Random bursts of hyperactivity
Molly
In school, they wanted to tell me my son (7 - almost 8) had 'behavioral issues'. He got in trouble a lot. Mostly, what he got in trouble for was of no concern to us at home. He would touch the walls on the way to the bathroom. He couldn't sit still and quiet during circle time. He talked too much about things they weren't discussing. He wouldn't finish his worksheets. I got the impression that they wanted to label him as ADHD. He's fine. He's 7. He is an extremely intelligent young boy with interests that are different from a lot of boys his age (especially those in school).
As far as 'attention deficit', he has no problem paying attention to something he is interested in. A good movie or game can keep him occupied for hours. If he isn't interested, he is moving on to something else.
The one that I am more interested in addressing is his 'random bursts of hyperactivity'. I don't see it as a problem that needs a label and DEFINITELY doesn't need medication, as some have implied to me. I do, however, want to help him keep this under control, at least in social situations. I am not sure if it is because he was the only child for his first five years (we have a 2 year old son also) or because he has really interesting things to talk about and just wants to be able to do that whenever he wants to. I have read and digested a lot about the possibility that children may not be burning off enough energy. That may actually be some of it, mostly because he is much more interested in the computer, electronics, legos and other activities that are more of sitting and thinking and less of running around and burning off energy. He does really well in one on one situations, but it seems like if there is a group he gets to acting very very silly and often times irritating those around him. This is NOT his intention at all, I don't believe. I know he is just trying to get and maintain their attention, and also likes to make people laugh, and this is his version of how to do that. It also happens a lot when we have been spending a lot of time together, and then I have to step away and take care of the little one for a bit. In that situation, it seems like he may be a bit jealous of the attention his brother is receiving, and does whatever he can to turn it back to himself. I try saying things like "Calm down a little bit buddy" and sometimes that works. Other times, it seems more like something that he can't control even if he wanted to. He is a very sweet boy and it hurts me to see others shy away from him because of these outbursts. Any insight you have would be extremely helpful, even if you just tell me he will grow out of it eventually. This is my oldest, so he is the only seven year old I have experience with raising. We are learning as we go, but this seems to be our most recurring cause of frustration.
Molly
As far as 'attention deficit', he has no problem paying attention to something he is interested in. A good movie or game can keep him occupied for hours. If he isn't interested, he is moving on to something else.
The one that I am more interested in addressing is his 'random bursts of hyperactivity'. I don't see it as a problem that needs a label and DEFINITELY doesn't need medication, as some have implied to me. I do, however, want to help him keep this under control, at least in social situations. I am not sure if it is because he was the only child for his first five years (we have a 2 year old son also) or because he has really interesting things to talk about and just wants to be able to do that whenever he wants to. I have read and digested a lot about the possibility that children may not be burning off enough energy. That may actually be some of it, mostly because he is much more interested in the computer, electronics, legos and other activities that are more of sitting and thinking and less of running around and burning off energy. He does really well in one on one situations, but it seems like if there is a group he gets to acting very very silly and often times irritating those around him. This is NOT his intention at all, I don't believe. I know he is just trying to get and maintain their attention, and also likes to make people laugh, and this is his version of how to do that. It also happens a lot when we have been spending a lot of time together, and then I have to step away and take care of the little one for a bit. In that situation, it seems like he may be a bit jealous of the attention his brother is receiving, and does whatever he can to turn it back to himself. I try saying things like "Calm down a little bit buddy" and sometimes that works. Other times, it seems more like something that he can't control even if he wanted to. He is a very sweet boy and it hurts me to see others shy away from him because of these outbursts. Any insight you have would be extremely helpful, even if you just tell me he will grow out of it eventually. This is my oldest, so he is the only seven year old I have experience with raising. We are learning as we go, but this seems to be our most recurring cause of frustration.
Molly
plaidpanties666
"Molly" <mjphipps@...> wrote:
Look really hard at the idea that they're random! I have two energetic kids and know that what can seem "random" can often be traced to things like needing protein, or needing more attention, or needing to do something big and wild and rough for awhile! My 8yo has regular cycles of higher and lower energy, but my 16yo, when he was younger, was more likely to get wild (as opposed to just needing to run around) during a transition.
It can help to look for ways for him to burn off a little energy while also doing those other things - like a mini trampoline or bouncy ball or sit-n-spin right by the tv or computer. It can also help for you to make a conscious effort to engage him in fun, energetic things. At some convenient stopping point in his game or show or play (very important!) offer to wrestle or play soccer or go climb something - whatever he tends to enjoy. Help him figure out that he needs breaks by giving him chances to take them that are appealing to him.
When Ray was younger it helped for him to have someone who was happy to make him the center of that one person's attention during parties or group events. He *wanted* to socialize, but didn't have the greatest skills yet for making sure others were having a good time - that's something that comes with development to some extent. Younger kids tend to assume if they're having fun, then everyone else must be, too. So its kinder and more helpful to create ways for them to get the attention they need without driving the rest of the group up the wall.
Some of it may be the sudden transition - can you include him more when you're interacting with the younger child? Make it more of a group thing? Can you ask him to help you take care of the younger?
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>>***********
> The one that I am more interested in addressing is his 'random bursts of hyperactivity'
Look really hard at the idea that they're random! I have two energetic kids and know that what can seem "random" can often be traced to things like needing protein, or needing more attention, or needing to do something big and wild and rough for awhile! My 8yo has regular cycles of higher and lower energy, but my 16yo, when he was younger, was more likely to get wild (as opposed to just needing to run around) during a transition.
>> I have read and digested a lot about the possibility that children may not be burning off enough energy. That may actually be some of it, mostly because he is much more interested in the computer, electronics, legos and other activities that are more of sitting and thinking and less of running around and burning off energy.**************
It can help to look for ways for him to burn off a little energy while also doing those other things - like a mini trampoline or bouncy ball or sit-n-spin right by the tv or computer. It can also help for you to make a conscious effort to engage him in fun, energetic things. At some convenient stopping point in his game or show or play (very important!) offer to wrestle or play soccer or go climb something - whatever he tends to enjoy. Help him figure out that he needs breaks by giving him chances to take them that are appealing to him.
>> He does really well in one on one situations, but it seems like if there is a group he gets to acting very very silly and often times irritating those around him.**************
When Ray was younger it helped for him to have someone who was happy to make him the center of that one person's attention during parties or group events. He *wanted* to socialize, but didn't have the greatest skills yet for making sure others were having a good time - that's something that comes with development to some extent. Younger kids tend to assume if they're having fun, then everyone else must be, too. So its kinder and more helpful to create ways for them to get the attention they need without driving the rest of the group up the wall.
