier to hang out with a mixed group of homeschoolers than it is to hang out
with unschoolers who say they unschool, but don't really live it. It's
beautiful when you meet other families and you get along wonderfully with the
adults and the kids get along wonderfully with each other too. It's rare, but
it does happen. I have a couple of local friends that are like that in my area,
and they are all kids that are Margaux's age, so the younger set, she's almost
9. We never found that with Chamille and that's okay. I'm very careful with
my special unschooling friends, to not over do it, to take it easy, and to keep
outings and get togethers happy and fun because I do NOT want to lose them or
take advantage of that relationship!
***Also, some suggestions on how to handle teasing or unkind behaviour within
the group.***
That kind of thing will happen in ANY group get together where there are lots of
kids and personalities all mixed together. I've always addressed the people
involved directly. What helps more than anything else is to play with my kids
at any gathering, or be near enough to hear and jump in as needed. Then, when
it seems like the kids have a rapport with one another, you can let them wander
away and do their own thing. It takes time, lots of time, and it's very
dependent on personalities.
***I would like to see the group grow and it seems to be at a stand still right
now, although that could be because of the hot summer.***
My favorite things that people have done on lists like those, is to post
interesting things with out any expectations of anyone responding. People will
read them. I like it when people post outings and invite others along. I find
that after you get to know a couple of families, facebook is an easier place to
do that than lists. Again, that's just me.
Having zero expectations of other unschooling families has helped me get along
with other unschooling families.
I don't have an answer to getting older kids involved in park days. I wouldn't
be able to drag my older daughter to a park day. She would have to be pretty
bored to go to a park day with me and her sister. Her interests are just very
different right now. She goes to the park with just the 3 of us all the time,
the park right next to our house, but as a planned outing with multiple others,
not going to happen. (and because I've said this, she'll probably prove me
wrong, it's been known to happen!)
The longest running local park day in my area has one host at any time who shows
up rain or shine. It's been running for about 18 yrs or something like that.
They have a few established things that happen one time each year, they do a
book swap and a clothing swap. They always sit in the same location, they get
there early and put out chairs and blankets, the time and place hasn't changed
in all those years. The park has wooded trails that open up to a river and
beach with a dock for older kids to go and do their thing away from the younger
kids. People have the option of multiple activities because it's a very large
park with baseball diamonds, play ground for older and younger kids, lots of
swings, trails, bbq pits and covered patios, bathrooms, water, shade trees,
places to play games, and during the summer there is a concession stand. It has
a large parking lot and is near a bus stop. All those things can make the
difference in whether or not a long running park day will be successful or not.
All that other stuff like water play and hoola hoops are extra, liking icing on
the cake.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aldq75
---I would like to see the group grow and it seems to be at a stand still right now, although that could be because of the hot summer. We do do somethings that are fun like bringing hoola hoops or having a water gun day.---
How about a potluck at someone's house (or pool) or an evening gathering at a well-lit park? Arroyo Grande Park in Henderson comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others. I was in Vegas over the weekend and it was cool enough to be outside in the evening. Perhaps a backyard BBQ? Hiking up at Mt Charleston might be fun, too. The Kyle Canyon hike is a good one for kids of all ages.
Andrea Q
How about a potluck at someone's house (or pool) or an evening gathering at a well-lit park? Arroyo Grande Park in Henderson comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others. I was in Vegas over the weekend and it was cool enough to be outside in the evening. Perhaps a backyard BBQ? Hiking up at Mt Charleston might be fun, too. The Kyle Canyon hike is a good one for kids of all ages.
Andrea Q
joanne.lopers
Sandra, you always have a great way of putting things that keeps me in the moment and out of that place of fear. There definately is such an ebb and flow of things. Today there was a wonderful good-bye to a family moving across the country. What a great memory. We will talk about this one day for a long time I am sure!!
I do enjoy our group emensely and will just let go of the concerns I was having. No biggy and I kinda thought that. My own insecuries creeping in. Don't get too idealistic about how I think things should be.
Liked the suggestion for the teasing. It is not a huge problem and my kids apparently have on occasion been a part of it. I would have prefered that someone let me know so I could have dealt with it right away. Sometimes a script helps me because that conditioned anger from the past surfaces and I don't handle a situation as well as when I have something already planned to say in circumstances that make me edgy. It can be hard to retrain yourself to respond differently than how you were raised.
We sound pretty typical of what is going on then. Friendships are hard to foster and I guess that can happen in school too. The neighbourhood we live in does not have many kids so we have to seek out all of our social activities and it seems to be taking a long time to making the jump to friendships where there are house visits. We do have some great space to play so maybe when the weather is cooler I'll have to do open play at our house.
I am curious what Holly has been saying about unschooling? Would she mind if you expanded?
Joanne
I do enjoy our group emensely and will just let go of the concerns I was having. No biggy and I kinda thought that. My own insecuries creeping in. Don't get too idealistic about how I think things should be.
Liked the suggestion for the teasing. It is not a huge problem and my kids apparently have on occasion been a part of it. I would have prefered that someone let me know so I could have dealt with it right away. Sometimes a script helps me because that conditioned anger from the past surfaces and I don't handle a situation as well as when I have something already planned to say in circumstances that make me edgy. It can be hard to retrain yourself to respond differently than how you were raised.
