Synapses & Brain Development
Carrie Labinski
I've heard that children development many, many synapses in their brain but then a pruning occurs. If a synapse isn't used, it's pruned. So the more experiences the child has, the more synapses he'll retain. I was just wondering about the fact with unschooling we don't try to cram facts and information down our kids' throats but let them lead the way. If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses develop more and thus help their brain develop more? Thanks for your thoughts...
Amanda's Shoebox
You can't force a child to learn anything. If you could, all students in school would get 100% on every test.
Unless children are being locked in an empty room with white walls everyday, they *are* experiencing things and therefore their synapses are developing.
Since unschooling isn't a hugely common thing, I'll guess you went to school or at the very least were homeschooled. Think about all of the things you learned in school that you no longer know because they simply weren't relevant in your life (pruning).
What if you had spent all of that time you had been in school instead learning about what WAS relevant to your life? I would guess a lot less "pruning" would happen.
It's just a guess, but I would think unschooling children's brains prune less and develop more.
~ Amanda
Unless children are being locked in an empty room with white walls everyday, they *are* experiencing things and therefore their synapses are developing.
Since unschooling isn't a hugely common thing, I'll guess you went to school or at the very least were homeschooled. Think about all of the things you learned in school that you no longer know because they simply weren't relevant in your life (pruning).
What if you had spent all of that time you had been in school instead learning about what WAS relevant to your life? I would guess a lot less "pruning" would happen.
It's just a guess, but I would think unschooling children's brains prune less and develop more.
~ Amanda
--- In [email protected], "Carrie Labinski" <labinski@...> wrote:
>
> I've heard that children development many, many synapses in their brain but then a pruning occurs. If a synapse isn't used, it's pruned. So the more experiences the child has, the more synapses he'll retain. I was just wondering about the fact with unschooling we don't try to cram facts and information down our kids' throats but let them lead the way. If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses develop more and thus help their brain develop more? Thanks for your thoughts...
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-I've heard that children development many, many synapses in their
brain but then a pruning occurs. If a synapse isn't used, it's pruned.
So the more experiences the child has, the more synapses he'll retain.
I was just wondering about the fact with unschooling we don't try to
cram facts and information down our kids' throats but let them lead
the way. If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses
develop more and thus help their brain develop more? Thanks for your
thoughts...-=-
This is one of the first really different topics to come through the
list for a long time! Cool.
-=--I've heard that children development many, many synapses in their
brain but then a pruning occurs. If a synapse isn't used, it's pruned.
-=-
It's not "a pruning." That sounds awful, and it sounds deliberate,
and sharp and cutting.
It would be more like the connection becoming atrophied, but even that
is too dramatic and too big. "A synapse" is more like old-time hand-
operated telephone switchboards. Two things were connected at one
time, but perhaps the call has been disconnected.
UNlike old time telephone switchboards, an old connection can be
restablished. So it's more like they fade from brightness to plain to
dull to dusty/pale, and other more interesting things take the
foreground of thought and awareness. If something comes along to
remind (literally put it in your mind again), the old connection will
light up again.
That's how I understand it, and my analogy might be as crude as
"pruning," but I don't like pruning. I hardly even cut branches off
my trees anymore; seriously. I sure don't want to think of people
clipping things out of my brain or my kids' brains. That's called
"lobotomy."
-=-So the more experiences the child has, the more synapses he'll
retain. -=-
Certainly.
What happens in school's intended teaching is rarely "experiences."
The experiences retained from school are quite often not what the
school planned and paid for.
Before I go on, for anyone who's reading, here's an important question
to think about: "the more synapses he'll retain" WHEN? When is the
snapshot moment being considered when someone says "will retain"? At
18? 21? 30? 56? 82?
There is no absolute measurement for synaptic retention. And it
sounds kind of unsanitary, put that way. :-)
-=- I was just wondering about the fact with unschooling we don't try
to cram facts and information down our kids' throats but let them lead
the way-=-
Whoa, wait. Down their throats doesn't lead to their brain.
Chemically, yes. Informationally, not so much.
"Let them lead the way" is not the opposite of "try to cram facts and
information" (down or into them).
I know there are LOTS and lots of people who describe unschooling as
"child led learning," but they don't tend to stay on this list, or if
they do they're likely to find a better model and definition for
unschooling.
-=- If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses
develop more and thus help their brain develop more?-=-
Depends who "we" are and what the "less of schoolish stuff" image one
might have would be.
What does a tree need for its leaves and twigs to develop more?
What does a cat need for its brain to develop more?