>> It also happens a lot when we have been spending a lot of time together, and then I have to step away and take care of the little one for a bit. In that situation, it seems like he may be a bit jealous**************
Some of it may be the sudden transition - can you include him more when you're interacting with the younger child? Make it more of a group thing? Can you ask him to help you take care of the younger?
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/22/2010 12:36 PM, plaidpanties666 wrote:
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 'random bursts of hyperactivity'Occasional bursts of extra energy, you mean?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "Molly" <mjphipps@...> wrote:
"Hyperactivity" is in the eye of the beholder. How do you know when your son is being more active than the norm? What do you measure his activity against? How do you know his normal activity isn't "hypo" active? How does anybody know it's "normal"? "Normal" is not the same as "statistically most frequent" as many parents and other adults seem to believe.
High energy is valued in many areas of society. Not in the school classroom though or any social situation where the grown ups want peace and quiet. Is it that his behaviour when expressed in public places makes you uncomfortable?
Bob
>"Attention deficit" is a concept invented by the American Psychiatric Association - one of its more insidious fantasies. Attention is always somewhere, it's that it's somewhere other than where a teacher or other adult wants it that causes the aggravation. That's not a deficiency of attention. It's adultism.
> In school, they wanted to tell me my son (7 - almost 8) had 'behavioral issues'. He got in trouble a lot. Mostly, what he got in trouble for was of no concern to us at home. He would touch the walls on the way to the bathroom. He couldn't sit still and quiet during circle time. He talked too much about things they weren't discussing. He wouldn't finish his worksheets. I got the impression that they wanted to label him as ADHD. He's fine. He's 7. He is an extremely intelligent young boy with interests that are different from a lot of boys his age (especially those in school).
>
> As far as 'attention deficit', he has no problem paying attention to something he is interested in. A good movie or game can keep him occupied for hours. If he isn't interested, he is moving on to something else.
>You say you want to help your son keep his bursts of high energy under control. Do you mean he wants to keep them under control?
> The one that I am more interested in addressing is his 'random bursts of hyperactivity'. I don't see it as a problem that needs a label and DEFINITELY doesn't need medication, as some have implied to me. I do, however, want to help him keep this under control, at least in social situations.
"Hyperactivity" is in the eye of the beholder. How do you know when your son is being more active than the norm? What do you measure his activity against? How do you know his normal activity isn't "hypo" active? How does anybody know it's "normal"? "Normal" is not the same as "statistically most frequent" as many parents and other adults seem to believe.
High energy is valued in many areas of society. Not in the school classroom though or any social situation where the grown ups want peace and quiet. Is it that his behaviour when expressed in public places makes you uncomfortable?
Bob
Molly
You say you want to help your son keep his bursts of high energy under control. Do you mean he wants to keep them under control?
***Now that I think of it, he seems to be okay with it.
High energy is valued in many areas of society. Not in the school classroom though or any social situation where the grown ups want peace and quiet. Is it that his behaviour when expressed in public places makes you uncomfortable?
****I think I used hyper activity because of the label I had in mind, but that probably isn't the best way to describe what I meant. He does have hyper moments. Lots of them! He is having a chill moment right now because he is really engrossed in a new game.
One example that I can think of to try to describe what I mean: We saw a young friend of Jayden's the other day when we were walking, and she said "Hi Jayden" and waved at him. He got really close to her face and made a loud strange noise at her, but never said hi. I suppose it is more ME being uncomfortable with HIS behavior, though. I also see the way others react to his behavior, and knowing my son, I know he doesn't want people to react badly to him. There are also outbursts where he has hurt the little ones either out of anger or out of excitement. I am not sure if this makes any sense, but I call it his 'ping ping ping' mode :) Sometimes it is his talking that is in overdrive, and sometimes it is his body. Sometimes it's both!
***Now that I think of it, he seems to be okay with it.
High energy is valued in many areas of society. Not in the school classroom though or any social situation where the grown ups want peace and quiet. Is it that his behaviour when expressed in public places makes you uncomfortable?
****I think I used hyper activity because of the label I had in mind, but that probably isn't the best way to describe what I meant. He does have hyper moments. Lots of them! He is having a chill moment right now because he is really engrossed in a new game.
One example that I can think of to try to describe what I mean: We saw a young friend of Jayden's the other day when we were walking, and she said "Hi Jayden" and waved at him. He got really close to her face and made a loud strange noise at her, but never said hi. I suppose it is more ME being uncomfortable with HIS behavior, though. I also see the way others react to his behavior, and knowing my son, I know he doesn't want people to react badly to him. There are also outbursts where he has hurt the little ones either out of anger or out of excitement. I am not sure if this makes any sense, but I call it his 'ping ping ping' mode :) Sometimes it is his talking that is in overdrive, and sometimes it is his body. Sometimes it's both!
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "Molly" <mjphipps@...> wrote:
It sounds like he was trying to connect in a playful way and maybe it didn't come across like that. Really, I had a moment of nostalgia - he sounds like some of the guys I dated in college, a little off-beat and clueless sometimes, but heck, I still dated them!
Do you think he wants some advice for how to socialize more effectively or would that leave him feeling uncomfortable? That might be something you could ask him. Does he seem to like being a little quirky and different from other people, or do you think he'd rather blend in?
Mo tends to play too rough for kids who are younger and/or smaller than she is. That's something I've talked about with her, right up to saying "don't play with the little kids" if we're at a park or somewhere I don't know the families. Children don't always have a good sense of the abilities of others - other children or adults for that matter - and while its sometimes possible to help kids have more understanding or empathy in the moment, its not always possible.
If these are your kids, then its important that you be on hand while they play to make sure the bigger kid doesn't run roughshod over the littles, and to also help the younger kids develop some strategies - like yelling for mom!
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>the other day when we were walking, and she said "Hi Jayden" and waved at him. He got really close to her face and made a loud strange noise at her, but never said hi.************
It sounds like he was trying to connect in a playful way and maybe it didn't come across like that. Really, I had a moment of nostalgia - he sounds like some of the guys I dated in college, a little off-beat and clueless sometimes, but heck, I still dated them!
>I also see the way others react to his behavior, and knowing my son, I know he doesn't want people to react badly to him.***********
Do you think he wants some advice for how to socialize more effectively or would that leave him feeling uncomfortable? That might be something you could ask him. Does he seem to like being a little quirky and different from other people, or do you think he'd rather blend in?
>>There are also outbursts where he has hurt the little ones either out of anger or out of excitement.***************
Mo tends to play too rough for kids who are younger and/or smaller than she is. That's something I've talked about with her, right up to saying "don't play with the little kids" if we're at a park or somewhere I don't know the families. Children don't always have a good sense of the abilities of others - other children or adults for that matter - and while its sometimes possible to help kids have more understanding or empathy in the moment, its not always possible.
