reading : how long to wait?
LauraM
I'm looking for some insight and advice here please on the subject of Reading, with regard to the concept of 'reading in their own time'. The situation is thus: my son who just turned 12 has wanted to read and attempted to sporadically for some time. All the while i'm thinking, " well, as an unschooler he will get it when his brain develops to that place." I assisted him when he asked or when he was interested because many times, while he claimed to want to read, he just didnt try and i basically felt it was either because before we came to homeschooling he struggled in school with reading and/or he was always busier with some other activity.
Now, here we are and he is showing much more interest in reading so we sit and help him. The thing is he seems to really stuggle with reading over and over again and when i've read so many stories about unschoolers who begin getting it and take off seemingly overnight i have to wonder. I've begun looking into testing for auditory processing because he seems to have a few of the signs for that 'learning gate' ( as per a link on Hslda).
So far it proves to be quite expensive to just have the test but luckily my insurance will cover a portion of therapy if we choose it.
Does anyone have any experience, links, or knowledge of testing That doesn't cost $500?
Thank you
Laura In Pa
Now, here we are and he is showing much more interest in reading so we sit and help him. The thing is he seems to really stuggle with reading over and over again and when i've read so many stories about unschoolers who begin getting it and take off seemingly overnight i have to wonder. I've begun looking into testing for auditory processing because he seems to have a few of the signs for that 'learning gate' ( as per a link on Hslda).
So far it proves to be quite expensive to just have the test but luckily my insurance will cover a portion of therapy if we choose it.
Does anyone have any experience, links, or knowledge of testing That doesn't cost $500?
Thank you
Laura In Pa
Jenny Cyphers
***Now, here we are and he is showing much more interest in reading so we sit and help him. The thing is he seems to really stuggle with reading over and over again and when i've read so many stories about unschoolers who begin getting it and take off seemingly overnight i have to wonder.***
What kinds of things are you doing to help him read? It sounds like you are helping him with some sort of reading program or workbooks or such. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way you've described it caused me to think that.
My oldest started really reading at about the age of 11. Before that time, everything she did led up to that point. When she played games online or on the PS2 or her DS, or gameboy for that matter, she would ask what something said and we'd tell her. It was that simple. When she wanted to spell something we'd spell it for her. Over time of doing that, and reading aloud to her and listening to books on tape and on cd, receiving b-day cards with notes, and letters from friends, and looking up things online, she eventually knew enough words to be able to string them together.
We were just talking about this last night. Margaux, currently 8, has been playing hang man with anyone who is willing and able. She likes 4 letter words right now (and yes, some of "those" words get into the mix). Last night I held the word "eyes" while she guessed. She had every letter but the "s" and she still didn't get it. Chamille, currently 15, was sitting there next to her at the table trying to give her hints and clues. Then she said, "Margaux that's such and easy word, how come you didn't get that one?" She really didn't understand how that was a hard word. So, we all talked about phonics and the crazy way in which the English language doesn't follow phonics very easily. The word "eyes" was just one of many examples.
Chamille didn't know what phonics was, so I explained it to her and she said, "oh, that never made sense to me." I told her that I knew that and I explained to her how I saw how she learned how to read, and how she would ask what a word was and then she'd rarely ask about that word ever again because once she knew it, she knew it, and eventually she knew enough to read. She confirmed that to be true and said that she is still like that with new words, once she sees it and knows it, she knows it for good. (she rarely misspells a word too, except the few that are the same but spelled different based on context and meaning, but even those ones she's really getting better with) Then, since Margaux was there listening in on all of it, we talked about phonics a bit, because Margaux really DOES get the whole sounding out of words and figuring out what a word is, by the sounds the letters make. The word "eyes" doesn't sound at all like it's spelled and we
talked about that, and I admitted to giving her that word on purpose to throw her a doozy which also had the letter "y", which is a letter that's way down the list in a game of hang man.
So, before going to some specialist, think about how your son IS reading and understanding the written word. If you can figure that out, you'll have a much bigger piece of the puzzle to be able to help him in a way that really does work for him. Do you play word games at all? Hang man is really pretty fun, so is Wheel of Fortune, which to me is a version of hang man done all with pizzazz and money. We have lots of alphabet letters on our fridge that we play word games with, nothing formal, just messing around stuff. When I realized that Chamille learned words when she saw them and connected what the word was, I started putting labels on all kinds of things all over the house just for fun. We printed out all kinds of neat sayings too, to hang up on walls, and that was mostly her doing from finding things online that were silly or interesting. Margaux has also really enjoyed board games like clue where you need to at least recognize a bit of the
written words to get it, well, unless of course you have a child with really excellent memory. Chamille used to win Clue all the time before she could read and she never marked anything down on her paper, she just kept a log of it in her head as she found clues.
If he's 12, does he do online chats or gaming chats? Does he have a cell phone to text with? Those are really great ways to learn how to communicate with written word, even with shortcuts. If not, what DOES he like and perhaps others can show you how reading is and can be a part of that?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What kinds of things are you doing to help him read? It sounds like you are helping him with some sort of reading program or workbooks or such. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way you've described it caused me to think that.
My oldest started really reading at about the age of 11. Before that time, everything she did led up to that point. When she played games online or on the PS2 or her DS, or gameboy for that matter, she would ask what something said and we'd tell her. It was that simple. When she wanted to spell something we'd spell it for her. Over time of doing that, and reading aloud to her and listening to books on tape and on cd, receiving b-day cards with notes, and letters from friends, and looking up things online, she eventually knew enough words to be able to string them together.
We were just talking about this last night. Margaux, currently 8, has been playing hang man with anyone who is willing and able. She likes 4 letter words right now (and yes, some of "those" words get into the mix). Last night I held the word "eyes" while she guessed. She had every letter but the "s" and she still didn't get it. Chamille, currently 15, was sitting there next to her at the table trying to give her hints and clues. Then she said, "Margaux that's such and easy word, how come you didn't get that one?" She really didn't understand how that was a hard word. So, we all talked about phonics and the crazy way in which the English language doesn't follow phonics very easily. The word "eyes" was just one of many examples.
Chamille didn't know what phonics was, so I explained it to her and she said, "oh, that never made sense to me." I told her that I knew that and I explained to her how I saw how she learned how to read, and how she would ask what a word was and then she'd rarely ask about that word ever again because once she knew it, she knew it, and eventually she knew enough to read. She confirmed that to be true and said that she is still like that with new words, once she sees it and knows it, she knows it for good. (she rarely misspells a word too, except the few that are the same but spelled different based on context and meaning, but even those ones she's really getting better with) Then, since Margaux was there listening in on all of it, we talked about phonics a bit, because Margaux really DOES get the whole sounding out of words and figuring out what a word is, by the sounds the letters make. The word "eyes" doesn't sound at all like it's spelled and we
talked about that, and I admitted to giving her that word on purpose to throw her a doozy which also had the letter "y", which is a letter that's way down the list in a game of hang man.
