summertime kids
Liz Struk
in regards to the dad wanting no friends over - my first thought was I remember how I resented the way my parents made our friends leave when my dad was coming home. BUT my parents didn't interact with us kids at home the way we do now w/ our kids. We tell our kids "today is a family day" all the time and they have no problem with it, because we're doing things together, even if it's just vegging on the couch, eating snacks and watching a movie together. On nice days, we're swimming together. My husband and son do a lot of yard work together, go 4-wheeling together, play X-box together, run to Home Depot, etc, together. They get their friend time too, but lots of family time, and it seems a good balance. But I do find I have to be very strict with saying when friend time is up - the kids will beg and plead like they're dying (no matter how much time they've recently spent w/ the friends - it's never enough - it can be a 4-day sleepover, and
it's not enough). But when the cut is made, and we're home spending the family time, all is well... it's like dragging a kid from a birthday party - it's a struggle to get them to leave, but it settles down once they're away from the festivities.
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it's not enough). But when the cut is made, and we're home spending the family time, all is well... it's like dragging a kid from a birthday party - it's a struggle to get them to leave, but it settles down once they're away from the festivities.
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keetry
== We tell our kids "today is a family day" all the time and they have no problem with it, because we're doing things together ==
That's part of the solution. Make time with the family fun. But what do you do if the child gets so upset about not being able to play with friends (even if he's been playing with them almost all day) that he refuses to do anything with the family? And it's not acceptable to the parent to go into a private room while the kids play in a different part of the house? Do you still force the parents' wishes on the child or do you accept that at this moment the child's desires are more pressing than the parents?
I'm thinking, in the big scheme of things, adults have a better understanding that there is time for many things and there are several options to any given situation. So it's up to the parents to find ways to get their needs met without imposing on their children. If one parent decides that this time is family time and insists that it be that way in spite of disagreement from other family members, that's not very unschooly, is it?
I guess I'm asking where you draw the line between what the child wants and what the parent wants when an agreement cannot be worked out.
Alysia
That's part of the solution. Make time with the family fun. But what do you do if the child gets so upset about not being able to play with friends (even if he's been playing with them almost all day) that he refuses to do anything with the family? And it's not acceptable to the parent to go into a private room while the kids play in a different part of the house? Do you still force the parents' wishes on the child or do you accept that at this moment the child's desires are more pressing than the parents?
I'm thinking, in the big scheme of things, adults have a better understanding that there is time for many things and there are several options to any given situation. So it's up to the parents to find ways to get their needs met without imposing on their children. If one parent decides that this time is family time and insists that it be that way in spite of disagreement from other family members, that's not very unschooly, is it?
I guess I'm asking where you draw the line between what the child wants and what the parent wants when an agreement cannot be worked out.
Alysia
wtexans
===If one parent decides that this time is family time and insists that it be that way in spite of disagreement from other family members, that's not very unschooly, is it?===
No, it's pretty disrespectful.
If that's the dynamics, it won't create an environment in which a child will be willing to stop what he's doing with friends to spend time with a parent who wants to control how everyone's time is spent.
===But what do you do if the child gets so upset about not being able to play with friends (even if he's been playing with them almost all day) that he refuses to do anything with the family?===
You can force the family time, but you can't force enjoyment.
There has to be some sort of positive connection to "family time" for a child to want to step away from what their already enjoying. Even then, the transition itself from one to the other may not always be enjoyable, but if the time being spent with the family *is*, then things will balance back out.
===And it's not acceptable to the parent to go into a private room while the kids play in a different part of the house?===
There's *nothing* that can be done to make that an acceptable option?
So even in a communal room of the house, if the kids are playing in your son's room with the door closed, that's still too noisy?
The only option (in your hubby's mind) is that the friends not be in the house?
===I guess I'm asking where you draw the line between what the child wants and what the parent wants when an agreement cannot be worked out.===
If you draw a line, at least one person is going to be unhappy, and that's not going to create a positive relationship between parent(s) and child.
If a parent expects a child to respect the parent's desire for family time, the parent needs to show respect for the child's desire for time with friends.
Rather than approaching it from the perspective of "I'm home from work so we will spend time together now", maybe your husband could build up his relationship with your son by going into your son's room (after your son's friends are gone) and showing an interest in whatever he's doing -- in a way that reflects that he's interested in spending time with his son in whatever way is interesting to his son. Not even necessarily doing things together, rather just being in the same room.
