Boy Scouts, following intstructions, taking direction
joanne.lopers
I have a sense of how you all may respond to this but I need to get more insight because something doesn't sit right with me in reguards to how I see this concern.
My oldest son 8 does not like to follow instructions a lot of the time. He is not completely unrulely but in many situations where there is a definate leader and where there are rules to follow he will respond rather reluctantly or defiantly. He seemed to be enjoying Boy Scouts for the most part until one day when we were at a park where the activities were very structured. The kids couldn't do this until they explained this, you could not ride around freely on your bike, had to wear shoes, etc. He got put off because he thought he should be able to play when he wanted and did not enjoy being told what to do. This particular troop was through a Catholic Church and most of the boys go to the catholic school. They all seem to fall in line when needed. (I was hoping others coul also talk about their scouting experiences and how it related to unschooling.) He can sometimes argue points that he is very obviously wrong on and get very excited about it. I think there was a tread recently that addressed that. I guess when he finds something that he definately wants to be part of he will follow the rules? I guess it is better not to give him too many directions and let him just watch and learn on his own terms? I still have conflict with in myself reguarding the more Christian, follow the higher power, hierachy way of doing things and what I get from unschooling.
Joanne
My oldest son 8 does not like to follow instructions a lot of the time. He is not completely unrulely but in many situations where there is a definate leader and where there are rules to follow he will respond rather reluctantly or defiantly. He seemed to be enjoying Boy Scouts for the most part until one day when we were at a park where the activities were very structured. The kids couldn't do this until they explained this, you could not ride around freely on your bike, had to wear shoes, etc. He got put off because he thought he should be able to play when he wanted and did not enjoy being told what to do. This particular troop was through a Catholic Church and most of the boys go to the catholic school. They all seem to fall in line when needed. (I was hoping others coul also talk about their scouting experiences and how it related to unschooling.) He can sometimes argue points that he is very obviously wrong on and get very excited about it. I think there was a tread recently that addressed that. I guess when he finds something that he definately wants to be part of he will follow the rules? I guess it is better not to give him too many directions and let him just watch and learn on his own terms? I still have conflict with in myself reguarding the more Christian, follow the higher power, hierachy way of doing things and what I get from unschooling.
Joanne
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
My son is also in Cub Scouts. What I do is I am always there with him , some times even by his side, to facilitate
and help him.
He needs me there to explain why or help him follow the "rules".
I don;t just sit there and let him just deal with it.
He needs me.
He does not want to get frustrated. He wants to participate and have fun with the other kids.
There has been times I had to get him out of the room or situation to talk to him and calm him down.
Its always been his choice to go. If he does not want to go he can stay home.
There are also two parents that are pretty good to help him out if I am not around and I always ask them for help.
My son MD does follow what they ask mostly but he gets so excited sometimes that he spaces out and just plays
or does not even listen to what people are saying until you get his attention and he hears your words.
Most of the time is when he wants to help out or just go ahead and do the activity.
Helping out is his favorite but the other kids want to help too.
When he is excited he sometimes cannot hear them as he is not focused on things around him but in what he is doing or wants to do.
Ok this was hard to explain and I don't know if I was clear enough.
So MD wants to be there and do the activities so I am by his side helping him achieve that,
he needs me less and less as he gets older and more mature. He is the youngest in his Den but
he enjoys it and we have fun.
I also make sure he has eaten well and had a drink before going as that can make a big difference.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and help him.
He needs me there to explain why or help him follow the "rules".
I don;t just sit there and let him just deal with it.
He needs me.
He does not want to get frustrated. He wants to participate and have fun with the other kids.
There has been times I had to get him out of the room or situation to talk to him and calm him down.
Its always been his choice to go. If he does not want to go he can stay home.
There are also two parents that are pretty good to help him out if I am not around and I always ask them for help.
My son MD does follow what they ask mostly but he gets so excited sometimes that he spaces out and just plays
or does not even listen to what people are saying until you get his attention and he hears your words.
Most of the time is when he wants to help out or just go ahead and do the activity.
Helping out is his favorite but the other kids want to help too.
When he is excited he sometimes cannot hear them as he is not focused on things around him but in what he is doing or wants to do.
Ok this was hard to explain and I don't know if I was clear enough.
So MD wants to be there and do the activities so I am by his side helping him achieve that,
he needs me less and less as he gets older and more mature. He is the youngest in his Den but
he enjoys it and we have fun.
I also make sure he has eaten well and had a drink before going as that can make a big difference.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I guess when he finds something that he definately wants to be part
of he will follow the rules? I guess it is better not to give him too
many directions and let him just watch and learn on his own terms?-=-
I think you should coach him to know what they expect and why, and
make recommendations of how he might manage to be cooperative. I doubt
he WANTS to have difficulties with other people.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of he will follow the rules? I guess it is better not to give him too
many directions and let him just watch and learn on his own terms?-=-
I think you should coach him to know what they expect and why, and
make recommendations of how he might manage to be cooperative. I doubt
he WANTS to have difficulties with other people.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
> Its always been his choice to go. If he does not want to go he canI think if he does choose to go, the choice should be "I'm choosing to
> stay home.
go and follow the rules."
Wearing shoes, doing the activities in the order planned by the leaders,
riding his bike only when and where allowed - those don't seem at all
unreasonable for a boy scout event.
He should decide whether the fun is worth going along with the rules. It
isn't really fair to the people doing all the work and volunteering
their time, otherwise. If you want a program that runs differently, then
you can volunteer to run one. I ran girl scout troops for many years
just so I could set them up in the more flexible way I wanted. When
Rosie was in a troop, though, with a different leader (who was VERY
rules-oriented and controlling), she chose to stay involved and deal
with it because of what she was getting out of it, herself.
-pam
Vidyut Kale
"I guess when he finds something that he definately wants to be part of he
will follow the rules? I guess it is better not to give him too many
directions and let him just watch and learn on his own terms?"
We recently (2 days ago) completed a camp for a couple of unschooling
families where the kids had different activities they could do. None of the
children were 'by the rules' type. My husband conducted the adventure
activities, since I was busy with N.
He is NOT an 'unschooly type'.
