Using force with toddlers
tamara.needham
I have been reading a lot of articles and books related to unschooling philosophies in parenting. I keep trying to find ways to apply these ideas to our current situation but everything seems to use examples with children 2.5 and up. Our daughter is 18 months old and often I am finding I need to use force to control her occasionally. This breaks my heart but in the situations it seems like there is nothing else I can do. So I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for the following scenarios or is she simply to young still?
Whenever it's time to get in the car I have to force her into the car seat, she fights me with all her might.
It's the same struggle when changing her diaper, or trying to get her to sit in her chair for mealtimes. It didn't used to be a fight but it keeps seeming to get worse.
If anyone can help that would be great.
Whenever it's time to get in the car I have to force her into the car seat, she fights me with all her might.
It's the same struggle when changing her diaper, or trying to get her to sit in her chair for mealtimes. It didn't used to be a fight but it keeps seeming to get worse.
If anyone can help that would be great.
Sandra Dodd
-=- Our daughter is 18 months old and often I am finding I need to use
force to control her occasionally.-=-
Don't think of it as "force to control."
Think of safety and cleanliness. Find ways to distract her, sing to
her, lure her toward instead of wresting her from. It will get
easier as she gets older.
For putting on jackets, don't try to shove the hand through the arm.
Reach through the sleeve and hold her hand with a couple of fingers,
and pull it through. She will be reaching toward you.
For car seats, sometimes I would take food or juice or music out
there, and so the child would be going toward something nice. If you
live where it's really hot, bring the carseat in, maybe, or take
something cold out (zip-loc bag of ice maybe) and wipe it on the seat
so it's cool. Maybe give the cold thing to the baby to old. (Maybe a
refrigerated "corn bag" or some such would be nice to hold and play
with.)
For diapers, look on baby sites for lots of ideas. Changing diapers
isn't really an unschooling topic, and it's not something you can
leave up to the child much. You can still go with principles of
comfort and quiet and gentle handling, and aim for those even if you
can't always succeed. We used to sing or tell stories during diaper
changes. Just telling the story of what had been happening in the
hours before would be recognizeable and while the baby was listening
really hard, the diaper would get changed.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
force to control her occasionally.-=-
Don't think of it as "force to control."
Think of safety and cleanliness. Find ways to distract her, sing to
her, lure her toward instead of wresting her from. It will get
easier as she gets older.
For putting on jackets, don't try to shove the hand through the arm.
Reach through the sleeve and hold her hand with a couple of fingers,
and pull it through. She will be reaching toward you.
For car seats, sometimes I would take food or juice or music out
there, and so the child would be going toward something nice. If you
live where it's really hot, bring the carseat in, maybe, or take
something cold out (zip-loc bag of ice maybe) and wipe it on the seat
so it's cool. Maybe give the cold thing to the baby to old. (Maybe a
refrigerated "corn bag" or some such would be nice to hold and play
with.)
For diapers, look on baby sites for lots of ideas. Changing diapers
isn't really an unschooling topic, and it's not something you can
leave up to the child much. You can still go with principles of
comfort and quiet and gentle handling, and aim for those even if you
can't always succeed. We used to sing or tell stories during diaper
changes. Just telling the story of what had been happening in the
hours before would be recognizeable and while the baby was listening
really hard, the diaper would get changed.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AlexS
> Changing diapershttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
> isn't really an unschooling topic, and it's not something you can
> leave up to the child much.
The Always Unschooled group is primarily for folks trying to use unschooling principles to parent kids who are not yet school age. You can find many, many strategies for all the challenges you mention by searching the archives for something like "carseat" or "diaper change."
Alex
mama to Katya, 3 yrs
Karen Buxcel
For the carseat, can you find something interesting for her to hold,
look at, do, eat while buckling her in? Do you have a TV/DVD player
you could set up for her?
For diapering, leave it off. Or change her while she is standing,
busy and happily playing with something. (or, leave it off! My
favorite solution to this one!)
For sitting at mealtimes, don't make her sit. Allow her to move,
come, and go as she wishes. Create a lower to the floor table that
suits her perfectly for standing while eating and playing.
I wonder who ever made up that rule, anyway! That we *must sit* while
we eat? Why?!?! :)
Karen
look at, do, eat while buckling her in? Do you have a TV/DVD player
you could set up for her?
For diapering, leave it off. Or change her while she is standing,
busy and happily playing with something. (or, leave it off! My
favorite solution to this one!)
For sitting at mealtimes, don't make her sit. Allow her to move,
come, and go as she wishes. Create a lower to the floor table that
suits her perfectly for standing while eating and playing.
I wonder who ever made up that rule, anyway! That we *must sit* while
we eat? Why?!?! :)
Karen
On 7/13/10, tamara.needham <tamaraneedham@...> wrote:
> I have been reading a lot of articles and books related to unschooling
> philosophies in parenting. I keep trying to find ways to apply these ideas
> to our current situation but everything seems to use examples with children
> 2.5 and up. Our daughter is 18 months old and often I am finding I need to
> use force to control her occasionally. This breaks my heart but in the
> situations it seems like there is nothing else I can do. So I am wondering
> if anyone has suggestions for the following scenarios or is she simply to
> young still?
> Whenever it's time to get in the car I have to force her into the car seat,
> she fights me with all her might.
> It's the same struggle when changing her diaper, or trying to get her to sit
> in her chair for mealtimes. It didn't used to be a fight but it keeps
> seeming to get worse.
> If anyone can help that would be great.
>
>
--
...pure
.....potent
.......healing
www.BeWellOrganics.com
plaidpanties666
"tamara.needham" <tamaraneedham@...> wrote:
It can help to take some time and think about your goals. Is your goal for her to do what you want when you want her to do it? If so, she's telling you pretty clearly that she's not always capable of doing that - maybe because of her age, or temperament, or a combination of those. If you can step away from that goal, you'll find you have more options!
Slow down. Expect everything you do with your young children to take a lot of time. Plan that into your life - because everything Is taking more time than you want it to, right? Step back and let things take even longer.
Slow down. See that you're part of the fight - and you can choose not to be. Does the diaper have to be changed exactly right now in exactly one way? Does she have to sit exactly in that chair at exactly that time? All the examples you gave are of the sorts of things that could really grate on the nerves of a busy toddler - they want to go, go, go all the time, not stop and be confined at someone else's say so. So look for ways to accomodate that go, go, go.