It shouldn't be a situation of "your friends OR me"; spend time with him after his friends are gone.
Your hubby might get more bang for his buck by telling your son, "I enjoy your company and would like to do something with you this week (or this weekend). What would you like us to do together that would be fun for you?".
Glenda
No, it's pretty disrespectful.
If that's the dynamics, it won't create an environment in which a child will be willing to stop what he's doing with friends to spend time with a parent who wants to control how everyone's time is spent.
===But what do you do if the child gets so upset about not being able to play with friends (even if he's been playing with them almost all day) that he refuses to do anything with the family?===
You can force the family time, but you can't force enjoyment.
There has to be some sort of positive connection to "family time" for a child to want to step away from what their already enjoying. Even then, the transition itself from one to the other may not always be enjoyable, but if the time being spent with the family *is*, then things will balance back out.
===And it's not acceptable to the parent to go into a private room while the kids play in a different part of the house?===
There's *nothing* that can be done to make that an acceptable option?
So even in a communal room of the house, if the kids are playing in your son's room with the door closed, that's still too noisy?
The only option (in your hubby's mind) is that the friends not be in the house?
===I guess I'm asking where you draw the line between what the child wants and what the parent wants when an agreement cannot be worked out.===
If you draw a line, at least one person is going to be unhappy, and that's not going to create a positive relationship between parent(s) and child.
If a parent expects a child to respect the parent's desire for family time, the parent needs to show respect for the child's desire for time with friends.
Rather than approaching it from the perspective of "I'm home from work so we will spend time together now", maybe your husband could build up his relationship with your son by going into your son's room (after your son's friends are gone) and showing an interest in whatever he's doing -- in a way that reflects that he's interested in spending time with his son in whatever way is interesting to his son. Not even necessarily doing things together, rather just being in the same room.
It shouldn't be a situation of "your friends OR me"; spend time with him after his friends are gone.
Your hubby might get more bang for his buck by telling your son, "I enjoy your company and would like to do something with you this week (or this weekend). What would you like us to do together that would be fun for you?".
Glenda
wtexans
===We tell our kids "today is a family day" all the time and they have no problem with it, because we're doing things together, even if it's just vegging on the couch, eating snacks and watching a movie together.===
Maybe it's just the way you phrased it, but do you "tell them" (ie, it's the parents decision) or do y'all talk about it and they have input into when that family time happens???
===it's like dragging a kid from a birthday party - it's a struggle to get them to leave, but it settles down once they're away from the festivities===
There are better ways to get to the point of leaving rather than it being a parent forcing a child to leave before the child is ready. Even if the child "settles down" after leaving, not reaching the point of it being a struggle to begin with would be preferable.
===I do find I have to be very strict with saying when friend time is up - the kids will beg and plead like they're dying (no matter how much time they've recently spent w/ the friends - it's never enough - it can be a 4-day sleepover, and it's not enough)===
If you're cutting off your kids' time with their friends based on when *you* think it's been enough, you're not taking into consideration that it truly may not be enough for your kids.
If they're begging and pleading to spend more time with friends, why not let that happen??? Allow them an abundance of time with their friends . . . allow them to reach the point of saying, "Okay, we're ready for some time at home without our friends".
You and your husband can find pockets of time to spend with your kids after the friends are gone. While the friends are over, enjoy the pockets of time that gives you and your husband to spend together!
As our kids grow, we parents should be flexible about how we can comfortably fit within our kids' lives. My husband and I often adapt how we spend time with our son. There are things we ask if he's interested in doing with us (camping trips, going swimming, going fishing, going to the movies, playing video games), but we don't plan those things without finding out if he's interested and we don't schedule them without checking with him to find out what he has going on.
If he had friends over and my husband and I wanted for the three of us to go do something, we would've talked about it before the friends came over and made plans accordingly. BUT my husband and I would also be flexible about those plans, so that if our son asked if we could do those plans a different day and his friend could stay over later instead, that would generally not be a problem. (I say "generally" because if we had prepurchased tickets for something for a specific time and day, we wouldn't want to cancel that unless we were all three okay with canceling it.)
Scheduled "family time" in our household is agreed-upon by all family members who will be participating. And we're all flexible about changing it if someone is involved in something they'd really rather not stop. No one person's wants are more important than another person's.