His feedback on the whole thing (one set of parents in particular) was "This
kind of a thing works better without parents emphasizing choices
unnecessarily and choices that diminish the potential experience" In his
opinion, there was no need to micro-analyze the 'do or not' of things
without an idea of what the experience was like, once the decision to attend
was made and he thinks it was dysfunctional. He thinks, the children would
have felt better supported if the parent helped them find ways that they
could work with the rules of the environment rather than see if they were
comfortable or not and offer withdrawal.
Everywhere in life, there are conditions. Visiting people, hobby classes,
scouts, camps, jobs, family, friends.... It is part of being functional in
any group to be able to adapt to its conditions if necessary. It seems,
signing on for something defines the 'necessary' for my husband. He feels
strongly that it is important the child learn to 'go with the flow' unless
the circumstances are somehow invasive or impossible. I see this as a give
and take. Negotiations can happen. Also the 'learning to go with the flow'
need not happen right now, or at every instance there is a conflict. But, as
a larger pattern, sure, I think its important that there are increasing
instances of attempting to adapt if the desire to belong exists.
I didn't see as much of an issue as he did, but I do share his observation
that there was constant attention and inquiries as to comfort, which
probably magnified the smallest discomfort by verbalizing it and fixing a
'position' on it at first awareness. Perhaps we are more used to stretching
boundaries, but it seems to me that any new experience involves moving out
of the familiar and it is likely not going to help the learning process if
support entails either withdrawal, breaking norms or leaving to own terms.
My impression now is that living in an environment with very few rules, the
children genuinely had no clue how to cope with rules imposed by people they
didn't already know well enough. It wasn't so much as they didn't want, as
it was a whole new array of considerations beyond what they were used to.
The support they got was in terms of checking on their comfort and offering
options of not doing the activity or persuading the instructors to let them
do what they wanted. I think of it now, but it didn't occur to me then. They
literally had no previous experience of being responsible for their actions
in an environment that deemed some of them appropriate and others not. It
would have helped if we could have supported them through the process of
working out the importance/significance of them, or even if we could simply
have provided encouragement and caring that made stretching boundaries like
that easier.
Though honestly,it didn't seem like the end of the world to me. Some
opportunities are more suited to adaptation than others *shrug*. This wasn't
the only one. There were likely many opportunities closer to their comfort
zone if the lives of the kids were seen as a continuity than a snapshot in a
camp.
I don't know how it goes with parents unfamiliar with the challenge of the
unfamiliar (yikes! talk of convoluted), but a possibility seemed that there
could be ways to discover how to learn to find new balances in changed
environments. Of course, its easy for me to see possibilities when I neither
conducted the activities nor participated in them. Perhaps, in the
situation, I might have made many choices that seemed excessively safe to
the point of closing off new experience. I don't know, but this is very
alive in me right now, as a parent, member of a community and as an
experiential learning facilitator.
Vidyut
PS: I wanted to edit this post shorter, but N wants attention, and I know I
will never send it out if I save it for later. Apolgies for the long winded
thinking out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
will follow the rules? I guess it is better not to give him too many
directions and let him just watch and learn on his own terms?"
We recently (2 days ago) completed a camp for a couple of unschooling
families where the kids had different activities they could do. None of the
children were 'by the rules' type. My husband conducted the adventure
activities, since I was busy with N.
He is NOT an 'unschooly type'.
His feedback on the whole thing (one set of parents in particular) was "This
kind of a thing works better without parents emphasizing choices
unnecessarily and choices that diminish the potential experience" In his
opinion, there was no need to micro-analyze the 'do or not' of things
without an idea of what the experience was like, once the decision to attend
was made and he thinks it was dysfunctional. He thinks, the children would
have felt better supported if the parent helped them find ways that they
could work with the rules of the environment rather than see if they were
comfortable or not and offer withdrawal.
Everywhere in life, there are conditions. Visiting people, hobby classes,
scouts, camps, jobs, family, friends.... It is part of being functional in
any group to be able to adapt to its conditions if necessary. It seems,
signing on for something defines the 'necessary' for my husband. He feels
strongly that it is important the child learn to 'go with the flow' unless
the circumstances are somehow invasive or impossible. I see this as a give
and take. Negotiations can happen. Also the 'learning to go with the flow'
need not happen right now, or at every instance there is a conflict. But, as
a larger pattern, sure, I think its important that there are increasing
instances of attempting to adapt if the desire to belong exists.
I didn't see as much of an issue as he did, but I do share his observation
that there was constant attention and inquiries as to comfort, which
probably magnified the smallest discomfort by verbalizing it and fixing a
'position' on it at first awareness. Perhaps we are more used to stretching
boundaries, but it seems to me that any new experience involves moving out
of the familiar and it is likely not going to help the learning process if
support entails either withdrawal, breaking norms or leaving to own terms.
My impression now is that living in an environment with very few rules, the
children genuinely had no clue how to cope with rules imposed by people they
didn't already know well enough. It wasn't so much as they didn't want, as
it was a whole new array of considerations beyond what they were used to.
The support they got was in terms of checking on their comfort and offering
options of not doing the activity or persuading the instructors to let them
do what they wanted. I think of it now, but it didn't occur to me then. They
literally had no previous experience of being responsible for their actions
in an environment that deemed some of them appropriate and others not. It
would have helped if we could have supported them through the process of
working out the importance/significance of them, or even if we could simply
have provided encouragement and caring that made stretching boundaries like
that easier.
Though honestly,it didn't seem like the end of the world to me. Some
opportunities are more suited to adaptation than others *shrug*. This wasn't
the only one. There were likely many opportunities closer to their comfort
zone if the lives of the kids were seen as a continuity than a snapshot in a
camp.
I don't know how it goes with parents unfamiliar with the challenge of the
unfamiliar (yikes! talk of convoluted), but a possibility seemed that there
could be ways to discover how to learn to find new balances in changed
environments. Of course, its easy for me to see possibilities when I neither
conducted the activities nor participated in them. Perhaps, in the
situation, I might have made many choices that seemed excessively safe to
the point of closing off new experience. I don't know, but this is very
alive in me right now, as a parent, member of a community and as an
experiential learning facilitator.
Vidyut
PS: I wanted to edit this post shorter, but N wants attention, and I know I
will never send it out if I save it for later. Apolgies for the long winded
thinking out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I didn't see as much of an issue as he did, but I do share his
observation
that there was constant attention and inquiries as to comfort, which
probably magnified the smallest discomfort by verbalizing it and
fixing a
'position' on it at first awareness. Perhaps we are more used to
stretching
boundaries, but it seems to me that any new experience involves moving
out
of the familiar and it is likely not going to help the learning
process if
support entails either withdrawal, breaking norms or leaving to own
terms.-=-
You wrote, " Perhaps we are more used to stretching boundaries, but..."
