late diapering
Susan Fuerst
Hi all,
I am facing a strange (to me) situation. I have a 5.5 yo dd who wants to wear diapers. She appears completely traumatized when she doesn't have one (like when we run out). I have asked that she get them off as soon as she 'goes' in them so that she can keep herself clean. I am concerned that she may increase her risk for UTI (urinary tract infection) by wearing them longer. She refuses to go anywhere near a toilet for elimination, so I have said that she can use a diaper if she wants, but that she doesn't need to wear them all day long. I thought ti would be simpler in summer because she will wear a swimsuit for water activities and she doesn't' mind. However, when remove her diaper in the morning, I have been saying she needs to leave it off for a while then if she still wants one at lunchtime, she can choose to. However, she hasn't been able tell me when she goes (meaning she chooses not to, she does seem to know). Of course, this sets her up to try to sneak and hide it from me, and that isn't good.
At the same time, she has defied the old wives tale that you won't see a child go off to kindergarten wearing diapers (well, maybe not since she won't be going to kindergartens, but age-wise she has passed that limit).
While I don't want to battle over this, I DO want her to stop wearing diapers all day long; I don't think it's healthy. I am concerned, too, that she will be out of touch with her bodies needs wrt to elimination.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Susan
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I am facing a strange (to me) situation. I have a 5.5 yo dd who wants to wear diapers. She appears completely traumatized when she doesn't have one (like when we run out). I have asked that she get them off as soon as she 'goes' in them so that she can keep herself clean. I am concerned that she may increase her risk for UTI (urinary tract infection) by wearing them longer. She refuses to go anywhere near a toilet for elimination, so I have said that she can use a diaper if she wants, but that she doesn't need to wear them all day long. I thought ti would be simpler in summer because she will wear a swimsuit for water activities and she doesn't' mind. However, when remove her diaper in the morning, I have been saying she needs to leave it off for a while then if she still wants one at lunchtime, she can choose to. However, she hasn't been able tell me when she goes (meaning she chooses not to, she does seem to know). Of course, this sets her up to try to sneak and hide it from me, and that isn't good.
At the same time, she has defied the old wives tale that you won't see a child go off to kindergarten wearing diapers (well, maybe not since she won't be going to kindergartens, but age-wise she has passed that limit).
While I don't want to battle over this, I DO want her to stop wearing diapers all day long; I don't think it's healthy. I am concerned, too, that she will be out of touch with her bodies needs wrt to elimination.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Susan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Why would diaper wearing increase the risk of UTI's? Really? Do the incontinent elderly have a greater risk of UTI's? Why are you worried about it?
I would guess, from a distance of some very many feet, that you are a little embarrassed to have a 5 year old in diapers. Breathe, and do what else you need to in order to understand that this is about her needs and not about yours. Simon was 4 when he quit wearing diapers, he probably would have worn them for longer, but we had bought all the diapers that fit him in all the shops within moped range of us in Kyoto. So, he went from diapers to no diapers in a day. I think he peed himself once during the day and a couple of times at night. He just preferred diapers.
Both Simon and Linnaea hated having their hair brushed. They went out with tangled, knotted, long, fine hair regularly. I would feel smaller when I thought others were criticizing my parenting for their lack of hair care. But they felt good and happy and didn't care. And the more that I thought about their good and happy and not caring, the less I thought about others' censure of my parenting.
If your daughter prefers diapers at 5, I imagine that at 15 she will feel more intact because you respected that, even while she isn't any longer wearing diapers.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Susan Fuerst <fuerst@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 21 June, 2010 17:43:14
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] late diapering
Hi all,
I am facing a strange (to me) situation. I have a 5.5 yo dd who wants to wear diapers. She appears completely traumatized when she doesn't have one (like when we run out). I have asked that she get them off as soon as she 'goes' in them so that she can keep herself clean. I am concerned that she may increase her risk for UTI (urinary tract infection) by wearing them longer. She refuses to go anywhere near a toilet for elimination, so I have said that she can use a diaper if she wants, but that she doesn't need to wear them all day long. I thought ti would be simpler in summer because she will wear a swimsuit for water activities and she doesn't' mind. However, when remove her diaper in the morning, I have been saying she needs to leave it off for a while then if she still wants one at lunchtime, she can choose to. However, she hasn't been able tell me when she goes (meaning she chooses not to, she does seem to know). Of course, this sets her up
to try to sneak and hide it from me, and that isn't good.
At the same time, she has defied the old wives tale that you won't see a child go off to kindergarten wearing diapers (well, maybe not since she won't be going to kindergartens, but age-wise she has passed that limit).
While I don't want to battle over this, I DO want her to stop wearing diapers all day long; I don't think it's healthy. I am concerned, too, that she will be out of touch with her bodies needs wrt to elimination.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Susan
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------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would guess, from a distance of some very many feet, that you are a little embarrassed to have a 5 year old in diapers. Breathe, and do what else you need to in order to understand that this is about her needs and not about yours. Simon was 4 when he quit wearing diapers, he probably would have worn them for longer, but we had bought all the diapers that fit him in all the shops within moped range of us in Kyoto. So, he went from diapers to no diapers in a day. I think he peed himself once during the day and a couple of times at night. He just preferred diapers.
Both Simon and Linnaea hated having their hair brushed. They went out with tangled, knotted, long, fine hair regularly. I would feel smaller when I thought others were criticizing my parenting for their lack of hair care. But they felt good and happy and didn't care. And the more that I thought about their good and happy and not caring, the less I thought about others' censure of my parenting.
