partnering with my child & toileting
Karen Buxcel
Hello, all! Wonderful to be here. I've read at UB and AU for a long time,
and am absolutely gaining so much from reading here, now, too. I'm a new
list member, but have been glued to the list since I've joined. I love it!
:)
Ok, here's the sitch. My 8yo son poops in his pants often. As an infant,
he pooped only every few days (wholly breastfed, so I wasn't concerned) and
he's kept that habit through to now. It concerns me now, obviously, since
he eats solid food and probably should be eliminating every day, at least.
His pattern is that he'll hold it, hold, it, hold it, then it will start to
come out on it's own, because there is only so much room in ones body for
feces. So, for many days, he will have 3 or 4 times per day that he's got
'skid marks', and more. He will eventually poop on the toilet, but only
after several days of going in his pants.
I think right now it's been at least 7 days that he hasn't pooped a healthy
turd. He's had to change his shorts/undies 3 to 4 times each day (on the
days that he'll take my suggestion to change, some days he will just say
no). For instance, the other day he had very stinky pants, he was very
stinky, and he was outside playing with a couple neighborhood boys. I don't
want anybody teasing him, or hurting his feelings, or shaming him, so of
course, I ask him if I can help him clean up. "No" Then I say "I can
really smell you and if I can smell you, your friends can probably smell
you, too" He doesn't seem to care, so out he goes to play. I feel like I
am doing a terrible job at taking care of him and protecting him. This is
my biggest concern. I can deal with washing poop clothes every day, I just
don't want him to be hurt. How far should I go, what do I say to him to
help him?
What I need is suggestions on how to maintain a partnership with him through
this (i'm certain I've already done things that were damaging, like saying
"you can't go outside anymore today until you go poop" and I've said that
because if he's near me, I can watch him and cue him when i see that he's
feeling the urge)
We've been trying things for a long time. (looking at diet, adding in
fiber, mineral oil, warm baths, homeopathics, optional disposable undies)
At this point, I'm not really looking for the *cause* of why he is doing it,
I just really want ideas on how to keep myself in the right frame of mind so
that I approach the situation with as much kindness and compassion as
possible. (which will likely have positive effects on the whole situation,
anyway)
I could write a long time on this issue, but will stop here so that others
can ask questions which will then open up more discussion, or allow me to
expand on a point if needed.
Thank you for taking the time to read and help!
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and am absolutely gaining so much from reading here, now, too. I'm a new
list member, but have been glued to the list since I've joined. I love it!
:)
Ok, here's the sitch. My 8yo son poops in his pants often. As an infant,
he pooped only every few days (wholly breastfed, so I wasn't concerned) and
he's kept that habit through to now. It concerns me now, obviously, since
he eats solid food and probably should be eliminating every day, at least.
His pattern is that he'll hold it, hold, it, hold it, then it will start to
come out on it's own, because there is only so much room in ones body for
feces. So, for many days, he will have 3 or 4 times per day that he's got
'skid marks', and more. He will eventually poop on the toilet, but only
after several days of going in his pants.
I think right now it's been at least 7 days that he hasn't pooped a healthy
turd. He's had to change his shorts/undies 3 to 4 times each day (on the
days that he'll take my suggestion to change, some days he will just say
no). For instance, the other day he had very stinky pants, he was very
stinky, and he was outside playing with a couple neighborhood boys. I don't
want anybody teasing him, or hurting his feelings, or shaming him, so of
course, I ask him if I can help him clean up. "No" Then I say "I can
really smell you and if I can smell you, your friends can probably smell
you, too" He doesn't seem to care, so out he goes to play. I feel like I
am doing a terrible job at taking care of him and protecting him. This is
my biggest concern. I can deal with washing poop clothes every day, I just
don't want him to be hurt. How far should I go, what do I say to him to
help him?
What I need is suggestions on how to maintain a partnership with him through
this (i'm certain I've already done things that were damaging, like saying
"you can't go outside anymore today until you go poop" and I've said that
because if he's near me, I can watch him and cue him when i see that he's
feeling the urge)
We've been trying things for a long time. (looking at diet, adding in
fiber, mineral oil, warm baths, homeopathics, optional disposable undies)
At this point, I'm not really looking for the *cause* of why he is doing it,
I just really want ideas on how to keep myself in the right frame of mind so
that I approach the situation with as much kindness and compassion as
possible. (which will likely have positive effects on the whole situation,
anyway)
I could write a long time on this issue, but will stop here so that others
can ask questions which will then open up more discussion, or allow me to
expand on a point if needed.
Thank you for taking the time to read and help!
