Because I Said So
Amanda's Shoebox
This morning I posted the following on my FB page along with several links I've been reading on Sandra's website:
"One of the things I most regret saying to my children? 'Because I said so' ... I missed many an opportunity to share my experiences and wisdom with them."
My father commented with the following:
"what I can say in your defense is that, in the real world working for someone else, most of the time that is the only reason a boss will give you when he tells you to do something. Or, if working for yourself, it is the only thing a client will give you for a reason. You suck it up to earn a living. Even if you find a way to earn a living without relying on others to pay you, the 'because I said so' reason is the only one given by the Almighty US Government.
Good for them to get used to it."
A friend of mine then commented:
"I agree... Some times they have to just accept 'because I said so'. :)"
Now, I've thought about and think I have some great rebuttals, but was wondering if we could discuss "because I said so" a little here before I respond on FB.
~ Amanda
"One of the things I most regret saying to my children? 'Because I said so' ... I missed many an opportunity to share my experiences and wisdom with them."
My father commented with the following:
"what I can say in your defense is that, in the real world working for someone else, most of the time that is the only reason a boss will give you when he tells you to do something. Or, if working for yourself, it is the only thing a client will give you for a reason. You suck it up to earn a living. Even if you find a way to earn a living without relying on others to pay you, the 'because I said so' reason is the only one given by the Almighty US Government.
Good for them to get used to it."
A friend of mine then commented:
"I agree... Some times they have to just accept 'because I said so'. :)"
Now, I've thought about and think I have some great rebuttals, but was wondering if we could discuss "because I said so" a little here before I respond on FB.
~ Amanda
Robin Bentley
I'm sure you'll get lots of good responses (I might even have one
later!), but first I'll say that unless you want unwanted advice and
until you feel really, really secure in what you're doing, *don't*
post your innermost thoughts about unschooling/parenting on Facebook.
We've been unschooling for over 9 years, (dd is 15) and I won't post
that stuff. Sandra can. She's an authority and can argue the finest
points. So can Pam or Joyce. Not me!
Robin B.
later!), but first I'll say that unless you want unwanted advice and
until you feel really, really secure in what you're doing, *don't*
post your innermost thoughts about unschooling/parenting on Facebook.
We've been unschooling for over 9 years, (dd is 15) and I won't post
that stuff. Sandra can. She's an authority and can argue the finest
points. So can Pam or Joyce. Not me!
Robin B.
On Jun 22, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Amanda's Shoebox wrote:
> This morning I posted the following on my FB page along with several
> links I've been reading on Sandra's website:
plaidpanties666
"Amanda's Shoebox" <amandasshoebox@...> wrote:
And that's why there are employees who cheat their bosses royally. Seriously, employees who understand *why* the rules and proceedures are what they are are better employees, more likely to make good decisions, more likely to support the structure even when they don't agree with everything 100%. Its employees who are stuck with only ideas or comply or resist that damage companies, big and small.
I don't want my kids to accept rules or even laws *just* because they are there. I want them to think about reasons and think about whether they agree or disagree. If they disagree with the reasons, I want them to know they have more options than rebellion or sneakiness. Not all rules and laws are good, after all!
---Meredith
>> "what I can say in your defense is that, in the real world working for someone else, most of the time that is the only reason a boss will give you when he tells you to do something.***************
And that's why there are employees who cheat their bosses royally. Seriously, employees who understand *why* the rules and proceedures are what they are are better employees, more likely to make good decisions, more likely to support the structure even when they don't agree with everything 100%. Its employees who are stuck with only ideas or comply or resist that damage companies, big and small.
I don't want my kids to accept rules or even laws *just* because they are there. I want them to think about reasons and think about whether they agree or disagree. If they disagree with the reasons, I want them to know they have more options than rebellion or sneakiness. Not all rules and laws are good, after all!
---Meredith
Jenny Cyphers
***"One of the things I most regret saying to my children? 'Because I said so' ... I missed many an opportunity to share my experiences and wisdom with them."
My father commented with the following:
"what I can say in your defense is that, in the real world working for someone else, most of the time that is the only reason a boss will give you when he tells you to do something. Or, if working for yourself, it is the only thing a client will give you for a reason. You suck it up to earn a living. Even if you find a way to earn a living without relying on others to pay you, the 'because I said so' reason is the only one given by the Almighty US Government.