They need a lack of abuse. They need water and food, sunshine. The
cats can use things or people to play with, and people or other cats
to groom them, pet them, lie down next to them sometimes. The tree
might need to be less in the shade of other trees for optimal growth,
or might need not to be where the wind is banging their branches
against a cliff or building or fence or something.
If you think of people as the natural, biological beings they are,
rather than as school kids who either are or are not in school, things
become much clearer.
-=-If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses
develop more and thus help their brain develop more?"
You cannot force schoolish stuff. Schools try and fail, and they're
professionals. "Stuff" (if by stuff you mean knowledge) cannot be
stuffed into someone. Learning happens by the learner thinking,
comparing, considering, and drawing the connections in.
If the "or what?" scenario is unschooling as discussed on this list,
Joyce Fetteroll's site, my unschooling pages and the blogs of many of
the longtime-unschooling members of this list, and if a family does
things every single day to provide and stir and stimulate idea-hoppin'
thought, then brains will develop--not just the children's brains, but
the parents' too.
http://sandradodd.com/connections
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling/howunschoolingworks.html
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
brain but then a pruning occurs. If a synapse isn't used, it's pruned.
So the more experiences the child has, the more synapses he'll retain.
I was just wondering about the fact with unschooling we don't try to
cram facts and information down our kids' throats but let them lead
the way. If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses
develop more and thus help their brain develop more? Thanks for your
thoughts...-=-
This is one of the first really different topics to come through the
list for a long time! Cool.
-=--I've heard that children development many, many synapses in their
brain but then a pruning occurs. If a synapse isn't used, it's pruned.
-=-
It's not "a pruning." That sounds awful, and it sounds deliberate,
and sharp and cutting.
It would be more like the connection becoming atrophied, but even that
is too dramatic and too big. "A synapse" is more like old-time hand-
operated telephone switchboards. Two things were connected at one
time, but perhaps the call has been disconnected.
UNlike old time telephone switchboards, an old connection can be
restablished. So it's more like they fade from brightness to plain to
dull to dusty/pale, and other more interesting things take the
foreground of thought and awareness. If something comes along to
remind (literally put it in your mind again), the old connection will
light up again.
That's how I understand it, and my analogy might be as crude as
"pruning," but I don't like pruning. I hardly even cut branches off
my trees anymore; seriously. I sure don't want to think of people
clipping things out of my brain or my kids' brains. That's called
"lobotomy."
-=-So the more experiences the child has, the more synapses he'll
retain. -=-
Certainly.
What happens in school's intended teaching is rarely "experiences."
The experiences retained from school are quite often not what the
school planned and paid for.
Before I go on, for anyone who's reading, here's an important question
to think about: "the more synapses he'll retain" WHEN? When is the
snapshot moment being considered when someone says "will retain"? At
18? 21? 30? 56? 82?
There is no absolute measurement for synaptic retention. And it
sounds kind of unsanitary, put that way. :-)
-=- I was just wondering about the fact with unschooling we don't try
to cram facts and information down our kids' throats but let them lead
the way-=-
Whoa, wait. Down their throats doesn't lead to their brain.
Chemically, yes. Informationally, not so much.
"Let them lead the way" is not the opposite of "try to cram facts and
information" (down or into them).
I know there are LOTS and lots of people who describe unschooling as
"child led learning," but they don't tend to stay on this list, or if
they do they're likely to find a better model and definition for
unschooling.
-=- If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses
develop more and thus help their brain develop more?-=-
Depends who "we" are and what the "less of schoolish stuff" image one
might have would be.
What does a tree need for its leaves and twigs to develop more?
What does a cat need for its brain to develop more?
They need a lack of abuse. They need water and food, sunshine. The
cats can use things or people to play with, and people or other cats
to groom them, pet them, lie down next to them sometimes. The tree
might need to be less in the shade of other trees for optimal growth,
or might need not to be where the wind is banging their branches
against a cliff or building or fence or something.
If you think of people as the natural, biological beings they are,
rather than as school kids who either are or are not in school, things
become much clearer.
-=-If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses
develop more and thus help their brain develop more?"
You cannot force schoolish stuff. Schools try and fail, and they're
professionals. "Stuff" (if by stuff you mean knowledge) cannot be
stuffed into someone. Learning happens by the learner thinking,
comparing, considering, and drawing the connections in.
If the "or what?" scenario is unschooling as discussed on this list,
Joyce Fetteroll's site, my unschooling pages and the blogs of many of
the longtime-unschooling members of this list, and if a family does
things every single day to provide and stir and stimulate idea-hoppin'
thought, then brains will develop--not just the children's brains, but
the parents' too.
http://sandradodd.com/connections
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/unschooling/howunschoolingworks.html
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=It's just a guess, but I would think unschooling children's brains
prune less and develop more. -=-
Doh! Amanda just said what I said, but much more succintly. <g>
What people "prune" is what they didn't want or use in the first place.
