Responding to desires that feel dangerous
annx33
I need some input on a issue with something my 17 year old son wants. He has been talking for a number of months about wanting a gun called an "AR".
We've looked at it online quite a bit, we've talked alot about it . . .
Since he is underage, this is something I would have to buy for him and license under my name for him to use. I am uncomforable about this weapon.
By way of a little background, both of my sons have had an interest in guns for a number of years. We took them to gun safety courses in the Boston area, they joined a junior gun club where they learned to shoot 22 rifles. They had bb guns as little boys, they have airsoft guns and paintball guns - all of which they really enjoy.
We spend quite a bit of time in the western U.S. where we have fmaily, a little cabin. Our families are hunters, the boys talk guns to their cousins and uncles, sometimes they get to shoot larger caliber guns with older cousins, etc. Our sons are clear they don't want to hunt, but really like target practice.
Two years ago we purchased and licensed under our names, each of them a 22. I felt nervous about these guns, too, at the time. Now they don't seem like a big deal at all. They've enjoyed these guns off and on. Now, Dan is pressing for a larger caliber rifle which I think is fine. It's just that he wants an assault rifle.
Maybe it's the name I'm uncomfortable with . . . it's also called an armorlite rifle. It looks like a military issue weapon - not a hunting or sporting or target practice gun.
Admittedly, with each step in this process I've had to breathe alot. I grew up with guns, my dad and brother were hunters and avid gun collectors. I'm thankful for that in regards to my son's interests. On the other hand, to purchase an object that can maim, and kill in the blink of an eye feels counterintuitive to me as their mother. Honestly, this particular weapon and his desire for it scares me.
It's also quite expensive - yet, I keep asking myself if he wanted a horse or dirtbike for the same money, I would figure out a way to get it. Both of those desires are potentially dangerous as well.
I don't know - I'm stumped and struggling for how to respond to him.
And I guess as I write there's a little corner of concern I have about his temper. This gun seems to bring up a wall in me, a boundary . .
and reveal a little lack of trust for his ability to handle this kind of gun. Part of me just wants to say, honey, I can't do this, you'll need to wait til you're 21 to buy this for yourself. But, then, as an unschooling parent/partner I want to support all his interests . . .
I'd appreciate hearing how people have responded to their teens around similiar issues.
Thank you - Ann
(Dan, 17, Joe, 17, Nora, 15)
We've looked at it online quite a bit, we've talked alot about it . . .
Since he is underage, this is something I would have to buy for him and license under my name for him to use. I am uncomforable about this weapon.
By way of a little background, both of my sons have had an interest in guns for a number of years. We took them to gun safety courses in the Boston area, they joined a junior gun club where they learned to shoot 22 rifles. They had bb guns as little boys, they have airsoft guns and paintball guns - all of which they really enjoy.
We spend quite a bit of time in the western U.S. where we have fmaily, a little cabin. Our families are hunters, the boys talk guns to their cousins and uncles, sometimes they get to shoot larger caliber guns with older cousins, etc. Our sons are clear they don't want to hunt, but really like target practice.
Two years ago we purchased and licensed under our names, each of them a 22. I felt nervous about these guns, too, at the time. Now they don't seem like a big deal at all. They've enjoyed these guns off and on. Now, Dan is pressing for a larger caliber rifle which I think is fine. It's just that he wants an assault rifle.
Maybe it's the name I'm uncomfortable with . . . it's also called an armorlite rifle. It looks like a military issue weapon - not a hunting or sporting or target practice gun.
Admittedly, with each step in this process I've had to breathe alot. I grew up with guns, my dad and brother were hunters and avid gun collectors. I'm thankful for that in regards to my son's interests. On the other hand, to purchase an object that can maim, and kill in the blink of an eye feels counterintuitive to me as their mother. Honestly, this particular weapon and his desire for it scares me.
It's also quite expensive - yet, I keep asking myself if he wanted a horse or dirtbike for the same money, I would figure out a way to get it. Both of those desires are potentially dangerous as well.
I don't know - I'm stumped and struggling for how to respond to him.