If your daughter prefers diapers at 5, I imagine that at 15 she will feel more intact because you respected that, even while she isn't any longer wearing diapers.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Susan Fuerst <fuerst@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 21 June, 2010 17:43:14
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] late diapering
Hi all,
I am facing a strange (to me) situation. I have a 5.5 yo dd who wants to wear diapers. She appears completely traumatized when she doesn't have one (like when we run out). I have asked that she get them off as soon as she 'goes' in them so that she can keep herself clean. I am concerned that she may increase her risk for UTI (urinary tract infection) by wearing them longer. She refuses to go anywhere near a toilet for elimination, so I have said that she can use a diaper if she wants, but that she doesn't need to wear them all day long. I thought ti would be simpler in summer because she will wear a swimsuit for water activities and she doesn't' mind. However, when remove her diaper in the morning, I have been saying she needs to leave it off for a while then if she still wants one at lunchtime, she can choose to. However, she hasn't been able tell me when she goes (meaning she chooses not to, she does seem to know). Of course, this sets her up
to try to sneak and hide it from me, and that isn't good.
At the same time, she has defied the old wives tale that you won't see a child go off to kindergarten wearing diapers (well, maybe not since she won't be going to kindergartens, but age-wise she has passed that limit).
While I don't want to battle over this, I DO want her to stop wearing diapers all day long; I don't think it's healthy. I am concerned, too, that she will be out of touch with her bodies needs wrt to elimination.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Susan
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------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lylaw
I completely agree with schuyler and think this goes hand in hand with the thread on rock climbing and trust, and inner trust, etc. that's been discussed here recently. if you haven't read that thread (the boy scouts thread), I'd really urge you to do so! I have also never heard anyone say "they won't go off to kindergarten wearing diapers" - it's usually college - and it's a joke!
warmly, Lyla
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warmly, Lyla
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Robin Bentley
>You've already been battling over this, to the point that your little
> While I don't want to battle over this, I DO want her to stop
> wearing diapers all day long; I don't think it's healthy. I am
> concerned, too, that she will be out of touch with her bodies needs
> wrt to elimination.
daughter is sneaking and hiding from you. *That's* the unhealthy part.
And as far as her being out of touch with her needs, she's plenty in
touch with them. She's not ready to stop wearing diapers and if you
continue to make it an issue, you can end up forcing her to *not*
listen to her body's needs.
Support her where she is, not where you think she ought to be. It will
definitely improve your relationship.
Robin B.
Bernadette Lynn
On 21 June 2010 17:43, Susan Fuerst <fuerst@...> wrote:
I'm not sure why she should be out of touch with her body since you say she
does know when she needs to go - if five and a half years haven't put her
'out of touch' why would a further six or twelve or eighteen months?
Maybe you need to stop thinking of diapers as having an age related limit
and start thinking of them as just an option to help your daughter feel more
secure or comfortable. Possibly if you take away the pressure she'll find it
easier to find a time that's right for her to come out of them.
You could maybe also look into cloth diapers, maybe you'd feel better about
it if she were wearing cloth rather than paper - as long as she felt good
about the idea, of course.
My daughter went back into nappies at five when she has a bowel problem; the
worst thing about it was finding any big enough! It's good that you cann get
them in her size, of course it means that there are lots of children her age
wearing them or the manufacturers wouldn't bother. She's not the only one.
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
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> Hi all,*****
>
> I am facing a strange (to me) situation. I have a 5.5 yo dd who wants to
> wear diapers. She appears completely traumatized when she doesn't have one
> (like when we run out).
>
> While I don't want to battle over this, I DO want her to stop wearing--------------------
> diapers all day long; I don't think it's healthy. I am concerned, too,
> that she will be out of touch with her bodies needs wrt to elimination.
>
I'm not sure why she should be out of touch with her body since you say she
does know when she needs to go - if five and a half years haven't put her
'out of touch' why would a further six or twelve or eighteen months?
Maybe you need to stop thinking of diapers as having an age related limit
and start thinking of them as just an option to help your daughter feel more
secure or comfortable. Possibly if you take away the pressure she'll find it
easier to find a time that's right for her to come out of them.
You could maybe also look into cloth diapers, maybe you'd feel better about
it if she were wearing cloth rather than paper - as long as she felt good
about the idea, of course.
My daughter went back into nappies at five when she has a bowel problem; the
worst thing about it was finding any big enough! It's good that you cann get
them in her size, of course it means that there are lots of children her age
wearing them or the manufacturers wouldn't bother. She's not the only one.
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/21/2010 9:43 AM, Susan Fuerst wrote:
diapers, is the way I've heard it <G>.
If it makes you feel any better, lots of kids wet their pants in
kindergarten and lots wear pull-ups, too.
Why not just use pull-ups and treat them exactly like you'd treat
underwear - change when wet or dirty, just like you would wet or dirty
panties.
My oldest daughter, Roya, wore pull-ups until she was 7 or so.
-pam
> At the same time, she has defied the old wives tale that you won't seeYeah - I think you heard it wrong. She won't go off to college wearing
> a child go off to kindergarten wearing diapers (well, maybe not since
> she won't be going to kindergartens, but age-wise she has passed that
> limit).
diapers, is the way I've heard it <G>.
If it makes you feel any better, lots of kids wet their pants in
kindergarten and lots wear pull-ups, too.
Why not just use pull-ups and treat them exactly like you'd treat
underwear - change when wet or dirty, just like you would wet or dirty
panties.
My oldest daughter, Roya, wore pull-ups until she was 7 or so.
-pam
Robin Bentley
> Yeah - I think you heard it wrong. She won't go off to college wearingCollege-age is way better to aim for <g>
> diapers, is the way I've heard it <G>.
> Why not just use pull-ups and treat them exactly like you'd treatI know at least two kids who wore pull-ups until the age of 8.
> underwear - change when wet or dirty, just like you would wet or dirty
> panties.
>
> My oldest daughter, Roya, wore pull-ups until she was 7 or so.
>
Robin b.
Su Penn
On Jun 21, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Susan Fuerst wrote:
My oldest son does a lot of things "later" than most kids do. He's 9 now, and what I've seen over and over (often after I've been fretting over something for quite awhile) is that he does them when he's ready, and once he does, you can't tell the difference between him and the kids who did it earlier. This has applied to walking, putting his own clothes on, using the toilet independently, giving up thumb-sucking...a whole long list.