Also, the original post and my way long response didn't mention "short
term memory," which is intended to be released after it's used once.
The phone number of the plumber you're about to call. The directions
to a restaurant you didn't much like after you ate there. The grocery
list so short you don't intend to write it down. How many eggs you
have. Those things are not synapses built to last a lifetime.
Many people put all the science, math and geography they ever learned
into that flimsy paper storage bag, too. I was in and around school
for a long, long time, and the question I heard asked more than any
other was "Is this going to be on the test?"
http://sandradodd.com/triviality
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
prune less and develop more. -=-
Doh! Amanda just said what I said, but much more succintly. <g>
What people "prune" is what they didn't want or use in the first place.
Also, the original post and my way long response didn't mention "short
term memory," which is intended to be released after it's used once.
The phone number of the plumber you're about to call. The directions
to a restaurant you didn't much like after you ate there. The grocery
list so short you don't intend to write it down. How many eggs you
have. Those things are not synapses built to last a lifetime.
Many people put all the science, math and geography they ever learned
into that flimsy paper storage bag, too. I was in and around school
for a long, long time, and the question I heard asked more than any
other was "Is this going to be on the test?"
http://sandradodd.com/triviality
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/29/2010 7:28 AM, Carrie Labinski wrote:
location, limited in type, limited in content.
Learning (synapse formation) happens best under conditions of trust,
interest, and support --- and the least learning happens under
conditions of anxiety, confusion, coercion, and boredom.
Unschooling parents should be offering MORE of the world to their
children than schools. Unschooling parents should be offering more
experiences, more environments, more conversation, more exposure, and
far far more support for pursuing interests.
Unschooling is not not-schooling; it is replacing schooling with
something better.
-pam
> If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses developThe "experiences" students have in school are limited - limited in
> more and thus help their brain develop more? Thanks for your thoughts...
location, limited in type, limited in content.
Learning (synapse formation) happens best under conditions of trust,
interest, and support --- and the least learning happens under
conditions of anxiety, confusion, coercion, and boredom.
Unschooling parents should be offering MORE of the world to their
children than schools. Unschooling parents should be offering more
experiences, more environments, more conversation, more exposure, and
far far more support for pursuing interests.
Unschooling is not not-schooling; it is replacing schooling with
something better.
-pam
Heather
Carrie Labinski wrote:
teacher claimed that multiplication, or skip-counting, must be learned
in a certain window, or it would be too late.
I did a little research, and consulted my cousin, who had been doing
post-doc work at MIT in neural science, and he confirmed that what I
found was the general consensus in that community about what the
research was indicating at that point.
This was the best summary I found at that date, (written in 2007):
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/42/33/38811529.pdf
A couple of quotes from this:
"Neuroscientists have well established that the brain has a highly
robust and well-developed
capacity to change in response to environmental demands, a process
called plasticity. This
involves creating and strengthening some neuronal connections and
weakening or
eliminating others. The degree of modification depends on the type of
learning that takes
place, with long-term learning leading to more profound modification. It
also depends on the
period of learning, with infants experiencing extraordinary growth of
new synapses. But a
profound message is that plasticity is a core feature of the brain
throughout life."
"There are optimal or “sensitive periods” during which particular types
of learning are most
effective, despite this lifetime plasticity.
Brain research provides important neuroscientific evidence to support
the broad aim of lifelong
learning: Far from supporting ageist notions that education is the
province only of the young
– the powerful learning capacity of young people notwithstanding –
neuroscience confirms
that learning is a lifelong activity and that the more it continues the
more effective it is."
Heather
>This question came up on a local list awhile ago. A parent and Waldorf
> I've heard that children development many, many synapses in their
> brain but then a pruning occurs. If a synapse isn't used, it's pruned.
> So the more experiences the child has, the more synapses he'll retain.
> I was just wondering about the fact with unschooling we don't try to
> cram facts and information down our kids' throats but let them lead
> the way. If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses
> develop more and thus help their brain develop more? Thanks for your
> thoughts...
>
teacher claimed that multiplication, or skip-counting, must be learned
in a certain window, or it would be too late.
I did a little research, and consulted my cousin, who had been doing
post-doc work at MIT in neural science, and he confirmed that what I
found was the general consensus in that community about what the
research was indicating at that point.