Good for them to get used to it."***
My first thought is that if an adult is in the working world and someone says "because I said so...", then your reason for just doing it, is pretty clear, you want to get a paycheck and keep your job or your client. Even with paying taxes, you do it because it's the law. You have a reason and a choice with consequences.
When a parent says that to a child, there is an assumption that there is no choice in the matter. To me, that's a big difference!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My father commented with the following:
"what I can say in your defense is that, in the real world working for someone else, most of the time that is the only reason a boss will give you when he tells you to do something. Or, if working for yourself, it is the only thing a client will give you for a reason. You suck it up to earn a living. Even if you find a way to earn a living without relying on others to pay you, the 'because I said so' reason is the only one given by the Almighty US Government.
Good for them to get used to it."***
My first thought is that if an adult is in the working world and someone says "because I said so...", then your reason for just doing it, is pretty clear, you want to get a paycheck and keep your job or your client. Even with paying taxes, you do it because it's the law. You have a reason and a choice with consequences.
When a parent says that to a child, there is an assumption that there is no choice in the matter. To me, that's a big difference!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Emily S
--- In [email protected], "Amanda's Shoebox" <amandasshoebox@...> wrote:
I can say having been a manager at several of those jobs that any decent employer WANTS his employees to know why they are doing what they are doing because it creates a team environment, gives the employee more ownership in her job, she might come up with a better idea, she'll probably stick around longer, decreases resentment, and so many other things.
As far as the government telling us what to do "just because" that is just scary that anyone would think that is ok! WE are supposed to run the government, not the other way around. The people working for the government are hired SERVANTS of the people. We tell them what to do, so if anyone should be saying "because I said so" it's the people TO the government. If someone doesn't understand why a law is in place, they should go research it and find out why it was passed. Then if they don't agree with it, make efforts to change it. Not just sit there and say "well I was told to do it so I guess I have to."
Emily
>What jobs has he worked? I have never had a job where I was not told why I was doing what I was doing. That's from the time I was 14 and working at a summer camp, then a pizza parlor, a golf course, retail, and property management. I have never had a boss say or imply "because I said so." I am just sitting here scratching my head. Now maybe the *way* they want some things done is not always the *way* I would do it and I do it that way because they said so. But I still always understood why this particular aspect of the job needed to be done. Even if I didn't agree it was best, there was some understanding of where they were coming from and that there was some semblance of logic and a reason behind it.
> This morning I posted the following on my FB page along with several links I've been reading on Sandra's website:
>
> "One of the things I most regret saying to my children? 'Because I said so' ... I missed many an opportunity to share my experiences and wisdom with them."
>
> My father commented with the following:
>
> "what I can say in your defense is that, in the real world working for someone else, most of the time that is the only reason a boss will give you when he tells you to do something. Or, if working for yourself, it is the only thing a client will give you for a reason. You suck it up to earn a living. Even if you find a way to earn a living without relying on others to pay you, the 'because I said so' reason is the only one given by the Almighty US Government.
>
> Good for them to get used to it."
>
> A friend of mine then commented:
>
> "I agree... Some times they have to just accept 'because I said so'. :)"
>
> Now, I've thought about and think I have some great rebuttals, but was wondering if we could discuss "because I said so" a little here before I respond on FB.
>
> ~ Amanda
>
I can say having been a manager at several of those jobs that any decent employer WANTS his employees to know why they are doing what they are doing because it creates a team environment, gives the employee more ownership in her job, she might come up with a better idea, she'll probably stick around longer, decreases resentment, and so many other things.
As far as the government telling us what to do "just because" that is just scary that anyone would think that is ok! WE are supposed to run the government, not the other way around. The people working for the government are hired SERVANTS of the people. We tell them what to do, so if anyone should be saying "because I said so" it's the people TO the government. If someone doesn't understand why a law is in place, they should go research it and find out why it was passed. Then if they don't agree with it, make efforts to change it. Not just sit there and say "well I was told to do it so I guess I have to."
Emily
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/22/2010 12:38 PM, Robin Bentley wrote:
unschooling, and never will, by NOT saying things on facebook that will
really offend them or get them arguing with me. Only a couple of times
have I risked it and only once has one of my sisters responded to
something - it was an anti-school thing I posted and she's an elementary
school teacher with several different teaching credentials. She posted
"yawn." I left it without responding and, thank you, none of my friends
responded, either. I have no idea what it meant, but she and I just
spent the last 3 hours having coffee together and just hanging out and
I'm really glad we can ignore our sometimes-glaring differences of
opinion about schooling.