Bring her snacks and finger-foods while she plays. If a family meal is super-important, find ways to make that fun for her - and making sure she's had plenty to eat beforehand is one way to do that. Have some fun game or activity for "meal time" so that hanging out at the table is something she'll enjoy doing, rather than trying to combine it with food and not lining up with her natural apetite, making the meal a chore for her. Alternately, make dinner something special for you and your dh without an expectation that the kids join you - invite them, but don't expect them.
Look for alternatives in changing her diaper - have you tried changing her standing? That can work well for busy, active kids who don't want to stop for a change. You could look into different kinds of diapers to see if any of those give her more of a sense of control over the situation - that's often a big issue in diapering, since kids can feel so out of control when they're "being changed". Give her options - maybe she'd feel better about things if she got to pick the diaper, or take it off herself, or go bare for awhile. Maybe she'd like to be the one to decide when its "time".
She could also need time to play In the car - do you ever do that? Just sit in the car and let her explore? That can help. She might need time to play for awhile before getting in her seat, kind of a slower transition.
---Meredith
>So I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for the following scenarios or is she simply to young still?**************
It can help to take some time and think about your goals. Is your goal for her to do what you want when you want her to do it? If so, she's telling you pretty clearly that she's not always capable of doing that - maybe because of her age, or temperament, or a combination of those. If you can step away from that goal, you'll find you have more options!
Slow down. Expect everything you do with your young children to take a lot of time. Plan that into your life - because everything Is taking more time than you want it to, right? Step back and let things take even longer.
> It's the same struggle when changing her diaper, or trying to get her to sit in her chair for mealtimes. It didn't used to be a fight but it keeps seeming to get worse.***************
Slow down. See that you're part of the fight - and you can choose not to be. Does the diaper have to be changed exactly right now in exactly one way? Does she have to sit exactly in that chair at exactly that time? All the examples you gave are of the sorts of things that could really grate on the nerves of a busy toddler - they want to go, go, go all the time, not stop and be confined at someone else's say so. So look for ways to accomodate that go, go, go.
Bring her snacks and finger-foods while she plays. If a family meal is super-important, find ways to make that fun for her - and making sure she's had plenty to eat beforehand is one way to do that. Have some fun game or activity for "meal time" so that hanging out at the table is something she'll enjoy doing, rather than trying to combine it with food and not lining up with her natural apetite, making the meal a chore for her. Alternately, make dinner something special for you and your dh without an expectation that the kids join you - invite them, but don't expect them.
Look for alternatives in changing her diaper - have you tried changing her standing? That can work well for busy, active kids who don't want to stop for a change. You could look into different kinds of diapers to see if any of those give her more of a sense of control over the situation - that's often a big issue in diapering, since kids can feel so out of control when they're "being changed". Give her options - maybe she'd feel better about things if she got to pick the diaper, or take it off herself, or go bare for awhile. Maybe she'd like to be the one to decide when its "time".
> Whenever it's time to get in the car I have to force herWho decides when its "time"? Are you scooping her up and putting her in, or helping her figure out how to transition? Transitions are often hard for little ones, they need a lot of help for awhile. She might need to bring part of what she's doing into the car to help her feel more settled. Or maybe there can be super fun car games and toys to entice her out. For awhile I'd wait to go out until I could expect Mo to be ready for a snack and that was part of getting in the car: "let me get you strapped in so I can give you your snack."
She could also need time to play In the car - do you ever do that? Just sit in the car and let her explore? That can help. She might need time to play for awhile before getting in her seat, kind of a slower transition.
---Meredith
Jenny Cyphers
***Whenever it's time to get in the car I have to force her into the car seat,
she fights me with all her might.
It's the same struggle when changing her diaper, or trying to get her to sit in
her chair for mealtimes. It didn't used to be a fight but it keeps seeming to
get worse.***
These are things I DID do: We bought a new care seat, one that my daughter
picked out herself after trying many of them in the store. We stopped changing
in all the normal places and ways. On the floor, on the couch, standing up,
baths, anything but a changing table, which I used a lot when she was a baby.
We didn't enforce sitting while eating. This is all Margaux, not Chamille too,
different kids, different things worked. From a really young age, Margaux would
slither out of her high chair, even the strap to keep her in. I'd turn around
for a second and she'd be out, like magic almost. She would ONLY sit in there
if she felt like it, so we had lots of places to eat or sit on. She generally
preferred my lap, and if not my lap, wobbling around or sitting near the table,
but on the floor. All those things removed force and helped her and me get what
we needed.
My other daughter liked her car seat, her high chair and was using her potty at
18 months.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
she fights me with all her might.
It's the same struggle when changing her diaper, or trying to get her to sit in
her chair for mealtimes. It didn't used to be a fight but it keeps seeming to
get worse.***
These are things I DID do: We bought a new care seat, one that my daughter
picked out herself after trying many of them in the store. We stopped changing
in all the normal places and ways. On the floor, on the couch, standing up,
baths, anything but a changing table, which I used a lot when she was a baby.
We didn't enforce sitting while eating. This is all Margaux, not Chamille too,
different kids, different things worked. From a really young age, Margaux would
slither out of her high chair, even the strap to keep her in. I'd turn around
for a second and she'd be out, like magic almost. She would ONLY sit in there
if she felt like it, so we had lots of places to eat or sit on. She generally
preferred my lap, and if not my lap, wobbling around or sitting near the table,
but on the floor. All those things removed force and helped her and me get what
we needed.
My other daughter liked her car seat, her high chair and was using her potty at
18 months.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 7/13/2010 2:39 PM, tamara.needham wrote:
to say that, first. We DO try not to coerce, because coercion isn't a
good way to support learning, but it isn't the highest priority and not
synonymous with unschooling. There are times with an 18 month old that
swooping her up in a happy way and planting a kiss on her nose, to
distract her from something dangerous, for example, might be a good choice.
On the other hand, for the examples you gave, there are better
alternatives. Use pullups maybe? Make diaper change time more fun? Smile
more? Change her standing up if she hates lying down. Dont even try to
get her to sit for meals - just put a plate of food where she can reach
it. Your expectations might be too high.
-pam
> It's the same struggle when changing her diaper, or trying to get herUnschooling is not the same as noncoercive parenting. So - just wanted
> to sit in her chair for mealtimes. It didn't used to be a fight but it
> keeps seeming to get worse.
> If anyone can help that would be great.
to say that, first. We DO try not to coerce, because coercion isn't a
good way to support learning, but it isn't the highest priority and not
synonymous with unschooling. There are times with an 18 month old that
swooping her up in a happy way and planting a kiss on her nose, to
distract her from something dangerous, for example, might be a good choice.
