Bringing TV in, and other things
shirarocklin
Hi everyone,
To refresh: I have a daughter turning 4 in one month, and a 14 month old son. I think we started applying the principles of unschooling in our family back in December/January (but were basically doing much of it even before that).
A positive: We decided to let go of fears around candy, sweets, etc... and have started buying snackfoods when our daughter asks, when we can afford. She seems fairly accepting of our finances, although still with some unhappiness when we really can't afford all the things she wants. We started out with a bag of lollipops, and that was the clincher for us (my husband and I) - when she started doling them out, eating as many or as little as she wanted, and by the end of the bag there was one lonely lolli left and she just didn't want it. I finally ate it. So, while we still get fustrated when she won't eat ANYTHING, we aren't worried about sweets. That was liberating.
I recently showed her some television. We watched together various clips on Youtube (Barney, acrobatics, Elmo, Yoga for kids, synchronized swimming, etc) and she loved that. It was very interactive for us. Then I realized there was streaming episodes of Dora and Diego and other such shows in the NickJr website and we watched a lot of that together. I actually enjoyed a lot of the content on Diego and Dora shows. I have been putting on shows at her request, not denying her for no good reason (sometimes I'm changing a diaper or otherwise unable).
Over the past month, though, she has become very possessive of the computer/TV. Any delay on our part is received with a strong emotional reaction. Before, if I needed to do something quick on the computer, she would be happy to pause the show for me. And I didn't abuse that kindness. But now she gets upset. She is watching for much longer periods, the same shows over and over. She does come away sometimes and says she got bored. She also doesn't want to watch the youtube clips she liked before, nor the library talking book program that she loved.
Recently she's been telling us not to watch with her, and not even to look at her or the screen from across the room while she is watching. I also can't use the computer at all during the day, can't quickly check email or anything, without her insisting on watching a show. She used to come away from the TV for dinner, if we told her we would wait until she was done watching her show. Now she doesn't want to, just wants to keep watching episode after episode. I have brought her meals to the TV as well, but dinner is the only time that daddy gets to be with us all, so we'd like to have her there. (Maybe we should all sit and watch while we eat together...)
All of this behavior, the increasing time of watching, the emotional outbursts around it, etc... have my husband (and me a little bit) concerned. I think we imagined this would be like the lollipops, she would gorge a bit and then return to mostly the way she was before. I frankly thought the candy would take much longer for her to get over, since she's known about candy but not had much. TV didn't even exist for her really.
From one perspective, I feel like just getting a television screen for her, so I can use the computer while she watches something (my husband is resistant to having a real TV though). On the other hand, I feel like I'm already leaning on the TV as a babysitter, cleaning and stuff while she watches (the baby plays by himself pretty well sometimes), and getting a real TV might just increase all of this. I'd rather be playing with her, like we used to. I feel guilt at not finding lots of exciting things for us to explore together... and when I do offer something she often says no. And it seems like the things she would want to do are things the baby tears apart, and she refused to let me move us to a higher surface to keep him away.
On a tangent, in general she's gotten shorter tempered, more prone to tantrum, less patient with her brother, etc... since the TV shows came into her life. Leaves me wondering a bit, since we've been more attentive, said more 'yes,' been generally the most flexible ever during this period, and played so much more. Until the TV shows, life had begun to be so enjoyable with the three of us at home during the days, filled with lots of activities, outings, friends, etc.
I don't know whats going on. Can anyone offer some insight? Is this just a developmental change in her? Normal change for 3-4 year olds?
Thanks,
Shira
To refresh: I have a daughter turning 4 in one month, and a 14 month old son. I think we started applying the principles of unschooling in our family back in December/January (but were basically doing much of it even before that).
A positive: We decided to let go of fears around candy, sweets, etc... and have started buying snackfoods when our daughter asks, when we can afford. She seems fairly accepting of our finances, although still with some unhappiness when we really can't afford all the things she wants. We started out with a bag of lollipops, and that was the clincher for us (my husband and I) - when she started doling them out, eating as many or as little as she wanted, and by the end of the bag there was one lonely lolli left and she just didn't want it. I finally ate it. So, while we still get fustrated when she won't eat ANYTHING, we aren't worried about sweets. That was liberating.
I recently showed her some television. We watched together various clips on Youtube (Barney, acrobatics, Elmo, Yoga for kids, synchronized swimming, etc) and she loved that. It was very interactive for us. Then I realized there was streaming episodes of Dora and Diego and other such shows in the NickJr website and we watched a lot of that together. I actually enjoyed a lot of the content on Diego and Dora shows. I have been putting on shows at her request, not denying her for no good reason (sometimes I'm changing a diaper or otherwise unable).
Over the past month, though, she has become very possessive of the computer/TV. Any delay on our part is received with a strong emotional reaction. Before, if I needed to do something quick on the computer, she would be happy to pause the show for me. And I didn't abuse that kindness. But now she gets upset. She is watching for much longer periods, the same shows over and over. She does come away sometimes and says she got bored. She also doesn't want to watch the youtube clips she liked before, nor the library talking book program that she loved.
Recently she's been telling us not to watch with her, and not even to look at her or the screen from across the room while she is watching. I also can't use the computer at all during the day, can't quickly check email or anything, without her insisting on watching a show. She used to come away from the TV for dinner, if we told her we would wait until she was done watching her show. Now she doesn't want to, just wants to keep watching episode after episode. I have brought her meals to the TV as well, but dinner is the only time that daddy gets to be with us all, so we'd like to have her there. (Maybe we should all sit and watch while we eat together...)
All of this behavior, the increasing time of watching, the emotional outbursts around it, etc... have my husband (and me a little bit) concerned. I think we imagined this would be like the lollipops, she would gorge a bit and then return to mostly the way she was before. I frankly thought the candy would take much longer for her to get over, since she's known about candy but not had much. TV didn't even exist for her really.
From one perspective, I feel like just getting a television screen for her, so I can use the computer while she watches something (my husband is resistant to having a real TV though). On the other hand, I feel like I'm already leaning on the TV as a babysitter, cleaning and stuff while she watches (the baby plays by himself pretty well sometimes), and getting a real TV might just increase all of this. I'd rather be playing with her, like we used to. I feel guilt at not finding lots of exciting things for us to explore together... and when I do offer something she often says no. And it seems like the things she would want to do are things the baby tears apart, and she refused to let me move us to a higher surface to keep him away.
On a tangent, in general she's gotten shorter tempered, more prone to tantrum, less patient with her brother, etc... since the TV shows came into her life. Leaves me wondering a bit, since we've been more attentive, said more 'yes,' been generally the most flexible ever during this period, and played so much more. Until the TV shows, life had begun to be so enjoyable with the three of us at home during the days, filled with lots of activities, outings, friends, etc.
I don't know whats going on. Can anyone offer some insight? Is this just a developmental change in her? Normal change for 3-4 year olds?
Thanks,
Shira
Sandra Dodd
-=-From one perspective, I feel like just getting a television screen
for her, so I can use the computer while she watches something (my
husband is resistant to having a real TV though). On the other hand, I
feel like I'm already leaning on the TV as a babysitter, cleaning and
stuff while she watches (the baby plays by himself pretty well
sometimes), and getting a real TV might just increase all of this.-=-
If she's watching kids' shows and things that are on DVD, or that you
could TIVO, it seems having a real TV would be better. She wouldn't
be sitting so close, she could play or draw while the shows are on
(not as easy with a laptop, or whatever computer you're using,
probably) and it wouldn't keep you from using the computer when you
want to.
If you think of it as "leaning on the TV as a babysitter," it sounds
bad. If she has the option to turn the TV off and come and be with
you, it's not a babysitter. It's one of many things she can choose
from. It's something from which she can learn, and something that can
amuse her. She can learn songs, get ideas for projects and play.
If you decide on principles instead of rules, then you don't need to
make a new rule about TV. You can look at her desire to watch a
cartoon or a program as a learning opportunity for her, or as
something she's exploring or thinking about.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
for her, so I can use the computer while she watches something (my
husband is resistant to having a real TV though). On the other hand, I
feel like I'm already leaning on the TV as a babysitter, cleaning and
stuff while she watches (the baby plays by himself pretty well
sometimes), and getting a real TV might just increase all of this.-=-
If she's watching kids' shows and things that are on DVD, or that you
could TIVO, it seems having a real TV would be better. She wouldn't
be sitting so close, she could play or draw while the shows are on
(not as easy with a laptop, or whatever computer you're using,
probably) and it wouldn't keep you from using the computer when you
want to.
If you think of it as "leaning on the TV as a babysitter," it sounds
bad. If she has the option to turn the TV off and come and be with
you, it's not a babysitter. It's one of many things she can choose
from. It's something from which she can learn, and something that can
amuse her. She can learn songs, get ideas for projects and play.
If you decide on principles instead of rules, then you don't need to
make a new rule about TV. You can look at her desire to watch a
cartoon or a program as a learning opportunity for her, or as
something she's exploring or thinking about.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John and Amanda Slater
-=-From one perspective, I feel like just getting a television screen
for her, so I can use the computer while she watches something (my
husband is resistant to having a real TV though).
****
As a compromise between TV and computer you might want to look into a roku viewer http://http://www.netflix.com/NetflixReadyDevicesDetails?trkid=1473818&lnkctr=nrd-d-m-2-rokudigitalvideoplayer&pdid=2&lnkce=nrd-d. The devise is a small box with a remote that wirelessly streams movies and shows. It is part of Netflix. It works by adding shows to a queue and then they can be accessed on a tv screen. She would only have access to shows you preselect and unlike a DVD it only plays one episode before it shows the menu. The remote only has 8 buttons and would be perfect for little fingers. It also holds your last watching spot exactly if it gets turned off. It might give her some choice and control, but not free-for-all on the TV.
In my house, I find the more natural breaks between watching helps everyone move away from the TV for a while. It is much easier to ask for their attention at the end of an episode. Once they have started a disc of shows, they often want to watch them all. Each time the menu comes back up, they choose again whether or not to continue watching.
Amanda
Eli 9, Samuel 7
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
for her, so I can use the computer while she watches something (my
husband is resistant to having a real TV though).