Maturity is NOT feeling a need to convince others around us that we're
right. I know unschooling is awesome - it doesn't really matter what
anybody else thinks, I don't need to argue with them, I can let them
just keep thinking whatever they think as LONG as they treat my kids
well. And my sisters are super super nice and sweet to my kids - they
obviously love them like crazy.
It is very possible to have a good and sweet relationship with someone
who doesn't get unschoolingat all. I overlook the kind of conventional
comments my extended family might occasionally make about kids. I
overlook that they are pretty convinced that what messes kids up is a
lack of rules and boundaries and limits. They mean well and they don't
try to impose anything on my kids. They may believe in consistent rules
and all that, they may impose chores and have regular fusses with their
own kids over them, but how does that keep us from playing games
together and talking about books we've read and going to a movie or
bowling?
Things could have been different in my family. I could have been prickly
and insisted that they acknowledge that unschooling is wonderful. I
could have alienated my sisters. I could STILL do that if I responded
when they say things like, "Kids need limits." But, it isn't my job to
tell them how to parent. I don't let them tell me, either - if they ever
said anything about it I'd just smile and say, "Hey, you know how I am,
I always do things differently." They'd smile and agree.
I love to talk about unschooling - but only to those with a sincere
interest. One of my sisters is somewhat interested, the other not at
all. So - I let their interest be my guide. If they seem interested, I
give them a bit of info, but if they wanted to just argue, I'd say, "I
don't want to argue - let's just not talk about it."
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Sandra can. She's an authority and can argue the finestI try to be kind to my friends and family members who don't get
> points. So can Pam or Joyce. Not me!
unschooling, and never will, by NOT saying things on facebook that will
really offend them or get them arguing with me. Only a couple of times
have I risked it and only once has one of my sisters responded to
something - it was an anti-school thing I posted and she's an elementary
school teacher with several different teaching credentials. She posted
"yawn." I left it without responding and, thank you, none of my friends
responded, either. I have no idea what it meant, but she and I just
spent the last 3 hours having coffee together and just hanging out and
I'm really glad we can ignore our sometimes-glaring differences of
opinion about schooling.
Maturity is NOT feeling a need to convince others around us that we're
right. I know unschooling is awesome - it doesn't really matter what
anybody else thinks, I don't need to argue with them, I can let them
just keep thinking whatever they think as LONG as they treat my kids
well. And my sisters are super super nice and sweet to my kids - they
obviously love them like crazy.
It is very possible to have a good and sweet relationship with someone
who doesn't get unschoolingat all. I overlook the kind of conventional
comments my extended family might occasionally make about kids. I
overlook that they are pretty convinced that what messes kids up is a
lack of rules and boundaries and limits. They mean well and they don't
try to impose anything on my kids. They may believe in consistent rules
and all that, they may impose chores and have regular fusses with their
own kids over them, but how does that keep us from playing games
together and talking about books we've read and going to a movie or
bowling?
Things could have been different in my family. I could have been prickly
and insisted that they acknowledge that unschooling is wonderful. I
could have alienated my sisters. I could STILL do that if I responded
when they say things like, "Kids need limits." But, it isn't my job to
tell them how to parent. I don't let them tell me, either - if they ever
said anything about it I'd just smile and say, "Hey, you know how I am,
I always do things differently." They'd smile and agree.
I love to talk about unschooling - but only to those with a sincere
interest. One of my sisters is somewhat interested, the other not at
all. So - I let their interest be my guide. If they seem interested, I
give them a bit of info, but if they wanted to just argue, I'd say, "I
don't want to argue - let's just not talk about it."
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/22/2010 12:43 PM, plaidpanties666 wrote:
questioned it. She said, more or less, "Do it because I said so." I
said, "I see problems with it." She said, "It is how I want it." I said,
"I'm not willing to do it that way." So - we were at a seeming impasse
(and, no, I don't have tenure). Then I said, "Here is what would make it
doable for me," and I told her a modified version of what she wanted,
that I was okay with. She agreed. It has worked that way for the past
three years and we're both happy. She's not used to being questioned by
adjunct faculty, but I'm not used to being ordered around without being
given explanations, either. She could have done a lot better. I don't go
to her for any help or information or for any reason if I can possibly
help it because I don't trust her not to make arbitrary decisions and
give orders.
So - yeah - if you want your kids to avoid you, just give them orders to
"Do it because I say so."