If these are your kids, then its important that you be on hand while they play to make sure the bigger kid doesn't run roughshod over the littles, and to also help the younger kids develop some strategies - like yelling for mom!
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Sandra Dodd
-=
Look really hard at the idea that they're random! I have two energetic
kids and know that what can seem "random" can often be traced to
things like needing protein, or needing more attention, or needing to
do something big and wild and rough for awhile! My 8yo has regular
cycles of higher and lower energy, but my 16yo, when he was younger,
was more likely to get wild (as opposed to just needing to run around)
during a transition. -=-
I agree. Not so random.
Here are some ideas for protein and more physical activities.
All of unschooling is about "more attention."
http://sandradodd.com/eating/protein
http://sandradodd.com/physicality
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Look really hard at the idea that they're random! I have two energetic
kids and know that what can seem "random" can often be traced to
things like needing protein, or needing more attention, or needing to
do something big and wild and rough for awhile! My 8yo has regular
cycles of higher and lower energy, but my 16yo, when he was younger,
was more likely to get wild (as opposed to just needing to run around)
during a transition. -=-
I agree. Not so random.
Here are some ideas for protein and more physical activities.
All of unschooling is about "more attention."
http://sandradodd.com/eating/protein
http://sandradodd.com/physicality
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shirlinda_momof3
Some of his behaviors mimic my 11 yoDD. She has undiagnosed Asperger's. We have chosen not to label her, but instead we use the advice from several friends, websites and books. This has helped us to understand that although her brain is wired differently, she can learn to cope in the normal world.
Unfortunately, we do not get to decide what is normal; that has already been established by mainstream society. But we can give her the tools to live in this world. I know others will say that all kids are different and there are no such things as Asperger's, ADHD and Autism. But I know from personal experience that some kids just aren't like their peers. No matter how you try to help your kid: giving him an outlet for his energy, or extra protein; he may not be able to change.
If he is 'wired differently' these behaviors are normal for him and he may not even know that he is doing it. Making a strange noise as a 'hello' to his friend was perfectly ok with him. He probably thought he was actually saying 'hello'. Telling you that he just can't stop bouncing may not mean that he needs more activities, just a place to bounce. And touching the walls is a way to connect with the physical world in a loud, changing environment. Maybe he needs to balance his head (mind) and his body by touching a solid object.
Raising an autistic child is challenging; especially with 2 younger children who are so different from her! My 5 yo nephew is also autistic, with some of the same symptoms as my daughter. Although his are more severe and are more difficult to manage.
There is a lot to say about the vast array of childhood behaviors. Each child is different. Personality is formed by genetics, upbringing, life experiences, etc. We just go with the flow and give them a supportive, loving environment.
Unschooling is perfect for my family (and my sister's family.) We can just be there for our kids and facilitate their learning and growing. But it is also a relief to know that there are actual, medical diagnoses out there when our emotions break down as we see our special kids suffer.
We are able to recognize her limitations and offer help in those awkward situations where she greets her friend nose-to-nose and squawks in her face. (Pretending to be a chicken today?) Don't be quick to apologize or make excuses. Kids are weird sometimes. Even without labels!
I hope some of this helps. I know it can be frustrating to know that your child needs something and you don't know what it is, or how to give it to them. Just be supportive and know that you aren't the only with a cross-wired kid!
Unfortunately, we do not get to decide what is normal; that has already been established by mainstream society. But we can give her the tools to live in this world. I know others will say that all kids are different and there are no such things as Asperger's, ADHD and Autism. But I know from personal experience that some kids just aren't like their peers. No matter how you try to help your kid: giving him an outlet for his energy, or extra protein; he may not be able to change.
If he is 'wired differently' these behaviors are normal for him and he may not even know that he is doing it. Making a strange noise as a 'hello' to his friend was perfectly ok with him. He probably thought he was actually saying 'hello'. Telling you that he just can't stop bouncing may not mean that he needs more activities, just a place to bounce. And touching the walls is a way to connect with the physical world in a loud, changing environment. Maybe he needs to balance his head (mind) and his body by touching a solid object.
Raising an autistic child is challenging; especially with 2 younger children who are so different from her! My 5 yo nephew is also autistic, with some of the same symptoms as my daughter. Although his are more severe and are more difficult to manage.
There is a lot to say about the vast array of childhood behaviors. Each child is different. Personality is formed by genetics, upbringing, life experiences, etc. We just go with the flow and give them a supportive, loving environment.
Unschooling is perfect for my family (and my sister's family.) We can just be there for our kids and facilitate their learning and growing. But it is also a relief to know that there are actual, medical diagnoses out there when our emotions break down as we see our special kids suffer.
We are able to recognize her limitations and offer help in those awkward situations where she greets her friend nose-to-nose and squawks in her face. (Pretending to be a chicken today?) Don't be quick to apologize or make excuses. Kids are weird sometimes. Even without labels!
I hope some of this helps. I know it can be frustrating to know that your child needs something and you don't know what it is, or how to give it to them. Just be supportive and know that you aren't the only with a cross-wired kid!
Sandra Dodd
-=-She has undiagnosed Asperger's. We have chosen not to label her,
but instead we use the advice from several friends, websites and
books. This has helped us to understand that although her brain is
wired differently, she can learn to cope in the normal world. -=-
You labelled her here.
-=-...know that you aren't the only with a cross-wired kid! -=-
You did it again.
Once a child is labelled in the parents' heads as "cross-wired" or
"has undiagnosed Asperger's," the child is labelled. You may never be
able to really forget that, but unschooling will be helped if you can
practice not bringing it up, and eventually you might stop thinking it
so often.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
but instead we use the advice from several friends, websites and
books. This has helped us to understand that although her brain is
wired differently, she can learn to cope in the normal world. -=-
You labelled her here.
-=-...know that you aren't the only with a cross-wired kid! -=-
You did it again.
Once a child is labelled in the parents' heads as "cross-wired" or
"has undiagnosed Asperger's," the child is labelled. You may never be
able to really forget that, but unschooling will be helped if you can
practice not bringing it up, and eventually you might stop thinking it
so often.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vidyut Kale
"She has undiagnosed Asperger's"
This sounds scarier than a diagnosed Aspergers - my mom compared me with
normal and found enough things missing to be an illness? What is undiagnosed
Aspergers? There are loads of illnesses not diagnosed in her. I totally
don't get the part where you say you have chosen not to label her, because
its looking like you gave her a label around 'problems'. How would you feel
if someone observed you and said you had an undiagnosed schizophrenia (or
whatever) and started acting accordingly with you and describing you
according to that?