****
As a compromise between TV and computer you might want to look into a roku viewer http://http://www.netflix.com/NetflixReadyDevicesDetails?trkid=1473818&lnkctr=nrd-d-m-2-rokudigitalvideoplayer&pdid=2&lnkce=nrd-d. The devise is a small box with a remote that wirelessly streams movies and shows. It is part of Netflix. It works by adding shows to a queue and then they can be accessed on a tv screen. She would only have access to shows you preselect and unlike a DVD it only plays one episode before it shows the menu. The remote only has 8 buttons and would be perfect for little fingers. It also holds your last watching spot exactly if it gets turned off. It might give her some choice and control, but not free-for-all on the TV.
In my house, I find the more natural breaks between watching helps everyone move away from the TV for a while. It is much easier to ask for their attention at the end of an episode. Once they have started a disc of shows, they often want to watch them all. Each time the menu comes back up, they choose again whether or not to continue watching.
Amanda
Eli 9, Samuel 7
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bernadette Lynn
On 13 April 2010 02:36, shirarocklin <shirarocklin@...> wrote:
later is one of those clichés of parenting that people laugh fondly about,
yet for some reason if a child wants the same kind of repetition with a TV
show that often seems to be presented as a bad thing. To me it seems like
exactly the same thing.
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> She is watching for much longer periods, the same shows over and over.Reading stories over and over until you can recite them in your sleep years
later is one of those clichés of parenting that people laugh fondly about,
yet for some reason if a child wants the same kind of repetition with a TV
show that often seems to be presented as a bad thing. To me it seems like
exactly the same thing.
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Offer shows to watch together. Don't rest on your laurels, don't wait for an invitation, be more engaged and engaging with her. The shorter temper is probably unrelated to watching shows and is more about the lack of direct care. That sounds harsh, but my guess is that because she isn't demanding attention things like feeding her and making sure she isn't thirsty are going more by the wayside than they would if she was hanging out with you more. Bring her platters and drinks, make up smoothies or chocolate milk or a lassi and sit it next to her and touch her head and ask if you can watch the show with her. Ask to share what she is enjoying instead of coming over to check e-mail or look something up on-line. Make an effort to connect with her more and more.
It's kind of nice when a child is so engaged with something you can do other things, your own things. It is easy to get in the habit of doing things that aren't about the child, aren't about your relationship with the child, taking care of their needs, making sure that food and drink and love and affection are part of their day. And the less you work to connect the more it becomes a habit. Last night I was in doing the dishes and out the window I could see David and Simon and Linnaea playing a game of freeze tag (stuck in the mud) and I watched for a couple of minutes and then put down the dishes and went outside and played. Making an effort to move outside your own progression through the day to engage with your daughter will make a huge difference, huge difference, to her mood, to her response to you.
Schuyler
________________________________
Over the past month, though, she has become very possessive of the computer/TV. Any delay on our part is received with a strong emotional reaction. Before, if I needed to do something quick on the computer, she would be happy to pause the show for me. And I didn't abuse that kindness. But now she gets upset. She is watching for much longer periods, the same shows over and over. She does come away sometimes and says she got bored. She also doesn't want to watch the youtube clips she liked before, nor the library talking book program that she loved.
Recently she's been telling us not to watch with her, and not even to look at her or the screen from across the room while she is watching. I also can't use the computer at all during the day, can't quickly check email or anything, without her insisting on watching a show. She used to come away from the TV for dinner, if we told her we would wait until she was done watching her show. Now she doesn't want to, just wants to keep watching episode after episode. I have brought her meals to the TV as well, but dinner is the only time that daddy gets to be with us all, so we'd like to have her there. (Maybe we should all sit and watch while we eat together...)
All of this behavior, the increasing time of watching, the emotional outbursts around it, etc... have my husband (and me a little bit) concerned. I think we imagined this would be like the lollipops, she would gorge a bit and then return to mostly the way she was before. I frankly thought the candy would take much longer for her to get over, since she's known about candy but not had much. TV didn't even exist for her really.
From one perspective, I feel like just getting a television screen for her, so I can use the computer while she watches something (my husband is resistant to having a real TV though). On the other hand, I feel like I'm already leaning on the TV as a babysitter, cleaning and stuff while she watches (the baby plays by himself pretty well sometimes), and getting a real TV might just increase all of this. I'd rather be playing with her, like we used to. I feel guilt at not finding lots of exciting things for us to explore together... and when I do offer something she often says no. And it seems like the things she would want to do are things the baby tears apart, and she refused to let me move us to a higher surface to keep him away.
On a tangent, in general she's gotten shorter tempered, more prone to tantrum, less patient with her brother, etc... since the TV shows came into her life. Leaves me wondering a bit, since we've been more attentive, said more 'yes,' been generally the most flexible ever during this period, and played so much more. Until the TV shows, life had begun to be so enjoyable with the three of us at home during the days, filled with lots of activities, outings, friends, etc.
I don't know whats going on. Can anyone offer some insight? Is this just a developmental change in her? Normal change for 3-4 year olds?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's kind of nice when a child is so engaged with something you can do other things, your own things. It is easy to get in the habit of doing things that aren't about the child, aren't about your relationship with the child, taking care of their needs, making sure that food and drink and love and affection are part of their day. And the less you work to connect the more it becomes a habit. Last night I was in doing the dishes and out the window I could see David and Simon and Linnaea playing a game of freeze tag (stuck in the mud) and I watched for a couple of minutes and then put down the dishes and went outside and played. Making an effort to move outside your own progression through the day to engage with your daughter will make a huge difference, huge difference, to her mood, to her response to you.
Schuyler
________________________________
Over the past month, though, she has become very possessive of the computer/TV. Any delay on our part is received with a strong emotional reaction. Before, if I needed to do something quick on the computer, she would be happy to pause the show for me. And I didn't abuse that kindness. But now she gets upset. She is watching for much longer periods, the same shows over and over. She does come away sometimes and says she got bored. She also doesn't want to watch the youtube clips she liked before, nor the library talking book program that she loved.
Recently she's been telling us not to watch with her, and not even to look at her or the screen from across the room while she is watching. I also can't use the computer at all during the day, can't quickly check email or anything, without her insisting on watching a show. She used to come away from the TV for dinner, if we told her we would wait until she was done watching her show. Now she doesn't want to, just wants to keep watching episode after episode. I have brought her meals to the TV as well, but dinner is the only time that daddy gets to be with us all, so we'd like to have her there. (Maybe we should all sit and watch while we eat together...)
All of this behavior, the increasing time of watching, the emotional outbursts around it, etc... have my husband (and me a little bit) concerned. I think we imagined this would be like the lollipops, she would gorge a bit and then return to mostly the way she was before. I frankly thought the candy would take much longer for her to get over, since she's known about candy but not had much. TV didn't even exist for her really.
From one perspective, I feel like just getting a television screen for her, so I can use the computer while she watches something (my husband is resistant to having a real TV though). On the other hand, I feel like I'm already leaning on the TV as a babysitter, cleaning and stuff while she watches (the baby plays by himself pretty well sometimes), and getting a real TV might just increase all of this. I'd rather be playing with her, like we used to. I feel guilt at not finding lots of exciting things for us to explore together... and when I do offer something she often says no. And it seems like the things she would want to do are things the baby tears apart, and she refused to let me move us to a higher surface to keep him away.
On a tangent, in general she's gotten shorter tempered, more prone to tantrum, less patient with her brother, etc... since the TV shows came into her life. Leaves me wondering a bit, since we've been more attentive, said more 'yes,' been generally the most flexible ever during this period, and played so much more. Until the TV shows, life had begun to be so enjoyable with the three of us at home during the days, filled with lots of activities, outings, friends, etc.
I don't know whats going on. Can anyone offer some insight? Is this just a developmental change in her? Normal change for 3-4 year olds?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-> She is watching for much longer periods, the same shows over and
over.
-=-Reading stories over and over until you can recite them in your
sleep years
later is one of those clichés of parenting that people laugh fondly
about,
yet for some reason if a child wants the same kind of repetition with
a TV
show that often seems to be presented as a bad thing. -=-
Yes. I've had adult friends who rolled their eyes at anyone watching
a movie repeatedly, but I could name music albums they knew note by
note from listening to them dozens of times. There is so much more to
see or to miss in a movie than a CD, but still, the prejudice exists.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
over.
-=-Reading stories over and over until you can recite them in your
sleep years
later is one of those clichés of parenting that people laugh fondly
about,
yet for some reason if a child wants the same kind of repetition with
a TV
show that often seems to be presented as a bad thing. -=-
Yes. I've had adult friends who rolled their eyes at anyone watching
a movie repeatedly, but I could name music albums they knew note by
note from listening to them dozens of times. There is so much more to
see or to miss in a movie than a CD, but still, the prejudice exists.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
>Also true of music and song. Michelle used to like to listen to the
> Reading stories over and over until you can recite them in your
> sleep years
> later is one of those clichés of parenting that people laugh fondly
> about,
> yet for some reason if a child wants the same kind of repetition
> with a TV
> show that often seems to be presented as a bad thing. To me it seems
> like
> exactly the same thing.
same songs over and over in the car. Without me singing them <g>, so
she could hear and understand the words and music with no interference.
She has a pretty good ear and loves to sing along when listening to
her iPod. She's learned Japanese songs that way, listening over and
over again.
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Karl goes through cycles. He watches a LOT of tv, or hulu/netflix as
the case actually is, but it's fed into a big screen tv in the living
room. I have a mac computer in the room next to it and I keep meaning
to try putting my computer into the living room too but I haven't
because sometimes it's convenient (like when Brian is sleeping) to
have separate rooms with different things on, one for Brian and one
for me and/or Karl. That and the outlets in this house are few and far
between (technical difficulties).
Right now, Karl is bored with tv and wanting something different to
do. It used to be when he was younger, he wanted suggestions for what
to do along with or different from watching tv and he still wants
suggestions sometimes. Now that he is older, he also comes up with
stuff. Right now he's playing the Bad Magician who stole the Magic
Dagger... it's a story he composed to go with his Prince of Persia
legos.
