farmer/gardener/"green choices"
Sandra Dodd
My first ideas are below, but I need help with this one:
Sandra,
i wrote this to our local group to someone asking about food issues (i
gave her your site links): " I"m going to write to our group about
unschooling families who manage farms but who do not mandate chores or
do not demand green choices from children, seperately."
I gave Alex's example. ( http://polykow.blogspot.com/ ) Are there more
out there who unschool their kids and run farms etc? A lot of people
on my group here are interested in growing their own produce, want to
keep junk away from their kids because they believe its hte worst
thing they cna do to the environment etc... i've seen several replies
from you and others to similar questions on your groups. BUt i'm
wondering if there are essays to this effect and also blogs of people
who choose to eat in a certain way and farm etc... but don't mandate
it from their children. This may help our group.
Obviously just reading your food page, with its principles based
choices, has not been enough for them. I'm thinking blogs will make
it come to life for them. Hope i'm making sense.
love, hema
Hema A. Bharadwaj
http://thebharadwajknights.blogspot.com/
======================================
I'm thinking Crystal Miller, Danielle Conger...
Interesting that this came from India the day after the comment about
Switzerland.
Is radical unschooling as it's discussed on this list compatible with
"green choices"?
Is the idea of (or the term) "green choice" going to create an
imbalance in people's thinking the way "true Christian" and "non-
coercive" can?
The dualistic suggestion that a family is either "non-coercive" by the
definition of NCP or they are then by default "coercive" has caused
frustration and confusion. Will the idea that the opposite of "green
choice" is... what is it the opposite?... cause that kind of guilt and
scramble?
It seems to me at first thought that forcing kids to work in gardens
or fields isn't any way to make them love cucumbers or okra (thinking
of two things I was pressed to work on/with as a kid, in different
situations).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra,
i wrote this to our local group to someone asking about food issues (i
gave her your site links): " I"m going to write to our group about
unschooling families who manage farms but who do not mandate chores or
do not demand green choices from children, seperately."
I gave Alex's example. ( http://polykow.blogspot.com/ ) Are there more
out there who unschool their kids and run farms etc? A lot of people
on my group here are interested in growing their own produce, want to
keep junk away from their kids because they believe its hte worst
thing they cna do to the environment etc... i've seen several replies
from you and others to similar questions on your groups. BUt i'm
wondering if there are essays to this effect and also blogs of people
who choose to eat in a certain way and farm etc... but don't mandate
it from their children. This may help our group.
Obviously just reading your food page, with its principles based
choices, has not been enough for them. I'm thinking blogs will make
it come to life for them. Hope i'm making sense.
love, hema
Hema A. Bharadwaj
http://thebharadwajknights.blogspot.com/
======================================
I'm thinking Crystal Miller, Danielle Conger...
Interesting that this came from India the day after the comment about
Switzerland.
Is radical unschooling as it's discussed on this list compatible with
"green choices"?
Is the idea of (or the term) "green choice" going to create an
imbalance in people's thinking the way "true Christian" and "non-
coercive" can?
The dualistic suggestion that a family is either "non-coercive" by the
definition of NCP or they are then by default "coercive" has caused
frustration and confusion. Will the idea that the opposite of "green
choice" is... what is it the opposite?... cause that kind of guilt and
scramble?
It seems to me at first thought that forcing kids to work in gardens
or fields isn't any way to make them love cucumbers or okra (thinking
of two things I was pressed to work on/with as a kid, in different
situations).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle Conger
On 4/29/10 7:17 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
Living from a place of fear and guilt has rarely been conducive of
joy--personal or familial--in my experience. Yes, I'm pretty well-versed
and immersed in the whole peak oil argument and have lots of thoughts on
that, which are outside the scope of unschooling discussion (but I've
written lots about it at my farm blog: touchtheearthfarm.blogspot.com ).
That said, however, what I've found to work best in my life is to
embrace my principles as *personal* principles and to live them in ways
that impact my kids' lives in positive ways.