Eric is often physically ready or able to do something long before he's psychologically or emotionally ready to do it. It can be frustrating as a parent ("he could dress himself if he just _would_!") and has gotten him some criticism (my mother called him "lazy" when he didn't walk until 17 months). But this seems to be part of his process, and although I have not been a perfect parent in this regard, it is always best to trust him and his timetable, rather than push and create conflict and resentment.
You say you don't want to battle but want her to stop wearing diapers all the time. These could very well be incompatible goals, and the first one may be the only one you have any control over--you can choose not to battle over it. When she asks for a diaper, say "sure" and cheerfully help her with it. You can choose to remove diapers as a focus of conflict for you and her, and by doing that, remove any motivation she might have to control the situation by insisting on diapers or holding onto them longer than she might otherwise.
If you're concerned about diapers interfering with her understanding what's going on with her body, you might consider two possibilities: one is that she is perfectly aware but not ready to give up diapers for other reasons; the other is that developmentally that piece has not fallen into place for her yet. She's showing very plainly that she is not yet ready to give up diapers; you don't necessarily have to understand the reasons for that to respect it, and to trust that she will indeed give up diapers in her own good time.
(I sound mellower about this kind of stuff in theory than I have often been in practice. But that just makes me more of an authority when I say, "the not-mellow option rarely works out as well as the mellow option.")
Su, mom to Eric, 9; Carl, 6; Yehva, 2.5
tapeflags.blogspot.com
> While I don't want to battle over this, I DO want her to stop wearing diapers all day long; I don't think it's healthy. I am concerned, too, that she will be out of touch with her bodies needs wrt to elimination.I don't see any reason to think it's unhealthy or will cause infections, so I wouldn't worry about that.
My oldest son does a lot of things "later" than most kids do. He's 9 now, and what I've seen over and over (often after I've been fretting over something for quite awhile) is that he does them when he's ready, and once he does, you can't tell the difference between him and the kids who did it earlier. This has applied to walking, putting his own clothes on, using the toilet independently, giving up thumb-sucking...a whole long list.
Eric is often physically ready or able to do something long before he's psychologically or emotionally ready to do it. It can be frustrating as a parent ("he could dress himself if he just _would_!") and has gotten him some criticism (my mother called him "lazy" when he didn't walk until 17 months). But this seems to be part of his process, and although I have not been a perfect parent in this regard, it is always best to trust him and his timetable, rather than push and create conflict and resentment.
You say you don't want to battle but want her to stop wearing diapers all the time. These could very well be incompatible goals, and the first one may be the only one you have any control over--you can choose not to battle over it. When she asks for a diaper, say "sure" and cheerfully help her with it. You can choose to remove diapers as a focus of conflict for you and her, and by doing that, remove any motivation she might have to control the situation by insisting on diapers or holding onto them longer than she might otherwise.
If you're concerned about diapers interfering with her understanding what's going on with her body, you might consider two possibilities: one is that she is perfectly aware but not ready to give up diapers for other reasons; the other is that developmentally that piece has not fallen into place for her yet. She's showing very plainly that she is not yet ready to give up diapers; you don't necessarily have to understand the reasons for that to respect it, and to trust that she will indeed give up diapers in her own good time.
(I sound mellower about this kind of stuff in theory than I have often been in practice. But that just makes me more of an authority when I say, "the not-mellow option rarely works out as well as the mellow option.")
Su, mom to Eric, 9; Carl, 6; Yehva, 2.5
tapeflags.blogspot.com
Robin Bentley
> (I sound mellower about this kind of stuff in theory than I haveThat's my experience, too. I could have avoided some angst for both me
> often been in practice. But that just makes me more of an authority
> when I say, "the not-mellow option rarely works out as well as the
> mellow option.")
>
and my daughter if I hadn't pushed (and those pushes were tiny).
Reminds me of that expression, "Dude, you're harshing my mellow."
Maybe that's good advice for parenting: don't harsh your kids' mellow
<g>.
Robin B.
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "Susan Fuerst" <fuerst@...> wrote:
Only because they're not allowed to do so. My partner had poo accidents as late as 7, in school and everything - he got to be the kid other kids made fun of, so he was pretty adamant that when Ray was still wetting the bed and having periodic poo accidents during the day at 6 and 7 that we not make a big deal. I can promise you that at 16 he no longer has those issues ;)
Someone on another list dealt with a related issue - a dd who didn't want to have anything to do with diapers - by leaving changes of clothes in convenient places. Maybe you can leave diapers in convenient places if she's okay changing herself.
What is it about the diapers she likes? That's the sort of thing that's tricky to ask kids, in my experience, because no-one likes to feel on the defensive. If I ask Morgan "why don't you want to take a bath?" (for example... not many baths here this winter) in a frustrated tone, she'll glower at me and not reply, but asking in a casual way she's told me that she's not dirty and baths are boring
- which gave me ideas for problem solving. If your dd likes diapers because she doesn't want to grow up, for instance, you could find ways to love her that help her feel babied and special. If she likes the way they smell you could get some nice powder. If she just doesn't want to talk about the matter, that's fine too, of course - she may simply not be ready in some way.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>> At the same time, she has defied the old wives tale that you won't see a child go off to kindergarten wearing diapers**************
Only because they're not allowed to do so. My partner had poo accidents as late as 7, in school and everything - he got to be the kid other kids made fun of, so he was pretty adamant that when Ray was still wetting the bed and having periodic poo accidents during the day at 6 and 7 that we not make a big deal. I can promise you that at 16 he no longer has those issues ;)
Someone on another list dealt with a related issue - a dd who didn't want to have anything to do with diapers - by leaving changes of clothes in convenient places. Maybe you can leave diapers in convenient places if she's okay changing herself.
