"You Do It"
myung-jin kang
My daughter is 28 months. For some time now, she has been asking me to, "do it." For example, if we are playing with a puzzle, she would like me to put down the pieces while she watches. I play with her and ask her if the pieces go here or there, if I need to turn the piece around in order for it to fit. We have fun. I remember reading a John Holt book saying that children (and probably adults) learn by watching. My question is - when does me "doing it" hinder her learning process? I'm asking because I've read several books on helping children develop and how it's important for them to work things out - to make mistakes and learn from them. I know my daughter is young. I also know I have a tendency of helping her with things that she can do on her own - for example, she likes to me to feed her because she doesn't like to get messy. (I try to get as messy as possible when we do some art exploration - yet, she really doesn't get messy - I do!) I would love
to hear insight on - "You do it!" All the best, M.J.
http://mjmiaoren.wordpress.com/ - Traveling Natural Momma Blog
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalParentingLA/
to hear insight on - "You do it!" All the best, M.J.
http://mjmiaoren.wordpress.com/ - Traveling Natural Momma Blog
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalParentingLA/
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 1, 2010, at 10:52 AM, myung-jin kang wrote:
But those books leave out the most important part! People learn best
when they figure things out *that intrigue them.*
If she's asking you to do it, respect her request.
If this helps you see more clearly, you are showing her with your
actions how to listen to someone else's needs, respect those needs
even if they're different from yours and how to help someone.
If you're overriding her wishes with your own agenda for her, picture
yourself as an old lady with limited abilities who asks her daughter
to turn on
If you didn't like to change the oil on your car and asked your
husband to do it, would it feel respectful if your husband decided it
was more important for you to learn to do it than to respect your
dislike of doing it?
feed herself, but there's a big yucky barrier between her and the
food: not being able to get it into her mouth without getting messy.
Feeding her is respecting that. You might also find foods that aren't
as messy to give her more options. Recognizing her likes and dislikes
and helping her get what she likes and avoid what she dislikes is
respectful and increases her trust that you're there to help her
navigate the world. Do trust that she *does* want to get better! But
she has her own schedule, her own agenda. At some point being messy
won't feel so yucky but it will happen when it happens.
On the other hand, if she's trying to do something and you do it for
her because it's easier for you to do it than watch her fumble with
it, that would be disrespectful. And potentially suggesting that
getting things done efficiently is more important than her need to
play and investigate.
Joyce
> My question is - when does me "doing it" hinder her learningYes, people learn best by figuring things out.
> process? I'm asking because I've read several books on helping
> children develop and how it's important for them to work things out
> - to make mistakes and learn from them.
But those books leave out the most important part! People learn best
when they figure things out *that intrigue them.*
If she's asking you to do it, respect her request.
If this helps you see more clearly, you are showing her with your
actions how to listen to someone else's needs, respect those needs
even if they're different from yours and how to help someone.
If you're overriding her wishes with your own agenda for her, picture
yourself as an old lady with limited abilities who asks her daughter
to turn on
If you didn't like to change the oil on your car and asked your
husband to do it, would it feel respectful if your husband decided it
was more important for you to learn to do it than to respect your
dislike of doing it?
> I also know I have a tendency of helping her with things that sheI would put that in the same category as above. She may know how to
> can do on her own - for example, she likes to me to feed her because
> she doesn't like to get messy. (I try to get as messy as possible
> when we do some art exploration - yet, she really doesn't get messy
> - I do!)
feed herself, but there's a big yucky barrier between her and the
food: not being able to get it into her mouth without getting messy.
Feeding her is respecting that. You might also find foods that aren't
as messy to give her more options. Recognizing her likes and dislikes
and helping her get what she likes and avoid what she dislikes is
respectful and increases her trust that you're there to help her
navigate the world. Do trust that she *does* want to get better! But
she has her own schedule, her own agenda. At some point being messy
won't feel so yucky but it will happen when it happens.