We sound pretty typical of what is going on then. Friendships are hard to foster and I guess that can happen in school too. The neighbourhood we live in does not have many kids so we have to seek out all of our social activities and it seems to be taking a long time to making the jump to friendships where there are house visits. We do have some great space to play so maybe when the weather is cooler I'll have to do open play at our house.
I am curious what Holly has been saying about unschooling? Would she mind if you expanded?
Joanne
Sandra Dodd
-=-I am curious what Holly has been saying about unschooling? Would
she mind if you expanded?-=-
Although she does have a lot of unschooling friends, and she's
currently working for an unschooling family (and the last two shorter
situations she had were also for unschooling families...) she objects
to people wanting or expecting to live their entire lives in the
sheltered company of unschoolers. That's not her phrase. She speaks
of "unschoolingworld" and not in a "gosh, we should all live there!"
way.
She thinks some people live as though there are special laws of
physics, particular legislation, and different landlord expectations
of people just because they're unschooling.
She only mentions it a few times a year. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
she mind if you expanded?-=-
Although she does have a lot of unschooling friends, and she's
currently working for an unschooling family (and the last two shorter
situations she had were also for unschooling families...) she objects
to people wanting or expecting to live their entire lives in the
sheltered company of unschoolers. That's not her phrase. She speaks
of "unschoolingworld" and not in a "gosh, we should all live there!"
way.
She thinks some people live as though there are special laws of
physics, particular legislation, and different landlord expectations
of people just because they're unschooling.
She only mentions it a few times a year. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezignarob
Here's my take on park days and seeking unschoolers.
Looking for unschoolers is about me and my needs for congenial friendships more than Jayn's (10yo) needs for friends.
Jayn's beloved and closest friends at present are a couple of kids who are very relaxed home schoolers "unschoolish" but with food rules and screen time restrictions, and a couple of other families' kids whose various parents are very kind but have relatively high expectations about schoolish learning, chores and house rules. I like some of these parents in a light and pleasant way. Others I love dearly - but my friendship level for the parents is irrelevant to Jayn and her love of her friends.
Her unschooling friends are not very local to us - we tend to have to travel and make an event out of seeing them.
Jayn has been pretty much refusing to go to park days for a few years now, except for sometimes travelling to see one of her friends (also 10 years old)and keeping her company at the park so that her little brother can enjoy his time at park day with his younger peers. They tend to go off together and talk about stuff.
*I* am the one who wants to go to park days because then I get to commune with parents, some of whom will be unschoolers and will be interesting.
Most of the people I love most in the world are unschooling parents who I have met at the conferences. Many of them live a long way away, even in other countries. We just have a lot in common and laugh a lot. It goes beyond unschooling, and into common core beliefs and genuine simpatico. I seek them out when I have the chance, because they are cool.
Some people I love, but Jayn doesn't want to hang out with their kids. And unlike when I was growing up and I was forced to play with kids in whom I had no particular interest just because my mother was friends with their parents, I'm not going to insist that Jayn engage with people she doesn't like, on my account. There will be plenty of time for that when she is in the workforce. (Just kidding, sort of.)
So when both of us come together in our preferences and we both have people we care about and whose company we enjoy in the same setting, then that is something for which to be grateful.
==She thinks some people live as though there are special laws of
physics, particular legislation, and different landlord expectations
of people just because they're unschooling.===
Would people who live as though societal rules don't apply to them or their family be that way anyway? Does unschooling just throw that mindset into higher relief?
Or is this an assumption that non-unschoolers make about us? Is it like schooling parents making assumptions about the character traits and behavior of home schooled kids as being because they are home schooled rather than who they are?
I have only once been in a situation where a kid was behaving inappropriately and the mom was not stopping it, with the apparent belief that it was OK for her son to be climbing the tree in the protected park. Other home schooling parents talking the incident over later said derisively, "She let him do that because they're unschoolers."
And I said, "There's nothing in unschooling about letting kids ignore rules when they are out in public places" or similar words.
When the organizers had asked her to curb him, she was surprised that they were being so picky, and seemed to think it unreasonable, but she had him come down anyway. They had a quiet conversation and the upshot was that he wasn't happy to be there without being allowed to climb, so they left and went somewhere else.
That too was observed with some derision by the other parents whose kids did not have a choice about being at this educational opportunity field trip. (We left too, shortly after, because Jayn was bored. I can only imagine that we were dissed too.)
OTOH the few people I know who live as though their and their kids' desires are the only things that matter regardless of courtesy or lines or crowds of people waiting or any one else - they aren't unschoolers.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.robyncoburn.blogspot.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
Looking for unschoolers is about me and my needs for congenial friendships more than Jayn's (10yo) needs for friends.
Jayn's beloved and closest friends at present are a couple of kids who are very relaxed home schoolers "unschoolish" but with food rules and screen time restrictions, and a couple of other families' kids whose various parents are very kind but have relatively high expectations about schoolish learning, chores and house rules. I like some of these parents in a light and pleasant way. Others I love dearly - but my friendship level for the parents is irrelevant to Jayn and her love of her friends.
Her unschooling friends are not very local to us - we tend to have to travel and make an event out of seeing them.
Jayn has been pretty much refusing to go to park days for a few years now, except for sometimes travelling to see one of her friends (also 10 years old)and keeping her company at the park so that her little brother can enjoy his time at park day with his younger peers. They tend to go off together and talk about stuff.
*I* am the one who wants to go to park days because then I get to commune with parents, some of whom will be unschoolers and will be interesting.