Glenda
Maybe it's just the way you phrased it, but do you "tell them" (ie, it's the parents decision) or do y'all talk about it and they have input into when that family time happens???
===it's like dragging a kid from a birthday party - it's a struggle to get them to leave, but it settles down once they're away from the festivities===
There are better ways to get to the point of leaving rather than it being a parent forcing a child to leave before the child is ready. Even if the child "settles down" after leaving, not reaching the point of it being a struggle to begin with would be preferable.
===I do find I have to be very strict with saying when friend time is up - the kids will beg and plead like they're dying (no matter how much time they've recently spent w/ the friends - it's never enough - it can be a 4-day sleepover, and it's not enough)===
If you're cutting off your kids' time with their friends based on when *you* think it's been enough, you're not taking into consideration that it truly may not be enough for your kids.
If they're begging and pleading to spend more time with friends, why not let that happen??? Allow them an abundance of time with their friends . . . allow them to reach the point of saying, "Okay, we're ready for some time at home without our friends".
You and your husband can find pockets of time to spend with your kids after the friends are gone. While the friends are over, enjoy the pockets of time that gives you and your husband to spend together!
As our kids grow, we parents should be flexible about how we can comfortably fit within our kids' lives. My husband and I often adapt how we spend time with our son. There are things we ask if he's interested in doing with us (camping trips, going swimming, going fishing, going to the movies, playing video games), but we don't plan those things without finding out if he's interested and we don't schedule them without checking with him to find out what he has going on.
If he had friends over and my husband and I wanted for the three of us to go do something, we would've talked about it before the friends came over and made plans accordingly. BUT my husband and I would also be flexible about those plans, so that if our son asked if we could do those plans a different day and his friend could stay over later instead, that would generally not be a problem. (I say "generally" because if we had prepurchased tickets for something for a specific time and day, we wouldn't want to cancel that unless we were all three okay with canceling it.)
Scheduled "family time" in our household is agreed-upon by all family members who will be participating. And we're all flexible about changing it if someone is involved in something they'd really rather not stop. No one person's wants are more important than another person's.
Glenda
k
>>>I do find I have to be very strict with saying when friend time is up -the kids will beg and plead like they're dying (no matter how much time
they've recently spent w/ the friends - it's never enough - it can be a
4-day sleepover, and it's not enough)<<<
I don't know what it looks like at home. Is being with mom and dad pleasant,
fun and sweet? What's the connection like in those relationships? Are the
parents expecting the children to contribute to the maintenance and care of
that connection?
If the parents feel that their care is adequate but not full and overflowing
and abundant then maybe it's not enough.
I have no idea. I'm not there. The above are points to ponder because I'm
getting signals that the parents who want the best for their children in
some ways have perhaps never thought there might be others areas in their
children's lives that they haven't considered.
For one thing, it worries me to hear the kids being referred to so much en
masse rather than up close and personal as individuals. The use of the words
"we" and "family time" have the same effect.
One of the biggest reasons for inexplicable conflict in the family is
unacknowledged individual needs. And pretty soon the kids don't see
themselves as individuals but part of a herd. Is that what people have in
mind when they first hold their precious infants?
~Katherine
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Liz
--- In [email protected], "keetry" <keetry@...> wrote:
>this hasn't really happened to us, and I'm trying to think of why. They have definitely gotten upset at the moment we're saying "it's time to come in", "it's family dinner time", "today we're doing x,y,z", but we're certainly flexible... ie: son wanted a tree house, so dh says we'll build one together, they start and w/in 2 minutes neighbor friends are calling son, son says can I go play? DH says yes, the tree house can wait. It's not like "NO! No friends, only father/son time like we said!" So the kids get their "fill" of friends, because we make an effort for their social peer time, especially now because we homeschool. But after I had their cousins sleep over for 4 days straight, it was time for an end to that play session, no matter the fuss any of them made. The other parents wanted to see their kids, and I wanted my house back for a few days. And even though the kids all made a fuss it was ending, when everyone left and the dust settled, both my kids said they were glad it was over and our house was quiet and just us. This seems to happen a lot (where the kids are fussing in the moment, but are glad when the cut is made).
