Moving past deschooling to unschooling
Katherinev
This is Heidi's (11) fourth month out of school. Initially, I struggled with the issue of homeschooling vs unschooling with her, because I think she was taking me into unschooling from her own very felt need to deschool. I was experiencing deschooling as if it were unschooling I think and this raised a lot of doubts for me. I felt initially that I didn't have enough time or means to give Heidi a healthy education, but when I started to just look around at the richness she could explore just in our own home, I wondered what I had been worried about.
Now though, I see that Heidi has lost the sort of fuzzy disconnected look she developed in school, and I feel that I got the daughter back that I recognized from our former homeschooling experiences. As she's come out of that disengaged place from her own agency, she's begun to enact herself in multiple ways.
Heidi had expressed some interest in sewing, and figured out on her own to start with developing hand sewing techniques, and has begun her project basket. We have developed a bit of a quiet lifestyle together but have managed to have really surprisingly serious talks about multiple topics as they arise. I asked my class of college freshmen ow many of them talked to their parents about life issues, ideas, politics. Virtually no one raised their hands. I was shocked, and asked a few more questions, and a few said their parents talked about issues at work at the dinner table. I wondered aloud if the whole scheduling thing of school, homework, buses, etc just precluded normal dialogue amongst family members. I feel the more Heidi and I naturally talk through things, the more "education" she and I are both experiencing together. There is no end goal to such dialogue, unlike in classrooms where the topic is typically oriented to a pre-set conclusion In the more natural orientation that I see us experiencing the openness of possibilities always remain to be explored and revisited. I think I under appreciated the role of dialogue in my previous homeschool days, and I wonder if the conversations we were having when we were done "school" weren't actually where education began.
Heidi has been watching a lot of TV, but lately I've started noticing her exploration of the many varieties of TV genre and less fascination with cartoons and pulp shows.. I started having her watching the same room I'm working just for the conversation. I started rethinking television as a medium for learning. When it's not used as a means of frantic relaxation of to have a sense of something happening in one's life, it can be quite a window on the world.
I am not sure how much she is exploring on the computer beyond "addicting games" but I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention. I wonder how this will change over time for her.
My other struggle was when others, especially my ex asked, "What is she learning, what is your schedule with her, what's her curriculum?" What's wanted is a thumbnail of what's being learned, and there is also something of a threat? I'm not sure what that without such things negligence must be occurring. But my answer now is, "Why don't you ask Heidi what she is learning about these days?" Which changes the emphasis from thumbnail curricular sketches to being in conversation with Heidi. In a short time, adults get into an interesting conversation with her.
Recently I was reading about three cups of tea http://www.threecupsoftea.com/ and how educating females can be beneficial to whole communities in third world countries and I wondered if traditional education as we have come to develop it in this country was a means of making resources available to multiple groups of people that were previously only available to a few; things like libraries, and time for conversation, and discussions about politics around newspaper articles. But in a society such as ours where information is so readily available, and labor is not so all consuming and intense at home -- if in our modern setting, school then limits one's ability to learn because it is less of an enriched environment than most home in part because of the limiting of student's direction over their own education(and also less ecological and healthy to one's emotional well being, agency, and curiousity). Has thoughts on unschooling in terms of historical trends?
Kathy
Now though, I see that Heidi has lost the sort of fuzzy disconnected look she developed in school, and I feel that I got the daughter back that I recognized from our former homeschooling experiences. As she's come out of that disengaged place from her own agency, she's begun to enact herself in multiple ways.
Heidi had expressed some interest in sewing, and figured out on her own to start with developing hand sewing techniques, and has begun her project basket. We have developed a bit of a quiet lifestyle together but have managed to have really surprisingly serious talks about multiple topics as they arise. I asked my class of college freshmen ow many of them talked to their parents about life issues, ideas, politics. Virtually no one raised their hands. I was shocked, and asked a few more questions, and a few said their parents talked about issues at work at the dinner table. I wondered aloud if the whole scheduling thing of school, homework, buses, etc just precluded normal dialogue amongst family members. I feel the more Heidi and I naturally talk through things, the more "education" she and I are both experiencing together. There is no end goal to such dialogue, unlike in classrooms where the topic is typically oriented to a pre-set conclusion In the more natural orientation that I see us experiencing the openness of possibilities always remain to be explored and revisited. I think I under appreciated the role of dialogue in my previous homeschool days, and I wonder if the conversations we were having when we were done "school" weren't actually where education began.
