advice for someone considering unschooling a high schooler?
Sandra Dodd
I have a question I don't have an answer for:
"any tips on a good page or two to send someone *considering*
unschooling her high schooler? as in - what IS unschooling, but
targeted towards that age?"
I've talked to people on the phone. I've answered questions in
discussions. If there's something gathered up, I'm not thinking of
it. Is there anything out on the web already?
If not, can we brainstorm here and I'll build a page of it and send it
out?
Thanks,
Sandra
"any tips on a good page or two to send someone *considering*
unschooling her high schooler? as in - what IS unschooling, but
targeted towards that age?"
I've talked to people on the phone. I've answered questions in
discussions. If there's something gathered up, I'm not thinking of
it. Is there anything out on the web already?
If not, can we brainstorm here and I'll build a page of it and send it
out?
Thanks,
Sandra
NCMama
I really love this blog post, written by an unschooler who went to a public high school for his freshman year:
http://fivefreebirds.blogspot.com/2008/07/unschool-v-school.html
It doesn't sound like exactly what you're looking for - and might cause someone entrenched in school to get defensive - but I like his perspective.
Caren
http://fivefreebirds.blogspot.com/2008/07/unschool-v-school.html
It doesn't sound like exactly what you're looking for - and might cause someone entrenched in school to get defensive - but I like his perspective.
Caren
Sandra Dodd
i found this, and I have one thing by e-mail. Please send more if any
of you have anything to link to or that you'ld like to write here that
I could collect.
Sandra
of you have anything to link to or that you'ld like to write here that
I could collect.
Sandra
Robin Bentley
Would folks on the list who have taken their teens out of school (I'm
think of Lyla, in particular) want to write about their experience for
such a page? That might be a start.
Robin B.
think of Lyla, in particular) want to write about their experience for
such a page? That might be a start.
Robin B.
On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> I have a question I don't have an answer for:
>
> "any tips on a good page or two to send someone *considering*
> unschooling her high schooler? as in - what IS unschooling, but
> targeted towards that age?"
>
> I've talked to people on the phone. I've answered questions in
> discussions. If there's something gathered up, I'm not thinking of
> it. Is there anything out on the web already?
>
> If not, can we brainstorm here and I'll build a page of it and send it
> out?
>
Lyla Wolfenstein
lol robin it was my question that prompted sandra to ask for these resources! it's n ot for me - it's for someone who's assking for my support/resources. and my daughter was barely 13, and i think he's older and "failing" high school, so a different situation altogether. i would be happy to write stuff up for sandra's page, but i look forward to hearing other testimony for this family/future families.
lyla
lyla
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Bentley
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] advice for someone considering unschooling a high schooler?
Would folks on the list who have taken their teens out of school (I'm
think of Lyla, in particular) want to write about their experience for
such a page? That might be a start.
Robin B.
On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
> lol robin it was my question that prompted sandra to ask for theseHa! That *is* funny.
> resources! it's n ot for me - it's for someone who's assking for my
> support/resources. and my daughter was barely 13, and i think he's
> older and "failing" high school, so a different situation
> altogether. i would be happy to write stuff up for sandra's page,
> but i look forward to hearing other testimony for this family/future
> families.
>
> lyla
In addition to whatever help we can come up with from the group (and
personal accounts can be especially meaningful), maybe the mom could
read "TheTeenage Liberation Handbook" to understand that any
alternative isn't a train to nowhere. I don't know if she's worried
about his future (college, job), but it can feel really scary if she
can't see that there are other paths to take.
Robin B.
Lyla Wolfenstein
yes, i am waiting to hear back from her with more details...i will advise that and also "college without high school"
In addition to whatever help we can come up with from the group (and
personal accounts can be especially meaningful), maybe the mom could
read "TheTeenage Liberation Handbook" to understand that any
alternative isn't a train to nowhere. I don't know if she's worried
about his future (college, job), but it can feel really scary if she
can't see that there are other paths to take.
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In addition to whatever help we can come up with from the group (and
personal accounts can be especially meaningful), maybe the mom could
read "TheTeenage Liberation Handbook" to understand that any
alternative isn't a train to nowhere. I don't know if she's worried
about his future (college, job), but it can feel really scary if she
can't see that there are other paths to take.
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
I think Sandra's deschooling page would be really helpful for her, too.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Robin B.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Robin B.