So, before going to some specialist, think about how your son IS reading and understanding the written word. If you can figure that out, you'll have a much bigger piece of the puzzle to be able to help him in a way that really does work for him. Do you play word games at all? Hang man is really pretty fun, so is Wheel of Fortune, which to me is a version of hang man done all with pizzazz and money. We have lots of alphabet letters on our fridge that we play word games with, nothing formal, just messing around stuff. When I realized that Chamille learned words when she saw them and connected what the word was, I started putting labels on all kinds of things all over the house just for fun. We printed out all kinds of neat sayings too, to hang up on walls, and that was mostly her doing from finding things online that were silly or interesting. Margaux has also really enjoyed board games like clue where you need to at least recognize a bit of the
written words to get it, well, unless of course you have a child with really excellent memory. Chamille used to win Clue all the time before she could read and she never marked anything down on her paper, she just kept a log of it in her head as she found clues.
If he's 12, does he do online chats or gaming chats? Does he have a cell phone to text with? Those are really great ways to learn how to communicate with written word, even with shortcuts. If not, what DOES he like and perhaps others can show you how reading is and can be a part of that?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RobynC
===All the while i'm thinking, " well, as an unschooler he will get it when his brain develops to that place." I assisted him when he asked or when he was interested because many times, while he claimed to want to read, he just didnt try ===
Laura, can you describe what assisting him looks like? What would him "trying" have looked like to you?
=== I've begun looking into testing for auditory processing because he seems to have a few of the signs for that 'learning gate' ( as per a link on Hslda). =====
Is he able to understand and follow a story or instructions that are read aloud to him?
Is he able to follow spoken conversations like on tv or in movies?
What kinds of materials are available to him for reading? Are they tied to his interests and reflect his spoken vocabulary level? I'm thinking of the many, many stories of kids learning to read from using their gaming manuals.
"Learning gate"? What, is that another phrase for "learning window" only with more swing?? HSLDA is not particularly well known as an unschooling friendly organization. Perhaps information from their site is less relevant to the practice of unschooling than the experiences of actual unschoolers.
I'm just flying in for a quick visit - but FWIW I don't think 12 is exceedingly late to read outside of a school situation, especially for a busy and engaged kid.
Jayn, now 10, has learnt to read so gradually that there was never a moment when I saw any kind of pre-reading readiness event cluster, if that is what characterizes a "learning gate". She just slowly got better at it and needed less help, in many small jumps. They were jumps too. It started with recognizing logos and signs, like store names, when she was a toddler, and now she is laboriously writing her own stories out, instead of asking me to type them.
It's not quite automatic yet. She still has to direct her attention to her decoding process. Funny story - a couple of months ago she got irritated that I was reading in bed, because I had told her I was tired and going to bed instead of playing any longer. "I thought you were too tired". She still finds reading hard work, so she didn't realize that it was relaxing and easy for me. I had to think about it to understand what was upsetting her.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Laura, can you describe what assisting him looks like? What would him "trying" have looked like to you?
=== I've begun looking into testing for auditory processing because he seems to have a few of the signs for that 'learning gate' ( as per a link on Hslda). =====
Is he able to understand and follow a story or instructions that are read aloud to him?
Is he able to follow spoken conversations like on tv or in movies?
What kinds of materials are available to him for reading? Are they tied to his interests and reflect his spoken vocabulary level? I'm thinking of the many, many stories of kids learning to read from using their gaming manuals.
"Learning gate"? What, is that another phrase for "learning window" only with more swing?? HSLDA is not particularly well known as an unschooling friendly organization. Perhaps information from their site is less relevant to the practice of unschooling than the experiences of actual unschoolers.
I'm just flying in for a quick visit - but FWIW I don't think 12 is exceedingly late to read outside of a school situation, especially for a busy and engaged kid.
Jayn, now 10, has learnt to read so gradually that there was never a moment when I saw any kind of pre-reading readiness event cluster, if that is what characterizes a "learning gate". She just slowly got better at it and needed less help, in many small jumps. They were jumps too. It started with recognizing logos and signs, like store names, when she was a toddler, and now she is laboriously writing her own stories out, instead of asking me to type them.
It's not quite automatic yet. She still has to direct her attention to her decoding process. Funny story - a couple of months ago she got irritated that I was reading in bed, because I had told her I was tired and going to bed instead of playing any longer. "I thought you were too tired". She still finds reading hard work, so she didn't realize that it was relaxing and easy for me. I had to think about it to understand what was upsetting her.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Rebecca McClure
--- In [email protected], "LauraM" <la_tree@...> wrote:
I'm also curious how long he's been unschooling (as you mention he had trouble reading at school, so reading may still have some emotional landmines for him).
There are people in the world with a true, brain-based dyslexia (which can be determined by a proper psychoeducational assessment administered by a registered psychologist -- so, not an inexpensive option and one that can be highly stressful for kids). Just like everybody else, they have to make sense of reading in their own way. I've seen parents spend oodles of money for interventions that really didn't speed up the process that much (although some may disagree with me). And it is possible that his learning-to-read pace is still developmental/emotional for your son. If so, simply waiting, if *he* is cool with that, won't hurt.
A friend of mine told me a story about one of her adult friends who has severe dyslexia: he can read, but it took him a while to sort it out (even when in school) and it took focus/desire on his part to put it together. He doesn't read for pleasure but he can certainly make his way through the world.
BTW, I can't say enough about quality graphic novels for kids who are just on the cusp of reading. If he wants to read, strew these around and the pictorial clues may be helpful and lessen any frustration he may be feeling (if he is feeling any frustration).
- Rebecca
>Laura, are you still willing for him to take his time to learn to read? I hear that he would like to and supporting that is great, but there are some kids who just take that extra bit of time to pull things together. If you are willing to extend the trust you've shown thus far and not worry about it (which can be contagious), then perhaps he'll be able to relax into it when he's ready.
> I'm looking for some insight and advice here please on the subject of Reading, with regard to the concept of 'reading in their own time'. The situation is thus: my son who just turned 12 has wanted to read and attempted to sporadically for some time.<
I'm also curious how long he's been unschooling (as you mention he had trouble reading at school, so reading may still have some emotional landmines for him).
> I've begun looking into testing for auditory processing because he seems to have a few of the signs for that 'learning gate' ( as per a link on Hslda). <I have a background in Special Ed and I'm wondering why it is you think he has an auditory processing issue? Does he have any oral/aural language issues? Don't answer here - perhaps mull it over yourself. Usually kids with auditory processing issues have trouble with receptive listening, not reading (although the phoneme awareness thing can be a factor). Also, in my honest and humble opinion, there's a lot of snake oil out there in terms of treating auditory processing. Your best bet is a Speech and Language Pathologist who will assess and make recommendations, if you think that's warranted. I've looked at the HSLDA page and I think that many of their symptoms are far too global - I can see that a lot of "false positive" self-diagnoses could result. (Link for anyone else who wants to look at it: http://www.hslda.org/strugglinglearner/sn_auditory.asp).
There are people in the world with a true, brain-based dyslexia (which can be determined by a proper psychoeducational assessment administered by a registered psychologist -- so, not an inexpensive option and one that can be highly stressful for kids). Just like everybody else, they have to make sense of reading in their own way. I've seen parents spend oodles of money for interventions that really didn't speed up the process that much (although some may disagree with me). And it is possible that his learning-to-read pace is still developmental/emotional for your son. If so, simply waiting, if *he* is cool with that, won't hurt.