This was the best summary I found at that date, (written in 2007):
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/42/33/38811529.pdf
A couple of quotes from this:
"Neuroscientists have well established that the brain has a highly
robust and well-developed
capacity to change in response to environmental demands, a process
called plasticity. This
involves creating and strengthening some neuronal connections and
weakening or
eliminating others. The degree of modification depends on the type of
learning that takes
place, with long-term learning leading to more profound modification. It
also depends on the
period of learning, with infants experiencing extraordinary growth of
new synapses. But a
profound message is that plasticity is a core feature of the brain
throughout life."
"There are optimal or “sensitive periods” during which particular types
of learning are most
effective, despite this lifetime plasticity.
Brain research provides important neuroscientific evidence to support
the broad aim of lifelong
learning: Far from supporting ageist notions that education is the
province only of the young
– the powerful learning capacity of young people notwithstanding –
neuroscience confirms
that learning is a lifelong activity and that the more it continues the
more effective it is."
Heather
Vidyut Kale
"If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses develop more
and thus help their brain develop more?"
I had read somewhere that we have way more of those than we need in a
lifetime. What would the point be in cramming stuff in to increase space
when it is getting filled by useless things? Like buying a new hard disk to
be able to save files you are likely not going to need anyway?
I had this page in my favourites, which has quite a bit of stuff around
this: http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/plast.html
"Experience determines which connections will be strengthened and which will
be pruned; connections that have been activated most frequently are
preserved."
Put it like that, schoolish stuff is not likely to help in preserving
synapses :D
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and thus help their brain develop more?"
I had read somewhere that we have way more of those than we need in a
lifetime. What would the point be in cramming stuff in to increase space
when it is getting filled by useless things? Like buying a new hard disk to
be able to save files you are likely not going to need anyway?
I had this page in my favourites, which has quite a bit of stuff around
this: http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/plast.html
"Experience determines which connections will be strengthened and which will
be pruned; connections that have been activated most frequently are
preserved."
Put it like that, schoolish stuff is not likely to help in preserving
synapses :D
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amanda's Shoebox
Carrie Labinski wrote: It also depends on the period of learning, with infants experiencing extraordinary growth of new synapses.
I've often wondered if the claims that learning declines as people age, or that the brain is not "fully developed" until the age of 24 is more about the fact that people want to/need to learn more when they're younger and as we age, many people become less interested in learning? It's not really a fully developed idea in my mind and I haven't researched it or anything... I just find it funny that people's brains are "fully developed" at 24... Is that because they graduate college at 22 and spend the next two years learning how to do their new "after college" jobs effectively and beyond that point stop "wanting" to learn new things as much?
What is "fully developed" anyways? I'm 32... I'm not anywhere close to being "fully developed".
~ Amanda
I've often wondered if the claims that learning declines as people age, or that the brain is not "fully developed" until the age of 24 is more about the fact that people want to/need to learn more when they're younger and as we age, many people become less interested in learning? It's not really a fully developed idea in my mind and I haven't researched it or anything... I just find it funny that people's brains are "fully developed" at 24... Is that because they graduate college at 22 and spend the next two years learning how to do their new "after college" jobs effectively and beyond that point stop "wanting" to learn new things as much?
What is "fully developed" anyways? I'm 32... I'm not anywhere close to being "fully developed".
~ Amanda
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/29/2010 9:29 AM, Heather wrote:
going to miss some "learning window" for memorizing multiplication facts
and, therefore, end up homeless and friendless.
Those optimal or sensitive periods are those periods when a child
displays certain kinds of interests and inclinations - kids around 8 to
12 years old are likely to be more into information, often seem to be
collecting facts, for example, than teenagers, who are more likely to
want to talk about issues and develop analysis abilities.
If we were writing curriculum, it would be important to think ahead
about the kind of learning that suits kids at different ages (not that
we could get it right for any individual kid). But we unschoolers live
with our kids, we know them, we are aware of their interests and
inclinations at a much more in-depth and intimate level. We support
their interests and inclinations every hour of every day. We don't need
to worry about those broad generalizations about learning windows or
sensitive periods or any of that because our kids are right there in
front of us, showing and telling and displaying what they need.
-pam
> There are optimal or “sensitive periods” during which particular typesThis is the part that people freak out over, thinking their kids are
> of learning are most effective, despite this lifetime plasticity.
>
going to miss some "learning window" for memorizing multiplication facts
and, therefore, end up homeless and friendless.
Those optimal or sensitive periods are those periods when a child
displays certain kinds of interests and inclinations - kids around 8 to
12 years old are likely to be more into information, often seem to be
collecting facts, for example, than teenagers, who are more likely to
want to talk about issues and develop analysis abilities.