And I guess as I write there's a little corner of concern I have about his temper. This gun seems to bring up a wall in me, a boundary . .
and reveal a little lack of trust for his ability to handle this kind of gun. Part of me just wants to say, honey, I can't do this, you'll need to wait til you're 21 to buy this for yourself. But, then, as an unschooling parent/partner I want to support all his interests . . .
I'd appreciate hearing how people have responded to their teens around similiar issues.
Thank you - Ann
(Dan, 17, Joe, 17, Nora, 15)
Sandra Dodd
-=-Part of me just wants to say, honey, I can't do this, you'll need
to wait til you're 21 to buy this for yourself. But, then, as an
unschooling parent/partner I want to support all his interests . . . -=-
I wouldn't do it.
The gun would be in your name, and you're uncomfortable. That's
enough reason to say no.
Holly wanted a tattoo and Keith really doesn't like tattoos at all, on
anybody, least of all on his only daughter. So although I could have
signed for her myself, I really like Keith and didn't want to "go
against him" that way. I didn't mind the tattoo, but I understand
Keith's aversion.
Holly waited until she was 18, and after a month or so got a tattoo.
Because we've said yes to her countless times, and gone out of our
comfort zone so often, when it came to the uncrossable edge, she was
totally calm about it, and also understanding. A friend of hers spoke
to her about it, and expected her to be indignant and resistent, but
she said she loved her dad, and he's furnishing her car and her
gasoline and her place to live, and she was okay to wait.
I figure many mainstream, controlling parents would expect that their
children would "naturally" feel that sense of indebted obligation
toward a parent, but Holly actually expressed it and it didn't come
from us *telling* her to respect our authority.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to wait til you're 21 to buy this for yourself. But, then, as an
unschooling parent/partner I want to support all his interests . . . -=-
I wouldn't do it.
The gun would be in your name, and you're uncomfortable. That's
enough reason to say no.
Holly wanted a tattoo and Keith really doesn't like tattoos at all, on
anybody, least of all on his only daughter. So although I could have
signed for her myself, I really like Keith and didn't want to "go
against him" that way. I didn't mind the tattoo, but I understand
Keith's aversion.
Holly waited until she was 18, and after a month or so got a tattoo.
Because we've said yes to her countless times, and gone out of our
comfort zone so often, when it came to the uncrossable edge, she was
totally calm about it, and also understanding. A friend of hers spoke
to her about it, and expected her to be indignant and resistent, but
she said she loved her dad, and he's furnishing her car and her
gasoline and her place to live, and she was okay to wait.
I figure many mainstream, controlling parents would expect that their
children would "naturally" feel that sense of indebted obligation
toward a parent, but Holly actually expressed it and it didn't come
from us *telling* her to respect our authority.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
d.lewis
I don't know from guns. Is it illegal only for him to own the gun or is it
illegal for him to be in possession of and or firing the gun? If it's
illegal for him to be in possession of the gun, what's the penalty to him
and to you as the gun owner?
I'd consider those things. I have been willing to break rules - I told my
son to use the debit card if he needed it and our bank had an age
requirement for debit card use. He's been buying stuff on eBay for years
and using paypal to pay, etc. and they have age of use policies. I've
taken him driving without a learners permit or license. But I would not be
willing to risk serious penalty or jail for either of us.
Is there a place he can go to get familiar with that particular rifle, to
get a chance to fire it and disassemble and reassemble it? Classes, maybe?
Clubs? Would that be enough hands on gun stuff to get him through the
next few years of waiting to be a legal gun owner? Does he have a relative
who owns one, who would be willing to spend time with him, letting him fire
it, etc?
Deb Lewis
illegal for him to be in possession of and or firing the gun? If it's
illegal for him to be in possession of the gun, what's the penalty to him
and to you as the gun owner?
I'd consider those things. I have been willing to break rules - I told my
son to use the debit card if he needed it and our bank had an age
requirement for debit card use. He's been buying stuff on eBay for years
and using paypal to pay, etc. and they have age of use policies. I've
taken him driving without a learners permit or license. But I would not be
willing to risk serious penalty or jail for either of us.