What is it about the diapers she likes? That's the sort of thing that's tricky to ask kids, in my experience, because no-one likes to feel on the defensive. If I ask Morgan "why don't you want to take a bath?" (for example... not many baths here this winter) in a frustrated tone, she'll glower at me and not reply, but asking in a casual way she's told me that she's not dirty and baths are boring
- which gave me ideas for problem solving. If your dd likes diapers because she doesn't want to grow up, for instance, you could find ways to love her that help her feel babied and special. If she likes the way they smell you could get some nice powder. If she just doesn't want to talk about the matter, that's fine too, of course - she may simply not be ready in some way.
>>I am concerned that she may increase her risk for UTII've known boys to get UTIs from grubby little hands and girls from too much soap in the bath, but I don't personally know anyone who's gotten a UTI from wearing a diaper. Heck, some adult ladies walk around in panty shields all day without getting UTIs. Is it that she doesn't want to take off a poopy diaper?
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Anita Rios-Sherman
Have you considered using cloth potty training pants? I know it worked well
with my daughter because they are kind of bulky like a diaper but, you can
wash them and treat the like underwear. I have an almost eight year old who
wears pull ups. He has been diagnosed with Sensory Integration Disorder and
is a high function Autistic.
Be patient and your stress may be stressing her out.
--
-
Anita
Wife to Jimmy
Momma to home learners and thinkers: Dexter (11/99) Joaquin (8/02) Maggie
(6/04) Waylon(6/06) Hezekiah (9/08) home learners and thinkers
2 Peter 3:18
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with my daughter because they are kind of bulky like a diaper but, you can
wash them and treat the like underwear. I have an almost eight year old who
wears pull ups. He has been diagnosed with Sensory Integration Disorder and
is a high function Autistic.
Be patient and your stress may be stressing her out.
--
-
Anita
Wife to Jimmy
Momma to home learners and thinkers: Dexter (11/99) Joaquin (8/02) Maggie
(6/04) Waylon(6/06) Hezekiah (9/08) home learners and thinkers
2 Peter 3:18
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aldq75
>>>>>I have said that she can use a diaper if she wants, but that she doesn't need to wear them all day long....
However, when remove her diaper in the morning, I have been saying she needs to leave it off for a while then if she still wants one at lunchtime, she can choose to. <<<<<
It's not always easy to hide our feelings of frustration and worry (especially when feces is involved).
It seems to me like she does "need" the diapers. You said that she is traumatized when she doesn't have one. I would let her control when she wants to wear one, instead of trying to control it yourself.
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], "Susan Fuerst" <fuerst@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am facing a strange (to me) situation. I have a 5.5 yo dd who wants to wear diapers. She appears completely traumatized when she doesn't have one (like when we run out). I have asked that she get them off as soon as she 'goes' in them so that she can keep herself clean. I am concerned that she may increase her risk for UTI (urinary tract infection) by wearing them longer. She refuses to go anywhere near a toilet for elimination, so I have said that she can use a diaper if she wants, but that she doesn't need to wear them all day long. I thought ti would be simpler in summer because she will wear a swimsuit for water activities and she doesn't' mind. However, when remove her diaper in the morning, I have been saying she needs to leave it off for a while then if she still wants one at lunchtime, she can choose to. However, she hasn't been able tell me when she goes (meaning she chooses not to, she does seem to know). Of course, this sets her up to try to sneak and hide it from me, and that isn't good.
>
> At the same time, she has defied the old wives tale that you won't see a child go off to kindergarten wearing diapers (well, maybe not since she won't be going to kindergartens, but age-wise she has passed that limit).
>
> While I don't want to battle over this, I DO want her to stop wearing diapers all day long; I don't think it's healthy. I am concerned, too, that she will be out of touch with her bodies needs wrt to elimination.
>
> Any insight would be appreciated.
>
> Susan
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
k
And I know of at least one 8 year old not wearing dipes but still
going in her underwear. She went to school last year and I think they
are back to homeschooling again this year after moving several states
away. That was the plan. The mom was concerned and said she knew it
was illogical that it seemed her daughter would do it on purpose to
defy her. She made her daughter clean up herself and then made a big
deal of asking if her hands had been washed, even going so far as to
smell them! I just wanted to disappear.
Before all that had gone down, I had said .. yeh that is illogical. I
thought but didn't say it's possibly developmental/physicaland
considering the approach of the mom it's much more likely to be the
harshing of the mellow that Robin mentioned.
I remember when I was a kid it happened yet people pretended it wasn't
happening. Maybe our culture is far too freaked out by elimination. It
harkens back to Victorian days.
I remember one boy who had a lot of problems with it in school. I felt
even as a child that this boy was being neglected or maybe abused
(that was my impression... isn't necessarily correct), that he was a
nice boy. It's not a dread disease. Even my sisters and their kids
were bedwetters. Some were and some weren't.
UTIs aren't from diapers! Or not that I've heard of. And UTI is
treatable in several ways depending on degree of infection. Women are
much more likely to get UTIs than probably anyone else, aren't they?
Someone else knows besides me altho it could be googled as well.
There will be a time when your child won't need understanding about
diapers. It will be about something else. Be listening. Precious
moments isn't just a collectible we can buy (a little pun). For me, a
big one is the breastfeeding I now miss. There were times the whole
thing seemed overwhelming.
Karl will be seven next month, and no he isn't wearing diapers (he
never liked them anyway and hated getting changed so we moved to
pullups asap). He's closer to potty independent but not all the way
there. Which is fine. I have his routine down and he isn't in school
so there's no bother for us. It's just part of our ever changing
lives. :)
I don't focus on comparing us to other families or Karl to other 6
year olds. I take note at times then focus on who we are now. If my
focus was on what others might be doing I wouldn't be able to focus on
what we have. Things would bother me.
~Katherine
going in her underwear. She went to school last year and I think they
are back to homeschooling again this year after moving several states
away. That was the plan. The mom was concerned and said she knew it
was illogical that it seemed her daughter would do it on purpose to
defy her. She made her daughter clean up herself and then made a big
deal of asking if her hands had been washed, even going so far as to
smell them! I just wanted to disappear.
