proposed intro letter
Sandra Dodd
I haven't had a welcome letter, because for the first few years people
only came to this list from others, or from my page, so I figured they
had some idea what they were getting into.
Does this have enough without having too much?
=======================
This list is special, and a little different.
AlwaysLearning is huge and busy. Please don't post an introduction by
itself. When you come to the point that you feel confident in
contributing to the exchange, you can add an introduction in there if
you want to. Good ideas are better for the list than introductions are.
Unless they're mixed in with a great question, a thoughtful response
or a story, do not post "thanks" "me too!" "LOL" (or any variations
thereon)
CAREFULLY proofread your posts. Quote only what's necessary for yours
to make sense, and mark other people's words physically with **stars**
or -=-hyphens-=- or something, because indentations and colors and
pointy-brackets disappear.
NEW TO UNSCHOOLING? A note from Beth Danicke:
I understand that unschooling can be scary and unfamiliar for those
who are new to it. I well remember joining the Unschooling Discussion
list 10+ years ago and feeling like I had stumbled into some alternate
universe. Everything seemed upside down because of the way I'd been
raised and schooled and what I'd been taught to believe. Deschooling
takes time.
Step back and read and absorb and get familiar with this new thing and
WHY it works as opposed to jumping in and challenging ideas and
butting heads with people who already KNOW why it works and are
willing to share the secret with you.
It can be frustrating to have people come in with negative attitudes
(and
many of them seem to think that we've never heard their particular
"why this
won't work" ideas before) telling us we are wrong and that they know a
better way… (by Beth Danicke, one of the list members)
Read here before posting on the list:
http://sandradodd.com/lists/alwayslearning (especially the yellow box)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/ (Intro and purpose)
That might take you half an hour, but it's a good investment. Those
who post inappropriately take hundreds of man-hours from the
collective lives of the 2000+ members of the list.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
only came to this list from others, or from my page, so I figured they
had some idea what they were getting into.
Does this have enough without having too much?
=======================
This list is special, and a little different.
AlwaysLearning is huge and busy. Please don't post an introduction by
itself. When you come to the point that you feel confident in
contributing to the exchange, you can add an introduction in there if
you want to. Good ideas are better for the list than introductions are.
Unless they're mixed in with a great question, a thoughtful response
or a story, do not post "thanks" "me too!" "LOL" (or any variations
thereon)
CAREFULLY proofread your posts. Quote only what's necessary for yours
to make sense, and mark other people's words physically with **stars**
or -=-hyphens-=- or something, because indentations and colors and
pointy-brackets disappear.
NEW TO UNSCHOOLING? A note from Beth Danicke:
I understand that unschooling can be scary and unfamiliar for those
who are new to it. I well remember joining the Unschooling Discussion
list 10+ years ago and feeling like I had stumbled into some alternate
universe. Everything seemed upside down because of the way I'd been
raised and schooled and what I'd been taught to believe. Deschooling
takes time.
Step back and read and absorb and get familiar with this new thing and
WHY it works as opposed to jumping in and challenging ideas and
butting heads with people who already KNOW why it works and are
willing to share the secret with you.
It can be frustrating to have people come in with negative attitudes
(and
many of them seem to think that we've never heard their particular
"why this
won't work" ideas before) telling us we are wrong and that they know a
better way… (by Beth Danicke, one of the list members)
Read here before posting on the list:
http://sandradodd.com/lists/alwayslearning (especially the yellow box)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/ (Intro and purpose)
That might take you half an hour, but it's a good investment. Those
who post inappropriately take hundreds of man-hours from the
collective lives of the 2000+ members of the list.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jill Parmer
On Mar 11, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
because I think new people coming on to the list will most likely
skim that letter.
I like the posting criteria from this post: (March 29, 2009 List
Business)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/43544
I save it in a place that I can get to it easily, and every time I
draft a response here (which many, many stay in my draft folder, like
Robin), I go over it and check my draft against it. (Admittedly,
I've fudged a little, and have regretted hitting the send button
every time that niggling feeling of not fulfilling the criteria.)
~Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Does this have enough without having too much?That's probably has enough. And I don't want to say add more to it,
because I think new people coming on to the list will most likely
skim that letter.
I like the posting criteria from this post: (March 29, 2009 List
Business)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/message/43544
I save it in a place that I can get to it easily, and every time I
draft a response here (which many, many stay in my draft folder, like
Robin), I go over it and check my draft against it. (Admittedly,
I've fudged a little, and have regretted hitting the send button
every time that niggling feeling of not fulfilling the criteria.)
~Jill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Jill! I forgot about writing that.
I think I'll put that as a monthly reminder for everyone, and when it
comes out to the list I can put up the stats of the past month to go
with it, maybe. (If I don't, I hope someone else will).
And the other (when it's polished) can go to new members as they join.
Thanks!!
I think I'll put that as a monthly reminder for everyone, and when it
comes out to the list I can put up the stats of the past month to go
with it, maybe. (If I don't, I hope someone else will).
And the other (when it's polished) can go to new members as they join.
