attack and parry, for your amusement
Sandra Dodd
I've not shared the e-mail address from which this came. It didn't
show up on a web search, so the person isn't writing in public, or
maybe changes e-mails for different such forays. It's not uncommon
for me to get an e-mail telling to change my mind and my website
because someone doesn't agree with me about something, but this one
seemed particularly dramatic and I thought some people here might be
entertained, or enlightened, or just have some thoughts they hadn't
thought before.
My response is below the =============line. I don't think it's anyone
on this list. (If it is, suck it up and stop sending crazy mail.)
Subject: TV
Date: March 21, 2010 12:22:49 PM MDT
To: Sandra@...
Hi,
I don't know anything about you other than what you have written about
television and school on your website. But I have to say I am shocked
by how angry you sound at people who think that the majority of
programming on television is rude, crude, sexist and anti-family. I
know plenty of people who have a blasé attitude about television, but
I've never seen anyone so viscously pro-tv before. Do you watch
television? Have you channel surfed at all hours of the day? I have
spent a lot of time watching television the last two years, while on
bed rest, and I've watched all hours of the day and night. I know
what is on tv. Let me ask you, would you find it offensive if I came
into your house and had sex in front of your children? Would you be
appalled if I went into your neighbors house and had sex in front of
their children? How would you feel if the neighbors kids came and
told your children about what they saw? Well that is what tv does and
that is how it works. Even if you don't let your kids watch it,
someone else's children will and will influence your children with
that information. I truly wish you will rethink your position.
Thanks for your time,
Sincerely,
Your Neighbor
PS- The sex analogy is just the tip of the iceburg. Sex, drugs,
sexism, racism, violence, no respect for parental authority and no
respect for humanity is what tv brings us.
================================
Well, you just came and ranted at me in my e-mail, while I never
contacted you directly.
No one in my family is that antagonistic.
I don't know where you saw anger on my site.
-=- I have spent a lot of time watching television the last two years,
while on bed rest-=-
Why don't you buy some books or magazines, or rent DVDs? No one is
forcing you to watch television.
-=-Let me ask you, would you find it offensive if I came into your
house and had sex in front of your children? Would you be appalled if
I went into your neighbors house and had sex in front of their
children? -=-
Are you insane?
I do feel a little bit like you came into my computer and took a crap
on my screen.
-= Even if you don't let your kids watch it, someone else's children
will and will influence your children with that information. I truly
wish you will rethink your position.-=-
"Rethinking my position" won't change anything, if you're correct that
other people's children will come and have all the ill effects of
television even if I were to have prevented mine from watching it.
I did let my children watch it, and they've grown up into sweet and
peaceful young adults who would never dream of addressing anyone as
you have me.
-=I don't know anything about you other than what you have written
about television and school on your website. -=-
Perhaps you should get to know more about a person before you attack
her so rudely and directly. I have written very little about school
anywhere, and most of what is on my site about television was not
written by me.
Sandra Dodd
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
show up on a web search, so the person isn't writing in public, or
maybe changes e-mails for different such forays. It's not uncommon
for me to get an e-mail telling to change my mind and my website
because someone doesn't agree with me about something, but this one
seemed particularly dramatic and I thought some people here might be
entertained, or enlightened, or just have some thoughts they hadn't
thought before.
My response is below the =============line. I don't think it's anyone
on this list. (If it is, suck it up and stop sending crazy mail.)
Subject: TV
Date: March 21, 2010 12:22:49 PM MDT
To: Sandra@...
Hi,
I don't know anything about you other than what you have written about
television and school on your website. But I have to say I am shocked
by how angry you sound at people who think that the majority of
programming on television is rude, crude, sexist and anti-family. I
know plenty of people who have a blasé attitude about television, but
I've never seen anyone so viscously pro-tv before. Do you watch
television? Have you channel surfed at all hours of the day? I have
spent a lot of time watching television the last two years, while on
bed rest, and I've watched all hours of the day and night. I know
what is on tv. Let me ask you, would you find it offensive if I came
into your house and had sex in front of your children? Would you be
appalled if I went into your neighbors house and had sex in front of
their children? How would you feel if the neighbors kids came and
told your children about what they saw? Well that is what tv does and
that is how it works. Even if you don't let your kids watch it,
someone else's children will and will influence your children with
that information. I truly wish you will rethink your position.
Thanks for your time,
Sincerely,
Your Neighbor
PS- The sex analogy is just the tip of the iceburg. Sex, drugs,
sexism, racism, violence, no respect for parental authority and no
respect for humanity is what tv brings us.
================================
Well, you just came and ranted at me in my e-mail, while I never
contacted you directly.
No one in my family is that antagonistic.
I don't know where you saw anger on my site.
-=- I have spent a lot of time watching television the last two years,
while on bed rest-=-
Why don't you buy some books or magazines, or rent DVDs? No one is
forcing you to watch television.
-=-Let me ask you, would you find it offensive if I came into your
house and had sex in front of your children? Would you be appalled if
I went into your neighbors house and had sex in front of their
children? -=-
Are you insane?