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I've read at UB and AU for a long time,-=-
Please write out things like that for the benefit of newer members. I
don't like abbreviations that seem like mysterious jargon others
aren't in on. Also please avoid "RU" and other such secret codes. It
helps with clarity.
-=-His pattern is that he'll hold it, hold, it, hold it, then it will
start to
come out on it's own, because there is only so much room in ones body
for
feces. So, for many days, he will have 3 or 4 times per day that he's
got
'skid marks', and more. He will eventually poop on the toilet, but only
after several days of going in his pants.-=-
Kirby had that problem. He said once when he was four or five "I wish
poop never existed." He just hated the whole thing.
He grew out of it.
If you can find something that makes him go, give it to him. For
Holly, there's one certain kind of citrus soda (she's asleep so I
can't ask) that does the trick. For me, bacon and eggs. If you can
experiment with foods and pay attention to what will loosen that up,
you can avoid laxatives.
In the case of waiting four days, I would recommend something not too
chemical. Milk of Magnesia is traditional and used once a year or so
isn't going to hurt anybody. Even once a month. I wouldn't want to
recommend it as a regular thing.
Impacted bowels hurt more than any drug will.
But you might find a food. Smoothies, maybe, with fruit. Throw a
prune or two in there, or plums. Prunes are the magic fruit, though.
But please don't assume that he "should be" going once a day. Some
people don't.
Don't shame him. He will grow out of it faster with acceptance than
with rejection.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Please write out things like that for the benefit of newer members. I
don't like abbreviations that seem like mysterious jargon others
aren't in on. Also please avoid "RU" and other such secret codes. It
helps with clarity.
-=-His pattern is that he'll hold it, hold, it, hold it, then it will
start to
come out on it's own, because there is only so much room in ones body
for
feces. So, for many days, he will have 3 or 4 times per day that he's
got
'skid marks', and more. He will eventually poop on the toilet, but only
after several days of going in his pants.-=-
Kirby had that problem. He said once when he was four or five "I wish
poop never existed." He just hated the whole thing.
He grew out of it.
If you can find something that makes him go, give it to him. For
Holly, there's one certain kind of citrus soda (she's asleep so I
can't ask) that does the trick. For me, bacon and eggs. If you can
experiment with foods and pay attention to what will loosen that up,
you can avoid laxatives.
In the case of waiting four days, I would recommend something not too
chemical. Milk of Magnesia is traditional and used once a year or so
isn't going to hurt anybody. Even once a month. I wouldn't want to
recommend it as a regular thing.
Impacted bowels hurt more than any drug will.
But you might find a food. Smoothies, maybe, with fruit. Throw a
prune or two in there, or plums. Prunes are the magic fruit, though.
But please don't assume that he "should be" going once a day. Some
people don't.
Don't shame him. He will grow out of it faster with acceptance than
with rejection.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Hi Karen,
I guess he still suffers from Encopresis and as long as he has severe
constipation the problem will not be resolved.
Its a medical problem and he really cannot stop the soliling.
I think you told me a while ago that he would not take any medication for it.
If natural fibers, water and natural remedies are not working, it may be time
to use some medication that will help him.
For anyone that wants to read about Encopresis:
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Encopresis
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I guess he still suffers from Encopresis and as long as he has severe
constipation the problem will not be resolved.
Its a medical problem and he really cannot stop the soliling.
I think you told me a while ago that he would not take any medication for it.
If natural fibers, water and natural remedies are not working, it may be time
to use some medication that will help him.
For anyone that wants to read about Encopresis:
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Encopresis
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bernadette Lynn
On 14 July 2010 16:34, Karen Buxcel <thewildtribe@...> wrote:
Does 'we' include your son? Does he see this a problem to be solved or as a
problem you have with something he isn't bothered by? A problem you have
with him?
We spent a while grappling with this - our daughter would go up to five
weeks without passing a stool and we dealt with it probably very badly
following the advice of her paediatrician: pessaries which I gave up almost
immediately as it seemed abusive; coercing and bribing the poor child to
swallow vast amounts of laxatives several times a day for weeks on end until
she couldn't keep them down.
In hindsight things which helped and which I still feel were right were
feeding her as many chocolate raisins as she wanted (though not when they
were bribes to let us do dreadful things to her), giving her pantyliners to
keep clean so she didn't have to wear nappies, making sure she had a
constant supply of flushable wipes to make cleaning herself easier and more
comfortable and possibly most importantly making sure she got plenty to
drink - when we stopped trying to limit the sugar in her drinks and instead
gave her as much squash as she wanted she began to drink far more than she
had before.
