guilt, shame, remorse
Sandra Dodd
Long and more about language and ideas than about practical
unschooling, so feel free to skip it.
=======================================
In Monday's chat the topic turned somehow to "guilt and shame," and
whether they were natural or were put on people from outside.
There have been bits of discussion about that here too; I've been in a
couple of good conversations about it.
I think they're natural, and have to do with regret and disappointment
about having marred one's social standing (thinking in the most basic
'caveman' terms). I proposed on Monday that even a hermit could feel
ashamed if he did something harmful to live or property in some
careless way.
Today the word-of-the-day word is "connote." I don't like their
definition at all. I think "denote" names or points at, and
"connote" makes a more shaded connection, with judgment. I don't
think a connotation goes both ways.
But anyway...
The example they used is "guilt connotes remorse." I don't think so
at all. But it did introduce "remorse" to my thought swirl.
One can have remorse without being guilty (in a way). Even if some
incident isn't "my fault," I could still feel great remorse at my
having been there, and regret that I hadn't been able to do anything
about it. And maybe I'm stretching "remorse" too far.
In Catholic sin-absolving process (Frank or someone can correct me if
I screw this up), it's not enough to confess. There must be
contrition. I think of "contrition" as humble regret, or as remorse.
Remorse doesn't necessarily include embarrassment. Contrition
should. And then there's penance. (Remorse can last a lifetime
without hope of penance.)
I like it when I'm already pondering something and another clue is
dropped on me.
Sandra
Visual Thesaurus Word of the Day: connote
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unschooling, so feel free to skip it.
=======================================
In Monday's chat the topic turned somehow to "guilt and shame," and
whether they were natural or were put on people from outside.
There have been bits of discussion about that here too; I've been in a
couple of good conversations about it.
I think they're natural, and have to do with regret and disappointment
about having marred one's social standing (thinking in the most basic
'caveman' terms). I proposed on Monday that even a hermit could feel
ashamed if he did something harmful to live or property in some
careless way.
Today the word-of-the-day word is "connote." I don't like their
definition at all. I think "denote" names or points at, and
"connote" makes a more shaded connection, with judgment. I don't
think a connotation goes both ways.
But anyway...
The example they used is "guilt connotes remorse." I don't think so
at all. But it did introduce "remorse" to my thought swirl.
One can have remorse without being guilty (in a way). Even if some
incident isn't "my fault," I could still feel great remorse at my
having been there, and regret that I hadn't been able to do anything
about it. And maybe I'm stretching "remorse" too far.
In Catholic sin-absolving process (Frank or someone can correct me if
I screw this up), it's not enough to confess. There must be
contrition. I think of "contrition" as humble regret, or as remorse.
Remorse doesn't necessarily include embarrassment. Contrition
should. And then there's penance. (Remorse can last a lifetime
without hope of penance.)
I like it when I'm already pondering something and another clue is
dropped on me.
Sandra
Visual Thesaurus Word of the Day: connote
> connotehttp://www.visualthesaurus.com/?word=connote
> When two things are so closely related as to be inseparable (such as
> cause and effect) you can say that one connotes the other, as guilt
> connotes remorse. From this meaning is derived the related one of
> "convey in addition to exact explicit meaning." The derived noun
> connotation is nearly always related to this sense.
>
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Sandra Dodd
From another topic:
-=-I have a running audience in my head to keep my thoughts more
clear... Prominent unschooling voices that I've been reading for
years, my mom and my sister, my dad, my husband, my children, and a
couple of very traditional parents who I love and a couple of
traditional parents who I have zero respect for. Almost everything I
write is geared to that audience in some way or another even if they
all aren't my actual audience! I don't really have an audience anyway,
other than the one in my head and whoever happens to be out there
reading!-=-
That was Jenny Cyphers.
It reminded me of Freud's concept of the Super Ego, the [perhaps
judgmental] audience in our heads.
Maybe that's why a hermit can feel remorse, because he has ideals.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-I have a running audience in my head to keep my thoughts more
clear... Prominent unschooling voices that I've been reading for
years, my mom and my sister, my dad, my husband, my children, and a
couple of very traditional parents who I love and a couple of
traditional parents who I have zero respect for. Almost everything I
write is geared to that audience in some way or another even if they
all aren't my actual audience! I don't really have an audience anyway,
other than the one in my head and whoever happens to be out there
reading!-=-
That was Jenny Cyphers.
It reminded me of Freud's concept of the Super Ego, the [perhaps
judgmental] audience in our heads.
