Kelly Halldorson

I thought the last line was really funny...

"Those are the details her children may never have the chance to forget"

Peace,
Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 6/2/2010 4:44 PM, Kelly Halldorson wrote:
> "Those are the details her children may never have the chance to forget"

Right! I couldn't believe they were going to end with that. Too cool.
Left people thinking about school as a place you go to learn and forget.

The rest wasn't great - Devon was adorable, I thought, but the overall
tone of the piece didn't do Dayna's family justice and made it seem like
unschoolers don't know what they're doing, but are just sort of vaguely
drifting through life, having a good time. Sort of a "Don't worry, be
happy," feeling that came across, I think, as not founded in any solid
reasoning.

(Not that life might not FEEL that way - and be great. But not a great
image to project on national tv if we hope to be understood.)

I wish people would just turn it down - at least this kind of thing that
follows kids around and quizzes them on multiplication facts, etc. I
wouldn't let my loving and truly concerned relatives do that and I
certainly wouldn't let the press do it. Print media - I'm more okay
with. LIVE radio and tv - better. These sort of miniature
documentary/magazine style "news" pieces - not so much.
-pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

I have really mixed feelings about this! I know that Dayna was edited to look crazy. However once you put the idea out there that "history isn't important", it's out there to be cut and edited to stand alone, regardless of what was said directly prior and directly after.

It would be so much better to focus on what unschooling is and what unschoolers do, rather than what it is not and what they don't do, if you are going to present yourself to the general public. The whole time I was watching it, I kept thinking about that.

Her oldest kid was pretty great in that piece.

The other part I had an issue with, was the UnNanny part. My first thought was "I hope the dad is on board with that". Here's the thing, for anyone willing to seek it out, the information to unschool is freely available online. Nobody needs to hire a consultant to tell them what to do with their kids. I know people do it, but it always surprises me. That whole part may have been highly edited too, I don't know, but it had very little to do with radical unschooling, even though the other mom had said her purpose was to incorporate more unschooling into their homeschooling. Part of really getting unschooling going for a parent, is thinking creatively about problem solving. What they showed in that segment was one woman pointing to another woman a creative solution to help a child do what he wants to do. What they didn't show was why the mom didn't want her child going to use the hammock. It might have been a good reason.

I guess I wish people would just stop putting themselves out to the public in forums that are going to make them seem crazy. It doesn't help unschooling.

The whole thing left me feeling kind of icky about unschooling and how it's perceived by others. What I saw didn't reflect my experiences with unschooling, even taking into account the fact that it was greatly edited. Dayna's kids are still pretty young and what she knows and talks about tends to reflect that. I'm not sure how to describe what I'm feeling...




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny Cyphers

***I thought the last line was really funny...

"Those are the details her children may never have the chance to forget"***

I liked that too, but it's probably being misinterpreted badly! As in, those poor kids won't ever have the chance to learn all that cool stuff that kids in school learn, never mind that lots of it gets forgotten.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin Bentley

>
> "Those are the details her children may never have the chance to
> forget"***
>
> I liked that too, but it's probably being misinterpreted badly! As
> in, those poor kids won't ever have the chance to learn all that
> cool stuff that kids in school learn, never mind that lots of it
> gets forgotten.
>
That's exactly how I heard it, given the kinds of questions Chang asked.

I agree with Pam - I wish people would turn down these interviews/
shows that can edit any good stuff into the producer's "point of view."

Christine Yablonski and Phil Biegler (cool New Yorkers <g>) were
speakers at the Life is Good conference here this past weekend in WA,
but I didn't get to any of their sessions. Did anyone here? If so,
what did they have to say about it?

Even though I'm a "radical unschooler" I don't say that to people who
aren't also unschoolers, if I ever talk about it. I tell "muggles"
that we homeschool and if they ask more about it, I explain a bit of
what we do or don't do, but not much. "Pass the bean dip" helps if
things get too annoying (which doesn't seem to be a problem for us
anymore, now that Senna's older and fascinating <g>).

I don't think unschooling needs this kind of "outing" anyway. It's not
like you can't find all kinds of information about it online or in
person if you are already homeschooling. Shows like this one don't
give anyone a true sense of what unschooling is, in any case. When we
talk about how the media always has an agenda, I find myself wondering
what, say, the Martins' or the Parents' agendas are? Is it to help
parents unschool, the way Sandra and Pam do? I don't know...