Most of the people I love most in the world are unschooling parents who I have met at the conferences. Many of them live a long way away, even in other countries. We just have a lot in common and laugh a lot. It goes beyond unschooling, and into common core beliefs and genuine simpatico. I seek them out when I have the chance, because they are cool.
Some people I love, but Jayn doesn't want to hang out with their kids. And unlike when I was growing up and I was forced to play with kids in whom I had no particular interest just because my mother was friends with their parents, I'm not going to insist that Jayn engage with people she doesn't like, on my account. There will be plenty of time for that when she is in the workforce. (Just kidding, sort of.)
So when both of us come together in our preferences and we both have people we care about and whose company we enjoy in the same setting, then that is something for which to be grateful.
==She thinks some people live as though there are special laws of
physics, particular legislation, and different landlord expectations
of people just because they're unschooling.===
Would people who live as though societal rules don't apply to them or their family be that way anyway? Does unschooling just throw that mindset into higher relief?
Or is this an assumption that non-unschoolers make about us? Is it like schooling parents making assumptions about the character traits and behavior of home schooled kids as being because they are home schooled rather than who they are?
I have only once been in a situation where a kid was behaving inappropriately and the mom was not stopping it, with the apparent belief that it was OK for her son to be climbing the tree in the protected park. Other home schooling parents talking the incident over later said derisively, "She let him do that because they're unschoolers."
And I said, "There's nothing in unschooling about letting kids ignore rules when they are out in public places" or similar words.
When the organizers had asked her to curb him, she was surprised that they were being so picky, and seemed to think it unreasonable, but she had him come down anyway. They had a quiet conversation and the upshot was that he wasn't happy to be there without being allowed to climb, so they left and went somewhere else.
That too was observed with some derision by the other parents whose kids did not have a choice about being at this educational opportunity field trip. (We left too, shortly after, because Jayn was bored. I can only imagine that we were dissed too.)
OTOH the few people I know who live as though their and their kids' desires are the only things that matter regardless of courtesy or lines or crowds of people waiting or any one else - they aren't unschoolers.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.robyncoburn.blogspot.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have only once been in a situation where a kid was behaving
inappropriately and the mom was not stopping it, with the apparent
belief that it was OK for her son to be climbing the tree in the
protected park. Other home schooling parents talking the incident over
later said derisively, "She let him do that because they're
unschoolers."
-=-And I said, "There's nothing in unschooling about letting kids
ignore rules when they are out in public places" or similar words.-=-
But some people see or hear that in unschooling.
And some people go to the "Yes" page on my site or Joyce's and they
don't read, they just see the artwork or the first few lines and they
go out and say "YES you can play in traffic" or "YES you can do
whatever the heck on earth you want to!!"
-=-==[Holly] thinks some people live as though there are special laws of
physics, particular legislation, and different landlord expectations
of people just because they're unschooling.===
[Robyn asked:] -=-Would people who live as though societal rules
don't apply to them or their family be that way anyway? Does
unschooling just throw that mindset into higher relief?-=-
It might be an intensifying factor of someone already feeling that
they were too good and special for school. And too good and special
for school at home.
As with your examples about participation in group park days, it's
often about the mom, more than the kids.
Sometimes I think it's a mom social-version of spikey purple hair and
lots of piercings and provocative clothes. It's a LOOK AT ME!
But other unschoolers don't always appreciate the "look at me!" when
it is likely to reflect on all of that group or on all unschoolers.
-=-Or is this an assumption that non-unschoolers make about us? Is it
like schooling parents making assumptions about the character traits
and behavior of home schooled kids as being because they are home
schooled rather than who they are?-=-
This question can't be answered easily. There ARE character traits
that come from school. That doesn't mean every schoolkid has them in
equal measure. There ARE unschooling characteristics. It doesn't
mean some schooly family won't have figured out how to maintain
hugginess and choices and curiosity and respect for children's
preferences and opinions. It means that if they did, they had more
obstacles to doing that than an unschooling family probably had.
-=-OTOH the few people I know who live as though their and their kids'
desires are the only things that matter regardless of courtesy or
lines or crowds of people waiting or any one else - they aren't
unschoolers. -=-
I have too, but I've never heard them say "Oh, we're unschoolers, so..."
But I HAVE heard (and heard reports of, many times) people shrugging
and saying "unschooling" when their kids were doing something
potentially harmful to others' property or peace, or violating clearly
stated or clearly expected bounds of behavior.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
inappropriately and the mom was not stopping it, with the apparent
belief that it was OK for her son to be climbing the tree in the
protected park. Other home schooling parents talking the incident over
later said derisively, "She let him do that because they're
unschoolers."
-=-And I said, "There's nothing in unschooling about letting kids
ignore rules when they are out in public places" or similar words.-=-
But some people see or hear that in unschooling.
And some people go to the "Yes" page on my site or Joyce's and they
don't read, they just see the artwork or the first few lines and they
go out and say "YES you can play in traffic" or "YES you can do
whatever the heck on earth you want to!!"
-=-==[Holly] thinks some people live as though there are special laws of
physics, particular legislation, and different landlord expectations
of people just because they're unschooling.===
[Robyn asked:] -=-Would people who live as though societal rules
don't apply to them or their family be that way anyway? Does
unschooling just throw that mindset into higher relief?-=-
It might be an intensifying factor of someone already feeling that
they were too good and special for school. And too good and special
for school at home.
As with your examples about participation in group park days, it's
often about the mom, more than the kids.