And I think you meant (but am not positive) that "we" would include
everyone in this discussion, but the "they" would be your husband?
(And other evil-doers? *joking*)
If I volunteer to run a music session (which I have and I do
sometimes), I'm not interested in accommodating the special mom-
supported oddities of any particular participant. There is an
implied "if-then" when someone volunteers to run an activity, and
"we" (the queen of England, an editor, or someone with tape
worms?) ... And *I* really, truly, don't want to spend any of the
short time scheduled to me to do something with a group on trying to
persuade an unschooling mom that it's really NOT okay for her darling
child to do whatever noisy, distracting thing he wants to.
IF someone thinks playing a piano with a skateboard is fine, then that
person needs to purchase a piano for that purpose. Do it at home.
Some things should be kept at home, or at least done with one's own
equipment. It's okay for Pete Townshend to bust up his own guitar
(kind of wasteful and irritating to some people, including the Fender
company, I think), but it's really not even NEARLY okay for him or for
anyone else to bust up one of MY guitars.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
observation
that there was constant attention and inquiries as to comfort, which
probably magnified the smallest discomfort by verbalizing it and
fixing a
'position' on it at first awareness. Perhaps we are more used to
stretching
boundaries, but it seems to me that any new experience involves moving
out
of the familiar and it is likely not going to help the learning
process if
support entails either withdrawal, breaking norms or leaving to own
terms.-=-
You wrote, " Perhaps we are more used to stretching boundaries, but..."
And I think you meant (but am not positive) that "we" would include
everyone in this discussion, but the "they" would be your husband?
(And other evil-doers? *joking*)
If I volunteer to run a music session (which I have and I do
sometimes), I'm not interested in accommodating the special mom-
supported oddities of any particular participant. There is an
implied "if-then" when someone volunteers to run an activity, and
"we" (the queen of England, an editor, or someone with tape
worms?) ... And *I* really, truly, don't want to spend any of the
short time scheduled to me to do something with a group on trying to
persuade an unschooling mom that it's really NOT okay for her darling
child to do whatever noisy, distracting thing he wants to.
IF someone thinks playing a piano with a skateboard is fine, then that
person needs to purchase a piano for that purpose. Do it at home.
Some things should be kept at home, or at least done with one's own
equipment. It's okay for Pete Townshend to bust up his own guitar
(kind of wasteful and irritating to some people, including the Fender
company, I think), but it's really not even NEARLY okay for him or for
anyone else to bust up one of MY guitars.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>I don't know how it goes with parents unfamiliar with the challenge of theunfamiliar (yikes! talk of convoluted), but a possibility seemed that there
could be ways to discover how to learn to find new balances in changed
environments.<<<
Unschooling is a way to parent that not many people are familiar with.
It involves a lot of discovery since the context for balance isn't
likely to be clear until a bit more awareness and experience is
underway.
One thing that really helps us avoid getting into things that Karl
isn't ready for is to talk about what he might encounter beforehand.
He has often opted out (not always) of things that he doesn't want to
do. We have gone home rather than disrupt others. I have definitely
talked with him about it right then and there too if it looks like he
doesn't want to be there after all. And absolutely, if he's hungry or
thirsty, and I haven't provided for that then I find some place that
has something for him nearby (example from this summer: he was thirsty
at the park, so we took a short break at a gas station a block away
for a drink and a bathroom visit).
I typically deal with safety concerns in the moment but they are more
like reminders of how to be safe than options of whether or not to be
safe! I forgot about safety all the time when I was a kid and I don't
think that's at all unusual. Sometimes reminders were annoying if they
were very frequent or more detailed than I wanted, and that's
definitely true of Karl too. When he was younger, he was perfectly
happy with more frequent safety reminders and now that he's older of
course that's changing. :)
~Katherine
Vidyut Kale
"And I think you meant (but am not positive) that "we" would include
everyone in this discussion, but the "they" would be your husband?
(And other evil-doers? *joking*)"
Oops. Actually, the we was my husband and I, as relatively veteran in the
outdoors. Even with an infant, we weren't at all anxious about things like
coping and comfort. We simply paid attention, and lived in the moment. Baby
was smiling all through (except power outages till we fanned him). I imagine
that if I was anxious, I'd have less flexibility - both to allow new
experiences in as well as to resolve issues with all my resources at hand.
So that 'we' was about the ones with experience living in the physical
conditions and 'they' was those new to them.
But yeah, in other ways, it did pan out like you said.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
everyone in this discussion, but the "they" would be your husband?
(And other evil-doers? *joking*)"
Oops. Actually, the we was my husband and I, as relatively veteran in the
outdoors. Even with an infant, we weren't at all anxious about things like
coping and comfort. We simply paid attention, and lived in the moment. Baby
was smiling all through (except power outages till we fanned him). I imagine
that if I was anxious, I'd have less flexibility - both to allow new
experiences in as well as to resolve issues with all my resources at hand.
So that 'we' was about the ones with experience living in the physical
conditions and 'they' was those new to them.
But yeah, in other ways, it did pan out like you said.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
If my kids want to go the the pool at the Athletic Club ( where we are members) one of the rules is
no running around the pool.
They can run around at a friends pool or their cousin's pool
but at the Athletic Club there are rules that we need to follow.
Same with Cub Scouts.
or any other activity or place that we may go.
Just today I had a hard time at the post office with the kids.
Next time I will find a way to go without them. Its just too much for them right now.
I confess I lost it and we had a talk in the car.
We then went to a pet store since our Gold Fish is sick and we are trying to find out what it
going on.
I asked them if they wanted to go home and I would come back to do it and they could be home
playing but they both chose to go and we had a great time there.
Of course pet shops are way better for kids than the lame post office waiting in line and all.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
no running around the pool.
They can run around at a friends pool or their cousin's pool
but at the Athletic Club there are rules that we need to follow.
Same with Cub Scouts.
or any other activity or place that we may go.
Just today I had a hard time at the post office with the kids.
Next time I will find a way to go without them. Its just too much for them right now.
I confess I lost it and we had a talk in the car.
We then went to a pet store since our Gold Fish is sick and we are trying to find out what it
going on.