My take on the matter is that if I want them to adopt my principles, and
I'm not entirely sure I do, then the best way for that to happen is for
my kids to associate those principles with comfort and joy, not guilt,
fear, shame, or coercion. I can step back and realize that I got to my
current mode of thinking from a pretty conventional upbringing--if my
journey brought me here, then surely my kids can choose whatever life
path works for them and *perhaps* also get to this place of viewing the
world. Perhaps not, and that's okay with me too because one of my
personal principles is that each person gets to choose his/ her own life
path.
There are lots of ways to live one's own principles without imposing
them on others, and there are lots of ways to remain open to other
points of view. I may not choose to hunt, but I can see the value of
that for other people, my children included. I can listen
enthusiastically and do what I can to support my kids' exploration of
their own values and interests without compromising what matters to
me--there's a separation there that's key, in my opinion. Being able to
view the world through their eyes and not just my own is a way to foster
connection; insisting others adopt my view is a pretty good way to
foster disconnection and conflict.
Life is a journey, and we're constantly in the process of trying things,
stepping back to consider what's working for *all* of us and what's not,
and tweaking things to find solutions that meet *all* of our needs. My
kids love living on the farm because for them it's a source of joy,
interest, and delicious food. We're also finding that it's a source of
dissatisfaction in terms of vacationing and my husband's commute, and
those are problems we're working to address. Once the farm becomes a
drag on any one of us, it ceases to be the nurturing environment *I*
want it to be.
We've done a pretty good job of creating a space where the kids can come
and go as they please, enjoy what they love about it and leave what they
don't. The trick for me has been to find ways to embrace and live my
values... to *own* them... without foisting them on those I love. That
has often created more work for me, and I've found reminding myself that
work is something I *chose* because of the lifestyle I wanted to live...
reminding myself that in doing that work I am meeting my own needs... is
crucially important.
Basically it boils down to the fact that I don't figure I'm making this
world a better place by sowing disharmony and conflict no matter how
many confinement animals I don't eat or how much I reduce my carbon
footprint. There are lots of ways to try to make the world a better
place and I try to do that by acting within my direct sphere of
influence--my family--by keeping our focus on joy and connected
relationships: local action at its finest, in my not so humble opinion.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (12), Julia (11), Sam (9)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Since I was mentioned directly, I figured I'd chime in...
>
> I'm thinking Crystal Miller, Danielle Conger...*snip*
>
> It seems to me at first thought that forcing kids to work in gardens
> or fields isn't any way to make them love cucumbers or okra (thinking
> of two things I was pressed to work on/with as a kid, in different
> situations).
>
Living from a place of fear and guilt has rarely been conducive of
joy--personal or familial--in my experience. Yes, I'm pretty well-versed
and immersed in the whole peak oil argument and have lots of thoughts on
that, which are outside the scope of unschooling discussion (but I've
written lots about it at my farm blog: touchtheearthfarm.blogspot.com ).
That said, however, what I've found to work best in my life is to
embrace my principles as *personal* principles and to live them in ways
that impact my kids' lives in positive ways.
My take on the matter is that if I want them to adopt my principles, and
I'm not entirely sure I do, then the best way for that to happen is for
my kids to associate those principles with comfort and joy, not guilt,
fear, shame, or coercion. I can step back and realize that I got to my
current mode of thinking from a pretty conventional upbringing--if my
journey brought me here, then surely my kids can choose whatever life
path works for them and *perhaps* also get to this place of viewing the
world. Perhaps not, and that's okay with me too because one of my
personal principles is that each person gets to choose his/ her own life
path.
There are lots of ways to live one's own principles without imposing
them on others, and there are lots of ways to remain open to other
points of view. I may not choose to hunt, but I can see the value of
that for other people, my children included. I can listen
enthusiastically and do what I can to support my kids' exploration of
their own values and interests without compromising what matters to
me--there's a separation there that's key, in my opinion. Being able to
view the world through their eyes and not just my own is a way to foster
connection; insisting others adopt my view is a pretty good way to
foster disconnection and conflict.