A friend of mine told me a story about one of her adult friends who has severe dyslexia: he can read, but it took him a while to sort it out (even when in school) and it took focus/desire on his part to put it together. He doesn't read for pleasure but he can certainly make his way through the world.
BTW, I can't say enough about quality graphic novels for kids who are just on the cusp of reading. If he wants to read, strew these around and the pictorial clues may be helpful and lessen any frustration he may be feeling (if he is feeling any frustration).
- Rebecca
Sandra Dodd
-=-If he's 12, does he do online chats or gaming chats? Does he have a
cell phone to text with? Those are really great ways to learn how to
communicate with written word, even with shortcuts. If not, what DOES
he like and perhaps others can show you how reading is and can be a
part of that?-=-
Those are important questions!
If he plays video games with any text involved at all, that will
help. If you buy him a player's guide for a favorite game (or find
him online sites where he can be playing the game on the TV and have
the help or maps pages open on a computer there) that might help, but
don't tell him "This is so you can learn to read."
If he was already frustrated by school, and now you're treating him
like there's something wrong with him, and if you're reading HSLDA
stuff (I advise against that), there's already an atmosphere of
reading being dangerous and difficult and crucial and overwhelming.
Rather than having ANY expensive tests, please read here. If there's
any part you haven't read, please read it; if you read the other,
please read it again. There are a lot of important ideas and
reassurances there that we shouldn't need to repeat in detail on the
list.
http://sandradodd.com/reading
-=-I assisted him when he asked or when he was interested because many
times, while he claimed to want to read, he just didnt try and i
basically felt it was either because before we came to homeschooling
he struggled in school with reading and/or he was always busier with
some other activity.-=-
How long was he in school?
Did you go to homeschooling then, or unschooling?
Are you unschoolers now?
And the real question is "how long to wait" for what? Lessons mess
people up more than anything, with reading. Unless you're trying to
teach phonics, auditory processing tests shouldn't matter if he speaks
clearly and can understand what people are talking about.
-=he seems to have a few of the signs for that 'learning gate' -=-
Please... there isn't "a learning gate." Gates shut people out more
than they let people in. Just the image and the term itself are harsh
and frightening.
My daughter learned to read at 11. "Just turned 12" is that age.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cell phone to text with? Those are really great ways to learn how to
communicate with written word, even with shortcuts. If not, what DOES
he like and perhaps others can show you how reading is and can be a
part of that?-=-
Those are important questions!
If he plays video games with any text involved at all, that will
help. If you buy him a player's guide for a favorite game (or find
him online sites where he can be playing the game on the TV and have
the help or maps pages open on a computer there) that might help, but
don't tell him "This is so you can learn to read."
If he was already frustrated by school, and now you're treating him
like there's something wrong with him, and if you're reading HSLDA
stuff (I advise against that), there's already an atmosphere of
reading being dangerous and difficult and crucial and overwhelming.
Rather than having ANY expensive tests, please read here. If there's
any part you haven't read, please read it; if you read the other,
please read it again. There are a lot of important ideas and
reassurances there that we shouldn't need to repeat in detail on the
list.
http://sandradodd.com/reading
-=-I assisted him when he asked or when he was interested because many
times, while he claimed to want to read, he just didnt try and i
basically felt it was either because before we came to homeschooling
he struggled in school with reading and/or he was always busier with
some other activity.-=-
How long was he in school?
Did you go to homeschooling then, or unschooling?
Are you unschoolers now?
And the real question is "how long to wait" for what? Lessons mess
people up more than anything, with reading. Unless you're trying to
teach phonics, auditory processing tests shouldn't matter if he speaks
clearly and can understand what people are talking about.
-=he seems to have a few of the signs for that 'learning gate' -=-
Please... there isn't "a learning gate." Gates shut people out more
than they let people in. Just the image and the term itself are harsh
and frightening.
My daughter learned to read at 11. "Just turned 12" is that age.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I can't say enough about quality graphic novels for kids who are
just on the cusp of reading. -=-
Good idea!! Or even plain old comics, online. Kirby liked Garfield
books, and those are available at used bookstores. There are other,
newer things, but used book stores might be a place to look too, and
let him pick his own.
-=-I've seen parents spend oodles of money for interventions that
really didn't speed up the process that much (although some may
disagree with me). -=-
I think not only it doesn't necessarily speed the process up, it can
cause a child to relax into "being a non-reader" and feel so branded
for life.
-=-A friend of mine told me a story about one of her adult friends who
has severe dyslexia: he can read, but it took him a while to sort it
out (even when in school) and it took focus/desire on his part to put
it together-=-
I bet he could have sorted it out sooner without school and without
lessons.
My dad was very dyslexic. Math came easily. He couldn't read very
well at all, but I didn't know it until I was 15 or so and showed him
a comic in the newspaper and it took him a long time to read it and
then he was embarrassed. He had been forced to use his right hand,
when he was very left-handed, so most of his school years were spent
with that school-induced handicap, too. I can't imagine if they had
made me use my left hand while my smarter right hand was *right there.*
My husband reads for fun, but he has that same set of math-lots, left-
handed, words not as easy. When I met him he was a terrible speller,
at the age of 20. Our unschooled kids spelled better at that age than
Keith had, and he had been in school, two years of college and a
technical-school degree. He went on to finish an engineering degree,
and eventually became a better speller, so his own pace wasn't "done"
even when he was grown.
I expected Marty, who's a lot like Keith, to have a hard time with
reading. Same, leftie, math&spatial talent. But Marty got it much
more easily. Still, he was nine.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
just on the cusp of reading. -=-
Good idea!! Or even plain old comics, online. Kirby liked Garfield
books, and those are available at used bookstores. There are other,
newer things, but used book stores might be a place to look too, and
let him pick his own.
-=-I've seen parents spend oodles of money for interventions that
really didn't speed up the process that much (although some may
disagree with me). -=-
I think not only it doesn't necessarily speed the process up, it can
cause a child to relax into "being a non-reader" and feel so branded
for life.
-=-A friend of mine told me a story about one of her adult friends who
has severe dyslexia: he can read, but it took him a while to sort it
out (even when in school) and it took focus/desire on his part to put
it together-=-
I bet he could have sorted it out sooner without school and without
lessons.
My dad was very dyslexic. Math came easily. He couldn't read very
well at all, but I didn't know it until I was 15 or so and showed him
a comic in the newspaper and it took him a long time to read it and
then he was embarrassed. He had been forced to use his right hand,
when he was very left-handed, so most of his school years were spent
with that school-induced handicap, too. I can't imagine if they had
made me use my left hand while my smarter right hand was *right there.*
My husband reads for fun, but he has that same set of math-lots, left-
handed, words not as easy. When I met him he was a terrible speller,
at the age of 20. Our unschooled kids spelled better at that age than
Keith had, and he had been in school, two years of college and a
technical-school degree. He went on to finish an engineering degree,
and eventually became a better speller, so his own pace wasn't "done"
even when he was grown.
I expected Marty, who's a lot like Keith, to have a hard time with
reading. Same, leftie, math&spatial talent. But Marty got it much
more easily. Still, he was nine.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Su Penn
On Mar 23, 2010, at 1:06 AM, LauraM wrote:
What has almost always happened is that some time during my enforced not-worrying period, something happens to reassure me. The other thing that happens is the worry just passes. So sometimes something changes outside me in that time, and sometimes it changes inside.