Before all that had gone down, I had said .. yeh that is illogical. I
thought but didn't say it's possibly developmental/physicaland
considering the approach of the mom it's much more likely to be the
harshing of the mellow that Robin mentioned.
I remember when I was a kid it happened yet people pretended it wasn't
happening. Maybe our culture is far too freaked out by elimination. It
harkens back to Victorian days.
I remember one boy who had a lot of problems with it in school. I felt
even as a child that this boy was being neglected or maybe abused
(that was my impression... isn't necessarily correct), that he was a
nice boy. It's not a dread disease. Even my sisters and their kids
were bedwetters. Some were and some weren't.
UTIs aren't from diapers! Or not that I've heard of. And UTI is
treatable in several ways depending on degree of infection. Women are
much more likely to get UTIs than probably anyone else, aren't they?
Someone else knows besides me altho it could be googled as well.
There will be a time when your child won't need understanding about
diapers. It will be about something else. Be listening. Precious
moments isn't just a collectible we can buy (a little pun). For me, a
big one is the breastfeeding I now miss. There were times the whole
thing seemed overwhelming.
Karl will be seven next month, and no he isn't wearing diapers (he
never liked them anyway and hated getting changed so we moved to
pullups asap). He's closer to potty independent but not all the way
there. Which is fine. I have his routine down and he isn't in school
so there's no bother for us. It's just part of our ever changing
lives. :)
I don't focus on comparing us to other families or Karl to other 6
year olds. I take note at times then focus on who we are now. If my
focus was on what others might be doing I wouldn't be able to focus on
what we have. Things would bother me.
~Katherine
On 6/21/10, Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...> wrote:
>> Yeah - I think you heard it wrong. She won't go off to college wearing
>> diapers, is the way I've heard it <G>.
>
> College-age is way better to aim for <g>
>
>> Why not just use pull-ups and treat them exactly like you'd treat
>> underwear - change when wet or dirty, just like you would wet or dirty
>> panties.
>>
>> My oldest daughter, Roya, wore pull-ups until she was 7 or so.
>>
> I know at least two kids who wore pull-ups until the age of 8.
>
> Robin b.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
foehn_jye
>>>Reminds me of that expression, "Dude, you're harshing my mellow."Maybe that's good advice for parenting: don't harsh your kids' mellow <g>.<<<
That's great, Robin! Thanks for that!
My 4.5 year old still uses a diaper for pooping. She's very aware of when she needs to go and will request that I put a diaper on her. She has told me she likes diapers because it makes her feel like she is still a baby. She also likes her "little poop house" which is the pantry.
While I sometimes feel frustrated that she is continuing to poop in a diaper, I make every attempt to not let her know about or feel that frustration. It's just a voice in my own head.
I think that if she went poop more than once every several days (which is how it's been for her since she was born) she might have grown tired of diapers a while ago. Or maybe not.
The other night I woke up and she was sitting on the floor of the bathroom with the light on. Worried, I asked if she was okay. She said, very sadly and with much emotion, "I had to poop in the potty!" and then she proceeded to start crying. "You did?" I asked, surprised and excited. "How cool!" I said, and she lit up like a ray of sun, "How cool?" she asked, "I thought you might get mad that I didn't ask for a diaper." I proceeded to give her a big hug, and we went back to bed. For the next week she proudly told everyone the story...but has pooped in the diaper since. It has been interesting to observe her reactions and continued choice in the matter.
aldq75
"I don't focus on comparing us to other families or Karl to other 6
year olds. I take note at times then focus on who we are now. If my
focus was on what others might be doing I wouldn't be able to focus on
what we have. Things would bother me."
----
Thank you for this, Katherine. It is exactly what I needed to hear today!
Andrea Q
year olds. I take note at times then focus on who we are now. If my
focus was on what others might be doing I wouldn't be able to focus on
what we have. Things would bother me."
----
Thank you for this, Katherine. It is exactly what I needed to hear today!
Andrea Q
--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
> And I know of at least one 8 year old not wearing dipes but still
> going in her underwear. She went to school last year and I think they
> are back to homeschooling again this year after moving several states
> away. That was the plan. The mom was concerned and said she knew it
> was illogical that it seemed her daughter would do it on purpose to
> defy her. She made her daughter clean up herself and then made a big
> deal of asking if her hands had been washed, even going so far as to
> smell them! I just wanted to disappear.
>
> Before all that had gone down, I had said .. yeh that is illogical. I
> thought but didn't say it's possibly developmental/physicaland
> considering the approach of the mom it's much more likely to be the
> harshing of the mellow that Robin mentioned.
>
> I remember when I was a kid it happened yet people pretended it wasn't
> happening. Maybe our culture is far too freaked out by elimination. It
> harkens back to Victorian days.
>
> I remember one boy who had a lot of problems with it in school. I felt
> even as a child that this boy was being neglected or maybe abused
> (that was my impression... isn't necessarily correct), that he was a
> nice boy. It's not a dread disease. Even my sisters and their kids
> were bedwetters. Some were and some weren't.
>
> UTIs aren't from diapers! Or not that I've heard of. And UTI is
> treatable in several ways depending on degree of infection. Women are
> much more likely to get UTIs than probably anyone else, aren't they?
> Someone else knows besides me altho it could be googled as well.
>
> There will be a time when your child won't need understanding about
> diapers. It will be about something else. Be listening. Precious
> moments isn't just a collectible we can buy (a little pun). For me, a
> big one is the breastfeeding I now miss. There were times the whole
> thing seemed overwhelming.
>
> Karl will be seven next month, and no he isn't wearing diapers (he
> never liked them anyway and hated getting changed so we moved to
> pullups asap). He's closer to potty independent but not all the way
> there. Which is fine. I have his routine down and he isn't in school
> so there's no bother for us. It's just part of our ever changing
> lives. :)
>
> I don't focus on comparing us to other families or Karl to other 6
> year olds. I take note at times then focus on who we are now. If my
> focus was on what others might be doing I wouldn't be able to focus on
> what we have. Things would bother me.