Life is a journey, and we're constantly in the process of trying things,
stepping back to consider what's working for *all* of us and what's not,
and tweaking things to find solutions that meet *all* of our needs. My
kids love living on the farm because for them it's a source of joy,
interest, and delicious food. We're also finding that it's a source of
dissatisfaction in terms of vacationing and my husband's commute, and
those are problems we're working to address. Once the farm becomes a
drag on any one of us, it ceases to be the nurturing environment *I*
want it to be.
We've done a pretty good job of creating a space where the kids can come
and go as they please, enjoy what they love about it and leave what they
don't. The trick for me has been to find ways to embrace and live my
values... to *own* them... without foisting them on those I love. That
has often created more work for me, and I've found reminding myself that
work is something I *chose* because of the lifestyle I wanted to live...
reminding myself that in doing that work I am meeting my own needs... is
crucially important.
Basically it boils down to the fact that I don't figure I'm making this
world a better place by sowing disharmony and conflict no matter how
many confinement animals I don't eat or how much I reduce my carbon
footprint. There are lots of ways to try to make the world a better
place and I try to do that by acting within my direct sphere of
influence--my family--by keeping our focus on joy and connected
relationships: local action at its finest, in my not so humble opinion.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (12), Julia (11), Sam (9)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah McKee Kelly
"Are there more
out there who unschool their kids and run farms etc? A lot of people
on my group here are interested in growing their own produce, want to
keep junk away from their kids because they believe its hte worst
thing they cna do to the environment etc... i've seen several replies
from you and others to similar questions on your groups. BUt i'm
wondering if there are essays to this effect and also blogs of people
who choose to eat in a certain way and farm etc... but don't mandate
it from their children. This may help our group."
It's funny that you mention this because I was thinking about how our family
seems to be a little bit of an anomaly because we farm and grow specialty
produce (chemical-free) for farmers markets and local restaurants. And we
unschool. And we (gasp) shop at Wal-Mart, drink soda, eat candy and sweets,
and we are fairly big fans of McDonald's -- which puts us at odds with a LOT
of our fellow growers.
When it comes to our *philosophy* or our reasons for doing what we do, we
don't fit the mold, I don't think.
Primarily, we do what we do so that we can be together as a family. As much
as possible.
We spend a lot of time talking about other reasons that we grow things, and
we do avoid killer pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, and we make efforts
to use *sustainable* growing practices -- but you can really get into some
good hair-splitting conversations about such things. So much so that we
don't out and out subscribe to any one *rule* about the way we grow. Nor do
we shun the *big, bad corporations* that are often vilified by those around
us. We do what we do so we can be together. And we like growing stuff.
A lot of our fellow growers do it for political or ideological principles --
they believe whole-heartedly in certain food practices and health and
environmental ideas, and they shun those who don't toe the line. It's VERY
taboo in the circles where we spend most of our time to be seen with a
coffee cup from McDonald's, or a bag from Wal-Mart. I know that we get *tsk
tsk* for my husband's addiction to Coca Cola (he almost always has a can
sitting behind him when he's selling at farmer's markets).
As for our kids' involvement, we don't require them to help, although we
offer them opportunities to earn money on the farm, the same way we offer
other employees opportunities to do so. And the same as it is in the house
-- like, hey would you mind helping me clear the table? -- it's the same on
the farm -- hey, would you guys mind helping move some of these plants into
the greenhouse with us? It's supposed to get cold tonight. (Etc.)