On Mar 11, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Lyla Wolfenstein wrote:
> yes, i am waiting to hear back from her with more details...i will
> advise that and also "college without high school"
>
>
Kristi
I recently discovered a (young adult)Canadian unschooler's blog: http://yes-i-can-write.blogspot.com/
And she has some tags to her teen-related posts. I'm sure she has many other gems embedded, but I did search for this:
http://yes-i-can-write.blogspot.com/2009/09/list-of-blogs-by-teenage-and-grown.html
And she has some tags to her teen-related posts. I'm sure she has many other gems embedded, but I did search for this:
http://yes-i-can-write.blogspot.com/2009/09/list-of-blogs-by-teenage-and-grown.html
Jenny Cyphers
***and i think he's older and "failing" high school, so a different situation altogether***
Oh, yes that is different altogether! Here, where we live it "feels" like there aren't any other options for such a kid as the one that fails. There seem to be plenty of options for kids that aren't failing, but are bored, for kids who have "other problems" like pregnancies or drugs or have been in trouble with the law, etc. For an average kid that is failing high school, well, those are the ones who fall through the "cracks".
Schools eat kids up like that. I'm watching it happen right now to someone we know. I'm going to assume that this kid is one who thinks about everything, but doesn't see what is so important about what he's doing in school. Perhaps he's not a hoop jumper. Some kids are way more inclined to just do what they have to do, while other kids really just don't care to.
If a kid like that has other interests, that is one step in the direction of letting school go. Some interests that humans pursue are just not fostered in public high school. Schools routinely fail really creative types by boxing them in and keeping them there. There is a lot of lost human potential through that. I was one of those. I did well in school though, with the promise that I'd eventually get to do what I wanted to do. All those years of pushing aside the ONE thing I wanted, to do all those other things that going to school forced me to do, did so much damage, that only now at almost 40 yrs old am I recovering. It's a bit like deschooling, but it's more like realizing that I don't "have to" do all those other things first anymore, and then KNOWing that I'm choosing to prioritize differently for my own reasons.
While schools talk all about fostering a child's potential and preparing them for the world, for some kids that is just talk because the reality is that some kids aren't doing well, and aren't having their interests fostered. Those kids are lost potential, collateral damage, skewing the test scores that help schools get funding. As long as there aren't too many of those kids, the schools can continue doing what they are doing. Those kids won't matter in the long run. They aren't being prepared for the world, they are FAILing. The child isn't a failure, the school is failing the child. John Holt was really good at seeing that and writing about it.
Here's an interesting example of failing students and how they are dealt with in a local school: Statistics show that 17% of incoming freshman will fail at least one required course for graduation in the first year of high school. That's a really high number for a school to contend with. The principal of the school decided to implement a program called "homework in the now" to bring that statistic down a couple of percentages. Note, they still expect to have some collateral damage. So, all kids that fail a class, get to do this program. Here's how that program works, they are forced to skip lunches to go to a study room to do homework. It violates their own school policy for lunches. Guess what the kids figured out? If they didn't show up on the first required day, they didn't get their name marked down on the attendance sheet, and then weren't looked for on subsequent lunch periods. So kids stopped going to those first "homework in the now"
sessions, and continued failing classes.
Even if all the kids would've shown up and continued to go to the sessions, the school knows that more than half of those kids will still fail their class. So what do those kids get to do for an entire year? Miss lunches, miss probably the only part of school that makes going feel ok. None of that is for the kids, it's about keeping funding. Schools must statistically succeed in order to get funding. They do all sorts of things to get those numbers up including putting pressure on parents. Some of that pressure is making sure that everyone feels like high school is absolutely and completely necessary and that one must comply with everything a school throws at them or else they won't get THE HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA so they can go on to be successful in life.
A school with a kid that's already failing, or being failed by the system, isn't going to care much about whether or not that kid gets his diploma, as long as, statistically they have their graduate numbers up. They are allowed a few percentages of kids that don't graduate. I really believe it would be far far better for a kid to NOT have a high school diploma, than to have that same kid fail school. Failing out of school looks bad, being pulled out to homeschool, no matter how that looks, will look way better for that kid's future.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Oh, yes that is different altogether! Here, where we live it "feels" like there aren't any other options for such a kid as the one that fails. There seem to be plenty of options for kids that aren't failing, but are bored, for kids who have "other problems" like pregnancies or drugs or have been in trouble with the law, etc. For an average kid that is failing high school, well, those are the ones who fall through the "cracks".
