[AlwaysLearning] John Taylor Gatto/Sandra's Book/Influences
Kelly Halldorson
Sandra,
I'm reading your book. I love it. It's amazing, it really is. I'm actually only on page 191. By the way I love what you did on page 189/190...LOL. I actually stopped reading and spoke to my son, Wolfgang, about your "contradictions" on that page...and how it *didn't make sense* you had said those things after saying the other stuff right on that page. I told him I was a little disappointed.
Then I turned the page. And laughed and laughed and laughed.
Anywho, my *real* point of this post is that John Taylor Gatto is relevant. In my opinion...in the same ways that Attachment Parenting and LLL are. Libertarianism is another gateway into unschooling.
If you extend your existing principle of non-force/non-violence unschooling is really the only place you can end up. This is really how *I* came to unschooling. Extending my philosophical principles to all parts of my life and all people.
Philosophically I am 100% Radical Unschooler...reality is I'm still probably only 85-90% there in my actions but I work to change my behaviors to be more compassionate, loving, open, mindful everyday. It is a gradual process. And it started in me with thinking of people as individuals believe it or not Ayn Rand 16 years ago. (and I'm not even a huge fan of hers, totally disagree with her thoughts on altruism and such)
Peace,
Kelly
From: Sandra Dodd
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 11:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] John Taylor Gatto
-=-And it's good to check when he said what he's quoted as saying
because his views on various things have shifted over the years.-=-
But they didn't shift from direct experience with unschooling
families, and the original statements weren't made because of direct
experience with unschooling, so it didn't seem like the best thing to
quote in a radical unschooling forum.
Some people don't understand that when questions are asked of other
unschoolers, the questioner has found a place like RUNning or this
list *because* they want the input of people with unschooling
experience. Quoting dubious experts or offering insipid "support"
aren't what people come for.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm reading your book. I love it. It's amazing, it really is. I'm actually only on page 191. By the way I love what you did on page 189/190...LOL. I actually stopped reading and spoke to my son, Wolfgang, about your "contradictions" on that page...and how it *didn't make sense* you had said those things after saying the other stuff right on that page. I told him I was a little disappointed.
Then I turned the page. And laughed and laughed and laughed.
Anywho, my *real* point of this post is that John Taylor Gatto is relevant. In my opinion...in the same ways that Attachment Parenting and LLL are. Libertarianism is another gateway into unschooling.
If you extend your existing principle of non-force/non-violence unschooling is really the only place you can end up. This is really how *I* came to unschooling. Extending my philosophical principles to all parts of my life and all people.
Philosophically I am 100% Radical Unschooler...reality is I'm still probably only 85-90% there in my actions but I work to change my behaviors to be more compassionate, loving, open, mindful everyday. It is a gradual process. And it started in me with thinking of people as individuals believe it or not Ayn Rand 16 years ago. (and I'm not even a huge fan of hers, totally disagree with her thoughts on altruism and such)
Peace,
Kelly
From: Sandra Dodd
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 11:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] John Taylor Gatto
-=-And it's good to check when he said what he's quoted as saying
because his views on various things have shifted over the years.-=-
But they didn't shift from direct experience with unschooling
families, and the original statements weren't made because of direct
experience with unschooling, so it didn't seem like the best thing to
quote in a radical unschooling forum.
Some people don't understand that when questions are asked of other
unschoolers, the questioner has found a place like RUNning or this
list *because* they want the input of people with unschooling
experience. Quoting dubious experts or offering insipid "support"
aren't what people come for.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cara Barlow
===Anywho, my *real* point of this post is that John Taylor Gatto is
relevant. In my opinion...in the same ways that Attachment Parenting and LLL
are. Libertarianism is another gateway into unschooling.===
I have a problem with the libertarianism part of this argument.
There is measurable proof that attachment parenting and LLL benefit children
and mothers, and both support parents in becoming their children's partners.
John Taylor Gatto is good to listen to if you are still trying to detach
from school - he's been there and can offer some concrete examples of how to
successfully break away from school, though he's not an unschooler.