I do feel a little bit like you came into my computer and took a crap
on my screen.
-= Even if you don't let your kids watch it, someone else's children
will and will influence your children with that information. I truly
wish you will rethink your position.-=-
"Rethinking my position" won't change anything, if you're correct that
other people's children will come and have all the ill effects of
television even if I were to have prevented mine from watching it.
I did let my children watch it, and they've grown up into sweet and
peaceful young adults who would never dream of addressing anyone as
you have me.
-=I don't know anything about you other than what you have written
about television and school on your website. -=-
Perhaps you should get to know more about a person before you attack
her so rudely and directly. I have written very little about school
anywhere, and most of what is on my site about television was not
written by me.
Sandra Dodd
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
"Do you watch
television? Have you channel surfed at all hours of the day? I have
spent a lot of time watching television the last two years, while on
bed rest, and I've
watched all hours of the day and night. I know
what is on tv. Let me ask you, would you find it offensive if I came
into your house and had sex in front of your children?"
Can't she turn the dang TV off if she does not want to watch sex on TV?
Is someone forcing her to watch stuff she does not like?
People are truly weird.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
television? Have you channel surfed at all hours of the day? I have
spent a lot of time watching television the last two years, while on
bed rest, and I've
watched all hours of the day and night. I know
what is on tv. Let me ask you, would you find it offensive if I came
into your house and had sex in front of your children?"
Can't she turn the dang TV off if she does not want to watch sex on TV?
Is someone forcing her to watch stuff she does not like?
People are truly weird.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Can't she turn the dang TV off if she does not want to watch sex on
TV?
Is someone forcing her to watch stuff she does not like?-=-
Well maybe I should've asked whether her (I had assumed it to be a
"he" from the tone, but I could be wrong) parents let her watch TV all
she wanted all hours of the day and night. If no, then... Oh right.
It was undoubtedly no. And the result? Hostility and funky thinking.
<G>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TV?
Is someone forcing her to watch stuff she does not like?-=-
Well maybe I should've asked whether her (I had assumed it to be a
"he" from the tone, but I could be wrong) parents let her watch TV all
she wanted all hours of the day and night. If no, then... Oh right.
It was undoubtedly no. And the result? Hostility and funky thinking.
<G>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***PS- The sex analogy is just the tip of the iceburg. Sex, drugs,
sexism, racism, violence, no respect for parental authority and no
respect for humanity is what tv brings us.***
The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling!
That's what those kind of comments make me think! There is nothing so overwhelmingly depressing in all the world than seeing the world through fear and crap. I don't watch sex, drugs, sexism, racism, violence, and disrespect on tv. I watch fascinating things, like forensic science, humor, romance, history, mystery, and the wonderful world of human nature, of humans being humans doing human things.
I suspect that this person watches too many news programs and not enough of the good stuff on tv! If that person has a teenager in school, I'd bet money that their kid talks about sex, drugs, and has experienced violence, racism, and disrespect of adults and humanity in general.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sexism, racism, violence, no respect for parental authority and no
respect for humanity is what tv brings us.***
The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling!
That's what those kind of comments make me think! There is nothing so overwhelmingly depressing in all the world than seeing the world through fear and crap. I don't watch sex, drugs, sexism, racism, violence, and disrespect on tv. I watch fascinating things, like forensic science, humor, romance, history, mystery, and the wonderful world of human nature, of humans being humans doing human things.
I suspect that this person watches too many news programs and not enough of the good stuff on tv! If that person has a teenager in school, I'd bet money that their kid talks about sex, drugs, and has experienced violence, racism, and disrespect of adults and humanity in general.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I got a response:
-----------------------
Hi,
I didn't think I was rude at all. Actually, I was just responding to
your opinions that you put out there for people to read. Maybe you
should not put your email address on your website if you don't want
people to respond.
And I appreciate your suggestion of finding some other form of
entertainment, however I really wasn't talking about how tv effects
adults, although I believe it does. I was talking about its influence
on children. And I am sure if I knew you and your grown children
better I could point out plenty of things they did as a result of
watching tv.
I am sorry your not willing to hear your veiwers opinions.
Thankyou,
Sincererly,
Your Neighbor
===========================
-----------------------
Hi,
I didn't think I was rude at all. Actually, I was just responding to
your opinions that you put out there for people to read. Maybe you
should not put your email address on your website if you don't want
people to respond.
And I appreciate your suggestion of finding some other form of
entertainment, however I really wasn't talking about how tv effects
adults, although I believe it does. I was talking about its influence
on children. And I am sure if I knew you and your grown children
better I could point out plenty of things they did as a result of
watching tv.
I am sorry your not willing to hear your veiwers opinions.
Thankyou,
Sincererly,
Your Neighbor
===========================
Jenny Cyphers
***And I appreciate your suggestion of finding some other form of
entertainment, however I really wasn't talking about how tv effects
adults, although I believe it does. I was talking about its influence
on children. And I am sure if I knew you and your grown children
better I could point out plenty of things they did as a result of
watching tv.***
I honestly think most kids who have positive parents, thinking positively about the world, will get from tv, things that will most likely be positive, since the environment in which they are dwelling IS positive. My kids have been positively influenced by tv, just as they've been positively influenced by their parents.