I asked them if they wanted to go home and I would come back to do it and they could be home
playing but they both chose to go and we had a great time there.
Of course pet shops are way better for kids than the lame post office waiting in line and all.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@...> wrote:
Just this past weekend I brought Mo (8) to a yoga class with me, ready to leave if she wasn't comfortable with the situation. Of course, knowing my kid as I do, I also did a whole lot of prep-work: packed a bag with a dozen other things for her to do, brought a set of special yoga props and cards, and checked in with the teacher. That kind of proactivity is a good idea if you know in advance that your kid tends to have difficulties in group or class situations. It lets you have more options than "break the rules or leave".
Then again, I also don't really use the sort of continual checking-in process that Vidyut describes - I stay focused on my kid in the moment if the situation seems to call for that, and maybe that's a key difference. I don't *have to* check in because I'm right there, seeing the interest or withdrawal or discomfort and ready to offer another option before things get to the "uncomfortable" point, without making a big deal about it all.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>> probably magnified the smallest discomfort by verbalizing it and fixing aIt would depend a whoooooole lot on the specifics of kids and parents and situation and teacher. There have been any number of times I've gone with Mo or Ray to some class or group ready to pack up and go at a moment's notice if she or he wasn't comfortable with the experience - because with either of them "uncomfortable" could become "meltdown" and that wouldn't be fun for anyone involved.
> 'position' on it at first awareness. Perhaps we are more used to stretching
> boundaries, but it seems to me that any new experience involves moving out
> of the familiar and it is likely not going to help the learning process if
> support entails either withdrawal, breaking norms or leaving to own terms.
Just this past weekend I brought Mo (8) to a yoga class with me, ready to leave if she wasn't comfortable with the situation. Of course, knowing my kid as I do, I also did a whole lot of prep-work: packed a bag with a dozen other things for her to do, brought a set of special yoga props and cards, and checked in with the teacher. That kind of proactivity is a good idea if you know in advance that your kid tends to have difficulties in group or class situations. It lets you have more options than "break the rules or leave".
Then again, I also don't really use the sort of continual checking-in process that Vidyut describes - I stay focused on my kid in the moment if the situation seems to call for that, and maybe that's a key difference. I don't *have to* check in because I'm right there, seeing the interest or withdrawal or discomfort and ready to offer another option before things get to the "uncomfortable" point, without making a big deal about it all.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/15/2010 4:18 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:
middle of switching some stuff from blog posts to static pages. So right
now it is just overall confusing.
But - if you go there, you can look at the left-side menu and at the
bottom, there is a category called "Waiting Games." These are games for
when you're stuck waiting in lines, sitting at the doctor's office, or
on a car drive. We played most of these at the Life is Good Conference
and they were really fun.
Feel free to play around with the rules of any games to make them more
suitable for your family, of course.
The url for the blog is: http://learninghappens.wordpress.com/
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Of course pet shops are way better for kids than the lame post officeMy LearningHappens blog is kind of a mess right now because I'm in the
> waiting in line and all.
middle of switching some stuff from blog posts to static pages. So right
now it is just overall confusing.
But - if you go there, you can look at the left-side menu and at the
bottom, there is a category called "Waiting Games." These are games for
when you're stuck waiting in lines, sitting at the doctor's office, or
on a car drive. We played most of these at the Life is Good Conference
and they were really fun.
Feel free to play around with the rules of any games to make them more
suitable for your family, of course.
The url for the blog is: http://learninghappens.wordpress.com/
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
THANKS PAM!
I will look for it.
It was not a well planned trip to the post office,
I had to fill custom's forms and all.
Should have printed them out the net and done all before getting there.
Next time I will be more prepared.
I usually plan better but things today just added up wrong until that point,
and it did not help that I did not keep my cool.
One thing added to another and it got tricky for a while.
Nothing like being prepared and having a plan...or two ...or three!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I will look for it.
It was not a well planned trip to the post office,
I had to fill custom's forms and all.
Should have printed them out the net and done all before getting there.
Next time I will be more prepared.
I usually plan better but things today just added up wrong until that point,
and it did not help that I did not keep my cool.
One thing added to another and it got tricky for a while.
Nothing like being prepared and having a plan...or two ...or three!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Just to add to my last post.
If your day is not going good or you hit a snag with your children you can
take a moment , a deep breath, re-center and move on to a better place.
You don;t have to continue to have a bad day. It was just a moment.'
Change and re-direct yourself to a more positiveness.
After a talk, me calming down, apologies from me and several deep breaths we had a great time laughing as we fed the big
pond fish at the pet store.
I even got hugs and" I love you " from MD later on.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If your day is not going good or you hit a snag with your children you can
take a moment , a deep breath, re-center and move on to a better place.
You don;t have to continue to have a bad day. It was just a moment.'
Change and re-direct yourself to a more positiveness.
After a talk, me calming down, apologies from me and several deep breaths we had a great time laughing as we fed the big
pond fish at the pet store.
I even got hugs and" I love you " from MD later on.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cindyjsowers
** If I volunteer to run a music session ..... but it's really not even NEARLY okay for him or for anyone else to bust up one of MY guitars.**
And what might end up happening is, you would likely not feel so much like volunteering anymore if you felt your gear would be mistreated, and then everyone else who wanted to participate in the sessions would miss out. When someone facilitates something things go a lot more smoothly when they feel confident that those around them will be behaving respectfully and appropriate to the situation. Things like cubscouts are volunteer as well.
And what might end up happening is, you would likely not feel so much like volunteering anymore if you felt your gear would be mistreated, and then everyone else who wanted to participate in the sessions would miss out. When someone facilitates something things go a lot more smoothly when they feel confident that those around them will be behaving respectfully and appropriate to the situation. Things like cubscouts are volunteer as well.
Deb Lewis
***He got put off because he thought he should be able to play when he wanted and did not enjoy being told what to do. ***
How often does he get to go to the park? How often does he get to play with other kids? If a trip to the park with other kids (which is pretty exciting!) only happens during Boy Scouts, maybe he needs more opportunity for play and park outside of Scouts. Maybe some kind of play group would be better for him right now.
There was a homeschooled kid used to come to Dylan's Karate class who only wanted to play. He lived way out of town and didn't get to play with other kids. When he got to Karate, where there were a bunch of kids, following instructions was too much for him to cope with.