Su, mom to Eric 8; Carl, almost 6; Yehva, 2.5
tapeflags.blogspot.com
> I'm looking for some insight and advice here please on the subject of Reading, with regard to the concept of 'reading in their own time'. The situation is thus: my son who just turned 12 has wanted to read and attempted to sporadically for some time.The question you put in your subject line is "how long to wait." Something that helps me when I'm fretting about one of the kids not doing something I wish they were doing, or I have this notion they "should" be doing, is that I tell myself, "I'm not going to worry about this for 30 days," or until a certain date, maybe a few months away, or the kid's next birthday. I remind myself that it is very unlikely that there's some window in the next 30 days that, if I miss it, will ruin the kid for life.
What has almost always happened is that some time during my enforced not-worrying period, something happens to reassure me. The other thing that happens is the worry just passes. So sometimes something changes outside me in that time, and sometimes it changes inside.
Su, mom to Eric 8; Carl, almost 6; Yehva, 2.5
tapeflags.blogspot.com
lalow66
My kids are still young.my oldest is 8. My mom is visiting and really doesnt understand what we do. She is always wondering why we are not making the kids read each day, or why i dont have spelling words etc. I have a hard time explaining it so I just tell her we have it covered. She doesnt see it though. The other night my 8 year old son, who is reading some, and trying to write was playing roblox, my mother is here and we were upstairs and could here him reading and talking to himself while he was writing responses. He wasnt always reading it perfectly and his writing isnt great from some standards but he is really into it and getting better all the time. I pointed this all out to here but she really didnt see that as beneficial as my sitting down and making him do these things. He has really wanted that game scribblenauts so we bought it the other day. He has played that several times a day for the past 3 or 4 days. Often using his own spelling, often asking me to spell things... She also does not see that as writing...I guess it is too much fun.
m_kher
--- In [email protected], "LauraM" <la_tree@...> wrote:
My son (8) reads words here and there while playing computer games and asks me to read when he can't. He also likes watching old animated shows like Pink Panther and Loony Tunes. They have a lot of writing in them, usually signs. I read those to him if wants me too.
Manisha
> Now, here we are and he is showing much more interest in reading so we sit and help him.What is he interested in reading? Reading is a tool. When my daughter learned to read, she had just discovered Calvin and Hobbes and wanted to read it. It wasn't overnight. She poured over it for hours. She still prefers comic books and graphic novels.
My son (8) reads words here and there while playing computer games and asks me to read when he can't. He also likes watching old animated shows like Pink Panther and Loony Tunes. They have a lot of writing in them, usually signs. I read those to him if wants me too.
Manisha
Pam Sorooshian
On 3/23/2010 12:42 AM, RobynC wrote:
writing problems, and focus/attention. It is just the same old special
needs stuff wrapped up in a cutesy package. For the most part it means
the kid's brain isn't ready and the kid isn't interested.
I've known so many kids who would have been diagnosed with special
needs/reading disabilities, if they'd been in school (including one of
my own daughters), but who eventually learned to read, and read WELL,
that this has become a non-issue in my mind. I don't any longer have
even a pang of worry over it as long as we're talking about a kid who
plays games, watches movies, carries on coherent (and even not entirely
coherent) discussions, etc.
I'm assuming that by "assist him" you meant you tried to teach him how
to sound out words. His brain is probably not ready for that, so it will
just be an exercise in frustration and what he WILL probably learn from
it is that he is dumb and learning is hard.
If the kid is wanting to read, he might need to know that wanting it
doesn't make his brain ready to do it. Hard reality to accept, though,
for some kids. Maybe together make a list of words he uses a lot in a
game he plays, put them on flash cards and I bet he can read (recognize)
those words in no time. Add a few new words every day or so, as long as
he is interested. That is learning to read. The whole phonics side of it
will click in after he's memorized a lot of words. So, encourage him to
understand that memorizing/recognizing what words look like, in context,
is a big step toward reading.
-pam
> "Learning gate"? What, is that another phrase for "learning window"There are four kinds of gates - visual processing, auditory processing,
> only with more swing?? HSLDA is not particularly well known as an
> unschooling friendly organization. Perhaps information from their site
> is less relevant to the practice of unschooling than the experiences
> of actual unschoolers.
writing problems, and focus/attention. It is just the same old special
needs stuff wrapped up in a cutesy package. For the most part it means
the kid's brain isn't ready and the kid isn't interested.
I've known so many kids who would have been diagnosed with special
needs/reading disabilities, if they'd been in school (including one of
my own daughters), but who eventually learned to read, and read WELL,
that this has become a non-issue in my mind. I don't any longer have
even a pang of worry over it as long as we're talking about a kid who
plays games, watches movies, carries on coherent (and even not entirely
coherent) discussions, etc.
I'm assuming that by "assist him" you meant you tried to teach him how
to sound out words. His brain is probably not ready for that, so it will
just be an exercise in frustration and what he WILL probably learn from
it is that he is dumb and learning is hard.
If the kid is wanting to read, he might need to know that wanting it
doesn't make his brain ready to do it. Hard reality to accept, though,
for some kids. Maybe together make a list of words he uses a lot in a
game he plays, put them on flash cards and I bet he can read (recognize)
those words in no time. Add a few new words every day or so, as long as
he is interested. That is learning to read. The whole phonics side of it
will click in after he's memorized a lot of words. So, encourage him to
understand that memorizing/recognizing what words look like, in context,
is a big step toward reading.
-pam
Jenny Cyphers
***I'm assuming that by "assist him" you meant you tried to teach him how
to sound out words. His brain is probably not ready for that, so it will
just be an exercise in frustration and what he WILL probably learn from
it is that he is dumb and learning is hard.***
***The whole phonics side of it
will click in after he's memorized a lot of words. So, encourage him to
understand that memorizing/recogniz ing what words look like, in context,
is a big step toward reading.***
Exactly! And if he's anything like Chamille, phonics will just confuse the heck out of him! She did NOT get phonics until she already knew how to read. Phonics works for some kids, but certainly not all of them. Phonics actually isn't the best system anyway as it creates a lot of ideas about spelling that aren't right.
I told Chamille the story of her best friend, who learned how to read when she was 4, wrote little notes to her mom with words mostly spelled right, then when she went to school, they put her in the "gifted" program because she knew how to read and began to teach her phonics. Suddenly all her spelling went out the window and she started second guessing herself and what she knew because it didn't match her phonics lessons. It was interesting to watch from the sidelines and only confirmed what I already knew, that forcing reading lessons on a kid does more harm than good.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to sound out words. His brain is probably not ready for that, so it will
just be an exercise in frustration and what he WILL probably learn from
it is that he is dumb and learning is hard.***
***The whole phonics side of it
will click in after he's memorized a lot of words. So, encourage him to
understand that memorizing/recogniz ing what words look like, in context,
is a big step toward reading.***
Exactly! And if he's anything like Chamille, phonics will just confuse the heck out of him! She did NOT get phonics until she already knew how to read. Phonics works for some kids, but certainly not all of them. Phonics actually isn't the best system anyway as it creates a lot of ideas about spelling that aren't right.