>
> ~Katherine
>
>
>
> On 6/21/10, Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...> wrote:
> >> Yeah - I think you heard it wrong. She won't go off to college wearing
> >> diapers, is the way I've heard it <G>.
> >
> > College-age is way better to aim for <g>
> >
> >> Why not just use pull-ups and treat them exactly like you'd treat
> >> underwear - change when wet or dirty, just like you would wet or dirty
> >> panties.
> >>
> >> My oldest daughter, Roya, wore pull-ups until she was 7 or so.
> >>
> > I know at least two kids who wore pull-ups until the age of 8.
> >
> > Robin b.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I have a friend who's son used diapers day until he was almost 7 and night until he was over 7.
They never pushed or made him feel bad.
He is nine now and uses the toilet like any regular 9 year old.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
They never pushed or made him feel bad.
He is nine now and uses the toilet like any regular 9 year old.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-However, when remove her diaper in the morning, I have been saying
she needs to leave it off for a while then if she still wants one at
lunchtime, she can choose to. -=-
If you tell her what she needs, how will she learn what she needs?
If you believe you know what she needs, how will you learn that she
could potentially learn what she needs?
If what you meant was "I need for you to leave it off..." then be
honest.
And the next step would be to wonder if it's true that YOU need her to
leave it off.
There are things children really do need, for unschooling to work.
They need their parents' positive regard, and they need parents who
are being extremely mindful of what they say and why. What we say
(or write) is often a clue to what we think or believe, even without
us knowing it.
You wrote that you tell your daughter that she needs to leave her
diaper off from the time she wakes up to lunchtime. Please reexamine
that in some detail, in your own thoughts, for the good of your
relationship, and of your daughter's wholeness, and of your unschooling.
If you set your desires and needs in opposition to hers, you create a
situation in which one is a loser and one is a winner. You can both
be winners if you're partners.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
she needs to leave it off for a while then if she still wants one at
lunchtime, she can choose to. -=-
If you tell her what she needs, how will she learn what she needs?
If you believe you know what she needs, how will you learn that she
could potentially learn what she needs?
If what you meant was "I need for you to leave it off..." then be
honest.
And the next step would be to wonder if it's true that YOU need her to
leave it off.
There are things children really do need, for unschooling to work.
They need their parents' positive regard, and they need parents who
are being extremely mindful of what they say and why. What we say
(or write) is often a clue to what we think or believe, even without
us knowing it.
You wrote that you tell your daughter that she needs to leave her
diaper off from the time she wakes up to lunchtime. Please reexamine
that in some detail, in your own thoughts, for the good of your
relationship, and of your daughter's wholeness, and of your unschooling.
If you set your desires and needs in opposition to hers, you create a
situation in which one is a loser and one is a winner. You can both
be winners if you're partners.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Miriam Mason
My younger son, Ethan, is 8, and still uses pullups. He goes through
phases where he wants them when he feels he needs them more, and times
he wants nothing to do with them. They are simply available to him,
should he decide he wants a pullup instead of undies.
Mim
phases where he wants them when he feels he needs them more, and times
he wants nothing to do with them. They are simply available to him,
should he decide he wants a pullup instead of undies.
Mim
On Jun 21, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
> My oldest daughter, Roya, wore pull-ups until she was 7 or so.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-
UTIs aren't from diapers! Or not that I've heard of. And UTI is
treatable in several ways depending on degree of infection. Women are
much more likely to get UTIs than probably anyone else, aren't they?
Someone else knows besides me altho it could be googled as well.-=-
Yes and what I've heard for years is that the main cause seems to be
that women "hold it" longer than is healthy, because they're busy,
because they're taking care of other people, because they CAN hold it
(those baby-pushing muscles or whatever), and the urine stays inside
too long. That's what I've been told.
So if that's true, what would be the worst thing would be whatever
causes a girl to try to hold it in, and if she's not ready to know
when she needs to go, and if her choice is peeing herself in her
clothes in awkward or embarrassing situations, or learning to hold it
in... not the best situation.
I didn't have problems when I was little with going anywhere besides
the toilet, but "needing the toilet" for me was a very general thing.
I remember when I was nine years old and other kids were explaining to
me the #1 and #2, or would ask casually (out of curiosity) whether I
was going to do #1 or #2 when I went to the bathroom, I remember not
knowing the answer, and wondering how anyone could. My urge to go was
vague and not specific until I was ten or so.
Maybe that doesn't happen with boys, but with me, as a girl, all I
thought was "toilet time."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
UTIs aren't from diapers! Or not that I've heard of. And UTI is
treatable in several ways depending on degree of infection. Women are
much more likely to get UTIs than probably anyone else, aren't they?
Someone else knows besides me altho it could be googled as well.-=-
Yes and what I've heard for years is that the main cause seems to be
that women "hold it" longer than is healthy, because they're busy,
because they're taking care of other people, because they CAN hold it
(those baby-pushing muscles or whatever), and the urine stays inside
too long. That's what I've been told.
So if that's true, what would be the worst thing would be whatever
causes a girl to try to hold it in, and if she's not ready to know
when she needs to go, and if her choice is peeing herself in her
clothes in awkward or embarrassing situations, or learning to hold it
in... not the best situation.
I didn't have problems when I was little with going anywhere besides
the toilet, but "needing the toilet" for me was a very general thing.
I remember when I was nine years old and other kids were explaining to
me the #1 and #2, or would ask casually (out of curiosity) whether I
was going to do #1 or #2 when I went to the bathroom, I remember not
knowing the answer, and wondering how anyone could. My urge to go was
vague and not specific until I was ten or so.