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This sounds scarier than a diagnosed Aspergers - my mom compared me with
normal and found enough things missing to be an illness? What is undiagnosed
Aspergers? There are loads of illnesses not diagnosed in her. I totally
don't get the part where you say you have chosen not to label her, because
its looking like you gave her a label around 'problems'. How would you feel
if someone observed you and said you had an undiagnosed schizophrenia (or
whatever) and started acting accordingly with you and describing you
according to that?
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
> "She has undiagnosed Asperger's"Maybe just say she has some Asperger's characteristics. Maybe just say
she has some quirky characteristics.
I know quite a few people like that - I think of them as "quirky."
Sometimes they don't function super well in general society, but they
are often very interesting people who can have great lives if they're
allowed and helped to live in ways that work for them.
Asperger himself said, "It seems that for success in science and art, a
dash of autism is essential."
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
Shannon Burton just posted something cool on her Facebook - related to
this discussion:
"......many of those with Asperger's syndrome have positive traits as
well, which has led some people to question whether it should be viewed
as a difference rather than a disorder." Those positive
characteristics include: integrity, intelligence, endurance, freedom
from prejudice. And they tend to be dependable, trustworthy, reliable,
loyal, and more. Read about them here:
<http://www.theautismnews.com/2010/06/25/positive-traits-of-aspergers-syndrome/>
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
this discussion:
"......many of those with Asperger's syndrome have positive traits as
well, which has led some people to question whether it should be viewed
as a difference rather than a disorder." Those positive
characteristics include: integrity, intelligence, endurance, freedom
from prejudice. And they tend to be dependable, trustworthy, reliable,
loyal, and more. Read about them here:
<http://www.theautismnews.com/2010/06/25/positive-traits-of-aspergers-syndrome/>
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Donndelinger
I'm not the original poster but wanted to share a different perspective
on this.
My son had some very challenging behavior when he was younger that
absolutely stressed me and my husband out. He required a lot of extra
attention and time and it was very confusing to us. If we had gone to a
allopathic doctor or schools, he would have been given some sort of
diagnosis but we weren't going to go down that allopathic path. We got
help from professionals that we chose and trusted: an incredibly skilled
homeopath and sensory integration therapists. Having an informal label
in our heads ("undiagnosed XYZ") helped us tremendously - it helped us
learn about different ways of being in children, (learning about sensory
integration was huge for us!), it helped us be more patient, look for
creative solutions to meet his needs, not compare him to other kids, and
even gave us a way to explain his needs to extended family in a way that
served him and us. I don't use the label anymore in my head but it was
a huge relief to explore the label as a way to better connect with and
see my child and understand him and expand our options.
on this.
My son had some very challenging behavior when he was younger that
absolutely stressed me and my husband out. He required a lot of extra
attention and time and it was very confusing to us. If we had gone to a
allopathic doctor or schools, he would have been given some sort of
diagnosis but we weren't going to go down that allopathic path. We got
help from professionals that we chose and trusted: an incredibly skilled
homeopath and sensory integration therapists. Having an informal label
in our heads ("undiagnosed XYZ") helped us tremendously - it helped us
learn about different ways of being in children, (learning about sensory
integration was huge for us!), it helped us be more patient, look for
creative solutions to meet his needs, not compare him to other kids, and
even gave us a way to explain his needs to extended family in a way that
served him and us. I don't use the label anymore in my head but it was
a huge relief to explore the label as a way to better connect with and
see my child and understand him and expand our options.
On 6/26/2010 1:46 AM, Vidyut Kale wrote:
>
> How would you feel
> if someone observed you and said you had an undiagnosed schizophrenia (or
> whatever) and started acting accordingly with you and describing you
> according to that?
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Claire Marketos
I like the idea of helping your child and being open to looking at different
ways of doing this without placing your child in a specific box.
As a teacher I never wanted to hear about the children I was teaching from
the previous class teacher before they arrived as I didn't want to let
labels affect my relationship with them. Children can respond differently to
different people in different environments.
Best wishes
Claire Marketos
Parenting/Educational Consultant
www.inspiredparenting.co.za 083 457 3667
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Deborah Donndelinger
Sent: 26 June 2010 01:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Random bursts of hyperactivity
I'm not the original poster but wanted to share a different perspective
on this.
My son had some very challenging behavior when he was younger that
absolutely stressed me and my husband out. He required a lot of extra
attention and time and it was very confusing to us. If we had gone to a
allopathic doctor or schools, he would have been given some sort of
diagnosis but we weren't going to go down that allopathic path. We got
help from professionals that we chose and trusted: an incredibly skilled
homeopath and sensory integration therapists. Having an informal label
in our heads ("undiagnosed XYZ") helped us tremendously - it helped us
learn about different ways of being in children, (learning about sensory
integration was huge for us!), it helped us be more patient, look for
creative solutions to meet his needs, not compare him to other kids, and
even gave us a way to explain his needs to extended family in a way that
served him and us. I don't use the label anymore in my head but it was
a huge relief to explore the label as a way to better connect with and
see my child and understand him and expand our options.
ways of doing this without placing your child in a specific box.
As a teacher I never wanted to hear about the children I was teaching from
the previous class teacher before they arrived as I didn't want to let
labels affect my relationship with them. Children can respond differently to
different people in different environments.
Best wishes
Claire Marketos
Parenting/Educational Consultant
www.inspiredparenting.co.za 083 457 3667
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Deborah Donndelinger
Sent: 26 June 2010 01:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Random bursts of hyperactivity
I'm not the original poster but wanted to share a different perspective
on this.
My son had some very challenging behavior when he was younger that
absolutely stressed me and my husband out. He required a lot of extra
attention and time and it was very confusing to us. If we had gone to a
allopathic doctor or schools, he would have been given some sort of
diagnosis but we weren't going to go down that allopathic path. We got
help from professionals that we chose and trusted: an incredibly skilled
homeopath and sensory integration therapists. Having an informal label
in our heads ("undiagnosed XYZ") helped us tremendously - it helped us
learn about different ways of being in children, (learning about sensory
integration was huge for us!), it helped us be more patient, look for
creative solutions to meet his needs, not compare him to other kids, and
even gave us a way to explain his needs to extended family in a way that
served him and us. I don't use the label anymore in my head but it was
a huge relief to explore the label as a way to better connect with and
see my child and understand him and expand our options.
On 6/26/2010 1:46 AM, Vidyut Kale wrote:
>
> How would you feel
> if someone observed you and said you had an undiagnosed schizophrenia (or
> whatever) and started acting accordingly with you and describing you
> according to that?
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vidyut Kale
"to explore the label as a way to better connect with and
see my child and understand him"
Why explore a label to connect with, see and understand your child?