> == We tell our kids "today is a family day" all the time and they have no problem with it, because we're doing things together ==
>
> But what do you do if the child gets so upset about not being able to play with friends (even if he's been playing with them almost all day) that he refuses to do anything with the family?
>hmmm... my kids are only 10 and 8, so maybe we're not "there" yet. We've probably either given in (we as the parents), or the kids are just still young enough to not hold a grudge so we seem to always be able to work out an agreement. Maybe when they get older, this will change(?)
> I guess I'm asking where you draw the line between what the child wants and what the parent wants when an agreement cannot be worked out.
Liz
--- In [email protected], "wtexans" <wtexans@...> wrote:
we don't schedule them without checking with him to find out what he has going on.
maybe our kids are very different ages(?)... my son is 8, so I don't have to ask him if he has anything going on... it's already on my mom calendar if he does.
Liz :)
>The kids have a big "say" in what our days look like, so maybe that's why they're OK when it's family day. We're very flexible and would scrap a family day if something that's *important* to one of the kids comes up. And on the flip side, if we've planned something, and the neighbor next door who my son sees all the time comes over, I'll say "no" if the family time has some sort of great importance at that particular moment, knim? The kids have a good balance between friend and family time. It's finding the balance - giving the kids options within reasonable boundries - their options are not limitless.
> ===We tell our kids "today is a family day" all the time and they have no problem with it, because we're doing things together, even if it's just vegging on the couch, eating snacks and watching a movie together.===
>
> Maybe it's just the way you phrased it, but do you "tell them" (ie, it's the parents decision) or do y'all talk about it and they have input into when that family time happens???
> ===it's like dragging a kid from a birthday party - it's a struggle to get them to leave, but it settles down once they're away from the festivities===You bet it would be preferable! But with my son, it's simply not going to happen. He would have us stay at the park on "park day" until midnight... I cannot do that. Anything before that is a struggle. We are most always the last family to leave any event, and when the parents who are throwing the party are throwing everyone out, he's still struggling to stay.
>
> There are better ways to get to the point of leaving rather than it being a parent forcing a child to leave before the child is ready. Even if the child "settles down" after leaving, not reaching the point of it being a struggle to begin with would be preferable.
>
> ===I do find I have to be very strict with saying when friend time is up - the kids will beg and plead like they're dying (no matter how much time they've recently spent w/ the friends - it's never enough - it can be a 4-day sleepover, and it's not enough)===I don't know... 4-day sleepovers are enough. I cannot have other children moving in with us because my 8yo thinks it's a good idea. And as I wrote above (or on another post), they're happy when it's over... but they just couldn't tear themselves away and are glad someone else did it for them. I'm sure if I didn't get the positive feedback from them time and time again (that they're glad it's over), I'd have changed my ways. I definitely want my kids to have their "fill" of friends.
>
> If you're cutting off your kids' time with their friends based on when *you* think it's been enough, you're not taking into consideration that it truly may not be enough for your kids.
>
> If they're begging and pleading to spend more time with friends, why not let that happen??? Allow them an abundance of time with their friends . . . allow them to reach the point of saying, "Okay, we're ready for some time at home without our friends".
we don't schedule them without checking with him to find out what he has going on.
maybe our kids are very different ages(?)... my son is 8, so I don't have to ask him if he has anything going on... it's already on my mom calendar if he does.
Liz :)
Sandra Dodd
-=-You bet it would be preferable! But with my son, it's simply not
going to happen. He would have us stay at the park on "park day" until
midnight... I cannot do that. -=-
Even if nobody else was there he would want to stay?
Then make your house more comfortable, happy or welcoming. More
exciting than the park.
-=-Anything before that is a struggle. We are most always the last
family to leave any event, and when the parents who are throwing the
party are throwing everyone out, he's still struggling to stay.-=-
I used to say "If we don't leave, we can't come back." It would stun
the kid just long enough that I could get him out the door.
Or if a kid was really trying to stay, I would say "I think this means
he had a really good time. Thanks!" and get him out the door.
Singing helped, sometimes, if i had a kid out, and would be singing
about something--some currently-interesting song--or maybe ask them
about who was there, and what gifts there were, and what food there
was. Asking enthusiastically, so that the retelling of the party was
a continuation of the party, and I showed a lot of interest in the
stories.
Some parents express some equivalent of "get in the car; it's over."
I wouldn't want to get in that car myself.