Is there a place he can go to get familiar with that particular rifle, to
get a chance to fire it and disassemble and reassemble it? Classes, maybe?
Clubs? Would that be enough hands on gun stuff to get him through the
next few years of waiting to be a legal gun owner? Does he have a relative
who owns one, who would be willing to spend time with him, letting him fire
it, etc?
Deb Lewis
Marina DeLuca-Howard
Some laws are arbitrary...school laws, age laws around Internet purchases,
credit cards/bank cards...but if your child spent all his money on a bank
card on collectible figures nobody would die and the only victim of your
child using your credit card is you. Many parents trust their child to
purchase with discretion and the child pays the bill. Those laws are
paternalistic...in a sense the state is playing 'mom'. They probably
violate some sort of discrimination based on age law. I remember as a teen
bristling at the paternalistic way the bank treated me, though I had three
thousand dollars. I was too young to move my own cash around. It was money
that came from part time work.
My parents bought a car that I drove, though I was the 'secondary driver;
yet, in effect it was my car. Insurance was cheaper that way. The car
though allowed me freedom and my parents considered a young woman in a car
to be safer than one on public transit. We lived in the suburbs and trains
into the city were infrequent...yada yada.
Guns seem different. Their main function is to kill. Assault riffles are
especially designed to kill people. I would probably not want a bomb, or
tank around either.
If some thing goes wrong what would it be? Could one of your son's friends
use it dangerously?
If you feel worried you need to assess why. Jail time involved if you are
caught in this lie?
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
credit cards/bank cards...but if your child spent all his money on a bank
card on collectible figures nobody would die and the only victim of your
child using your credit card is you. Many parents trust their child to
purchase with discretion and the child pays the bill. Those laws are
paternalistic...in a sense the state is playing 'mom'. They probably
violate some sort of discrimination based on age law. I remember as a teen
bristling at the paternalistic way the bank treated me, though I had three
thousand dollars. I was too young to move my own cash around. It was money
that came from part time work.
My parents bought a car that I drove, though I was the 'secondary driver;
yet, in effect it was my car. Insurance was cheaper that way. The car
though allowed me freedom and my parents considered a young woman in a car
to be safer than one on public transit. We lived in the suburbs and trains
into the city were infrequent...yada yada.
Guns seem different. Their main function is to kill. Assault riffles are
especially designed to kill people. I would probably not want a bomb, or
tank around either.
If some thing goes wrong what would it be? Could one of your son's friends
use it dangerously?
If you feel worried you need to assess why. Jail time involved if you are
caught in this lie?
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- Those laws are paternalistic...in a sense the state is playing
'mom'. They probably
violate some sort of discrimination based on age law. -=-
The laws about age and kids and money have to do with contract law,
and kids can't enter into contracts. Bank accounts and credit
accounts are contracts.
-=-Guns seem different. Their main function is to kill. Assault
riffles are
especially designed to kill people. I would probably not want a bomb, or
tank around either.-=-
I agree with that. Even if it were legal for the kid to have such a
weapon, it's your house and you could say "not in my house; I'm too
uncomfortable with this."
Before I had children, I had friends who had a teen who visited the
neighbor's house, and came home, and acted normal, but over at the
neighbor's house he was being shown a rifle, and he shot the other kid
with it, and came home. Afraid to get in trouble I guess, he didn't
call 911. The kid died, or might've been dead before he left. Kind
of horrible all the way around, and the parents got divorced (she was
the step-mom and they had another younger boy together), and I don't
know what happened to the older boy besides lots of therapy and people
being afraid to be around him because the incident hadn't seemed to
have upset him.
So what I'm saying, however unhelpful it might be is that this
question of Marina's is a good one:
-=-If some thing goes wrong what would it be? Could one of your son's
friends
use it dangerously?-=-
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
'mom'. They probably
violate some sort of discrimination based on age law. -=-
The laws about age and kids and money have to do with contract law,
and kids can't enter into contracts. Bank accounts and credit
accounts are contracts.