Constipation is not a nice thing to have but it's not something he does
deliberately; try and help him deal with those physical symptoms that bother
both of you and forget about trying to change his behaviour or toilet
habits. Those will change when he's able to change.
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>------------------
>
>
> We've been trying things for a long time. (looking at diet, adding in
> fiber, mineral oil, warm baths, homeopathics, optional disposable undies)
>
Does 'we' include your son? Does he see this a problem to be solved or as a
problem you have with something he isn't bothered by? A problem you have
with him?
We spent a while grappling with this - our daughter would go up to five
weeks without passing a stool and we dealt with it probably very badly
following the advice of her paediatrician: pessaries which I gave up almost
immediately as it seemed abusive; coercing and bribing the poor child to
swallow vast amounts of laxatives several times a day for weeks on end until
she couldn't keep them down.
In hindsight things which helped and which I still feel were right were
feeding her as many chocolate raisins as she wanted (though not when they
were bribes to let us do dreadful things to her), giving her pantyliners to
keep clean so she didn't have to wear nappies, making sure she had a
constant supply of flushable wipes to make cleaning herself easier and more
comfortable and possibly most importantly making sure she got plenty to
drink - when we stopped trying to limit the sugar in her drinks and instead
gave her as much squash as she wanted she began to drink far more than she
had before.
Constipation is not a nice thing to have but it's not something he does
deliberately; try and help him deal with those physical symptoms that bother
both of you and forget about trying to change his behaviour or toilet
habits. Those will change when he's able to change.
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 7/14/2010 1:49 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:
-pam
>Gummy Bears. Sugar-free jelly bellies. Sorbitol.
> I think you told me a while ago that he would not take any medication
> for it.
> If natural fibers, water and natural remedies are not wo
-pam
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Pam gave me an idea.
What about using xylitol for baking and instead of sugar?
It will help him if he is Ok with it.
It tastes like sugar, is good for his teeth and acts like sorbitol.
If you do start slowly as it can really make them loose.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What about using xylitol for baking and instead of sugar?
It will help him if he is Ok with it.
It tastes like sugar, is good for his teeth and acts like sorbitol.
If you do start slowly as it can really make them loose.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dan Voyer
Okay, I can totally relate to this. My eldest daughter did this from the age of 2 until the age of about 5. It was stressful for me to see her so uncomfortable, and knowing she could end the discomfort by just "doing" it. I spent a few years trying to encourage her to choose to move her bowels instead of holding on. A few times she held it in so long she was plugged and was in terrible pain.
We found out that some children (herself included) often get diahrea from drinking too much apple juice. I think that is what originally caused the whole problem, because she had diahrea so bad one night she was swimming in it, and we had to give her a bath. She was disgusted. Anyways, it was fear or disgust based, and the way I finally dealt with it was to realize there was nothing I could do to convince her...I just had to let go and trust she would get over it when she was ready. Somehow accepting that fact took the stress away for me, and it all became easier. I'm sure she sensed that I was less stressed as well, and it may have helped.
Hope it ends soon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We found out that some children (herself included) often get diahrea from drinking too much apple juice. I think that is what originally caused the whole problem, because she had diahrea so bad one night she was swimming in it, and we had to give her a bath. She was disgusted. Anyways, it was fear or disgust based, and the way I finally dealt with it was to realize there was nothing I could do to convince her...I just had to let go and trust she would get over it when she was ready. Somehow accepting that fact took the stress away for me, and it all became easier. I'm sure she sensed that I was less stressed as well, and it may have helped.
Hope it ends soon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
One of the side effects is painful gas, especially when used to do
something like sweeten a whole cake, where a lot more sweetener is
needed. I only know this because an elderly relative tried it.
Definitely use sugar alcohols in small quantities. Some people even
develop severe problems from eating, for instance, too much sorbitol.
Which funnily enough has supposedly been used as amateur rocket fuel.
(wow)
~Katherine
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:32 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
something like sweeten a whole cake, where a lot more sweetener is
needed. I only know this because an elderly relative tried it.
Definitely use sugar alcohols in small quantities. Some people even
develop severe problems from eating, for instance, too much sorbitol.
Which funnily enough has supposedly been used as amateur rocket fuel.
(wow)
~Katherine
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:32 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
> Pam gave me an idea.
> What about using xylitol for baking and instead of sugar?
> It will help him if he is Ok with it.
> It tastes like sugar, is good for his teeth and acts like sorbitol.
> If you do start slowly as it can really make them loose.
>
>
> Alex Polikowsky
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
k
More accurately... it's been used as an ingredient in amateur rocket
fuel (if the info is correct in this wiki under Miscellaneous Uses:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbitol#Overdose_effects).