Robin B.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Halldorson

Robin B wrote:

>I find myself wondering
>what, say, the Martins' or the Parents' agendas are? Is it to help
>parents unschool, the way Sandra and Pam do? I don't know...

The Martins are good friends of our family. I believe strongly their intentions are good. Dayna has a very big and open heart. I genuinely love her and her family.

I don't know the Parents' although I think I've met them. They are from New Hampshire, although they now live in Texas. I'm a semi-active member of a group they belong to here in New Hampshire. I can't begin to know their motives or agenda.

I will say that I think that neither of them are looking to help parents unschool, *the way Sandra and Pam do* because...they are not Sandra or Pam.

I think Sandra is awesome...as I'm getting to know her (as much as you can in the virtual world). What she does is really unique to her.

Peace,
Kelly

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

stephanie

**I can't begin to know their motives or agenda.**

I can't speak for the Parents, but they are good friends. I think unschooling changed their lives in many positive ways and they want to share that with others.

Steph
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect

Robin Bentley

>
> The Martins are good friends of our family. I believe strongly their
> intentions are good. Dayna has a very big and open heart. I
> genuinely love her and her family.

Yes, I get that about Dayna and I know people who know her and Joe and
think very highly of them.
>
> I will say that I think that neither of them are looking to help
> parents unschool, *the way Sandra and Pam do* because...they are not
> Sandra or Pam.

Yeah, I know. They look different <BWG>.

I guess what I meant there is that Pam and Sandra (and Joyce, though
she's usually not interviewed) help people in rather quiet "internal"
ways, at conferences, in person, on lists like this, on their
websites, through their blogs. Kelly Lovejoy, Ren Allen and Rue Kream
do that, too. They speak, for the most part, directly to those parents
who want to unschool and are looking for help. They have grown
children who are, shall we say, "proof" <g>.

> I think Sandra is awesome...as I'm getting to know her (as much as
> you can in the virtual world). What she does is really unique to her.

Yes, she is unique in the way she approaches things. And the help
Sandra provides doesn't bring a lot of outside attention in the way
national television does. It's worrisome to some (perhaps many) folks
in the community that legislators may take quite a dim view of
unschooling and look to tighten up state laws that'll make both
unschooling and homeschooling more difficult, if they judge such
things from the way unschooling is being presented in the media. As
sweet and honest and even true to what goes on in a lot of unschooling
households as the media portrayal might be *to us*, there are too many
people who vociferously disagree with what we do and how we do it.
Legislators listen to those people, too.

Robin B.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin Bentley

On Jun 2, 2010, at 8:14 PM, Kelly Halldorson wrote:

> Robin B wrote:
>
>> I find myself wondering
>> what, say, the Martins' or the Parents' agendas are? Is it to help
>> parents unschool, the way Sandra and Pam do? I don't know...
>

Oh, and I meant to say that "agenda" is probably too strong a word.
Not for the media, but for unschoolers.

Perhaps "purpose" was more to the point. What someone might hope to
accomplish by going on national TV. I'm still not sure what that might
be and I'm curious.

Robin B.

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

"As
sweet and honest and even true to what goes on in a lot of unschooling
households as the media portrayal might be *to us*, there are too many
people who vociferously disagree with what we do and how we do it.
Legislators listen to those people, too."

Not only they listen to those people but there are way more people that think unschooling is crazy and
even child abuse than those who truly understand it.
I wish people would not do those big national TV shows either. I have been asked to do one and gave them a big fat no.

 
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>
> "As
> sweet and honest and even true to what goes on in a lot of unschooling
> households as the media portrayal might be *to us*, there are too many
> people who vociferously disagree with what we do and how we do it.
> Legislators listen to those people, too."
>
> Not only they�listen to those people�but there are way more people that think unschooling is crazy and
> even child abuse than those who truly understand�it.
> I wish people would not do those big national�TV shows either. I have been asked to do one and gave them a big fat no.
>
> �
> Alex Polikowsky
> http://polykow.blogspot.com/
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


Not that I'm ever likely to be asked, but I agree. I'd say no even to Oprah. There was no chance in that Nightline item to convey anything meaningful. It did mention Dayna's YouTube channel, so at least a place to go for more information if anybody was curious.