If this person has kids and is saying "bad, wrong, dangerous" about things in the world in general, tv included, then kids will likely carry that kind of negative thinking around in their thoughts. The kids will not think positively about their parents and their idiotic thoughts, especially once they are old enough to suddenly realize that they have their own minds and thoughts.
***I am sorry your not willing to hear your veiwers opinions.***
OHHH I LOVE that one! Clearly, "hearing" is the same as agreeing and doing. I bet they do the same thing to their kids... "turn the tv off and clean up your room." .... no response, then "you're not listening, I told you to turn the tv off and clean your room." I'm pretty sure the kid heard and listened to that demand, but chose to ignore it and not agree like a mindless robot.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
entertainment, however I really wasn't talking about how tv effects
adults, although I believe it does. I was talking about its influence
on children. And I am sure if I knew you and your grown children
better I could point out plenty of things they did as a result of
watching tv.***
I honestly think most kids who have positive parents, thinking positively about the world, will get from tv, things that will most likely be positive, since the environment in which they are dwelling IS positive. My kids have been positively influenced by tv, just as they've been positively influenced by their parents.
If this person has kids and is saying "bad, wrong, dangerous" about things in the world in general, tv included, then kids will likely carry that kind of negative thinking around in their thoughts. The kids will not think positively about their parents and their idiotic thoughts, especially once they are old enough to suddenly realize that they have their own minds and thoughts.
***I am sorry your not willing to hear your veiwers opinions.***
OHHH I LOVE that one! Clearly, "hearing" is the same as agreeing and doing. I bet they do the same thing to their kids... "turn the tv off and clean up your room." .... no response, then "you're not listening, I told you to turn the tv off and clean your room." I'm pretty sure the kid heard and listened to that demand, but chose to ignore it and not agree like a mindless robot.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
<<<I know plenty of people who have a blasé attitude about television,
but I've never seen anyone so viscously pro-tv before.>>>
The words "blasé" and "visciously" are interpretations of the
behavior. And the way the whole thing is phrased is an admission that
anything pro-tv is out of the speaker's realm of experience. Just lose
those two words and you'll see that: "I know plenty of people who have
a(n) attitude about television, but I've never seen anyone so pro-tv
before."
Well, ok. There's a first time for everything!
Here's potentially contentious thought: "I know people who don't mind
guns, but I've never met anyone (in the WHOLE wide world of my past
experience) who was so pro-gun before!!"
It's not the tv. It's not the guns. Without people thinking up
inappropriate uses for tv and guns, there would be no going to
people's houses and doing private acts publicly. Some people just like
to hit targets and that's why they have guns. They don't kill anything
with them. It's not guns. It's not tv's. It's not sex (the way that
children get into this world, remember, so it's a good thing!) None of
those things are harmful for children to know about. It's the thinking
about them that can be harmful.
I suppose it's possible for all the tv's, guns, sex to vanish, and we
could decry the presence of some other thing that seems like it
shouldn't be in the same world as children.
~Katherine
but I've never seen anyone so viscously pro-tv before.>>>
The words "blasé" and "visciously" are interpretations of the
behavior. And the way the whole thing is phrased is an admission that
anything pro-tv is out of the speaker's realm of experience. Just lose
those two words and you'll see that: "I know plenty of people who have
a(n) attitude about television, but I've never seen anyone so pro-tv
before."
Well, ok. There's a first time for everything!
Here's potentially contentious thought: "I know people who don't mind
guns, but I've never met anyone (in the WHOLE wide world of my past
experience) who was so pro-gun before!!"
It's not the tv. It's not the guns. Without people thinking up
inappropriate uses for tv and guns, there would be no going to
people's houses and doing private acts publicly. Some people just like
to hit targets and that's why they have guns. They don't kill anything
with them. It's not guns. It's not tv's. It's not sex (the way that
children get into this world, remember, so it's a good thing!) None of
those things are harmful for children to know about. It's the thinking
about them that can be harmful.
I suppose it's possible for all the tv's, guns, sex to vanish, and we
could decry the presence of some other thing that seems like it
shouldn't be in the same world as children.
~Katherine
Sandra Dodd
-=-viscously pro-tv before.>>>
-=-The words "blasé" and "visciously"-=-
I thought it said "visciously" at first, too, but it's "viscous."
"Viscous" like "flowingly pro-tv"?
"Viscous" like "gummy and stickily pro-tv"?
Depends on the viscosity being attributed to me.
I'm neither visciously nor viscously anything.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-The words "blasé" and "visciously"-=-
I thought it said "visciously" at first, too, but it's "viscous."
"Viscous" like "flowingly pro-tv"?
"Viscous" like "gummy and stickily pro-tv"?
Depends on the viscosity being attributed to me.