On the other hand, for the examples you gave, there are better
alternatives. Use pullups maybe? Make diaper change time more fun? Smile
more? Change her standing up if she hates lying down. Dont even try to
get her to sit for meals - just put a plate of food where she can reach
it. Your expectations might be too high.
-pam
Tamara Shand
Hi Tamara,
The group has given some great responses so I'll just add one more
thing that helped me in those kinds of situations. I found it useful
to interrogate the beliefs I held about what had to happen. I had to
deschool myself before I could see alternatives.
What's going on in your head while these struggles are going on? What
messages and beliefs are coming up? Are they absolutely true? Try to
listen to the running commentary the next time you are faced with the
struggles.
For example, when I was struggling with my daughter to get her in the
stroller I was telling myself (and her) things like 'we'll never get
anywhere' or 'we're spending all on dirty city streets instead of
getting to the pretty play parks', 'or you need to sit in the
stroller' none of which was actually true. We did get to the play
parks it just took a long time and longer because I was creating a
situation in which my daughter kept losing the struggle. So I found
new routes and brought along sidewalk chalk to draw when my daughter
got tired of walking.
Maybe the messages about sitting for meal times etc are preventing you
from finding alternatives? Are there family judgements or beliefs
about the way things should be done that are tying you up? You may
find it useful to explore those beliefs and re-assess if they are
still useful for your family.
I got this idea from Naomi Aldort's SALVE technique detailed here: http://www.naturalparenting.com.au/flex/articles/7919/how-to-connect-with-your-misbehaving-child.cfm
. Though I found it hard to apply the full technique to pre-verbal
children.
All best,
Tamara
The group has given some great responses so I'll just add one more
thing that helped me in those kinds of situations. I found it useful
to interrogate the beliefs I held about what had to happen. I had to
deschool myself before I could see alternatives.
What's going on in your head while these struggles are going on? What
messages and beliefs are coming up? Are they absolutely true? Try to
listen to the running commentary the next time you are faced with the
struggles.
For example, when I was struggling with my daughter to get her in the
stroller I was telling myself (and her) things like 'we'll never get
anywhere' or 'we're spending all on dirty city streets instead of
getting to the pretty play parks', 'or you need to sit in the
stroller' none of which was actually true. We did get to the play
parks it just took a long time and longer because I was creating a
situation in which my daughter kept losing the struggle. So I found
new routes and brought along sidewalk chalk to draw when my daughter
got tired of walking.
Maybe the messages about sitting for meal times etc are preventing you
from finding alternatives? Are there family judgements or beliefs
about the way things should be done that are tying you up? You may
find it useful to explore those beliefs and re-assess if they are
still useful for your family.
I got this idea from Naomi Aldort's SALVE technique detailed here: http://www.naturalparenting.com.au/flex/articles/7919/how-to-connect-with-your-misbehaving-child.cfm
. Though I found it hard to apply the full technique to pre-verbal
children.
All best,
Tamara
Schuyler
Find ways to use the car seat less, don't go places if you don't have to, if you
can walk places more. For the times when the car seat and going in the car just
can't be avoided try and have lots of time to spend getting into the car seat.
See if you can address any of the things that may be making her uncomfortable in
the car. Simon never liked that I couldn't sit next to him when I was driving so
I held his hand as I drove and I talked and I sang and I did lots of things to
make being in the car pleasant. Lining his seat so that he was more comfortable.
Buying a new seat when the old one no longer fit him well, those things made a
difference. When David was driving I would sit next to Simon. My boobs were
(probably more so now) relatively elastic so I could nurse him as we drove. That
helped make it easier for the next trip. But there isn't much you can do to make
sure each time she likes being in the car. Make it easier, make it better and
make it rarer.
Changing her diaper is the same deal. Let her be naked more. Simon and Linnaea
loved being naked. It's summer, you can spend more time outside. Make the
changing more pleasant, more relaxed. Talk and tickle and be affectionate and
gentle.
At 18 months neither Simon nor Linnaea were sitting down at meals much. They'd
cruise with food in their hands and the dog following hopefully. They'd sat in
chairs when they were littler, but at that age they just didn't want to sit down
and eat. So I'd feed them as they moved.
At 18 months it's about helping them to move into what you need them to do next
and making sure what you need them to do is truly something you need done then
and now. When Simon was little I read Dr. Spock's book and one suggestion that I
remember was if you take a toddler for a walk expect a block to take an hour at
least. It is hard that the period that needs the most patience is the period
when you may have the least practice, you have to try and learn to go slowly to
move with less purpose and to trim those "have tos" down.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: tamara.needham <tamaraneedham@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 July, 2010 22:39:18
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Using force with toddlers
I have been reading a lot of articles and books related to unschooling
philosophies in parenting. I keep trying to find ways to apply these ideas to
our current situation but everything seems to use examples with children 2.5 and
up. Our daughter is 18 months old and often I am finding I need to use force to
control her occasionally. This breaks my heart but in the situations it seems
like there is nothing else I can do. So I am wondering if anyone has suggestions
for the following scenarios or is she simply to young still?
Whenever it's time to get in the car I have to force her into the car seat, she
fights me with all her might.
It's the same struggle when changing her diaper, or trying to get her to sit in
her chair for mealtimes. It didn't used to be a fight but it keeps seeming to
get worse.
If anyone can help that would be great.
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
can walk places more. For the times when the car seat and going in the car just
can't be avoided try and have lots of time to spend getting into the car seat.
See if you can address any of the things that may be making her uncomfortable in
the car. Simon never liked that I couldn't sit next to him when I was driving so
I held his hand as I drove and I talked and I sang and I did lots of things to
make being in the car pleasant. Lining his seat so that he was more comfortable.
Buying a new seat when the old one no longer fit him well, those things made a
difference. When David was driving I would sit next to Simon. My boobs were
(probably more so now) relatively elastic so I could nurse him as we drove. That
helped make it easier for the next trip. But there isn't much you can do to make
sure each time she likes being in the car. Make it easier, make it better and
make it rarer.
Changing her diaper is the same deal. Let her be naked more. Simon and Linnaea
loved being naked. It's summer, you can spend more time outside. Make the
changing more pleasant, more relaxed. Talk and tickle and be affectionate and
gentle.
At 18 months neither Simon nor Linnaea were sitting down at meals much. They'd
cruise with food in their hands and the dog following hopefully. They'd sat in
chairs when they were littler, but at that age they just didn't want to sit down
and eat. So I'd feed them as they moved.
