note from Kirby's supervisor
Sandra Dodd
Kirby has a new supervisor at work. I just got a note from her:
"I just wanted to send you an email letting you know I purchased a
copy of your book at Kirby's recommendation. :) I'm his new
supervisor at work, and we were talking about the fact that you
'unschooled' him. My best friend Mike is currently going to school
for a teaching degree and he wrote a paper on the subject, which we
both found very interesting. I also wanted to add that Kirby is the
first 'home-schooled' person I've met who didn't exude social
awkwardness from every pore, well done you! Seriously, he's a
sweetheart and a pleasure to work with. You must be very proud! :D
Anyways, I decided to buy your book for Mike as part of his birthday
gift so he can learn more about the topic from an expert. "
As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers who
exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.
I don't want to argue with someone who's totally bragging up my kid,
y'know... but I did want to check with some other people.
Sandra
"I just wanted to send you an email letting you know I purchased a
copy of your book at Kirby's recommendation. :) I'm his new
supervisor at work, and we were talking about the fact that you
'unschooled' him. My best friend Mike is currently going to school
for a teaching degree and he wrote a paper on the subject, which we
both found very interesting. I also wanted to add that Kirby is the
first 'home-schooled' person I've met who didn't exude social
awkwardness from every pore, well done you! Seriously, he's a
sweetheart and a pleasure to work with. You must be very proud! :D
Anyways, I decided to buy your book for Mike as part of his birthday
gift so he can learn more about the topic from an expert. "
As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers who
exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.
I don't want to argue with someone who's totally bragging up my kid,
y'know... but I did want to check with some other people.
Sandra
Pam Sorooshian
On 7/19/2010 1:19 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
out of school to homeschool than kids who are functioning well in school.
-pam
> As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers whoReally nice note!!
> exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.
>Kids with serious social problems are probably more likely to get taken
> I don't want to argue with someone who's totally bragging up my kid,
> y'know... but I did want to check with some other people.
out of school to homeschool than kids who are functioning well in school.
-pam
organicmom111
*As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers who
exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.*
Not one. I started a homeschool soccer league last spring and had the pleasure of meeting 60 or so kids (plus siblings and families) from all age groups. (we even fielded a U19 team, so I had players from age 4 to 19 :) While I am in the middle of bible country (no offense anyone!) and most of these kids are not necessarily 'unschoolers' (like my family is)(okay - none of them are :) , I found them all a joy to be around. It was the most amazing group of kids. We had (have) coed teams and to see the older kids together without the usual steryotypical 'teenager' type behavior was refreshing. They were fantastic 'young adults' who did not seem worried about dating and gossiping, or embarrased at hanging out with their families, etc ... they just all had a great time being together. Its a very recreational league (but we play against the various schools) and we had all the teams practice at the same park with multiple fields, on the same date, etc..... we had one family with 7 kids and they all got to play due to this convienience. The families could watch ALL their kids practice at the same time, same place, and it was such a great environment. (and a very diverse group)
I heard my mom say something about a 'nerdy' kid recently, and boy did she get an earful :) I just dont think like that, and dont appreciate people who do. I wonder how many people wouldnt say those 'socially awkward' comments if they didnt know in advance that the kids were homeschooled. I feel most of these comments in general represent the 'high school' mentality that unfortunaltely most cant shake upon graduation. We all know those adults who seem like they are still in attendance socially. :)
exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.*
Not one. I started a homeschool soccer league last spring and had the pleasure of meeting 60 or so kids (plus siblings and families) from all age groups. (we even fielded a U19 team, so I had players from age 4 to 19 :) While I am in the middle of bible country (no offense anyone!) and most of these kids are not necessarily 'unschoolers' (like my family is)(okay - none of them are :) , I found them all a joy to be around. It was the most amazing group of kids. We had (have) coed teams and to see the older kids together without the usual steryotypical 'teenager' type behavior was refreshing. They were fantastic 'young adults' who did not seem worried about dating and gossiping, or embarrased at hanging out with their families, etc ... they just all had a great time being together. Its a very recreational league (but we play against the various schools) and we had all the teams practice at the same park with multiple fields, on the same date, etc..... we had one family with 7 kids and they all got to play due to this convienience. The families could watch ALL their kids practice at the same time, same place, and it was such a great environment. (and a very diverse group)
I heard my mom say something about a 'nerdy' kid recently, and boy did she get an earful :) I just dont think like that, and dont appreciate people who do. I wonder how many people wouldnt say those 'socially awkward' comments if they didnt know in advance that the kids were homeschooled. I feel most of these comments in general represent the 'high school' mentality that unfortunaltely most cant shake upon graduation. We all know those adults who seem like they are still in attendance socially. :)
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Kirby has a new supervisor at work. I just got a note from her:
>
> "I just wanted to send you an email letting you know I purchased a
> copy of your book at Kirby's recommendation. :) I'm his new
> supervisor at work, and we were talking about the fact that you
> 'unschooled' him. My best friend Mike is currently going to school
> for a teaching degree and he wrote a paper on the subject, which we
> both found very interesting. I also wanted to add that Kirby is the
> first 'home-schooled' person I've met who didn't exude social
> awkwardness from every pore, well done you! Seriously, he's a
> sweetheart and a pleasure to work with. You must be very proud! :D
> Anyways, I decided to buy your book for Mike as part of his birthday
> gift so he can learn more about the topic from an expert. "
>
>
> As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers who
> exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.
