new here
Debra Garner
Hi, my name is Debra. I am mother to Eimilee, Jacob, Samuel, and Aaron. Wife to Jeff. I have always homeschooled, never using a curriculum, very laid back. But lately have even more stepped back but have increased the
learning experiences around the house- more library trips, great learning videos, trips out of the house, trying make more of our everyday routine a learning experience. And the kids are loving it. I started keeping a log of
every learning experience they have on a daily basis without me sitting them down with a book and pencil. It was amazing.
Currently we live in Astoria, Or but are looking at moving to the Carson City Nevada area in 6 months to a year. Anyone here unschool in Nevada??
We are creative people.. hubby a guitarist and computer geek as well as a kite boarder, I spin wool and other fibers with drop spindle and wheel, knit, crochet and weave. I also am venturing out to make my own wooden
knitting needles for sale on ebay from exotic woods. We are working hard at starting our own business reselling online.
We homeschool purely for religious reasons. We love homeschooling and couldn't imagine sending them off to public school. We love learning together as a family.
Blessings,debra
learning experiences around the house- more library trips, great learning videos, trips out of the house, trying make more of our everyday routine a learning experience. And the kids are loving it. I started keeping a log of
every learning experience they have on a daily basis without me sitting them down with a book and pencil. It was amazing.
Currently we live in Astoria, Or but are looking at moving to the Carson City Nevada area in 6 months to a year. Anyone here unschool in Nevada??
We are creative people.. hubby a guitarist and computer geek as well as a kite boarder, I spin wool and other fibers with drop spindle and wheel, knit, crochet and weave. I also am venturing out to make my own wooden
knitting needles for sale on ebay from exotic woods. We are working hard at starting our own business reselling online.
We homeschool purely for religious reasons. We love homeschooling and couldn't imagine sending them off to public school. We love learning together as a family.
Blessings,debra
Vintage Girl
I was looking up unschooling math and found Sandra's page- I have devoured it, then saw this group mentioned. so hear I am..
I have 6 children ages 18 months to 15 years.. We have always homeschooled- unschooled at times but after 10 years of homeschooling I am finally truly understanding what it is to unschool.
I do have a question though... video games.. mario to be exact.. I saw it mentioned in the math articles.. could someone explain to me how playing Mario is related to math- so I can explain it to my husband :-)
thanks, debra
http://myvintagehome.blogspot.com
http://woolieacres.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have 6 children ages 18 months to 15 years.. We have always homeschooled- unschooled at times but after 10 years of homeschooling I am finally truly understanding what it is to unschool.
I do have a question though... video games.. mario to be exact.. I saw it mentioned in the math articles.. could someone explain to me how playing Mario is related to math- so I can explain it to my husband :-)
thanks, debra
http://myvintagehome.blogspot.com
http://woolieacres.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I do have a question though... video games.. mario to be exact.. I
saw it mentioned in the math articles.. could someone explain to me
how playing Mario is related to math- so I can explain it to my
husband :-) -=-
"Mario" isn't specific enough. What video game systems do you have?
What games are your kids playing?
Lots of things are collected here:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
No one game "teaches" math. My kids did play some very math-specific
games, mostly logic and patterns games (Zoombinis, Treasure Math
Storm). My guess is that your husband and you are thinking of math
in a schoolish way and looking for "math lessons" instead of changing
the way you perceive mathematics in the real world.
So poke around here, too: http://sandradodd.com/math
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
saw it mentioned in the math articles.. could someone explain to me
how playing Mario is related to math- so I can explain it to my
husband :-) -=-
"Mario" isn't specific enough. What video game systems do you have?
What games are your kids playing?
Lots of things are collected here:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
No one game "teaches" math. My kids did play some very math-specific
games, mostly logic and patterns games (Zoombinis, Treasure Math
Storm). My guess is that your husband and you are thinking of math
in a schoolish way and looking for "math lessons" instead of changing
the way you perceive mathematics in the real world.
So poke around here, too: http://sandradodd.com/math
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vintage Girl
I should have been more clear.. I was just curious about video games and whether it was using logic, puzzle solving, etc... Mario- all I could think was that it used puzzle solving techniques.
I read the whole math page you listed and am in agreement..when I was talking to my 13 year old son he was too curious about Mario. He likes Sim City, Roller Coaster Tycoon and Line Writer.. He can totally see how is using math skills playing those games- but not so much so with Mario.
They play Nintendo DS and on the computer. I have 5 boys and 1 daughter. The daughter knits, bakes and is learning to quilt. We can totally see where she is using math :-).. the boys- especially the older boys love the computer and video games.