At 18 months it's about helping them to move into what you need them to do next
and making sure what you need them to do is truly something you need done then
and now. When Simon was little I read Dr. Spock's book and one suggestion that I
remember was if you take a toddler for a walk expect a block to take an hour at
least. It is hard that the period that needs the most patience is the period
when you may have the least practice, you have to try and learn to go slowly to
move with less purpose and to trim those "have tos" down.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: tamara.needham <tamaraneedham@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 July, 2010 22:39:18
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Using force with toddlers
I have been reading a lot of articles and books related to unschooling
philosophies in parenting. I keep trying to find ways to apply these ideas to
our current situation but everything seems to use examples with children 2.5 and
up. Our daughter is 18 months old and often I am finding I need to use force to
control her occasionally. This breaks my heart but in the situations it seems
like there is nothing else I can do. So I am wondering if anyone has suggestions
for the following scenarios or is she simply to young still?
Whenever it's time to get in the car I have to force her into the car seat, she
fights me with all her might.
It's the same struggle when changing her diaper, or trying to get her to sit in
her chair for mealtimes. It didn't used to be a fight but it keeps seeming to
get worse.
If anyone can help that would be great.
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
>>>trying to get her to sit in her chair for mealtimes.<<<When our third was younger, we got a dinner table that has the corner style bench. It works great because my 3 year old is able to stand up and eat if she wants and so is our 18 month old. While we are eating, she will walk behind her sisters on the bench, stand up, or climb on me. My kids weren't able to consistently sit in a chair at mealtimes until they were 3 or 4 years old. Prior to that, they would stand in a chair to eat or would eat while on the go. I also have several little kid sized chairs and little tables that they choose to eat at from time to time.
The only time I use force with my toddlers is when it is a safety issue such as running out in front of cars or sitting in the car seat. I typically deal with that by trying to avoid those situations as much as possible. If I need to go somewhere and I don't have the time to find fun and silly ways of getting her in the car, I will let my husband stay home with her so that she doesn't have to be subjected to the car. My 3 year old hated the car seat for the longest time but now that she is older she will happily climb in the car seat so that she can go places.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Hi
another suggestion for the car seat problem would be to drive when the toddler sleeps. There are people who wait until their child falls asleep or is really, really tired and almost sleeping.
In my experience it is hard to predict whether tricks to help the child with being in the seat will work or not. I have experienced situations where everything was fine on the way to my destination, but bad on the way back. So I found it too unpredictable and tried to avoid the car altogether.
Bettina
another suggestion for the car seat problem would be to drive when the toddler sleeps. There are people who wait until their child falls asleep or is really, really tired and almost sleeping.
In my experience it is hard to predict whether tricks to help the child with being in the seat will work or not. I have experienced situations where everything was fine on the way to my destination, but bad on the way back. So I found it too unpredictable and tried to avoid the car altogether.
Bettina
--- In [email protected], "otherstar" <otherstar@...> wrote:
>
> >>>trying to get her to sit in her chair for mealtimes.<<<
>
> When our third was younger, we got a dinner table that has the corner style bench. It works great because my 3 year old is able to stand up and eat if she wants and so is our 18 month old. While we are eating, she will walk behind her sisters on the bench, stand up, or climb on me. My kids weren't able to consistently sit in a chair at mealtimes until they were 3 or 4 years old. Prior to that, they would stand in a chair to eat or would eat while on the go. I also have several little kid sized chairs and little tables that they choose to eat at from time to time.
>
> The only time I use force with my toddlers is when it is a safety issue such as running out in front of cars or sitting in the car seat. I typically deal with that by trying to avoid those situations as much as possible. If I need to go somewhere and I don't have the time to find fun and silly ways of getting her in the car, I will let my husband stay home with her so that she doesn't have to be subjected to the car. My 3 year old hated the car seat for the longest time but now that she is older she will happily climb in the car seat so that she can go places.
>
> Connie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Bun
For diaper changes...I switched to pull-ups because my son (now 18 months old) didn't like to be still long enough to do the cloth diaper and cover. I can change him while he stands, or he can be distracted while he lays with a ceiling fan, wipie, or favorite soft caterpillar toy. Much of the time a sibling will entertain him to help out by being silly next to where the change is happenning.
For strollers....just hold your child instead. Bring the stroller (if you want) for storage of your things or in case she may go in it later. Or, try a graham cracker or a small container of O's so she can snack while being strolled.
Re: car seat - Those graham crackers seem to do wonders for my guy. I also have a train, car, a favorite book or two and chalk (he likes to carry it around) in the car in case one of those might be more interesting than the other. If we are away on a trip and my ds gets upset in the car, my dh sits next to him and shows him things and talks to him and plays with him and that helps tremendously.
Learn to go at your ds's pace. Once when going to the park, my dd wanted to pick up rocks all along the way. This took forever and I was feeling frustrated. Then I remembered that stopping to pick up the rocks and do whatever she found interesting was what mattered, not the destination. So we put all her treasures in the wagon and took our time. We even did get to play at the park too! And when she came home, she not only had a fun time at the park, but a fun time getting there and back.
Laurie :)
For strollers....just hold your child instead. Bring the stroller (if you want) for storage of your things or in case she may go in it later. Or, try a graham cracker or a small container of O's so she can snack while being strolled.
Re: car seat - Those graham crackers seem to do wonders for my guy. I also have a train, car, a favorite book or two and chalk (he likes to carry it around) in the car in case one of those might be more interesting than the other. If we are away on a trip and my ds gets upset in the car, my dh sits next to him and shows him things and talks to him and plays with him and that helps tremendously.
Learn to go at your ds's pace. Once when going to the park, my dd wanted to pick up rocks all along the way. This took forever and I was feeling frustrated. Then I remembered that stopping to pick up the rocks and do whatever she found interesting was what mattered, not the destination. So we put all her treasures in the wagon and took our time. We even did get to play at the park too! And when she came home, she not only had a fun time at the park, but a fun time getting there and back.
Laurie :)
--- In [email protected], "tamara.needham" <tamaraneedham@...> wrote:
>
> I have been reading a lot of articles and books related to unschooling philosophies in parenting. I keep trying to find ways to apply these ideas to our current situation but everything seems to use examples with children 2.5 and up. Our daughter is 18 months old and often I am finding I need to use force to control her occasionally. This breaks my heart but in the situations it seems like there is nothing else I can do. So I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for the following scenarios or is she simply to young still?