Heidi has been watching a lot of TV, but lately I've started noticing her exploration of the many varieties of TV genre and less fascination with cartoons and pulp shows.. I started having her watching the same room I'm working just for the conversation. I started rethinking television as a medium for learning. When it's not used as a means of frantic relaxation of to have a sense of something happening in one's life, it can be quite a window on the world.
I am not sure how much she is exploring on the computer beyond "addicting games" but I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention. I wonder how this will change over time for her.
My other struggle was when others, especially my ex asked, "What is she learning, what is your schedule with her, what's her curriculum?" What's wanted is a thumbnail of what's being learned, and there is also something of a threat? I'm not sure what that without such things negligence must be occurring. But my answer now is, "Why don't you ask Heidi what she is learning about these days?" Which changes the emphasis from thumbnail curricular sketches to being in conversation with Heidi. In a short time, adults get into an interesting conversation with her.
Recently I was reading about three cups of tea http://www.threecupsoftea.com/ and how educating females can be beneficial to whole communities in third world countries and I wondered if traditional education as we have come to develop it in this country was a means of making resources available to multiple groups of people that were previously only available to a few; things like libraries, and time for conversation, and discussions about politics around newspaper articles. But in a society such as ours where information is so readily available, and labor is not so all consuming and intense at home -- if in our modern setting, school then limits one's ability to learn because it is less of an enriched environment than most home in part because of the limiting of student's direction over their own education(and also less ecological and healthy to one's emotional well being, agency, and curiousity). Has thoughts on unschooling in terms of historical trends?
Kathy
Pam Sorooshian
On 4/9/2010 3:39 AM, Katherinev wrote:
of Homeschooling: Notes on Successful Family Living." The "fundamentals"
aren't reading and writing and arithmetic, they are playing and having
conversations.
-pam
> I think I under appreciated the role of dialogue in my previousThis is something I love about Ann Lahrson Fisher's book, "Fundamentals
> homeschool days, and I wonder if the conversations we were having when
> we were done "school" weren't actually where education began.
of Homeschooling: Notes on Successful Family Living." The "fundamentals"
aren't reading and writing and arithmetic, they are playing and having
conversations.
-pam
Marina DeLuca-Howard
<<<I am not sure how much she is exploring on the computer beyond "addicting
games" but I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention.>>>
I have to say I object to the notion games are addicting--comparing gamers
to alcoholics, smokers and drug users does a disservice to all groups. For
my children games have provided an opportunity to do some complex quick
reading, build logic skills, use math skills and develop social skills.
Watch a group of three or four kids playing and you will see fine examples
of collaboration, knowledge sharing, and complex group dynamics. You will
also see joy. Perhaps when you decide all the richness of modern life can
weave itself into life's tapestry, you can pay more attention:)
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
games" but I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention.>>>
I have to say I object to the notion games are addicting--comparing gamers
to alcoholics, smokers and drug users does a disservice to all groups. For
my children games have provided an opportunity to do some complex quick
reading, build logic skills, use math skills and develop social skills.
Watch a group of three or four kids playing and you will see fine examples
of collaboration, knowledge sharing, and complex group dynamics. You will
also see joy. Perhaps when you decide all the richness of modern life can
weave itself into life's tapestry, you can pay more attention:)
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katherinev
Sorry "addicting games" is the name of the website she is mostly on. And yea, I'm actually just fine with it.
Kathy
Kathy
--- In [email protected], Marina DeLuca-Howard <delucahoward@...> wrote:
>
> <<<I am not sure how much she is exploring on the computer beyond "addicting
> games" but I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention.>>>
>
> I have to say I object to the notion games are addicting--comparing gamers
> to alcoholics, smokers and drug users does a disservice to all groups. For
> my children games have provided an opportunity to do some complex quick
> reading, build logic skills, use math skills and develop social skills.