>
> I don't want to argue with someone who's totally bragging up my kid,
> y'know... but I did want to check with some other people.
>
> Sandra
>
Bernadette Lynn
On 19 July 2010 21:19, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
sisters and I don't think any of us are more socially awkward than anyone
else I've met - all six of us are married which I think implies a certain
amount of ability to form relationships.
Having said that I know - online - a fair number of people who are home
educating children because their 'socially awkward' behaviour made them
unable to function in school; autistic children, for example. I expect a
number of them will still be socially awkward when they're adult.
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I'll start by saying the only adult homeschoolers I've ever met are my
>
> As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers who
> exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.
>
> I don't want to argue with someone who's totally bragging up my kid,
> y'know... but I did want to check with some other people.
>
> Sandra
>
>
sisters and I don't think any of us are more socially awkward than anyone
else I've met - all six of us are married which I think implies a certain
amount of ability to form relationships.
Having said that I know - online - a fair number of people who are home
educating children because their 'socially awkward' behaviour made them
unable to function in school; autistic children, for example. I expect a
number of them will still be socially awkward when they're adult.
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 19, 2010, at 4:19 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
homeschoolers doing the hide behind mom in social situations when
their schooled counterparts have often been told clearly that's not
acceptable anymore.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I don't want to argue with someone who's totally bragging up my kid,If she was referring to younger ones, I've seen shy grade-school-age
> y'know... but I did want to check with some other people.
homeschoolers doing the hide behind mom in social situations when
their schooled counterparts have often been told clearly that's not
acceptable anymore.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Beverly
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>I wish in no way to sound disrespectful of any one, but there have been times when my kids would comment on some homeschooler they met that was "Too weird"...their words not mine. On thinking about those kids, they were almost always from school-at-home, strict, fundemental christian families, and had had very limited social experiences and general contact with regular daily activities. I would also have to say that a few of the parents would also fall under that description as well.
> Kirby has a new supervisor at work. I just got a note from her:
> As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers who
> exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.
>
> I don't want to argue with someone who's totally bragging up my kid,
> y'know... but I did want to check with some other people.
>
> Sandra
>
Katy Jennings
====have the rest of you met homeschoolers who exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.====
Oh I have, not unschoolers, but homeschoolers absolutely. Most of their parents are very strict, very religious, school-at-homers.
I can think of 3 families that I know personally, and then quite a few of the local homeschool group are like that. They fit the stereotype of the awkward, shy, geeky homeschooler to a T. And in one of the families, the only child (of 7) who was not like that was a real bully. She was so mean to my son (and the mom didn't care, "just kids") that we avoided the family as much as we could (they went to my son's TaeKwonDo academy). They were Air Force, moved to Germany.
But yes, I think that before going to an unschooling conference, I had actually met more homeschoolers that were like that than were not.
Katy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Oh I have, not unschoolers, but homeschoolers absolutely. Most of their parents are very strict, very religious, school-at-homers.
I can think of 3 families that I know personally, and then quite a few of the local homeschool group are like that. They fit the stereotype of the awkward, shy, geeky homeschooler to a T. And in one of the families, the only child (of 7) who was not like that was a real bully. She was so mean to my son (and the mom didn't care, "just kids") that we avoided the family as much as we could (they went to my son's TaeKwonDo academy). They were Air Force, moved to Germany.
But yes, I think that before going to an unschooling conference, I had actually met more homeschoolers that were like that than were not.
Katy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Oh yes... I have met socially awkward homeschoolers! Several. But none
of them are unschoolers that I know of.
I am in a homeschooling region where it's not even blinked at to say
"we homeschool Johnny." Unschooling is a very different story, just
like most unschooling parents have probably discovered.
~Katherine
of them are unschoolers that I know of.
I am in a homeschooling region where it's not even blinked at to say
"we homeschool Johnny." Unschooling is a very different story, just
like most unschooling parents have probably discovered.
~Katherine
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> Kirby has a new supervisor at work. I just got a note from her:
>
> "I just wanted to send you an email letting you know I purchased a
> copy of your book at Kirby's recommendation. :) I'm his new
> supervisor at work, and we were talking about the fact that you
> 'unschooled' him. My best friend Mike is currently going to school
> for a teaching degree and he wrote a paper on the subject, which we
> both found very interesting. I also wanted to add that Kirby is the
> first 'home-schooled' person I've met who didn't exude social
> awkwardness from every pore, well done you! Seriously, he's a
> sweetheart and a pleasure to work with. You must be very proud! :D
> Anyways, I decided to buy your book for Mike as part of his birthday
> gift so he can learn more about the topic from an expert. "
>
>
> As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers who
> exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.
>
> I don't want to argue with someone who's totally bragging up my kid,
> y'know... but I did want to check with some other people.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
aldq75
Unfortunately, I do "know" a very awkward homeschool grad, but I only know her online. At least three times each week, she posts in a very public forum about her social anxieties and problems. She seems afraid of all relationships.
From what she writes, "homeschool" means "at home with no outside socialization" for her family. It seems to be a case of a parent applying their social anxieties to the children in the home.
Andrea Q
From what she writes, "homeschool" means "at home with no outside socialization" for her family. It seems to be a case of a parent applying their social anxieties to the children in the home.