Deb Lewis
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How often does he get to go to the park? How often does he get to play with other kids? If a trip to the park with other kids (which is pretty exciting!) only happens during Boy Scouts, maybe he needs more opportunity for play and park outside of Scouts. Maybe some kind of play group would be better for him right now.
There was a homeschooled kid used to come to Dylan's Karate class who only wanted to play. He lived way out of town and didn't get to play with other kids. When he got to Karate, where there were a bunch of kids, following instructions was too much for him to cope with.
Deb Lewis
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Then again, I also don't really use the sort of continual checking-
in process .... I stay focused on my kid in the moment if the
situation seems to call for that, and maybe that's a key difference.-=-
But you did both--you planned ahead, and "checked in" as a natural
part of the interaction. You lived "checked in," maybe? :-)
Sandra
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in process .... I stay focused on my kid in the moment if the
situation seems to call for that, and maybe that's a key difference.-=-
But you did both--you planned ahead, and "checked in" as a natural
part of the interaction. You lived "checked in," maybe? :-)
Sandra
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Vidyut Kale
It wasn't the checking in that was the issue, but jumping to conclusions and
actions. For example, a child finding a new activity difficult will likely
be scared to attempt it. One possibility is to cue in to that fear and offer
withdrawal. Another is to change the activity to eliminate the fear
*changing the very nature of what is being attempted*. What seemed natural
and empowering (also commonly done in camps) to both of us, but we didn't
see playing out was to remain aware of the fear, offer support and encourage
trying out to whatever level the child could attempt without getting
excessively scared/overwhelmed. In our experience, it is a common factor of
stretching boundaries - becoming aware of the uncertainty of the desired new
experience and learning to adapt. I think it is a valuable learning for life
whether it is about rules or adventure.
We found that making the least discomfort significant and offering immediate
choices (without knowing what the experience would feel like) seemed to
lessen the child's tolerance for the unfamiliarity. For example, my husband
observed that it was usually the parent diverting the child's attention with
inquiries as to comfort. If I ask you if you are comfortable right now, you
are likely to become aware of whether the chair under your bottom feels
wholly comfortable or not, which didn't matter till I asked. Not to mention
that it kept pulling the child out of the 'flow', which is something that
allows a child to be engrossed and overcome minor inconveniences in the
pursuit of learning.
I don't think it is important to deny comfort for learning, but I do think
that it is healthy to go beyond absolute comfort when one finds something
interesting. It is what enables us to be functional in anything that isn't
solely focused on us.
Vidyut
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actions. For example, a child finding a new activity difficult will likely
be scared to attempt it. One possibility is to cue in to that fear and offer
withdrawal. Another is to change the activity to eliminate the fear
*changing the very nature of what is being attempted*. What seemed natural
and empowering (also commonly done in camps) to both of us, but we didn't
see playing out was to remain aware of the fear, offer support and encourage
trying out to whatever level the child could attempt without getting
excessively scared/overwhelmed. In our experience, it is a common factor of
stretching boundaries - becoming aware of the uncertainty of the desired new
experience and learning to adapt. I think it is a valuable learning for life
whether it is about rules or adventure.
We found that making the least discomfort significant and offering immediate
choices (without knowing what the experience would feel like) seemed to
lessen the child's tolerance for the unfamiliarity. For example, my husband
observed that it was usually the parent diverting the child's attention with
inquiries as to comfort. If I ask you if you are comfortable right now, you
are likely to become aware of whether the chair under your bottom feels
wholly comfortable or not, which didn't matter till I asked. Not to mention
that it kept pulling the child out of the 'flow', which is something that
allows a child to be engrossed and overcome minor inconveniences in the
pursuit of learning.
I don't think it is important to deny comfort for learning, but I do think
that it is healthy to go beyond absolute comfort when one finds something
interesting. It is what enables us to be functional in anything that isn't
solely focused on us.
Vidyut
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plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@...> wrote:
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>In our experience, it is a common factor ofDifferent people adapt in different ways, though, and not all those "ways" work well in a class situation. I'm not saying you should adapt the class or stretch it to meet other kinds of needs if you're not comfortable doing that! more that this is something for parents to think about before trying a class or club or group even with a child who doesn't adapt in typical ways.
> stretching boundaries - becoming aware of the uncertainty of the desired new
> experience and learning to adapt. I think it is a valuable learning for life
> whether it is about rules or adventure.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Bun
My family is involved with a 4-H program (gardening) that meets both inside and outside. The first time or second time we met, the black flies were biting and ds (8 yrs) decided he would go inside (we had bug nets, but no repellent on). While I made a trip to the car with my toddler, one of the leaders told him everyone inside that they had to go outside. My son went along with this, but was upset. He did not talk to her about it and didn't tell me until the program was over. Later he said that he didn't want to go back for the next meeting because he was afraid that he would be told he would have to go outside. I talked to him about different ideas in case he still might come (some of the range of ideas were: stay at Daddy's work while the rest of us go, participate only in inside activities, not go at all, go after black fly season, wear bug repellent and long pants and sleeves and a bug net, etc). I also called the leaders ahead of time to explain that he didn't want to participate in the outside part at all if he felt uncomfortable about the bugs and asked if it was okay if he came and only participated in the inside parts of the program. I thought I should ask them for permission since what he might want to do might differ from what was expected and anticipated and also I wouldn't want my son to influence others to stay inside if the group is doing outside activities. Turned out that the leaders were understanding. When it came time to do some outdoor activities, they asked him if he wanted to do specific things, but didn't push it. Li seemed comfortable with this too. He did opt to do some things outside and thankfully the bugs were much less bothersome. Laurie
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/16/2010 10:38 AM, plaidpanties666 wrote:
doing things their own way, it pays to take advantage of "try-it"
offers. A karate studio will let you try it out for a day or a week or
even two. A boy scout troop will probably let you vist as a guest one
day. Etc.
-pam
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> more that this is something for parents to think about before trying aFor kids who are more tentative or less flexible or more insistent on
> class or club or group even with a child who doesn't adapt in typical
> ways.
doing things their own way, it pays to take advantage of "try-it"
offers. A karate studio will let you try it out for a day or a week or
even two. A boy scout troop will probably let you vist as a guest one
day. Etc.