"it helped us be more patient, look for
creative solutions to meet his needs, not compare him to other kids, and
even gave us a way to explain his needs to extended family in a way that
served him and us."
What was the problem with being patient with him, meeting his needs
creatively, not comparing him, or explaining his needs to extended family
before the label? Parents of perfectly normal kids need to do this too, no?
What did the label change?
I read a lot about ways I can assist N's physical development. That doesn't
mean that if learning about sensory integration helped him, he has a sensory
integration issue or an exercise to encourage head control in CP patients
helped him control his head too, so maybe he has CP, just like teaching a
pre-verbal child sign language to help him communicate doesn't make him
deaf.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
see my child and understand him"
Why explore a label to connect with, see and understand your child?
"it helped us be more patient, look for
creative solutions to meet his needs, not compare him to other kids, and
even gave us a way to explain his needs to extended family in a way that
served him and us."
What was the problem with being patient with him, meeting his needs
creatively, not comparing him, or explaining his needs to extended family
before the label? Parents of perfectly normal kids need to do this too, no?
What did the label change?
I read a lot about ways I can assist N's physical development. That doesn't
mean that if learning about sensory integration helped him, he has a sensory
integration issue or an exercise to encourage head control in CP patients
helped him control his head too, so maybe he has CP, just like teaching a
pre-verbal child sign language to help him communicate doesn't make him
deaf.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vidyut Kale
Correction:
I read a lot about ways I can assist N's physical development. That doesn't
mean that if learning about sensory integration helped him, he has a sensory
integration issue or an exercise to encourage head control in CP patients
helped him control his head too, so maybe he has CP, just like teaching a
pre-verbal child sign language to help him communicate doesn't make him deaf
dumb.
I read a lot about ways I can assist N's physical development. That doesn't
mean that if learning about sensory integration helped him, he has a sensory
integration issue or an exercise to encourage head control in CP patients
helped him control his head too, so maybe he has CP, just like teaching a
pre-verbal child sign language to help him communicate doesn't make him deaf
dumb.
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@...> wrote:
> "to explore the label as a way to better connect with and
> see my child and understand him"
>
> Why explore a label to connect with, see and understand your child?
>
> "it helped us be more patient, look for
> creative solutions to meet his needs, not compare him to other kids, and
> even gave us a way to explain his needs to extended family in a way that
> served him and us."
>
> What was the problem with being patient with him, meeting his needs
> creatively, not comparing him, or explaining his needs to extended family
> before the label? Parents of perfectly normal kids need to do this too, no?
> What did the label change?
>
> I read a lot about ways I can assist N's physical development. That doesn't
> mean that if learning about sensory integration helped him, he has a sensory
> integration issue or an exercise to encourage head control in CP patients
> helped him control his head too, so maybe he has CP, just like teaching a
> pre-verbal child sign language to help him communicate doesn't make him
> deaf.
>
> Vidyut
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I like the idea of helping your child and being open to looking at
different
ways of doing this without placing your child in a specific box.-=-
Me too.
The advantage to a parent of suggesting to *their* parents
(grandparents) that "something is wrong" with a child is that the
grandparents might back off or be more sympathetic. The disadvantage,
though, is the grandparents might become more agitated, thinking
unschooling will not "fix" the problem. The problem in that case
would be that the parents described a problem.
But the advantage to ANY unschooling parent of assuming that any one
child will be unique and changing is that the parent can open the
world in such a way that each child can taste, touch, hear, see and
smell as he or she feels comfortable, with curiosities addressed, with
desires to climb or sit or run accommodated.
Unschooling, done mindfully and fully, works the very same for a child
who might have been "identified gifted" as for a child who might have
been slammed or dribbled into the "slow class." Because if the parent
is able to calmly accept that quick learning one day doesn't mean
genius-at-30, and that a slow, confused beginning does NOT mean slow
at 30, then the parent is learning acceptance and seeing.
Seeing an individual child is not much helped by "seeing" statistics
and curves and studies and labels. Maybe a glance out of the corner
of the eye, but if those things are set up between the parent and
child, the child is not with the parent. The parent is not with the
child purely and directly and wholly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
different
ways of doing this without placing your child in a specific box.-=-
Me too.
The advantage to a parent of suggesting to *their* parents
(grandparents) that "something is wrong" with a child is that the
grandparents might back off or be more sympathetic. The disadvantage,
though, is the grandparents might become more agitated, thinking
unschooling will not "fix" the problem. The problem in that case
would be that the parents described a problem.
But the advantage to ANY unschooling parent of assuming that any one
child will be unique and changing is that the parent can open the
world in such a way that each child can taste, touch, hear, see and
smell as he or she feels comfortable, with curiosities addressed, with
desires to climb or sit or run accommodated.
Unschooling, done mindfully and fully, works the very same for a child
who might have been "identified gifted" as for a child who might have
been slammed or dribbled into the "slow class." Because if the parent
is able to calmly accept that quick learning one day doesn't mean
genius-at-30, and that a slow, confused beginning does NOT mean slow
at 30, then the parent is learning acceptance and seeing.
Seeing an individual child is not much helped by "seeing" statistics
and curves and studies and labels. Maybe a glance out of the corner
of the eye, but if those things are set up between the parent and
child, the child is not with the parent. The parent is not with the
child purely and directly and wholly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Donndelinger
Here's why for us: For us in our family, exploring the idea that my
son had a specific diagnosis opened the door for us to learn about
things we wouldn't have learned and that helped us be more patient with
him. For example, understanding that he likes heavy physical contact and
lots of wrestling and that there is a sensory reason for this helped ME
AND MY DH give this to him. Other parents might have been able to see
their child clearly and give this to their child without the knowledge
but FOR ME AND MY DH, it helped. That's all I'm saying. Different
paths leading to the same result of being able to see our children
clearly in the moment.
son had a specific diagnosis opened the door for us to learn about
things we wouldn't have learned and that helped us be more patient with
him. For example, understanding that he likes heavy physical contact and
lots of wrestling and that there is a sensory reason for this helped ME
AND MY DH give this to him. Other parents might have been able to see
their child clearly and give this to their child without the knowledge
but FOR ME AND MY DH, it helped. That's all I'm saying. Different
paths leading to the same result of being able to see our children
clearly in the moment.
On 6/26/2010 9:03 AM, Vidyut Kale wrote:
>
> >
> > Why explore a label to connect with, see and understand your child?
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 26, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Vidyut Kale wrote:
but, out in mainstream American society, there's a *pervasive* belief
that kids need their imperfection trained out of them. It's believed
it's up to the parent to squash behavior that looks like it's
deviating from the pathway to respectable adult behavior. It's
strongly believed that a hyper child, for instance, needs to be
controlled because he's obviously not learning how to do it on his
own. And, the doomsayers are certain, if he's allowed to get away with
that behavior too long, it will be even harder if not impossible to
change him.