Libertarianism, though, is a political philosophy about public policy, and
there are no (that I know of) working examples of libertarian cities,
states, or nations. And if there were, I'm not sure how they would relate to
unschooling.
Best wishes, Cara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
relevant. In my opinion...in the same ways that Attachment Parenting and LLL
are. Libertarianism is another gateway into unschooling.===
I have a problem with the libertarianism part of this argument.
There is measurable proof that attachment parenting and LLL benefit children
and mothers, and both support parents in becoming their children's partners.
John Taylor Gatto is good to listen to if you are still trying to detach
from school - he's been there and can offer some concrete examples of how to
successfully break away from school, though he's not an unschooler.
Libertarianism, though, is a political philosophy about public policy, and
there are no (that I know of) working examples of libertarian cities,
states, or nations. And if there were, I'm not sure how they would relate to
unschooling.
Best wishes, Cara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Anywho, my *real* point of this post is that John Taylor Gatto is
relevant. In my opinion...in the same ways that Attachment Parenting
and LLL
are. Libertarianism is another gateway into unschooling.-=-
If someone finds unschooling because the book *Chop Wood, Carry Water*
footnotes John Holt and Growing Without Schooling, that's good!
If someone then disputes an unschooler's advice with a quote from Chop
Wood, Carry Water, and defends that by saying the book supports
unschooling, that's a parallel to someone quoting Gatto to suggest
that advice from experienced unschoolers should be disregarded.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
relevant. In my opinion...in the same ways that Attachment Parenting
and LLL
are. Libertarianism is another gateway into unschooling.-=-
If someone finds unschooling because the book *Chop Wood, Carry Water*
footnotes John Holt and Growing Without Schooling, that's good!
If someone then disputes an unschooler's advice with a quote from Chop
Wood, Carry Water, and defends that by saying the book supports
unschooling, that's a parallel to someone quoting Gatto to suggest
that advice from experienced unschoolers should be disregarded.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Halldorson
==>Libertarianism, though, is a political philosophy about public policy, and
there are no (that I know of) working examples of libertarian cities,
states, or nations. <==
Working example:
The United States for the first 100 years. (sadly we excluded blacks, native americans and women from being idividuals - but the US Constitution is a near-perfect model of the libertarian government)
==>And if there were, I'm not sure how they would relate to
unschooling.<==
The following is a quote from Sandra's book (p. 180: Modeling Joy).
==Attempting to force someone to do something has never led to peace and cooperation. It creates sneakiness and avoidance.==
Now I understand this was not at all meant to be applied to libertarian thought. But from my perspective it *is* libertarian thought. I believe (and it's clear if you look around the world) we cannot force morality. We cannot force/legislate people to be good people, to make good choices etc.
The core of libertarian philosophy is peace, individualism & non-coercion. If those are not extensions of unschooling philosophy (or the other way round) I don't know what is.
A couple of links I think are great examples of libertarian philosophy...
A speech by John Mackey (CEO, Founder of Whole Foods):
http://www.libertyunbound.com/archive/2006_06/mackey-winning.html
Reason magazine:
http://reason.com/
Peace,
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
there are no (that I know of) working examples of libertarian cities,
states, or nations. <==
Working example:
The United States for the first 100 years. (sadly we excluded blacks, native americans and women from being idividuals - but the US Constitution is a near-perfect model of the libertarian government)
==>And if there were, I'm not sure how they would relate to
unschooling.<==
The following is a quote from Sandra's book (p. 180: Modeling Joy).
==Attempting to force someone to do something has never led to peace and cooperation. It creates sneakiness and avoidance.==
Now I understand this was not at all meant to be applied to libertarian thought. But from my perspective it *is* libertarian thought. I believe (and it's clear if you look around the world) we cannot force morality. We cannot force/legislate people to be good people, to make good choices etc.
The core of libertarian philosophy is peace, individualism & non-coercion. If those are not extensions of unschooling philosophy (or the other way round) I don't know what is.