Thanks!!
Sandra Dodd
Second draft, with ideas from the list and e-mail. I've incorporated
the Joyce-explanation, and mentioned that the list is huge and people
don't have to post.
This list is special, and a little different. It's a huge discussion
list, and not a little support group. We'll discuss the ideas
themselves that people bring. Joyce Fetteroll, one of the moderators,
described it this way:
The list is about ideas, not about people.
Think of ideas like balls and the list like a ball court. If someone
tosses an idea worth discussing into the court it's going to get
batted about. At that point what's going on is no longer about the
person who tossed the idea in. It's about the idea and how well and
cleanly it's being tossed about. (Unless the tosser keeps jumping in
and grabbing the idea ball saying "Mine!") --Joyce
No one is required to post anything. If you DO want to write,
consider all this:
AlwaysLearning is huge and busy. Please don't post an introduction by
itself. When you come to the point that you feel confident in
contributing to the exchange, you can add an introduction in there if
you want to. Good ideas are better for the list than introductions are.
Unless they're mixed in with a great question, a thoughtful response
or a story, do not post "thanks" "me too!" "LOL" (or any variations
thereon).
CAREFULLY proofread your posts. Quote only what's necessary for yours
to make sense, and mark other people's words physically with **stars**
or -=-hyphens-=- or something, because indentations and colors and
pointy-brackets disappear.
NEW TO UNSCHOOLING? A note from Beth Danicke:
I understand that unschooling can be scary and unfamiliar for those
who are new to it. I well remember joining the Unschooling Discussion
list 10+ years ago and feeling like I had stumbled into some alternate
universe. Everything seemed upside down because of the way I'd been
raised and schooled and what I'd been taught to believe. Deschooling
takes time.
Step back and read and absorb and get familiar with this new thing and
WHY it works as opposed to jumping in and challenging ideas and
butting heads with people who already KNOW why it works and are
willing to share the secret with you.
It can be frustrating to have people come in with negative attitudes
(and
many of them seem to think that we've never heard their particular
"why this
won't work" ideas before) telling us we are wrong and that they know a
better way… (by Beth Danicke, one of the list members)
Read here before posting on the list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
http://sandradodd.com/lists/alwayslearning
That might take you half an hour, but it's a good investment. Those
who post inappropriately take hundreds of man-hours from the
collective lives of the 2000+ members of the list.
the Joyce-explanation, and mentioned that the list is huge and people
don't have to post.
This list is special, and a little different. It's a huge discussion
list, and not a little support group. We'll discuss the ideas
themselves that people bring. Joyce Fetteroll, one of the moderators,
described it this way:
The list is about ideas, not about people.
Think of ideas like balls and the list like a ball court. If someone
tosses an idea worth discussing into the court it's going to get
batted about. At that point what's going on is no longer about the
person who tossed the idea in. It's about the idea and how well and
cleanly it's being tossed about. (Unless the tosser keeps jumping in
and grabbing the idea ball saying "Mine!") --Joyce
No one is required to post anything. If you DO want to write,
consider all this:
AlwaysLearning is huge and busy. Please don't post an introduction by
itself. When you come to the point that you feel confident in
contributing to the exchange, you can add an introduction in there if
you want to. Good ideas are better for the list than introductions are.
Unless they're mixed in with a great question, a thoughtful response
or a story, do not post "thanks" "me too!" "LOL" (or any variations
thereon).
CAREFULLY proofread your posts. Quote only what's necessary for yours
to make sense, and mark other people's words physically with **stars**
or -=-hyphens-=- or something, because indentations and colors and
pointy-brackets disappear.
NEW TO UNSCHOOLING? A note from Beth Danicke:
I understand that unschooling can be scary and unfamiliar for those
who are new to it. I well remember joining the Unschooling Discussion
list 10+ years ago and feeling like I had stumbled into some alternate
universe. Everything seemed upside down because of the way I'd been
raised and schooled and what I'd been taught to believe. Deschooling
takes time.
Step back and read and absorb and get familiar with this new thing and
WHY it works as opposed to jumping in and challenging ideas and
butting heads with people who already KNOW why it works and are
willing to share the secret with you.
It can be frustrating to have people come in with negative attitudes
(and
many of them seem to think that we've never heard their particular
"why this
won't work" ideas before) telling us we are wrong and that they know a
better way… (by Beth Danicke, one of the list members)
Read here before posting on the list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
http://sandradodd.com/lists/alwayslearning
That might take you half an hour, but it's a good investment. Those
who post inappropriately take hundreds of man-hours from the
collective lives of the 2000+ members of the list.
Marina DeLuca-Howard
I think the ball analogy is apt. When a poster confuses rejection of their
idea with "dislike" for themselves--they get mired in "evaluation"(like in
school). They think they are getting an "f", rather than seeing a chance to
grow or acquire new ideas!
People don't know the poster personally, but many posters seem to be anxious
to please and make friends. This can happen on the list or even or
facebook, but the list isn't a social network.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
idea with "dislike" for themselves--they get mired in "evaluation"(like in
school). They think they are getting an "f", rather than seeing a chance to
grow or acquire new ideas!