I told Chamille the story of her best friend, who learned how to read when she was 4, wrote little notes to her mom with words mostly spelled right, then when she went to school, they put her in the "gifted" program because she knew how to read and began to teach her phonics. Suddenly all her spelling went out the window and she started second guessing herself and what she knew because it didn't match her phonics lessons. It was interesting to watch from the sidelines and only confirmed what I already knew, that forcing reading lessons on a kid does more harm than good.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Wiley
>My 3rd daughter took off with reading because of Tintin comics. She would
> -=-I can't say enough about quality graphic novels for kids who are
> just on the cusp of reading. -=-
>
> Good idea!! Or even plain old comics, online. Kirby liked Garfield
> books, and those are available at used bookstores. There are other,
> newer things, but used book stores might be a place to look too, and
> let him pick his own.
>
pore over them for long stretches, sometimes asking me or one of her older
sisters to read to her, sometimes just wanting to figure out the story from
the pictures. Tintin, Calvin & Hobbes, and the big "Showcase Presents"
collections of 50s/60s/70s superhero comics�those things look like phone
books, big thick books with black & white art. She learned a lot about
elements and magnetism and other science-y stuff from those comics, too.
Not comics, but kind of cool: my son is learning to read in large part from
Signing Time DVDs, which he watches over and over and over. He is hard of
hearing and even with hearing aids can only hear a few consonants, so
phonics & sounding out doesn't make a lot of sense to him. Signing Time
shows and says the word in English along with the ASL sign, and he can read
pretty much any word he's seen on those DVDs�read them in other contexts, I
mean, like in the grocery store last week he said, "Family," and showed me
the word on a "family-sized" bag of chips. And on the next aisle, he read
"Home" on Home Pride bread. And then wanted to know what the p-r-i-d-e part
was.
Lissa in San Diego
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
***Not comics, but kind of cool: my son is learning to read in large part from
Signing Time DVDs, which he watches over and over and over. He is hard of
hearing and even with hearing aids can only hear a few consonants, so
phonics & sounding out doesn't make a lot of sense to him. ****
I've been reading about how Deaf kids learn to read - very interesting. Its a huge issue, because schools can't wrap their heads around the concept of reading without phonics. For Deaf kids, the letters don't necessarily have sounds (that might come, but only after years and years of oral training), but they have shape and, if they're learning fingerspelling, they have corresponding 3-dimensional hand shapes. But, turns out that Deaf kids learn to read best if they learn to sign well, first. And they associate written words with their signs, not with the sounds or shapes of the individual letters that make up the word. Deaf readers are more likely to confuse, for example, the written words, "tea" and "vote," because their ASL signs are very similar, than to confuse "pea" and "tea" which are phonetically more similar but have dissimilar ASL signs.
-pam
Signing Time DVDs, which he watches over and over and over. He is hard of
hearing and even with hearing aids can only hear a few consonants, so
phonics & sounding out doesn't make a lot of sense to him. ****
I've been reading about how Deaf kids learn to read - very interesting. Its a huge issue, because schools can't wrap their heads around the concept of reading without phonics. For Deaf kids, the letters don't necessarily have sounds (that might come, but only after years and years of oral training), but they have shape and, if they're learning fingerspelling, they have corresponding 3-dimensional hand shapes. But, turns out that Deaf kids learn to read best if they learn to sign well, first. And they associate written words with their signs, not with the sounds or shapes of the individual letters that make up the word. Deaf readers are more likely to confuse, for example, the written words, "tea" and "vote," because their ASL signs are very similar, than to confuse "pea" and "tea" which are phonetically more similar but have dissimilar ASL signs.
-pam
lalow66
" I've been reading about how Deaf kids learn to read - very interesting. Its a huge issue, because schools can't wrap their heads around the concept of reading without phonics. For Deaf kids, the letters don't necessarily have sounds (that might come, but only after years and years of oral training), but they have shape and, if they're learning fingerspelling, they have corresponding 3-dimensional hand shapes. But, turns out that Deaf kids learn to read best if they learn to sign well, first. And they associate written words with their signs, not with the sounds or shapes of the individual letters that make up the word. Deaf readers are more likely to confuse, for example, the written words, "tea" and "vote," because their ASL signs are very similar, than to confuse "pea" and "tea" which are phonetically more similar but have dissimilar ASL signs."
>when my oldest son was 5. I realized he did not know his numbers. He could not when looking at the number 3 for example say the "three". It worried me cause he was my oldest child and I knew 2 and 3 year olds that could identify numbers. one day we were doing something and I asked him what number he was looking at (it was a 5) and rather than say the number name "five", he held up 5 finger, counted from 1 to 5. and then said "five". It was then that I realized although he didnt associate the word "five" with the symbol 5, he was identifying 5 with its value or meaning first. Dont know if it was related but My son is not hard of hearing but I signed with him when he was a baby. He had almost 80 signs and putting signs together in phrases before he ever spoke. By the time he was 5 he was no longer signing.
> -pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-when my oldest son was 5. I realized he did not know his numbers.-=-
He knew the numbers, but not the numerals.
I think it's an important distinction, like being a musician without
reading music.
He just didn't recognize any notation, but he had the counting and
correspondence ideas. Maybe he would've read Roman numerals more
easily! More like fingers. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
He knew the numbers, but not the numerals.
I think it's an important distinction, like being a musician without
reading music.
He just didn't recognize any notation, but he had the counting and
correspondence ideas. Maybe he would've read Roman numerals more
easily! More like fingers. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KELLY A SHULTZ
On Mar 23, 2010, at 12:06 AM, LauraM wrote:
I wanted to pick out this little statement, and try to understand it
more. Does your son feel or say that he is struggling? Or is that
evaluation coming from your perspective? If you ask him how he feels
about the progress that he is making, is he content, or does he feel
discontent? Those are the barometers I would try to use for
determining if any other activity needed to be added to the mix.
Given that he has just begun the process of "actively" trying to learn
to read, I would certainly give it a very long window before
considering any sort of outside testing, and then only after really
getting a lot of feedback from my child that there was something wrong
and not happening for them.
Also, is this typical of his other learning patterns? Does he
typically just jump in with other things? Or is he slower and more
cautious with his learning, and take time to master things....what
other learning situations can you derive some valuable insights from
that will apply to this situation, and give you comfort that yes, in
fact, he will master it, in his own time?
I can certainly appreciate your concern, we have an 11.5 yo who is
just beginning to learn to read herself. At this age, I can only
imagine that you've received a lot of outside pressure yourself, in
the form of inquiries from friends and family. We certainly have, and
at times, it's been difficult to be the one to remain confident that
yes, in fact, it will happen, and to absorb all of that concern with
confidence and aplomb.
Our daughter has also just decided to pursue learning to read a little
bit more seriously. This has taken the form of looking at flash cards
with letters on them, and learning the sounds. This was her specific
request. She felt that if she understood the sounds, she would be
able to figure out words most easily herself. This came from
discussion over months.
She is now starting to read certain words, mostly on the television
programming display, also on World of Warcraft, and in some other
places in our day-to-day life. The .
