Re: "Is there any such thing as a "newcomer" question?
d.lewis
***Is there really such a thing as "newcomer" questions for anything in
life? ***
The first time I drove in Boston someone directed me to the rotary. "WTF is
a rotary," I asked. Newcomer question. I'd already been alive forty some
years.
Sometimes people come to unschooling email lists and say "I've been reading
and reading about unschooling and the philosophy resonates deeply with me."
(ok, cool so far...) "And I'm all for trusting my kid to learn what he
needs from living life." ( still cool...) "But all he wants to do is sit
and play video games, he's not interested in learning anything. How do I
get him to do some math?" And WTF is that? That's a "newcomer" question.
That's probably the hardest thing. When people come and say they don't know
much about unschooling and they have questions, everyone can understand
that. It's easy to be patient with people who are trying to understand.
Unschooling is hard to get and anyone already doing it knows that and can
relate. When people come, claiming knowledge and experience but revealing
through their writing that they don't *at all* understand, that's hard.
Those are the people who get defensive and angry. It is hard to be patient
with people who want to be admired and complimented more than they want to
learn about unschooling.
***Why such impatience? ***
Sandra is patient. She's been writing about unschooling for years,
answering the same questions again and again. If unschoolers decided to
strap on pistols Sandra probably wouldn't shoot anybody. Not even
newcomers. Whoever wrote that should thank their lucky stars Sandra is so
patient, because if somebody wrote that kind of thing to me, I'd be at their
door with a hatchet, demonstrating what impatience looks like.
*** Just not really open to dialogue?***
If ever there was a newcomer question, this is it.
Sandra was writing for HEM magazine when my seventeen (almost eighteen!)
year old was little. I think her email address was at the bottom of each
article. Maybe even her street address! She was writing at
unschooling.com when there was a busy message board. She's been writing and
answering questions on email lists since there have been email lists. She's
had this, her own list, for nine years. That's a lot of years of being
open to dialogue. None of that means she's obligated to give her time to
people who berate her.
Deb Lewis
life? ***
The first time I drove in Boston someone directed me to the rotary. "WTF is
a rotary," I asked. Newcomer question. I'd already been alive forty some
years.
Sometimes people come to unschooling email lists and say "I've been reading
and reading about unschooling and the philosophy resonates deeply with me."
(ok, cool so far...) "And I'm all for trusting my kid to learn what he
needs from living life." ( still cool...) "But all he wants to do is sit
and play video games, he's not interested in learning anything. How do I
get him to do some math?" And WTF is that? That's a "newcomer" question.
That's probably the hardest thing. When people come and say they don't know
much about unschooling and they have questions, everyone can understand
that. It's easy to be patient with people who are trying to understand.
Unschooling is hard to get and anyone already doing it knows that and can
relate. When people come, claiming knowledge and experience but revealing
through their writing that they don't *at all* understand, that's hard.
Those are the people who get defensive and angry. It is hard to be patient
with people who want to be admired and complimented more than they want to
learn about unschooling.
***Why such impatience? ***
Sandra is patient. She's been writing about unschooling for years,
answering the same questions again and again. If unschoolers decided to
strap on pistols Sandra probably wouldn't shoot anybody. Not even
newcomers. Whoever wrote that should thank their lucky stars Sandra is so
patient, because if somebody wrote that kind of thing to me, I'd be at their
door with a hatchet, demonstrating what impatience looks like.
*** Just not really open to dialogue?***
If ever there was a newcomer question, this is it.
Sandra was writing for HEM magazine when my seventeen (almost eighteen!)
year old was little. I think her email address was at the bottom of each
article. Maybe even her street address! She was writing at
unschooling.com when there was a busy message board. She's been writing and
answering questions on email lists since there have been email lists. She's
had this, her own list, for nine years. That's a lot of years of being
open to dialogue. None of that means she's obligated to give her time to
people who berate her.
Deb Lewis
Pam Sorooshian
On 3/10/2010 10:28 PM, d.lewis wrote:
especially when their education is about education, and they are heavily
invested in thinking it means they already know all about learning, when
what they really know about is schooling.
My own newcomer question (I'm sure there were many, but this one still
rings in my ears):
"So, you're telling me that if I just leave them alone they will,
eventually, pull their math books down off the shelf and do math on
their own?"
Newcomer on SO many levels.
That was 15 years ago.
I've been studying, reading, discussing, observing, writing, thinking,
analyzing, and living unschooling every since. Kind of like getting a
PhD and a decade of professional experience. <g>
-pam
> When people come, claiming knowledge and experience but revealingIt is especially hard when they've got all kinds of formal education,
> through their writing that they don't *at all* understand, that's hard.
especially when their education is about education, and they are heavily
invested in thinking it means they already know all about learning, when
what they really know about is schooling.
My own newcomer question (I'm sure there were many, but this one still
rings in my ears):
"So, you're telling me that if I just leave them alone they will,
eventually, pull their math books down off the shelf and do math on
their own?"
Newcomer on SO many levels.
That was 15 years ago.
I've been studying, reading, discussing, observing, writing, thinking,
analyzing, and living unschooling every since. Kind of like getting a
PhD and a decade of professional experience. <g>
-pam
Su Penn
On Mar 11, 2010, at 1:28 AM, d.lewis wrote:
Su
>It actually amazes me how patient some of the long-time folks are. I used to be very active on AlwaysUnschooled (and was even briefly a moderator there) and I eventually left partly because of life circumstances not leaving me the time, and partly because I just didn't have the patience for the sugar question or the TV question or the boys-playing-fighting-games question again. When I think about people who've been doing it for a decade or more--and the people on AlwaysUnschooled who are still there answering the sugar question and the TV questions and the whatever question again--I'm amazed and grateful to them.
> ***Why such impatience? ***
>
> Sandra is patient. She's been writing about unschooling for years,
> answering the same questions again and again.
Su
Jenny Cyphers
***My own newcomer question (I'm sure there were many, but this one still
rings in my ears):
"So, you're telling me that if I just leave them alone they will,
eventually, pull their math books down off the shelf and do math on
their own?"***
I don't remember exactly what my newcomer questions were, but I do remember a question about pot smoking way back when Chamille was just 5 or 6. Geez! She was only 5 or 6.... She's almost 16 and isn't interested at all in smoking pot, or doing any kinds of drugs, she won't even try alcoholic beverages, even if I offered her one, and I have every once in a while offered her a taste of something, which she politely declines.
What people have called me on, is some wording that I've used that had more written into it than I'd realized, and revealed areas in my thinking that I hadn't thought out well at all! I still work on that, and many times write and then re-write what I've written many times over so that it says exactly or as close to exactly what I want it to say and mean. (and if that's not a confusing sentence right there, then, aw forget it, that proves it right there!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rings in my ears):
"So, you're telling me that if I just leave them alone they will,
eventually, pull their math books down off the shelf and do math on
their own?"***
I don't remember exactly what my newcomer questions were, but I do remember a question about pot smoking way back when Chamille was just 5 or 6. Geez! She was only 5 or 6.... She's almost 16 and isn't interested at all in smoking pot, or doing any kinds of drugs, she won't even try alcoholic beverages, even if I offered her one, and I have every once in a while offered her a taste of something, which she politely declines.
What people have called me on, is some wording that I've used that had more written into it than I'd realized, and revealed areas in my thinking that I hadn't thought out well at all! I still work on that, and many times write and then re-write what I've written many times over so that it says exactly or as close to exactly what I want it to say and mean. (and if that's not a confusing sentence right there, then, aw forget it, that proves it right there!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]