The disrespect and distrust of children is rampant in American
society. So, outside of groups that promote mindful parenting,
trusting that a child doesn't need trained out of his behavior to get
him to act normal is not an easy mindset to embrace. It's rare to find
support for it.
If looking into a label (and then dropping it) helps a parent trust
that their child needs support to deal with the world rather than
pressure to change, that could be a very good thing for the child.
Here, since this list is radical unschooling, there's loads of support
for children's differences and help to support who they are.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Why explore a label to connect with, see and understand your child?I wouldn't advocate it as a mindful path to connecting with a child,
but, out in mainstream American society, there's a *pervasive* belief
that kids need their imperfection trained out of them. It's believed
it's up to the parent to squash behavior that looks like it's
deviating from the pathway to respectable adult behavior. It's
strongly believed that a hyper child, for instance, needs to be
controlled because he's obviously not learning how to do it on his
own. And, the doomsayers are certain, if he's allowed to get away with
that behavior too long, it will be even harder if not impossible to
change him.
The disrespect and distrust of children is rampant in American
society. So, outside of groups that promote mindful parenting,
trusting that a child doesn't need trained out of his behavior to get
him to act normal is not an easy mindset to embrace. It's rare to find
support for it.
If looking into a label (and then dropping it) helps a parent trust
that their child needs support to deal with the world rather than
pressure to change, that could be a very good thing for the child.
Here, since this list is radical unschooling, there's loads of support
for children's differences and help to support who they are.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/26/2010 6:50 AM, Deborah Donndelinger wrote:
example. I read about ADHD. I read about dyslexia and other learning
disabilities. I read about speech problems. I read about gifted
education. I read about bipolar children. I read about depression. I
never needed to diagnose my child, secretly or otherwise, to allow me to
recognize that I might (or might not) find some useful information in
various places.
How does labeling your child open the door to exploring information?
When you think of your child as him or herself, rather than as a
diagnosis or label, you can explore everything and glean ideas and try
out what seems potentially useful with your real child and ignore the rest.
Diagnoses or labels can get in the way. Parents will nearly always
follow the standard procedures recommended by professionals for that
diagnosis. A good example of that is that kids with ADD are often
assumed to need more structure and less stimulation. So they are put
into cubicles - blocked off from visual stimulation of seeing other kids
or anything else. They are given one math problem at a time, instead of
a sheet full of them. Parents are told to make their rooms plain -
remove potential distractions. That is standard procedure. How many
parents of so-called ADD kids have been told they need a very rigid
schedule? Here is an example of advice: "Establish some kind of schedule
on weekends. Try not to deviate from the routines you establish. Begin
with small blocks of time, such as:
8:30 Breakfast, 9:00 Chores in room; 10:30 Go to park, 12:00 lunch: 1:00
Library, 3:30 Free time, 5:00 Help with dinner preparation, 6:00 Dinner,
7:00 Bath and free time, 8:30 Bedtime.
The article goes on and on about what ADD children need: predictability,
consistency, and scheduling. At the end it says, "And remember, they
won't always agree with your actions, but at least they will know what
your actions will be."
Giving your child a label does open a door - to being told what your
child needs by people who don't know your child and make assumptions
based on that label.
-pam
> Here's why for us: For us in our family, exploring the idea that myI explored all KINDS of things - I read a whole lot about Aspergers, for
> son had a specific diagnosis opened the door for us to learn about
> things we wouldn't have learned and that helped us be more patient with
> him.
example. I read about ADHD. I read about dyslexia and other learning
disabilities. I read about speech problems. I read about gifted
education. I read about bipolar children. I read about depression. I
never needed to diagnose my child, secretly or otherwise, to allow me to
recognize that I might (or might not) find some useful information in
various places.
How does labeling your child open the door to exploring information?
When you think of your child as him or herself, rather than as a
diagnosis or label, you can explore everything and glean ideas and try
out what seems potentially useful with your real child and ignore the rest.
Diagnoses or labels can get in the way. Parents will nearly always
follow the standard procedures recommended by professionals for that
diagnosis. A good example of that is that kids with ADD are often
assumed to need more structure and less stimulation. So they are put
into cubicles - blocked off from visual stimulation of seeing other kids
or anything else. They are given one math problem at a time, instead of
a sheet full of them. Parents are told to make their rooms plain -
remove potential distractions. That is standard procedure. How many
parents of so-called ADD kids have been told they need a very rigid
schedule? Here is an example of advice: "Establish some kind of schedule
on weekends. Try not to deviate from the routines you establish. Begin
with small blocks of time, such as:
8:30 Breakfast, 9:00 Chores in room; 10:30 Go to park, 12:00 lunch: 1:00
Library, 3:30 Free time, 5:00 Help with dinner preparation, 6:00 Dinner,
7:00 Bath and free time, 8:30 Bedtime.
The article goes on and on about what ADD children need: predictability,
consistency, and scheduling. At the end it says, "And remember, they
won't always agree with your actions, but at least they will know what
your actions will be."
Giving your child a label does open a door - to being told what your
child needs by people who don't know your child and make assumptions
based on that label.
-pam
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/26/2010 6:50 AM, Deborah Donndelinger wrote:
do more of it, assuming there is a reason.
-pam
> For example, understanding that he likes heavy physical contact andStandard unschooling advice: pay attention to what your child likes and
> lots of wrestling and that there is a sensory reason for this helped ME
> AND MY DH give this to him.
do more of it, assuming there is a reason.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-Diagnoses or labels can get in the way.-=-
I think they absolutely cannot fail to get in the way.
-=- Parents will nearly always follow the standard procedures
recommended by professionals for that
diagnosis. -=-
Or they'll worry that they didn't.
-=-> For example, understanding that he likes heavy physical contact and
and
do more of it, assuming there is a reason.-=-
Yes. Anyone here reading should find ways to help themselves and
their spouses or partners understand that children need what they
need. If they seem tired or listless, let them sit or lie down. If
they seem antsy and energetic, let them DO things. If they seem
hungry, feed them. The only label that needs is "human" or "alive,"
or "child." "Person." The reason to do it is "compassion."
"Consideration," "love," "responsibility," "mindfulness."
About labels, and some of those other things:
http://sandradodd.com/words/without
http://sandradodd.com/mindfulparenting
http://sandradodd.com/pam/howto
http://sandradodd.com/intelligences
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think they absolutely cannot fail to get in the way.