-pam
> I don't want my kids to accept rules or even laws *just* because theyMy boss, the dean of my college dvision, told me to do something. I
> are there.
questioned it. She said, more or less, "Do it because I said so." I
said, "I see problems with it." She said, "It is how I want it." I said,
"I'm not willing to do it that way." So - we were at a seeming impasse
(and, no, I don't have tenure). Then I said, "Here is what would make it
doable for me," and I told her a modified version of what she wanted,
that I was okay with. She agreed. It has worked that way for the past
three years and we're both happy. She's not used to being questioned by
adjunct faculty, but I'm not used to being ordered around without being
given explanations, either. She could have done a lot better. I don't go
to her for any help or information or for any reason if I can possibly
help it because I don't trust her not to make arbitrary decisions and
give orders.
So - yeah - if you want your kids to avoid you, just give them orders to
"Do it because I say so."
-pam
NCMama
The problem I have is less about the phrase "I said so" itself, than with the concept that somehow in my relationship with my sons, I should attempt to emulate an employer. Why would I want to have a boss-like relationship with my boys? I'm their mom. Treating them like a controlling boss might treat them won't help our relationship thrive - it would only serve to alienate them. How would that help their learning? How would that help develop trust?
People often give "It's a rough world out there, best prepare them for it" as an excuse to treat their kids terribly. I decided long ago that if, indeed, the world was such a terrible place, I'd rather provide a gentle loving respite from it, a kind nest to escape to, than make a replica of it.
In doing so, I found that the BEST defense against a rough world is a strong sense of SELF and self-worth, backed up by loving support. A kid won't develop that sense of self, knowing and valuing themselves, if they hear "because I said so" too many times. That kind of phrase shuts kids down, and creates disconnection - from their own selves, and from parents. Who wants that?
And whaddaya know? The world is actually pretty cool where we are. It's not populated by the bullies school proponents believe kids must prepare for, nor is it filled with people who say, "Because I said so."
Caren
People often give "It's a rough world out there, best prepare them for it" as an excuse to treat their kids terribly. I decided long ago that if, indeed, the world was such a terrible place, I'd rather provide a gentle loving respite from it, a kind nest to escape to, than make a replica of it.
In doing so, I found that the BEST defense against a rough world is a strong sense of SELF and self-worth, backed up by loving support. A kid won't develop that sense of self, knowing and valuing themselves, if they hear "because I said so" too many times. That kind of phrase shuts kids down, and creates disconnection - from their own selves, and from parents. Who wants that?
And whaddaya know? The world is actually pretty cool where we are. It's not populated by the bullies school proponents believe kids must prepare for, nor is it filled with people who say, "Because I said so."
Caren
Deb Lewis
***most of the time that is the only reason a boss will give you when he tells you to do something.***
Adults can quit a boss who is an asshole. Kid's don't have the option to quit parents. Unless you count running away or suicide.
If a person doesn't have any idea why his boss is asking him to do something, maybe he doesn't understand his job very well. I'm forty seven. I've worked for lots of different people. No one ever said, "Because I said so."
If the boss is just some power trippy nut, then at any time an employee can decide the job isn't worth feeding the bosses power trip. Adults have choices kids don't have.
If a mom or dad thinks a thing is important then there must be a reason it's important Why not share the reason? "Because I said so" is what parents use when there is no real justification for the thing they're telling their kid to do, or, used because the parents have little consideration for the feelings or intelligence of the kid.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Adults can quit a boss who is an asshole. Kid's don't have the option to quit parents. Unless you count running away or suicide.
If a person doesn't have any idea why his boss is asking him to do something, maybe he doesn't understand his job very well. I'm forty seven. I've worked for lots of different people. No one ever said, "Because I said so."
If the boss is just some power trippy nut, then at any time an employee can decide the job isn't worth feeding the bosses power trip. Adults have choices kids don't have.
If a mom or dad thinks a thing is important then there must be a reason it's important Why not share the reason? "Because I said so" is what parents use when there is no real justification for the thing they're telling their kid to do, or, used because the parents have little consideration for the feelings or intelligence of the kid.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amanda's Shoebox
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote: [great advice]
Pam, your post really made me question why I felt the need to respond.
My dad rarely gives advice. Most of the time he's just encouraging of the things he finds positive. You'll notice he even started his comment with "in your defense".