I'm neither visciously nor viscously anything.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob Collier
> Do you watchI have 24 hours a day satellite TV with over 100 channels plus Foxtel IQ which allows me to record programs to watch at my convenience. I've channel surfed all hours of the day, and night. Like everybody else in my family, I'm free to watch whatever I choose whenever I choose. In the past week, I've watched with my son one episode of Mythbusters and an episode of NCIS; with my wife, one episode of The Restaurant (Raymond Blanc) and a movie called Martian Child; on my own, one episode of New Tricks (UK cop show) and an episode of Eggheads (UK quiz show). Oh and I watched half an episode of Torchwood to please my wife, who's a fan, and thought it was so daft I probably will never watch Torchwood again. That's it. In a whole week. Probably an average of less than an hour of TV a day.
> television? Have you channel surfed at all hours of the day? I have
> spent a lot of time watching television the last two years, while on
> bed rest, and I've watched all hours of the day and night. I know
> what is on tv.
It's true I do watch TV for hours on end during the MLB playoffs and World Series and no doubt will be glued to the screen for a lot of the upcoming soccer World Cup - but, really, watching whatever's on TV because that's what happens to be on at the time, that's sad.
Assumimg "pro-TVers" do the same is kind of sad too.
Bob
d.lewis
***"Viscous" like "gummy and stickily pro-tv"?***
Maybe he or she meant vicious, but that's still a really strange choice of
words.
If this person thought you "sounded angry" then vicious might have been the
word she really wanted, but I'm guessing she was after another word and
couldn't find it. Maybe vehemently? Still weird. "Unusually pro-tv"
might have been a better choice but isn't much to get worked up over, is it?
<g>
I can sympathize some as a person who has no natural or cultivated talent
for spelling.
"Viscously pro-tv" is much more amusing. "I love TV so much I'm positively
STICKY with excitement!" <g>
Deb Lewis
Maybe he or she meant vicious, but that's still a really strange choice of
words.
If this person thought you "sounded angry" then vicious might have been the
word she really wanted, but I'm guessing she was after another word and
couldn't find it. Maybe vehemently? Still weird. "Unusually pro-tv"
might have been a better choice but isn't much to get worked up over, is it?
<g>
I can sympathize some as a person who has no natural or cultivated talent
for spelling.
"Viscously pro-tv" is much more amusing. "I love TV so much I'm positively
STICKY with excitement!" <g>
Deb Lewis
Sandra Dodd
-=-"Viscously pro-tv" is much more amusing. "I love TV so much I'm
positively
STICKY with excitement!" <g>-=-
I'm more vacuously pro-tv. Maybe like agnostic of TV... I'm against
the anti-TV people, but I don't know that I'm religiously pro-TV. I
sure do like DVDs and the machines that run them, though!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
positively
STICKY with excitement!" <g>-=-
I'm more vacuously pro-tv. Maybe like agnostic of TV... I'm against
the anti-TV people, but I don't know that I'm religiously pro-TV. I
sure do like DVDs and the machines that run them, though!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
d.lewis
*** I could point out plenty of things they did as a result of
watching tv.***
Why so eager to find rotten things festering inside other people?
Dylan achieved the rank of brown belt in Karate *and* Tae Kwon Do ; Five
years of study and hard work and he got interested in martial arts from
watching old Japanese movies. He saw those movies on TV because, well,
they're old, and not shown in theaters (at least not around here) anymore.
He's learning Italian and he got interested in that from watching Italian TV
on the web and from watching Italian horror movies on TV. (same deal, not
shown in theaters around here.)
He got interested in digital music from music he first heard on Television
and
now owns three synthesizers and plays very well, has learned a bunch about
electronics.
He got interested in playing the organ from watching a movie on TV, "The
Abominable Dr. Phibes." <g>
He now plays the organ really well, no lessons, just plenty of good Phibes.
(I make myself sick)
As a direct result of watching TV he learned how to use an old 16mm camera
and to make stop motion films. He has a better camera today and is still
making videos and taking really beautiful photographs.
As a result of watching TV he's written several stories and screen plays.
I can't begin to count the number of books he's read because he first saw
the story on TV on some old Twilight Zone episode or saw a movie based on a
short story or novel. Authors like Richard Matheson, August Derleth, H.P.
Lovecraft, Henry James...
I have, a couple different times, tried to write all the things Dylan has
learned as a result of watching TV. I haven't been able to finish. There's
just too much.
Deb Lewis
watching tv.***
Why so eager to find rotten things festering inside other people?
Dylan achieved the rank of brown belt in Karate *and* Tae Kwon Do ; Five
years of study and hard work and he got interested in martial arts from
watching old Japanese movies. He saw those movies on TV because, well,
they're old, and not shown in theaters (at least not around here) anymore.
He's learning Italian and he got interested in that from watching Italian TV
on the web and from watching Italian horror movies on TV. (same deal, not
shown in theaters around here.)
He got interested in digital music from music he first heard on Television
and
now owns three synthesizers and plays very well, has learned a bunch about
electronics.
He got interested in playing the organ from watching a movie on TV, "The
Abominable Dr. Phibes." <g>
He now plays the organ really well, no lessons, just plenty of good Phibes.