-pam
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almadoing
--- In [email protected], Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@...> wrote:
A dear friend of mine stayed recently. She is a schoolteacher, of up to 8s, and takes a keen, warm and respectful interest in our unschooling. While she has always been impressed by our 7 year old, and has always said she feels what we do is right for him, I had the distinct impression she doesn't feel like this about our 5 year old. He seems much more aimless and she said she felt he might really enjoy group activities but she couldn't see him listening or taking instruction easily. This echoes something my neighbour said about how her son's teachers would have a hard job "breaking" my son if he went to school.
My concern is that as he gets older it will get even harder for him to do group activites. He rarely joins in a group activity when there is an opportunity, and turns down anything I suggest. My 7 year old has no desire for any group activity either but he is very engaged with lots of interests. Whereas I can see my 7 year old accepting a rulebound group at some point, when it is a way to pursue an interest, I feel I might be unwittingly narrowing my 5 year olds options.
Has anyone else dealt with this?
Alison
DS(7) and DS(5)
>This jumped out at me as I have been wondering if I am doing my children (aged 7 and 5) a disservice by not "making" them join any group.
>
> My impression now is that living in an environment with very few rules, the
> children genuinely had no clue how to cope with rules imposed by people they
> didn't already know well enough. It wasn't so much as they didn't want, as
> it was a whole new array of considerations beyond what they were used to.
> Vidyut
A dear friend of mine stayed recently. She is a schoolteacher, of up to 8s, and takes a keen, warm and respectful interest in our unschooling. While she has always been impressed by our 7 year old, and has always said she feels what we do is right for him, I had the distinct impression she doesn't feel like this about our 5 year old. He seems much more aimless and she said she felt he might really enjoy group activities but she couldn't see him listening or taking instruction easily. This echoes something my neighbour said about how her son's teachers would have a hard job "breaking" my son if he went to school.
My concern is that as he gets older it will get even harder for him to do group activites. He rarely joins in a group activity when there is an opportunity, and turns down anything I suggest. My 7 year old has no desire for any group activity either but he is very engaged with lots of interests. Whereas I can see my 7 year old accepting a rulebound group at some point, when it is a way to pursue an interest, I feel I might be unwittingly narrowing my 5 year olds options.
Has anyone else dealt with this?
Alison
DS(7) and DS(5)
Robin Bentley
>I think it takes stepping back from what schoolteachers and neighbors
> A dear friend of mine stayed recently. She is a schoolteacher, of up
> to 8s, and takes a keen, warm and respectful interest in our
> unschooling. While she has always been impressed by our 7 year old,
> and has always said she feels what we do is right for him, I had the
> distinct impression she doesn't feel like this about our 5 year old.
> He seems much more aimless and she said she felt he might really
> enjoy group activities but she couldn't see him listening or taking
> instruction easily. This echoes something my neighbour said about
> how her son's teachers would have a hard job "breaking" my son if he
> went to school.
say about your children and seeing them directly.
Some kids like group activities. Some don't. Some, as they grow older,
come to enjoy group stuff. But it's really important to allow your
kids *their* way of learning, while providing them opportunities to
step out in new directions.
>Have you asked your 5 year old what he wants to do? Maybe he just
> My concern is that as he gets older it will get even harder for him
> to do group activites. He rarely joins in a group activity when
> there is an opportunity, and turns down anything I suggest. My 7
> year old has no desire for any group activity either but he is very
> engaged with lots of interests. Whereas I can see my 7 year old
> accepting a rulebound group at some point, when it is a way to
> pursue an interest, I feel I might be unwittingly narrowing my 5
> year olds options.
wants to be with you more? Find out. If he can't tell you, keep
offering possibilities and strew some fun things around. It's okay for
him to love just "one" thing, passionately. Perhaps he hasn't found it
yet.
http://sandradodd.com/strew/how
We can't see into the future on what will be harder or easier for our
kids. We can help them right now, where they are, with what they want
and like. We can show them what's good and fun about group activities
and they can chose. We can be okay with their wanting to pursue more
solitary interests.
When your neighbor said that her son's teachers would have a hard job
"breaking" your son, that would've been a good time to reassure
yourself that you're doing right by your son. So he won't be "broken".
So he'll be the whole of who he is.
Robin B.
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
So both your kids are happy and doing great and both do not enjoy or have any
interest in joying group activities?
They are also only 5 and 7 so very young.
Some people, who do not really know your kids that well, think that the youngest needs to be "broken"
like you do with horses, so he will obey directions and instructions from strangers ?
Are you concerned your child will need to join group activities in his future and will not be able to ?
Unless he goes to school I don't see the need for them to join group activities if it is something they do not like and enjoy.
My son does Cub Scouts and enjoys. He also does basketball and loves it.
But at 5 we did not do any of that with groups and at 7 we still need to be there with him to help if needed.
The difference is that he wants to do it.
Your children apparently do not!
Alex Polikowsky
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interest in joying group activities?
They are also only 5 and 7 so very young.
Some people, who do not really know your kids that well, think that the youngest needs to be "broken"
like you do with horses, so he will obey directions and instructions from strangers ?
Are you concerned your child will need to join group activities in his future and will not be able to ?
Unless he goes to school I don't see the need for them to join group activities if it is something they do not like and enjoy.
My son does Cub Scouts and enjoys. He also does basketball and loves it.
But at 5 we did not do any of that with groups and at 7 we still need to be there with him to help if needed.
The difference is that he wants to do it.
Your children apparently do not!
Alex Polikowsky
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Pam Sorooshian
On 6/17/2010 1:17 PM, Robin Bentley wrote:
step out of line, those are important skills for everybody. But they
don't need to be learned in structured group activities. That is not the
only option.
Within a family there is going to have to be give and take if
everybody's interests and needs are going to be honored. Being part of a
family IS being part of a group activity.
If a parent thinks a kid isn't getting a good sense of how to behave in
a group, maybe they just aren't getting out much? Every time we go to
the movies, for example, my kids were learning to be considerate to
others (either by me coaching them or by the rude examples of others).
We often did little one-time things - like sitting and watching a demo
at a science museum. They even learned to raise their hands when they
wanted to respond to a question.
On the other hand, unschooled kids are far more likely to question
authority and to assume something is okay for them to do and to just
stop doing something if they aren't interested in continuing it. This
can come across as undisciplined to people who expect kids to be quite
obedient and unquestioning.