-=- Parents will nearly always follow the standard procedures
recommended by professionals for that
diagnosis. -=-
Or they'll worry that they didn't.
-=-> For example, understanding that he likes heavy physical contact and
> lots of wrestling and that there is a sensory reason for thishelped ME
> AND MY DH give this to him.-=-Standard unschooling advice: pay attention to what your child likes
and
do more of it, assuming there is a reason.-=-
Yes. Anyone here reading should find ways to help themselves and
their spouses or partners understand that children need what they
need. If they seem tired or listless, let them sit or lie down. If
they seem antsy and energetic, let them DO things. If they seem
hungry, feed them. The only label that needs is "human" or "alive,"
or "child." "Person." The reason to do it is "compassion."
"Consideration," "love," "responsibility," "mindfulness."
About labels, and some of those other things:
http://sandradodd.com/words/without
http://sandradodd.com/mindfulparenting
http://sandradodd.com/pam/howto
http://sandradodd.com/intelligences
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***What was the problem with being patient with him, meeting his needs
creatively, not comparing him, or explaining his needs to extended family
before the label? Parents of perfectly normal kids need to do this too, no?
What did the label change?***
Yes, that's typically what people mean when they say unschooling works for all kids. It doesn't mean that kids aren't different or that some kids aren't very different, but that all parents will need to do those things, meet needs creatively, explain needs to extended family as needed, etc. The details will look different because the needs are different and the child is different.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
creatively, not comparing him, or explaining his needs to extended family
before the label? Parents of perfectly normal kids need to do this too, no?
What did the label change?***
Yes, that's typically what people mean when they say unschooling works for all kids. It doesn't mean that kids aren't different or that some kids aren't very different, but that all parents will need to do those things, meet needs creatively, explain needs to extended family as needed, etc. The details will look different because the needs are different and the child is different.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***For us in our family, exploring the idea that my
son had a specific diagnosis opened the door for us to learn about
things we wouldn't have learned and that helped us be more patient with
him. ***
Chamille would probably have been labeled dyslexic if she had been in school. That label would not have helped her learn how to read without pressure, at her own pace, calmly and peacefully. She learned how to read when she was 11. Armed with that knowledge, I chose NOT to read up more than a brief synopsis of dyslexia, enough to know that she probably was dealing with that. Out of the school context, it didn't matter. She was free to read and explore the written word on her own terms.
***For example, understanding that he likes heavy physical contact and
lots of wrestling and that there is a sensory reason for this helped ME
AND MY DH give this to him.***
I know many people have done things similarly. For those that are there right now, considering it, maybe you can stop before you start. Understanding child development is good. Understanding child development within pedagogy, isn't nearly as helpful. There are very few books out there, if any, that address these issues without also addressing school. Know that all kids are different and some are so different from our own understanding that we, as parents, have a hard time relating or understanding. It doesn't change the child.
Too much worry and information and reading about child hood behavioral disorders can taint a parent's view of their child forever. It seems better for unschooling, to see and recognize that your child likes physical contact and provide it. It IS sensory input regardless of whether or not the child has sensory integration issues. Patience and growth and change and finding ways for the senses to integrate needs a parent directly involved in being there and anticipating those needs because they know their child, NOT because they know their child's label.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
son had a specific diagnosis opened the door for us to learn about
things we wouldn't have learned and that helped us be more patient with
him. ***
Chamille would probably have been labeled dyslexic if she had been in school. That label would not have helped her learn how to read without pressure, at her own pace, calmly and peacefully. She learned how to read when she was 11. Armed with that knowledge, I chose NOT to read up more than a brief synopsis of dyslexia, enough to know that she probably was dealing with that. Out of the school context, it didn't matter. She was free to read and explore the written word on her own terms.
***For example, understanding that he likes heavy physical contact and
lots of wrestling and that there is a sensory reason for this helped ME
AND MY DH give this to him.***
I know many people have done things similarly. For those that are there right now, considering it, maybe you can stop before you start. Understanding child development is good. Understanding child development within pedagogy, isn't nearly as helpful. There are very few books out there, if any, that address these issues without also addressing school. Know that all kids are different and some are so different from our own understanding that we, as parents, have a hard time relating or understanding. It doesn't change the child.
Too much worry and information and reading about child hood behavioral disorders can taint a parent's view of their child forever. It seems better for unschooling, to see and recognize that your child likes physical contact and provide it. It IS sensory input regardless of whether or not the child has sensory integration issues. Patience and growth and change and finding ways for the senses to integrate needs a parent directly involved in being there and anticipating those needs because they know their child, NOT because they know their child's label.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Yes Pam too true and also opening your child to unnecessary medication. Connecting with a child as a unique individual and meeting their specific needs would reduce the number of unnecessary diagnosis children are subjected to in adult's quest to make them fit into systems.
Claire
Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device
-----Original Message-----
From: Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:04:09
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Random bursts of hyperactivity
Claire
Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless device
-----Original Message-----
From: Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:04:09
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Random bursts of hyperactivity
On 6/26/2010 6:50 AM, Deborah Donndelinger wrote:
> Here's why for us: For us in our family, exploring the idea that my
> son had a specific diagnosis opened the door for us to learn about
> things we wouldn't have learned and that helped us be more patient with
> him.
I explored all KINDS of things - I read a whole lot about Aspergers, for
example. I read about ADHD. I read about dyslexia and other learning
disabilities. I read about speech problems. I read about gifted
education. I read about bipolar children. I read about depression. I
never needed to diagnose my child, secretly or otherwise, to allow me to
recognize that I might (or might not) find some useful information in
various places.
How does labeling your child open the door to exploring information?
When you think of your child as him or herself, rather than as a
diagnosis or label, you can explore everything and glean ideas and try
out what seems potentially useful with your real child and ignore the rest.
Diagnoses or labels can get in the way. Parents will nearly always
follow the standard procedures recommended by professionals for that
diagnosis. A good example of that is that kids with ADD are often
assumed to need more structure and less stimulation. So they are put
into cubicles - blocked off from visual stimulation of seeing other kids
or anything else. They are given one math problem at a time, instead of
a sheet full of them. Parents are told to make their rooms plain -
remove potential distractions. That is standard procedure. How many
parents of so-called ADD kids have been told they need a very rigid
schedule? Here is an example of advice: "Establish some kind of schedule
on weekends. Try not to deviate from the routines you establish. Begin
with small blocks of time, such as:
8:30 Breakfast, 9:00 Chores in room; 10:30 Go to park, 12:00 lunch: 1:00
Library, 3:30 Free time, 5:00 Help with dinner preparation, 6:00 Dinner,
7:00 Bath and free time, 8:30 Bedtime.