I understand that the games don't teach math- I guess I meant what math skills are used.
Thanks so much for replying.
debra
I read the whole math page you listed and am in agreement..when I was talking to my 13 year old son he was too curious about Mario. He likes Sim City, Roller Coaster Tycoon and Line Writer.. He can totally see how is using math skills playing those games- but not so much so with Mario.
They play Nintendo DS and on the computer. I have 5 boys and 1 daughter. The daughter knits, bakes and is learning to quilt. We can totally see where she is using math :-).. the boys- especially the older boys love the computer and video games.
I understand that the games don't teach math- I guess I meant what math skills are used.
Thanks so much for replying.
debra
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] new here
-=-I do have a question though... video games.. mario to be exact.. I
saw it mentioned in the math articles.. could someone explain to me
how playing Mario is related to math- so I can explain it to my
husband :-) -=-
"Mario" isn't specific enough. What video game systems do you have?
What games are your kids playing?
Lots of things are collected here:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
No one game "teaches" math. My kids did play some very math-specific
games, mostly logic and patterns games (Zoombinis, Treasure Math
Storm). My guess is that your husband and you are thinking of math
in a schoolish way and looking for "math lessons" instead of changing
the way you perceive mathematics in the real world.
So poke around here, too: http://sandradodd.com/math
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=Mario- all I could think was that it used puzzle solving
techniques. -=-
There are lots of Mario games, though.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
techniques. -=-
There are lots of Mario games, though.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vintage Girl
Mario 64 is the only one they are playing- sorry.. brain fog..
Blessings, debra
Blessings, debra
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] new here
-=Mario- all I could think was that it used puzzle solving
techniques. -=-
There are lots of Mario games, though.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
Super Mario Galaxy has cool gravitational force stuff going on. Really cool stuff. I get lost sometimes in the beauty of the game and forget to play. Paper Mario is all about working in two dimensions and three dimensions. Again a stunning demonstration of something bland and dull sounding on paper. It is all logic and puzzle solving. But it isn't separate from story telling or geography or art. Just like most things exist in an overlap with other subjects if you are looking to make a list of how they fit one school curriculum or another. But Mario is about having a good time and playing on a video game. It may become a reference point for something else. Talking about orbits and gravity and all of those things might lead to or from Super Mario Galaxy or not. Maybe those experiences will just be about the pleasure of the game.
I was playing World of Warcraft today with Simon and Linnaea. Simon wanted to take my new character somewhere and I just followed him. He new how to get from the land we were in through 2 other lands so quickly. It was wonderful to follow where he led. His navigational skills in the game are fantastic. I don't know if that will predispose him to orienteering or being able to find his way around London or somewhere else, but it was awesome to sit at my computer while he sat at his and just see him negotiate within this massive world.
It sounds like you are still standing on the precipice contemplating unschooling. It sounds like unschooling is this scary chaos in front of you and you can't quite see how it works, but you want to, but you also want to know that your children will still be well-versed in the basics. There aren't subjects in real life. Life isn't divided up into English and Geometry and Calculus and European History and U.S. History and Social Studies. They all blend. History is rife in English and Geometry, and vice versa. One thing leads to another not in linear fashion but in a more immersive one. Say you get fascinated by knitting, I have this brilliant book on how to knit a traditional fisherman sweater. It has pictures of poor waifs with sharpened pieces of wire knitting Ganseys for a living or for relatives. The waifs lived not far from where I live now, but I got the book in Albuquerque. There is a moment of history. There is information about animal husbandry,
or about which breed of sheep or goat you use to get your wool from, if you want it. There is counting and designing and adjusting. There is the smell of the lanolin, the feel of raw wool, finding bits of it when you walk out near a field where sheep are kept and taking it home to see if you can spin it. There is the moments when you sit with others knitting in a circle chatting about something else while trying not to drop a stitch. And I don't know which of any of those moments, of those reference will be valuable, will make a knitter a better employee, a better adult. Maybe none of them will. But they all are learning moments, they are all part of the context of knitting. It is the same with video games. Maybe it is the emotional skills of dealing with frustration and coming up with techniques so that you can walk away when it is too much and come back when you are ready. Maybe it is the math, the programming, the logic, the story telling. Maybe it
is the sitting next to your brother watching in awe as he rescues Princess Peach with such finesse that will help to make you a stronger person, a more grounded person who knows that his family is there for him and because of that you won't have any problem reaching for the stars.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Vintage Girl <debra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 15 February, 2008 8:24:37 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] new here
I
should
have
been
more
clear..
I
was
just
curious
about
video
games
and
whether
it
was
using
logic,
puzzle
solving,
etc...