I'll be meeting Dayna and Joe in September at the inaugural Australian Unschooling Conference Retreat. I've been invited to speak at the event and will be talking about my personal experiences as they relate to unschooling but mostly about "radical" parenting and my perception of the "digital revolution". I'm looking forward to meeting some online acquaintances in person for the first time.

Bob

stephanie

***Not that I'm ever likely to be asked, but I agree. I'd say no even to Oprah. ***

I think the problem is, that if one of these interviewers appears to support unschooling, then people may see them as anti school, and who is anti school? How could a public figure such as Oprah support kids not staying in school?
Steph
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect

Rebecca M.

--- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...> wrote:

> Perhaps "purpose" was more to the point. What someone might hope to
> accomplish by going on national TV. I'm still not sure what that might
> be and I'm curious.

Dayna had a sweet post on her blog a few days ago about the interview and she wrote about feeling that she and JuJu had made a real connection, and she seemed quite optimistic that the piece would be a positive and fair representation of unschooling.

After watching the finished Nightline product yesterday, I went to the Martin's blog to see if she had posted a reaction, but the original post was gone. I have no idea what she may be feeling, but if it were me, I think I'd feel a bit betrayed on some level. Perhaps.

I suspect it's not a good idea to trust reporters... because reporters have editors, who have their own biases and agendas. And reporters, even when they are being impartial, want their story.

I'm very concerned about backlash.

- Rebecca

k

>>>As sweet and honest and even true to what goes on in a lot of unschooling
households as the media portrayal might be *to us*, there are too many
people who vociferously disagree with what we do and how we do it.
Legislators listen to those people, too.<<<

Actually they get listened to a lot more than unschoolers probably ever will
--- simply by dent of being the vast majority of people. And not just
parents, people who are not even parents will get listened to because they
are constituents whether they are actually involved or impacted by what
unschoolers/homeschooler may or may not be doing, either in their vicinity
or out of their vicinity.

The people who have something to say "vociferously" may have zero
involvement with children or interest in children except perhaps being a
proponent of what they think of as education or as a supporter of what they
think of as community or something like that.

~Katherine






On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...>wrote:

> >
> > The Martins are good friends of our family. I believe strongly their
> > intentions are good. Dayna has a very big and open heart. I
> > genuinely love her and her family.
>
> Yes, I get that about Dayna and I know people who know her and Joe and
> think very highly of them.
> >
> > I will say that I think that neither of them are looking to help
> > parents unschool, *the way Sandra and Pam do* because...they are not
> > Sandra or Pam.
>
> Yeah, I know. They look different <BWG>.
>
> I guess what I meant there is that Pam and Sandra (and Joyce, though
> she's usually not interviewed) help people in rather quiet "internal"
> ways, at conferences, in person, on lists like this, on their
> websites, through their blogs. Kelly Lovejoy, Ren Allen and Rue Kream
> do that, too. They speak, for the most part, directly to those parents
> who want to unschool and are looking for help. They have grown
> children who are, shall we say, "proof" <g>.
>
> > I think Sandra is awesome...as I'm getting to know her (as much as
> > you can in the virtual world). What she does is really unique to her.
>
> Yes, she is unique in the way she approaches things. And the help
> Sandra provides doesn't bring a lot of outside attention in the way
> national television does. It's worrisome to some (perhaps many) folks
> in the community that legislators may take quite a dim view of
> unschooling and look to tighten up state laws that'll make both
> unschooling and homeschooling more difficult, if they judge such
> things from the way unschooling is being presented in the media. As
> sweet and honest and even true to what goes on in a lot of unschooling
> households as the media portrayal might be *to us*, there are too many
> people who vociferously disagree with what we do and how we do it.
> Legislators listen to those people, too.
>
> Robin B.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

Is being an UNnanny a way to make income?

~Katherine




On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:04 AM, Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...>wrote:

>
> On Jun 2, 2010, at 8:14 PM, Kelly Halldorson wrote:
>
> > Robin B wrote:
> >
> >> I find myself wondering
> >> what, say, the Martins' or the Parents' agendas are? Is it to help
> >> parents unschool, the way Sandra and Pam do? I don't know...
> >
>
> Oh, and I meant to say that "agenda" is probably too strong a word.
> Not for the media, but for unschoolers.
>
> Perhaps "purpose" was more to the point. What someone might hope to
> accomplish by going on national TV. I'm still not sure what that might
> be and I'm curious.
>
> Robin B.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Halldorson

>Is being an UNnanny a way to make income?