-=-Guns seem different. Their main function is to kill. Assault
riffles are
especially designed to kill people. I would probably not want a bomb, or
tank around either.-=-
I agree with that. Even if it were legal for the kid to have such a
weapon, it's your house and you could say "not in my house; I'm too
uncomfortable with this."
Before I had children, I had friends who had a teen who visited the
neighbor's house, and came home, and acted normal, but over at the
neighbor's house he was being shown a rifle, and he shot the other kid
with it, and came home. Afraid to get in trouble I guess, he didn't
call 911. The kid died, or might've been dead before he left. Kind
of horrible all the way around, and the parents got divorced (she was
the step-mom and they had another younger boy together), and I don't
know what happened to the older boy besides lots of therapy and people
being afraid to be around him because the incident hadn't seemed to
have upset him.
So what I'm saying, however unhelpful it might be is that this
question of Marina's is a good one:
-=-If some thing goes wrong what would it be? Could one of your son's
friends
use it dangerously?-=-
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
emiLy Quick
Ann,
I agree with the others that I wouldn't do it, but not really because it's a gun. The doubts you have about your son are more telling. You mention his temper, and HIS ability to handle such a powerful weapon. If you are not 100% confident in him, you shouldn't do it.
I am not sure if I would license a gun in my name for my kids to use. I don't know what the age limits are, honestly. My six year old shoots our .22. She has for a few years. I didn't grow up around guns, and my husband didn't either really, but we have a few that are from his family and we live out in the country now so a few times a year, he goes out and shoots targets and she'll go out too. I'm trying to imagine what I'd do if she wanted her own gun later on... and I can't. :) But I do hear you clearly saying you have doubts about your son, and that right there is enough to say, no, sorry, I can't.
-emiLy
I agree with the others that I wouldn't do it, but not really because it's a gun. The doubts you have about your son are more telling. You mention his temper, and HIS ability to handle such a powerful weapon. If you are not 100% confident in him, you shouldn't do it.
I am not sure if I would license a gun in my name for my kids to use. I don't know what the age limits are, honestly. My six year old shoots our .22. She has for a few years. I didn't grow up around guns, and my husband didn't either really, but we have a few that are from his family and we live out in the country now so a few times a year, he goes out and shoots targets and she'll go out too. I'm trying to imagine what I'd do if she wanted her own gun later on... and I can't. :) But I do hear you clearly saying you have doubts about your son, and that right there is enough to say, no, sorry, I can't.
-emiLy
On Mar 16, 2010, at 9:33 AM, annx33 wrote:
> I need some input on a issue with something my 17 year old son wants. He has been talking for a number of months about wanting a gun called an "AR".
>
> We've looked at it online quite a bit, we've talked alot about it . . .
> Since he is underage, this is something I would have to buy for him and license under my name for him to use. I am uncomforable about this weapon.
>
> By way of a little background, both of my sons have had an interest in guns for a number of years. We took them to gun safety courses in the Boston area, they joined a junior gun club where they learned to shoot 22 rifles. They had bb guns as little boys, they have airsoft guns and paintball guns - all of which they really enjoy.
>
> We spend quite a bit of time in the western U.S. where we have fmaily, a little cabin. Our families are hunters, the boys talk guns to their cousins and uncles, sometimes they get to shoot larger caliber guns with older cousins, etc. Our sons are clear they don't want to hunt, but really like target practice.
>
> Two years ago we purchased and licensed under our names, each of them a 22. I felt nervous about these guns, too, at the time. Now they don't seem like a big deal at all. They've enjoyed these guns off and on. Now, Dan is pressing for a larger caliber rifle which I think is fine. It's just that he wants an assault rifle.
>
> Maybe it's the name I'm uncomfortable with . . . it's also called an armorlite rifle. It looks like a military issue weapon - not a hunting or sporting or target practice gun.
>
> Admittedly, with each step in this process I've had to breathe alot. I grew up with guns, my dad and brother were hunters and avid gun collectors. I'm thankful for that in regards to my son's interests. On the other hand, to purchase an object that can maim, and kill in the blink of an eye feels counterintuitive to me as their mother. Honestly, this particular weapon and his desire for it scares me.