Andrea Q
Jenny Cyphers
***As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers who
exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.***
To the same extent that I've met awkward school kids! Honestly, I find it way
more awkward to pass teenagers in the park and have them exude that "ew parents"
and "I'm a cool teenager" vibe. I find that very off putting! Something that
very few homeschoolers do. I guess if you are an adult who is used to talking
to kids as if they are "less than", you may find homeschoolers put you in a
socially awkward position. They may actually expect you to talk to them as if
they are real people, and not "kids" or "teenagers". That makes some adults
feel very awkward!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.***
To the same extent that I've met awkward school kids! Honestly, I find it way
more awkward to pass teenagers in the park and have them exude that "ew parents"
and "I'm a cool teenager" vibe. I find that very off putting! Something that
very few homeschoolers do. I guess if you are an adult who is used to talking
to kids as if they are "less than", you may find homeschoolers put you in a
socially awkward position. They may actually expect you to talk to them as if
they are real people, and not "kids" or "teenagers". That makes some adults
feel very awkward!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
In this case, I would definitely think it's not the homeschooling but
the parent's worldview, which the kids are probably obliged to agree
to. With schoolthink, it's not much different. Kids, whether they're
homeschoolers or not, might behave or seem to feel as though they have
a separation to maintain. To some degree, that is natural just because
there *are* differences. There IS a great deal of diversity. And like
Jenny says, some people aren't comfortable with that.
It doesn't matter whether someone is school-at-home, unschooling or at
public/private/charter/boarding school, it's possible to cultivate a
feeling that the children and parents are part of this world. Maybe
not everybody can do that.
It's also just as possible to cultivate a feeling that
children/parents are separate from large areas in a world of
diversity, and are perhaps a cut above. Social awkwardness can be
exaggerated by fears of different unknowns. Almost anybody can do
that.
~Katherine
the parent's worldview, which the kids are probably obliged to agree
to. With schoolthink, it's not much different. Kids, whether they're
homeschoolers or not, might behave or seem to feel as though they have
a separation to maintain. To some degree, that is natural just because
there *are* differences. There IS a great deal of diversity. And like
Jenny says, some people aren't comfortable with that.
It doesn't matter whether someone is school-at-home, unschooling or at
public/private/charter/boarding school, it's possible to cultivate a
feeling that the children and parents are part of this world. Maybe
not everybody can do that.
It's also just as possible to cultivate a feeling that
children/parents are separate from large areas in a world of
diversity, and are perhaps a cut above. Social awkwardness can be
exaggerated by fears of different unknowns. Almost anybody can do
that.
~Katherine
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Katy Jennings <kjennings95@...> wrote:
>
> ====have the rest of you met homeschoolers who exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.====
> Oh I have, not unschoolers, but homeschoolers absolutely. Most of their parents are very strict, very religious, school-at-homers.
> I can think of 3 families that I know personally, and then quite a few of the local homeschool group are like that. They fit the stereotype of the awkward, shy, geeky homeschooler to a T. And in one of the families, the only child (of 7) who was not like that was a real bully. She was so mean to my son (and the mom didn't care, "just kids") that we avoided the family as much as we could (they went to my son's TaeKwonDo academy). They were Air Force, moved to Germany.
>
> But yes, I think that before going to an unschooling conference, I had actually met more homeschoolers that were like that than were not.
> Katy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
dinapug310
> > As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers whoThe timing of this couldn't be more appropriate for me.
> > exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.
I was at our playgroup just last week, three 4 year olds and my daughter, just about to turn 3. We all met at La Leche and formed the group as the kids grew. All of the kids are in or heading to school already and the moms asked if I still plan to homeschool. (I told them about unschooling some time ago, but they didn't reference it, just homeschooling). When I said yes, one of the moms informed me that all of the homeschooled kids she met in college were absolutely socially bizarre. To which another mom responded that perhaps they came from very religious and strict homes.
It was all news to me that made me scratch my head. I wondered, for a moment, what I would have to do to avoid such a future description of my daughter. Then I let it go.
Dina
Robin Bentley
> Unfortunately, I do "know" a very awkward homeschool grad, but IMaybe that's what people are worried about when they say "well, what
> only know her online. At least three times each week, she posts in a
> very public forum about her social anxieties and problems. She seems
> afraid of all relationships.
>
> From what she writes, "homeschool" means "at home with no outside
> socialization" for her family. It seems to be a case of a parent
> applying their social anxieties to the children in the home.
about socialization?"
Robin B.
Deb Lewis
*** homeschoolers who exuded social awkwardness from every pore?***
I think Dylan may be thought by some to be socially awkward. I don't see it as awkwardness so much as a dislike of foolishness. There are some people he's not interested in talking to. That used to bother me but then I considered that as an adult he would be talking to the people he wanted to and avoiding people he didn't. He has very little patience with bullshit and with people who are full of themselves. I don't think it's awful that he doesn't bother with them.
I used to be worried that people would think he was socially awkward and that would reflect badly on me.<g> But when I think about the times he's avoided some situations or some people I can see that he had good reason. There are family members he'd rather not see. I'm ok with that. They're really aren't a pleasure to be with. We have one friend he actively avoids. She has had a lot of hardship and in that way that some injured people survive by becoming self obsessed she is so full of herself that it's hard to talk with her. And she draws her injuries like a dagger in the course of conversation so that, no matter what the topic, it comes round to her particular suffering. I understand how she got that way. It doesn't make her easier to be around.