You know *I* think this is a very interesting topic. The idea of earning an income through ways you choose to live your life. If being an "UNnanny" can help provide for the family...then why not? I'd like to broaden it beyond just the UnNanny idea and more toward advocating for an income...or financial compensation.

And ask is this good or bad for unschooling? Or maybe a little of both? I think it would be wonderful related specifically to unschooling. I'll do my best.

I have friends who are strongly against charging for mentoring...but these friends often times have husbands who pay all of the bills. I wonder why folks often have such negative reactions regarding others making money...

If Dayna (or anyone else) is able to make a living by being with her family, doing what she does anyway...why not? And how is that different from someone giving their time away freely? Does that make their motivations more noble? What if a person gives away support for free and doesn't care about helping people but just doing it for the ego-sake? Which is better? Is there an ideal?

People often times have multiple motivations. I know with our book (my hubby and I wrote a book about sexual abuse) we hope to derive some income from helping and advocating for people who've been victimized...but we also just hope to help people. We give away free digital copies to victims of child sexual assault. Does that make us better than if we charged people? I (and Jeff) give away free email support daily...does that make us better people? Some people might look at giving away all the free support as just marketing and in a sense it is.

I take pictures and give away free advice to people about taking pictures. People tell me all the time I should charge...I don't. Money is not my primary motivation for doing it. Does that make my advice better than others? I don't think so.

There is just a lot to think about. And I'm genuinely curious how folks feel about it.

I have lots more thoughts but I don't want to go on forever. And although I gave an example from my life I still would like to hear people's thoughts on how it all relates to unschooling...

Whether or not one type of advocacy is superior to another and/or what people think about a combination of things.

Peace,
Kelly






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-***Not that I'm ever likely to be asked, but I agree. I'd say no
even to Oprah. ***-=-

The problem with saying no is that if a producer has been assigned to
procure an unschooler, she'll find one. If I don't speak (like on a
conservative Michigan talk show on the radio, on short notice...)
they'll find someone else.

There's not an easy answer, but today I can say that I'm not thrilled
about having to clean up after someone else's problematical media
exposure.

-=-After watching the finished Nightline product yesterday, I went to
the Martin's blog to see if she had posted a reaction, but the
original post was gone. I have no idea what she may be feeling, but if
it were me, I think I'd feel a bit betrayed on some level. Perhaps.-=-

It's not the first time a post has disappeared from that blog.

I would like to encourage people, as usual, to find honest, reliable,
experienced unschoolers to trust for information.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Su Penn

On Jun 3, 2010, at 12:24 Robin B. wrote:

> Perhaps "purpose" was more to the point. What someone might hope to
> accomplish by going on national TV. I'm still not sure what that might
> be and I'm curious.

I don't know Dayna Martin's specific motivations, but her book is titled "Radical Unschooling: A Revolution Has Begun!" and IIRC from when I read it awhile ago, she seemed to have the idea/hope/expectation that unschooling really is a movement that will grow. One motivation for a person who felt that way might be to reach people who might become a part of the movement if they knew about it.

Veering even farther and not making any statement about Dayna Martin at all, it might be a desire to share this really interesting thing that happened. My partner is a transsexual, and a long time ago we had a website aimed at people whose partners were in gender transition.
from that, we got a couple of feelers from talk show producers looking for people to appear. I have not been on TV, but I have at different times been on panels talking about the transition, and I've written and spoken about it as well. There are two things that motivate me when I've done this. One is that having a partner change genders is--in addition to everything else it is--a really interesting experience that I sometimes like to talk about and think other people will also find interesting. The other is that talking honestly about a minority experience can lead to increased understanding and tolerance (meeting a transsexual man in person and listening to him talk about his life humanized transsexuals for David and me a long time ago, and was an important first step in paving the way for what has turned out to be a very good change in our lives.)

Oh, a third motivation for me is that I enjoy being the center of attention. I would not choose to be on TV or to be interviewed for a newspaper or magazine because of the distortions I've seen that would undermine the goals I've mentioned above, but certainly one motivation for me in writing about David's transition and our relationship has been, "Hey! This really super-unusual thing happened to me! Here I am! Look at me!"