He and his wife are coming to visit next week and it will be the first time we've seen them in over 3 years. While my dad generally keeps his thoughts to himself, his wife loves to comment on everything we do. For example, the last time they were here she spent most of the time critiquing our diet. We're mostly vegetarians that eat fish and eggs occasionally and she is a vegan. She went on and on about how bad fish is for you (mercury poisoning and all) and how we should really be more conscious about having the kids eat more protein (when my girls chose to eat the salad bar when we went out to eat and didn't put any beans on their plate).
While I talk to my dad 3 or 4 times a week, I haven't discussed unschooling at all with my dad and I don't ever talk to his wife unless she happens to answer the phone. He does have access to my 13 year old's blog, however, and she discusses unschooling in many of her posts, so he may know that we're unschooling, but I'm not sure how much he knows about unschooling.
The last time we saw them, we had not started unschooling, and my dad's wife was an elementary school teacher for a long time. The last time we saw my husband's aunt, a high school English teacher, she had pulled my girls to the side when I was engaged in a conversation with someone else and asked them a bunch of questions about what they were doing. We were traditional homeschoolers at the time and she was very positive about what we were doing with the girls, but I'm not so sure she would have been quite so positive had we been unschoolers at the time.
We're still in our infancy stage of unschooling and, while I'll be fine with anything she says to me, I'm not sure how our girls will handle any questioning by my step-mother.
~ Amanda
Pam, your post really made me question why I felt the need to respond.
My dad rarely gives advice. Most of the time he's just encouraging of the things he finds positive. You'll notice he even started his comment with "in your defense".
He and his wife are coming to visit next week and it will be the first time we've seen them in over 3 years. While my dad generally keeps his thoughts to himself, his wife loves to comment on everything we do. For example, the last time they were here she spent most of the time critiquing our diet. We're mostly vegetarians that eat fish and eggs occasionally and she is a vegan. She went on and on about how bad fish is for you (mercury poisoning and all) and how we should really be more conscious about having the kids eat more protein (when my girls chose to eat the salad bar when we went out to eat and didn't put any beans on their plate).
While I talk to my dad 3 or 4 times a week, I haven't discussed unschooling at all with my dad and I don't ever talk to his wife unless she happens to answer the phone. He does have access to my 13 year old's blog, however, and she discusses unschooling in many of her posts, so he may know that we're unschooling, but I'm not sure how much he knows about unschooling.
The last time we saw them, we had not started unschooling, and my dad's wife was an elementary school teacher for a long time. The last time we saw my husband's aunt, a high school English teacher, she had pulled my girls to the side when I was engaged in a conversation with someone else and asked them a bunch of questions about what they were doing. We were traditional homeschoolers at the time and she was very positive about what we were doing with the girls, but I'm not so sure she would have been quite so positive had we been unschoolers at the time.
We're still in our infancy stage of unschooling and, while I'll be fine with anything she says to me, I'm not sure how our girls will handle any questioning by my step-mother.
~ Amanda
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/23/2010 6:48 AM, Amanda's Shoebox wrote:
got your point and will think about it, but let's not talk about it
anymore." If she still keeps on, repeat, "Let's not go there." Next time
- smile knowingly, nod and totally change the subject (pass that
wonderful bean dip, please). Say all this in a calm and kindly tone.
Don't tell them about unschooling - just say you're on vacation from any
schooling while they are there.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> While I talk to my dad 3 or 4 times a week, I haven't discussedBe really clear. When she talks about fish and all that say, "Okay - I
> unschooling at all with my dad and I don't ever talk to his wife
> unless she happens to answer the phone.
got your point and will think about it, but let's not talk about it
anymore." If she still keeps on, repeat, "Let's not go there." Next time
- smile knowingly, nod and totally change the subject (pass that
wonderful bean dip, please). Say all this in a calm and kindly tone.
Don't tell them about unschooling - just say you're on vacation from any
schooling while they are there.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
It might be helpful for you and your kids to brainstorm some things you can say to diffuse uncomforable questions - ways to change the subject or projects and fun activitites you can chat about. It might also be good to let the kids know that grandma doesn't have any business asking about their "education" and if they're uncomforable they can just refer her to you and not answer, or insist that its "not time for school right now" and not answer.
---Meredith
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-We're still in our infancy stage of unschooling and, while I'll be
fine with anything she says to me, I'm not sure how our girls will
handle any questioning by my step-mother. -=-
You could coach the girls to ask "Is this a test?" Or once when
someone was driving us to a conference in another state, he said
something to Holly like, "We have half a tank of gas; that's about ten
gallons. We have [however many miles] to go, and at 25 mpg...."