Maybe that's why a hermit can feel remorse, because he has ideals.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***It reminded me of Freud's concept of the Super Ego, the [perhaps
judgmental] audience in our heads.
Maybe that's why a hermit can feel remorse, because he has ideals.***
I think too, that we are our own worst critics! I feel very deeply when I've done things that I don't like, while, for others, it's a minor blip on the radar of life! Just like how I really hate most of my artwork when I'm done with it, and sometimes can't even bring myself to look at it for a loooong time. After enough time has passed I can like it. Same goes with mistakes or remorse.. with enough passing of time the intensity of feeling dissipates.
I'm less hung up about guilt and remorse than I am about the repeating of the things that causes it!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
judgmental] audience in our heads.
Maybe that's why a hermit can feel remorse, because he has ideals.***
I think too, that we are our own worst critics! I feel very deeply when I've done things that I don't like, while, for others, it's a minor blip on the radar of life! Just like how I really hate most of my artwork when I'm done with it, and sometimes can't even bring myself to look at it for a loooong time. After enough time has passed I can like it. Same goes with mistakes or remorse.. with enough passing of time the intensity of feeling dissipates.
I'm less hung up about guilt and remorse than I am about the repeating of the things that causes it!
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Kelly Halldorson
++++++++++
In Monday's chat the topic turned somehow to "guilt and shame," and
whether they were natural or were put on people from outside.
There have been bits of discussion about that here too; I've been in a
couple of good conversations about it.
++++++++++
I would like to extend this discussion to how it directly connects to unschooling. Less about language and more about as it relates to unschooling?
Is it/should it be a goal of unschooling parents to raise a child in a guilt-free environment? And/or attempt to raise a child that does not feel guilt and/or remorse?
Peace,
Kelly
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In Monday's chat the topic turned somehow to "guilt and shame," and
whether they were natural or were put on people from outside.
There have been bits of discussion about that here too; I've been in a
couple of good conversations about it.
++++++++++
I would like to extend this discussion to how it directly connects to unschooling. Less about language and more about as it relates to unschooling?
Is it/should it be a goal of unschooling parents to raise a child in a guilt-free environment? And/or attempt to raise a child that does not feel guilt and/or remorse?
Peace,
Kelly
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest . Unsubscribe . Terms of Use.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Su Penn
On Jul 12, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Kelly Halldorson wrote:
But raising kids who recognize that remorse is part of a natural process, that doing something you feel remorseful about isn't the end of the world, and who can move on from that and let go of it--that is something I do hope for them. I used to have a really hard time letting go of my mistakes, and it's no way to live.
Su
mom to Eric, 9; Carl, 6; Yehva, almost 3
tapeflags.blogspot.com
> Is it/should it be a goal of unschooling parents to raise a child in a guilt-free environment? And/or attempt to raise a child that does not feel guilt and/or remorse?Oh, heavens no! One of the big things that has happened for Eric in a recent huge developmental jump (he does it that way--changes very fast all of a sudden, has since he was a baby) is that he now more deeply feels and more easily expresses remorse when he does something that hurts or inconveniences someone else, or creates conflict. It's healthy to feel remorse or guilt when things like that happen.
But raising kids who recognize that remorse is part of a natural process, that doing something you feel remorseful about isn't the end of the world, and who can move on from that and let go of it--that is something I do hope for them. I used to have a really hard time letting go of my mistakes, and it's no way to live.
Su
mom to Eric, 9; Carl, 6; Yehva, almost 3
tapeflags.blogspot.com
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 12, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Kelly Halldorson wrote:
it.
Whether it's natural or not, the less guilt the parents can impose on
kids, the better for unschooling. The more parents are aware of how
their actions and words can create guilt and shame, the better for
unschooling.
feel anger? How would that be possible? Why would an unschooler want
to try to control her child's feelings?
We can't control how others (our kids) feel, but we can control our
own actions that unnecessarily cause a child to feel bad about himself
and find better ways.
Joyce
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> Is it/should it be a goal of unschooling parents to raise a child inIf guilt is natural, it would be contorting reality to try to prevent
> a guilt-free environment?
it.
Whether it's natural or not, the less guilt the parents can impose on
kids, the better for unschooling. The more parents are aware of how
their actions and words can create guilt and shame, the better for
unschooling.
> And/or attempt to raise a child that does not feel guilt and/orCould we raise kids who don't feel love? Or don't feel hate? Or don't
> remorse?
feel anger? How would that be possible? Why would an unschooler want
to try to control her child's feelings?
We can't control how others (our kids) feel, but we can control our
own actions that unnecessarily cause a child to feel bad about himself
and find better ways.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]