Maybe that doesn't happen with boys, but with me, as a girl, all I
thought was "toilet time."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/21/2010 2:09 PM, aldq75 wrote:
developmental ages and stages. Lots of parents have unreasonable
expectations of their young children - think they are motivated by all
kinds of things that kids that age aren't really even capable of, for
example. It was really helpful in my family for my husband to be around
other kids the same approximate ages of our kids so that his
expectations of our kids would be more reasonable.
-pam
> "I don't focus on comparing us to other families or Karl to other 6. It is, on the one hand, useful to have a reasonable sense of typical
> year olds. I take note at times then focus on who we are now. If my
> focus was on what others might be doing I wouldn't be able to focus on
> what we have. Things would bother me."
>
> ----
>
> Thank you for this, Katherine. It is exactly what I needed to hear today!
developmental ages and stages. Lots of parents have unreasonable
expectations of their young children - think they are motivated by all
kinds of things that kids that age aren't really even capable of, for
example. It was really helpful in my family for my husband to be around
other kids the same approximate ages of our kids so that his
expectations of our kids would be more reasonable.
-pam
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Here is a thought...companies make diapers to fit older kids because it is
profitable. That means you don't have the only five year old in diapers!
Marty decided, after being diaper-free, from about age two or so to go back
when he was six to diapers at night. It lasted a about six months. He quit
because he discovered the cost of the diapers at the grocery store. He
asked me for the diaper money instead. I agreed unthinkingly, but he never
wet his bed.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
profitable. That means you don't have the only five year old in diapers!
Marty decided, after being diaper-free, from about age two or so to go back
when he was six to diapers at night. It lasted a about six months. He quit
because he discovered the cost of the diapers at the grocery store. He
asked me for the diaper money instead. I agreed unthinkingly, but he never
wet his bed.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***While I don't want to battle over this, I DO want her to stop wearing diapers all day long; I don't think it's healthy. I am concerned, too, that she will be out of touch with her bodies needs wrt to elimination.***
Perhaps she's really afraid to have an accident. We had a neighbor, schooled kid, that should have been and would have benefited greatly from wearing pull ups or diapers. She's almost 10 now and still has UTI's from her toileting trauma from NOT being able to wear diapers or pull ups and having lots of accidents and trying to hide them or hold it in longer than is necessary. I can't even tell you how many poopy pairs of undies she hid in my house alone, just from play visits. That doesn't even begin to account for all the accidents she had in school. Even a year ago, I picked her up after school, and at least once a week she came home in wet or poopy underwear which she tried to hide.
The happy alternative is to give the kid a pull up or diaper and help her until she feels totally comfortable going without.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Perhaps she's really afraid to have an accident. We had a neighbor, schooled kid, that should have been and would have benefited greatly from wearing pull ups or diapers. She's almost 10 now and still has UTI's from her toileting trauma from NOT being able to wear diapers or pull ups and having lots of accidents and trying to hide them or hold it in longer than is necessary. I can't even tell you how many poopy pairs of undies she hid in my house alone, just from play visits. That doesn't even begin to account for all the accidents she had in school. Even a year ago, I picked her up after school, and at least once a week she came home in wet or poopy underwear which she tried to hide.
The happy alternative is to give the kid a pull up or diaper and help her until she feels totally comfortable going without.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Miriam Mason
Just as an aside, said same 8 year old asks for me or his dad to
accompany him to the bathroom for "protection" every time he does use
it. For whatever reason, Ethan is afraid of his own reflection in the
shower door edgings. We cover them, but he still knows the reflection
is "underneath" and it bothers him. We always accompany him. Who
wants to feel afraid while going to the bathroom? And who wants to
feel worried all day long about whether or not they'll be able to
control their bathroom functions so that somebody else will be happy?
Seems like a drain on energy and relationship and fun; and whatever
deep learning is happening, it will be colored by those concurrent
worries.
Mim
accompany him to the bathroom for "protection" every time he does use
it. For whatever reason, Ethan is afraid of his own reflection in the
shower door edgings. We cover them, but he still knows the reflection
is "underneath" and it bothers him. We always accompany him. Who
wants to feel afraid while going to the bathroom? And who wants to
feel worried all day long about whether or not they'll be able to
control their bathroom functions so that somebody else will be happy?
Seems like a drain on energy and relationship and fun; and whatever
deep learning is happening, it will be colored by those concurrent
worries.
Mim
On Jun 22, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
> It is, on the one hand, useful to have a reasonable sense of typical
> developmental ages and stages. Lots of parents have unreasonable
> expectations of their young children - think they are motivated by all
> kinds of things that kids that age aren't really even capable of, for
> example.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
NCMama
-=-I am not always available to watch to change her diaper and check it. She doesn't let people know when she needs a change, so I do get concerned for her to have feces on her.-=-
She's 5. Why are you not available? Is the scenario that you want her to stop using diapers so she'll be completely independent in this area? If she senses that she'd get LESS connection from you if she's going on the potty, that may be one reason she's insisting not just on diapering, but on lying down. If this is one of the few times she gets your undivided attention, just with her, she could be holding on to it for that reason - in addition to, just not being physically ready.
And about the leaky diapers - my oldest wore diapers until he was four and a half. We mostly used cloth, but started using disposables and pullups toward the end. I remember thinking with the way disposables are designed now (and this was 13 years ago!) a kid could go hours and hours without ever feeling wet; I used to joke (not within his hearing) that I was worried those diapers would completely dehydrate him, with all that super-dry stuff in there. I can't imagine not noticing a smell right away if she pooped - or being with her, so I noticed when she pooped, or not changing often enough that the diaper would actually be leaky.
At her age, she needs you, right with her. Are you away from her a lot? Are you busy doing other things, so you're not really spending most of your time with her?
Caren
She's 5. Why are you not available? Is the scenario that you want her to stop using diapers so she'll be completely independent in this area? If she senses that she'd get LESS connection from you if she's going on the potty, that may be one reason she's insisting not just on diapering, but on lying down. If this is one of the few times she gets your undivided attention, just with her, she could be holding on to it for that reason - in addition to, just not being physically ready.