We also don't force any opinions about what's right or wrong environmentally
on anyone -- not our customers, not our friends, not our employees, not our
kids. We don't limit sweets or sodas or *junk food.* We also happen to
have times when we have so much spinach in the field that we're putting
spinach in every recipe we can think of. It's kind of a game with us -- and
we laugh about it, and the kids sometimes enjoy it and eat it, and sometimes
they don't. I think we are pretty even-keeled and we remain open to
questions about what is *good* for the earth or what is *healthy* for
humans. My husband, who is one hell of a grower, meets every claim about
health, sustainability, and the environment with lots of skepticism, and, I
think, a scientist's mind. I have become much more skeptical about such
claims as well. We have had some pretty interesting conversations about
what is *right* and what is *wrong.* There's definitely a popular mind-set
at the markets and among other growers about how things should be done.
I guess we treat it the same as we treat anything else. We are not
registered members of any political party; we just aren't ideologues (is
that the word?) -- we do lots of research and take a long time to make up
our minds, on almost every topic. And our kids see us going through those
thought processes.
It's hard not to *use* the farm as a place for learning, but we try to let
it happen naturally. Julian, our 9-year-old, was helping pull up tomato
stakes a couple days ago with this little device we have -- it's a simple
machine, using a lever, and it makes it easy for anybody to pull up the
stakes. Those stakes are otherwise impossible to get out of the ground.
So, we did an impromptu *lesson* on leverage and why the device makes it
possible for us to easily pull up the stakes. He was interested. He ended
up looking up some stuff online about levers, and he went around trying to
find stuff that was too heavy for him to lift, and then using sticks and
shovels and whatnot, balanced on a rock or something as a fulcrum, to see if
it was easier to lift them. I love that kind of stuff.
My husband and I have always loved growing things -- that's what brought us
together. He lived for awhile in I guess what you might call a more
mainstream situation, married to his first wife, working a fairly lucrative
9-5 job, after getting all the *important* higher education that was
expected of him. He was miserable, and spent his evenings growing things.
I lived for awhile in that mainstream world, too, getting lots and lots of
education, seeking a *legitimate* living in an office, believing that one
day I'd get the time and space to grow stuff in my free time. Each of us,
my hubby and I, experienced separately something fairly significant and
shattering -- I got cancer in 2003, before I knew him. He got dumped by his
wife, who was cheating on him, around that same time.
I could have taken my cancer diagnosis and become a major health nut,
determining that because I had eaten so much sugar in my life, or consumed
this or that, or breathed this or that, that's why I got cancer (and I did
spend some time in that pursuit) -- but the truth is, I do not know.
Doctors do not know. Nobody knows. And probably won't ever. Thankfully, I
got better after chemo and surgery and stuff. My husband could have taken
the loss of his family life as a reason to work harder, or get religious, or
become a zealot about working out at the gym, or make some other equally
extreme decision.
Instead, he and I both -- still not knowing each other -- decided to pursue
things that we loved. Growing things, and family. I sought out a partner
who was looking for the same thing. We actually met online, and shortly
thereafter we were building compost piles together and planting beans. Now,
four years later, we have a full-fledged business, his two kids from his
first marriage, our baby girl, another one on the way, and a fridge that has
coca cola and chemical-free bok choi in it.
I know some of that back story may seem irrelevant, but I think it explains
a lot about why we do what we do -- it's a lot more about living life
together with your family, and not losing that precious time -- not so much
about fulfilling some ideological principle. Which is why I will keep
drinking my McDonald's coffee (even though I do sometimes hide the cup when
I go to market). :)
Deb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
out there who unschool their kids and run farms etc? A lot of people
on my group here are interested in growing their own produce, want to
keep junk away from their kids because they believe its hte worst
thing they cna do to the environment etc... i've seen several replies
from you and others to similar questions on your groups. BUt i'm
wondering if there are essays to this effect and also blogs of people
who choose to eat in a certain way and farm etc... but don't mandate
it from their children. This may help our group."
It's funny that you mention this because I was thinking about how our family
seems to be a little bit of an anomaly because we farm and grow specialty
produce (chemical-free) for farmers markets and local restaurants. And we
unschool. And we (gasp) shop at Wal-Mart, drink soda, eat candy and sweets,
and we are fairly big fans of McDonald's -- which puts us at odds with a LOT
of our fellow growers.