~Katherine
the case actually is, but it's fed into a big screen tv in the living
room. I have a mac computer in the room next to it and I keep meaning
to try putting my computer into the living room too but I haven't
because sometimes it's convenient (like when Brian is sleeping) to
have separate rooms with different things on, one for Brian and one
for me and/or Karl. That and the outlets in this house are few and far
between (technical difficulties).
Right now, Karl is bored with tv and wanting something different to
do. It used to be when he was younger, he wanted suggestions for what
to do along with or different from watching tv and he still wants
suggestions sometimes. Now that he is older, he also comes up with
stuff. Right now he's playing the Bad Magician who stole the Magic
Dagger... it's a story he composed to go with his Prince of Persia
legos.
~Katherine
On 4/12/10, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-From one perspective, I feel like just getting a television screen
> for her, so I can use the computer while she watches something (my
> husband is resistant to having a real TV though). On the other hand, I
> feel like I'm already leaning on the TV as a babysitter, cleaning and
> stuff while she watches (the baby plays by himself pretty well
> sometimes), and getting a real TV might just increase all of this.-=-
>
> If she's watching kids' shows and things that are on DVD, or that you
> could TIVO, it seems having a real TV would be better. She wouldn't
> be sitting so close, she could play or draw while the shows are on
> (not as easy with a laptop, or whatever computer you're using,
> probably) and it wouldn't keep you from using the computer when you
> want to.
>
> If you think of it as "leaning on the TV as a babysitter," it sounds
> bad. If she has the option to turn the TV off and come and be with
> you, it's not a babysitter. It's one of many things she can choose
> from. It's something from which she can learn, and something that can
> amuse her. She can learn songs, get ideas for projects and play.
>
> If you decide on principles instead of rules, then you don't need to
> make a new rule about TV. You can look at her desire to watch a
> cartoon or a program as a learning opportunity for her, or as
> something she's exploring or thinking about.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
shirarocklin
Hello again,
I'm resurrecting this thread I started... as we got caught up in real life and I didn't have time to think and respond to what everyone wrote.
I have a nearly 4 year old and a 15 month old. We've been practicing Attachment Parenting from the beginning, and now morphed into unschooling in the past 6 months or so.
Sandra wrote that having a real TV (rather than our laptop) would allow her to not sit so close, and be able to play at the same time as watching, if she chose. This definitely sounds true... but we're somewhat afraid to take that step when we still are on the fence about whether we want to have a television at all (me and husband that is). Temima has never asked for TV or a TV Set yet. We don't want to move forward, and then decide its not for us, and then decide to take it away. So Joseph and I have decided to take things slowly (since she isn't asking for a TV set anyhow) for now.
and, " If she has the option to turn the TV off and come and be with
you, it's not a babysitter. It's one of many things she can choose
from. It's something from which she can learn, and something that can
amuse her. She can learn songs, get ideas for projects and play."
Last week, we went to the mall to return something. I thought it was going to rain, so we walked instead of me biking with the children in our trailer. Temima wanted to start out walking and ride in the stroller when she would get tired. She didn't get tire! Its a long walk. Wow. So, along the way she started picking dandelions, and then dropping them like Hansel and Gretel so we could find our way home. That was lovely. Then we somehow started talking/acting out a Dora episode (about getting chocolate from chocolate trees), and spent much of the walk harvesting chocolate. It was lots of fun. I do see the potential in her experiences with TV. It is lovely in those moments.
I wrote: She is watching for much longer periods, the same shows over and over.
Bernadette wrote: Reading stories over and over until you can recite them in your sleep years later is one of those clichés of parenting that people laugh fondly about, yet for some reason if a child wants the same kind of repetition with a TV show that often seems to be presented as a bad thing. To me it seems like exactly the same thing.
Its similar. But when we're reading books over and over, we are reading the books. The voice is mine, the turning the pages is both of us, the 'can you find the truck?' and 'how many balloons can we see?' part is there. Television can be about our relationship, but it does involve a certain level of 'not direct interaction'. So, I don't quite feel comfortable equating them. But I definitely see the similarity in why children would want to have books, or shows, repeated a lot.
Schuyler wrote:
Offer shows to watch together. Don't rest on your laurels, don't wait for an invitation, be more engaged and engaging with her. The shorter temper is probably unrelated to watching shows and is more about the lack of direct care. That sounds harsh, but my guess is that because she isn't demanding attention things like feeding her and making sure she isn't thirsty are going more by the wayside than they would if she was hanging out with you more. Bring her platters and drinks, make up smoothies or chocolate milk or a lassi and sit it next to
her and touch her head and ask if you can watch the show with her. Ask to share what she is enjoying instead of coming over to check e-mail or look something up on-line. Make an effort to connect with her more and more.
It's kind of nice when a child is so engaged with something you can do other things, your own things. It is easy to get in the habit of doing things that aren't about the child, aren't about your relationship with the child, taking care of their needs, making sure that food and drink and love and affection are part of their day. And the less you work to connect the more it becomes a habit.
------------
In the beginning, it was exciting. There was so much she wanted to watch, and we watched certain youtube videos over an over again. Together. We explored many different topics. We learned how to braid bread. I invited the watching. It was an activity, just like coloring or going to the park. It was great.
Schuyler, you are never harsh (for as long as I've been reading, at least). I'll admit that in the past 2 weeks, there may have been less direct care... because of some of the turmoil I'm feeling. When I originally wrote, I was very engaging and pro-active. I wasn't just stopping in to check email or look something up. I did that (mostly to book wheel-trans for my mother, and then confirm with her nursing home), but I also sat and watched with her often. It was during that time that she started not wanting me to sit with her. It began to look to me as if she was watching in order to occupy herself, rather than for pleasure or learning or fun. I brought her food, played around with the 'monkey platters' a bit, drinks, etc. I played with the baby on the floor in the same room. And I did the same household tasks that I had usually done (very minimal amounts of housework just to keep things going), and that she had usually hung around with me for.
I have some more thoughts, but I'm going to write a seperate post because this is really long.
Thanks,
Shira
I'm resurrecting this thread I started... as we got caught up in real life and I didn't have time to think and respond to what everyone wrote.
I have a nearly 4 year old and a 15 month old. We've been practicing Attachment Parenting from the beginning, and now morphed into unschooling in the past 6 months or so.
Sandra wrote that having a real TV (rather than our laptop) would allow her to not sit so close, and be able to play at the same time as watching, if she chose. This definitely sounds true... but we're somewhat afraid to take that step when we still are on the fence about whether we want to have a television at all (me and husband that is). Temima has never asked for TV or a TV Set yet. We don't want to move forward, and then decide its not for us, and then decide to take it away. So Joseph and I have decided to take things slowly (since she isn't asking for a TV set anyhow) for now.
and, " If she has the option to turn the TV off and come and be with
you, it's not a babysitter. It's one of many things she can choose
from. It's something from which she can learn, and something that can
amuse her. She can learn songs, get ideas for projects and play."
Last week, we went to the mall to return something. I thought it was going to rain, so we walked instead of me biking with the children in our trailer. Temima wanted to start out walking and ride in the stroller when she would get tired. She didn't get tire! Its a long walk. Wow. So, along the way she started picking dandelions, and then dropping them like Hansel and Gretel so we could find our way home. That was lovely. Then we somehow started talking/acting out a Dora episode (about getting chocolate from chocolate trees), and spent much of the walk harvesting chocolate. It was lots of fun. I do see the potential in her experiences with TV. It is lovely in those moments.
I wrote: She is watching for much longer periods, the same shows over and over.
Bernadette wrote: Reading stories over and over until you can recite them in your sleep years later is one of those clichés of parenting that people laugh fondly about, yet for some reason if a child wants the same kind of repetition with a TV show that often seems to be presented as a bad thing. To me it seems like exactly the same thing.
Its similar. But when we're reading books over and over, we are reading the books. The voice is mine, the turning the pages is both of us, the 'can you find the truck?' and 'how many balloons can we see?' part is there. Television can be about our relationship, but it does involve a certain level of 'not direct interaction'. So, I don't quite feel comfortable equating them. But I definitely see the similarity in why children would want to have books, or shows, repeated a lot.
Schuyler wrote:
Offer shows to watch together. Don't rest on your laurels, don't wait for an invitation, be more engaged and engaging with her. The shorter temper is probably unrelated to watching shows and is more about the lack of direct care. That sounds harsh, but my guess is that because she isn't demanding attention things like feeding her and making sure she isn't thirsty are going more by the wayside than they would if she was hanging out with you more. Bring her platters and drinks, make up smoothies or chocolate milk or a lassi and sit it next to
her and touch her head and ask if you can watch the show with her. Ask to share what she is enjoying instead of coming over to check e-mail or look something up on-line. Make an effort to connect with her more and more.
It's kind of nice when a child is so engaged with something you can do other things, your own things. It is easy to get in the habit of doing things that aren't about the child, aren't about your relationship with the child, taking care of their needs, making sure that food and drink and love and affection are part of their day. And the less you work to connect the more it becomes a habit.
------------
In the beginning, it was exciting. There was so much she wanted to watch, and we watched certain youtube videos over an over again. Together. We explored many different topics. We learned how to braid bread. I invited the watching. It was an activity, just like coloring or going to the park. It was great.
Schuyler, you are never harsh (for as long as I've been reading, at least). I'll admit that in the past 2 weeks, there may have been less direct care... because of some of the turmoil I'm feeling. When I originally wrote, I was very engaging and pro-active. I wasn't just stopping in to check email or look something up. I did that (mostly to book wheel-trans for my mother, and then confirm with her nursing home), but I also sat and watched with her often. It was during that time that she started not wanting me to sit with her. It began to look to me as if she was watching in order to occupy herself, rather than for pleasure or learning or fun. I brought her food, played around with the 'monkey platters' a bit, drinks, etc. I played with the baby on the floor in the same room. And I did the same household tasks that I had usually done (very minimal amounts of housework just to keep things going), and that she had usually hung around with me for.
I have some more thoughts, but I'm going to write a seperate post because this is really long.
Thanks,
Shira
shirarocklin
To continue,
Its begun to worry me, that Temima doesn't want to do the things she used to love doing. She loved sitting on the laundry machines and putting the coins in the slots, and carrying the coins downstairs. She loved baking with me. She loved playing with her toys. Reading books. She regularly requested lots of these things, and whatever else she thought up. She liked eating lunch together, me preparing it while she thought of what she wanted to include. Our days felt fuller.