Holly said, "Do you actually need to know, or are you just trying to
find out if I can figure it out?" He laughed, and got it.
You could tell anyone who's bugging you or the kids that you invited
her as a guest, not as a consultant.
You haven't submitted yourself for an examination, just for a visit.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fine with anything she says to me, I'm not sure how our girls will
handle any questioning by my step-mother. -=-
You could coach the girls to ask "Is this a test?" Or once when
someone was driving us to a conference in another state, he said
something to Holly like, "We have half a tank of gas; that's about ten
gallons. We have [however many miles] to go, and at 25 mpg...."
Holly said, "Do you actually need to know, or are you just trying to
find out if I can figure it out?" He laughed, and got it.
You could tell anyone who's bugging you or the kids that you invited
her as a guest, not as a consultant.
You haven't submitted yourself for an examination, just for a visit.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- Only a couple of times
have I risked it and only once has one of my sisters responded to
something - it was an anti-school thing I posted and she's an elementary
school teacher with several different teaching credentials. She posted
"yawn."-=-
But you weren't writing to her specifically, and that kind of response
is deeply and stunningly rude. It's "you bore me," or "not worth
commenting on" (but to say "not worth commenting on").
I'm impressed, Pam, that you still like her. That was some serious
"innocent" hostility.
Sandra
have I risked it and only once has one of my sisters responded to
something - it was an anti-school thing I posted and she's an elementary
school teacher with several different teaching credentials. She posted
"yawn."-=-
But you weren't writing to her specifically, and that kind of response
is deeply and stunningly rude. It's "you bore me," or "not worth
commenting on" (but to say "not worth commenting on").
I'm impressed, Pam, that you still like her. That was some serious
"innocent" hostility.
Sandra
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/23/2010 7:09 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
that is because she is an extreme conflict-avoider - she'll usually do
almost anything to avoid conflict. It would just be completely out of
character for her to comment in a way that was intended to be critical
at all, much less hostile. She runs a program at an elemenary school,
but it is for 3 and 4 year olds who have severe physical disabilities -
like she has a child in her class who has no arms or legs. So she's not
a regular classroom teacher. She tells stories about things that happen
in her school that she strongly disagrees with and dislikes - she's all
about kids learning through free play, for example, at least for young
children. She hasn't got the idea of how that same philosophy applies to
older kids and adults and she's been the sole breadwinner in her family
for years, so I think she just never thought much about it - she focused
on getting her kids into a little private school that she was happy with.
Some relationships are worth preserving even though we don't agree about
child-rearing practices because the kids will grow up and we still have
our relationship. Turns out our KIDS are super close to each other too -
in spite of having been raised in very very different ways. I know my
niece has felt some anger that she was misled into thinking that she had
to work so hard in high school to be successful in college - since now
she's seen that her cousins, who didn't even go to high school, have
been just as successful in college. I don't think she really gets what
we did (or didn't do - schooling). It isn't really conceivable to her.
Schooling or not schooling isn't the center of my kids' lives - and less
and less significant in my life. My sister and I have sort of just set
that aside and we relate in a zillion other ways. Now that my kids are
grown, hers almost - what is there really to say?
She has asked me for advice, very rarely. My advice is always - let it
go. She asks when her inclination is to loosen up, but she needs some
justification - all her teacher friends would probably be telling her to
tighten up.
-pam
> But you weren't writing to her specifically, and that kind of responseI think she might have meant, "So what else is new?" The reason I think
> is deeply and stunningly rude. It's "you bore me," or "not worth
> commenting on" (but to say "not worth commenting on").
that is because she is an extreme conflict-avoider - she'll usually do
almost anything to avoid conflict. It would just be completely out of
character for her to comment in a way that was intended to be critical
at all, much less hostile. She runs a program at an elemenary school,
but it is for 3 and 4 year olds who have severe physical disabilities -
like she has a child in her class who has no arms or legs. So she's not
a regular classroom teacher. She tells stories about things that happen
in her school that she strongly disagrees with and dislikes - she's all
about kids learning through free play, for example, at least for young
children. She hasn't got the idea of how that same philosophy applies to
older kids and adults and she's been the sole breadwinner in her family
for years, so I think she just never thought much about it - she focused
on getting her kids into a little private school that she was happy with.