A couple of links I think are great examples of libertarian philosophy...
A speech by John Mackey (CEO, Founder of Whole Foods):
http://www.libertyunbound.com/archive/2006_06/mackey-winning.html
Reason magazine:
http://reason.com/
Peace,
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cara Barlow
I'm just going to respond to this topic briefly and then stop, because it
may be straying too far from how unschooling works in families.
When we started homeschooling a few years ago I noticed that some
homeschoolers and unschoolers spent a lot of time talking about
libertarianism. About the same time (I live in New Hampshire) the Free State
Project was getting publicity - they (the Free Stater's) were saying that a
large group of their membership was going to move to NH so they could
influence the way NH was governed. I don't know if this ever happened, but I
suspect not. I haven't heard about them in a while.
I didn't know anything about libertarianism, so read about it, and also read
counter-arguments, which is really useful <g>. I found lots of it
interesting and good (and fun!) to talk about.
That said, argument about the US constitution is often made and is faulty.
Here's a link, not to an anti-libertarian site, but to a site that provides
counter-arguments to common fallacious arguments within libertarianism. It
addresses the US constitution argument in point number 1.
<http://world.std.com/~mhuben/faq.html#intent>
Libertarianism may share some goals with unschooling, but so do many other
modes of thinking about the world. I'm just not convince that libertarianism
is, at this time, anything more than a nice political theory that's fun to
talk about. I'm one of those show-me people; I like to have real-life
examples of something working.
But, as Sandra wrote:
===If someone finds unschooling because the book *Chop Wood, Carry Water*
footnotes John Holt and Growing Without Schooling, that's good!
If someone then disputes an unschooler's advice with a quote from Chop
Wood, Carry Water, and defends that by saying the book supports
unschooling, that's a parallel to someone quoting Gatto to suggest
that advice from experienced unschoolers should be disregarded.====
Best wishes, Cara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
may be straying too far from how unschooling works in families.
When we started homeschooling a few years ago I noticed that some
homeschoolers and unschoolers spent a lot of time talking about
libertarianism. About the same time (I live in New Hampshire) the Free State
Project was getting publicity - they (the Free Stater's) were saying that a
large group of their membership was going to move to NH so they could
influence the way NH was governed. I don't know if this ever happened, but I
suspect not. I haven't heard about them in a while.
I didn't know anything about libertarianism, so read about it, and also read
counter-arguments, which is really useful <g>. I found lots of it
interesting and good (and fun!) to talk about.
That said, argument about the US constitution is often made and is faulty.
Here's a link, not to an anti-libertarian site, but to a site that provides
counter-arguments to common fallacious arguments within libertarianism. It
addresses the US constitution argument in point number 1.
<http://world.std.com/~mhuben/faq.html#intent>
Libertarianism may share some goals with unschooling, but so do many other
modes of thinking about the world. I'm just not convince that libertarianism
is, at this time, anything more than a nice political theory that's fun to
talk about. I'm one of those show-me people; I like to have real-life
examples of something working.
But, as Sandra wrote:
===If someone finds unschooling because the book *Chop Wood, Carry Water*
footnotes John Holt and Growing Without Schooling, that's good!
If someone then disputes an unschooler's advice with a quote from Chop
Wood, Carry Water, and defends that by saying the book supports
unschooling, that's a parallel to someone quoting Gatto to suggest
that advice from experienced unschoolers should be disregarded.====
Best wishes, Cara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Libertarianism may share some goals with unschooling, but so do
many other
modes of thinking about the world.-=-
Secular humanism.
People will listen confusedly until they think they recognize what
we're talking about, and if they can shout a label, they think they
"have the answer"--that they totally understand unschooling. Often
what's called out is "secular humanism!" and in some thoughts and
places (fundamentalist Christians who are a large part of U.S. school-
at-home families) it's kind of like calling out "Evil satan-
worshippers!"