These days, she doesn't want me to come near her when she's watching a show. She spends hours, several times a day. If she isn't watching shows, and I go check my email quickly, or go to cook or clean something small, she'll ask to watch a show. She won't come away from her shows to do the things she really loved before... even at the intervals between shows. She gets really irritated at the baby because he comes and tries to get her to play, pulls on her chair.
I'm confused, really. Its like the times when we do things that are special are still there, but the times when we would be just playing on the floor, or something nice but easy to pass a bit of time, those have disappeared.
Today, for example. We woke up. Her first chosen activity was to watch Kai-lan. She eats breakfast in front of the computer. I take down the diapers to wash - she doesn't want to come put the coins in. I put the baby for a nap (TV makes that easier). She asks to have/make cookies. I invite her to bake with me. She says she wants me to make them while she watches... but she is 'sooo hungry' and can't wait. I offer her some other food and explain that cookies take time to cook. I made lunch. I invited her to eat with me in the kitchen, but she normally refuses these days. Today I came out and sat with her to eat and watch. She didn't push me away, perhaps because of the food involved? After we ate, she did come and help me bake. The baby woke during that, and I put him on my back. A bit later, after the first batch was baked, and she's gone back to watching TV, I look out the window to see city people repainting the road. I get excited, she pauses the show and comes to watch. Then we all decide to go outside... and we end up watching the road crew for and hour or so. We check on our plants too. When we come back in, guess what? She wants to watch TV some more (this is Kai Lan, all day long, a few episodes in rotation). I invite her to help me pick out fabrics for her 'birthday dress' (a much talked about tradition here). She tells me to pick without her!!! (Ok, I was a bit hurt, but thats my problem). So, I brought fabrics out to her, and she did help me pick, pausing the TV for a bit. My memory is going a bit foggy here... but I think she then watched TV while I made some dinner, until daddy got home.
When I read all that (its long, sorry), I see a really full and exciting day. And yet, when there are hours of just sitting in front of the TV, it doesn't feel that way. Those hours used to be filled with playing with toys and puzzles and stuff. And I see that some of this might be that many of the toys and games she wants to play these days are not possible with the baby around (because he wrecks whats on the floor, or wants my attention away from her games if we move to a table top). When he naps (1 hour a day) is the only time for those things. I can't remember the last time we've read books together. That used to happen daily. I feel like I do initiate a lot of activity. Sometimes she really likes something new (using my old stamp collection), but there are still all those hours of the day where she is just sitting and watching. I can't sit with her for that long. The baby needs me too, and there is some housework I have to do to keep things running (not running smoothly, just running at all). I've moved a lot of those tasks to the evenings, but often fall asleep when the kids do because they stay up late several nights a week.
So... it feels like TV is responsible. It feels like TV is bigger and more powerful than me, than life, than toys and playing and books. It feels like its just a magnet, it has a stronger pull. I have to bring something super exciting into the mix, like road work, or a new craft, in order to 'beat' TV. And I know I don't want to think in an adversarial way about it, but its really feeling this way. I can't make every moment super duper exciting! With a 4 and 1 year old, its just really hard to do that. I need to cook some little amount. I need to clean just a tad. There are lots of things to do here, and I mix it up and we try new things, and we get out most days of the week (sometimes too much). I'm very involved. I actually ENJOY our play, its not just me giving her my time.
I guess there is always more to write, so this is enough. I hope I'll be able to continue the conversation without a month's break this time.
Thanks,
Shira
Its begun to worry me, that Temima doesn't want to do the things she used to love doing. She loved sitting on the laundry machines and putting the coins in the slots, and carrying the coins downstairs. She loved baking with me. She loved playing with her toys. Reading books. She regularly requested lots of these things, and whatever else she thought up. She liked eating lunch together, me preparing it while she thought of what she wanted to include. Our days felt fuller.
These days, she doesn't want me to come near her when she's watching a show. She spends hours, several times a day. If she isn't watching shows, and I go check my email quickly, or go to cook or clean something small, she'll ask to watch a show. She won't come away from her shows to do the things she really loved before... even at the intervals between shows. She gets really irritated at the baby because he comes and tries to get her to play, pulls on her chair.
I'm confused, really. Its like the times when we do things that are special are still there, but the times when we would be just playing on the floor, or something nice but easy to pass a bit of time, those have disappeared.
Today, for example. We woke up. Her first chosen activity was to watch Kai-lan. She eats breakfast in front of the computer. I take down the diapers to wash - she doesn't want to come put the coins in. I put the baby for a nap (TV makes that easier). She asks to have/make cookies. I invite her to bake with me. She says she wants me to make them while she watches... but she is 'sooo hungry' and can't wait. I offer her some other food and explain that cookies take time to cook. I made lunch. I invited her to eat with me in the kitchen, but she normally refuses these days. Today I came out and sat with her to eat and watch. She didn't push me away, perhaps because of the food involved? After we ate, she did come and help me bake. The baby woke during that, and I put him on my back. A bit later, after the first batch was baked, and she's gone back to watching TV, I look out the window to see city people repainting the road. I get excited, she pauses the show and comes to watch. Then we all decide to go outside... and we end up watching the road crew for and hour or so. We check on our plants too. When we come back in, guess what? She wants to watch TV some more (this is Kai Lan, all day long, a few episodes in rotation). I invite her to help me pick out fabrics for her 'birthday dress' (a much talked about tradition here). She tells me to pick without her!!! (Ok, I was a bit hurt, but thats my problem). So, I brought fabrics out to her, and she did help me pick, pausing the TV for a bit. My memory is going a bit foggy here... but I think she then watched TV while I made some dinner, until daddy got home.
When I read all that (its long, sorry), I see a really full and exciting day. And yet, when there are hours of just sitting in front of the TV, it doesn't feel that way. Those hours used to be filled with playing with toys and puzzles and stuff. And I see that some of this might be that many of the toys and games she wants to play these days are not possible with the baby around (because he wrecks whats on the floor, or wants my attention away from her games if we move to a table top). When he naps (1 hour a day) is the only time for those things. I can't remember the last time we've read books together. That used to happen daily. I feel like I do initiate a lot of activity. Sometimes she really likes something new (using my old stamp collection), but there are still all those hours of the day where she is just sitting and watching. I can't sit with her for that long. The baby needs me too, and there is some housework I have to do to keep things running (not running smoothly, just running at all). I've moved a lot of those tasks to the evenings, but often fall asleep when the kids do because they stay up late several nights a week.
So... it feels like TV is responsible. It feels like TV is bigger and more powerful than me, than life, than toys and playing and books. It feels like its just a magnet, it has a stronger pull. I have to bring something super exciting into the mix, like road work, or a new craft, in order to 'beat' TV. And I know I don't want to think in an adversarial way about it, but its really feeling this way. I can't make every moment super duper exciting! With a 4 and 1 year old, its just really hard to do that. I need to cook some little amount. I need to clean just a tad. There are lots of things to do here, and I mix it up and we try new things, and we get out most days of the week (sometimes too much). I'm very involved. I actually ENJOY our play, its not just me giving her my time.
I guess there is always more to write, so this is enough. I hope I'll be able to continue the conversation without a month's break this time.
Thanks,
Shira
Sandra Dodd
-=-So... it feels like TV is responsible. It feels like TV is bigger
and more powerful than me, than life, than toys and playing and books.
It feels like its just a magnet, it has a stronger pull.-=-
It can BE life, toys, playing books. It can be one of the happy parts
of her life and yours if you can breathe through this and see it
differently.
-= I can't make every moment super duper exciting! -=-
If the TV is more exciting than you are, then she should watch TV,
right? Aren't you trying to help her choose what is stimulating and
interesting to her?
If you can't be more exciting than what she's watching, shouldn't you
rejoice that she has something more exciting to do?
-=- I actually ENJOY our play, its not just me giving her my time. -=-
Don't make her responsible for your happiness. Don't resent the fact
that she's growing up.
Please don't call YouTube "TV," either. Sharing a computer brings its
own problems. And not being clear about what you're doing and seeing
is plain old lack of clarity.
You can get there. You're in the right place, you're just looking at
things from a squinty-eyed angle, with labels you could remove. If
you look at what is instead of what you're afraid it seems like,
things will be better.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and more powerful than me, than life, than toys and playing and books.
It feels like its just a magnet, it has a stronger pull.-=-
It can BE life, toys, playing books. It can be one of the happy parts
of her life and yours if you can breathe through this and see it
differently.
-= I can't make every moment super duper exciting! -=-
If the TV is more exciting than you are, then she should watch TV,
right? Aren't you trying to help her choose what is stimulating and
interesting to her?
If you can't be more exciting than what she's watching, shouldn't you
rejoice that she has something more exciting to do?
-=- I actually ENJOY our play, its not just me giving her my time. -=-
Don't make her responsible for your happiness. Don't resent the fact
that she's growing up.
Please don't call YouTube "TV," either. Sharing a computer brings its
own problems. And not being clear about what you're doing and seeing
is plain old lack of clarity.
You can get there. You're in the right place, you're just looking at
things from a squinty-eyed angle, with labels you could remove. If
you look at what is instead of what you're afraid it seems like,
things will be better.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
(I thought I had already sent this before, and found it on the
desktop; sorry.)
-=-Its begun to worry me, that Temima doesn't want to do the things
she used to love doing.-=-
She's older, she's growing, she will continue to grow and change.
-=- I take down the diapers to wash - she doesn't want to come put the
coins in. I put the baby for a nap-=-
She's done it before. It was exciting. It was fun because it was new.
-=- I get excited, she pauses the show and comes to watch. Then we all
decide to go outside... and we end up watching the road crew for and
hour or so. We check on our plants too. When we come back in, guess
what? She wants to watch TV some more (this is Kai Lan, all day long,
a few episodes in rotation).-=-
I think the only right answer for you is going to be that she doesn't
want to "watch TV." But you don't have a TV, so I don't think you
should refer to a limited number of short videos as "TV."