(I make myself sick)
As a direct result of watching TV he learned how to use an old 16mm camera
and to make stop motion films. He has a better camera today and is still
making videos and taking really beautiful photographs.
As a result of watching TV he's written several stories and screen plays.
I can't begin to count the number of books he's read because he first saw
the story on TV on some old Twilight Zone episode or saw a movie based on a
short story or novel. Authors like Richard Matheson, August Derleth, H.P.
Lovecraft, Henry James...
I have, a couple different times, tried to write all the things Dylan has
learned as a result of watching TV. I haven't been able to finish. There's
just too much.
Deb Lewis
Marina DeLuca-Howard
My first reaction: How does trespassing and performing lewd acts as a
trespasser resemble depictions of sex? For one thing I'd be scared the
trespasser were going to rape me...or kill me or my kids. As an analogy the
prowler/sex addict scenario fails because even if the remote didn't work,
and you could walk/wheel your way to the set to change the channel somehow
you would have a choice. In the absence a working channel changer on the
set or faulty off switch off the set or change the channel then the option
is just unplugging the set or changing tv sets. If money is an issue
Freecyle or Craigslist or trash day may provide a working set.
My second reaction: Real acts of sex on television would only be there if
he/she made "personal" films or tuned into some sort of sex channel. But I
can't imagine any regulatory body allowing sex on television--the frontal
nudity is still contentious among tv censors:)
What does this person think of computers? Even with the best of filters
someone named Bambi or some guy named Troy(who claims to be well hung)
inevitably surprizes me with lewd pics or propositions. I delete them and
report them as spam. You have way more control over images on tv than on
computers, where my son's searches for the kinder chocolate egg sites often
ended up redirected to porn sites--leading to explanations.
I have noticed that to people who are anti-tv everyone is pro-tv. I think
like everything tv works for some and not for other people. My kids watch
television--we don't have porn stations where I live, though there is lots
stuff we find silly or unappealing we wouldn't stop others from watching.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trespasser resemble depictions of sex? For one thing I'd be scared the
trespasser were going to rape me...or kill me or my kids. As an analogy the
prowler/sex addict scenario fails because even if the remote didn't work,
and you could walk/wheel your way to the set to change the channel somehow
you would have a choice. In the absence a working channel changer on the
set or faulty off switch off the set or change the channel then the option
is just unplugging the set or changing tv sets. If money is an issue
Freecyle or Craigslist or trash day may provide a working set.
My second reaction: Real acts of sex on television would only be there if
he/she made "personal" films or tuned into some sort of sex channel. But I
can't imagine any regulatory body allowing sex on television--the frontal
nudity is still contentious among tv censors:)
What does this person think of computers? Even with the best of filters
someone named Bambi or some guy named Troy(who claims to be well hung)
inevitably surprizes me with lewd pics or propositions. I delete them and
report them as spam. You have way more control over images on tv than on
computers, where my son's searches for the kinder chocolate egg sites often
ended up redirected to porn sites--leading to explanations.
I have noticed that to people who are anti-tv everyone is pro-tv. I think
like everything tv works for some and not for other people. My kids watch
television--we don't have porn stations where I live, though there is lots
stuff we find silly or unappealing we wouldn't stop others from watching.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 3/21/2010 8:27 PM, d.lewis wrote:
-pam
> If this person thought you "sounded angry" then vicious might haveI think he/she meant "aggressively pro-tv." As opposed to just not caring.
> been the
> word she really wanted, but I'm guessing she was after another word and
> couldn't find it. Maybe vehemently? Still weird. "Unusually pro-tv"
> might have been a better choice but isn't much to get worked up over,
> is it?
> <g>
-pam
nutley1105
The original email reminds me of a forum I belonged to when I first started homeschooling. At least once a week someone would start a thread about the perils of TV, video games, or too much computer use. The responses would be filled with lots of dramatic enchancements: *gasp* and *wow* and *I have no words!*, dealing with such issues as "My mother-in-law wants the kids to play Wii!" and "I met an unschooler who lets her kids play video games 16 hours a day!"
At first I tried to summon the appropriate indignation to match the thread; then I began to find it amusing; then I finally left the board because I realized that the posters were spending so much time defining what homeschooling couldn't and shouldn't be, there was no space left to explore any possibilities.
Kris
At first I tried to summon the appropriate indignation to match the thread; then I began to find it amusing; then I finally left the board because I realized that the posters were spending so much time defining what homeschooling couldn't and shouldn't be, there was no space left to explore any possibilities.
Kris
k
Correction: For instance, Karl imitates all kinds of character voices which
he would *not* know what sounded like if he didn't spend time listening to
them.
~Katherine
he would *not* know what sounded like if he didn't spend time listening to
them.
~Katherine
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 9:08 AM, k <katherand@...> wrote:
> >>>I have, a couple different times, tried to write all the things Dylan
> has
> learned as a result of watching TV. I haven't been able to finish.