I never cared a bit about humanism before. I had read about it
reading about religious history of Europe. I had heard about it
vaguely in psychology classes and the history of ideas about child
development. And sure enough, the idea that a child isn't born
screwed up, but can have screwed-up-edness thrust upon him, is
something secular humanists believe.
That doesn't mean that unschoolers and secular humanists are equal, or
that one came from the other.
Correlation isn't cause and effect. Overlapping in a Venn diagram
isn't source or origin.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
many other
modes of thinking about the world.-=-
Secular humanism.
People will listen confusedly until they think they recognize what
we're talking about, and if they can shout a label, they think they
"have the answer"--that they totally understand unschooling. Often
what's called out is "secular humanism!" and in some thoughts and
places (fundamentalist Christians who are a large part of U.S. school-
at-home families) it's kind of like calling out "Evil satan-
worshippers!"
I never cared a bit about humanism before. I had read about it
reading about religious history of Europe. I had heard about it
vaguely in psychology classes and the history of ideas about child
development. And sure enough, the idea that a child isn't born
screwed up, but can have screwed-up-edness thrust upon him, is
something secular humanists believe.
That doesn't mean that unschoolers and secular humanists are equal, or
that one came from the other.
Correlation isn't cause and effect. Overlapping in a Venn diagram
isn't source or origin.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
Although there is a discussion every year, it seems, on the
commercialism of Mother's Day (including such talk on Facebook today),
I *still* want to say Happy Mother's Day to all you mums who write
about your unschooling lives here. Thank you and enjoy your day,
whether you celebrate or not <g>.
My mum always enjoyed her Mother's Day; I miss her every day...
Robin B.
commercialism of Mother's Day (including such talk on Facebook today),
I *still* want to say Happy Mother's Day to all you mums who write
about your unschooling lives here. Thank you and enjoy your day,
whether you celebrate or not <g>.
My mum always enjoyed her Mother's Day; I miss her every day...
Robin B.
Pam Sorooshian
On 5/9/2010 10:38 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
are the same thing or logically that one leads to the other.
Unschoolers know that children thrive when we see the best in them and
support their strengths
Unschoolers may selectively choose what to focus on, true, but that
doesn't mean we believe all the Law of Attraction stuff, such as:
"So it is with the Law Of Attraction. Whatever thought energy (vibrating
seed) that you release into the universe, creates and emits a specific
vibratory pattern or frequency based on the kind and quality of of
thought, is attracted by and joined with like energy of the same
harmonious frequency or vibration which vibrates in resonance with it,
which in turn creates the events, conditions and circumstances that you
see manifest in your life every single day! "
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> -=-Libertarianism may share some goals with unschooling, but so doLaw of Attraction. Some people think unschooling and Law of Attraction
> many other
> modes of thinking about the world.-=-
>
> Secular humanism.
are the same thing or logically that one leads to the other.
Unschoolers know that children thrive when we see the best in them and
support their strengths
Unschoolers may selectively choose what to focus on, true, but that
doesn't mean we believe all the Law of Attraction stuff, such as:
"So it is with the Law Of Attraction. Whatever thought energy (vibrating
seed) that you release into the universe, creates and emits a specific
vibratory pattern or frequency based on the kind and quality of of
thought, is attracted by and joined with like energy of the same
harmonious frequency or vibration which vibrates in resonance with it,
which in turn creates the events, conditions and circumstances that you
see manifest in your life every single day! "
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
I don't understand how it is any more commercial (really less so IMO) than any other day we choose to celebrate -
Father's Day, Christmas, 4th of July, birthdays, Anniversaries, Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, Labor Day, Easter, St Patrick's Day, Valentines Day, Cinco De Mayo, Halloween, etc.
I think holidays and celebrations spice up life and make it more fun.
I miss my mom too - she is a long ways away and I've not see her in 1.5 years.
Lisa W.
Father's Day, Christmas, 4th of July, birthdays, Anniversaries, Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, Labor Day, Easter, St Patrick's Day, Valentines Day, Cinco De Mayo, Halloween, etc.