Sometimes I think it's a mom social-version of spikey purple hair and
lots of piercings and provocative clothes. It's a LOOK AT ME!
But other unschoolers don't always appreciate the "look at me!" when
it is likely to reflect on all of that group or on all unschoolers.
-=-Or is this an assumption that non-unschoolers make about us? Is it
like schooling parents making assumptions about the character traits
and behavior of home schooled kids as being because they are home
schooled rather than who they are?-=-
This question can't be answered easily. There ARE character traits
that come from school. That doesn't mean every schoolkid has them in
equal measure. There ARE unschooling characteristics. It doesn't
mean some schooly family won't have figured out how to maintain
hugginess and choices and curiosity and respect for children's
preferences and opinions. It means that if they did, they had more
obstacles to doing that than an unschooling family probably had.
-=-OTOH the few people I know who live as though their and their kids'
desires are the only things that matter regardless of courtesy or
lines or crowds of people waiting or any one else - they aren't
unschoolers. -=-
I have too, but I've never heard them say "Oh, we're unschoolers, so..."
But I HAVE heard (and heard reports of, many times) people shrugging
and saying "unschooling" when their kids were doing something
potentially harmful to others' property or peace, or violating clearly
stated or clearly expected bounds of behavior.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"dezignarob" <dezigna@...> wrote:
Morgan started refusing to go to park days a couple years ago, too. It was an hour's drive each way, and that was part of the trouble, but the social scene was another part - a bunch of kids, and not always the exact same kids, both factors that are a bit stressful to her. She'd had a similar issue come up this week with going swimming at a nearby creek - George likes to go with a group of parents, so he can socialize, but can't always get the same group together, and Mo's not as thrilled about going as she was at the beginning.
Living around communes and travelling folks, I tend to meet unschoolers who let their kids run amok, especially boys. There's some of the "too good for school and rules and you" thing going on there, for sure, and a certain amount of wildness among the kids seems to be a kind of rebellion - parts of their lives (food, tv) are very controlled. In a way it reminds me of the stereotype of the minster's kids - or scoutmaster's kids. Their lives have some very rigid boundaries so they go a little nuts whenever they get the chance.
---Meredith
>> Jayn has been pretty much refusing to go to park days for a few years now*************
Morgan started refusing to go to park days a couple years ago, too. It was an hour's drive each way, and that was part of the trouble, but the social scene was another part - a bunch of kids, and not always the exact same kids, both factors that are a bit stressful to her. She'd had a similar issue come up this week with going swimming at a nearby creek - George likes to go with a group of parents, so he can socialize, but can't always get the same group together, and Mo's not as thrilled about going as she was at the beginning.
>>> OTOH the few people I know who live as though their and their kids' desires are the only things that matter regardless of courtesy or lines or crowds of people waiting or any one else - they aren't unschoolers.**********
Living around communes and travelling folks, I tend to meet unschoolers who let their kids run amok, especially boys. There's some of the "too good for school and rules and you" thing going on there, for sure, and a certain amount of wildness among the kids seems to be a kind of rebellion - parts of their lives (food, tv) are very controlled. In a way it reminds me of the stereotype of the minster's kids - or scoutmaster's kids. Their lives have some very rigid boundaries so they go a little nuts whenever they get the chance.
---Meredith
organicmom111
Our local group is small and very christian school at home. (ugh!). I initially joined just to get local info, etc... They dont do much other than meet to discuss curriculum, and have 'literature' class etc...... We tried to do the park day with them once, but these moms are interested in whos whos, and whats what, what curriculum you use, and what church you attend, etc....(small town :) It wasnt about the kids. (and alot of the parenting made me CRINGE)
We went by the park another day when the weather was nice and there were alot of people, so we stopped. (It wasnt 'park day ') The kids had fun, and the oldest chatted with some other older kids, in between playing with the younger ones, etc.... It was much more fun than the homeschool group park day.
The kids also wanted to do soccer, which wasnt available for local homeschoolers, so I coordinated a 'league' and we had 5 teams that played against our local schools. Again most of the parents are extremely religious , etc.... It went great, and the kids had fun , but it was because of the soccer. We werent there to socialize, persay. (I stayed busy and didnt get in on the mom conversations) If we had to sit around and chat about homeschooling, common interests, parenting styles and philosophy, it wouldnt prob go so well. I posted something about John Holt on our local group(an fyi type post for a newbie) Then a fellow group busybody posted how we should propose legislation for regulation, etc.....
The only other mom I know of in the group who unschools, had a tween 'group' get together at her house. (They allow tv, video games, etc.....)That day another group member who attended the playdate started a thread on the group for a 'new, chrisitan only' tween group weekly get together.....It was SOOOOOOO rude.......and the unschooling mom left the group, and her kids feelings were really hurt.
So......we unschool, and keep the kid socializing pretty light, and live life. We are not heavily into any local groups. If we want to go to the park, we go...If we want to got to the museum we go..... we dont wait for a group field trip or something 'homeschool' related. Were not generally very 'groupy' people anyway, and being independent from that works well for us. When I need like minds or an opinion, I come here .... So far, so good :)
We went by the park another day when the weather was nice and there were alot of people, so we stopped. (It wasnt 'park day ') The kids had fun, and the oldest chatted with some other older kids, in between playing with the younger ones, etc.... It was much more fun than the homeschool group park day.