What I've witnessed with our younger daughter, 9, who is a little bit
ahead, is that the list of words that she could read was very small
for quite some time, perhaps 10-20 words, like yes, no, family names,
pet names, etc. When the list of words begins to grow, it moves
slowly, but then begins to snowball, going faster and faster, gaining
momentum. It is now starting to happen for our 11.5 year old. I
don't expect her to begin reading books yet, simply to continue to be
able to read the information around her more and more each day. Books
will come when she is ready. She was able to sit and listen to the
entire Twilight series, in long 8-10 hour stretches, so I'm confident
that she will ultimately be reading books that she loves on her own in
long stretches also.
Anyway, hope that is helpful in some way. I haven't posted here in
ages, but just saw this thread while I was searching emails for
something tax-related, and thought "hey, here's a topic I actually can
reply to!"
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The thing is he seems to really stuggle with reading over and overLaura,
> again
>
I wanted to pick out this little statement, and try to understand it
more. Does your son feel or say that he is struggling? Or is that
evaluation coming from your perspective? If you ask him how he feels
about the progress that he is making, is he content, or does he feel
discontent? Those are the barometers I would try to use for
determining if any other activity needed to be added to the mix.
Given that he has just begun the process of "actively" trying to learn
to read, I would certainly give it a very long window before
considering any sort of outside testing, and then only after really
getting a lot of feedback from my child that there was something wrong
and not happening for them.
Also, is this typical of his other learning patterns? Does he
typically just jump in with other things? Or is he slower and more
cautious with his learning, and take time to master things....what
other learning situations can you derive some valuable insights from
that will apply to this situation, and give you comfort that yes, in
fact, he will master it, in his own time?
I can certainly appreciate your concern, we have an 11.5 yo who is
just beginning to learn to read herself. At this age, I can only
imagine that you've received a lot of outside pressure yourself, in
the form of inquiries from friends and family. We certainly have, and
at times, it's been difficult to be the one to remain confident that
yes, in fact, it will happen, and to absorb all of that concern with
confidence and aplomb.
Our daughter has also just decided to pursue learning to read a little
bit more seriously. This has taken the form of looking at flash cards
with letters on them, and learning the sounds. This was her specific
request. She felt that if she understood the sounds, she would be
able to figure out words most easily herself. This came from
discussion over months.
She is now starting to read certain words, mostly on the television
programming display, also on World of Warcraft, and in some other
places in our day-to-day life. The .
What I've witnessed with our younger daughter, 9, who is a little bit
ahead, is that the list of words that she could read was very small
for quite some time, perhaps 10-20 words, like yes, no, family names,
pet names, etc. When the list of words begins to grow, it moves
slowly, but then begins to snowball, going faster and faster, gaining
momentum. It is now starting to happen for our 11.5 year old. I
don't expect her to begin reading books yet, simply to continue to be
able to read the information around her more and more each day. Books
will come when she is ready. She was able to sit and listen to the
entire Twilight series, in long 8-10 hour stretches, so I'm confident
that she will ultimately be reading books that she loves on her own in
long stretches also.
Anyway, hope that is helpful in some way. I haven't posted here in
ages, but just saw this thread while I was searching emails for
something tax-related, and thought "hey, here's a topic I actually can
reply to!"
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LauraM
--- In [email protected], "Rebecca McClure"
<ackirebecci@...> wrote:
there are some kids who just take that extra bit of time to pull things
together. If you are willing to extend the trust you've shown thus far
and not worry about it (which can be contagious), then perhaps he'll be
able to relax into it when he's ready.
Yes, i would be willing to wait as i've always been but i was really
getting this picture that when most kids begin learing it doesnt take
them too long. It's difficult to decipher when the time began that my
son truly wanted to learn and was ready developmentally because i
beleive when he left school 4 yrs ago he held onto some real
insecurities over that and the occassional pressure (albeit slight from
relatives and general public) made him *think* he wanted to learn
because he *should*. Hope that makes sense.
Relaxing into it has been very difficult for us over the last 4 months
after someone reported us to Children and youth saying our children
couldnt read and when CPS dropped it after speaking with our evalutor
the School district didnt let it go and went forth with due process.
We've just been given the 'thumbs up' from the School district but the
anxiety and concern on my part is there.
language issues? Don't answer here - perhaps mull it over yourself.
Usually kids with auditory processing issues have trouble with receptive
listening, not reading (although the phoneme awareness thing can be a
factor). Also, in my honest and humble opinion, there's a lot of snake
oil out there in terms of treating auditory processing. Your best bet is
a Speech and Language Pathologist who will assess and make
recommendations, if you think that's warranted. I've looked at the HSLDA
page and I think that many of their symptoms are far too global - I can
see that a lot of "false positive" self-diagnoses could result. (Link
for anyone else who wants to look at it:
http://www.hslda.org/strugglinglearner/sn_auditory.asp).
all the while his learning would otherwise progress naturally. I do
think sometimes he has trouble with receptive listening but not overly.
I too have worked with kids having all ranges of delays so am i
desensitized if i think his not catching everything i say is a problem
or am i overly critical when i think he should????
Thanks so much for your help
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<ackirebecci@...> wrote:
> Laura, are you still willing for him to take his time to learn toread? I hear that he would like to and supporting that is great, but
there are some kids who just take that extra bit of time to pull things
together. If you are willing to extend the trust you've shown thus far
and not worry about it (which can be contagious), then perhaps he'll be
able to relax into it when he's ready.
>Thank you for your reply Rebecca. I'm going through all these reply onthe list and am going to try to answer those i can.
Yes, i would be willing to wait as i've always been but i was really
getting this picture that when most kids begin learing it doesnt take
them too long. It's difficult to decipher when the time began that my
son truly wanted to learn and was ready developmentally because i
beleive when he left school 4 yrs ago he held onto some real
insecurities over that and the occassional pressure (albeit slight from
relatives and general public) made him *think* he wanted to learn
because he *should*. Hope that makes sense.
Relaxing into it has been very difficult for us over the last 4 months
after someone reported us to Children and youth saying our children
couldnt read and when CPS dropped it after speaking with our evalutor
the School district didnt let it go and went forth with due process.
We've just been given the 'thumbs up' from the School district but the
anxiety and concern on my part is there.
>think he has an auditory processing issue? Does he have any oral/aural
> I have a background in Special Ed and I'm wondering why it is you
language issues? Don't answer here - perhaps mull it over yourself.
Usually kids with auditory processing issues have trouble with receptive
listening, not reading (although the phoneme awareness thing can be a
factor). Also, in my honest and humble opinion, there's a lot of snake
oil out there in terms of treating auditory processing. Your best bet is
a Speech and Language Pathologist who will assess and make
recommendations, if you think that's warranted. I've looked at the HSLDA
page and I think that many of their symptoms are far too global - I can
see that a lot of "false positive" self-diagnoses could result. (Link
for anyone else who wants to look at it:
http://www.hslda.org/strugglinglearner/sn_auditory.asp).
>spending so much $$ on such a thing that might give someone a job while
>> I did also suspect that their list was global and so my concern for
all the while his learning would otherwise progress naturally. I do
think sometimes he has trouble with receptive listening but not overly.