I think holidays and celebrations spice up life and make it more fun.
I miss my mom too - she is a long ways away and I've not see her in 1.5 years.
Lisa W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Bentley
Although there is a discussion every year, it seems, on the
commercialism of Mother's Day (including such talk on Facebook today),
I *still* want to say Happy Mother's Day to all you mums who write
about your unschooling lives here. Thank you and enjoy your day,
whether you celebrate or not <g>.
My mum always enjoyed her Mother's Day; I miss her every day...
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Unschoolers may selectively choose what to focus on, true, but that
doesn't mean we believe all the Law of Attraction stuff-=-
The ideas about choosing light over darkness and peace over strife are
universal and old, but they're not "the law" of the universe or
anything. It's just something that makes plain, logical sense to
anyone who's paying the least amount of attention to human nature.
In the early 1980's I was pretty cynical and frustrated with the world
and (although I didn't know it at the time) depressed. A friend of
mine told me kindly but strongly that I was a drain on her energy and
she didn't want to be around me because she wanted her life to be more
positive.
Cool. I was embarrassed, and not to keep her in my life, but just to
acknowledge that she was right, I worked to become more positive.
Also in the next few years I discovered and utilized Adult Children of
Alcoholics, and La Leche League; had kids; got married. Not in that
order.
Twenty years passed, and I can hardly stand to be around that same
friend now because she's so cynical and pessimistic and self-
centered. But I don't tell her so. I know she knows how to do better
when she's in the mood. She's childless, so she's not ruining anyone
else's life.
None of that has anything to do with "Law of Attraction," which is
honestly an irritating bunch of bogusosity, but until people get tired
of it, there it will be, simultaneously all shiny and new, and all
"ancient" and channelled "wisdom."
It is simply true that until someone stops thinking about "teaching"
they can't stop thinking about it. Until someone wants to see natural
learning, it's going to be buried in a world of "education" things,
opportunities, phrases and expectations. But you don't "attract"
natural learning. You learn to see it, and to encourage and nurture it.
http://sandradodd.com/seeingit
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
doesn't mean we believe all the Law of Attraction stuff-=-
The ideas about choosing light over darkness and peace over strife are
universal and old, but they're not "the law" of the universe or
anything. It's just something that makes plain, logical sense to
anyone who's paying the least amount of attention to human nature.
In the early 1980's I was pretty cynical and frustrated with the world
and (although I didn't know it at the time) depressed. A friend of
mine told me kindly but strongly that I was a drain on her energy and
she didn't want to be around me because she wanted her life to be more
positive.
Cool. I was embarrassed, and not to keep her in my life, but just to
acknowledge that she was right, I worked to become more positive.
Also in the next few years I discovered and utilized Adult Children of
Alcoholics, and La Leche League; had kids; got married. Not in that
order.
Twenty years passed, and I can hardly stand to be around that same
friend now because she's so cynical and pessimistic and self-
centered. But I don't tell her so. I know she knows how to do better
when she's in the mood. She's childless, so she's not ruining anyone
else's life.
None of that has anything to do with "Law of Attraction," which is
honestly an irritating bunch of bogusosity, but until people get tired
of it, there it will be, simultaneously all shiny and new, and all
"ancient" and channelled "wisdom."
It is simply true that until someone stops thinking about "teaching"
they can't stop thinking about it. Until someone wants to see natural
learning, it's going to be buried in a world of "education" things,
opportunities, phrases and expectations. But you don't "attract"
natural learning. You learn to see it, and to encourage and nurture it.
http://sandradodd.com/seeingit
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Halldorson
++The ideas about choosing light over darkness and peace over strife are
universal and old, but they're not "the law" of the universe or
anything. It's just something that makes plain, logical sense to
anyone who's paying the least amount of attention to human nature.++
It's funny. I have a friend who has their religion on facebook as "whatever makes you want to be a better person" --- that is how I feel. Whatever it is that makes you want to be kinder, gentler, more loving, peaceful etc...that's what I support.