And we have a family member who is all new agey and LoA-ish and has an agenda every time she talks, especially with young people, she sees herself as a guide. Dylan avoids her. He does not like her leading questions. Of the two she seems more socially awkward, not understanding or caring she's crossing personal boundaries.
So what is awkward? If you have nothing in common with a crowd of young people who are using language for shock value and say things they think sound cool and you're not interested in hearing about the latest kegger and who puked, are you socially awkward? If you don't want to answer questions that are none of the questioner's business, does that make you socially awkward? If a person is just so full of shit you don't want to talk to them, are you socially awkward? I think some people expect to be found fascinating, no matter how obnoxious or offensive they really are, and if someone doesn't find them so, that person must be socially awkward.
Dylan really enjoys talking with intelligent, clever people. He doesn't enjoy crowds of people. He doesn't enjoy small talk and silliness. Maybe that qualifies him as socially awkward but he's ok with it. <g> If he was older and rich and successful he'd be called "discerning" instead of ""socially awkward. <g>
The people I know personally who are the most socially awkward were public schooled. Because socialization has been the boogeyman of homeschooling for decades, shy or introverted people who were homeschooled must have been made shy and introverted by the homeschooling. Shy or introverted people in school were just weirdo's.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think Dylan may be thought by some to be socially awkward. I don't see it as awkwardness so much as a dislike of foolishness. There are some people he's not interested in talking to. That used to bother me but then I considered that as an adult he would be talking to the people he wanted to and avoiding people he didn't. He has very little patience with bullshit and with people who are full of themselves. I don't think it's awful that he doesn't bother with them.
I used to be worried that people would think he was socially awkward and that would reflect badly on me.<g> But when I think about the times he's avoided some situations or some people I can see that he had good reason. There are family members he'd rather not see. I'm ok with that. They're really aren't a pleasure to be with. We have one friend he actively avoids. She has had a lot of hardship and in that way that some injured people survive by becoming self obsessed she is so full of herself that it's hard to talk with her. And she draws her injuries like a dagger in the course of conversation so that, no matter what the topic, it comes round to her particular suffering. I understand how she got that way. It doesn't make her easier to be around.
And we have a family member who is all new agey and LoA-ish and has an agenda every time she talks, especially with young people, she sees herself as a guide. Dylan avoids her. He does not like her leading questions. Of the two she seems more socially awkward, not understanding or caring she's crossing personal boundaries.
So what is awkward? If you have nothing in common with a crowd of young people who are using language for shock value and say things they think sound cool and you're not interested in hearing about the latest kegger and who puked, are you socially awkward? If you don't want to answer questions that are none of the questioner's business, does that make you socially awkward? If a person is just so full of shit you don't want to talk to them, are you socially awkward? I think some people expect to be found fascinating, no matter how obnoxious or offensive they really are, and if someone doesn't find them so, that person must be socially awkward.
Dylan really enjoys talking with intelligent, clever people. He doesn't enjoy crowds of people. He doesn't enjoy small talk and silliness. Maybe that qualifies him as socially awkward but he's ok with it. <g> If he was older and rich and successful he'd be called "discerning" instead of ""socially awkward. <g>
The people I know personally who are the most socially awkward were public schooled. Because socialization has been the boogeyman of homeschooling for decades, shy or introverted people who were homeschooled must have been made shy and introverted by the homeschooling. Shy or introverted people in school were just weirdo's.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
When Holly was younger than two (I remember, because Delta let her fly
free) she and I went to Georgia for an SCA event. So Kirby was seven,
and we'd been unschooling for two years. I was being picked up by a
friend who had a small house, who had arranged for us to stay with a
friend of his who had a bigger, nicer house. I was a little nervous
about that, but willing.
We pulled up there and a boy came out, maybe 11 or 12. He was
wearing highwater jeans, worn out jeans. He smiled and introduced
himself and offered to carry my suitcase.
At that time I had no experience with unschooling a kid that old,
though I knew a few kids nearly his age. i was still full of
memories of the way 7th graders acted, though, and he was about that
age.
I went in, met his mom, and when the boy walked away I said, "He's
homeschooled, right?" She said, "How did you know!?"
I could tell because he talked to me like a human talks to a human.
He was nice, direct, not second-guessing himself, not self-conscious.
And he wasn't embarrassed about his clothes not being fashionable or
not "fitting him right." He wasn't unschooled; they were Chrisitan
homeschoolers, but neither strict nor fundamentalist.
I've seen my own kids be that way many times since. There have been
people who guessed that my kids were homeschooling, even without
meeting them out in public during school hours. <g>
I don't guess I doubt there are "unsocialized" kids. I just don't
think I've met any.
Sandra
free) she and I went to Georgia for an SCA event. So Kirby was seven,
and we'd been unschooling for two years. I was being picked up by a
friend who had a small house, who had arranged for us to stay with a
friend of his who had a bigger, nicer house. I was a little nervous
about that, but willing.
We pulled up there and a boy came out, maybe 11 or 12. He was
wearing highwater jeans, worn out jeans. He smiled and introduced
himself and offered to carry my suitcase.
At that time I had no experience with unschooling a kid that old,
though I knew a few kids nearly his age. i was still full of
memories of the way 7th graders acted, though, and he was about that
age.