Maybe if you could be on the computer near her while she's watching TV
you would both be happier.
-=-When I read all that (its long, sorry), I see a really full and
exciting day. And yet, when there are hours of just sitting in front
of the TV, it doesn't feel that way-=-
No matter how much cool stuff happened, you're focussed on the time
she watched TV. IS she "just sitting in front of the TV"?
You don't have a TV.
IF she's just sitting, it's partly because that's the only good way to
watch a very small screen. If she can't see it from six or eight feet
away, she can't do other things at the same time. And if she's "just
sitting" (not watching? not listening? not thinking/singing/thinking/
learning?) , there are alternatives. I don't think she's "just
sitting in front of the TV" but that's what you're calling it. That's
how you're seeing it and thinking of it and writing it down to share
with us.
http://sandradodd.com/seeingit
This might help you with the idea that unless you know what learning
looks like, you won't be able to see it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
desktop; sorry.)
-=-Its begun to worry me, that Temima doesn't want to do the things
she used to love doing.-=-
She's older, she's growing, she will continue to grow and change.
-=- I take down the diapers to wash - she doesn't want to come put the
coins in. I put the baby for a nap-=-
She's done it before. It was exciting. It was fun because it was new.
-=- I get excited, she pauses the show and comes to watch. Then we all
decide to go outside... and we end up watching the road crew for and
hour or so. We check on our plants too. When we come back in, guess
what? She wants to watch TV some more (this is Kai Lan, all day long,
a few episodes in rotation).-=-
I think the only right answer for you is going to be that she doesn't
want to "watch TV." But you don't have a TV, so I don't think you
should refer to a limited number of short videos as "TV."
Maybe if you could be on the computer near her while she's watching TV
you would both be happier.
-=-When I read all that (its long, sorry), I see a really full and
exciting day. And yet, when there are hours of just sitting in front
of the TV, it doesn't feel that way-=-
No matter how much cool stuff happened, you're focussed on the time
she watched TV. IS she "just sitting in front of the TV"?
You don't have a TV.
IF she's just sitting, it's partly because that's the only good way to
watch a very small screen. If she can't see it from six or eight feet
away, she can't do other things at the same time. And if she's "just
sitting" (not watching? not listening? not thinking/singing/thinking/
learning?) , there are alternatives. I don't think she's "just
sitting in front of the TV" but that's what you're calling it. That's
how you're seeing it and thinking of it and writing it down to share
with us.
http://sandradodd.com/seeingit
This might help you with the idea that unless you know what learning
looks like, you won't be able to see it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 5/10/2010 7:52 PM, shirarocklin wrote:
rather she'd hear all kinds of voices?
shows. We go back and take another look at something all the time. We
stop and google things in the middle of shows. Tonight we watched one of
the last episodes of The West Wing and we stopped it to google how old
Ronald Reagan was when he first took office and to see what school the
Obama kids attend. My kids used to have legos or their big dollhouse or
lots of various art supplies always out in the room with the tv. They'd
be building or play-acting with the dollhouse figures or drawing and
painting or writing or folding origami or all kinds of things - often
related to what they were also watching on tv. I'd sit down and build
or paint, too.
own, though.
But - anway - are you seeing it as books versus tv? Because, you don't
have to choose, there is plenty of time in the day for both.
Do you want to bring more of the world to your child, in more ways, or
limit her world and the ways she has to explore it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Its similar. But when we're reading books over and over, we areBut - why is hearing only your voice a good thing? Why wouldn't you
> reading the books. The voice is mine,
rather she'd hear all kinds of voices?
> the turning the pages is both of us, the 'can you find the truck?' andTelevision can be very interactive, too. Use a DVR so that you can pause
> 'how many balloons can we see?' part is there.
shows. We go back and take another look at something all the time. We
stop and google things in the middle of shows. Tonight we watched one of
the last episodes of The West Wing and we stopped it to google how old
Ronald Reagan was when he first took office and to see what school the
Obama kids attend. My kids used to have legos or their big dollhouse or
lots of various art supplies always out in the room with the tv. They'd
be building or play-acting with the dollhouse figures or drawing and
painting or writing or folding origami or all kinds of things - often
related to what they were also watching on tv. I'd sit down and build
or paint, too.
> Television can be about our relationship, but it does involve aBooks involve way less direct interaction once your kid reads on her
> certain level of 'not direct interaction'. So, I don't quite feel
> comfortable equating them.
own, though.
But - anway - are you seeing it as books versus tv? Because, you don't
have to choose, there is plenty of time in the day for both.
Do you want to bring more of the world to your child, in more ways, or
limit her world and the ways she has to explore it.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 5/10/2010 8:19 PM, shirarocklin wrote:
do. Sitting on the washing machines while you put the quarters in is
maybe not as fun for a four-year-old as it was for a two or
three-year-old. Maybe you should get out more?
-pam
> These days, she doesn't want me to come near her when she's watching aMaybe she's growing up and needs new and different stimulating things to
> show. She spends hours, several times a day. If she isn't watching
> shows, and I go check my email quickly, or go to cook or clean
> something small, she'll ask to watch a show. She won't come away from
> her shows to do the things she really loved before... even at the
> intervals between shows. She gets really irritated at the baby because
> he comes and tries to get her to play, pulls on her chair.
do. Sitting on the washing machines while you put the quarters in is
maybe not as fun for a four-year-old as it was for a two or
three-year-old. Maybe you should get out more?
-pam
Shira Rocklin
Maybe she's growing up and needs new and different stimulating things to
do. Sitting on the washing machines while you put the quarters in is
maybe not as fun for a four-year-old as it was for a two or
three-year-old. Maybe you should get out more?
----------------------------------
Not enough morning time to respond to all, but this bit seemed to come
up a few times.
We get out so much. I'm always looking for new and interesting things.
I know her interests are changing.
Ok, I can see it more clearly, somewhat. I'm feeling the issue as big,
as about everything else versus shows on the computer. I have to deal
with that somehow. But making it laundry versus computer, specific
things versus computer, I can see in those individual examples how her
interests may have changed.
do. Sitting on the washing machines while you put the quarters in is
maybe not as fun for a four-year-old as it was for a two or
three-year-old. Maybe you should get out more?
----------------------------------
Not enough morning time to respond to all, but this bit seemed to come
up a few times.
We get out so much. I'm always looking for new and interesting things.
I know her interests are changing.
Ok, I can see it more clearly, somewhat. I'm feeling the issue as big,
as about everything else versus shows on the computer. I have to deal
with that somehow. But making it laundry versus computer, specific
things versus computer, I can see in those individual examples how her
interests may have changed.
Shira Rocklin
> Its similar. But when we're reading books over and over, we areBut - why is hearing only your voice a good thing? Why wouldn't you
> reading the books. The voice is mine,
rather she'd hear all kinds of voices?
-------------------------------------------
I do want her to hear all kinds of voices. It wasn't about the voice.
It was about what feels to me like interaction between us.
Relationship. I guess its harder to find that feeling in front of our
computer screen like that.
> the turning the pages is both of us, the 'can you find the truck?' andTelevision can be very interactive, too. Use a DVR .... My kids used to
> 'how many balloons can we see?' part is there.
have legos or their big dollhouse or
lots of various art supplies always out in the room with the tv. They'd
be building or play-acting with the dollhouse figures or drawing and
painting or writing or folding origami or all kinds of things - often
related to what they were also watching on tv. I'd sit down and build
or paint, too.
---------------------------------------------
Ok. I see it now. That is a problem. How can we fairly evaluate what
television is like in our home if she can't play while watching? Good
point.
> Television can be about our relationship, but it does involve a. So, I don't quite feel
> certain level of 'not direct interaction'
> comfortable equating them.Books involve way less direct interaction once your kid reads on her
own, though.
But - anway - are you seeing it as books versus tv? Because, you don't
have to choose, there is plenty of time in the day for both.
------------------------------------
Nope, I'm not seeing it that way. It was just an example.
Do you want to bring more of the world to your child, in more ways, or
limit her world and the ways she has to explore it.
---------------------------------------
more, more, more :)
Shira
Sandra Dodd
-=-Ok, I can see it more clearly, somewhat. I'm feeling the issue as
big,
as about everything else versus shows on the computer. I have to deal
with that somehow. But making it laundry versus computer, specific
things versus computer, I can see in those individual examples how her
interests may have changed. -=-
She wants to experience, to learn, to have input.
She doesn't want to choose the input that will impress your friends or
soothe your emotional needs.
I think you're making it not everything vs. TV, but your secret vision
of the world vs. her desire for input. Maybe, maybe not, but it's
worth considering.
-=-I do want her to hear all kinds of voices. It wasn't about the voice.
It was about what feels to me like interaction between us.
Relationship. I guess its harder to find that feeling in front of our
computer screen like that. -=-
The relationship between two people over a book they've read already
isn't better than the relationship between two people over a song
they've heard before, or a painting they've seen before, or a cartoon
they've seen before, or a movie or a video or a TV show. Ditto things
they haven't seen or heard before.
Bedtime stories have to do with sweeting up the idea of enforced
bedtimes, of getting a kid to sleep. There are tender social memories
there, and also kids trying to stay awake because if they interact
with their parents at that point they can be awake longer and be with
the parents longer. That's a need that unschooling loses, at some
point, if the child can be with the parents any time of the day or
night.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
big,
as about everything else versus shows on the computer. I have to deal
with that somehow. But making it laundry versus computer, specific
things versus computer, I can see in those individual examples how her
interests may have changed. -=-
She wants to experience, to learn, to have input.
She doesn't want to choose the input that will impress your friends or
soothe your emotional needs.
I think you're making it not everything vs. TV, but your secret vision
of the world vs. her desire for input. Maybe, maybe not, but it's
worth considering.
-=-I do want her to hear all kinds of voices. It wasn't about the voice.
It was about what feels to me like interaction between us.
Relationship. I guess its harder to find that feeling in front of our
computer screen like that. -=-
The relationship between two people over a book they've read already
isn't better than the relationship between two people over a song
they've heard before, or a painting they've seen before, or a cartoon
they've seen before, or a movie or a video or a TV show. Ditto things
they haven't seen or heard before.