Sandra
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going to happen. He would have us stay at the park on "park day" until
midnight... I cannot do that. -=-
Even if nobody else was there he would want to stay?
Then make your house more comfortable, happy or welcoming. More
exciting than the park.
-=-Anything before that is a struggle. We are most always the last
family to leave any event, and when the parents who are throwing the
party are throwing everyone out, he's still struggling to stay.-=-
I used to say "If we don't leave, we can't come back." It would stun
the kid just long enough that I could get him out the door.
Or if a kid was really trying to stay, I would say "I think this means
he had a really good time. Thanks!" and get him out the door.
Singing helped, sometimes, if i had a kid out, and would be singing
about something--some currently-interesting song--or maybe ask them
about who was there, and what gifts there were, and what food there
was. Asking enthusiastically, so that the retelling of the party was
a continuation of the party, and I showed a lot of interest in the
stories.
Some parents express some equivalent of "get in the car; it's over."
I wouldn't want to get in that car myself.
Sandra
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Heather
>When my daughter was younger, it was really hard for her to transition
>
> -=-Anything before that is a struggle. We are most always the last
> family to leave any event, and when the parents who are throwing the
> party are throwing everyone out, he's still struggling to stay.-=-
>
to going home. We most always made an extra stop on the way home. Once,
I remember, we bought some nailpolish, sometimes ice cream. Or made a
plan to do something exciting at home. Or brought another kid home with
us, when possible. Not that she was always happy on the way home,
sometimes she cried, but at least we tried to make it easier. The times
she cried I remember were when it was dark, leaving my brothers house,
her cousins were going to school the next day, and her dad was really
tired, needing to get up for work the next day, and didn't want to stop
on the way home. I always thought we should have had more sisters for
her, but at that point, it might have been too late, they would have
been too young! And they might not have been sisters. She was quite
upset that the two girl cousins got to be together all the time (well,
except at school), and she was the one who was going home.
Also - we had a neighbor when my son was younger, about 5, that he
wanted to spend time with as much as possible. The kid, who was 9,
wanted some time to himself sometimes, so he made some red and green
signs for the the door so my son knew when the other kid was receptive
to company.
Heather
Sandra Dodd
-=- And pretty soon the kids don't see
themselves as individuals but part of a herd. Is that what people have
in
mind when they first hold their precious infants?-=-
Well, not the first one... :-)
When we had three children, they were almost as at peace if they were
with a sibling as with a parent, like if they were at someone else's
house. Part of their family was there. (It helped that they had
tools to settle their conflicts, too, and that they liked each other.)
But we did all consider ourselves to be on the same team, the same
"herd."
I've seen families declare "family time" or "a family day" in an
almost hateful tone of voice. And I've seen kids languishing on a
"family day" because they're not allowed to go anywhere or do
anything, and their family is ignoring them or the parents really
means "parents day."
Sandra
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themselves as individuals but part of a herd. Is that what people have
in
mind when they first hold their precious infants?-=-
Well, not the first one... :-)
When we had three children, they were almost as at peace if they were
with a sibling as with a parent, like if they were at someone else's
house. Part of their family was there. (It helped that they had
tools to settle their conflicts, too, and that they liked each other.)
But we did all consider ourselves to be on the same team, the same
"herd."
I've seen families declare "family time" or "a family day" in an
almost hateful tone of voice. And I've seen kids languishing on a
"family day" because they're not allowed to go anywhere or do
anything, and their family is ignoring them or the parents really
means "parents day."
Sandra
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Pam Sorooshian
On 6/8/2010 4:52 AM, Heather wrote:
did stay - a LOT. We had 12 hour park days, every week, for years. When
it was time for a departure, it was way easier for her to be going "to"
something, rather than leaving "from" something. Time to go get ice
cream was a whole lot easier for her than, "Time to leave the park."
-pam
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> When my daughter was younger, it was really hard for her to transitionGood advice. I had one who always wanted to stay and stay and stay. We
> to going home. We most always made an extra stop on the way home. Once,
> I remember, we bought some nailpolish, sometimes ice cream. Or made a
> plan to do something exciting at home.
did stay - a LOT. We had 12 hour park days, every week, for years. When
it was time for a departure, it was way easier for her to be going "to"
something, rather than leaving "from" something. Time to go get ice
cream was a whole lot easier for her than, "Time to leave the park."
-pam
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