The kids also wanted to do soccer, which wasnt available for local homeschoolers, so I coordinated a 'league' and we had 5 teams that played against our local schools. Again most of the parents are extremely religious , etc.... It went great, and the kids had fun , but it was because of the soccer. We werent there to socialize, persay. (I stayed busy and didnt get in on the mom conversations) If we had to sit around and chat about homeschooling, common interests, parenting styles and philosophy, it wouldnt prob go so well. I posted something about John Holt on our local group(an fyi type post for a newbie) Then a fellow group busybody posted how we should propose legislation for regulation, etc.....
The only other mom I know of in the group who unschools, had a tween 'group' get together at her house. (They allow tv, video games, etc.....)That day another group member who attended the playdate started a thread on the group for a 'new, chrisitan only' tween group weekly get together.....It was SOOOOOOO rude.......and the unschooling mom left the group, and her kids feelings were really hurt.
So......we unschool, and keep the kid socializing pretty light, and live life. We are not heavily into any local groups. If we want to go to the park, we go...If we want to got to the museum we go..... we dont wait for a group field trip or something 'homeschool' related. Were not generally very 'groupy' people anyway, and being independent from that works well for us. When I need like minds or an opinion, I come here .... So far, so good :)
--- In [email protected], "joanne.lopers" <wilmalv@...> wrote:
>
> I am looking for some suggestions from others who have been part of unschooling groups in their areas on how to help make those groups attractive to other unschoolers. Also, maybe stories on what did not work so pitfalls can be avoided.
> Sometimes there are situations where people say they are unschoolers but then are talking about lesson plans or treating their children in less than unschoolish ways and I am afraid it gives the wrong impression to new families. Also, some suggestions on how to handle teasing or unkind behaviour within the group.
> To be clear, I am not the moderator of our local group and I am still changing and growing as an unschooler myself. I am looking for help from the perspective of a member not a moderator. I would like to see the group grow and it seems to be at a stand still right now, although that could be because of the hot summer.
> We do do somethings that are fun like bringing hoola hoops or having a water gun day. Looking for ideas to add some spice to the group too.
> There is also a lack of older children. How can you keep park days interesting for them?
> Joanne
>
Sandra Dodd
-=- I posted something about John Holt on our local group(an fyi type
post for a newbie) Then a fellow group busybody posted how we should
propose legislation for regulation, etc..... -=-
No doubt some thought you were a busybody for posting about John Holt,
so please go easy on the name calling.
I'm quite a busybody on this list, right? I read EVERYthing as if it's
my own business, and I respond to just about every new topic,
sometimes three or four times.
This last weekend I spoke more than once a day, ever day. What a
busybody.
Take care with any word or phrase that isn't carefully chosen, not
just toward children.
http://sandradodd.com/mindfulofwords
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
post for a newbie) Then a fellow group busybody posted how we should
propose legislation for regulation, etc..... -=-
No doubt some thought you were a busybody for posting about John Holt,
so please go easy on the name calling.
I'm quite a busybody on this list, right? I read EVERYthing as if it's
my own business, and I respond to just about every new topic,
sometimes three or four times.
This last weekend I spoke more than once a day, ever day. What a
busybody.
Take care with any word or phrase that isn't carefully chosen, not
just toward children.
http://sandradodd.com/mindfulofwords
http://sandradodd.com/phrases
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
organicmom111
--No doubt some thought you were a busybody for posting about John Holt,
so please go easy on the name calling.--
Probably, but it was in response to an inquiry about a good book recommendation...... so I recommended Holt.(the post literally said ' FYI i found this author to be helpful . :)' She was new to homeschooling.
so please go easy on the name calling.--
Probably, but it was in response to an inquiry about a good book recommendation...... so I recommended Holt.(the post literally said ' FYI i found this author to be helpful . :)' She was new to homeschooling.
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=- I posted something about John Holt on our local group(an fyi type
> post for a newbie) Then a fellow group busybody posted how we should
> propose legislation for regulation, etc..... -=-
>
> No doubt some thought you were a busybody for posting about John Holt,
> so please go easy on the name calling.
>
> I'm quite a busybody on this list, right? I read EVERYthing as if it's
> my own business, and I respond to just about every new topic,
> sometimes three or four times.
>
> This last weekend I spoke more than once a day, ever day. What a
> busybody.
>
> Take care with any word or phrase that isn't carefully chosen, not
> just toward children.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/mindfulofwords
> http://sandradodd.com/phrases
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
organicmom111
--I'm quite a busybody on this list, right? I read EVERYthing as if it's
my own business, and I respond to just about every new topic,
sometimes three or four times.--
I guess we have different definitions for 'busybody'. This is your list, and your the moderator.
Me suggesting an author who promotes unschooling over schooling at home- to an individual on a list, and then the next post being negative about 'non'school at homers', and even suggesting more legislation to regulate them, and insinuating unschoolers are less than, etc...... to me is a jab, even a slight one. Yes the use of the term busybody isnt nice, but neither is trying to discredit my suggestion for a good author/ book, or being negative about those who like Holt. :)
--This last weekend I spoke more than once a day, ever day. What a
busybody.--
???
my own business, and I respond to just about every new topic,
sometimes three or four times.--
I guess we have different definitions for 'busybody'. This is your list, and your the moderator.
Me suggesting an author who promotes unschooling over schooling at home- to an individual on a list, and then the next post being negative about 'non'school at homers', and even suggesting more legislation to regulate them, and insinuating unschoolers are less than, etc...... to me is a jab, even a slight one. Yes the use of the term busybody isnt nice, but neither is trying to discredit my suggestion for a good author/ book, or being negative about those who like Holt. :)
--This last weekend I spoke more than once a day, ever day. What a
busybody.--
???