People don't know the poster personally, but many posters seem to be anxious
to please and make friends. This can happen on the list or even or
facebook, but the list isn't a social network.
Marina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
That seems like a nice concise intro! I liked what Beth wrote, it mirrors my experience when I first found the unschooling dot com boards! Although, there were areas there where you could go and butt heads with folks if you felt like it! I generally spent more time elsewhere there.
If it keeps people from writing long mean diatribes to others on the side, then I'm all for it! Thanks for being a buffer Sandra, and for taking so many blows and blocking them so gracefully!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If it keeps people from writing long mean diatribes to others on the side, then I'm all for it! Thanks for being a buffer Sandra, and for taking so many blows and blocking them so gracefully!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-People don't know the poster personally, but many posters seem to
be anxious
to please and make friends. This can happen on the list or even or
facebook, but the list isn't a social network.-=-
That's rough, but I can't fix it. We could pretend to be friends, but
that sounds like a horrible waste of time to me, to have a whole bunch
of imaginary friends. On the other hand, I have REAL friends and good
friends I've gained from this online unschooling stuff, but we become
friends because of mutual regard for having helped people, or from
having kids who are friends, or meeting in person.
Once I said "I'm not here to make friends," and someone OH so
unhelpfully said "GOOD, because you're not making any."
Right. That's what I just said. I'm here to discuss unschooling so
that those who want to learn it can.
There's a phrase I came up with years ago (embarrassing number of long
years ago) for a particular purpose in the SCA. There's a thing,
cousin of knighthood, called The Order of the Pelican. I was a member
(still am, but...) and there was a lot of pressure for us to take
students, proteges. I didn't want to. I wanted to be available to
just anyone who wanted to learn, rather than taking a student or three
and not being available generally. There was a year or two's worth of
discussion, but the oath part of the ceremony was changed as a
compromise, in our part of the SCA (Atenveldt and then Outlands) to
say that the person promised to help "all those with an earnest desire
to learn."
It didn't make them responsible to teach people who were just hanging
around. It prevented someone from teaching *only* his own students
and nobody else.
Maybe that is stuck in the back of my mind, that "earnest desire to
learn" concept, and so I'm willing to be really patient with people
who do seem to want to know, and pretty IMpatient with people who come
around with an arrogant, hostile or dishonest stance.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be anxious
to please and make friends. This can happen on the list or even or
facebook, but the list isn't a social network.-=-
That's rough, but I can't fix it. We could pretend to be friends, but
that sounds like a horrible waste of time to me, to have a whole bunch
of imaginary friends. On the other hand, I have REAL friends and good
friends I've gained from this online unschooling stuff, but we become
friends because of mutual regard for having helped people, or from
having kids who are friends, or meeting in person.
Once I said "I'm not here to make friends," and someone OH so
unhelpfully said "GOOD, because you're not making any."
Right. That's what I just said. I'm here to discuss unschooling so
that those who want to learn it can.
There's a phrase I came up with years ago (embarrassing number of long
years ago) for a particular purpose in the SCA. There's a thing,
cousin of knighthood, called The Order of the Pelican. I was a member
(still am, but...) and there was a lot of pressure for us to take
students, proteges. I didn't want to. I wanted to be available to
just anyone who wanted to learn, rather than taking a student or three
and not being available generally. There was a year or two's worth of
discussion, but the oath part of the ceremony was changed as a
compromise, in our part of the SCA (Atenveldt and then Outlands) to
say that the person promised to help "all those with an earnest desire
to learn."
It didn't make them responsible to teach people who were just hanging
around. It prevented someone from teaching *only* his own students
and nobody else.
Maybe that is stuck in the back of my mind, that "earnest desire to
learn" concept, and so I'm willing to be really patient with people
who do seem to want to know, and pretty IMpatient with people who come
around with an arrogant, hostile or dishonest stance.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 11, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
trips people up but the intent of the list.
And I think social network is a concept closer to what people are
looking for than support group. While ultimately people do seek
support (sometimes without realizing it), I think what the ones who
end up getting upset are initially looking for is connection. How about:
"Always Learning is not a social network but a list to discuss what
helps and hinders unschooling. The list exists to deepen
understanding of unschooling [or natural learning?]."
(Is it "always learning" as in throughout life or as in every waking
moment? Is it just about unschooling kids or about natural learning
in general?)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> It's a huge discussionI think huge and little are confusing since it's not the size that
> list, and not a little support group.
trips people up but the intent of the list.
And I think social network is a concept closer to what people are
looking for than support group. While ultimately people do seek
support (sometimes without realizing it), I think what the ones who
end up getting upset are initially looking for is connection. How about:
"Always Learning is not a social network but a list to discuss what
helps and hinders unschooling. The list exists to deepen
understanding of unschooling [or natural learning?]."
(Is it "always learning" as in throughout life or as in every waking
moment? Is it just about unschooling kids or about natural learning
in general?)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]