~Katherine
fuel (if the info is correct in this wiki under Miscellaneous Uses:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbitol#Overdose_effects).
~Katherine
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 8:46 PM, k <katherand@...> wrote:
> One of the side effects is painful gas, especially when used to do
> something like sweeten a whole cake, where a lot more sweetener is
> needed. I only know this because an elderly relative tried it.
>
> Definitely use sugar alcohols in small quantities. Some people even
> develop severe problems from eating, for instance, too much sorbitol.
> Which funnily enough has supposedly been used as amateur rocket fuel.
> (wow)
>
> ~Katherine
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:32 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
> <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>> Pam gave me an idea.
>> What about using xylitol for baking and instead of sugar?
>> It will help him if he is Ok with it.
>> It tastes like sugar, is good for his teeth and acts like sorbitol.
>> If you do start slowly as it can really make them loose.
>>
>>
>> Alex Polikowsky
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Jenny Cyphers
***His pattern is that he'll hold it, hold, it, hold it, then it will start to
come out on it's own, because there is only so much room in ones body for
feces. So, for many days, he will have 3 or 4 times per day that he's got
'skid marks', and more. He will eventually poop on the toilet, but only
after several days of going in his pants.***
My first thought, is that he's lucky he's not a girl! That is exactly the kind
of thing that causes UTI's!
Does he actually poop in his pants or does he only do the skid marks? I was
confused by that. If it's the skid marks, I'd let it go and continue washing
clothing. Perhaps showering everyday would help to, and having wipes by the
toilet. If he is actually pooping in his pants, I'd make every effort to do
regular bathroom breaks, followed by a glass of water.
Can he tell if he needs to go? I wonder if he feels pressure. Maybe his
muscles aren't developed to where he can't help it, or feel it, or keep it from
coming out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
come out on it's own, because there is only so much room in ones body for
feces. So, for many days, he will have 3 or 4 times per day that he's got
'skid marks', and more. He will eventually poop on the toilet, but only
after several days of going in his pants.***
My first thought, is that he's lucky he's not a girl! That is exactly the kind
of thing that causes UTI's!
Does he actually poop in his pants or does he only do the skid marks? I was
confused by that. If it's the skid marks, I'd let it go and continue washing
clothing. Perhaps showering everyday would help to, and having wipes by the
toilet. If he is actually pooping in his pants, I'd make every effort to do
regular bathroom breaks, followed by a glass of water.
Can he tell if he needs to go? I wonder if he feels pressure. Maybe his
muscles aren't developed to where he can't help it, or feel it, or keep it from
coming out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***What about using xylitol for baking and instead of sugar?***
This is off topic, but make sure you don't feed any leftovers to pets! A good
friend of ours was using xylitol for exactly this reason, the dog got into
leftovers and died as a result of the liver failure it caused.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is off topic, but make sure you don't feed any leftovers to pets! A good
friend of ours was using xylitol for exactly this reason, the dog got into
leftovers and died as a result of the liver failure it caused.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wtexans
Things we did with our son when he was younger that helped:
~ A bath every day. Not necessarily for the purpose of "a bath", but the side effect of sitting in a nice, warm bath and playing with toys was that the water was relaxing and playing with toys was relaxing. It was not uncommon for him to poop in the tub. We'd drain the water, clean the tub, fill it back up and let him get back in for more play time.
Over time he began to recognize that "gotta poop" feeling and would stand up quickly and ask to get on the toilet to poop, then he'd get back in the tub and keep playing with toys. I'd hang out in there with him the whole time he was in the tub, which was handy when he needed to go from tub to toilet *right now*.
~ He didn't like wiping his bottom himself and I helped him with that for a lot of years. We used wet wipes (but don't flush them, not even the flushable ones, because they snag in sewer pipes!). Wet wipes are gentler on the bottom than toilet paper. When he reached the point where he was ready to start wiping his own bottom, he continued to use wet wipes. Then he switched over to t.p. eventually.
~ We kept a stool in the bathroom that he could prop his feet on so his feet weren't dangling (the original toilet in this house was very tall - I couldn't even get my feet flat on the floor while sitting on the toilet!). Being able to get a pretty good bend in the knees makes pooping more comfortable.
~ We used one of the toilet seat inserts with handles so that he wouldn't have to work on keeping himself from falling into the toilet. He used that seat insert until he outgrew it, so it was definitely worthwhile to have around.
~ To help him get in the habit of pooping regularly, we'd take some books into the bathroom in the evenings and I'd read them while he sat on the toilet. He wouldn't often poop during the reading-in-the-bathroom visits, but my purpose for those was to help him stop everything else and focus on his body for 10 or 15 minutes.