> Whenever it's time to get in the car I have to force her into the car seat, she fights me with all her might.
> It's the same struggle when changing her diaper, or trying to get her to sit in her chair for mealtimes. It didn't used to be a fight but it keeps seeming to get worse.
> If anyone can help that would be great.
>
swismiself
My son (age 2) has gone through phases where he'd sit very well during mealtimes, and other times where he just can't stay still! Totally normal for a toddler! When he's in his wiggly phases we use the buckle on a loose setting in his booster chair. Most of the time he buckles himself anyway, but I find it helps remind him to stay seated, without me having to ask him a million times during a meal (which is annoying to both of us). I think it works well for him, since he never fights it or removes the buckle himself (which I know he can do). When he's done he'll tell me "All done please" or "Get out please" and that's that.
As far as the car seat or diaper changes, that was hard until he discovered a new "highly desirable item". For the last few months, it's "daddy's tools". A small wrench and a nut driver go a long way to keeping him quiet long enough to change a diaper (added bonus: one in each hand means he can't reach down), or get him buckled in the seat :).
Mel
As far as the car seat or diaper changes, that was hard until he discovered a new "highly desirable item". For the last few months, it's "daddy's tools". A small wrench and a nut driver go a long way to keeping him quiet long enough to change a diaper (added bonus: one in each hand means he can't reach down), or get him buckled in the seat :).
Mel
--- In [email protected], "tamara.needham" <tamaraneedham@...> wrote:
>
> I have been reading a lot of articles and books related to unschooling philosophies in parenting. I keep trying to find ways to apply these ideas to our current situation but everything seems to use examples with children 2.5 and up. Our daughter is 18 months old and often I am finding I need to use force to control her occasionally. This breaks my heart but in the situations it seems like there is nothing else I can do. So I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for the following scenarios or is she simply to young still?
> Whenever it's time to get in the car I have to force her into the car seat, she fights me with all her might.
> It's the same struggle when changing her diaper, or trying to get her to sit in her chair for mealtimes. It didn't used to be a fight but it keeps seeming to get worse.
> If anyone can help that would be great.
>
Sandra Dodd
-=- Most of the time he buckles himself anyway, but I find it helps
remind him to stay seated, without me having to ask him a million
times during a meal (which is annoying to both of us). -=-
If you have to ask him three times, that's too much.
A million is way too many.
If the purpose of a meal is to sit still, that's the way people should
make their decisions--in favor of staying still.
If the purpose of meals is to be together pleasantly, maybe the table
isn't the only or best place.
If the purpose of meals is to get food into people, that can be done
without the sitting still.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
remind him to stay seated, without me having to ask him a million
times during a meal (which is annoying to both of us). -=-
If you have to ask him three times, that's too much.
A million is way too many.
If the purpose of a meal is to sit still, that's the way people should
make their decisions--in favor of staying still.
If the purpose of meals is to be together pleasantly, maybe the table
isn't the only or best place.
If the purpose of meals is to get food into people, that can be done
without the sitting still.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
swismiself
Sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal is a very important tradition for us.
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=- Most of the time he buckles himself anyway, but I find it helps
> remind him to stay seated, without me having to ask him a million
> times during a meal (which is annoying to both of us). -=-
>
> If you have to ask him three times, that's too much.
> A million is way too many.
>
> If the purpose of a meal is to sit still, that's the way people should
> make their decisions--in favor of staying still.
>
> If the purpose of meals is to be together pleasantly, maybe the table
> isn't the only or best place.
>
> If the purpose of meals is to get food into people, that can be done
> without the sitting still.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Pam Sorooshian
On 7/18/2010 8:44 AM, swismiself wrote:
It is one of those silver bullet ideas. Like this:
"If I could wave a magic wand to make a dent in our nation's
substance abuse problem, I would make sure that every child in
America had dinner with his or her parents at least five times a week."
Joseph A. Califano, Jr.
It comes from confusing correlation with causation. Eating meals
together and less drug abuse are positively correlated because they both
are caused by close-knit families. But eating meals together doesn't
CAUSE less drug abuse. Families that LIKE each other and enjoy each
other's company and in which the parents and children get along and are
close are also families that are more likely to want to eat meals
together and are families in which the kids are less likely to have drug
problems. Eating meals together isn't the cause, it is an effect.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal is aIs your "us" supposed to include your 2 year old?
> very important tradition for us.
It is one of those silver bullet ideas. Like this:
"If I could wave a magic wand to make a dent in our nation's
substance abuse problem, I would make sure that every child in
America had dinner with his or her parents at least five times a week."
Joseph A. Califano, Jr.
It comes from confusing correlation with causation. Eating meals
together and less drug abuse are positively correlated because they both
are caused by close-knit families. But eating meals together doesn't
CAUSE less drug abuse. Families that LIKE each other and enjoy each
other's company and in which the parents and children get along and are
close are also families that are more likely to want to eat meals
together and are families in which the kids are less likely to have drug
problems. Eating meals together isn't the cause, it is an effect.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bun
--- In [email protected], "Bun" <alohabun@...> wrote:
>Thought of one other thing that I have done (albeit kind of gross to some) is make spit bubbles while doing the diaper change to keep my son's attention. He loves bubbles, and even watching me try to make spit bubbles can keep his attention for a brief diaper changing period. Sorry if this grosses anyone out! Laurie
>
> For diaper changes...I switched to pull-ups because my son (now 18 months old) didn't like to be still long enough to do the cloth diaper and cover. I can change him while he stands, or he can be distracted while he lays with a ceiling fan, wipie, or favorite soft caterpillar toy. Much of the time a sibling will entertain him to help out by being silly next to where the change is happenning.
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-> Sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal is a
I was walking back from the grocery store thinking about this
"important tradition" line and Pam had responded, but her response
didn't go the way I would've. (I like the way hers went, but I wanted
to look at another aspect.)
IF both parents are from homes where family dinners were the coolest
thing EVER, and if the couple is married because they could not
believe their good fortune in finding someone else to share that
lifelong tradition, then it might be a very important tradition.
In a family with a two year old who has much of his life not being
able to sit up anywhere at all, it might be something else.
If the two year old keeps wanting down the clearly it's not a very
important tradition for him.
If the parents had been having dinner together since they got married,
that's their tradition. Parents can still have dinner together
without making it about child control or training.
Sometimes our whole family sits down to eat together, and every single
time it happens, it's because every single person there wanted to be
there, not because the clock said or I said. That's a big difference,
and looking back it's because we didn't try to "make them" do things.
