kazglc

I have 2 boys ages 5 and 2. I've been hanging around on the unschooling lists for about a year and a half now but I rarely get to post anything, although I would like to ask so much more, anytime there is someone else here to engage with the boys I spend desperately trying to catch up the housework to some degree. My husband works very long hours and I have some help from my mum and mother in law.

My questions are mainly around my 5 year old, L. We attatchment parented from the start and I've read nearly every gentle parenting book I can lay my hands on since he was born. He has always been an intense personality and I struggle all the time with knowing how to handle the stuff he does.

One thing that causes me constant self doubt and irritation is that he refuses to do anything for himself – here are some examples – he likes to sit on the chair in front of the telly and often likes a blanket on him – I am sitting on the sofa across the room nursing the 2 year old , A, and L will demand that I get up and put the blanket on him when it is right there at his feet – he will not lean over and get it himself – I must unlatch A, to A's dislike, cross the room and get it for him and cover him in it. Also when he wants a glass of water or food out of the cupboard which I have set up for him for easy access – I must go and get it – he will not get it for himself no matter what I am doing. Also when he wants to pee I must go up with and stand next to him and hand him a towel after he is finished to wipe his willy on – and it must be a towel, toilet paper will not do. Also if I am quickly grabbing some food from the kitchen and he is drinking a glass of water or something like that in the living room sitting in his chair in front of the tv he will shout me in to take the glass off him and put It on the window ledge that is right next to him and all he would have to do to put it there himself would be to stretch out his right arm and place it down. There is more examples but I'm hoping that is enough to give the general idea.
On the whole I do what he wants but I have huge internal struggles about it all – I don't know if I'm doing the right thing doing all this stuff for him that he could easily do himself and always disturbing A whilst he's trying to nurse – it feels like L's wants and whims always come first and the rest of us A included just have to go along with it. I'm also exhausted and worn out a lot – I've not slept properly since L was born 5 years ago and on the nights were I do actually get enough sleep (which is rare) I notice how much more energy I have and how much more calm I am. If L would do some simple things like these it would really help me to feel less drained. I wonder am I taking gentle pareting /unschooling approaches too far by doing these things (as everyone around me is saying) or is that something other unschooling type parents would think was acceptable?


Another thing L does is destroy toys a lot – the other day he got a new army truck and threw it in the air and it broke and he just wasn't bothered – he's always like that with stuff very careless and then not particularly bothered when it breaks – he has sooooo many toys the house is packed to bursting with them so maybe he values them little since he has such an abundance. I cant decide whether this is a good thing or not?
L also weaned off nursing when I was pregnant with A, when he was about 2 and half , but has remained very attached to my boobs and my belly button! He likes to cuddle my boobs and mess with my belly button. He is so big now though that I'm starting to feel maybe I should be stopping him doing it – I find it physically irritating at times especially when he wants to do it when A is nursing also and then they start fighting across me, A wants to nurse from both boobs popping from one to the other and L just wants to keep one to himself – then the fighting starts and invariably I get hurt in the process as I'm trying to stop them hurting each other whist also protecting my delicate breastfeeding equipment! Part of me feels like I should be stopping L from cuddling them now hes so old – it feels embarrassing and uncomfortable for me but maybe that's just because of the culture we are in – I don't know what to do for the best?
There are other issues with L too, he really does not like his little brother, he says A is not his brother and he wants to kick him out the window and all that kinda thing – he hits A a lot, I cant leave them in a room alone together for a second not even to run to the kitchen for a glass of water. I've posted about this before over a year ago and I am still following the advice I was given then – I posted about it on the RUN site then. There are some improvements as A gets older as I thought there would be – I don't think there are any magic answers to this problem just doing my best to be constantly present and engaging and giving L individual time with me and his dad and his nana (mother in law) who he is really close to too. I've kinda accepted this is the way it is for now rather than constantly stressing that if I could just be a good enough mother L would start liking A or at least stop hurting him. He also hits me and his dad a lot too, sometimes I just think he has all this energy bursting out of him he doesn't know what to do with it – we do loads of active stuff but he is literally bursting with energy all the time(my husband is a hugely high energy person too so he probably has it in his genes!) I also think he has huge insatiable needs for attention and action that I struggle to keep up with despite my best efforts!
We also have another type of situation that crops up a lot that I;m not sure I handle in the right way – as I said before, our house is bursting with toys, so although some of them will have been bought for L and some for A we tend to say they are all to share. However, if L considers something to be his he will at times suddenly start objecting to A playing with it and snatch it off A and go hysterical if I try and explain A was playing with it and really we share the toys – as I've said previously, on the whole he is not that concerned with the toys – breaks them easily and is not particularly upset at this. Anyway – this is an examaple which happened before. A was playing with a torch that was origianally a present for L a few months ago but that A has played with a lot and L hasn't minded before – well he started shouting before as A had it about how it was his toy and A couldn't play with it , he wrestled it off A and A was really upset – I was in the kitchen at the time as my mum was with them – so my mum took it off L and put it high up on a shelf – so then they are both screaming and I really don't know what to do and felt under pressure more cos my mum was there too (who is very critical of how I parent generally) so I gave it to L not letting A see and told L that if he didn't want A to play with it then he should go and hide it somewhere A cant find it. He generally puts things he doesn't want A to play with on a high shelf in his room. But I felt really bad on A and wondered whether I had done the right thing and my mum expressed her disgust at my actions and said I should have told L that A was playing with it and that was that. I'm really interested in how others would have handled this? This `type' of situation comes up a lot and usually L gets the best of the situations cos A is more easily distracted but it does feel unfair on him and I wonder whether I'm doing the right thing . My mum always says that L dictates what we all do, me my husband and A, like he is in charge, I think that I just don't force him to do what he doesn't want to do and use negotiation and discussion with him instead of lying down the law – but I worry maybe my mum is right. I'm not predisposed to listen to her advice cos she is very much of the opinion `children should do as they are told whether they like it or not' she's very controlling and `my way or the high way' type of person but I worry if I should be listening to her. I'm so confused!!!