> There's
> just too much.<<<
>
> I have been using something called http://thebrain.com which I downloaded
> onto my computer to keep up with these kinds of things, Deb. And I can't
> possibly keep up either.
>
> For instance, Karl imitates all kinds of character voices which he would
> know what sounded like if he didn't spend time listening to them. We were
> just watching Fat Albert yesterday (who Karl calls Big Albert, which I like
> the sound of better) and of course the voice artist for that character is
> the very much younger Bill Cosby who appears right there on every episode.
> That's just *one* of the many connections Karl is making from what I've
> heard others describe grudgingly as "screen time." It's old tv that has
> since been pulled from the archives and converted for playing over the
> internet, this on hulu.com.
>
> ~Katherine
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Kris,
this is what I enjoy most about this list--it explores all possibilities. I
find no condemnation or judgement; but lots of analysis and discussion.
Marina
--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
this is what I enjoy most about this list--it explores all possibilities. I
find no condemnation or judgement; but lots of analysis and discussion.
Marina
--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
d.lewis
***I think he/she meant "aggressively pro-tv." ***
That's probably it. It's hard to picture Sandra rushing around, forcing TV
viewing on others though. "Watch it, or else. <g> I think any of her
comments that can be considered pro-TV have been in response to anti-TV
stuff.
I'm pro TV. I love it and I wish I was finding time to watch more of it!
I'm still fascinated and in awe of television technology. It's just so cool
that someone can be in a studio across the country or on the other side of
the world and I can turn on my TV and listen to what they have to say, see
the pictures they're sharing. I'm not afraid of hearing ideas I disagree
with and I don't feel guilty about being entertained.
But, ***I was talking about its influence on children.***
I have seen TV's influence Dylan and it's been really positive. He didn't
get interested in TV until he was around three, probably, and he's watched a
lot of TV over the years. I can't think of any unpleasant thing he's done
as a result of being influenced by TV. He's never beaten up other kids,
stolen anything, wrecked the car or knocked over a convenience store.
Doesn't lie, drink or smoke, doesn't take drugs, hasn't joined a gang. He
hasn't damaged other people's property, kicked a dog, lit a cat on fire.
Deb Lewis
That's probably it. It's hard to picture Sandra rushing around, forcing TV
viewing on others though. "Watch it, or else. <g> I think any of her
comments that can be considered pro-TV have been in response to anti-TV
stuff.
I'm pro TV. I love it and I wish I was finding time to watch more of it!
I'm still fascinated and in awe of television technology. It's just so cool
that someone can be in a studio across the country or on the other side of
the world and I can turn on my TV and listen to what they have to say, see
the pictures they're sharing. I'm not afraid of hearing ideas I disagree
with and I don't feel guilty about being entertained.
But, ***I was talking about its influence on children.***
I have seen TV's influence Dylan and it's been really positive. He didn't
get interested in TV until he was around three, probably, and he's watched a
lot of TV over the years. I can't think of any unpleasant thing he's done
as a result of being influenced by TV. He's never beaten up other kids,
stolen anything, wrecked the car or knocked over a convenience store.
Doesn't lie, drink or smoke, doesn't take drugs, hasn't joined a gang. He
hasn't damaged other people's property, kicked a dog, lit a cat on fire.
Deb Lewis
Marina DeLuca-Howard
I found my boys were uninterested in television until 31/2-4 years of age.
They didn't like to sit still, but prefered action and messy play. Plus,
they wanted to interact with real people, lol. At the time though other
moms wanted to help me find tv shows(teletubbies, Sesame Street) to
entertain the kids, so I could have time to myself, lol. My theory about
one group of the tv haters is they introduced tv to escape their kids
demands. Probably, took ages to get the kids to bond with the tv, but the
parents always want control of the duration and value of programs!
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
They didn't like to sit still, but prefered action and messy play. Plus,
they wanted to interact with real people, lol. At the time though other
moms wanted to help me find tv shows(teletubbies, Sesame Street) to
entertain the kids, so I could have time to myself, lol. My theory about
one group of the tv haters is they introduced tv to escape their kids
demands. Probably, took ages to get the kids to bond with the tv, but the
parents always want control of the duration and value of programs!
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Dylan achieved the rank of brown belt in Karate *and* Tae Kwon Do ;
Five
years of study and hard work and he got interested in martial arts from
watching old Japanese movies.-=-
Well, true of Kirby and karate. He wanted to learn karate because of
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which also brought him the learning
involved in waking up early to record it and cut the commercials out
as he went, so he could go back to bed. In a box, somewhere in this
house, are all the episodes of TMNT, recorded and labelled by a little
boy who eventually taught the children's program at his karate school.
I'll save your post in the happy evidence file, and someday someone
will write me another insulting letter about how furious I am. I'll
stand guard over that collection. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Five
years of study and hard work and he got interested in martial arts from
watching old Japanese movies.-=-
Well, true of Kirby and karate. He wanted to learn karate because of
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which also brought him the learning
involved in waking up early to record it and cut the commercials out
as he went, so he could go back to bed. In a box, somewhere in this
house, are all the episodes of TMNT, recorded and labelled by a little
boy who eventually taught the children's program at his karate school.