When it comes to our *philosophy* or our reasons for doing what we do, we
don't fit the mold, I don't think.
Primarily, we do what we do so that we can be together as a family. As much
as possible.
We spend a lot of time talking about other reasons that we grow things, and
we do avoid killer pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, and we make efforts
to use *sustainable* growing practices -- but you can really get into some
good hair-splitting conversations about such things. So much so that we
don't out and out subscribe to any one *rule* about the way we grow. Nor do
we shun the *big, bad corporations* that are often vilified by those around
us. We do what we do so we can be together. And we like growing stuff.
A lot of our fellow growers do it for political or ideological principles --
they believe whole-heartedly in certain food practices and health and
environmental ideas, and they shun those who don't toe the line. It's VERY
taboo in the circles where we spend most of our time to be seen with a
coffee cup from McDonald's, or a bag from Wal-Mart. I know that we get *tsk
tsk* for my husband's addiction to Coca Cola (he almost always has a can
sitting behind him when he's selling at farmer's markets).
As for our kids' involvement, we don't require them to help, although we
offer them opportunities to earn money on the farm, the same way we offer
other employees opportunities to do so. And the same as it is in the house
-- like, hey would you mind helping me clear the table? -- it's the same on
the farm -- hey, would you guys mind helping move some of these plants into
the greenhouse with us? It's supposed to get cold tonight. (Etc.)
We also don't force any opinions about what's right or wrong environmentally
on anyone -- not our customers, not our friends, not our employees, not our
kids. We don't limit sweets or sodas or *junk food.* We also happen to
have times when we have so much spinach in the field that we're putting
spinach in every recipe we can think of. It's kind of a game with us -- and
we laugh about it, and the kids sometimes enjoy it and eat it, and sometimes
they don't. I think we are pretty even-keeled and we remain open to
questions about what is *good* for the earth or what is *healthy* for
humans. My husband, who is one hell of a grower, meets every claim about
health, sustainability, and the environment with lots of skepticism, and, I
think, a scientist's mind. I have become much more skeptical about such
claims as well. We have had some pretty interesting conversations about
what is *right* and what is *wrong.* There's definitely a popular mind-set
at the markets and among other growers about how things should be done.
I guess we treat it the same as we treat anything else. We are not
registered members of any political party; we just aren't ideologues (is
that the word?) -- we do lots of research and take a long time to make up
our minds, on almost every topic. And our kids see us going through those
thought processes.
It's hard not to *use* the farm as a place for learning, but we try to let
it happen naturally. Julian, our 9-year-old, was helping pull up tomato
stakes a couple days ago with this little device we have -- it's a simple
machine, using a lever, and it makes it easy for anybody to pull up the
stakes. Those stakes are otherwise impossible to get out of the ground.
So, we did an impromptu *lesson* on leverage and why the device makes it
possible for us to easily pull up the stakes. He was interested. He ended
up looking up some stuff online about levers, and he went around trying to
find stuff that was too heavy for him to lift, and then using sticks and
shovels and whatnot, balanced on a rock or something as a fulcrum, to see if
it was easier to lift them. I love that kind of stuff.
My husband and I have always loved growing things -- that's what brought us
together. He lived for awhile in I guess what you might call a more
mainstream situation, married to his first wife, working a fairly lucrative
9-5 job, after getting all the *important* higher education that was
expected of him. He was miserable, and spent his evenings growing things.
I lived for awhile in that mainstream world, too, getting lots and lots of
education, seeking a *legitimate* living in an office, believing that one
day I'd get the time and space to grow stuff in my free time. Each of us,
my hubby and I, experienced separately something fairly significant and
shattering -- I got cancer in 2003, before I knew him. He got dumped by his
wife, who was cheating on him, around that same time.