If we were writing curriculum, it would be important to think ahead
about the kind of learning that suits kids at different ages (not that
we could get it right for any individual kid). But we unschoolers live
with our kids, we know them, we are aware of their interests and
inclinations at a much more in-depth and intimate level. We support
their interests and inclinations every hour of every day. We don't need
to worry about those broad generalizations about learning windows or
sensitive periods or any of that because our kids are right there in
front of us, showing and telling and displaying what they need.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-I did a little research, and consulted my cousin, who had been doing
post-doc work at MIT in neural science, and he confirmed that what I
found was the general consensus in that community about what the
research was indicating at that point.-=-
Rephrase, please. He confirmed what!? I don't want to read a long
summary. I want the posts to the list to make sense and be clear.
PLEASE, everybody, please proofread posts. I don't care about
spelling or punctuation. I care that things just make sense.
Sandra
post-doc work at MIT in neural science, and he confirmed that what I
found was the general consensus in that community about what the
research was indicating at that point.-=-
Rephrase, please. He confirmed what!? I don't want to read a long
summary. I want the posts to the list to make sense and be clear.
PLEASE, everybody, please proofread posts. I don't care about
spelling or punctuation. I care that things just make sense.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-Those optimal or sensitive periods are those periods when a child
displays certain kinds of interests and inclinations - kids around 8 to
12 years old are likely to be more into information, often seem to be
collecting facts, for example, than teenagers, who are more likely to
want to talk about issues and develop analysis abilities.-=-
The younger kids are learning vocabulary, I think--names of things
(bands, musical instruments, movies, actors, cars, trucks, places,
historical personages), and the older kids are also taking in
information, but it's less concrete so not as easy to name. They're
learning about relationships and human nature and group dynamics and
politics (the real definition of politics, not the "civics" trivia and
details about legislation).
The teens are doing those things that in school are discouraged as
"waste of time." They won't be on the test.
The lowest grades I ever got in school were for "conduct" or
"deportment" because I talked too much and didn't mind my own
business. The teachers gave no credit to the fact that I was helping
new kids figure out what they were supposed to do and where the
cafeteria was and whether a particular teacher wanted to grant
permission before a kid even sharpened a pencil or not.
Sandra
displays certain kinds of interests and inclinations - kids around 8 to
12 years old are likely to be more into information, often seem to be
collecting facts, for example, than teenagers, who are more likely to
want to talk about issues and develop analysis abilities.-=-
The younger kids are learning vocabulary, I think--names of things
(bands, musical instruments, movies, actors, cars, trucks, places,
historical personages), and the older kids are also taking in
information, but it's less concrete so not as easy to name. They're
learning about relationships and human nature and group dynamics and
politics (the real definition of politics, not the "civics" trivia and
details about legislation).
The teens are doing those things that in school are discouraged as
"waste of time." They won't be on the test.
The lowest grades I ever got in school were for "conduct" or
"deportment" because I talked too much and didn't mind my own
business. The teachers gave no credit to the fact that I was helping
new kids figure out what they were supposed to do and where the
cafeteria was and whether a particular teacher wanted to grant
permission before a kid even sharpened a pencil or not.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
Well! Speaking of cognitive retention, this just came in the e-mail
from TED.com
Clay Shirky looks at "cognitive surplus" -- the collective online work
we do with our spare brain cycles (like editing Wikipedia and yes,
making LOLcats). Watch now >>
http://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_how_cognitive_surplus_will_change_the_world.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
from TED.com
Clay Shirky looks at "cognitive surplus" -- the collective online work
we do with our spare brain cycles (like editing Wikipedia and yes,
making LOLcats). Watch now >>
http://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_how_cognitive_surplus_will_change_the_world.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***I was just wondering about the fact with unschooling we don't try to
cram facts and information down our kids' throats but let them lead the
way. If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses
develop more and thus help their brain develop more?***
Why would schoolish stuff be more important experiential learning than other learning to develop synapses?
Whether or not it's true that more experiences develop more synapses, wouldn't change the fact that kids who are allowed to experience the world in a peaceful happy learning environment will learn more and better than kids who are stuffed into a classroom with a bunch of other kids who may or may not like them and forced to do things they may or may not be interested in.
Forcing things on others has never proven to create happy learning. Forcing learning doesn't work either, if it did schools would churn out a 100% success rate of their fine products of children.
The growing and trimming of synapses could be a bit like pruning a bush. A kid in school might be getting all the wrong branches trimmed off. A kid who is unschooling might grow and shape naturally, following the light and allowing their branches to die off naturally as they are no longer needed. A common bush that gets trimmed and shaped around here is a type of cedar, that if left untouched grows into a beautiful tree. A lot of people shape them into hedges.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cram facts and information down our kids' throats but let them lead the
way. If we did force more of schoolish stuff would their synapses
develop more and thus help their brain develop more?***
Why would schoolish stuff be more important experiential learning than other learning to develop synapses?