I went in, met his mom, and when the boy walked away I said, "He's
homeschooled, right?" She said, "How did you know!?"
I could tell because he talked to me like a human talks to a human.
He was nice, direct, not second-guessing himself, not self-conscious.
And he wasn't embarrassed about his clothes not being fashionable or
not "fitting him right." He wasn't unschooled; they were Chrisitan
homeschoolers, but neither strict nor fundamentalist.
I've seen my own kids be that way many times since. There have been
people who guessed that my kids were homeschooling, even without
meeting them out in public during school hours. <g>
I don't guess I doubt there are "unsocialized" kids. I just don't
think I've met any.
Sandra
Emily S
>Yes, I have. I was close to being one of them myself and I only homeschooled for four years. I got brownie points with adults for being polite, engaging in adult conversation, and being mature. But I was also very shy and didn't make friends with other kids easily for lack of much experience, which in many people's opinion is "socially awkward." Once I went to private school for a year, I came out of my shell to do just fine socially in public highschool.
> As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers who
> exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.
>
> Sandra
However, I was homeschooled with my best friend, and she and I hardly got to go anywhere. We really had no extra curricular activities and no other friends. In our parent's defense, we lived in a very small town with limited opportunities. Still, they could have done more to give us more time with other kids. But that is the stereotypical homeschool horror story and I still managed to come out just fine in the end. My kids have many, many more opportunities for social interaction and I won't be making that mistake with them!
I have also met socially awkward private schooled and public schooled kids. Lots of socially awkward public schooled kids in fact. It's a combination of personality, social opportunities, parental guidance in social situations. And some kids who are awkward it's just an stage (actually most kids probably go through this at some point) and then they mature.
Emily
organicmom111
So you went to public school for 8years and only homeschooled for 4? yet you associate your social awkwardness with the homeschooling portion? I would be careful to apply the term 'socially awkward' to people who are shy. shyness is just that sometimes- shyness. On another group someone mentioned their 'shy ' child and the responses of 'oh they might have autism, or this or that ' were just baffling. Its ok to be shy, and many are, and it usually has nothing to do with being homeschooled or awkward.
--- In [email protected], "Emily S" <saturnfire16@...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers who
> > exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.
>
> >
> > Sandra
>
>
> Yes, I have. I was close to being one of them myself and I only homeschooled for four years. I got brownie points with adults for being polite, engaging in adult conversation, and being mature. But I was also very shy and didn't make friends with other kids easily for lack of much experience, which in many people's opinion is "socially awkward." Once I went to private school for a year, I came out of my shell to do just fine socially in public highschool.
>
> However, I was homeschooled with my best friend, and she and I hardly got to go anywhere. We really had no extra curricular activities and no other friends. In our parent's defense, we lived in a very small town with limited opportunities. Still, they could have done more to give us more time with other kids. But that is the stereotypical homeschool horror story and I still managed to come out just fine in the end. My kids have many, many more opportunities for social interaction and I won't be making that mistake with them!
>
> I have also met socially awkward private schooled and public schooled kids. Lots of socially awkward public schooled kids in fact. It's a combination of personality, social opportunities, parental guidance in social situations. And some kids who are awkward it's just an stage (actually most kids probably go through this at some point) and then they mature.
>
> Emily
>
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "Beverly" <elwazani@...> wrote:
Bob
>I was reading something a few days ago that made similar observations about homeschooled children who are "hothoused". Especially when the hothousing is in the direction of a single objective: the parents want their child to be not just "world class" but world class at something in particular, usually something with high social status. It seems most of these children turn out a little weird at best.
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@> wrote:
> >
> > Kirby has a new supervisor at work. I just got a note from her:
> > As nice as the note is, have the rest of you met homeschoolers who
> > exuded social awkwardness from every pore? I haven't.
> >
> > I don't want to argue with someone who's totally bragging up my kid,
> > y'know... but I did want to check with some other people.
> >
> > Sandra
> >
> I wish in no way to sound disrespectful of any one, but there have been times when my kids would comment on some homeschooler they met that was "Too weird"...their words not mine. On thinking about those kids, they were almost always from school-at-home, strict, fundemental christian families, and had had very limited social experiences and general contact with regular daily activities. I would also have to say that a few of the parents would also fall under that description as well.
>
Bob
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "Deb Lewis" <d.lewis@...> wrote:
>BRAVO! Stands and applaudes.
> *** homeschoolers who exuded social awkwardness from every pore?***
>
> I think Dylan may be thought by some to be socially awkward. I don't see it as awkwardness so much as a dislike of foolishness. There are some people he's not interested in talking to. That used to bother me but then I considered that as an adult he would be talking to the people he wanted to and avoiding people he didn't. He has very little patience with bullshit and with people who are full of themselves. I don't think it's awful that he doesn't bother with them.
>
> I used to be worried that people would think he was socially awkward and that would reflect badly on me.<g> But when I think about the times he's avoided some situations or some people I can see that he had good reason. There are family members he'd rather not see. I'm ok with that. They're really aren't a pleasure to be with. We have one friend he actively avoids. She has had a lot of hardship and in that way that some injured people survive by becoming self obsessed she is so full of herself that it's hard to talk with her. And she draws her injuries like a dagger in the course of conversation so that, no matter what the topic, it comes round to her particular suffering. I understand how she got that way. It doesn't make her easier to be around.