> Watch a group of three or four kids playing and you will see fine examples
> of collaboration, knowledge sharing, and complex group dynamics. You will
> also see joy. Perhaps when you decide all the richness of modern life can
> weave itself into life's tapestry, you can pay more attention:)
>
> Marina
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Katherinev
I think that computer games, and the computer in general like the TV will become more complex and rich for her as she continues to unschool. Since games are no longer relief from the stress and anxiety of schooling, I think it changes the whole dynamic.
Kathy
Kathy
--- In [email protected], Marina DeLuca-Howard <delucahoward@...> wrote:
>
> <<<I am not sure how much she is exploring on the computer beyond "addicting
> games" but I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention.>>>
>
> I have to say I object to the notion games are addicting--comparing gamers
> to alcoholics, smokers and drug users does a disservice to all groups. For
> my children games have provided an opportunity to do some complex quick
> reading, build logic skills, use math skills and develop social skills.
> Watch a group of three or four kids playing and you will see fine examples
> of collaboration, knowledge sharing, and complex group dynamics. You will
> also see joy. Perhaps when you decide all the richness of modern life can
> weave itself into life's tapestry, you can pay more attention:)
>
> Marina
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jill Parmer
On Apr 9, 2010, at 8:53 AM, Marina DeLuca-Howard wrote:
lots of games, like Game Fudge, and others. Hmmm comparing games and
fudge...one's a feast for the tongue and one's a feast for the
brain. And no, I don't lick my games, but you can lick other players
in some. :-P
~Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> <<<<<<I am not sure how much she is exploring on the computerI think she's talking about Addictinggames.com it's a website with
> beyond "addicting
> games" but I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention.>>>
>
> I have to say I object to the notion games are addicting-->>>>
lots of games, like Game Fudge, and others. Hmmm comparing games and
fudge...one's a feast for the tongue and one's a feast for the
brain. And no, I don't lick my games, but you can lick other players
in some. :-P
~Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
sorry...over-reacted! I just keep defending gaming, food, and the other
choices for so long I can't hold it together when I see addict and computer
game together :(
Marina
choices for so long I can't hold it together when I see addict and computer
game together :(
Marina
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joanna
"I asked my class of college freshmen ow many of them talked to their parents about life issues, ideas, politics. Virtually no one raised their hands. I was shocked, and asked a few more questions, and a few said their parents talked about issues at work at the dinner table. I wondered aloud if the whole scheduling thing of school, homework, buses, etc just precluded normal dialogue amongst family members."
I also think that conversations like that spontaneously generate from time spent together. If you haven't seen each other all day, are trying to get dinner on the table, just got home from work, school, etc. you don't have any "easy" time. You wouldn't get together with a friend and delve instantly into your deepest thoughts!
"...and I wondered if traditional education as we have come to develop it in this country was a means of making resources available to multiple groups of people that were previously only available to a few; things like libraries, and time for conversation, and discussions about politics around newspaper articles."
Your thought sounds nice, but I don't think this is what's really happening at school--time for conversation and discussions about politics around newspaper articles. It might be happening at those "elite" schools that John Taylor Gatto alludes to, I don't know, but it aint happenin' down at the corner school! We shouldn't demonize public education, but shouldn't romanticize it either.
Joanna
I also think that conversations like that spontaneously generate from time spent together. If you haven't seen each other all day, are trying to get dinner on the table, just got home from work, school, etc. you don't have any "easy" time. You wouldn't get together with a friend and delve instantly into your deepest thoughts!
"...and I wondered if traditional education as we have come to develop it in this country was a means of making resources available to multiple groups of people that were previously only available to a few; things like libraries, and time for conversation, and discussions about politics around newspaper articles."
Your thought sounds nice, but I don't think this is what's really happening at school--time for conversation and discussions about politics around newspaper articles. It might be happening at those "elite" schools that John Taylor Gatto alludes to, I don't know, but it aint happenin' down at the corner school! We shouldn't demonize public education, but shouldn't romanticize it either.
Joanna