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=- I posted something about John Holt on our local group(an fyi type
> post for a newbie) Then a fellow group busybody posted how we should
> propose legislation for regulation, etc..... -=-
>
> No doubt some thought you were a busybody for posting about John Holt,
> so please go easy on the name calling.
>
> I'm quite a busybody on this list, right? I read EVERYthing as if it's
> my own business, and I respond to just about every new topic,
> sometimes three or four times.
>
> This last weekend I spoke more than once a day, ever day. What a
> busybody.
>
> Take care with any word or phrase that isn't carefully chosen, not
> just toward children.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/mindfulofwords
> http://sandradodd.com/phrases
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I guess we have different definitions for 'busybody'. This is your
list, and your the moderator. -=-
The New Mexico Homeschooling list was my list, and I was the
moderator, when I made one unschooling comment (after months of not
mentioning it at all, nor did I have a "come see my unschooling site"
sigline) and got my shit jumped for suggesting that unschooling was
better than other things.
ANY mention of unschooling in the presence of school-at-homers [doh!]
is taken as criticism, and that will be true forever.
To suggest, in the presence of people who are making their children do
schoolwork, that schoolwork is a) not necessary and b) harmful is
considered (by them) to be somewhere between storming their house from
above, and undermining it from below.
If someone who believes that way is defensive of her beliefs (and they
are), then how is that "busybody"?
-=- being negative about 'non'school at homers', and even suggesting
more legislation to regulate them, and insinuating unschoolers are
less than, etc...... to me is a jab, even a slight one. Yes the use of
the term busybody isnt nice, but neither is trying to discredit my
suggestion for a good author/ book, or being negative about those who
like Holt. :)-=-
But what you did by recommending Holt was more than a jab. It was a
battering ram, a BIG one.
For all the "can't we all just get along" and "we have to stick
together" that's heard from structured homeschoolers and middle of the
road unschoolers/eclectic homeschoolers, what they seem to mean is
"can't you unschoolers just be quiet and put your energy toward
supporting curriculum-based homeschooling?"
I was spoken to by a conference organizer once about complaints they
received from curriculum sellers because they heard I had told people
not to buy anything when they first decided to homeschool, but to look
around, and make those decisions slowly. This was an inclusive
conference in New Mexico, years ago. Turns out, though, that the
curriculum sales tables were paying for most of the conference, and
they count on people buying from them out of a combination of fear and
the idea that they will have to buy *some* curriculum, so it might as
well be *this* one. Me, in the other room, saying you don't have to
buy one at all was marring their business opportunity.
Unschoolers should learn to expect that, and not be surprised by it.
It's why unschooling conferences exist, so that unschoolers can
discuss their beliefs and practices and ideas without being heckled or
insulted.
-=---This last weekend I spoke more than once a day, ever day. What a
busybody.--
-=-???-=-
I was at a very large conference--general homeschooling conference,
not just unschooling.
I tried to mark all my talks clearly and state up front what my
beliefs were, but I was still getting some dirty looks, and a few
people left (potentially huffily; one for sure, but not from a talk
that was just mine).
It takes more energy to speak to a mixed group than to all
unschoolers. I was exhausted.
I don't think they're being "busybodies," though. They're defending
homeschooling as they believe it should be and as they believe it "has
to" be. I'm defending natural learning and relationships as they can
be if they're not messed up. Those are not compatible points of view.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
list, and your the moderator. -=-
The New Mexico Homeschooling list was my list, and I was the
moderator, when I made one unschooling comment (after months of not
mentioning it at all, nor did I have a "come see my unschooling site"
sigline) and got my shit jumped for suggesting that unschooling was
better than other things.
ANY mention of unschooling in the presence of school-at-homers [doh!]
is taken as criticism, and that will be true forever.
To suggest, in the presence of people who are making their children do
schoolwork, that schoolwork is a) not necessary and b) harmful is
considered (by them) to be somewhere between storming their house from
above, and undermining it from below.
If someone who believes that way is defensive of her beliefs (and they
are), then how is that "busybody"?
-=- being negative about 'non'school at homers', and even suggesting
more legislation to regulate them, and insinuating unschoolers are
less than, etc...... to me is a jab, even a slight one. Yes the use of
the term busybody isnt nice, but neither is trying to discredit my
suggestion for a good author/ book, or being negative about those who
like Holt. :)-=-
But what you did by recommending Holt was more than a jab. It was a
battering ram, a BIG one.
For all the "can't we all just get along" and "we have to stick
together" that's heard from structured homeschoolers and middle of the
road unschoolers/eclectic homeschoolers, what they seem to mean is
"can't you unschoolers just be quiet and put your energy toward
supporting curriculum-based homeschooling?"
I was spoken to by a conference organizer once about complaints they
received from curriculum sellers because they heard I had told people
not to buy anything when they first decided to homeschool, but to look
around, and make those decisions slowly. This was an inclusive
conference in New Mexico, years ago. Turns out, though, that the
curriculum sales tables were paying for most of the conference, and
they count on people buying from them out of a combination of fear and
the idea that they will have to buy *some* curriculum, so it might as
well be *this* one. Me, in the other room, saying you don't have to
buy one at all was marring their business opportunity.
Unschoolers should learn to expect that, and not be surprised by it.