Su, mom to Eric, 9; Carl, 6; Yehva, 2.5
tapeflags.blogspot.com

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

  
<<The problem with saying no is that if a producer has been assigned to
procure an unschooler, she'll find one. If I don't speak (like on a
conservative Michigan talk show on the radio, on short notice...)
they'll find someone else.>>>
 
You are doing a live interview. Recorded pieces with all the editing are a completely different think, Remember the Good Morning America piece with Christine Yablonski? The live interview that they did a couple of days later was so much better.
 

Alex Polikowsky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-What if a person gives away support for free and doesn't care about
helping people but just doing it for the ego-sake?-=-

If it's not actually helpful, it won't be helping or hurting anyone.
It will be that teaching-without-learning, won't it? I don't think
people will do that for long, if at all.

-=-We give away free digital copies to victims of child sexual
assault. Does that make us better than if we charged people? -=-

If you were unwilling to help people who weren't able to pay, that
wouldn't make you better, in my opinion. And the idea of "better" has
to do with the opinions of individuals. It all depends who you're
trying to impress, if anyone. Some people are self-motivated and
don't need feedback from others. Some seem entirely motivated by
other people's approval. Neither of those is "better" either, I don't
suppose. If a hermit is creating or writing and writes and draws
piles of material but nobody will ever read it, some would see a value
in that (documentation of the life of a hermit--that would interest
some people, and others not one bit).

-=-I take pictures and give away free advice to people about taking
pictures. People tell me all the time I should charge...I don't. Money
is not my primary motivation for doing it. Does that make my advice
better than others? I don't think so. -=-

Does it make it worse?

Good advice doesn't have to do with the cost of the advice.
Bad advice is made much worse if someone paid for it.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Halldorson

>If it's not actually helpful, it won't be helping or hurting anyone.
>It will be that teaching-without-learning, won't it? I don't think
>people will do that for long, if at all.

Or learning negative or misinformation? I've seen blogs where people give terrible (in my opinion) advice and they thrive. Think of tea party support you talk about....

http://sandradodd.com/support/

Isn't that still learning? I think it's all learning.

>If you were unwilling to help people who weren't able to pay, that
>wouldn't make you better, in my opinion.

I agree, that's why I chose to give away the copies. I wish we could give away actual copies.

>And the idea of "better" has
>to do with the opinions of individuals.

Totally agree! That's why I like discussing it.

>Some people are self-motivated and
>don't need feedback from others. Some seem entirely motivated by
>other people's approval.

Some people are a little of both?

I am self-motivated and don't need feedback from others...but I like it...

>Neither of those is "better" either, I don't
>suppose. If a hermit is creating or writing and writes and draws
>piles of material but nobody will ever read it, some would see a value
>in that (documentation of the life of a hermit--that would interest
>some people, and others not one bit).

-=-I take pictures and give away free advice to people about taking
pictures. People tell me all the time I should charge...I don't. Money
is not my primary motivation for doing it. Does that make my advice
better than others? I don't think so. -=-

>Does it make it worse?

To some people. Some people think it has less value because nobody is paying for it. If I charged $100/hr for advice then people would think it was worth more. Sometimes that's how things work. I experienced that a lot when I did graphic work.

>Good advice doesn't have to do with the cost of the advice.

I agree but not everyone thinks that way.

>Bad advice is made much worse if someone paid for it.

LOL. Yes, totally.

Kelly

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=->Some people are self-motivated and
>don't need feedback from others. Some seem entirely motivated by
>other people's approval.

-=-Some people are a little of both? -=-

Most people are, I think. I think "both" is a better answer than
"just one," because entirely self-motivated can also be
"delusional." :-)

Having a total disregard for ALL negative feedback isn't healthy,
either. I got a kind of hate-mail thing this morning after I was on
the radio, from some stranger. He didn't know what he was talking
about, but I still read it and responded. And learning by thinking
about what others' responses are is real, direct learning.

Some people have already decided what they know and don't care what
other people think. Some of that is "confidence." Some of it can be
"LA LA LA LA I CAN'T *HEAR* YOU" childish behavior.