>
> And we have a family member who is all new agey and LoA-ish and has an agenda every time she talks, especially with young people, she sees herself as a guide. Dylan avoids her. He does not like her leading questions. Of the two she seems more socially awkward, not understanding or caring she's crossing personal boundaries.
>
> So what is awkward? If you have nothing in common with a crowd of young people who are using language for shock value and say things they think sound cool and you're not interested in hearing about the latest kegger and who puked, are you socially awkward? If you don't want to answer questions that are none of the questioner's business, does that make you socially awkward? If a person is just so full of shit you don't want to talk to them, are you socially awkward? I think some people expect to be found fascinating, no matter how obnoxious or offensive they really are, and if someone doesn't find them so, that person must be socially awkward.
>
> Dylan really enjoys talking with intelligent, clever people. He doesn't enjoy crowds of people. He doesn't enjoy small talk and silliness. Maybe that qualifies him as socially awkward but he's ok with it. <g> If he was older and rich and successful he'd be called "discerning" instead of ""socially awkward. <g>
>
> The people I know personally who are the most socially awkward were public schooled. Because socialization has been the boogeyman of homeschooling for decades, shy or introverted people who were homeschooled must have been made shy and introverted by the homeschooling. Shy or introverted people in school were just weirdo's.
>
> Deb Lewis
>
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
-=- was reading something a few days ago that made similar
observations about homeschooled children who are "hothoused".
Especially when the hothousing is in the direction of a single
objective: the parents want their child to be not just "world class"
but world class at something in particular, usually something with
high social status. It seems most of these children turn out a little
weird at best. -=-
I wonder whether it's not genetic, then, to some degree in that group
as a whole. If the parents are operating so robotically that they see
no value in social skills, perhaps it's because they themselves don't
have any.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
observations about homeschooled children who are "hothoused".
Especially when the hothousing is in the direction of a single
objective: the parents want their child to be not just "world class"
but world class at something in particular, usually something with
high social status. It seems most of these children turn out a little
weird at best. -=-
I wonder whether it's not genetic, then, to some degree in that group
as a whole. If the parents are operating so robotically that they see
no value in social skills, perhaps it's because they themselves don't
have any.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
> -=- was reading something a few days ago that made similarYou can see that, too, in families whose kids go to a particular
> observations about homeschooled children who are "hothoused".
> Especially when the hothousing is in the direction of a single
> objective: the parents want their child to be not just "world class"
> but world class at something in particular, usually something with
> high social status. It seems most of these children turn out a little
> weird at best. -=-
>
> I wonder whether it's not genetic, then, to some degree in that group
> as a whole. If the parents are operating so robotically that they see
> no value in social skills, perhaps it's because they themselves don't
> have any.
>
private school, an important college, or pursue a high profile
profession. Their parents want a certain outcome, so maybe in addition
to lack of social skills, there's a huge element of control.
Robin B.
m_kher
*** When I said yes, one of the moms informed me that all of the homeschooled kids she met in college were absolutely socially bizarre. ***
One thing I've noticed about homeschooled kids is that they're often quirky. They don't have a peer group to make them be "normal" and fit in. They can wear unusual clothes or have unusual hobbies. I'm sure some of this will come across as bizarre to other kids in College.
Manisha
One thing I've noticed about homeschooled kids is that they're often quirky. They don't have a peer group to make them be "normal" and fit in. They can wear unusual clothes or have unusual hobbies. I'm sure some of this will come across as bizarre to other kids in College.
Manisha
gloriabluestocking
>> The people I know personally who are the most socially awkward were public schooled. Because socialization has been the boogeyman of homeschooling for decades, shy or introverted people who were homeschooled must have been made shy and introverted by the homeschooling. Shy or introverted people in school were just weirdo's.Deb Lewis <<
I'm afraid I have become one of those people who was public schooled and is socially awkward. I'm an introvert by nature, however the way I coped with public school was forcing myself to *act* very extroverted. I did this *acting* through to about 11th grade, but was so exhausted by pretending to be someone I wasn't for fear of being one of those "weirdo" kids, that I sort of burnt out, and cut off most of my friendships, and stopped pursuing a very social life.
Those years of not listening to myself, and putting myself out there when I really just wanted to read off in a corner, are still being processed 7+ years later (eg. I only just realized I'm a true introvert, thanks to an article link posted here the other day~). I find I'm *very* protective of my personal space to the point where I either don't engage much in social settings, or I feel somehow like I'm 'acting'.
Reading all you unschooler's posts, it comes across that you're all so 'with it' and confident, over your baggage etc.
In deschooling myself in preparation of unschooling my son (who is still a baby, although I have *lots* of deschooling to do which this list has been very helpful with), do you think it's imperative to overcome my awkwardness around socializing? Do I first have to become "baggage-free" before unschooling will work for my family?
Thanks,
Jenny R
Vicki Dennis
One thing I have not seen in all these replies is the observation that
"sometimes" homeschooled kids don't wear a scarlet HS.
The mom below may have unknowingly met lots of homeschooled kids in college
but never thought to ask their status if she did not find them socially
bizarre AND said kids may have seen no need to constantly announce their
religious views, sexual orientation, former educational status, or city of
origin.
One of our family stories concerns when my oldest (now 31) was attending
community college and a professor asked him where he went to high school.