Whether or not it's true that more experiences develop more synapses, wouldn't change the fact that kids who are allowed to experience the world in a peaceful happy learning environment will learn more and better than kids who are stuffed into a classroom with a bunch of other kids who may or may not like them and forced to do things they may or may not be interested in.
Forcing things on others has never proven to create happy learning. Forcing learning doesn't work either, if it did schools would churn out a 100% success rate of their fine products of children.
The growing and trimming of synapses could be a bit like pruning a bush. A kid in school might be getting all the wrong branches trimmed off. A kid who is unschooling might grow and shape naturally, following the light and allowing their branches to die off naturally as they are no longer needed. A common bush that gets trimmed and shaped around here is a type of cedar, that if left untouched grows into a beautiful tree. A lot of people shape them into hedges.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Josh Moll
I recently had Lyme disease in my brain, which left about twenty little
holes. Luckily I can still walk and talk, but I couldn’t drive a car anymore.
The neurologist told me that if I could be relaxed about it most of the
synapses and connecting cables would grow back. Not in the same way but in a
new way, with all the new experiences I would have. Not being anxious about it
would help because of the lower levels of adrenalin and other stress hormones.
The neurologist told me that the brain is an ever regenerating organ, and that
learning things works best when you are happy.
It made me be even more positive about unschooling (learning things in a
relaxed environment) and happy because of the power in my own body, that it can
regenerate itself.
I can drive again, it took me three months. Recently I started doing very complicated
work again (information analysis and programming software) I can't do it for
hours, but for two hours in a row works. It makes my brain work hard, but it
works and makes me happy (and it brings some hard needed cash in our
household).
Maybe this helps in this discussion.
Josh (mama to Olaf, 18 and Alma, 8)
http://thuisschool.wordpress.com/
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 7:32:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Synapses & Brain Development
Well! Speaking of cognitive retention, this just came in the e-mail
from TED.com
Clay Shirky looks at "cognitive surplus" -- the collective online work
we do with our spare brain cycles (like editing Wikipedia and yes,
making LOLcats). Watch now >>
http://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_how_cognitive_surplus_will_change_the_world.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
holes. Luckily I can still walk and talk, but I couldn’t drive a car anymore.
The neurologist told me that if I could be relaxed about it most of the
synapses and connecting cables would grow back. Not in the same way but in a
new way, with all the new experiences I would have. Not being anxious about it
would help because of the lower levels of adrenalin and other stress hormones.
The neurologist told me that the brain is an ever regenerating organ, and that
learning things works best when you are happy.
It made me be even more positive about unschooling (learning things in a
relaxed environment) and happy because of the power in my own body, that it can
regenerate itself.
I can drive again, it took me three months. Recently I started doing very complicated
work again (information analysis and programming software) I can't do it for
hours, but for two hours in a row works. It makes my brain work hard, but it
works and makes me happy (and it brings some hard needed cash in our
household).
Maybe this helps in this discussion.
Josh (mama to Olaf, 18 and Alma, 8)
http://thuisschool.wordpress.com/
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 7:32:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Synapses & Brain Development
Well! Speaking of cognitive retention, this just came in the e-mail
from TED.com
Clay Shirky looks at "cognitive surplus" -- the collective online work
we do with our spare brain cycles (like editing Wikipedia and yes,
making LOLcats). Watch now >>
http://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_how_cognitive_surplus_will_change_the_world.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Sandra Dodd
-=-A common bush that gets trimmed and shaped around here is a type of
cedar, that if left untouched grows into a beautiful tree. A lot of
people shape them into hedges. -=-
People have enslaved trees and are turning them into fences!
It's like Farpoint Station (Star Trek TNG pilot).
I don't think it rates a protest song, but is IS a good example of
control and limitations.
If someone knew almost nothing in the world but trivia relating to
popular music for the past 100 years, that would make a HELL of a good
grid over which to lay other things. And I don't think a thorough
knowledge of pop music (in any culture or language) over this
particular past hundred years, which saw the proliferation of recorded
music available in homes, the advent of radio broadcasts, movies with
music, television variety shows, transistor radios, cassette players
in cars, CDs, iPods and cell phones that store a ton of music could
help but create a timeline of the culture. Wouldn't songs from Marx
Brothers or Fred Astaire movies remind people of The Great
Depression? Can anyone hear big-band swing music and not also think
of the hairdos and costumes? Does "Boogie-Woogie Bugle Boy not remind
anyone of WWII? Knowing some of the context of Gene Autrey and Roy
Rogers brings up LOTS of stories about where those songs were first
heard.