-=->Does it make it worse?
-=-To some people. Some people think it has less value because nobody
is paying for it. If I charged $100/hr for advice then people would
think it was worth more. Sometimes that's how things work=-

I mean does it make the suggestions less useful.

Maybe by "better/worse" you're thinking of the perception of value.
I'm thinking of "better/worse" and value as whether they contribute to
better photographs, better parenting, more clarity.

-=->Good advice doesn't have to do with the cost of the advice.
-=-I agree but not everyone thinks that way.-=-

It depends whether the person wanted to learn and improve, or whether
the person wanted to prove she had paid for good advice. How many
people "go to marriage counselling" and think that time put in at the
office and having the receipt for the sessions is the same as actually
listening and trying to change things in their marriage.

When someone buys a homeschooling curriculum, they get a receipt. So
with a paper saying "I paid $750 for A Beka third grade," they become
a home schooler and can prove it when that box of books arrives.

Unschooling is different, or it certainly SHOULD be different. Not
for $100 nor for $10,000 can anyone learn all about how to unschool in
a day or two. It's not going to happen.

Rushing it does damage, too.
http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange

Sandra





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gwen Montoya

Unschooling is such a big change from mainstream schoolish thinking...and
schoolish thinking is everywhere.

I think there is real value in seeing how multiple other unschooling
families work and how they navigate issues - at park days, get-togethers
and conferences. And online too. Kids are all so different, so something
that works in one family or with one kid, won't work for another kid in
another family. Online, you can hear all these different "voices" and you
get that in real life meetings as well. Online someone might say "I trust
that my child can do x without help" and you might imagine some crazy
dangerous thing. But in person you can see someone say that and then
observe the trust and watchfulness that flows between the parent and child.

I don't know if there is the same value in having one person with one
"voice" coming to your house and tell you about unschooling.

Gwen

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

>
> Unschooling is different, or it certainly SHOULD be different. Not
> for $100 nor for $10,000 can anyone learn all about how to unschool in
> a day or two. It's not going to happen.
>
> Rushing it does damage, too.
> http://sandradodd.com/gradualchange
>
> Sandra
>


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Christina Rieck

Sandra said,

"The problem with saying no is that if a producer has been assigned to
procure an unschooler, she'll find one. If I don't speak (like on a
conservative Michigan talk show on the radio, on short notice...)
they'll find someone else.

There's not an easy answer, but today I can say that I'm not thrilled
about having to clean up after someone else's problematical media
exposure."

I listened to your interview and I appreciated it greatly. I did, however,
want to add that media can twist and make anything into what it wants it to
be. In fact, they did that with your daughters interview today after they
were done talking with you. They made it sound like her life experiences
have clearly made her "against formal education" and then insinuated that
her life would be "meaningless without college." I was outraged to hear it
twisted in such a way, but it *is *the media. So no matter who you are, you
are taking a risk at making a "problematic media exposure" because it may be
edited or additional information may be presented when you are unable to add
any more comments.

I agree, that I want to let our voices be heard. However, any media form
can cause potential problems and even the "best of the best" can be made to
sound like lunatics in my opinion.


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Jenny Cyphers

***I don't know if there is the same value in having one person with one
"voice" coming to your house and tell you about unschooling.***

I know, and the news segment could've been completely wrong in how it actually happens. I'm really sorry that it was put out there.

The thing about paying someone for a service, is that the person paying needs to feel like they got what they paid for. That leaves a lot to interpretation when it comes to jumping into a family's life and introducing unschooling. Paying someone can be a liability. Whose to say that a person got their money's worth?





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Sandra Dodd

-=-I don't know if there is the same value in having one person with one
"voice" coming to your house and tell you about unschooling.-=-

Definitely.

When people e-mail me with questions of any complexity, I tell them it
would be better for them to ask on Unschooling Basics or Always
Learning (or some other list, depending on the question), because then
they would get more than just my opinion.

If it's a simple question and I can just send a link, I do that, but
if it's something that would be helped by discussion, I don't go one-
on-one about it. Partly it's because she'll get better answers from a
group. Partly it's because my time is better spent writing to a group
than to an individual. And partly it's because if I make a suggestion
and someone else sees a problem with that, or has an additional idea
related to whatever I first write, they can say so.

I think it helps people to see the various approaches and
disagreements within the discussion, too.