My not out as an unschooler or as hearing impaired son's response was
"why"? Turns out professor wanted to know how my son had such great math
intuition and wondered how he was "taught". My son did come out to that
professor and they had some good talks about how much damage needed to be
undone for students with years and years of arithmetic and supposed
mathematics pushed in high school. Even back then part of the reason not
to come out was no desire to be linked to some of the school at home
weirdos.
vicki
P.S.: Yes, "some" homeschooled kids are socially awkward in institutional
settings. Some institutionalized kids are awkward in real world
settings. And sometimes siblings in very similar home environments end up
with different levels of social comfort. Next?
"sometimes" homeschooled kids don't wear a scarlet HS.
The mom below may have unknowingly met lots of homeschooled kids in college
but never thought to ask their status if she did not find them socially
bizarre AND said kids may have seen no need to constantly announce their
religious views, sexual orientation, former educational status, or city of
origin.
One of our family stories concerns when my oldest (now 31) was attending
community college and a professor asked him where he went to high school.
My not out as an unschooler or as hearing impaired son's response was
"why"? Turns out professor wanted to know how my son had such great math
intuition and wondered how he was "taught". My son did come out to that
professor and they had some good talks about how much damage needed to be
undone for students with years and years of arithmetic and supposed
mathematics pushed in high school. Even back then part of the reason not
to come out was no desire to be linked to some of the school at home
weirdos.
vicki
P.S.: Yes, "some" homeschooled kids are socially awkward in institutional
settings. Some institutionalized kids are awkward in real world
settings. And sometimes siblings in very similar home environments end up
with different levels of social comfort. Next?
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 12:09 PM, m_kher <m_kher@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> *** When I said yes, one of the moms informed me that all of the
> homeschooled kids she met in college were absolutely socially bizarre. ***
>
> One thing I've noticed about homeschooled kids is that they're often
> quirky. They don't have a peer group to make them be "normal" and fit in.
> They can wear unusual clothes or have unusual hobbies. I'm sure some of this
> will come across as bizarre to other kids in College.
>
> Manisha
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Almost any college art department can make hay of people's ideas of
"normal." :) There can be lots of quirky ideas in such places. A
unique expression through media, dance and other arts is a good thing
in an art department. For more mainstream "fit in" people, getting in
touch with and appreciate one's quirky ways is often a reason to be in
an art department. The artists who work I admired so much were
probably considered a bit bizarre by most people.
~Katherine
"normal." :) There can be lots of quirky ideas in such places. A
unique expression through media, dance and other arts is a good thing
in an art department. For more mainstream "fit in" people, getting in
touch with and appreciate one's quirky ways is often a reason to be in
an art department. The artists who work I admired so much were
probably considered a bit bizarre by most people.
~Katherine
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:09 PM, m_kher <m_kher@...> wrote:
>
> *** When I said yes, one of the moms informed me that all of the homeschooled kids she met in college were absolutely socially bizarre. ***
>
> One thing I've noticed about homeschooled kids is that they're often quirky. They don't have a peer group to make them be "normal" and fit in. They can wear unusual clothes or have unusual hobbies. I'm sure some of this will come across as bizarre to other kids in College.
>
> Manisha
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
k
>>>In deschooling myself in preparation of unschooling my son (who is still a baby, although I have *lots* of deschooling to do which this list has been very helpful with), do you think it's imperative to overcome my awkwardness around socializing? Do I first have to become "baggage-free" before unschooling will work for my family?<<<Unschooling is enabling me to both accept that I even have baggage and
simultaneously work through and unpack it. At the same time, this
email list isn't therapy but the thinking I do as a result of reading
it is very therapeutic indeed for me.
There's no clear line between not ready for unschooling and ready to
go with it ---other than a person's interest level and ability to be
honest with about how it works in relation to what could change in
oneself so that unschooling is free to take place. For me, there were
sooooo many changes that have taken place and more that are still
taking place.
~Katherine
plaidpanties666
"gloriabluestocking" <gloriabluestocking@...> wrote:
Good grief, no! While personal baggage can get in the way of relationships, its also part of being human - and our kids are human, growing up with human needs and human baggage. Watching parents work through personal junk can be really helpful for kids with junk of their own.
If your awkwardness is getting in your kids' way, that's something to look for solutions for - but overcoming your awkwardness is only one way for that to happen. Finding other people who can support your kids in social situations is another. And some kids have a whole lot of "social intelligence" to begin with - that can be a solution right there. Think of yourself as a potential limit - how can you help your kids get what they want around that limit?
---Meredith
>Do I first have to become "baggage-free" before unschooling will work for my family?********************
Good grief, no! While personal baggage can get in the way of relationships, its also part of being human - and our kids are human, growing up with human needs and human baggage. Watching parents work through personal junk can be really helpful for kids with junk of their own.
>>do you think it's imperative to overcome my awkwardness around socializing?****************
If your awkwardness is getting in your kids' way, that's something to look for solutions for - but overcoming your awkwardness is only one way for that to happen. Finding other people who can support your kids in social situations is another. And some kids have a whole lot of "social intelligence" to begin with - that can be a solution right there. Think of yourself as a potential limit - how can you help your kids get what they want around that limit?
> In deschooling myself in preparation of unschooling my sonKeep in mind that you probably won't be "done" deschooling before your son gets to "school age". There may well be issues that come up when he's 5, 7, 15... that you won't even think about before-hand, or that you'll think "I can handle that" until faced with the reality of your kids mirroring your bad habits and least-lovable traits at you (eeek!). Its takes a bit of personal growth to start unschooling, but unschooling is also a wonderful source of personal growth for parents.