I too have worked with kids having all ranges of delays so am i
desensitized if i think his not catching everything i say is a problem
or am i overly critical when i think he should????
Thanks so much for your help
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LauraM
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Thank you so much for your support and advice.
Laura> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>He does not do Chats and no cell phone. He spends an enormous amount of time with legos. he has recently taken to looking up lego books at the library and that is a big step. He does read some video game clues.
> -=-If he's 12, does he do online chats or gaming chats? Does he have a
> cell phone to text with? Those are really great ways to learn how to
> communicate with written word, even with shortcuts. If not, what DOES
> he like and perhaps others can show you how reading is and can be a
> part of that?-=-
>I would LOVE any idea on appropriate kids online games or other games we can use on the comp or WII; he's been playing with a few but we need new ideas.
>If he plays video games with any text involved at all, that will
> help. If you buy him a player's guide for a favorite game (or find
> him online sites where he can be playing the game on the TV and have
> the help or maps pages open on a computer there) that might help, but
> don't tell him "This is so you can learn to read."
>I have always been careful to explain that everyone reads in their own time and to have spent the last 4 yrs letting it happen. Having the school district call forth the due process after anonymous person claims your kids dont read has thrown me a bit.
> If he was already frustrated by school, and now you're treating him
> like there's something wrong with him, and if you're reading HSLDA
> stuff (I advise against that), there's already an atmosphere of
> reading being dangerous and difficult and crucial and overwhelming.
>
Thank you so much for your support and advice.
Laura> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Melissa Wiley
I would LOVE any idea on appropriate kids online games or other games we can
use on the comp or WII; he's been playing with a few but we need new ideas.
Here are some my kids enjoy:
online (and free):
Neopets
Poptropica
Runescape
Wii:
Mario Kart
Spectrobes
Harvest Moon
Super Mario Galaxy
Legend of Zelda
Wii Fit
Pajama Sam
For some of these games, he might need you to play with him to help with
parts with more text.
Super Mario Galaxy is one of my kids' favorite games, and a second player
can help by collecting star bits while the main player is solving the
puzzles.
Spectrobes has some books coming out that continue the story world of the
game.
My kids spent hours online researching recipes and other things for Harvest
Moon.
I'm sure others will have lots of suggestions too!
Lissa in San Diego
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
use on the comp or WII; he's been playing with a few but we need new ideas.
Here are some my kids enjoy:
online (and free):
Neopets
Poptropica
Runescape
Wii:
Mario Kart
Spectrobes
Harvest Moon
Super Mario Galaxy
Legend of Zelda
Wii Fit
Pajama Sam
For some of these games, he might need you to play with him to help with
parts with more text.
Super Mario Galaxy is one of my kids' favorite games, and a second player
can help by collecting star bits while the main player is solving the
puzzles.
Spectrobes has some books coming out that continue the story world of the
game.
My kids spent hours online researching recipes and other things for Harvest
Moon.
I'm sure others will have lots of suggestions too!
Lissa in San Diego
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-he has recently taken to looking up lego books at the library and
that is a big step. -=-
Do you get the Lego magazine and catalogs?
There are online Lego patterns. Might have a little text, but even
without it's still maps and translating image to action.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that is a big step. -=-
Do you get the Lego magazine and catalogs?
There are online Lego patterns. Might have a little text, but even
without it's still maps and translating image to action.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-My kids spent hours online researching recipes and other things for
Harvest
Moon.-=-
I didn't know there was Harvest Moon for the Wii. That has been,
overall, one of the biggest things in Holly's life. She goes six
months without playing it sometimes, but she has played it on several
systems.
We have XBox and Playstation, but Kirby is the only one of ours with a
Wii, so that's in Austin.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Harvest
Moon.-=-
I didn't know there was Harvest Moon for the Wii. That has been,
overall, one of the biggest things in Holly's life. She goes six
months without playing it sometimes, but she has played it on several
systems.
We have XBox and Playstation, but Kirby is the only one of ours with a
Wii, so that's in Austin.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Wiley
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 7:40 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
wrote, Sandra, about how much Holly enjoyed that game. I hadn't heard of it
before that. We *all* love it�including me. We too go in waves of playing it
intensely (sometimes just one or two of us; sometimes the crowd) and then it
will sit for a while. My 10-at-the-time daughter printed out a whole binder
full of information about the game�what presents to give which characters
for facilitating courtships; how to make various recipes; how to get the
wild animals to become your pets, etc. I could probably fill another binder
with the contents of the discussions we've had as a result of playing that
game, everything from mapmaking (something else the kids did, made maps of
the island) to marriage customs to farming. Oh!! I forgot, too, the intense
math calculating I see the kids doing as they compare profit margins on
crops. They don't think of it as "comparing profit margins," but that's what
they're doing�if strawberries cost X amount and mature in Y days but corn
costs X amount and matures in N days, what's the most profitable crop? And
some crops you harvest only once, but others continue to produce throughout
the growing season.
I really enjoy the game myself and it has meant a lot to my kids that I like
to play it. Just the other day, my 9yo asked me, apropos of nothing, if she
could entertain the baby for a while so I could play Harvest Moon. :) I
asked if she wouldn't rather play it herself, and she said, "No, I'm really
rooting for you to get the Journey Rucksack first!"
There are free farming games on Facebook that have a lot of similarity to
the farming aspects of Harvest Moon�Farm Town and Farmville are two we've
played.
Lissa in San Diego
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I bought Harvest Moon for the Wii last spring because I had read things you
>
> -=-My kids spent hours online researching recipes and other things for
> Harvest
> Moon.-=-
>
> I didn't know there was Harvest Moon for the Wii. That has been,
> overall, one of the biggest things in Holly's life. She goes six
> months without playing it sometimes, but she has played it on several
> systems.
> .
>
>
>
wrote, Sandra, about how much Holly enjoyed that game. I hadn't heard of it
before that. We *all* love it�including me. We too go in waves of playing it
intensely (sometimes just one or two of us; sometimes the crowd) and then it
will sit for a while. My 10-at-the-time daughter printed out a whole binder
full of information about the game�what presents to give which characters
for facilitating courtships; how to make various recipes; how to get the
wild animals to become your pets, etc. I could probably fill another binder
with the contents of the discussions we've had as a result of playing that
game, everything from mapmaking (something else the kids did, made maps of
the island) to marriage customs to farming. Oh!! I forgot, too, the intense
math calculating I see the kids doing as they compare profit margins on
crops. They don't think of it as "comparing profit margins," but that's what
they're doing�if strawberries cost X amount and mature in Y days but corn
costs X amount and matures in N days, what's the most profitable crop? And
some crops you harvest only once, but others continue to produce throughout
the growing season.
I really enjoy the game myself and it has meant a lot to my kids that I like
to play it. Just the other day, my 9yo asked me, apropos of nothing, if she
could entertain the baby for a while so I could play Harvest Moon. :) I
asked if she wouldn't rather play it herself, and she said, "No, I'm really
rooting for you to get the Journey Rucksack first!"
There are free farming games on Facebook that have a lot of similarity to
the farming aspects of Harvest Moon�Farm Town and Farmville are two we've
played.
Lissa in San Diego
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John and Amanda Slater
There are online Lego patterns. Might have a little text, but even
without it's still maps and translating image to action.