Schools eat kids up like that. I'm watching it happen right now to someone we know. I'm going to assume that this kid is one who thinks about everything, but doesn't see what is so important about what he's doing in school. Perhaps he's not a hoop jumper. Some kids are way more inclined to just do what they have to do, while other kids really just don't care to.
If a kid like that has other interests, that is one step in the direction of letting school go. Some interests that humans pursue are just not fostered in public high school. Schools routinely fail really creative types by boxing them in and keeping them there. There is a lot of lost human potential through that. I was one of those. I did well in school though, with the promise that I'd eventually get to do what I wanted to do. All those years of pushing aside the ONE thing I wanted, to do all those other things that going to school forced me to do, did so much damage, that only now at almost 40 yrs old am I recovering. It's a bit like deschooling, but it's more like realizing that I don't "have to" do all those other things first anymore, and then KNOWing that I'm choosing to prioritize differently for my own reasons.
While schools talk all about fostering a child's potential and preparing them for the world, for some kids that is just talk because the reality is that some kids aren't doing well, and aren't having their interests fostered. Those kids are lost potential, collateral damage, skewing the test scores that help schools get funding. As long as there aren't too many of those kids, the schools can continue doing what they are doing. Those kids won't matter in the long run. They aren't being prepared for the world, they are FAILing. The child isn't a failure, the school is failing the child. John Holt was really good at seeing that and writing about it.
Here's an interesting example of failing students and how they are dealt with in a local school: Statistics show that 17% of incoming freshman will fail at least one required course for graduation in the first year of high school. That's a really high number for a school to contend with. The principal of the school decided to implement a program called "homework in the now" to bring that statistic down a couple of percentages. Note, they still expect to have some collateral damage. So, all kids that fail a class, get to do this program. Here's how that program works, they are forced to skip lunches to go to a study room to do homework. It violates their own school policy for lunches. Guess what the kids figured out? If they didn't show up on the first required day, they didn't get their name marked down on the attendance sheet, and then weren't looked for on subsequent lunch periods. So kids stopped going to those first "homework in the now"
sessions, and continued failing classes.
Even if all the kids would've shown up and continued to go to the sessions, the school knows that more than half of those kids will still fail their class. So what do those kids get to do for an entire year? Miss lunches, miss probably the only part of school that makes going feel ok. None of that is for the kids, it's about keeping funding. Schools must statistically succeed in order to get funding. They do all sorts of things to get those numbers up including putting pressure on parents. Some of that pressure is making sure that everyone feels like high school is absolutely and completely necessary and that one must comply with everything a school throws at them or else they won't get THE HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA so they can go on to be successful in life.
A school with a kid that's already failing, or being failed by the system, isn't going to care much about whether or not that kid gets his diploma, as long as, statistically they have their graduate numbers up. They are allowed a few percentages of kids that don't graduate. I really believe it would be far far better for a kid to NOT have a high school diploma, than to have that same kid fail school. Failing out of school looks bad, being pulled out to homeschool, no matter how that looks, will look way better for that kid's future.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
NCMama
I don't remember how old Eli Gerzon was when he left school, but I know he did attend at least one year of high school. Here's a link to one article he's written about choosing to leave school, and he's got others on his site:
http://www.eligerzon.com/article.php?id=29
Eli is also very open to sharing his experiences with new unschoolers, his contact info is on his site as well.
Any chance the person can get to SC... tomorrow? ;) The Autodidact Symposium is going on this weekend, and its focus is older unschoolers. Actually, the site for that symposium has contact info for folks who can help, people who have offered to be mentors, etc.
http://theautodidactsymposium.com/home.htm
*IF* they can get to SC, we've had to change our plans to go. (wahh) I have a hotel room reserved, and could change the reservation to their name - but that would need to happen soon, I need to cancel the room by this evening.
Caren
http://www.eligerzon.com/article.php?id=29
Eli is also very open to sharing his experiences with new unschoolers, his contact info is on his site as well.
Any chance the person can get to SC... tomorrow? ;) The Autodidact Symposium is going on this weekend, and its focus is older unschoolers. Actually, the site for that symposium has contact info for folks who can help, people who have offered to be mentors, etc.
http://theautodidactsymposium.com/home.htm
*IF* they can get to SC, we've had to change our plans to go. (wahh) I have a hotel room reserved, and could change the reservation to their name - but that would need to happen soon, I need to cancel the room by this evening.
Caren