Mario-
all
I
could
think
was
that
it
used
puzzle
solving
techniques.
I
read
the
whole
math
page
you
listed
and
am
in
agreement..when
I
was
talking
to
my
13
year
old
son
he
was
too
curious
about
Mario.
He
likes
Sim
City,
Roller
Coaster
Tycoon
and
Line
Writer..
He
can
totally
see
how
is
using
math
skills
playing
those
games-
but
not
so
much
so
with
Mario.
They
play
Nintendo
DS
and
on
the
computer.
I
have
5
boys
and
1
daughter.
The
daughter
knits,
bakes
and
is
learning
to
quilt.
We
can
totally
see
where
she
is
using
math
:-)..
the
boys-
especially
the
older
boys
love
the
computer
and
video
games.
I
understand
that
the
games
don't
teach
math-
I
guess
I
meant
what
math
skills
are
used.
Thanks
so
much
for
replying.
debra
-----
Original
Message
-----
From:
Sandra
Dodd
To:
[email protected]
Sent:
Friday,
February
15,
2008
12:01
PM
Subject:
Re:
[AlwaysLearning]
new
here
-=-I
do
have
a
question
though...
video
games..
mario
to
be
exact..
I
saw
it
mentioned
in
the
math
articles..
could
someone
explain
to
me
how
playing
Mario
is
related
to
math-
so
I
can
explain
it
to
my
husband
:-)
-=-
"Mario"
isn't
specific
enough.
What
video
game
systems
do
you
have?
What
games
are
your
kids
playing?
Lots
of
things
are
collected
here:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
No
one
game
"teaches"
math.
My
kids
did
play
some
very
math-specific
games,
mostly
logic
and
patterns
games
(Zoombinis,
Treasure
Math
Storm).
My
guess
is
that
your
husband
and
you
are
thinking
of
math
in
a
schoolish
way
and
looking
for
"math
lessons"
instead
of
changing
the
way
you
perceive
mathematics
in
the
real
world.
So
poke
around
here,
too:
http://sandradodd.com/math
Sandra
[Non-text
portions
of
this
message
have
been
removed]
[Non-text
portions
of
this
message
have
been
removed]
Yahoo!
Groups
Links
your
group
on
the
web,
go
to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
settings:
Individual
Email
|
Traditional
settings
online
go
to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/join
(Yahoo!
ID
required)
settings
via
email:
mailto:[email protected]
mailto:[email protected]
from
this
group,
send
an
email
to:
[email protected]
of
Yahoo!
Groups
is
subject
to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was playing World of Warcraft today with Simon and Linnaea. Simon wanted to take my new character somewhere and I just followed him. He new how to get from the land we were in through 2 other lands so quickly. It was wonderful to follow where he led. His navigational skills in the game are fantastic. I don't know if that will predispose him to orienteering or being able to find his way around London or somewhere else, but it was awesome to sit at my computer while he sat at his and just see him negotiate within this massive world.
It sounds like you are still standing on the precipice contemplating unschooling. It sounds like unschooling is this scary chaos in front of you and you can't quite see how it works, but you want to, but you also want to know that your children will still be well-versed in the basics. There aren't subjects in real life. Life isn't divided up into English and Geometry and Calculus and European History and U.S. History and Social Studies. They all blend. History is rife in English and Geometry, and vice versa. One thing leads to another not in linear fashion but in a more immersive one. Say you get fascinated by knitting, I have this brilliant book on how to knit a traditional fisherman sweater. It has pictures of poor waifs with sharpened pieces of wire knitting Ganseys for a living or for relatives. The waifs lived not far from where I live now, but I got the book in Albuquerque. There is a moment of history. There is information about animal husbandry,
or about which breed of sheep or goat you use to get your wool from, if you want it. There is counting and designing and adjusting. There is the smell of the lanolin, the feel of raw wool, finding bits of it when you walk out near a field where sheep are kept and taking it home to see if you can spin it. There is the moments when you sit with others knitting in a circle chatting about something else while trying not to drop a stitch. And I don't know which of any of those moments, of those reference will be valuable, will make a knitter a better employee, a better adult. Maybe none of them will. But they all are learning moments, they are all part of the context of knitting. It is the same with video games. Maybe it is the emotional skills of dealing with frustration and coming up with techniques so that you can walk away when it is too much and come back when you are ready. Maybe it is the math, the programming, the logic, the story telling. Maybe it
is the sitting next to your brother watching in awe as he rescues Princess Peach with such finesse that will help to make you a stronger person, a more grounded person who knows that his family is there for him and because of that you won't have any problem reaching for the stars.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Vintage Girl <debra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 15 February, 2008 8:24:37 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] new here
I
should
have
been
more
clear..