When Kirby was nine and I first was online helping people, and was
invited to speak at a local conference, someone said online one day
(right in front of me, but in way of a put-down) that people could
disregard my opinion because my oldest was only nine. True, they
could. Had I gone off on my own, though, in those days, rather than
staying in the larger, open discussions with other people from whom I
was still learning, the value of my opinions now would be stunted and
narrow.

From seeing what can go wrong (like not going gradually, like trying
to do things they don't understand), one becomes a better helper.

Sandra



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Jill Parmer

On Jun 3, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Gwen Montoya wrote:

> I don't know if there is the same value in having one person with one
> "voice" coming to your house and tell you about unschooling.

I think the "buyer" also misses out on building her own confidence.
There's a sense of strength and being grounded that comes with doing
that. Kinda like when you *know* kids can learn to read without
being taught.

Another person can't give that to you.

~Jill






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Laura Flynn Endres

>>>>>>>>>>>
Kelly Halldorson wrote: You know *I* think this is a very interesting topic. The idea of earning an income through ways you choose to live your life. If being an "UNnanny" can help provide for the family...then why not? I'd like to broaden it beyond just the UnNanny idea and more toward advocating for an income...or financial compensation.

And ask is this good or bad for unschooling? Or maybe a little of both? I think it would be wonderful related specifically to unschooling. I'll do my best.

I have friends who are strongly against charging for mentoring...but these friends often times have husbands who pay all of the bills. I wonder why folks often have such negative reactions regarding others making money...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I've been uneasy about the recent unschooling publicity, but aside from my disappointment in how the network has handled it, I couldn't quite put my finger on it. But I'm realizing now it's the potential threat to our rights that has me bothered. Homeschooling in IL is well protected, and there are a lot of people watching and working to see that it stays that way. Being on top of (not to mention understanding) the process is not my forte so I am extremely grateful to those who ARE on top of things. I'm in touch with them and I know them personally and I attend their workshops at our state conference so I can learn more. When they say jump, I ask how high. I thank them for what they do. It bothers me that some unschoolers are willing to put it all out there (for whatever reasons) and risk further scrutiny. Anyone who's read the comments can see that some people get so upset they scream that this should be illegal. Legislators are often pressing for the compulsory age to be lowered, which often becomes a homeschooling issue. Getting the public riled up about things like this doesn't help us.

As for respecting that someone is just trying to make a living doing something she loves to do... yes, I agree, this is what we want for our children, this is a part of unschooling. That said, most things - pottery, building sheds, cooking, performance art, etc etc etc - don't threaten the rights of others when pursued. This can.

Many people think homeschooling and especially unschooling should be illegal, and this just fans the flames. I'm all for someone making money doing what they love, so long as it doesn't sell the rest of us down the river.

I'm less concerned with her doing the Un-Nanny thing, because that isn't specifically an unschooling issue - it's more of a parenting issue. And no one's going to take away our right to parent. <g> I do, however, have concerns about putting unschooling in the spotlight. THAT right can be lost, or at least made far more difficult and complicated.

Because of the GMA segment I have a reporter who continues to call and email me, asking to do a piece on our family. I've actually taken the opportunity to explain to her exactly why I feel it's not a good idea. I don't believe unschooling will go mainstream anytime soon; it's not information the general public needs (as a public service, let's say). Those who need information on unschooling will find us. Therefore, the only reason the network might want to do a piece is to generate ratings, buzz, capitalize on a hot topic in the national media. That's the ONLY reason they'd do it. I told her that. I also told her I'm not comfortable offering up my children so they can boost their ratings, that I'm not interested in being portrayed as a wacko so they can get more hits on their site.

I've been interviewed by the media many many times - not for unschooling - and they've never, NEVER gotten it right. Not even in print. Not even when they recorded the entire interview. Not even when it was live - because they write the 'lead in' and set the tone there. Most of the time it didn't matter or change the message, but it did when I was a speaker at an anti-war rally that attracted 500 people and they took only 6-8 words I said out of context, for example.

I don't know Dayna Martin personally and I assume she's a lovely person, especially knowing she has many fans and supporters. But I'm very uncomfortable with her willingness to put unschooling in the spotlight.

Laura



*~*~*~*~*
"Keep company with those who make you better." ~ English saying
*~*~*~*~*
www.piscesgrrrl.blogspot.com
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