*****
We were just turned onto this website from someone at the Lego company. http://http://www.brickfactory.info/index.html It has a lot of instructions not offered on the lego website. http://http://us.service.lego.com/en-US/BuildingInstructions/default.aspx
There are lots of opportunities to read and identify words on either.
Amanda
Eli 8 (9 tomorrow), Samuel 7
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
without it's still maps and translating image to action.
*****
We were just turned onto this website from someone at the Lego company. http://http://www.brickfactory.info/index.html It has a lot of instructions not offered on the lego website. http://http://us.service.lego.com/en-US/BuildingInstructions/default.aspx
There are lots of opportunities to read and identify words on either.
Amanda
Eli 8 (9 tomorrow), Samuel 7
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BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
There are two online games that look a lot like legos.
http://www.roblox.com/
and Blockland.
Roblox is free and he can build his own games or play others games.
We found it too because my son loved legos
I can say my son learned to read because he wanted to much to communicate with others
on Roblox.
Here are videos about it you can show to your son:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDVAjvNeGA8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwl_1n_purY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niaeRL59SM4&feature=related
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.roblox.com/
and Blockland.
Roblox is free and he can build his own games or play others games.
We found it too because my son loved legos
I can say my son learned to read because he wanted to much to communicate with others
on Roblox.
Here are videos about it you can show to your son:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDVAjvNeGA8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwl_1n_purY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niaeRL59SM4&feature=related
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
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Jenny Cyphers
***I would LOVE any idea on appropriate kids online games or other games we can use on the comp or WII; he's been playing with a few but we need new ideas.***
The word "appropriate" throws me a bit. What do you mean by that? Appropriate in what way? If he likes legos, there are tons of lego games, even Rock Band has a lego version. My kids have always seemed to stumble upon/find games they enjoy, online and off. Some, they hear about from friends and others, they really just stumble upon.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The word "appropriate" throws me a bit. What do you mean by that? Appropriate in what way? If he likes legos, there are tons of lego games, even Rock Band has a lego version. My kids have always seemed to stumble upon/find games they enjoy, online and off. Some, they hear about from friends and others, they really just stumble upon.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Karl loves the Batman Legos game and also likes the Raiders of the Lost Ark
Indiana Jones Legos game.
~Katherine
Indiana Jones Legos game.
~Katherine
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
> ***I would LOVE any idea on appropriate kids online games or other games we
> can use on the comp or WII; he's been playing with a few but we need new
> ideas.***
>
> The word "appropriate" throws me a bit. What do you mean by that?
> Appropriate in what way? If he likes legos, there are tons of lego games,
> even Rock Band has a lego version. My kids have always seemed to stumble
> upon/find games they enjoy, online and off. Some, they hear about from
> friends and others, they really just stumble upon.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***I do
think sometimes he has trouble with receptive listening but not overly.
I too have worked with kids having all ranges of delays so am i
desensitized if i think his not catching everything i say is a problem
or am i overly critical when i think he should????***
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "listening". A lot of parents accuse their kids of not listening, when the kids heard just fine, but don't like what the parents are saying, so choose to ignore it. If you've at any time been a nagger sort of mom, who expects her kid to "do" what he's being asked to do or told to do, rather than being able to choose not to, then your child could very well be ignoring you when you talk. If you talk too much about too many things, past the point of the child's interest, then your child may be tuning you out, just like the kids in the Peanuts cartoons... "waah waah waah, wa wa wa"
I've seen it happen the other way around too, if a kid isn't listened to, really really listened to, then they learn that skill too, of "kind of" listening, but not really listening.
And some kids very innocently get completely absorbed in whatever they are doing and tune out their surroundings, sweet mom voices included.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
think sometimes he has trouble with receptive listening but not overly.
I too have worked with kids having all ranges of delays so am i
desensitized if i think his not catching everything i say is a problem
or am i overly critical when i think he should????***
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "listening". A lot of parents accuse their kids of not listening, when the kids heard just fine, but don't like what the parents are saying, so choose to ignore it. If you've at any time been a nagger sort of mom, who expects her kid to "do" what he's being asked to do or told to do, rather than being able to choose not to, then your child could very well be ignoring you when you talk. If you talk too much about too many things, past the point of the child's interest, then your child may be tuning you out, just like the kids in the Peanuts cartoons... "waah waah waah, wa wa wa"
I've seen it happen the other way around too, if a kid isn't listened to, really really listened to, then they learn that skill too, of "kind of" listening, but not really listening.
And some kids very innocently get completely absorbed in whatever they are doing and tune out their surroundings, sweet mom voices included.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LauraM
Thanks Lisa! I will use these ideas:-)
--- In [email protected], Melissa Wiley <thebonnyglen@...> wrote:
>
> I would LOVE any idea on appropriate kids online games or other games we can
> use on the comp or WII; he's been playing with a few but we need new ideas.
>
>
>
>
> Here are some my kids enjoy:
>
> online (and free):
> Neopets
> Poptropica
> Runescape
>
> Wii:
>
> Mario Kart
> Spectrobes
> Harvest Moon
> Super Mario Galaxy
> Legend of Zelda
> Wii Fit
> Pajama Sam
>
> For some of these games, he might need you to play with him to help with
> parts with more text.
>
> Super Mario Galaxy is one of my kids' favorite games, and a second player
> can help by collecting star bits while the main player is solving the
> puzzles.
>
> Spectrobes has some books coming out that continue the story world of the
> game.
>
> My kids spent hours online researching recipes and other things for Harvest
> Moon.
>
> I'm sure others will have lots of suggestions too!
>
> Lissa in San Diego
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
LauraM
Yes, we do. He sits for long periods of times just inspecting the catalogs and goes online looking for old legos and pieces that he wants.
I realize all that involves some reading and for the most part i've not worried about it, however i beleive the reality check of the schoool district "around the corner, looking over my shoulder" with the due process brought new waves of concern. I really would love to think he's in his process and getting it in his own time.
~Laura
I realize all that involves some reading and for the most part i've not worried about it, however i beleive the reality check of the schoool district "around the corner, looking over my shoulder" with the due process brought new waves of concern. I really would love to think he's in his process and getting it in his own time.
~Laura
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-he has recently taken to looking up lego books at the library and
> that is a big step. -=-
>
> Do you get the Lego magazine and catalogs?
>
> There are online Lego patterns. Might have a little text, but even
> without it's still maps and translating image to action.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
LauraM
Awesome. i did some searching since i couldnt get the links to work and came up with this: http://www.techbricks.nl/LEGO-instructions/LEGO-building-instructions-technic/
and: http://www.brickfactory.info/
and: http://www.brickfactory.info/
--- In [email protected], John and Amanda Slater <fourslaterz@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> There are online Lego patterns. Might have a little text, but even
> without it's still maps and translating image to action.
>
>
> *****
> We were just turned onto this website from someone at the Lego company. http://http://www.brickfactory.info/index.html It has a lot of instructions not offered on the lego website. http://http://us.service.lego.com/en-US/BuildingInstructions/default.aspx
>
> There are lots of opportunities to read and identify words on either.
>
> Amanda
> Eli 8 (9 tomorrow), Samuel 7
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>