Bedtime stories have to do with sweeting up the idea of enforced
bedtimes, of getting a kid to sleep. There are tender social memories
there, and also kids trying to stay awake because if they interact
with their parents at that point they can be awake longer and be with
the parents longer. That's a need that unschooling loses, at some
point, if the child can be with the parents any time of the day or
night.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shira Rocklin
If the TV is more exciting than you are, then she should watch TV,
right? Aren't you trying to help her choose what is stimulating and
interesting to her?
-------------------------------------
If I see TV as something addictive and powerful, then it being more
exciting than me is threatening, and not something she should watch. If
I replace TV with something else she's interested in. If Temima were
bicycling on her new little bike many hours of the day, never wanting to
stop for other activities I suggested, how would I feel? I'm going to
chew this over a bit.
Don't make her responsible for your happiness. Don't resent the fact
that she's growing up.
---------------------------
Maybe its more that until this point, we sort of follow their lead,
watch their development. As we approach school age, I need to be one
step ahead of development in order to have lots of interesting things
ready for her to choose from. By saying I enjoy playing, I meant that I
didn't think she was avoiding play because I was avoiding it, or because
I wasn't truly participating. I think I need a bit of a goal, because
at the moment it feels like there are so many hours in the day to fill,
from waking up to going to bed (late-ish). I know we need to be there
with our kids all of those hours. But how many hours need to be super
duper exciting better than school hours?
Please don't call YouTube "TV," either. Sharing a computer brings its
own problems. And not being clear about what you're doing and seeing
is plain old lack of clarity.
------------------------------------
I can't imagine a four year old with their own computer. But I'm in the
age category where there was one computer per family. Things are
changing, I take it. I didn't call YouTube TV, its just little clips.
Well, there is one full hour episode of Sesame Street that isn't clips,
and she liked that for a little while. NickJr.com actually has full
episodes, however.
-=- I take down the diapers to wash - she doesn't want to come put the
coins in. I put the baby for a nap-=-
She's done it before. It was exciting. It was fun because it was new.
-----------------------------------------
It wasn't new. She loved doing that for a long time. Its just a fluke
that her interest waned now? That could be. Maybe I should offer for
her to measure and pour the laundry soap!
I think the only right answer for you is going to be that she doesn't
want to "watch TV." But you don't have a TV, so I don't think you
should refer to a limited number of short videos as "TV."
Maybe if you could be on the computer near her while she's watching TV
you would both be happier.
-----------------------------------
So, do you mean that if there was a full size screen, and a remote
control, and... cable/antenna/DVR/TIVO (I don't know what some of these
even are, or how expensive they are, but cable would be outside our
budget at this point) then her interaction with it would be completely
different, the dynamic would be completely different, and there would be
more room for everything else to also happen?
I think our choices, in terms of money, or a TV with Antenna, or some
sort of low cost internet TV hookup. But if we are downloading with a
Roku or some such, its not going to be the same as flipping through
channels. And antenna doesn't provide a ton of choice. Are children
just ok with whatever we can give, if we are trying to give our most?
IS she "just sitting in front of the TV"?
-----------------------------------------------------
Ok. Alright. She has no choice except to be just sitting. The screen
is tiny. Its a little show inside of a small laptop screen. She can't
do anything else while watching. She wants to watch, so there should be
choices within that situation. How far or close to sit, or whether to
sit or jump up and down. I also would like a big screen, I thought we
could watch some yoga videos sometime and I could get some exercise.
Can't do that on a small screen either.
right? Aren't you trying to help her choose what is stimulating and
interesting to her?
-------------------------------------
If I see TV as something addictive and powerful, then it being more
exciting than me is threatening, and not something she should watch. If
I replace TV with something else she's interested in. If Temima were
bicycling on her new little bike many hours of the day, never wanting to
stop for other activities I suggested, how would I feel? I'm going to
chew this over a bit.
Don't make her responsible for your happiness. Don't resent the fact
that she's growing up.
---------------------------
Maybe its more that until this point, we sort of follow their lead,
watch their development. As we approach school age, I need to be one
step ahead of development in order to have lots of interesting things
ready for her to choose from. By saying I enjoy playing, I meant that I
didn't think she was avoiding play because I was avoiding it, or because
I wasn't truly participating. I think I need a bit of a goal, because
at the moment it feels like there are so many hours in the day to fill,
from waking up to going to bed (late-ish). I know we need to be there
with our kids all of those hours. But how many hours need to be super
duper exciting better than school hours?
Please don't call YouTube "TV," either. Sharing a computer brings its
own problems. And not being clear about what you're doing and seeing
is plain old lack of clarity.
------------------------------------
I can't imagine a four year old with their own computer. But I'm in the
age category where there was one computer per family. Things are
changing, I take it. I didn't call YouTube TV, its just little clips.
Well, there is one full hour episode of Sesame Street that isn't clips,
and she liked that for a little while. NickJr.com actually has full
episodes, however.
-=- I take down the diapers to wash - she doesn't want to come put the
coins in. I put the baby for a nap-=-
She's done it before. It was exciting. It was fun because it was new.
-----------------------------------------
It wasn't new. She loved doing that for a long time. Its just a fluke
that her interest waned now? That could be. Maybe I should offer for
her to measure and pour the laundry soap!
I think the only right answer for you is going to be that she doesn't
want to "watch TV." But you don't have a TV, so I don't think you
should refer to a limited number of short videos as "TV."
Maybe if you could be on the computer near her while she's watching TV
you would both be happier.
-----------------------------------
So, do you mean that if there was a full size screen, and a remote
control, and... cable/antenna/DVR/TIVO (I don't know what some of these
even are, or how expensive they are, but cable would be outside our
budget at this point) then her interaction with it would be completely
different, the dynamic would be completely different, and there would be
more room for everything else to also happen?
I think our choices, in terms of money, or a TV with Antenna, or some
sort of low cost internet TV hookup. But if we are downloading with a
Roku or some such, its not going to be the same as flipping through
channels. And antenna doesn't provide a ton of choice. Are children
just ok with whatever we can give, if we are trying to give our most?
IS she "just sitting in front of the TV"?
-----------------------------------------------------
Ok. Alright. She has no choice except to be just sitting. The screen
is tiny. Its a little show inside of a small laptop screen. She can't
do anything else while watching. She wants to watch, so there should be
choices within that situation. How far or close to sit, or whether to
sit or jump up and down. I also would like a big screen, I thought we
could watch some yoga videos sometime and I could get some exercise.
Can't do that on a small screen either.
Shira Rocklin
Wow, is she sleeping long this morning. More time to read and write.
Thats good.
I think you're making it not everything vs. TV, but your secret vision
of the world vs. her desire for input. Maybe, maybe not, but it's
worth considering.
-------------------------------------
I'll think about that.
The relationship between two people over a book they've read already
isn't better than the relationship between two people over a song
they've heard before
--------------------------------------
Your right. How many interesting conversations did I have in high
school about Friends (the show)? Lots. Its a bit sad that we didn't
have more fodder for interesting conversations... that TV provided most
of the interesting things in our lives as teenagers. There wasn't much
time or choice outside of school. But those conversations about Friends
(and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and ...) weren't less interesting or
productive than conversation about other topics could have been (just
more varied).
Bedtime stories have to do with sweeting up the idea of enforced
bedtimes, of getting a kid to sleep. There are tender social memories
there, and also kids trying to stay awake because if they interact
with their parents at that point they can be awake longer and be with
the parents longer. That's a need that unschooling loses, at some
point, if the child can be with the parents any time of the day or
night.
----------------------------------------
We don't have a bedtime for her, but when she is ready to go to bed we
do read to help her go to sleep. She likes that. There are certain
real limits to how the evenings go, though. Husband takes medications
that have a sleepy side effect, and he has to take them early enough to
be able to wake up the next morning for work. And I have to be
available to nurse the baby back to sleep many times an evening. She
won't fall asleep with me in any case, only with daddy reading to her.
So, there comes a point in lateness of the evening (10, 11, 12) when we
have to push more toward bed, and explain that if she doesn't try to go
to sleep then daddy won't be awake enough to read to her, and I'll have
to stop playing to go nurse baby at some point. Its hard for her. I
imagine it will be easier when she's older, and can fall asleep without
the reading, or stay up by herself.
Thats good.
I think you're making it not everything vs. TV, but your secret vision
of the world vs. her desire for input. Maybe, maybe not, but it's
worth considering.
-------------------------------------
I'll think about that.
The relationship between two people over a book they've read already
isn't better than the relationship between two people over a song
they've heard before
--------------------------------------
Your right. How many interesting conversations did I have in high
school about Friends (the show)? Lots. Its a bit sad that we didn't
have more fodder for interesting conversations... that TV provided most
of the interesting things in our lives as teenagers. There wasn't much
time or choice outside of school. But those conversations about Friends
(and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and ...) weren't less interesting or
productive than conversation about other topics could have been (just
more varied).
Bedtime stories have to do with sweeting up the idea of enforced
bedtimes, of getting a kid to sleep. There are tender social memories
there, and also kids trying to stay awake because if they interact
with their parents at that point they can be awake longer and be with
the parents longer. That's a need that unschooling loses, at some
point, if the child can be with the parents any time of the day or
night.
----------------------------------------
We don't have a bedtime for her, but when she is ready to go to bed we
do read to help her go to sleep. She likes that. There are certain
real limits to how the evenings go, though. Husband takes medications
that have a sleepy side effect, and he has to take them early enough to
be able to wake up the next morning for work. And I have to be
available to nurse the baby back to sleep many times an evening. She
won't fall asleep with me in any case, only with daddy reading to her.
So, there comes a point in lateness of the evening (10, 11, 12) when we
have to push more toward bed, and explain that if she doesn't try to go
to sleep then daddy won't be awake enough to read to her, and I'll have
to stop playing to go nurse baby at some point. Its hard for her. I
imagine it will be easier when she's older, and can fall asleep without
the reading, or stay up by herself.
Sandra Dodd
-=-If I see TV as something addictive and powerful, then it being more
exciting than me is threatening, and not something she should watch.-=-
Schools have covered windows with paint or paper to keep kids from
seeing outside so that the teacher is more interesting than other
people, cars or trees. I always think of that when a parent wants to
make homelife more exciting (they think, or they claim) by eliminating
television. I picture them painting over the screen or putting paper
over it.