I personally don't claim to know whether it *is* the law or not.
I don't subscribe to the concept of *Law of Attraction* but I am thrilled that it works for others. I think it's beautiful when people make connections and such.
I don't agree or think that these things *are* law of the universe BUT I also don't think that I can definitively say they *aren't* because I don't know. And I don't claim to either way.
To me the Law of Attraction component is a religious component.
I'm agnostic. I don't have a religious component. I don't know if there is a god, if there is a higher power, if there isn't...none of that. I don't know. Maybe someday I will, who knows. But I don't claim to know I'm right about Law of Attraction any more than I claim to know about any other religion. Other than if it helps you be a gentler, loving etc person and it gives you reason, validation, purpose in your unschooling...wonderful.
There are also Christian unschooling groups that believe that is *the gateway* etc... again these are spiritual/religious components.
Also in the next few years I discovered and utilized Adult Children of
Alcoholics, and La Leche League; had kids; got married. Not in that
order.
++None of that has anything to do with "Law of Attraction," which is
honestly an irritating bunch of bogusosity, but until people get tired
of it, there it will be, simultaneously all shiny and new, and all
"ancient" and channelled "wisdom."++
I understand how things like this are irritating to others. I find some born again Christians to be irritating but I wouldn't call it bogusosity. I try to look at the positive. I try to see the good.
++It is simply true that until someone stops thinking about "teaching"
they can't stop thinking about it. Until someone wants to see natural
learning, it's going to be buried in a world of "education" things,
opportunities, phrases and expectations. But you don't "attract"
natural learning. You learn to see it, and to encourage and nurture it.++
I agree but I don't think that makes either one of us right. I think it's a matter of perspective. I don't see things in terms of law of attraction...So I'm not going to see it as attraction...I'm going to see it as you described because that is more the perspective I'm coming from.
+++Cool. I was embarrassed, and not to keep her in my life, but just to
acknowledge that she was right, I worked to become more positive.
Also in the next few years I discovered and utilized Adult Children of
Alcoholics, and La Leche League; had kids; got married. Not in that
order.+++
I wasn't involved in La Leche League but I now have many friends who are. Why accepted as an extension of unschooling? Or am I wrong is it not?
I recommended your book to three other people today. I carry it around right now with a highlighter. I think it's that good. My friend who also unschools her two boys asked me..."Why do you like it so much? Is it full of revelations?"
I said, "No, more affirmations."
I'm already there, in mind, and have been for many years now. It's the actions that I'm still working on. None of it comes from spiritual/religious anything.
It's philosophical, FOR ME. Again...basically stemming from libertarian philosophy (and I don't mean the Libertarian Political Party - I mean philosophy/principles).
Does any of this make me a better unschooler? Does is make the Law of Attraction people better unschoolers? Does it make the Christian unschoolers better? etc etc... aren't they all just pieces?
I hope at least some of that made sense...I'm really tired. I hope all of you moms had a great mother's day. I had the most wonderful day.
Peace,
Kelly
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
universal and old, but they're not "the law" of the universe or
anything. It's just something that makes plain, logical sense to
anyone who's paying the least amount of attention to human nature.++
It's funny. I have a friend who has their religion on facebook as "whatever makes you want to be a better person" --- that is how I feel. Whatever it is that makes you want to be kinder, gentler, more loving, peaceful etc...that's what I support.
I personally don't claim to know whether it *is* the law or not.
I don't subscribe to the concept of *Law of Attraction* but I am thrilled that it works for others. I think it's beautiful when people make connections and such.
I don't agree or think that these things *are* law of the universe BUT I also don't think that I can definitively say they *aren't* because I don't know. And I don't claim to either way.
To me the Law of Attraction component is a religious component.
I'm agnostic. I don't have a religious component. I don't know if there is a god, if there is a higher power, if there isn't...none of that. I don't know. Maybe someday I will, who knows. But I don't claim to know I'm right about Law of Attraction any more than I claim to know about any other religion. Other than if it helps you be a gentler, loving etc person and it gives you reason, validation, purpose in your unschooling...wonderful.