While it didn't appear to be helpful when he was younger (pooping in the bath worked best), as he's got older he's kept the routine of trying to poop every evening, so it actually did help in the longrun.
~ If your son's anus hurts after pooping, you could wipe a small amount of diaper rash cream or Preparation-H Cooling Gel right around the anus. The Prep-H is very lubricant-y and can be wiped right up to the opening of the anus, helping smooth the way for those bigger poops to ease on out.
Glenda
~ A bath every day. Not necessarily for the purpose of "a bath", but the side effect of sitting in a nice, warm bath and playing with toys was that the water was relaxing and playing with toys was relaxing. It was not uncommon for him to poop in the tub. We'd drain the water, clean the tub, fill it back up and let him get back in for more play time.
Over time he began to recognize that "gotta poop" feeling and would stand up quickly and ask to get on the toilet to poop, then he'd get back in the tub and keep playing with toys. I'd hang out in there with him the whole time he was in the tub, which was handy when he needed to go from tub to toilet *right now*.
~ He didn't like wiping his bottom himself and I helped him with that for a lot of years. We used wet wipes (but don't flush them, not even the flushable ones, because they snag in sewer pipes!). Wet wipes are gentler on the bottom than toilet paper. When he reached the point where he was ready to start wiping his own bottom, he continued to use wet wipes. Then he switched over to t.p. eventually.
~ We kept a stool in the bathroom that he could prop his feet on so his feet weren't dangling (the original toilet in this house was very tall - I couldn't even get my feet flat on the floor while sitting on the toilet!). Being able to get a pretty good bend in the knees makes pooping more comfortable.
~ We used one of the toilet seat inserts with handles so that he wouldn't have to work on keeping himself from falling into the toilet. He used that seat insert until he outgrew it, so it was definitely worthwhile to have around.
~ To help him get in the habit of pooping regularly, we'd take some books into the bathroom in the evenings and I'd read them while he sat on the toilet. He wouldn't often poop during the reading-in-the-bathroom visits, but my purpose for those was to help him stop everything else and focus on his body for 10 or 15 minutes.
While it didn't appear to be helpful when he was younger (pooping in the bath worked best), as he's got older he's kept the routine of trying to poop every evening, so it actually did help in the longrun.
~ If your son's anus hurts after pooping, you could wipe a small amount of diaper rash cream or Preparation-H Cooling Gel right around the anus. The Prep-H is very lubricant-y and can be wiped right up to the opening of the anus, helping smooth the way for those bigger poops to ease on out.
Glenda
k
>>> If he is actually pooping in his pants, I'd make every effort to do regular bathroom breaks, followed by a glass of water.<<<The other way around might stimulate stomach/intestine nerves and
muscles. Food and/or water before. I've taken water with us IN the
bathroom.
~Katherine
On 7/15/10, Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
> ***His pattern is that he'll hold it, hold, it, hold it, then it will start
> to
> come out on it's own, because there is only so much room in ones body for
> feces. So, for many days, he will have 3 or 4 times per day that he's got
> 'skid marks', and more. He will eventually poop on the toilet, but only
> after several days of going in his pants.***
>
> My first thought, is that he's lucky he's not a girl! That is exactly the
> kind
> of thing that causes UTI's!
>
> Does he actually poop in his pants or does he only do the skid marks? I was
> confused by that. If it's the skid marks, I'd let it go and continue
> washing
> clothing. Perhaps showering everyday would help to, and having wipes by the
> toilet. If he is actually pooping in his pants, I'd make every effort to do
> regular bathroom breaks, followed by a glass of water.
>
> Can he tell if he needs to go? I wonder if he feels pressure. Maybe his
> muscles aren't developed to where he can't help it, or feel it, or keep it
> from
> coming out.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Another OT but necessary.
YES Jenny.
Keep cats and dogs away from xylitol, grapes, raisins, chocolate and onions.
Those can be toxic , specially for some animals more than others!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
YES Jenny.
Keep cats and dogs away from xylitol, grapes, raisins, chocolate and onions.
Those can be toxic , specially for some animals more than others!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wtexans
===To help him get in the habit of pooping regularly, we'd take some books into the bathroom in the evenings and I'd read them while he sat on the toilet.===
To clarify, I'd read the books to him . . . not just sit in there and read them silently to myself while he sat on the toilet <g> (which is the image that popped into my head when I reread my post).
Glenda
To clarify, I'd read the books to him . . . not just sit in there and read them silently to myself while he sat on the toilet <g> (which is the image that popped into my head when I reread my post).
Glenda