On the other hand, if she's trying to do something and you do it for
her because it's easier for you to do it than watch her fumble with
it, that would be disrespectful. And potentially suggesting that
getting things done efficiently is more important than her need to
play and investigate.
Joyce
Sandra Dodd
-=-My question is - when does me "doing it" hinder her learning
process?-=-
When she asks you to stop doing it and you keep doing it, I figure.
-=-I also know I have a tendency of helping her with things that she
can do on her own - for example, she likes to me to feed her because
she doesn't like to get messy. (I try to get as messy as possible when
we do some art exploration - yet, she really doesn't get messy - I
do!) I would love to hear insight on - "You do it!"-=-
Interesting, about feeding kids. I was staying with a family where
most of the meals were Chinese style, and that is NOT finger food.
The kids were being spoon-fed (fork fed, chop-sticks fed, depending on
the person and the moment) and it made a lot of sense. I think
American food and a spoon is way easier for little kids than Asian
food, so guessing by the original poster's name/e-mail, maybe it's a
similar deal. Maybe not.
When I was little I didn't like to have anything on my hands like food
or mud or paint. It really kinda grossed me out and I would just hold
my hands up for someone to clean them. That passed after a few years,
but I still remember the feeling occasionally, and I think the emotion
was like fear or helplessness. Something had made my hands unusable,
and I didn't like that one bit.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
process?-=-
When she asks you to stop doing it and you keep doing it, I figure.
-=-I also know I have a tendency of helping her with things that she
can do on her own - for example, she likes to me to feed her because
she doesn't like to get messy. (I try to get as messy as possible when
we do some art exploration - yet, she really doesn't get messy - I
do!) I would love to hear insight on - "You do it!"-=-
Interesting, about feeding kids. I was staying with a family where
most of the meals were Chinese style, and that is NOT finger food.
The kids were being spoon-fed (fork fed, chop-sticks fed, depending on
the person and the moment) and it made a lot of sense. I think
American food and a spoon is way easier for little kids than Asian
food, so guessing by the original poster's name/e-mail, maybe it's a
similar deal. Maybe not.
When I was little I didn't like to have anything on my hands like food
or mud or paint. It really kinda grossed me out and I would just hold
my hands up for someone to clean them. That passed after a few years,
but I still remember the feeling occasionally, and I think the emotion
was like fear or helplessness. Something had made my hands unusable,
and I didn't like that one bit.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>My question is - when does me "doing it" hinder her learning process?<<<For Karl, the answer is almost never, especially if he asks. Sometimes
I ask if he'd like to have a go, and he will. A good example is
drawing or painting or anything with pens, crayons. He usually, really
almost always, used to ask me to draw or write something for him. He
wanted to know how by watching and observing. Doing what he asks gives
him the opportunity to see how it can be done. I varied the way I did
it too sometimes, to give him other or new ideas. Then he may or may
not try it himself. But he would remember it and put it somewhere in
his stash of things one can do or whatever he thinks of it as.
>>>I'm asking because I've read several books on helping children develop and how it's important for them to work things out - to make mistakes and learn from them.<<<Even when a child is watching someone do something, there's an
expectation of how it might be done, which can be spot on or way off.
And the child learns from mistakes even if the child isn't the one
doing the activity. Right now, Karl is watching walkthroughs on
Youtube for Wario World. I know he hates making mistakes and it's sooo
much easier for him to learn from his own mistaken ideas and from the
mistakes in the walkthrough than it is for him to make mistakes
himself to learn from, although he does that too. He about to turn 7,
close to the age range when accuracy begins to take on more
importance. So it's GOOD that it isn't having to be so difficult
personally and it's also good to see that everyone makes a lot of
mistakes when learning or perfecting what they already have learned
(learning more).