The lyrics of some of the songs make specific mention of historical
events, and that could help dating things, too, if a person were
trying to figure out what came first.
Any hobby delved into deeply becomes another portal to the whole
world--real and imagined; past, present and future.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cedar, that if left untouched grows into a beautiful tree. A lot of
people shape them into hedges. -=-
People have enslaved trees and are turning them into fences!
It's like Farpoint Station (Star Trek TNG pilot).
I don't think it rates a protest song, but is IS a good example of
control and limitations.
If someone knew almost nothing in the world but trivia relating to
popular music for the past 100 years, that would make a HELL of a good
grid over which to lay other things. And I don't think a thorough
knowledge of pop music (in any culture or language) over this
particular past hundred years, which saw the proliferation of recorded
music available in homes, the advent of radio broadcasts, movies with
music, television variety shows, transistor radios, cassette players
in cars, CDs, iPods and cell phones that store a ton of music could
help but create a timeline of the culture. Wouldn't songs from Marx
Brothers or Fred Astaire movies remind people of The Great
Depression? Can anyone hear big-band swing music and not also think
of the hairdos and costumes? Does "Boogie-Woogie Bugle Boy not remind
anyone of WWII? Knowing some of the context of Gene Autrey and Roy
Rogers brings up LOTS of stories about where those songs were first
heard.
The lyrics of some of the songs make specific mention of historical
events, and that could help dating things, too, if a person were
trying to figure out what came first.
Any hobby delved into deeply becomes another portal to the whole
world--real and imagined; past, present and future.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I recently had Lyme disease in my brain, which left about twenty
little
holes. Luckily I can still walk and talk, but I couldn�t drive a car
anymore.
The neurologist told me that if I could be relaxed about it most of the
synapses and connecting cables would grow back.-=-
Oh my!!
I'm glad you survived. That's a very scary story, but super useful in
this discussion. I'm glad you can drive again and all that. Thanks
for sharing this.
-=-The neurologist told me that the brain is an ever regenerating
organ, and that
learning things works best when you are happy.
It made me be even more positive about unschooling (learning things in a
relaxed environment) and happy because of the power in my own body,
that it can
regenerate itself. -=-
Sweet.
It seems clear from being with my kids when they were (or are) doing
anything at all that a happy moment was a learning moment, and a
frightened, frustrated moment was more like a step backwards.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
little
holes. Luckily I can still walk and talk, but I couldn�t drive a car
anymore.
The neurologist told me that if I could be relaxed about it most of the
synapses and connecting cables would grow back.-=-
Oh my!!
I'm glad you survived. That's a very scary story, but super useful in
this discussion. I'm glad you can drive again and all that. Thanks
for sharing this.
-=-The neurologist told me that the brain is an ever regenerating
organ, and that
learning things works best when you are happy.
It made me be even more positive about unschooling (learning things in a
relaxed environment) and happy because of the power in my own body,
that it can
regenerate itself. -=-
Sweet.
It seems clear from being with my kids when they were (or are) doing
anything at all that a happy moment was a learning moment, and a
frightened, frustrated moment was more like a step backwards.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
alisonmacnamara
--- In [email protected], "Carrie Labinski" <labinski@...> wrote:
Neuroscience researchers think our brains make nearly twice as many synaptic connections than we could ever use. They call this "blooming," and "pruning" deals with the overproduction, at different times in different brain areas (this relates to the "critical periods" another poster mentioned).
In the prefrontal cortext (higher-level thinking, self-regulation), peak overproduction occurs at about age 1, yet still doesn't reach it's adult level of synaptic density until middle to late adolescence. Then there's said to be a period of "pruning" which is "critical" for higher-order cognitive functioning such as reasoning.
So the way I understand it, major "pruning" at certain "critical" stages is a normal developmental process, like puberty. Also, because of the brain's "plasticity" (as another poster mentioned), our brains are always "blooming" and "pruning" based on our interests, our attention, our focus.
>I studied developmental psych a few years ago, but couldn't quite remember the details. This got me curious and I looked it up - reforging those synaptic pathways? :)
> I've heard that children development many, many synapses in their brain but then a pruning occurs. If a synapse isn't used, it's pruned.
Neuroscience researchers think our brains make nearly twice as many synaptic connections than we could ever use. They call this "blooming," and "pruning" deals with the overproduction, at different times in different brain areas (this relates to the "critical periods" another poster mentioned).
In the prefrontal cortext (higher-level thinking, self-regulation), peak overproduction occurs at about age 1, yet still doesn't reach it's adult level of synaptic density until middle to late adolescence. Then there's said to be a period of "pruning" which is "critical" for higher-order cognitive functioning such as reasoning.