I'm interested in what Vidyut's husband thought - I agree that I've seem
some of that, too, where it seems like the parents are overly
uncomfortable with their kids having a hard time with something. To
constantly ask if a kid wants to stop or if they need help or does that
hurt or is this too hard, etc., seems like it has to be undermining to a
kid's confidence. I've seen parents remind a kid three or four times
within in an hour, "You don't have to do this if you don't want to."
This happens when they see their kid struggling or feeling frustrated,
but I've seen parents anticipate that before it has actually happened.
I think most unschooled kids probably know they don't have to do it. The
parents are reacting to their own experience as a child who knew they
DID have to do whatever they were given to do. Again, no hard and fast
rule. I can imagine a child who might feel pressured and need to hear
that it was okay to stop, but I agree with Vidyut and her husband that
kids also need some support for sticking to something, too, not
too-quick encouragement to give up.
Anyway, we did do group activities - storytime at the library, tours
with our homeschooling group - that weren't ongoing commitments and we
could just leave if things weren't working out well. That is the kind of
thing I'd recommend starting with when kids are little and sticking with
for kids who have a harder time in groups. There are zillions of
opportunities like that.
-pam
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> Some kids like group activities. Some don't. Some, as they grow older,Learning to get along in society, knowing when to go along and when to
> come to enjoy group stuff. But it's really important to allow your
> kids *their* way of learning, while providing them opportunities to
> step out in new directions.
step out of line, those are important skills for everybody. But they
don't need to be learned in structured group activities. That is not the
only option.
Within a family there is going to have to be give and take if
everybody's interests and needs are going to be honored. Being part of a
family IS being part of a group activity.
If a parent thinks a kid isn't getting a good sense of how to behave in
a group, maybe they just aren't getting out much? Every time we go to
the movies, for example, my kids were learning to be considerate to
others (either by me coaching them or by the rude examples of others).
We often did little one-time things - like sitting and watching a demo
at a science museum. They even learned to raise their hands when they
wanted to respond to a question.
On the other hand, unschooled kids are far more likely to question
authority and to assume something is okay for them to do and to just
stop doing something if they aren't interested in continuing it. This
can come across as undisciplined to people who expect kids to be quite
obedient and unquestioning.
I'm interested in what Vidyut's husband thought - I agree that I've seem
some of that, too, where it seems like the parents are overly
uncomfortable with their kids having a hard time with something. To
constantly ask if a kid wants to stop or if they need help or does that
hurt or is this too hard, etc., seems like it has to be undermining to a
kid's confidence. I've seen parents remind a kid three or four times
within in an hour, "You don't have to do this if you don't want to."
This happens when they see their kid struggling or feeling frustrated,
but I've seen parents anticipate that before it has actually happened.
I think most unschooled kids probably know they don't have to do it. The
parents are reacting to their own experience as a child who knew they
DID have to do whatever they were given to do. Again, no hard and fast
rule. I can imagine a child who might feel pressured and need to hear
that it was okay to stop, but I agree with Vidyut and her husband that
kids also need some support for sticking to something, too, not
too-quick encouragement to give up.
Anyway, we did do group activities - storytime at the library, tours
with our homeschooling group - that weren't ongoing commitments and we
could just leave if things weren't working out well. That is the kind of
thing I'd recommend starting with when kids are little and sticking with
for kids who have a harder time in groups. There are zillions of
opportunities like that.
-pam
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Robin Bentley
>Yes, that's good advice.
> Anyway, we did do group activities - storytime at the library, tours
> with our homeschooling group - that weren't ongoing commitments and we
> could just leave if things weren't working out well. That is the
> kind of
> thing I'd recommend starting with when kids are little and sticking
> with
> for kids who have a harder time in groups. There are zillions of
> opportunities like that.
We also did a lot of group activities when Senna was little. We did
gymnastics, riding, naturalists club, pottery class, dance class,
family camp, beach days, gym days, park days, field trips. Some of
those were totally optional, a few were regularly-scheduled things.
When Senna had difficulty in some of the optional situations, we
should have left and we didn't. That was my fault. There are a few
things I regret about our early homeschooling/unschooling life:
expecting her to act like every other kid; not leaving when things
weren't working out well for her; and going to too many group
activities that she was not ready for nor interested in. I tried to
make her into someone she wasn't, when if I'd taken it more slowly and
mindfully, I would have been more open to other ways to help her in
those situations.
As she's gotten older, Senna (15) knows what's expected in group
situations and yet still struggles at times. She has that "hair-
trigger" emotional response we've talked about. She generally knows
how to deal with that, but sometimes still needs assistance. In any
case, she most often chooses time with a few friends over group
settings. She is sociable with adults, a good friend, and fun to be
with. *And* she'd most often rather have alone time to work on her
games, sculpting, reading and socializing on Facebook <g>.
Robin B.
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/17/2010 2:47 PM, Robin Bentley wrote:
doesn't need to try them all while she's a child.
-pam
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> *And* she'd most often rather have alone time to work on herAND she has her whole lifetime ahead of her to try out activities - she
> games, sculpting, reading and socializing on Facebook <g>.
doesn't need to try them all while she's a child.
-pam
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plaidpanties666
Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@> wrote:
My dd doesn't have many rules in her home environment and never has, really, but she's very well aware of rules in the rest of the world. We don't live in a bubble. Shops and libraries, cars and cinemas all have rules. She's tried a few classes here and there and its not the rules she objects to (its being treated the way most adults treat children). When she visits friends and relatives with or without a parent she's very comfortable with following other people's rules.
My stepson struggles more with rules - he has more baggage around them. He's had years of school at home and public school and living with his bio mom who has lots and lots of rules and shoulds so when he runs into a rule its still sometimes his first impulse to fight against it. To some extent that depends on where he's been and what he's been doing recently - when he's here or hanging out with his adult friends he's more easy going about other people's rules, but when he's been visiting his mom or relatives or working for someone with lots of rules he gets testy and resistant.
"almadoing" <almadoing@...> wrote:
Would that be a crisis? He might find the sorts of structured group activities for kids difficult, but not the same sorts of activities done with friends, or in a less structured environment - or even in a structured environment for adults. My 8yo, who dislikes being treated the way people treat children, enjoys going to group activities for adults, for instance. She also enjoys group activites when the participants are unschooling kids ;)
There are plenty of things I don't do as a planned group activity that I enjoy doing solo, or with friends - sports is a good example. I learned to loathe team sports in school and thought I was terrible at them, only to discover I'm really more ept than I knew. When I play with a group of friends, my natural abilities come out much more strongly than in a class or competitive environment.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
> > My impression now is that living in an environment with very few rules, theIts good to keep in mind that the above is written by someone with an infant - someone still trying to wrap her mind around unschooling, not an experienced unschooling parent.