It's why unschooling conferences exist, so that unschoolers can
discuss their beliefs and practices and ideas without being heckled or
insulted.
-=---This last weekend I spoke more than once a day, ever day. What a
busybody.--
-=-???-=-
I was at a very large conference--general homeschooling conference,
not just unschooling.
I tried to mark all my talks clearly and state up front what my
beliefs were, but I was still getting some dirty looks, and a few
people left (potentially huffily; one for sure, but not from a talk
that was just mine).
It takes more energy to speak to a mixed group than to all
unschoolers. I was exhausted.
I don't think they're being "busybodies," though. They're defending
homeschooling as they believe it should be and as they believe it "has
to" be. I'm defending natural learning and relationships as they can
be if they're not messed up. Those are not compatible points of view.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=---No doubt some thought you were a busybody for posting about John
Holt,
so please go easy on the name calling.--
-=-Probably, but it was in response to an inquiry about a good book
recommendation...... so I recommended Holt.(the post literally said '
FYI i found this author to be helpful . :)' She was new to
homeschooling. -=-
There are things to read without finding a book, here and there are
links to other repositories of Holt-stuff there, too.
http://SandraDodd.com/johnholt
It's not that I don't recommend people read John Holt. I do.
It's that I'm never surprised when some people object. They will.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Holt,
so please go easy on the name calling.--
-=-Probably, but it was in response to an inquiry about a good book
recommendation...... so I recommended Holt.(the post literally said '
FYI i found this author to be helpful . :)' She was new to
homeschooling. -=-
There are things to read without finding a book, here and there are
links to other repositories of Holt-stuff there, too.
http://SandraDodd.com/johnholt
It's not that I don't recommend people read John Holt. I do.
It's that I'm never surprised when some people object. They will.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
organicmom111
*ANY mention of unschooling in the presence of school-at-homers [doh!]
is taken as criticism, and that will be true forever.*
Doh! is right! :) I would have loved to know before joining the group , that the group is actually 'not' there 'for all diverse homeschoolers in our area', but just full of people from the other christian homeschool group here. The moderator even stated after the 'tween group' incident that this isnt the christian group, and activities, etc.. should be for all members......then 2 weeks ago there was a post for signups for homeschool band, but you have to be a member of the christian group to participate. :)
is taken as criticism, and that will be true forever.*
Doh! is right! :) I would have loved to know before joining the group , that the group is actually 'not' there 'for all diverse homeschoolers in our area', but just full of people from the other christian homeschool group here. The moderator even stated after the 'tween group' incident that this isnt the christian group, and activities, etc.. should be for all members......then 2 weeks ago there was a post for signups for homeschool band, but you have to be a member of the christian group to participate. :)
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-I guess we have different definitions for 'busybody'. This is your
> list, and your the moderator. -=-
>
> The New Mexico Homeschooling list was my list, and I was the
> moderator, when I made one unschooling comment (after months of not
> mentioning it at all, nor did I have a "come see my unschooling site"
> sigline) and got my shit jumped for suggesting that unschooling was
> better than other things.
>
> ANY mention of unschooling in the presence of school-at-homers [doh!]
> is taken as criticism, and that will be true forever.
> To suggest, in the presence of people who are making their children do
> schoolwork, that schoolwork is a) not necessary and b) harmful is
> considered (by them) to be somewhere between storming their house from
> above, and undermining it from below.
>
> If someone who believes that way is defensive of her beliefs (and they
> are), then how is that "busybody"?
>
> -=- being negative about 'non'school at homers', and even suggesting
> more legislation to regulate them, and insinuating unschoolers are
> less than, etc...... to me is a jab, even a slight one. Yes the use of
> the term busybody isnt nice, but neither is trying to discredit my
> suggestion for a good author/ book, or being negative about those who
> like Holt. :)-=-
>
> But what you did by recommending Holt was more than a jab. It was a
> battering ram, a BIG one.
>
> For all the "can't we all just get along" and "we have to stick
> together" that's heard from structured homeschoolers and middle of the
> road unschoolers/eclectic homeschoolers, what they seem to mean is
> "can't you unschoolers just be quiet and put your energy toward
> supporting curriculum-based homeschooling?"
>
> I was spoken to by a conference organizer once about complaints they
> received from curriculum sellers because they heard I had told people
> not to buy anything when they first decided to homeschool, but to look
> around, and make those decisions slowly. This was an inclusive
> conference in New Mexico, years ago. Turns out, though, that the
> curriculum sales tables were paying for most of the conference, and
> they count on people buying from them out of a combination of fear and
> the idea that they will have to buy *some* curriculum, so it might as
> well be *this* one. Me, in the other room, saying you don't have to
> buy one at all was marring their business opportunity.
>
> Unschoolers should learn to expect that, and not be surprised by it.
> It's why unschooling conferences exist, so that unschoolers can
> discuss their beliefs and practices and ideas without being heckled or
> insulted.
>
> -=---This last weekend I spoke more than once a day, ever day. What a
> busybody.--
> -=-???-=-
>
> I was at a very large conference--general homeschooling conference,
> not just unschooling.
> I tried to mark all my talks clearly and state up front what my
> beliefs were, but I was still getting some dirty looks, and a few
> people left (potentially huffily; one for sure, but not from a talk
> that was just mine).
>
> It takes more energy to speak to a mixed group than to all
> unschoolers. I was exhausted.