I
was
just
curious
about
video
games
and
whether
it
was
using
logic,
puzzle
solving,
etc...
Mario-
all
I
could
think
was
that
it
used
puzzle
solving
techniques.
I
read
the
whole
math
page
you
listed
and
am
in
agreement..when
I
was
talking
to
my
13
year
old
son
he
was
too
curious
about
Mario.
He
likes
Sim
City,
Roller
Coaster
Tycoon
and
Line
Writer..
He
can
totally
see
how
is
using
math
skills
playing
those
games-
but
not
so
much
so
with
Mario.
They
play
Nintendo
DS
and
on
the
computer.
I
have
5
boys
and
1
daughter.
The
daughter
knits,
bakes
and
is
learning
to
quilt.
We
can
totally
see
where
she
is
using
math
:-)..
the
boys-
especially
the
older
boys
love
the
computer
and
video
games.
I
understand
that
the
games
don't
teach
math-
I
guess
I
meant
what
math
skills
are
used.
Thanks
so
much
for
replying.
debra
-----
Original
Message
-----
From:
Sandra
Dodd
To:
[email protected]
Sent:
Friday,
February
15,
2008
12:01
PM
Subject:
Re:
[AlwaysLearning]
new
here
-=-I
do
have
a
question
though...
video
games..
mario
to
be
exact..
I
saw
it
mentioned
in
the
math
articles..
could
someone
explain
to
me
how
playing
Mario
is
related
to
math-
so
I
can
explain
it
to
my
husband
:-)
-=-
"Mario"
isn't
specific
enough.
What
video
game
systems
do
you
have?
What
games
are
your
kids
playing?
Lots
of
things
are
collected
here:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
No
one
game
"teaches"
math.
My
kids
did
play
some
very
math-specific
games,
mostly
logic
and
patterns
games
(Zoombinis,
Treasure
Math
Storm).
My
guess
is
that
your
husband
and
you
are
thinking
of
math
in
a
schoolish
way
and
looking
for
"math
lessons"
instead
of
changing
the
way
you
perceive
mathematics
in
the
real
world.
So
poke
around
here,
too:
http://sandradodd.com/math
Sandra
[Non-text
portions
of
this
message
have
been
removed]
[Non-text
portions
of
this
message
have
been
removed]
Yahoo!
Groups
Links
your
group
on
the
web,
go
to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
settings:
Individual
|
Traditional
settings
online
go
to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/join
(Yahoo!
ID
required)
settings
via
email:
mailto:[email protected]
mailto:[email protected]
from
this
group,
send
an
to:
[email protected]
of
Yahoo!
Groups
is
subject
to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Mario 64 is the only one they are playing- sorry.. brain fog..-=-
Holly says she's played it, but doesn't know it very well.
The original Mario game is where Kirby learned map reading (from
using a player's guide). He learned deductive reasoning, too, from
the bonus round, which only had eight different permutations (all
shown in the player's guide) so if he made a good couple of early
guesses (I would help him) he could figure out which map it was and
just fill in the matching items and get the bonus power/life/whatever.
In both cases, it wasn't simply playing the game, but learning ABOUT
the game and how to play it more effectively that created the great
learning opportunities.
I think instead of focussing so narrowly on wanting to prove that
EVERY game has everything (or that any one game has math) you should
look at some of the articles linked on that videogames page that
discuss the kind of thinking involved, and not focus so schoolishly
on "math."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Holly says she's played it, but doesn't know it very well.
The original Mario game is where Kirby learned map reading (from
using a player's guide). He learned deductive reasoning, too, from
the bonus round, which only had eight different permutations (all
shown in the player's guide) so if he made a good couple of early
guesses (I would help him) he could figure out which map it was and
just fill in the matching items and get the bonus power/life/whatever.
In both cases, it wasn't simply playing the game, but learning ABOUT
the game and how to play it more effectively that created the great
learning opportunities.