I would appreciate any advice on this stuff – sorry it's so long but its probably a years worth of questions finally compiled out of determination!
Karen

Joyce Fetteroll

On Aug 4, 2010, at 8:51 AM, kazglc wrote:

I see big connections throughout all of what you wrote so I won't
address each item.

First, have you read Siblings Without Rivalry? If you have, I bet it's
time for a reread.

Second, I'd guess at least part of your 5 yos requests are things he
sees as acts of love, some of which are being taken away or curtailed
because of the 2 yo. It's not that he's demanding. He's saying he's
feeling displaced and unloved. And I'm guessing you're responding to
his request for love with irritation, even if you're trying to hide
it. (So, see #1 above.)

What might help are spontaneous acts of love. If doing things for him
feels like love, spontaneously do things for him. Don't wait for him
to ask! Fill his bucket.

Yes, there might be multiple things going on. If he's high energy, he
needs a lot of movement. That's not something you can change for
anyone else's convenience. A mini-trampoline might help, but getting
him out for large body movements as much as you can possibly squeeze
into the day will help even more.

As for toys belonging to everyone ... Sharing as some ideal is
overrated. It's probably most effective to help kids decide what they
want to share and what they want to keep for themselves rather than
declaring everything for sharing or letting a child decide while in
the midst strong emotions.

If the things belong to everyone, then everyone gets to decide. (Which
would be pretty chaotic if not everyone agrees!) What you really mean
-- what your actions and words say -- is all the toys belong to you so
you get to decide that everyone can use them. Do you see the difference?

Ownership is often equated with selfishness. But people can't ever
decide to share if they don't have anything to share. They also can't
make the decision to keep things nice, or take things apart to use for
other purposes, or not share, or decide they're done with it and give
it away. You've made all those decisions for them. What you have is a
lot like communism where everything belongs to "The People" (which
ultimately meant the government, and in this case you) and the goal
was to make everything equal.

Joyce

plaidpanties666

"kazglc" <kazzarat@...> wrote:
>> One thing that causes me constant self doubt and irritation is that he refuses to do anything for himself
*************

Some kids want a lot of help, a lot longer than others. It can be a way of getting more attention, a way of feeling loved and cherished, or be a way of expressing insecurity about growing up. Be gentle with him about this. At the same time - how much are you bending over backwards to meet his needs? A little is good, but if its wearing you down and getting in the way of the other child's needs, that's not so good.

>>I must unlatch A, to A's dislike

Must? What about "I'm happy to get if for you as soon as A is done" and then maybe commiserate about being the "big brother". Tell nice stories about when L was the baby, invite him to come cuddle while you nurse, be warm and inviting.