>
> I don't think they're being "busybodies," though. They're defending
> homeschooling as they believe it should be and as they believe it "has
> to" be. I'm defending natural learning and relationships as they can
> be if they're not messed up. Those are not compatible points of view.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
Sandra Dodd
-=-Doh! is right! :) I would have loved to know before joining the
group , that the group is actually 'not' there 'for all diverse
homeschoolers in our area', but just full of people from the other
christian homeschool group here.-=-
If you want to hang out with unschoolers, you'll need to find
unschoolers.
If you're willing to hang out with structured Christian homeschoolers
that can still be fun, IF you can stop being shocked that they're
homeschooling primarily to get away from non-Christian homeschoolers
(which could, in some cases, be the unschoolers in the group).
"Inclusive" might mean ABeka AND Sonlight (possibly even Catholic
Seton-using homeschoolers would be welcome, but I wouldn't bet money
on it in the southeastern U.S.). And in the countries many of our
readers are in, this whole topic might make little to no sense, so
let's not dwell on it except for the reminder that IF an unschooling
family joins any group (even an unschooling group) they will have an
opportunity to practice tolerance for other people's beliefs.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
group , that the group is actually 'not' there 'for all diverse
homeschoolers in our area', but just full of people from the other
christian homeschool group here.-=-
If you want to hang out with unschoolers, you'll need to find
unschoolers.
If you're willing to hang out with structured Christian homeschoolers
that can still be fun, IF you can stop being shocked that they're
homeschooling primarily to get away from non-Christian homeschoolers
(which could, in some cases, be the unschoolers in the group).
"Inclusive" might mean ABeka AND Sonlight (possibly even Catholic
Seton-using homeschoolers would be welcome, but I wouldn't bet money
on it in the southeastern U.S.). And in the countries many of our
readers are in, this whole topic might make little to no sense, so
let's not dwell on it except for the reminder that IF an unschooling
family joins any group (even an unschooling group) they will have an
opportunity to practice tolerance for other people's beliefs.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***IF an unschooling
family joins any group (even an unschooling group) they will have an
opportunity to practice tolerance for other people's beliefs.***
This goes back to that whole right and wrong thing. Those that do school at
home are sure they are doing what is right for their family. It's relative to
the goal. People who do school at home have a very different goal in mind for
homeschooling. Even within unschooling groups various people have different
goals.
I figured out a long time ago that it was pointless to discuss unschooling on
homeschooling lists. It always goes back to "you do what's right for your
family and I'll do what's right for my family". Even IF someone writes in all
full of fear that their 6 yr old is falling behind in math, and wanting to know
how to help their child, saying to let go of the fear isn't what they want to
hear. They generally want concrete instructions on what curriculum to use or
which math manipulative to implement onto their child. They don't want to hear
that they could play fun games that incorporate math or that forcing math as a
subject at that young of an age or any age might be harmful.
Some of the best friends we had when Chamille was younger were religious school
at homers. Sometimes it was frustrating, like when the kids were too busy to
play because they needed to do homework or bible study, or when they couldn't
play any kind of "magic" games. For the most part, the parents were kind to
their children and their children were kind to each other, and that was far more
valuable!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
family joins any group (even an unschooling group) they will have an
opportunity to practice tolerance for other people's beliefs.***
This goes back to that whole right and wrong thing. Those that do school at
home are sure they are doing what is right for their family. It's relative to
the goal. People who do school at home have a very different goal in mind for
homeschooling. Even within unschooling groups various people have different
goals.
I figured out a long time ago that it was pointless to discuss unschooling on
homeschooling lists. It always goes back to "you do what's right for your
family and I'll do what's right for my family". Even IF someone writes in all
full of fear that their 6 yr old is falling behind in math, and wanting to know
how to help their child, saying to let go of the fear isn't what they want to
hear. They generally want concrete instructions on what curriculum to use or
which math manipulative to implement onto their child. They don't want to hear
that they could play fun games that incorporate math or that forcing math as a
subject at that young of an age or any age might be harmful.
Some of the best friends we had when Chamille was younger were religious school
at homers. Sometimes it was frustrating, like when the kids were too busy to
play because they needed to do homework or bible study, or when they couldn't
play any kind of "magic" games. For the most part, the parents were kind to
their children and their children were kind to each other, and that was far more
valuable!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
I don't expect most people to want to know much about unschooling, but a lot of parents are relieved to be reminded that there's a whole range of "normal" - and when they can relax about that, its easier for them to make choices that are kinder and gentler toward their kids.
---Meredith
>Even IF someone writes in allI have a different experience with this, which is that I can talk with homeschool parents (or school parents for that matter) about fears about kids' achievement if I stick to very "intellectual" sounding discourse. Talking about research and variations in different approaches to teaching, what's done in lab schools and other such "alternative" forms of education can be helpful to parents. A lot of homeschoolers have tried multiple curriculums and educational approaches already - they may be convinced that education is important but many Are looking for alternatives to the norm. The trick is talking about "alternatives" without saying something scary, like "unschooling" and without putting people on the defensive.
> full of fear that their 6 yr old is falling behind in math, and wanting to know
> how to help their child, saying to let go of the fear isn't what they want to
> hear. They generally want concrete instructions on what curriculum to use or
> which math manipulative to implement onto their child.
I don't expect most people to want to know much about unschooling, but a lot of parents are relieved to be reminded that there's a whole range of "normal" - and when they can relax about that, its easier for them to make choices that are kinder and gentler toward their kids.
---Meredith