I'll save your post in the happy evidence file, and someday someone
will write me another insulting letter about how furious I am. I'll
stand guard over that collection. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I think he/she meant "aggressively pro-tv." As opposed to just not
caring.-=-
I guess I was wrecking the "not caring" curve, but I (WE, because most
of the stories there are by people on this list or its predecessor-
lists and forum)... I was talking about television, and audio-video
input in general, and about learning. The person who wrote to me was
talking about ME, and evil, and sex, and my children (in a little bit
of a creepy, threatening way, emotionally) and suggesting I didn't
know my children well enough to see the bad effects of TV, but if he/
she knew the family he/she could point out the wrongheadedness.
It seemed VERY aggressive to me, but the response came back that it
didn't seem rude.
But then I don't surf the TV day and night. Maybe the result of
someone doing that is that they build up negativity and unleash it on
someone who said what they were doing wasn't so bad.
It's all kind of twisty-contorted.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
caring.-=-
I guess I was wrecking the "not caring" curve, but I (WE, because most
of the stories there are by people on this list or its predecessor-
lists and forum)... I was talking about television, and audio-video
input in general, and about learning. The person who wrote to me was
talking about ME, and evil, and sex, and my children (in a little bit
of a creepy, threatening way, emotionally) and suggesting I didn't
know my children well enough to see the bad effects of TV, but if he/
she knew the family he/she could point out the wrongheadedness.
It seemed VERY aggressive to me, but the response came back that it
didn't seem rude.
But then I don't surf the TV day and night. Maybe the result of
someone doing that is that they build up negativity and unleash it on
someone who said what they were doing wasn't so bad.
It's all kind of twisty-contorted.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nutley1105
I tried the limitation/value approach with the TV years ago because I was finding it a major means of procrastination for myself - and I patted myself on the back about all of the good quality time my daughter would be spending doing other things if I limited TV altogether.
I did find that I stopped procrastinating somewhat and that I got more enjoyment from the shows I chose to watch...but my daughter wasn't watching that much TV to begin with, so keeping her from the few shows she did want to see was pretty pointless and kind of mean. It didn't last long.
Now that she's getting older, most of the TV we watch involves nighttime programming - a lot of it on TLC. We live within a short driving distance of the Cake Boss bakery and had the fortune of meeting several of the people on the show and learning more about how to make those kinds of cakes. It's also been interesting to watch the bakery change from a regular neighborhood place to a chaotic tourist attraction requiring barricades for the waiting customers on the weekends.
Another show that has made for very interesting discussions has been the new season of Celebrity Apprentice. My daughter's initial pull was Cyndi Lauper, so what started out as musical taste has branched into price points, leadership, competition, playing fair, winning, losing, and on and on.
Enriching, definitely - and from as objective a perspective as I can put myself, I'm failing to see anything detrimental.
Kris
I did find that I stopped procrastinating somewhat and that I got more enjoyment from the shows I chose to watch...but my daughter wasn't watching that much TV to begin with, so keeping her from the few shows she did want to see was pretty pointless and kind of mean. It didn't last long.
Now that she's getting older, most of the TV we watch involves nighttime programming - a lot of it on TLC. We live within a short driving distance of the Cake Boss bakery and had the fortune of meeting several of the people on the show and learning more about how to make those kinds of cakes. It's also been interesting to watch the bakery change from a regular neighborhood place to a chaotic tourist attraction requiring barricades for the waiting customers on the weekends.
Another show that has made for very interesting discussions has been the new season of Celebrity Apprentice. My daughter's initial pull was Cyndi Lauper, so what started out as musical taste has branched into price points, leadership, competition, playing fair, winning, losing, and on and on.
Enriching, definitely - and from as objective a perspective as I can put myself, I'm failing to see anything detrimental.
Kris
Sandra Dodd
-=- I can't think of any unpleasant thing he's done
as a result of being influenced by TV. He's never beaten up other kids,
stolen anything, wrecked the car or knocked over a convenience store.
Doesn't lie, drink or smoke, doesn't take drugs, hasn't joined a gang.
He
hasn't damaged other people's property, kicked a dog, lit a cat on
fire.-=
In every single case of any human having done any of those things
since television was invented, UNIVERSALLY the world would have been a
better place had that child been watching television at that moment
instead of damaging life and property.
Television would have saved MANY young people from the justice
system. It still could. Television can save all juvenile delinquents
if their parents will just MAKE THEM WATCH TELEVISION!!!
For those who stole, lied, drank, smoked, did opium, joined gangs,
kicked dogs before 1950.... wait. Are we sure any of those things
happened before television was invented? I don't see how, without the
influence of television, any person would get any bad ideas.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
as a result of being influenced by TV. He's never beaten up other kids,
stolen anything, wrecked the car or knocked over a convenience store.
Doesn't lie, drink or smoke, doesn't take drugs, hasn't joined a gang.