I could have taken my cancer diagnosis and become a major health nut,
determining that because I had eaten so much sugar in my life, or consumed
this or that, or breathed this or that, that's why I got cancer (and I did
spend some time in that pursuit) -- but the truth is, I do not know.
Doctors do not know. Nobody knows. And probably won't ever. Thankfully, I
got better after chemo and surgery and stuff. My husband could have taken
the loss of his family life as a reason to work harder, or get religious, or
become a zealot about working out at the gym, or make some other equally
extreme decision.
Instead, he and I both -- still not knowing each other -- decided to pursue
things that we loved. Growing things, and family. I sought out a partner
who was looking for the same thing. We actually met online, and shortly
thereafter we were building compost piles together and planting beans. Now,
four years later, we have a full-fledged business, his two kids from his
first marriage, our baby girl, another one on the way, and a fridge that has
coca cola and chemical-free bok choi in it.
I know some of that back story may seem irrelevant, but I think it explains
a lot about why we do what we do -- it's a lot more about living life
together with your family, and not losing that precious time -- not so much
about fulfilling some ideological principle. Which is why I will keep
drinking my McDonald's coffee (even though I do sometimes hide the cup when
I go to market). :)
Deb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 4/29/2010 7:03 AM, Danielle Conger wrote:
roadblock to peaceful, supportive, generous, kind, responsible,
conscientious parenting. What I mean is that the mindset that parents
are SUPPOSED to raise children who believe as they do, combined with a
lack of interpersonal intelligence (ability to see through their eyes),
is what interferes with the parent-child relationship.
-pam
> Being able toI'm more and more thinking that not understanding this is THE biggest
> view the world through their eyes and not just my own is a way to foster
> connection; insisting others adopt my view is a pretty good way to
> foster disconnection and conflict.
roadblock to peaceful, supportive, generous, kind, responsible,
conscientious parenting. What I mean is that the mindset that parents
are SUPPOSED to raise children who believe as they do, combined with a
lack of interpersonal intelligence (ability to see through their eyes),
is what interferes with the parent-child relationship.
-pam
Pam Sorooshian
We're not farmers, we're suburbanites. But we have a big back yard and
about 1/4 of it is given to my husband's garden. He's composed and
gardened back there for 25 years - never used any pesticides. We put all
our veggie and fruit waste and egg shells and coffee grounds into the
compost along with grass clippings (no pesticides or other chemicals on
that, either).
My husband always wished that the kids would get out there and work with
him in his big garden, but they seldom did, over the years. But - lo and
behold - Roya has her own house now and has a big garden of her own
which she LOVES to work in. And she has fruit trees and she has made
tons of marmalade, recently. Now she and her dad talk gardening all the
time.
There were a few times, over the years, that my husband kind of had the
urge to force the kids to work in the garden. But the urge passed
quickly and he never carried through on it. I doubt that if he'd forced
Roya to work in his garden, she'd be so into gardening now and they'd be
having this cool aspect to their relationship. She's 24, by the way.
-pam
about 1/4 of it is given to my husband's garden. He's composed and
gardened back there for 25 years - never used any pesticides. We put all
our veggie and fruit waste and egg shells and coffee grounds into the
compost along with grass clippings (no pesticides or other chemicals on
that, either).
My husband always wished that the kids would get out there and work with
him in his big garden, but they seldom did, over the years. But - lo and
behold - Roya has her own house now and has a big garden of her own
which she LOVES to work in. And she has fruit trees and she has made
tons of marmalade, recently. Now she and her dad talk gardening all the
time.
There were a few times, over the years, that my husband kind of had the
urge to force the kids to work in the garden. But the urge passed
quickly and he never carried through on it. I doubt that if he'd forced
Roya to work in his garden, she'd be so into gardening now and they'd be
having this cool aspect to their relationship. She's 24, by the way.