We made things appealing and fun, and they could opt out without
penalty or parental whinery.
http://sandradodd.com/eating/dinner
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> very important tradition for us.-=-Is your "us" supposed to include your 2 year old?-=-
I was walking back from the grocery store thinking about this
"important tradition" line and Pam had responded, but her response
didn't go the way I would've. (I like the way hers went, but I wanted
to look at another aspect.)
IF both parents are from homes where family dinners were the coolest
thing EVER, and if the couple is married because they could not
believe their good fortune in finding someone else to share that
lifelong tradition, then it might be a very important tradition.
In a family with a two year old who has much of his life not being
able to sit up anywhere at all, it might be something else.
If the two year old keeps wanting down the clearly it's not a very
important tradition for him.
If the parents had been having dinner together since they got married,
that's their tradition. Parents can still have dinner together
without making it about child control or training.
Sometimes our whole family sits down to eat together, and every single
time it happens, it's because every single person there wanted to be
there, not because the clock said or I said. That's a big difference,
and looking back it's because we didn't try to "make them" do things.
We made things appealing and fun, and they could opt out without
penalty or parental whinery.
http://sandradodd.com/eating/dinner
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"swismiself" <swismiself@...> wrote:
What's important about it? Specifically, I mean. Is it the sitting? The table? The food? The sociability? The way you feel? Do you Have To have all those things together or its null and void and your family falls to pieces? Its worth thinking about, because while your little guy seems to be okay with the situation, he may not stay that way - kids' tolerance for that sort of thing changes. Is it worth it to insist on "sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal" if it results in him resenting the whole process?
There are other ways for kids to learn to value sharing meals than a required sit-down dinner. My kids aren't required to share meals - my partner and I enjoy sharing our meals, so we tend to eat together whenever we're home, dinner but also breakfasts and lunches when we can. The kids are invited, but never required, and we try to accomodate their different food preferences. At times they join us for dinner. At times they don't. At times they join us but don't eat - just socialize, the way friends do in real life, having already eaten but wanting to share company. Along the way, they've picked up polite table manners, learned to set the table, learned how to behave in restaurants and relatives' homes. It didn't take a daily requirement, just "want to join?" And making joining us something they enjoy doing.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>************
> Sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal is a very important tradition for us.
What's important about it? Specifically, I mean. Is it the sitting? The table? The food? The sociability? The way you feel? Do you Have To have all those things together or its null and void and your family falls to pieces? Its worth thinking about, because while your little guy seems to be okay with the situation, he may not stay that way - kids' tolerance for that sort of thing changes. Is it worth it to insist on "sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal" if it results in him resenting the whole process?
There are other ways for kids to learn to value sharing meals than a required sit-down dinner. My kids aren't required to share meals - my partner and I enjoy sharing our meals, so we tend to eat together whenever we're home, dinner but also breakfasts and lunches when we can. The kids are invited, but never required, and we try to accomodate their different food preferences. At times they join us for dinner. At times they don't. At times they join us but don't eat - just socialize, the way friends do in real life, having already eaten but wanting to share company. Along the way, they've picked up polite table manners, learned to set the table, learned how to behave in restaurants and relatives' homes. It didn't take a daily requirement, just "want to join?" And making joining us something they enjoy doing.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
k
>>>Sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal is a very important tradition for us.<<<It CAN become something your child values too. Not through buckling
him in, but by inviting him and allowing sitting down with you to be
his freely available choice. The same goes for other things like
playing Monopoly, or music, or painting, or looking at books,
magazines, websites, etc, going for walks (a long tradition with us
that Karl absolutely loves).
And even then, Karl doesn't go with us every single time. Sometimes
he's busy doing something else or asleep or ...
Karl never sat in a high chair beyond a try or two, although he
appreciated having a booster seat for a while but mostly he sat in
regular chairs and accommodated for the table height by squatting in
the chair until his body grew to fit chair/table proportions better.
Karl grazes for meals, which is a great way to eat (and not overeat).
And the conversations and time spent together that we have other times
are just as memorable and precious.
~Katherine
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-> Sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal is a
> > very important tradition for us.
>
> -=-Is your "us" supposed to include your 2 year old?-=-
>
> I was walking back from the grocery store thinking about this
> "important tradition" line and Pam had responded, but her response
> didn't go the way I would've. (I like the way hers went, but I wanted
> to look at another aspect.)
>
> IF both parents are from homes where family dinners were the coolest
> thing EVER, and if the couple is married because they could not
> believe their good fortune in finding someone else to share that
> lifelong tradition, then it might be a very important tradition.
>
> In a family with a two year old who has much of his life not being
> able to sit up anywhere at all, it might be something else.
>
> If the two year old keeps wanting down the clearly it's not a very
> important tradition for him.
> If the parents had been having dinner together since they got married,
> that's their tradition. Parents can still have dinner together
> without making it about child control or training.
>
> Sometimes our whole family sits down to eat together, and every single
> time it happens, it's because every single person there wanted to be
> there, not because the clock said or I said. That's a big difference,
> and looking back it's because we didn't try to "make them" do things.
> We made things appealing and fun, and they could opt out without
> penalty or parental whinery.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/eating/dinner
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Krisula Moyer
>>>"swismiself" <swismiself@...> wrote:************
>
> Sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal is a very important tradition for us.
What's important about it? Specifically, I mean. I<<<
When I first started learning about unschooling these kinds of threads used to frustrate me. I often read the experienced members' advice and interpreted the questioning format as criticism of me personally. (my sensitive nature). In this example, perhaps you've tried very hard to provide dinners for your family to come home to and now here we are seeming to say that your hard work and consideration is not appreciated by the very people you're sacrificing for (in this case your 2yo son). If this is your reaction I encourage you to re-read all the answers in this thread with the idea that you are trying to find something better that will actually make you, your husband and your child happy right now. If that means all of you enjoying your dinner on a picnic blanket outside, or on the floor in the living room with music or maybe you all play a game instead of dinner then you and your husband have your own romantic dinner after toddler falls asleep... or or or. There are a thousand different ways to enjoy your evenings together and if that includes sitting down to dinner together then great! but on the occasions when it is not a happy, joyful experience, your job is to get at the joy, not to practice the tradition in absence of that joy.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Beverly
--- In [email protected], "swismiself" <swismiself@...> wrote:
>When our older kids were younger we frequently ate on the floor in the living room. My husband is Palestinian and this was a normal way to eat for him. It made for interesting meals when friends came to visit and were not acustomed to this tradition. Even if we were at the table we often had a little one "eating on the fly" as they hovered around the table. If being together and sharing a meal is the goal...aim for that, not sitting still. Not to say you can't practice "public manners", just agree ahead of time that is the plan. Sometimes we call for "fancy lady night" and work on table manners and proper forks and spoons and chewing and the lot. We sometimes find ourselves in situations where knowing these things makes us all more comfortable, and we have fun joking and learning this together.
> Sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal is a very important tradition for us.
Jenny Cyphers
***Sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal is a very
important tradition for us. ***
If it is important for ALL of your family, then make it fun for the ones that
don't like sitting. Find a creative way to help your child enjoy being at the
table in a way that is comfortable. Don't create a power struggle of something
that should be enjoyable.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
important tradition for us. ***
If it is important for ALL of your family, then make it fun for the ones that
don't like sitting. Find a creative way to help your child enjoy being at the
table in a way that is comfortable. Don't create a power struggle of something
that should be enjoyable.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rinelle
<<There are other ways for kids to learn to value sharing meals than a
required sit-down dinner. My kids aren't required to share meals - my
partner and I enjoy sharing our meals, so we tend to eat together whenever
we're home, dinner but also breakfasts and lunches when we can. The kids are
invited, but never required, and we try to accomodate their different food
preferences. At times they join us for dinner. At times they don't. At times
they join us but don't eat - just socialize, the way friends do in real
life, having already eaten but wanting to share company. Along the way,
they've picked up polite table manners, learned to set the table, learned
how to behave in restaurants and relatives' homes. It didn't take a daily
requirement, just "want to join?" And making joining us something they enjoy
doing. >>
We tried doing the sit down for dinner thing for quite a while, and I was so
relieved to discover unschooling and realise that nothing dreadful was going
to happen to us if we ate in front of the TV (which was what hubby and I
used to do before having kids). We now enjoy sitting down together to watch
some TV with our dinner, and mealtime is so much more plesant for everyone.
One question for everyone though. My daughter is 6 now, and show no
interest at all in using a knife and fork to eat with, and I don't think she
ever has. She eats just about every meal with her fingers. (Which isn't
that hard, because she won't eat foods like spaghetti or soup that would be
hard to eat that way.) We've never made a big deal about it, just always
provided her with a knife and fork, but not required her to use them. We
don't eat out a lot, and when we do she nearly always requests chips, so
it's not really a big deal there either. I was just wondering if anyone
else had anything similar with their kids?
Tamara
required sit-down dinner. My kids aren't required to share meals - my
partner and I enjoy sharing our meals, so we tend to eat together whenever
we're home, dinner but also breakfasts and lunches when we can. The kids are
invited, but never required, and we try to accomodate their different food
preferences. At times they join us for dinner. At times they don't. At times
they join us but don't eat - just socialize, the way friends do in real
life, having already eaten but wanting to share company. Along the way,
they've picked up polite table manners, learned to set the table, learned
how to behave in restaurants and relatives' homes. It didn't take a daily
requirement, just "want to join?" And making joining us something they enjoy
doing. >>
We tried doing the sit down for dinner thing for quite a while, and I was so
relieved to discover unschooling and realise that nothing dreadful was going
to happen to us if we ate in front of the TV (which was what hubby and I
used to do before having kids). We now enjoy sitting down together to watch
some TV with our dinner, and mealtime is so much more plesant for everyone.
One question for everyone though. My daughter is 6 now, and show no
interest at all in using a knife and fork to eat with, and I don't think she
ever has. She eats just about every meal with her fingers. (Which isn't
that hard, because she won't eat foods like spaghetti or soup that would be
hard to eat that way.) We've never made a big deal about it, just always
provided her with a knife and fork, but not required her to use them. We
don't eat out a lot, and when we do she nearly always requests chips, so
it's not really a big deal there either. I was just wondering if anyone
else had anything similar with their kids?
Tamara
Bun
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
Is it worth it to insist on "sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal" if it results in him resenting the whole process?
>
Forcing a child to sit at the table with you is a way to make him hate sitting there and remember negativity associated with it instead of pleasure. It is also a way to create a power struggle. Let it go. This time is short. Invite him on your lap if he wants to while you all eat. Let him share from your plate or from his own or both. Pull a booster or high chair up to the table and ASK him if he would like to join you at the table. Or supervise him in a regular chair. You could also get a small child sized table and pull it up next to the big table. Maybe he'd like to stand and eat near you. Stick some play-doh on the low table so he can play near you if you really would like to keep an eye on him while you sit.
Don't worry so much about "manners" - he will learn them as he watches you. Think more about what he is learning about as he watches you...think about how you are acting and how you are treating him and what that is ultimately teaching him. Be kind!
Laurie
Robin Bentley
> One question for everyone though. My daughter is 6 now, and show noPeople in cultures all over the world use their fingers or chopsticks
> interest at all in using a knife and fork to eat with, and I don't
> think she
> ever has. She eats just about every meal with her fingers. (Which
> isn't
> that hard, because she won't eat foods like spaghetti or soup that
> would be
> hard to eat that way.) We've never made a big deal about it, just
> always
> provided her with a knife and fork, but not required her to use
> them. We
> don't eat out a lot, and when we do she nearly always requests
> chips, so
> it's not really a big deal there either. I was just wondering if
> anyone
> else had anything similar with their kids?
>
or some sort of scoop to eat their food!
My daughter was uncomfortable with using a knife for many years, so I
cut her food, buttered her bread. Sure, I got looks, but helping her
was more important until she didn't need the help anymore. She still
prefers food she can eat with her fingers. At 15, she uses a knife
and fork just fine.
Maybe take your daughter to an Indian restaurant where it's perfectly
acceptable to scoop your food with naan bread; to a Middle Eastern or
Greek restaurant where she can scoop her food with pita bread; to a
Mexican restaurant where she can eat burritos or tacos; a Chinese or
Japanese restaurant where they often make "training" chopsticks for
kids and serve soup she can sip from the bowl, when she's interested
in that. She'll see there are lots of ways to eat and see others doing
it *her* way.
Monkey platters are perfect for finger-using eaters! Fruit, veggies,
crackers, sliced meats, hard boiled eggs, nuts - dozens and dozens of
possibilities.
She may never enjoy using utensils. She'll find her own way eventually
to work with that. In the meantime, just help her eat how she wants to
eat.
Robin B.