There are also Christian unschooling groups that believe that is *the gateway* etc... again these are spiritual/religious components.
Also in the next few years I discovered and utilized Adult Children of
Alcoholics, and La Leche League; had kids; got married. Not in that
order.
++None of that has anything to do with "Law of Attraction," which is
honestly an irritating bunch of bogusosity, but until people get tired
of it, there it will be, simultaneously all shiny and new, and all
"ancient" and channelled "wisdom."++
I understand how things like this are irritating to others. I find some born again Christians to be irritating but I wouldn't call it bogusosity. I try to look at the positive. I try to see the good.
++It is simply true that until someone stops thinking about "teaching"
they can't stop thinking about it. Until someone wants to see natural
learning, it's going to be buried in a world of "education" things,
opportunities, phrases and expectations. But you don't "attract"
natural learning. You learn to see it, and to encourage and nurture it.++
I agree but I don't think that makes either one of us right. I think it's a matter of perspective. I don't see things in terms of law of attraction...So I'm not going to see it as attraction...I'm going to see it as you described because that is more the perspective I'm coming from.
+++Cool. I was embarrassed, and not to keep her in my life, but just to
acknowledge that she was right, I worked to become more positive.
Also in the next few years I discovered and utilized Adult Children of
Alcoholics, and La Leche League; had kids; got married. Not in that
order.+++
I wasn't involved in La Leche League but I now have many friends who are. Why accepted as an extension of unschooling? Or am I wrong is it not?
I recommended your book to three other people today. I carry it around right now with a highlighter. I think it's that good. My friend who also unschools her two boys asked me..."Why do you like it so much? Is it full of revelations?"
I said, "No, more affirmations."
I'm already there, in mind, and have been for many years now. It's the actions that I'm still working on. None of it comes from spiritual/religious anything.
It's philosophical, FOR ME. Again...basically stemming from libertarian philosophy (and I don't mean the Libertarian Political Party - I mean philosophy/principles).
Does any of this make me a better unschooler? Does is make the Law of Attraction people better unschoolers? Does it make the Christian unschoolers better? etc etc... aren't they all just pieces?
I hope at least some of that made sense...I'm really tired. I hope all of you moms had a great mother's day. I had the most wonderful day.
Peace,
Kelly
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Pam Sorooshian
On 5/9/2010 8:21 PM, Kelly Halldorson wrote:
Problem is, they claim it is science based on quantum physics.
Bigger problem is that there are unschoolers who claim that adding Law
of Attraction is advanced unschooling.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I'm agnostic. I don't have a religious component. I don't know ifAs a religious belief - it's a nice one.
> there is a god, if there is a higher power, if there isn't...none of
> that. I don't know. Maybe someday I will, who knows. But I don't claim
> to know I'm right about Law of Attraction any more than I claim to
> know about any other religion. Other than if it helps you be a
> gentler, loving etc person and it gives you reason, validation,
> purpose in your unschooling...wonderful.
Problem is, they claim it is science based on quantum physics.
Bigger problem is that there are unschoolers who claim that adding Law
of Attraction is advanced unschooling.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Su Penn
On May 10, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
Su, mom to Eric, 8; Carl, 6; Yehva, 2.5
tapeflags.blogspot.com
> Bigger problem is that there are unschoolers who claim that adding LawI know it's foolish to generalize from a single sample, but whenever the Law of Attraction comes up, I remember a woman--a big Law of Attraction booster--who, in the midst of my grief at losing a baby (the birthmother changed her mind and decided to parent), told me that it happened because I let myself imagine it happening. I was not nearly as rude to her as, in retrospect, I have wished I had been. It's hard for me to have positive feelings about a philosophy that invites its followers to tell someone in distress that it's their own fault.
> of Attraction is advanced unschooling.
Su, mom to Eric, 8; Carl, 6; Yehva, 2.5
tapeflags.blogspot.com