-pam
Don & Louisa
We farm, we eat pretty normally siding towards natural and organic, but
sweets and ice cream are consumed....can't make myself take the kids to
McDonalds unless it's a LOOOOOOOOOONG rainy winter day and I'm at my wits
end....they like the play ground....Given a fast food choice they choose
subway for a sandwich!
www.ashberryfarm.ca
farmzoo.blogspot.com
Louisa,
mama of three boys....
sweets and ice cream are consumed....can't make myself take the kids to
McDonalds unless it's a LOOOOOOOOOONG rainy winter day and I'm at my wits
end....they like the play ground....Given a fast food choice they choose
subway for a sandwich!
www.ashberryfarm.ca
farmzoo.blogspot.com
Louisa,
mama of three boys....
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>wrote:
>
>
> We're not farmers, we're suburbanites. But we have a big back yard and
> about 1/4 of it is given to my husband's garden. He's composed and
> gardened back there for 25 years - never used any pesticides. We put all
> our veggie and fruit waste and egg shells and coffee grounds into the
> compost along with grass clippings (no pesticides or other chemicals on
> that, either).
>
> My husband always wished that the kids would get out there and work with
> him in his big garden, but they seldom did, over the years. But - lo and
> behold - Roya has her own house now and has a big garden of her own
> which she LOVES to work in. And she has fruit trees and she has made
> tons of marmalade, recently. Now she and her dad talk gardening all the
> time.
>
> There were a few times, over the years, that my husband kind of had the
> urge to force the kids to work in the garden. But the urge passed
> quickly and he never carried through on it. I doubt that if he'd forced
> Roya to work in his garden, she'd be so into gardening now and they'd be
> having this cool aspect to their relationship. She's 24, by the way.
>
> -pam
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle Conger
On 4/29/10 10:32 PM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
of young children (and I've been there!), get caught up in the idea of
doing everything "perfectly" in order to churn out the "perfect" human
being. It's like the idea of giving the best to our kids gone awry. I've
noticed that parents of always unschooled kids don't have to deschool
quite as much as they need to de-perfection-ize. ;) Of course that's all
our own school and cultural baggage that we need to work
through--luckily the kids are pretty damned perfect just the way they
are! Learning to see that is the key, for sure.
~~Danielle
Emily (12), Julia (11), Sam (9)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>That combined with the idea of perfection: I think parents, especially
> On 4/29/2010 7:03 AM, Danielle Conger wrote:
> > Being able to
> > view the world through their eyes and not just my own is a way to foster
> > connection; insisting others adopt my view is a pretty good way to
> > foster disconnection and conflict.
>
> I'm more and more thinking that not understanding this is THE biggest
> roadblock to peaceful, supportive, generous, kind, responsible,
> conscientious parenting. What I mean is that the mindset that parents
> are SUPPOSED to raise children who believe as they do, combined with a
> lack of interpersonal intelligence (ability to see through their eyes),
> is what interferes with the parent-child relationship.
>
of young children (and I've been there!), get caught up in the idea of
doing everything "perfectly" in order to churn out the "perfect" human
being. It's like the idea of giving the best to our kids gone awry. I've
noticed that parents of always unschooled kids don't have to deschool
quite as much as they need to de-perfection-ize. ;) Of course that's all
our own school and cultural baggage that we need to work
through--luckily the kids are pretty damned perfect just the way they
are! Learning to see that is the key, for sure.
> ,_._,___--
~~Danielle
Emily (12), Julia (11), Sam (9)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keetry
> I'm more and more thinking that not understanding this is THE biggestI think that's what interferes with every kind of relationship. People don't understand that you can disagree and still get along. Not everyone has to think the same as you do. We automatically expect others to think and do the way we do. I think that is an instinctive survival tool. If you agree with others in a group, you are more likely to be accepted, provided for and protected. So if the family is part of some group, church, community, clan, their children will be safer if they agree with the others in the group. If they disagree, they risk being rejected and ostracized. The parents think they are protecting their children by trying to make them believe whatever their group believes because it's safe for the parents.