-=- As we approach school age, I need to be one
step ahead of development in order to have lots of interesting things
ready for her to choose from. -=-
How can you be a step ahead if you don't know which way she wants to
go? Only on a narrow path can someone be "a step ahead." If you mean
alert to possibilities and opportunities, shouldn't that have been the
situation since she was born?
The whole world is filled with interesting things for her to chose
from. You can help her get places and you can provide access and
partnership, companionship, and be a guide and a lovely assistant.
-=-Please don't call YouTube "TV," either. Sharing a computer brings its
own problems. And not being clear about what you're doing and seeing
is plain old lack of clarity.
------------------------------------
-=-I can't imagine a four year old with their own computer. But I'm in
the
age category where there was one computer per family. -=-
I really thought the name of the topic had something to do with what
we were discussing: "Bringing TV in"
I'm not suggesting getting her a computer. I'm suggesting you stop
substituting a few videos available on a small computer for having a
real TV with more options, more space, and your computer available to
you. You could use the computer WHILE she watches Sesame Street, and
there are thousands of full hour episodes of Sesame Street in the
world. She liked one episode for a little while. But you only had
the one episode!
-=-She's done it before. It was exciting. It was fun because it was new.
-----------------------------------------
-=-It wasn't new. She loved doing that for a long time. Its just a fluke
that her interest waned now? That could be. Maybe I should offer for
her to measure and pour the laundry soap!-=-
It was never new to her?
It's not a fluke that her interest waned. If putting quarters in a
washing machine is the most exciting thing in her life, unschooling
isn't going to be good for your family.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
exciting than me is threatening, and not something she should watch.-=-
Schools have covered windows with paint or paper to keep kids from
seeing outside so that the teacher is more interesting than other
people, cars or trees. I always think of that when a parent wants to
make homelife more exciting (they think, or they claim) by eliminating
television. I picture them painting over the screen or putting paper
over it.
-=- As we approach school age, I need to be one
step ahead of development in order to have lots of interesting things
ready for her to choose from. -=-
How can you be a step ahead if you don't know which way she wants to
go? Only on a narrow path can someone be "a step ahead." If you mean
alert to possibilities and opportunities, shouldn't that have been the
situation since she was born?
The whole world is filled with interesting things for her to chose
from. You can help her get places and you can provide access and
partnership, companionship, and be a guide and a lovely assistant.
-=-Please don't call YouTube "TV," either. Sharing a computer brings its
own problems. And not being clear about what you're doing and seeing
is plain old lack of clarity.
------------------------------------
-=-I can't imagine a four year old with their own computer. But I'm in
the
age category where there was one computer per family. -=-
I really thought the name of the topic had something to do with what
we were discussing: "Bringing TV in"
I'm not suggesting getting her a computer. I'm suggesting you stop
substituting a few videos available on a small computer for having a
real TV with more options, more space, and your computer available to
you. You could use the computer WHILE she watches Sesame Street, and
there are thousands of full hour episodes of Sesame Street in the
world. She liked one episode for a little while. But you only had
the one episode!
-=-She's done it before. It was exciting. It was fun because it was new.
-----------------------------------------
-=-It wasn't new. She loved doing that for a long time. Its just a fluke
that her interest waned now? That could be. Maybe I should offer for
her to measure and pour the laundry soap!-=-
It was never new to her?
It's not a fluke that her interest waned. If putting quarters in a
washing machine is the most exciting thing in her life, unschooling
isn't going to be good for your family.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
> We get out so much. I'm always looking for new and interesting things.First - you don't have to defend yourself. Take suggestions that seem
> I know her interests are changing.
useful and just leave the rest.
Second - if you're going out and doing all kinds of new and interesting
things and you're bringing new and interesting things into your home,
then what is the problem? What is your theory about why your child is
acting as you say she is?
-pam
Pam Sorooshian
> How many interesting conversations did I have in highSad that you had conversations about a tv show? Sad? It would have been
> school about Friends (the show)? Lots. Its a bit sad that we didn't
> have more fodder for interesting conversations... that TV provided most
> of the interesting things in our lives as teenagers.
superior to have had conversations about books?
You've swallowed a lot of anti-TV propaganda.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Su Penn
On May 11, 2010, at 2:41 AM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
My Yehva, who is 2, likes to do everything herself. She doesn't want to listen to me read a book; she wants to hold the book, and be the one to "read" it, which usually means pointing out things in the picture, or pretending to read some of the letters. This is a really fun thing to do with a book, sure, but it means that right now, TV shows are how Yehva is having the experience of having a story told to her, with a coherent narrative. If I said "No TV," she'd either be not having that experience right now, or I'd be pushing her to let me read the books the way they are "supposed" to be read.
My experience is that the various media complement each other. It's not TV versus audiobooks versus readaloud. It's "TV for this, audiobooks for that, readaloud for this other thing." Pam is right, the day is long and there's room for a lot of stuff in it. I used to have a friend who was appalled at how much TV Eric watched (she didn't say "appalled" to me, she said, "Don't you worry about how much TV Eric watches?") and I would point out to her that on a day when Eric watched TV for, let's say four hours, he might also have been outside running around for two hours, and at the park with me for an hour, and reading books with me for an hour, and working on Legos for two hours. Kids who are unschooled don't have the time limits that schooled kids do, that pit TV vs. free play vs. Legos so directly against each other.
To be honest, too, Yehva is a very active kid who doesn't need much sleep. I've been mysteriously unwell for about two years now (improving, finally, but not remotely 100% yet...maybe 70%, with better and worse days). Watching TV shows is a way for her to be occupied with something enjoyable while I take a break, or a way for her to have some quiet time that she otherwise won't take. We are exactly that family you hear reviled in stories about how terrible TV is, who "use" TV as a "babysitter." During the 18 months when I couldn't get through a whole day awake, Yehva often spent time in her crib in the afternoon while I napped, watching TV--by 18 months she had her own TV and an iPod loaded with videos we could hook up to it. I would feel really bad about this except that she enjoys TV and I think that's fine. I have been glad to have thought this through before Yehva came along, so that on top of everything else I was dealing with I wasn't thinking I was a bad mother because my toddler was watching the Backyardigans and Blue's Clues for 90 minutes or two hours while I slept.
Su, mom to Eric, 8; Carl, 6; Yehva, 2.5
tapeflags.blogspot.com
> On 5/10/2010 7:52 PM, shirarocklin wrote:Eric and I have recently decided not to read The Amber Spyglass aloud together. We listened to the first two books in the series as audiobooks on trips (the His Dark Materials series by Phillip Pullman) and the audio books were so very good, with different excellent actors doing the voices, that we have decided we want to listen to the audiobook of Amber Spyglass as well. There are other books where accents figure prominently that I either wish we'd listened to the audiobooks (The Dark is Rising books, when they go to Wales and expect me to read a Welsh sentence!) or am glad we did (the Artemis Fowl books). I'm good at reading aloud but sometimes an audiobook is more satisfying in some ways. So we do both.
>> Its similar. But when we're reading books over and over, we are
>> reading the books. The voice is mine,
>
> But - why is hearing only your voice a good thing? Why wouldn't you
> rather she'd hear all kinds of voices?
My Yehva, who is 2, likes to do everything herself. She doesn't want to listen to me read a book; she wants to hold the book, and be the one to "read" it, which usually means pointing out things in the picture, or pretending to read some of the letters. This is a really fun thing to do with a book, sure, but it means that right now, TV shows are how Yehva is having the experience of having a story told to her, with a coherent narrative. If I said "No TV," she'd either be not having that experience right now, or I'd be pushing her to let me read the books the way they are "supposed" to be read.
My experience is that the various media complement each other. It's not TV versus audiobooks versus readaloud. It's "TV for this, audiobooks for that, readaloud for this other thing." Pam is right, the day is long and there's room for a lot of stuff in it. I used to have a friend who was appalled at how much TV Eric watched (she didn't say "appalled" to me, she said, "Don't you worry about how much TV Eric watches?") and I would point out to her that on a day when Eric watched TV for, let's say four hours, he might also have been outside running around for two hours, and at the park with me for an hour, and reading books with me for an hour, and working on Legos for two hours. Kids who are unschooled don't have the time limits that schooled kids do, that pit TV vs. free play vs. Legos so directly against each other.
To be honest, too, Yehva is a very active kid who doesn't need much sleep. I've been mysteriously unwell for about two years now (improving, finally, but not remotely 100% yet...maybe 70%, with better and worse days). Watching TV shows is a way for her to be occupied with something enjoyable while I take a break, or a way for her to have some quiet time that she otherwise won't take. We are exactly that family you hear reviled in stories about how terrible TV is, who "use" TV as a "babysitter." During the 18 months when I couldn't get through a whole day awake, Yehva often spent time in her crib in the afternoon while I napped, watching TV--by 18 months she had her own TV and an iPod loaded with videos we could hook up to it. I would feel really bad about this except that she enjoys TV and I think that's fine. I have been glad to have thought this through before Yehva came along, so that on top of everything else I was dealing with I wasn't thinking I was a bad mother because my toddler was watching the Backyardigans and Blue's Clues for 90 minutes or two hours while I slept.
Su, mom to Eric, 8; Carl, 6; Yehva, 2.5
tapeflags.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-It would have been
superior to have had conversations about books?
You've swallowed a lot of anti-TV propaganda.-=-
I like books and own quite a few. I was a very bookish kid.
Still, I'm surprised by the amount of book worship I've seen in the
world.
http://sandradodd.com/bookworship
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
superior to have had conversations about books?
You've swallowed a lot of anti-TV propaganda.-=-
I like books and own quite a few. I was a very bookish kid.