~Katherine
Miriam Mason
> ----->>My daughter is 28 months. For some time now, she has beenMy younger son is 8. "You do it" is still his daily request of me. 8
> asking me to, "do it."<<----
years is a long time, but I trust that he knows what is right for
him. Recently, he's been venturing into contributing to my "doing"
and even has done a few of his own. I'm kind of amazed by the detail
and level of visual information his mind is processing -- that he
wants to include -- the stuff he does is pretty detailed and
accurate. It makes complete sense why he wants to watch me. I'm no
artist, but he is (and wow, is he giving me a good stretch). He's
getting as much information as he can while he knows his fine motor
set doesn't match his fine mental set... yet. So, in the meantime, I
create (the best I can) what he asks for as exactly as I can.
Sometimes I wish I was a lot better for him, but he seems entirely
satisfied with what I'm doing, so all is well.
It's as if I'm the player and he is the director. His mind has an
idea that he simply needs me to support him in whatever way in order
for that thing to become real. Hmmm... I wonder if I'm making sense?
He *did* however, the other day, ask me to add a room to the house.
Um... My motor set hasn't got a clue! :) (But deep down in his mind,
I think he'd know exactly how to design it.)
Best,
Miriam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 7/1/2010 12:26 PM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
them all ourselves, thank goodness. Sometimes we can imagine doing
something and imagine the consequences and realize it would be a mistake
and nobody has to actually make it.
-pam
> important for them to work things outPeople learn from other people's mistakes, too. We don't have to make
> > - to make mistakes and learn from them.
them all ourselves, thank goodness. Sometimes we can imagine doing
something and imagine the consequences and realize it would be a mistake
and nobody has to actually make it.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-If you're overriding her wishes with your own agenda for her, picture
yourself as an old lady with limited abilities who asks her daughter
to turn on-=-
The TV? Shower? Computer?
Don't leave me hangin'... I'm fast becoming and old lady with limited
abilities!
I think some of the "don't help her" comes from school wanting young
children to be able to tie their own shoes and wipe their own butts,
so that they can be warehoused earlier and more conveniently, and then
be accepting of the "don't help each other; that's cheating" culture
of school.
In real jobs, people help each other. School is training for testing,
though, not for the real world.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
yourself as an old lady with limited abilities who asks her daughter
to turn on-=-
The TV? Shower? Computer?
Don't leave me hangin'... I'm fast becoming and old lady with limited
abilities!
I think some of the "don't help her" comes from school wanting young
children to be able to tie their own shoes and wipe their own butts,
so that they can be warehoused earlier and more conveniently, and then
be accepting of the "don't help each other; that's cheating" culture
of school.
In real jobs, people help each other. School is training for testing,
though, not for the real world.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
myung-jin kang <mkangj@...> wrote:
You could try offering her things like aprons and gloves if you think that would help - some kids don't like the feel of goo or get very stressed about getting favored clothes stained. You could also offer different kinds of implements, things that are easier for her to use without generating mess. It might be a good idea, too, for you to work on not getting so messy, yourself, so that she can see how to do what she wants *and* do it neatly.
---Meredith
>(I try to get as messy as possible when we do some art exploration - yet, she really doesn't get messy - I do!)Are you saying you think she "should" get messy? I know some adults have an idea that getting messy is something kids need (while others have exactly the opposite expectation!), that its somehow important to learning. Its okay for someone to dislike being messy!
You could try offering her things like aprons and gloves if you think that would help - some kids don't like the feel of goo or get very stressed about getting favored clothes stained. You could also offer different kinds of implements, things that are easier for her to use without generating mess. It might be a good idea, too, for you to work on not getting so messy, yourself, so that she can see how to do what she wants *and* do it neatly.
---Meredith
plaidpanties666
Miriam Mason <mimmason@...> wrote:
http://www.chihuly.com/
>> It's as if I'm the player and he is the director. His mind has anThere's an exhibit by a well known glass artist in Nashville right now, Dale Chihuly, and I've been reading about him. He no longer blows his own glass, but designs and directs the creation of fantastic works of art:
> idea that he simply needs me to support him in whatever way in order
> for that thing to become real. Hmmm... I wonder if I'm making sense?
http://www.chihuly.com/