> roadblock to peaceful, supportive, generous, kind, responsible,
> conscientious parenting. What I mean is that the mindset that parents
> are SUPPOSED to raise children who believe as they do, combined with a
> lack of interpersonal intelligence (ability to see through their eyes),
> is what interferes with the parent-child relationship.
Alysia
sorschasmom
Backyard Food Production and sustainability are my hobbies not Dave's or Sorscha's. Before we even considered moving to a place with more land, we all discussed that this was my passion. During that conversation, Dave said that he was willing to help with odd building, lifting, guy-stuff, etc. (to support my passion) but that he wanted no part in any daily grind. Sorscha said that she might help, but probably not.
I have kept that initial conversation in mind whenever I make choices about this particular aspect of our lifestyle. If I can't do it or take care of it ALONE, then I don't add it.
As for traveling, Dave agreed that when Sorscha and I are away that he would also need to be able to take care of everything on his own another factor that I consider in my choices.
Another consideration is that Sorscha is an only child. I know that the majority of the daily grind part needs to take place before she wakes up in the morning or once Dave is home. I tend to do my canning and processing on the weekends so that she continues to have my full attention. And no, she does not have any desires to piddle around in the kitchen with me - Though she does enjoy crawling like an animal around the garden and taking bites out of produce.
I like that both Dave & Sorscha enjoy our lifestyle and its benefits. Because of our initial conversation regarding my passion and them setting their boundaries, we have created a great life.
Crystal in New Mexico
I have kept that initial conversation in mind whenever I make choices about this particular aspect of our lifestyle. If I can't do it or take care of it ALONE, then I don't add it.
As for traveling, Dave agreed that when Sorscha and I are away that he would also need to be able to take care of everything on his own another factor that I consider in my choices.
Another consideration is that Sorscha is an only child. I know that the majority of the daily grind part needs to take place before she wakes up in the morning or once Dave is home. I tend to do my canning and processing on the weekends so that she continues to have my full attention. And no, she does not have any desires to piddle around in the kitchen with me - Though she does enjoy crawling like an animal around the garden and taking bites out of produce.
I like that both Dave & Sorscha enjoy our lifestyle and its benefits. Because of our initial conversation regarding my passion and them setting their boundaries, we have created a great life.
Crystal in New Mexico
k
Danielle and her FB quotables! Love this: "... luckily the kids are
pretty damned perfect just the way they are! Learning to see that is
the key, for sure."
~Katherine
pretty damned perfect just the way they are! Learning to see that is
the key, for sure."
~Katherine
On 4/30/10, Danielle Conger <danielle.conger@...> wrote:
> On 4/29/10 10:32 PM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
>>
>> On 4/29/2010 7:03 AM, Danielle Conger wrote:
>> > Being able to
>> > view the world through their eyes and not just my own is a way to foster
>> > connection; insisting others adopt my view is a pretty good way to
>> > foster disconnection and conflict.
>>
>> I'm more and more thinking that not understanding this is THE biggest
>> roadblock to peaceful, supportive, generous, kind, responsible,
>> conscientious parenting. What I mean is that the mindset that parents
>> are SUPPOSED to raise children who believe as they do, combined with a
>> lack of interpersonal intelligence (ability to see through their eyes),
>> is what interferes with the parent-child relationship.
>>
>
> That combined with the idea of perfection: I think parents, especially
> of young children (and I've been there!), get caught up in the idea of
> doing everything "perfectly" in order to churn out the "perfect" human
> being. It's like the idea of giving the best to our kids gone awry. I've
> noticed that parents of always unschooled kids don't have to deschool
> quite as much as they need to de-perfection-ize. ;) Of course that's all
> our own school and cultural baggage that we need to work
> through--luckily the kids are pretty damned perfect just the way they
> are! Learning to see that is the key, for sure.
>> ,_._,___
>
>
> --
> ~~Danielle
> Emily (12), Julia (11), Sam (9)
> http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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