Finding ways to say Yes more doesn't mean never saying No. There are limits and boundaries in life. Its good for parents to realize they can stretch those, its not so good to drop those boundaries entirely - it will wear you out! That won't help either of your kids.

>>all he would have to do...

You wrote that a couple times. It will help to step away from that kind of thinking, resentful thinking. He wants his mommy. That's sweet. Mommy's not always available, but you can tell him so sweetly. Something that helped Morgan when she was younger was for me to do a sort of "count down" to when I would be available - I'd say "yes, I'll be there when I'm done making a sandwich, yes, I'm spreading the mayonaise, yes, I'm adding the lettuce, yes, I'm cutting the crust, yes! I'm coming right this moment Thank You! for your patience." Sixty whole seconds can be a loooooong time for a little child to wait, and even Mo, who wasn't a fan of lots of words, liked to know I hadn't forgotten her and was still coming in those long, agonizing moments of waiting.

> Another thing L does is destroy toys a lot

Some kids do. With Ray, we learned to get most things with the assumption that they would be broken, and things we wanted to preserve were put away for special occasions, when someone else could care for that item. Mo's much less destructive than Ray - she has naturally more finesse in the way she handles things, and she explores differently, she puzzles where Ray smashes to get information. That's not something that's related to numbers of toys or parenting, necessarily, as Ray had less toys and was conventionally parented when he was little.

>> our house is bursting with toys, so although some of them will have been bought for L and some for A we tend to say they are all to share.
***************

That's baffling and upsetting to little kids, who can see "sharing" as "the other person is stealing My things". Its often easier to have clear delineations - A's toys, L's toys, and "family toys" - or "mom's toys" if that seems to make better sense to the kids.

Having "mom's toys" is a partial solution to the toy breaking issue, too. Nicer toys, more expensive or more delicate, can be "mom's toys" and unavailable unless an adult is ready to facilitate.

There seems to be a theme, running through these questions of you wondering if you should say yes or no, when most of the time there's more options than that.

---Meredith

[email protected]

Hi, Karen;

I had a post regarding a needy 4.75 years old boy the other day.

I recognize some similar behavior with my DS4.75.

Here are some of the things I do:
1. About playing with your breasts. DS4.75 likes to play with my elbows. When he is tired or needs some reassurance, he will play with my elbows. ( I am guessing the habit is from me carrying him to sleep in a baby carrier a lot). So I think it is like a lovey for comfort and reassurance. Of course, elbows are easier to access in public than breasts. I put here just to remind you your son plays with your body part maybe for the same reason.

2. DS4.75 asked me to do many things that could be easily done by himself. I had the same doubt you had. Now I see he does that for more attention. So I try my best to help.

He asks me to dress him, feed him and do other things. If I tell him to get dressed, most of the time, he will say, Mama, you do it. But if I put his clothes or food near him and casually mention it and walk away, he will get dressed or feed himself.

You may give it a try?

Joy
-

Sandra Dodd

I'm going to piggyback on Joyce's post. (Just got back from an outing
with Holly.)

-=-. If he's high energy, he
needs a lot of movement. That's not something you can change for
anyone else's convenience. A mini-trampoline might help, but getting
him out for large body movements as much as you can possibly squeeze
into the day will help even more.-=-

http://sandradodd.com/physicality/
A page of physical things kids can do that moms might be too tired to
think of!

Sandra




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Sandra Dodd

-=-I've read nearly every gentle parenting book I can lay my hands on
since he was born. He has always been an intense personality and I
struggle all the time with knowing how to handle the stuff he does.-=-

Reading 100 books about parenting babies might be worse than reading
five books, because it takes twenty times as long.
I think if people just read without trying those things out and seeing
what works and make sense for them, they would have done better to
have spent the time directly with the children.

I think it's partly because of school that people think reading books
about being parents is what makes good parents. I'm not saying there
aren't some great ideas in books. Whole Child, Whole Parent gave me
lots of ideas when Kirby was a baby. The Heart Has its own Reasons,
a La Leche League book about being a stay at home mom helped me.
Teach Your Own; all the issues I could find of Growing WIthout
Schooling.

But they only work if the mom reads some and then tries it out. They
work when the mom's thinking is honed and clarified.

-=- I struggle all the time-=-

I'm not trying to make light of struggling, but if you struggle all
the time, the only thing to do is to relax.
http://sandradodd.com/breathing

Struggling is making it a struggle.

Sandra






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