The article goes on and on about what ADD children need: predictability,
consistency, and scheduling. At the end it says, "And remember, they
won't always agree with your actions, but at least they will know what
your actions will be."
Giving your child a label does open a door - to being told what your
child needs by people who don't know your child and make assumptions
based on that label.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John and Amanda Slater
Eli might be diagnosed with something if we pressed for it. We have not. What I have done is read autobiographies by people that have been diagnosed in those areas. I find that they help me find the thought processes behind behaviors I have already observed and some strategies that worked for some people.
For example, I found some people diagnosed with autism/aspergers have a hard time blocking out stimuli. They feel every breeze, see every leaf move and cannot block the sound of the wind in the trees. This helped me understand why windy days at the park seemed to be so hard for Eli. I was having trouble finding the pattern of which park days he enjoyed and which seemed too much. After reading one person's explanation I was able to see how much windy days bothered him. I might have found it out on my own, but during a several hour park day, there were too many variables to figure out the pattern. Now I know to pay attention to the wind conditions when choosing which weeks to go and which to skip.
Autobiographies seem to focus more on feelings and less on "fixing." Eli is not very verbal about what is going on inside him, so I have to guess. Reading about what helped and did not for adults looking back at their lives gave me some places to start. They never seem to think that their differences were much of a problem, it was only other people's reactions that caused problems.
And autobiographies are one of my favorite genres anyway!
Amanda
Eli 9, Samuel 7
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For example, I found some people diagnosed with autism/aspergers have a hard time blocking out stimuli. They feel every breeze, see every leaf move and cannot block the sound of the wind in the trees. This helped me understand why windy days at the park seemed to be so hard for Eli. I was having trouble finding the pattern of which park days he enjoyed and which seemed too much. After reading one person's explanation I was able to see how much windy days bothered him. I might have found it out on my own, but during a several hour park day, there were too many variables to figure out the pattern. Now I know to pay attention to the wind conditions when choosing which weeks to go and which to skip.
Autobiographies seem to focus more on feelings and less on "fixing." Eli is not very verbal about what is going on inside him, so I have to guess. Reading about what helped and did not for adults looking back at their lives gave me some places to start. They never seem to think that their differences were much of a problem, it was only other people's reactions that caused problems.
And autobiographies are one of my favorite genres anyway!
Amanda
Eli 9, Samuel 7
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/26/2010 11:34 AM, John and Amanda Slater wrote:
-pam
> Autobiographies seem to focus more on feelings and less on "fixing."This is a really good idea. Amanda, do you have any recommended books?
> Eli is not very verbal about what is going on inside him, so I have to
> guess. Reading about what helped and did not for adults looking back
> at their lives gave me some places to start. They never seem to think
> that their differences were much of a problem, it was only other
> people's reactions that caused problems.
>
> And autobiographies are one of my favorite genres anyway!
-pam
k
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
***For example, understanding that he likes heavy physical contact and
lots of wrestling and that there is a sensory reason for this helped ME
AND MY DH give this to him.***
>>>Patience and growth and change and finding ways for the senses to integrate needs a parent directly involved in being there and anticipating those needs because they know their child, NOT because they know their child's label.<<<
I can remember when I was a child I often felt the need for lots and
lots of running, like for an hour or more, when I was about 9 or 10.
Karl is about to turn 7 in July. He has been hitting things a lot. So
I figure he needs lots and lots of it.
I don't need any label on him to provide him with space and things to
safely hit. No matter what people do (or don't do) to attach their
children to labels in order to feel better about making provisions to
satisfying a need, there the need is waiting (or not: acting out
perhaps) to be provided a place for.
It seems to me that the use of labels is to provide adults with
handles on that fabled normalcy, which in many instances may be a
desire to fit in. I don't look down on that but I would say that kids
and the maturing process for many adults doesn't necessarily fit in
with fitting in.
~Katherine
plaidpanties666
"shirlinda_momof3" <savahl@...> wrote:
Yes to the first part, no to the second. People with autism and aspergers don't think animal noises and sound effects are language, although some people do find it appealing to use those sounds to communicate and some of those people may be diagnosed with on thing or another. Some people are just quirky, too. Its okay to be quirky!
---Meredith
>Making a strange noise as a 'hello' to his friend was perfectly ok with him. He probably thought he was actually saying 'hello'.****************
Yes to the first part, no to the second. People with autism and aspergers don't think animal noises and sound effects are language, although some people do find it appealing to use those sounds to communicate and some of those people may be diagnosed with on thing or another. Some people are just quirky, too. Its okay to be quirky!
---Meredith
Sandra Dodd
-=-. Connecting with a child as a unique individual and meeting their
specific needs would reduce the number of unnecessary diagnosis
children are subjected to in adult's quest to make them fit into
systems.-=-
"Unnecessary"!? I think not.
If the purpose of the diagnoses is to justify educations and paychecks
for teachers, special ed teachers, school counsellors, contractors who
get more money when schools need more classrooms, doctors,
diagnosticians, therapists, pharmacists and the gigantic group of
manufacturers and research labs and lawyers and stockholders behind
all of that....
When a child is labelled it is very rarely for the good of the child.
It is to maintain payments on cars and houses and boats. OTHER
people's cars, houses and boats. New carpet for the offices of
superintendents, pharmacy corporation secretaries, nice furniture for
waiting rooms...
This has been a very rare politicalish rant by me. I don't like to go
there. But people here seem to be on the edge of confusing diagnosing
children with serving , supporting or helping children.
Unschooling doesn't need it.
Unschooling can be harmed by it.
Therefor, it's not going to help this list to help people unschool for
people to recommend or justify labelling or "not-diagnosed and not-
labelled but he would be..." either.
Sandra
specific needs would reduce the number of unnecessary diagnosis
children are subjected to in adult's quest to make them fit into
systems.-=-
"Unnecessary"!? I think not.
If the purpose of the diagnoses is to justify educations and paychecks
for teachers, special ed teachers, school counsellors, contractors who
get more money when schools need more classrooms, doctors,
diagnosticians, therapists, pharmacists and the gigantic group of
manufacturers and research labs and lawyers and stockholders behind
all of that....
When a child is labelled it is very rarely for the good of the child.
It is to maintain payments on cars and houses and boats. OTHER
people's cars, houses and boats. New carpet for the offices of
superintendents, pharmacy corporation secretaries, nice furniture for
waiting rooms...
This has been a very rare politicalish rant by me. I don't like to go
there. But people here seem to be on the edge of confusing diagnosing
children with serving , supporting or helping children.
Unschooling doesn't need it.
Unschooling can be harmed by it.
Therefor, it's not going to help this list to help people unschool for
people to recommend or justify labelling or "not-diagnosed and not-
labelled but he would be..." either.
Sandra