So the way I understand it, major "pruning" at certain "critical" stages is a normal developmental process, like puberty. Also, because of the brain's "plasticity" (as another poster mentioned), our brains are always "blooming" and "pruning" based on our interests, our attention, our focus.
>I think the more experiences a child has, the more synapses s/he will FORM (in the overproduction phase, or childhood/early adolescence). The ones that are the most interesting will be stronger, thus retained. The ones least developed will fade to make way for the more interesting.
> So the more experiences the child has, the more synapses he'll retain.
plaidpanties666
> "There are optimal or "sensitive periods" during which particular typesPeople get all wound up about "sensitive periods" - and with kids in school, not allowed to follow their natural inclinations, there's some reason for that, but unschooling kids don't have that handicap. They get to explore their "sensitive periods" in ways that make sense to them.
> of learning are most
> effective, despite this lifetime plasticity.
Schoolish thinking is that its the adults/teachers who have to discover these "sensitive periods" and exploit them in a series of teachable moments or whatever but in natural learning a child whose brain is developing a lot in one area is going to be naturally drawn to explore and learn in that area. That's why (or partly why) its so important to be open to kids pursuing passions - "passion" is what a "sensitive period" looks like in real life.
---Meredith
k
Eureka.... this is why telling people who don't want to know in depth
about the "train wreck" they perceive unschooling to be exercises fear
rather than learning about the philosophy. Anybody who doesn't want to
know about unschooling but feels compelled to for any reason (job
requirement to find something sensational to grab more ratings, Juju
Chang of Good Morning America for instance; being a reluctant relative
of an unschooled child).
Those people are unlikely to learn about unschooling just by hearing info.
~Katherine
about the "train wreck" they perceive unschooling to be exercises fear
rather than learning about the philosophy. Anybody who doesn't want to
know about unschooling but feels compelled to for any reason (job
requirement to find something sensational to grab more ratings, Juju
Chang of Good Morning America for instance; being a reluctant relative
of an unschooled child).
Those people are unlikely to learn about unschooling just by hearing info.
~Katherine
On 6/29/10, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-I recently had Lyme disease in my brain, which left about twenty
> little
> holes. Luckily I can still walk and talk, but I couldn’t drive a car
> anymore.
> The neurologist told me that if I could be relaxed about it most of the
> synapses and connecting cables would grow back.-=-
>
> Oh my!!
>
> I'm glad you survived. That's a very scary story, but super useful in
> this discussion. I'm glad you can drive again and all that. Thanks
> for sharing this.
>
> -=-The neurologist told me that the brain is an ever regenerating
> organ, and that
> learning things works best when you are happy.
> It made me be even more positive about unschooling (learning things in a
> relaxed environment) and happy because of the power in my own body,
> that it can
> regenerate itself. -=-
>
> Sweet.
>
> It seems clear from being with my kids when they were (or are) doing
> anything at all that a happy moment was a learning moment, and a
> frightened, frustrated moment was more like a step backwards.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Heather
Sandra Dodd wrote:
because there are neural pathways in the brain that close at a certain
age, I did some research online about the subject. I sent the results
of what I found by email to my cousin, who at the time was doing
post-doc work in neural science at MIT. He confirmed that the
information I found was representative of what he knew to be the general
consensus in the neural science field at that time.
The conclusion I drew from the evidence I found at that time was that
learning was a lifelong process, and that while there may be sensitive
periods for certain types of learning at certain ages, neural pathways
do not close permanently.
I am a poor typist and overly busy, but VERY interested in the
discussion here. I most often restrain myself from posting for these
reasons, but sometimes lack restraint.
Heather
>After the Waldorf teacher told me that unschooling would not work
>
> -=-I did a little research, and consulted my cousin, who had been doing
> post-doc work at MIT in neural science, and he confirmed that what I
> found was the general consensus in that community about what the
> research was indicating at that point.-=-
>
> Rephrase, please. He confirmed what!? I don't want to read a long
> summary. I want the posts to the list to make sense and be clear.
>
because there are neural pathways in the brain that close at a certain
age, I did some research online about the subject. I sent the results
of what I found by email to my cousin, who at the time was doing
post-doc work in neural science at MIT. He confirmed that the
information I found was representative of what he knew to be the general
consensus in the neural science field at that time.
The conclusion I drew from the evidence I found at that time was that
learning was a lifelong process, and that while there may be sensitive
periods for certain types of learning at certain ages, neural pathways
do not close permanently.
I am a poor typist and overly busy, but VERY interested in the
discussion here. I most often restrain myself from posting for these
reasons, but sometimes lack restraint.
Heather