And about the leaky diapers - my oldest wore diapers until he was four and a half. We mostly used cloth, but started using disposables and pullups toward the end. I remember thinking with the way disposables are designed now (and this was 13 years ago!) a kid could go hours and hours without ever feeling wet; I used to joke (not within his hearing) that I was worried those diapers would completely dehydrate him, with all that super-dry stuff in there. I can't imagine not noticing a smell right away if she pooped - or being with her, so I noticed when she pooped, or not changing often enough that the diaper would actually be leaky.
At her age, she needs you, right with her. Are you away from her a lot? Are you busy doing other things, so you're not really spending most of your time with her?
Caren
Vidyut Kale
"I am not always available to watch to change her diaper and check it."
Just wondering, could that be part of her desire for diapers? With my son, I
notice it takes more of my availability and attention when he's not wearing
diapers or he ends up wet and dirty and irritable, rather than the relative
comfort of the mess contained in a diaper that can be changed swiftly... He
gets really cranky if I miss his cues and he ends up messing himself and his
cues are really loud and sometimes desperate when he's not wearing a diaper.
Don't know if I'm making sense. Just that the moment of a poop or pee is
rather urgent as compared with the change of a diaper which can afford some
leeway and doesn't require control or depending on assistance.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just wondering, could that be part of her desire for diapers? With my son, I
notice it takes more of my availability and attention when he's not wearing
diapers or he ends up wet and dirty and irritable, rather than the relative
comfort of the mess contained in a diaper that can be changed swiftly... He
gets really cranky if I miss his cues and he ends up messing himself and his
cues are really loud and sometimes desperate when he's not wearing a diaper.
Don't know if I'm making sense. Just that the moment of a poop or pee is
rather urgent as compared with the change of a diaper which can afford some
leeway and doesn't require control or depending on assistance.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shirlinda_momof3
--- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
Having said that, the child is probably more aware of any symptoms (burning, itching, etc) than some of the adults I come in contact with, and she can alert her mom to her discomfort.
I suggest you find the root of the need for the diapers. Security, more mommy time, laziness, or fear of the toilet maybe? Would having her own, non-flushing, potty help the transition?
>Yes, incontinence does increase the risk and rate of chronic UTI due to the bacteria that accumulate in the genital area, with or without feces. It can also cause skin breakdown and ulcers.
> Why would diaper wearing increase the risk of UTI's? Really? Do the incontinent elderly have a greater risk of UTI's? Why are you worried about it?
>
>
Having said that, the child is probably more aware of any symptoms (burning, itching, etc) than some of the adults I come in contact with, and she can alert her mom to her discomfort.
I suggest you find the root of the need for the diapers. Security, more mommy time, laziness, or fear of the toilet maybe? Would having her own, non-flushing, potty help the transition?
plaidpanties666
Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@...> wrote:
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
> IYes, that was something I found too, with Morgan when she stopped wanting to wear diapers. She was 2ish, and really mobile, so I had to keep an eye out much more when she didn't have a diaper on. It was more of a hassle, by far. Even once she started using the potty - and she had a really quick, easy transition, comparitively - there was a long period where I felt like I was asking "do you need to pee" a hundred times a day. I'm sure it wasn't that many ;) but the point is that it can take a lot more attention once the diapers come off, at least at first.
> notice it takes more of my availability and attention when he's not wearing
> diapers or he ends up wet and dirty and irritable, rather than the relative
> comfort of the mess contained in a diaper that can be changed swiftly...
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Sandra Dodd
-=-Yes, incontinence does increase the risk and rate of chronic UTI
due to the bacteria that accumulate in the genital area, with or
without feces. It can also cause skin breakdown and ulcers.-=-
If you're bringing evidence, please include a link or reference.
If someone is wearing incontinence pads but also takes a shower or
bath every day, I don't think they would necessarily get any
"accumulation" of anything.
If someone is not wearing incontinence pads, and ends up with damp
undies, AND doesn't bathe regularly, I'd be surprised if there weren't
tract infections sometimes. But I think it would be a lack of
cleanliness, not incontinence, that would cause that.
I have a quadriplegic friend (my best friend in college, had an
accident at 24). I took care of her for a while. She did (still
does) a lot of research all along, and opted not to have an indwelling
catheter, because of the risk of infection. She's 59, still alive,
but the catheter is inserted five times a day or so, and she and the
catheter cleaned each time.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
due to the bacteria that accumulate in the genital area, with or
without feces. It can also cause skin breakdown and ulcers.-=-
If you're bringing evidence, please include a link or reference.
If someone is wearing incontinence pads but also takes a shower or
bath every day, I don't think they would necessarily get any
"accumulation" of anything.
If someone is not wearing incontinence pads, and ends up with damp
undies, AND doesn't bathe regularly, I'd be surprised if there weren't
tract infections sometimes. But I think it would be a lack of
cleanliness, not incontinence, that would cause that.
I have a quadriplegic friend (my best friend in college, had an
accident at 24). I took care of her for a while. She did (still
does) a lot of research all along, and opted not to have an indwelling
catheter, because of the risk of infection. She's 59, still alive,
but the catheter is inserted five times a day or so, and she and the
catheter cleaned each time.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lylaw
I am confused why anyone thinks a 5 year old in diapers would be more prone than a 2 year old to UTIs - how is that any different?
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 25, 2010, at 7:32 PM, shirlinda_momof3 wrote:
person has set the bar and judges the other as not living up to it.
Really turns people around facing away from unschooling to see kids as
lazy.
Here's something to read for those tempted to think of their kids as
lazy:
http://sandradodd.com/lazy/kids
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> lazinessNot a good term for unschoolers to use. What is laziness? It means one
person has set the bar and judges the other as not living up to it.
Really turns people around facing away from unschooling to see kids as
lazy.
Here's something to read for those tempted to think of their kids as
lazy:
http://sandradodd.com/lazy/kids
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]