> > children genuinely had no clue how to cope with rules imposed by people they
> > didn't already know well enough. It wasn't so much as they didn't want, as
> > it was a whole new array of considerations beyond what they were used to.
My dd doesn't have many rules in her home environment and never has, really, but she's very well aware of rules in the rest of the world. We don't live in a bubble. Shops and libraries, cars and cinemas all have rules. She's tried a few classes here and there and its not the rules she objects to (its being treated the way most adults treat children). When she visits friends and relatives with or without a parent she's very comfortable with following other people's rules.
My stepson struggles more with rules - he has more baggage around them. He's had years of school at home and public school and living with his bio mom who has lots and lots of rules and shoulds so when he runs into a rule its still sometimes his first impulse to fight against it. To some extent that depends on where he's been and what he's been doing recently - when he's here or hanging out with his adult friends he's more easy going about other people's rules, but when he's been visiting his mom or relatives or working for someone with lots of rules he gets testy and resistant.
"almadoing" <almadoing@...> wrote:
>our 5 year old. He seems much more aimless and she said she felt he might really enjoy group activities but she couldn't see him listening or taking instruction easily....*******************
>
> My concern is that as he gets older it will get even harder for him to do group activites.
Would that be a crisis? He might find the sorts of structured group activities for kids difficult, but not the same sorts of activities done with friends, or in a less structured environment - or even in a structured environment for adults. My 8yo, who dislikes being treated the way people treat children, enjoys going to group activities for adults, for instance. She also enjoys group activites when the participants are unschooling kids ;)
There are plenty of things I don't do as a planned group activity that I enjoy doing solo, or with friends - sports is a good example. I learned to loathe team sports in school and thought I was terrible at them, only to discover I'm really more ept than I knew. When I play with a group of friends, my natural abilities come out much more strongly than in a class or competitive environment.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/17/2010 5:10 PM, plaidpanties666 wrote:
fact, because they've chosen to opt in, knowing there are rules, they
are FAR more likely to follow rules than the rest of the kids,
typically. Mine are frequently still surprised by how other kids try to
sneak around rules.
On the other hand, my kid are fairly sensitive to being barked at or
talked to in a demeaning manner and by far THE most common reason
they've opted out of activities has been that the adult in charge wasn't
"nice."
-pam
> My dd doesn't have many rules in her home environment and never has,My older kids and other unschooled kids I know are like this, too. In
> really, but she's very well aware of rules in the rest of the world.
> We don't live in a bubble. Shops and libraries, cars and cinemas all
> have rules. She's tried a few classes here and there and its not the
> rules she objects to (its being treated the way most adults treat
> children). When she visits friends and relatives with or without a
> parent she's very comfortable with following other people's rules.
fact, because they've chosen to opt in, knowing there are rules, they
are FAR more likely to follow rules than the rest of the kids,
typically. Mine are frequently still surprised by how other kids try to
sneak around rules.
On the other hand, my kid are fairly sensitive to being barked at or
talked to in a demeaning manner and by far THE most common reason
they've opted out of activities has been that the adult in charge wasn't
"nice."
-pam
Cara Barlow
***She's tried a few classes here and there and its not the rules she
objects to (its being treated the way most adults treat children). When she
visits friends and relatives with or without a parent she's very comfortable
with following other people's rules. ***
This describes my younger daughter to a T. Actually both daughters, but the
older one (now 14yo) will put up with irritating adults occasionally if she
has to tolerate them to be with her friends - for her, friends sometimes
outweigh the adult BS factor.
My younger daughter went for three months of first grade, and then we
homeschooled, moving to unschooling after a couple of years. She's now 12
years old. She's always refused to do group sports or swim lessons or camps
because she doesn't like the way the adults treat the kids.But she does play
the violin pretty seriously and loves violin lessons and orchestra. And
she's an enthusiastic member of a youth theater company. Both activities
with a lot of rules.
When she and her older sister were in Girl Scouts I first volunteered as the
extra parent, and then became the co-leader. Between the two of them I did
Girl Scouts for six years. I was that involved so that I could influence the
troop's activities and help a kid (not always mine!) if they were having a
hard time. We're still friends with many of those girls, thought we don't
see them much as they're all in school and everyone's busy.
Best wishes, Cara
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objects to (its being treated the way most adults treat children). When she
visits friends and relatives with or without a parent she's very comfortable
with following other people's rules. ***
This describes my younger daughter to a T. Actually both daughters, but the
older one (now 14yo) will put up with irritating adults occasionally if she
has to tolerate them to be with her friends - for her, friends sometimes
outweigh the adult BS factor.
My younger daughter went for three months of first grade, and then we
homeschooled, moving to unschooling after a couple of years. She's now 12
years old. She's always refused to do group sports or swim lessons or camps
because she doesn't like the way the adults treat the kids.But she does play
the violin pretty seriously and loves violin lessons and orchestra. And
she's an enthusiastic member of a youth theater company. Both activities
with a lot of rules.
When she and her older sister were in Girl Scouts I first volunteered as the
extra parent, and then became the co-leader. Between the two of them I did
Girl Scouts for six years. I was that involved so that I could influence the
troop's activities and help a kid (not always mine!) if they were having a
hard time. We're still friends with many of those girls, thought we don't
see them much as they're all in school and everyone's busy.
Best wishes, Cara
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Sandra Dodd
-=-> My concern is that as he gets older it will get even harder for
him to do group activites.
*******************
-=-Would that be a crisis?-=-
Good point! And if it's hard for a young child to do group
activities, how much harder would his life be if he were in school?
It's not an unschooling issue, really; it's a compassion issue.
Some adults don't like to go out in public. Most of them suffered
through school trauma and taunting that probably have made their adult
situation much worse.
Sandra
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him to do group activites.
*******************
-=-Would that be a crisis?-=-
Good point! And if it's hard for a young child to do group
activities, how much harder would his life be if he were in school?
It's not an unschooling issue, really; it's a compassion issue.
Some adults don't like to go out in public. Most of them suffered
through school trauma and taunting that probably have made their adult
situation much worse.
Sandra
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