He
hasn't damaged other people's property, kicked a dog, lit a cat on
fire.-=
In every single case of any human having done any of those things
since television was invented, UNIVERSALLY the world would have been a
better place had that child been watching television at that moment
instead of damaging life and property.
Television would have saved MANY young people from the justice
system. It still could. Television can save all juvenile delinquents
if their parents will just MAKE THEM WATCH TELEVISION!!!
For those who stole, lied, drank, smoked, did opium, joined gangs,
kicked dogs before 1950.... wait. Are we sure any of those things
happened before television was invented? I don't see how, without the
influence of television, any person would get any bad ideas.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Clarify, please: -=-31/2-4 years of age-=-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyla Wolfenstein
i misread that at first too - i think it means 3.5 to 4
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] attack and parry, for your amusement
Clarify, please: -=-31/2-4 years of age-=-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I tried the limitation/value approach with the TV years ago because
I was finding it a major means of procrastination for myself --=-
Before we ever had kids, Keith and I used to get TV Guide and the
local PBS magazine so that we could plan in advance what we were going
to watch on TV. We didn't just turn it on and "surf." It wasn't "a
rule," it just made sense because we had a lot of hobbies and meetings
and singing practices we wanted to plan around, but VCRs weren't
available in homes yet, so if we missed something, it was missed.
But that developed into a "read first and then turn it on" practice
between the two of us. And when the kids came along and we did have a
VCR and some videos for them, and the ability to rent others, they
wouldn't just turn it on either. They would ask what was on, or ask
to watch a certain video, or I might recommend something. Kirby
learned to tell time because of shows he liked to watch.
It wasn't a big deal at all. Anytime someone wanted to watch
something the answer was going to be yes. We didn't leave it on for
background noise, though. We still don't.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was finding it a major means of procrastination for myself --=-
Before we ever had kids, Keith and I used to get TV Guide and the
local PBS magazine so that we could plan in advance what we were going
to watch on TV. We didn't just turn it on and "surf." It wasn't "a
rule," it just made sense because we had a lot of hobbies and meetings
and singing practices we wanted to plan around, but VCRs weren't
available in homes yet, so if we missed something, it was missed.
But that developed into a "read first and then turn it on" practice
between the two of us. And when the kids came along and we did have a
VCR and some videos for them, and the ability to rent others, they
wouldn't just turn it on either. They would ask what was on, or ask
to watch a certain video, or I might recommend something. Kirby
learned to tell time because of shows he liked to watch.
It wasn't a big deal at all. Anytime someone wanted to watch
something the answer was going to be yes. We didn't leave it on for
background noise, though. We still don't.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
d.lewis
***I don't see how, without the influence of television, any person would
get any bad ideas.***
The devil.
Dime novels.
Penny dreadfuls.
Dancing.
Houses of ill repute.
Dens of iniquity. (do wolves and bears have dens of iniquity? I bet badgers
do...they hunker and watch tv.)
Deb Lewis
get any bad ideas.***
The devil.
Dime novels.
Penny dreadfuls.
Dancing.
Houses of ill repute.
Dens of iniquity. (do wolves and bears have dens of iniquity? I bet badgers
do...they hunker and watch tv.)
Deb Lewis
Joanna
> Dens of iniquity. (do wolves and bears have dens of iniquity? I bet badgersAnd weasels too. I've always limited my kids exposure to weasels for this very reason.
> do...they hunker and watch tv.)
>
> Deb Lewis
>
Joanna
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Sandra asked: <<Clarify, please: -=-31/2-4 years of age-=>>
3.5 was what I meant. Before that he didn't care to watch for too long. I
watched with him so I was disappointed on occasion;)
but if he turned off the tv or took out Lego I turned off the tv.
But Rowan was really fascinated by the converter before the tv and Crispin
loves dvds. Other mothers who admired Rowan's math skills were
disappointed to learn it was changing channels with a remote, which really
inspired him to master numbers. They controlled the remote. We just got a
family package. I think I wrote about that before on this list...
Marina
3.5 was what I meant. Before that he didn't care to watch for too long. I
watched with him so I was disappointed on occasion;)
but if he turned off the tv or took out Lego I turned off the tv.
But Rowan was really fascinated by the converter before the tv and Crispin
loves dvds. Other mothers who admired Rowan's math skills were
disappointed to learn it was changing channels with a remote, which really
inspired him to master numbers. They controlled the remote. We just got a
family package. I think I wrote about that before on this list...
Marina
On 22 March 2010 12:26, Lyla Wolfenstein <lylaw@...> wrote:
>
>
> i misread that at first too - i think it means 3.5 to 4
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sandra Dodd
> To: [email protected] <AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] attack and parry, for your amusement
>
> Clarify, please: -=-31/2-4 years of age-=-
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>but if he turned off the tv or took out Lego I turned off the tv.<<<One of our favorite things to do together is play with the Legos
and/or talking while (sorta) watching tv. Sometimes Karl pauses his
show in order to play with his toys or get something to eat or go
outside for some sun, pet the cats, check the mail (it's been raining
the last 2 days, so... we await the sun's shining).