I think instead of focussing so narrowly on wanting to prove that
EVERY game has everything (or that any one game has math) you should
look at some of the articles linked on that videogames page that
discuss the kind of thinking involved, and not focus so schoolishly
on "math."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-There is information about animal husbandry,
or about which breed of sheep or goat you use to get your wool from,
if you want it. There is counting and designing and adjusting.-=-
"Counting" and "sheep" in the same sentence has to remind me of this
blog post I made just recently:
http://thinkingsticks.blogspot.com/2008/01/score-and-counting-sheep-
in-prehistoric.html
Perhaps the way to find math is to stop looking for it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
or about which breed of sheep or goat you use to get your wool from,
if you want it. There is counting and designing and adjusting.-=-
"Counting" and "sheep" in the same sentence has to remind me of this
blog post I made just recently:
http://thinkingsticks.blogspot.com/2008/01/score-and-counting-sheep-
in-prehistoric.html
Perhaps the way to find math is to stop looking for it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
Maybe it
is the sitting next to your brother watching in awe as he rescues Princess Peach with such finesse that will help to make you a stronger person, a more grounded person who knows that his family is there for him and because of that you won't have any problem reaching for the stars.
-------------------------
Sorry I got my pronouns confused. It should be "who knows that your family is there for you and because of that..." Not the his and him stuff.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
is the sitting next to your brother watching in awe as he rescues Princess Peach with such finesse that will help to make you a stronger person, a more grounded person who knows that his family is there for him and because of that you won't have any problem reaching for the stars.
-------------------------
Sorry I got my pronouns confused. It should be "who knows that your family is there for you and because of that..." Not the his and him stuff.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vintage Girl
Thank you for your replies. I think I totally misrepresented myself. I have been homeschooling for 10 years. We have lots of curriculum around here but never really got into it. The kids just don't like canned curriculum.. then came the realization that I have incredibly creative children. Sitting down to schoolwork was just defeating the purpose and squelching their creativity. My daughter taught herself (with little help from dad who is an amazing guitarist) how to play guitar over 6 months. She was online looking up guitar chords and practicing and practicing. then she got to the point where she could dissect a song and learn how to play it even if she couldn't find the chords online..
We had a very crazy year last year.. in light of all this the kids wanted something more structured, I bartered for SOS computer curriculum.. They enjoyed it for a season but after that they done.. It became a struggle. That is where we are now.
My dh broke his ankle 3 weeks ago and has been home. It has been stressful- the house is a mess, I am pulling my hair out. So it was time for this mommy to help the children get refocused on what they wanted to do.
As far as the computer games- we were just interested in the type of thinking involved. I didn't want a list that proved that this video game covered this subject.. My 13 yr old is finding this all so interesting. My dh and I are as well.
It has been a great while since the kids have sat down to "do" math. It has always been my position that they would learn what they need to when they need to. And I see math being done in real life daily. Sometimes my dh needs more- so I pass on information to him.
I love to learn that is why I joined the list. I had never realized how much thinking skills went into video games. Of course I was a kid when pac man, frogger and donkey kong were the fore front of video games- remember intelevision?
Thank you again for your patience with me,
debra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We had a very crazy year last year.. in light of all this the kids wanted something more structured, I bartered for SOS computer curriculum.. They enjoyed it for a season but after that they done.. It became a struggle. That is where we are now.
My dh broke his ankle 3 weeks ago and has been home. It has been stressful- the house is a mess, I am pulling my hair out. So it was time for this mommy to help the children get refocused on what they wanted to do.
As far as the computer games- we were just interested in the type of thinking involved. I didn't want a list that proved that this video game covered this subject.. My 13 yr old is finding this all so interesting. My dh and I are as well.
It has been a great while since the kids have sat down to "do" math. It has always been my position that they would learn what they need to when they need to. And I see math being done in real life daily. Sometimes my dh needs more- so I pass on information to him.
I love to learn that is why I joined the list. I had never realized how much thinking skills went into video games. Of course I was a kid when pac man, frogger and donkey kong were the fore front of video games- remember intelevision?
Thank you again for your patience with me,
debra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gold Standard
>>Super Mario Galaxy has cool gravitational force stuff going on. Reallycool stuff. I get lost sometimes in the beauty of
>>the game and forget to play.<<OMG that game is a masterpiece! Visually stunning! So massive in its
concepts!
Which brings me to the great amount of chatting we have had about HOW these
amazing games are thought of and created. Talk about creativity and
mathematical thinking! All of that visual and conceptual mastery comes down
to programming on itsy bitsy levels...just fascinating...
Jacki
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "Gold Standard" <jacki@...>
wrote:
Revenge of the Right Brain
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/brain.html?
pg=1&topic=brain&topic_set=
wrote:
>HOW these
>
> > Which brings me to the great amount of chatting we have had about
> amazing games are thought of and created. Talk about creativity andcomes down
> mathematical thinking! All of that visual and conceptual mastery
> to programming on itsy bitsy levels...just fascinating...You might be interested in this article about the Conceptual Age:
>
>
Revenge of the Right Brain
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/brain.html?
pg=1&topic=brain&topic_set=