Still, I'm surprised by the amount of book worship I've seen in the
world.
http://sandradodd.com/bookworship
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***Its begun to worry me, that Temima doesn't want to do the things she used to love doing. She loved sitting on the laundry machines and putting the coins in the slots, and carrying the coins downstairs. She loved baking with me. She loved playing with her toys. Reading books. She regularly requested lots of these things, and whatever else she thought up. She liked eating lunch together, me preparing it while she thought of what she wanted to include. Our days felt fuller. ***
Kids grow and change. It would be strange if a child continued liking the same thing or things without ever veering towards something else. That is what unschoolers look out for, the new opportunities to explore "strange new worlds" (sorry, couldn't help myself there!) If a kid is doing the same thing for years and years, never looking left or right, I'd feel like we were missing something. I'm sure there are kids who do this, I've met autistic children like that, but they are more the exception than the rule.
Perhaps it would help you to see TV as the "something new", that she's immersed herself in! Instead of seeing what she isn't doing anymore, see what she IS doing now and add to it. Add to it the same way you'd add to a child who's developed a sudden interest in taking pictures or collecting rocks.
For me, this is very much the crux of seeing natural learning. Seeing what my children are into and finding the same kind of joy of it that they are and finding fun ways to add to it. This is the coolest way to help kids make new connections of their world, by engaging with what they are already into and expanding and expanding and changing and growing.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kids grow and change. It would be strange if a child continued liking the same thing or things without ever veering towards something else. That is what unschoolers look out for, the new opportunities to explore "strange new worlds" (sorry, couldn't help myself there!) If a kid is doing the same thing for years and years, never looking left or right, I'd feel like we were missing something. I'm sure there are kids who do this, I've met autistic children like that, but they are more the exception than the rule.
Perhaps it would help you to see TV as the "something new", that she's immersed herself in! Instead of seeing what she isn't doing anymore, see what she IS doing now and add to it. Add to it the same way you'd add to a child who's developed a sudden interest in taking pictures or collecting rocks.
For me, this is very much the crux of seeing natural learning. Seeing what my children are into and finding the same kind of joy of it that they are and finding fun ways to add to it. This is the coolest way to help kids make new connections of their world, by engaging with what they are already into and expanding and expanding and changing and growing.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
If TV was so addictive the parents here on this list would have kids that did nothing but watch TV.
I have a 4 year old dd that has had free access to TV ALL her life.
I have satelite, DVR and 3 TV in the house.
She has her own 13" Tv that is pink with flowers that my sister gave it to her.
She loves to get movies to watch from the library.
I have 7 cartoon channels.
The TV is on right now with Dora the Explorer and Gigi has been playing with Little People, going
upstairs to wake up her older brother to show him what he got in the mail.
She has been doing many different things. She is not watching TV at all.
She actually rarely sits down to watch any TV and if she does she is playing with something else while the TV is on.
She also loves books and does not prefer books to TV or vice versa. They are both great to her.
She much rather be outside playing or doing chores in our farm with daddy than watching TV.
My son liked TV at that age a little more.
He loved watching TV when he was 3 and 4.
We sat and watched or played and watched and it was awesome.
I personally love TV and usually watch while I am in the computer or cleaning the room but
I don't watch very much as there are many other things to do during our busy lifes.
One more thing. DVRs are the best thing in the world. I can record the shows and me and the kids
do not feel like we are going to miss anything if we have somewhere to go when our favorite shows are on!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have a 4 year old dd that has had free access to TV ALL her life.
I have satelite, DVR and 3 TV in the house.
She has her own 13" Tv that is pink with flowers that my sister gave it to her.
She loves to get movies to watch from the library.
I have 7 cartoon channels.
The TV is on right now with Dora the Explorer and Gigi has been playing with Little People, going
upstairs to wake up her older brother to show him what he got in the mail.
She has been doing many different things. She is not watching TV at all.
She actually rarely sits down to watch any TV and if she does she is playing with something else while the TV is on.
She also loves books and does not prefer books to TV or vice versa. They are both great to her.
She much rather be outside playing or doing chores in our farm with daddy than watching TV.
My son liked TV at that age a little more.
He loved watching TV when he was 3 and 4.
We sat and watched or played and watched and it was awesome.
I personally love TV and usually watch while I am in the computer or cleaning the room but
I don't watch very much as there are many other things to do during our busy lifes.
One more thing. DVRs are the best thing in the world. I can record the shows and me and the kids
do not feel like we are going to miss anything if we have somewhere to go when our favorite shows are on!
Alex Polikowsky
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Jenny Cyphers
***So, do you mean that if there was a full size screen, and a remote
control, and... cable/antenna/ DVR/TIVO (I don't know what some of these
even are, or how expensive they are, but cable would be outside our
budget at this point) then her interaction with it would be completely
different, the dynamic would be completely different, and there would be
more room for everything else to also happen? ***
There would definitely be more room for large motor things to happen, or sprawling on the floor, or building with blocks.
***I think our choices, in terms of money, or a TV with Antenna, or some
sort of low cost internet TV hookup. But if we are downloading with a
Roku or some such, its not going to be the same as flipping through
channels. And antenna doesn't provide a ton of choice. Are children
just ok with whatever we can give, if we are trying to give our most?***
Children will use what is available. At our house, we mostly watch netflix. We can hook our laptop up to the TV so that it displays on a larger screen. We have a computer on a rolling cart that has a large flat screen monitor. That works great for bringing into various rooms in the house and watching or listening to things. The only time we watch things on a small screen laptop is when we are snuggled into bed and don't need to move around and do things. We have 3 TV's in our house that rarely get used for watching straight up TV. Sometimes we watch something on the rolling cart and play a video games using the TV. We use a DVD player and watch movies way more often than we watch TV too.
When Margaux was younger she watched more TV, but we had cable and better kid's shows. When Chamille was little, she watched afternoon cartoons, but networks don't seem to do that anymore!
I think the more creative parents are at finding ways to enhance a child's experience, the more creative a child learns to be to enhance their own experiences. That works for all things, including TV.
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control, and... cable/antenna/ DVR/TIVO (I don't know what some of these
even are, or how expensive they are, but cable would be outside our
budget at this point) then her interaction with it would be completely
different, the dynamic would be completely different, and there would be
more room for everything else to also happen? ***
There would definitely be more room for large motor things to happen, or sprawling on the floor, or building with blocks.
***I think our choices, in terms of money, or a TV with Antenna, or some
sort of low cost internet TV hookup. But if we are downloading with a
Roku or some such, its not going to be the same as flipping through
channels. And antenna doesn't provide a ton of choice. Are children
just ok with whatever we can give, if we are trying to give our most?***
Children will use what is available. At our house, we mostly watch netflix. We can hook our laptop up to the TV so that it displays on a larger screen. We have a computer on a rolling cart that has a large flat screen monitor. That works great for bringing into various rooms in the house and watching or listening to things. The only time we watch things on a small screen laptop is when we are snuggled into bed and don't need to move around and do things. We have 3 TV's in our house that rarely get used for watching straight up TV. Sometimes we watch something on the rolling cart and play a video games using the TV. We use a DVD player and watch movies way more often than we watch TV too.
When Margaux was younger she watched more TV, but we had cable and better kid's shows. When Chamille was little, she watched afternoon cartoons, but networks don't seem to do that anymore!
I think the more creative parents are at finding ways to enhance a child's experience, the more creative a child learns to be to enhance their own experiences. That works for all things, including TV.
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Vidyut Kale
<-- Su -->
"TV shows are how Yehva is having the experience of having a story told to
her, with a coherent narrative. If I said "No TV," she'd either be not
having that experience right now, or I'd be pushing her to let me read the
books the way they are "supposed" to be read."
At the risk of seeming contrary to 'my side' (pro-TV) of the discussion, I
just want to bring up that I think its not so much of an either/or and more
like what Jenny said
<-- Jenny -->
"Children will use what is available."
I have experienced narrative in things as mundane as "you know what I did
today?" to sitting on grandpa's knee and hearing some story from his youth.
Telling parents what the best friend did is a narrative. Complaining about
someone/something is a narrative sometimes. TV is an easily accessible
resource, but its a resource, not one of two sources of narrative. Not even
the most immediate, though I guess it is one of the most vivid and passive,
so easiest.
<-- Su -->
"My experience is that the various media complement each other. It's not TV
versus audiobooks versus readaloud."
So maybe I over-reacted :D
I see resources like a Jackie Chan fight. Spar with what's in your hand. No
point hoping that the umbrella was a Samurai sword.
Vidyut
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"TV shows are how Yehva is having the experience of having a story told to
her, with a coherent narrative. If I said "No TV," she'd either be not
having that experience right now, or I'd be pushing her to let me read the
books the way they are "supposed" to be read."
At the risk of seeming contrary to 'my side' (pro-TV) of the discussion, I
just want to bring up that I think its not so much of an either/or and more
like what Jenny said
<-- Jenny -->
"Children will use what is available."
I have experienced narrative in things as mundane as "you know what I did
today?" to sitting on grandpa's knee and hearing some story from his youth.
Telling parents what the best friend did is a narrative. Complaining about
someone/something is a narrative sometimes. TV is an easily accessible
resource, but its a resource, not one of two sources of narrative. Not even
the most immediate, though I guess it is one of the most vivid and passive,
so easiest.
<-- Su -->
"My experience is that the various media complement each other. It's not TV
versus audiobooks versus readaloud."
So maybe I over-reacted :D
I see resources like a Jackie Chan fight. Spar with what's in your hand. No
point hoping that the umbrella was a Samurai sword.
Vidyut
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Su Penn
On May 11, 2010, at 3:11 PM, Vidyut Kale wrote:
Su
> I have experienced narrative in things as mundane as "you know what I didYou're right, of course, though I was thinking of TV as a source of a certain kind of structured fictional story rather than using your broader definition of narrative--it's of course a narrative if I'm telling my partner what the kids and I did at the park, for instance. I could have been more specific.
> today?" to sitting on grandpa's knee and hearing some story from his youth.
> Telling parents what the best friend did is a narrative. Complaining about
> someone/something is a narrative sometimes.
Su
Sandra Dodd
-=-I see resources like a Jackie Chan fight. Spar with what's in your
hand. No
point hoping that the umbrella was a Samurai sword-=-
You would never see resources like a Jackie Chan fight if you had only
read about Jackie Chan in a book!
Sandra
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hand. No
point hoping that the umbrella was a Samurai sword-=-
You would never see resources like a Jackie Chan fight if you had only
read about Jackie Chan in a book!
Sandra
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