Sandra Dodd
-=-We tried doing the sit down for dinner thing for quite a while, and
I was so
relieved to discover unschooling and realise that nothing dreadful was
going
to happen to us if we ate in front of the TV (which was what hubby and I
used to do before having kids-=-
Holly and I were out furniture shopping two days last week. In two
stores, we saw "coffee tables" that had sections that lifted up, to
make a couch-height table. They were like "TV trays" but big enough
for two people. OR big enough for a computer and a bunch of books and
papers! The top (or part of the top, depending on the table) hinged
up and to the side, so one's knees would fit underneath it.
(googling for a picture... maybe a name for it)
lift coffee table
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&gbv=2&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=lift+coffee+table&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was so
relieved to discover unschooling and realise that nothing dreadful was
going
to happen to us if we ate in front of the TV (which was what hubby and I
used to do before having kids-=-
Holly and I were out furniture shopping two days last week. In two
stores, we saw "coffee tables" that had sections that lifted up, to
make a couch-height table. They were like "TV trays" but big enough
for two people. OR big enough for a computer and a bunch of books and
papers! The top (or part of the top, depending on the table) hinged
up and to the side, so one's knees would fit underneath it.
(googling for a picture... maybe a name for it)
lift coffee table
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&gbv=2&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=lift+coffee+table&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AlexS
> ***Sitting down together at the table as a family to share a meal is a veryTalking as a family about our days between when my husband comes home and when my daughter goes to sleep is important to me. We *usually* manage but it sometimes gets lost in the shuffle lately. I started setting up this family journal thing I saw in Family Fun magazine. You label one large index card for each day of the year and put them in a box. Each night you grab that day's card, write the year, and write whatever various family members think was good about their day. After you've been doing it a year, you are reusing the cards, so you can also talk about what everyone did a year ago. Nobody has to be sitting down, or eating, but you can be.
> important tradition for us. ***
Alex
mama to Katya, 3 yrs
Jenny Cyphers
***Sometimes our whole family sits down to eat together, and every single
time it happens, it's because every single person there wanted to be
there, not because the clock said or I said. That's a big difference,
and looking back it's because we didn't try to "make them" do things.
We made things appealing and fun, and they could opt out without
penalty or parental whinery.***
That's been the case for our family too. I'd say, about 2 times a month we all
sit down and eat a meal together at our table. Other than that, most of us eat
together, in the same room, living room or office, or even bedroom, sometimes
with the tv and sometimes not.
I grew up in a house in which we HAD to eat at the dining table. It was almost
always to the clock and we could NOT watch tv while eating. Dinner time was
family talk time. It was more in the direction of formal. My parents still eat
this way and my sister follows this tradition with her own family. Eating in
the living room was a rare occurrence that usually involved teen guests and tv
trays. Our family table, when I was growing up was big with a lazy susan in the
middle. We had to say "could you pass the ____?" and it was always passed a
certain direction around the table. We weren't allowed to have elbows on the
table and we had to keep our napkins in our laps if we used them, and a big big
biggy, we couldn't scratch our forks or knives to make that screeching sound
unless it was a complete accident.
When my family eats together at our dining table, it's ALWAYS because everyone
wants to and we enjoy it and we talk and hang out and when everyone seems done,
we disband to do other things. We pass things to each other and we don't care
if we make too much noise. We have a fun table with extra leaves on the end.
It's a corner bench with extra chairs for the other side, it's cushioned and
comfortable. AND we have a chalk board along the long bench side, so we have
the added bonus entertainment of picture drawing and other such fun.
Sometimes teen guests eat at the dining table JUST to play with the chalk board
and draw naughty pictures, and sometimes normal pictures.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
time it happens, it's because every single person there wanted to be
there, not because the clock said or I said. That's a big difference,
and looking back it's because we didn't try to "make them" do things.
We made things appealing and fun, and they could opt out without
penalty or parental whinery.***
That's been the case for our family too. I'd say, about 2 times a month we all
sit down and eat a meal together at our table. Other than that, most of us eat
together, in the same room, living room or office, or even bedroom, sometimes
with the tv and sometimes not.
I grew up in a house in which we HAD to eat at the dining table. It was almost
always to the clock and we could NOT watch tv while eating. Dinner time was
family talk time. It was more in the direction of formal. My parents still eat
this way and my sister follows this tradition with her own family. Eating in
the living room was a rare occurrence that usually involved teen guests and tv
trays. Our family table, when I was growing up was big with a lazy susan in the
middle. We had to say "could you pass the ____?" and it was always passed a
certain direction around the table. We weren't allowed to have elbows on the
table and we had to keep our napkins in our laps if we used them, and a big big
biggy, we couldn't scratch our forks or knives to make that screeching sound
unless it was a complete accident.
When my family eats together at our dining table, it's ALWAYS because everyone
wants to and we enjoy it and we talk and hang out and when everyone seems done,
we disband to do other things. We pass things to each other and we don't care
if we make too much noise. We have a fun table with extra leaves on the end.
It's a corner bench with extra chairs for the other side, it's cushioned and
comfortable. AND we have a chalk board along the long bench side, so we have
the added bonus entertainment of picture drawing and other such fun.
Sometimes teen guests eat at the dining table JUST to play with the chalk board
and draw naughty pictures, and sometimes normal pictures.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
verde_mama
Eating meals together isn't the cause, it is an effect.
Also, I enjoy it a lot when my kids are fed and occupied and my husband and I can eat dinner together (and have an adult conversation!) It's rare. I'm not entirely against "the family dinner", I'm just saying it's not always the best way to encourage close family relationships if not everyone is enjoying it. Also i'm about 200 posts behind, so this may already have bee said :-)
Nikole (mother of 3 daughters (7 yrs, 3 yrs, and 3 mo.))
>My husband's family had dinner at a very specific time every day and all were required to attend all throughout his childhood and teen years. His family is not a very joyful, loving family, and to this day he dislikes any meal that his mother made on a regular basis, because those meals were so forced and unlikeable for him. He will not eat stuffed peppers, meatloaf, or chicken of any kind (except bbq on the grill) because of those forced family dinners.
> -pam
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Also, I enjoy it a lot when my kids are fed and occupied and my husband and I can eat dinner together (and have an adult conversation!) It's rare. I'm not entirely against "the family dinner", I'm just saying it's not always the best way to encourage close family relationships if not everyone is enjoying it. Also i'm about 200 posts behind, so this may already have bee said :-)
Nikole (mother of 3 daughters (7 yrs, 3 yrs, and 3 mo.))