>
> It's also quite expensive - yet, I keep asking myself if he wanted a horse or dirtbike for the same money, I would figure out a way to get it. Both of those desires are potentially dangerous as well.
>
> I don't know - I'm stumped and struggling for how to respond to him.
> And I guess as I write there's a little corner of concern I have about his temper. This gun seems to bring up a wall in me, a boundary . .
> and reveal a little lack of trust for his ability to handle this kind of gun. Part of me just wants to say, honey, I can't do this, you'll need to wait til you're 21 to buy this for yourself. But, then, as an unschooling parent/partner I want to support all his interests . . .
>
> I'd appreciate hearing how people have responded to their teens around similiar issues.
>
> Thank you - Ann
> (Dan, 17, Joe, 17, Nora, 15)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Marina DeLuca-Howard
The comparison between the gun and the dirtbike doesn't make sense to me.
An assault riffle is made to kill people, but a dirtbike is made for
riding. No matter whether the young person in that equation is competitive
racing, or adventurous the risk is less likely to result in tragedy. A bike
is built to race, to perform tricks even but its raison d'etre is not to
kill.
The horse analogy doesn't seem logical to me either. I think you could
compare riding to football or hockey. Yes, sports enthusiasts are all at
risk...tennis elbow:) A horse can crush you, true. But in the normal course
of riding you aren't at risk of serious injury. I used to ride horses and
have fallen before without injury.
Does your son belong to a club where he might be able to experiment with
different types of guns? My dad belongs to a gun club and hunts with his
buddies. He owns hunting rifles. He enjoys target shooting, but none of my
son's are interested in real guns so grandpa has no opportunity to pass on
this hobby.
Could you satisfy the gun interest differently--special shooting times with
relatives? Has your son used this particular gun with other family members?
This could be bonding experience between him and others (older responsible
gun owners); taking the pressure off you to buy him his* own* assault gun
and might teach him more about mature behavior or a healthy respect for
weapons.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
An assault riffle is made to kill people, but a dirtbike is made for
riding. No matter whether the young person in that equation is competitive
racing, or adventurous the risk is less likely to result in tragedy. A bike
is built to race, to perform tricks even but its raison d'etre is not to
kill.
The horse analogy doesn't seem logical to me either. I think you could
compare riding to football or hockey. Yes, sports enthusiasts are all at
risk...tennis elbow:) A horse can crush you, true. But in the normal course
of riding you aren't at risk of serious injury. I used to ride horses and
have fallen before without injury.
Does your son belong to a club where he might be able to experiment with
different types of guns? My dad belongs to a gun club and hunts with his
buddies. He owns hunting rifles. He enjoys target shooting, but none of my
son's are interested in real guns so grandpa has no opportunity to pass on
this hobby.
Could you satisfy the gun interest differently--special shooting times with
relatives? Has your son used this particular gun with other family members?
This could be bonding experience between him and others (older responsible
gun owners); taking the pressure off you to buy him his* own* assault gun
and might teach him more about mature behavior or a healthy respect for
weapons.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
Have you heard of "airsoft"? The guns are 1 to scale and can shoot in "Full" automatic mode. They are made to shoot small plastic BB's (.20 - .28 mm) is the average. It is a great group sport followed by all ages. Zac and I have played at several different venues but the coolest was the $3million faux middle eastern town on the FT Riley Army base in Kansas.We have played in fields as well as a decommissioned NIKE Missile Base. It is best to find a team in your area so that the kids have some guidance. You can Google "airsoft" with your location and you should come up with a team in your area. For example our team is the Kansas City Airsoft Club, otherwise known as KNACK. Pease feel free to visit our boards to get a feel for what we do. Another team in our area is known as Dan's Toy Shop, and you can google them as well.
We find that this feeds a healthy dose of interest in many types of weapons, builds camaraderie as well as teaching gun safety.
Ed Wendell
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We find that this feeds a healthy dose of interest in many types of weapons, builds camaraderie as well as teaching gun safety.
Ed Wendell
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]