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-In deschooling myself in preparation of unschooling my son (who is
still a baby, although I have *lots* of deschooling to do which this
list has been very helpful with), do you think it's imperative to
overcome my awkwardness around socializing? Do I first have to become
"baggage-free" before unschooling will work for my family?-=-
It's not "imperative to overcome it," but it sure does help that
you're aware of it and thinking about it!
You don't need to be "baggage free" but if you were totally in baggage
denial, unschooling probably wouldn't come along easily.
I didn't find the page I was looking for, about parents dealing with
their issues and problems, but found this:
Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
http://www.sandradodd.com/peace/becoming.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
still a baby, although I have *lots* of deschooling to do which this
list has been very helpful with), do you think it's imperative to
overcome my awkwardness around socializing? Do I first have to become
"baggage-free" before unschooling will work for my family?-=-
It's not "imperative to overcome it," but it sure does help that
you're aware of it and thinking about it!
You don't need to be "baggage free" but if you were totally in baggage
denial, unschooling probably wouldn't come along easily.
I didn't find the page I was looking for, about parents dealing with
their issues and problems, but found this:
Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
http://www.sandradodd.com/peace/becoming.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Emily S
--- In [email protected], "organicmom111" <cksah@...> wrote:
Yes, I was also naturally shy, however I felt more socially comfortable in K-4th grade in private school and later in private school and public highschool than I did in those 4 years of homeschooling. This is not a reflection on homeschooling necessarily, this is a reflection on a combination of my natural personality combined with little opportunity for social interaction during those homeschooling years.
In that small town, with few activities available outside of school, and religious parents who may or may not have approved of non-religious friends, it is entirely possible I would have had the same experience had I attended public school for those few years. After all, public school *in itself* is not a great place for social interaction. Those opportunities come up after school and in sports and girl scouts etc. Things I did not do. When I was younger the opportunities came through the church we went to the ran the private school, but that was no longer an option during those 4 homeschooled years.
In my other post I also said that I have met socially awkward public schooled kids and that it is a combination of factors. Those were the combination of factors *for me* that led to social awkwardness.
Emily
>I didn't say I was homeschooled for 4 years *therefore* I was socially awkward. I said I was homeschooled for 4 years *AND* I was socially awkward. To answer Sandra's question, yes I have met socially awkward homeschoolers.
> So you went to public school for 8years and only homeschooled for 4? yet you associate your social awkwardness with the homeschooling portion? I would be careful to apply the term 'socially awkward' to people who are shy. shyness is just that sometimes- shyness. On another group someone mentioned their 'shy ' child and the responses of 'oh they might have autism, or this or that ' were just baffling. Its ok to be shy, and many are, and it usually has nothing to do with being homeschooled or awkward.
>
Yes, I was also naturally shy, however I felt more socially comfortable in K-4th grade in private school and later in private school and public highschool than I did in those 4 years of homeschooling. This is not a reflection on homeschooling necessarily, this is a reflection on a combination of my natural personality combined with little opportunity for social interaction during those homeschooling years.
In that small town, with few activities available outside of school, and religious parents who may or may not have approved of non-religious friends, it is entirely possible I would have had the same experience had I attended public school for those few years. After all, public school *in itself* is not a great place for social interaction. Those opportunities come up after school and in sports and girl scouts etc. Things I did not do. When I was younger the opportunities came through the church we went to the ran the private school, but that was no longer an option during those 4 homeschooled years.
In my other post I also said that I have met socially awkward public schooled kids and that it is a combination of factors. Those were the combination of factors *for me* that led to social awkwardness.
Emily
Jenny Cyphers
*** Even back then part of the reason not
to come out was no desire to be linked to some of the school at home
weirdos.***
One time a guy came to our house trying to get signatures for something. I was
out doing yard work. It was a school related something or other signature and
I'd said something about not wanting to sign it because I felt that schools were
grossly over funded already and I didn't even use them anyway because my kids
were homeschooled, they were out and about and it was school hours. I honestly
don't remember the particulars, but I do remember him saying, as he followed me
around my yard, that "kids needed to be in school to learn social behavior", and
I said "NO they don't", to which he replied, "yes they do, it's just the facts
ma'am."
At that moment, I had half an inclination to spank him with my shovel or
whatever it was I was holding. I was thinking about how rude it was for him to
argue with me in MY yard trying to get me to sign his petition after I'd already
said "no". Gosh, he must have learned those social skills in school!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to come out was no desire to be linked to some of the school at home
weirdos.***
One time a guy came to our house trying to get signatures for something. I was
out doing yard work. It was a school related something or other signature and
I'd said something about not wanting to sign it because I felt that schools were
grossly over funded already and I didn't even use them anyway because my kids
were homeschooled, they were out and about and it was school hours. I honestly
don't remember the particulars, but I do remember him saying, as he followed me
around my yard, that "kids needed to be in school to learn social behavior", and
I said "NO they don't", to which he replied, "yes they do, it's just the facts
ma'am."
At that moment, I had half an inclination to spank him with my shovel or
whatever it was I was holding. I was thinking about how rude it was for him to
argue with me in MY yard trying to get me to sign his petition after I'd already
said "no". Gosh, he must have learned those social skills in school!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]