Some relationships are worth preserving even though we don't agree about
child-rearing practices because the kids will grow up and we still have
our relationship. Turns out our KIDS are super close to each other too -
in spite of having been raised in very very different ways. I know my
niece has felt some anger that she was misled into thinking that she had
to work so hard in high school to be successful in college - since now
she's seen that her cousins, who didn't even go to high school, have
been just as successful in college. I don't think she really gets what
we did (or didn't do - schooling). It isn't really conceivable to her.
Schooling or not schooling isn't the center of my kids' lives - and less
and less significant in my life. My sister and I have sort of just set
that aside and we relate in a zillion other ways. Now that my kids are
grown, hers almost - what is there really to say?
She has asked me for advice, very rarely. My advice is always - let it
go. She asks when her inclination is to loosen up, but she needs some
justification - all her teacher friends would probably be telling her to
tighten up.
-pam
Vidyut Kale
I'm not my child's boss.
I'd like my child to enjoy dialogue with me rather than 'get used to' me
slamming conversation shut.
I can understand that explanations can be complex in some situations, but I
would try to request for trust till I could talk about things rather than an
order.
I have experienced many 'because I say so's in life and the only common
factor they have had is that I have experienced each one as distancing and
disrespectful of my involvement. I have avoided the persons saying this to
me to the best of my capacity. As a child I tuned them out. As a teenager I
rebelled to the extent of causing a lot of risks to my well being. As I
grew, I learned to initiate conversation among them, but the 'because I said
so's didn't teach me that. I learned from a few wonderful people who were
able to gently ask 'why' or 'what is the value you see' in response to them.
I think those 'because I said so's in my teenage environment in particular
have left me with a deep mistrust of people's intentions by default and
caused damage to many relationships because my automatic responses when the
'whole picture' was not shared were defensive. I assumed that they were not
interested in my involvement and simply wanted me to act as they desired.
Sometimes, my hostility caused damage, when the other had not shared their
thinking but had no issue to sharing it if I was interested. It causes
trouble in my relationship with my husband, it makes me need to really
examine my responses when dealing with authority figures, because I can
often unknowingly be distancing in anticipation of that distancing of me.
While I have no way of knowing if things would be different if I had
experienced respect and involvement with my family, I remember longing to be
a part of the deciding rather than having to go along with whatever was
decided 'because people said so' and 'for my good'.
My parents still see nothing wrong with such attitudes and have no clue why
I ask them to respect my son. To them, he suddenly becomes capable of making
decisions at legal maturity, like I did. They forget that my first big
decision was to move out of their house as a young, beautiful, broke girl
with no knowledge of how to make good choices because I couldn't have the
opportunity till I literally had to swim out with the sharks to grab it.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'd like my child to enjoy dialogue with me rather than 'get used to' me
slamming conversation shut.
I can understand that explanations can be complex in some situations, but I
would try to request for trust till I could talk about things rather than an
order.
I have experienced many 'because I say so's in life and the only common
factor they have had is that I have experienced each one as distancing and
disrespectful of my involvement. I have avoided the persons saying this to
me to the best of my capacity. As a child I tuned them out. As a teenager I
rebelled to the extent of causing a lot of risks to my well being. As I
grew, I learned to initiate conversation among them, but the 'because I said
so's didn't teach me that. I learned from a few wonderful people who were
able to gently ask 'why' or 'what is the value you see' in response to them.
I think those 'because I said so's in my teenage environment in particular
have left me with a deep mistrust of people's intentions by default and
caused damage to many relationships because my automatic responses when the
'whole picture' was not shared were defensive. I assumed that they were not
interested in my involvement and simply wanted me to act as they desired.
Sometimes, my hostility caused damage, when the other had not shared their
thinking but had no issue to sharing it if I was interested. It causes
trouble in my relationship with my husband, it makes me need to really
examine my responses when dealing with authority figures, because I can
often unknowingly be distancing in anticipation of that distancing of me.
While I have no way of knowing if things would be different if I had
experienced respect and involvement with my family, I remember longing to be
a part of the deciding rather than having to go along with whatever was
decided 'because people said so' and 'for my good'.
My parents still see nothing wrong with such attitudes and have no clue why
I ask them to respect my son. To them, he suddenly becomes capable of making
decisions at legal maturity, like I did. They forget that my first big
decision was to move out of their house as a young, beautiful, broke girl
with no knowledge of how to make good choices because I couldn't have the
opportunity till I literally had to swim out with the sharks to grab it.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]