Helga

I'm looking to get some books on unschooling. There are quite a few! If you had to chose your top 2 - 3 books on unschooling/natural learning what would they be? I definitely, but which one? I want to get a John Holt book, but which one? He has published about 6.

Thanks heaps for your wisdom,

Jude

Nancy Machaj

I love Rue Kream's book, Parenting a Free Child
Valerie Fitzenreiter wrote a good one, The Unprocessed Child
And Sandra Dodd's new book is amazing, The Big Book of Unschooling,
of course, I liked her book, Moving a Puddle also.

I think John Holts; books are less useful than the four I mentioned,
actually.
He was a teacher writing about schooled kids.

These writers are writing about their real life experiences with
unschooled children.

Best,
Nancy


--
Nancy & dh Buzz
dd Zibby 2-16-04, Henry 9-14-07
chicago, il, usa
http://happychildhood.homeschooljournal.net






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gabihugs

I'm looking for the same, especially ones I might strew for my oldest(almost 13) who wants to be in school (told me she needs more structure . . feels lazy homeschooling), also misses friends (sees them at band).

Anyway, was looking at the list of John Holt books yesterday, but don't know where to start, I've read "How Children Fail" and many JOhn Gatto articles. I want some around the house.
Sorry to add myself to your query Jude, but like you say, so many out there, I've read everything at the local library (not much) and want to add to my own library now.

Gabi

--- In [email protected], "Helga" <jude.dickson@...> wrote:
>
> I'm looking to get some books on unschooling. There are quite a few! If you had to chose your top 2 - 3 books on unschooling/natural learning what would they be? I definitely, but which one? I want to get a John Holt book, but which one? He has published about 6.
>
> Thanks heaps for your wisdom,
>
> Jude
>

Melissa

When we first started out I liked:

The Unschooling Unmanual (various authors)

The Well Adjusted Child - The Social Benefits of Homeschooling by Rachel Gathercole (this was a great help to me - it allowed me to let go of my illogical concerns about socialization)

I found John Holt's How Children Learn at the library by accident (well, I suppose there are no accidents!) and it was the first step on my discovery of unschooling. It got me digging around for more information on Natural/Self Directed Learning. It still holds a special place for me.

As I discovered Unschooling was more about parenting than "not schooling", I read, and thoroughly enjoyed, Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn.

--Melissa


(Haven't contributed via posts often, saw this and thought I might have some helpful input!)


--- In [email protected], "Helga" <jude.dickson@...> wrote:
>
> I'm looking to get some books on unschooling. There are quite a few! If you had to chose your top 2 - 3 books on unschooling/natural learning what would they be? I definitely, but which one? I want to get a John Holt book, but which one? He has published about 6.
>
> Thanks heaps for your wisdom,
>
> Jude
>

DJ250

I'll add Dayna Martin's book "Radical Unschooling: A Revolution Has Begun!". She also has YouTube videos. Also, for parenting, "Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves" by Naomi Aldort.

~Melissa, in MD :)

----- Original Message -----
From: Melissa
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:21 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Unschooling books



When we first started out I liked:

The Unschooling Unmanual (various authors)

The Well Adjusted Child - The Social Benefits of Homeschooling by Rachel Gathercole (this was a great help to me - it allowed me to let go of my illogical concerns about socialization)

I found John Holt's How Children Learn at the library by accident (well, I suppose there are no accidents!) and it was the first step on my discovery of unschooling. It got me digging around for more information on Natural/Self Directed Learning. It still holds a special place for me.

As I discovered Unschooling was more about parenting than "not schooling", I read, and thoroughly enjoyed, Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn.

--Melissa

(Haven't contributed via posts often, saw this and thought I might have some helpful input!)

--- In [email protected], "Helga" <jude.dickson@...> wrote:
>
> I'm looking to get some books on unschooling. There are quite a few! If you had to chose your top 2 - 3 books on unschooling/natural learning what would they be? I definitely, but which one? I want to get a John Holt book, but which one? He has published about 6.
>
> Thanks heaps for your wisdom,
>
> Jude
>






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Joyce Fetteroll

On Mar 2, 2010, at 10:16 AM, gabihugs wrote:

> I'm looking for the same, especially ones I might strew for my
> oldest(almost 13) who wants to be in school (told me she needs more
> structure . . feels lazy homeschooling), also misses friends (sees
> them at band).

If your daughter were wistfully wishing she could homeschool, do you
think books promoting school would help make school a happier place
for her?

It's pretty much propaganda. It's telling her that her feelings are
wrong and these ideas are right.

If she'd like more structure, help her build more structure into her
days. Talk about what she'd like to do and find ways to do it. Rather
than trying to convince her homeschooling is better with someone
else's words, make life at home better!

Joyce

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Robyn L. Coburn

Rue Kream's book - "Parenting a Free Child - An Unschooling Life"
http://tinyurl.com/yf2z8ju

Valerie Fitzenreiter's book - "The Unprocessed Child"
http://tinyurl.com/ylcepmu

Sandra Dodd - "The Big Book of Unschooling"
http://www.sandradodd.com/unschooling

Holt is cool, but old and relatively theoretical compared to these
experience based books.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com

[email protected]

<I'm looking for the same, especially ones I might strew for my
oldest(almost 13) who wants to be in school (told me she needs more structure . .
feels lazy homeschooling)I'm looking for the same, especially ones I m>

Hi Gabi,

My daughter (also almost 13) quite likes to dip into Grace Llewellyn's
"Teenage Liberation Handbook", which is mostly directed at teens and has loads
of inspirational ideas about doing interesting things (eg volunteering)
that aren't dictated by school. And following their own interests, of course.

Could your daughter have the occasional shopping/cinema trip with her
schooled friends directly before or after band practice?

Jude xx




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Sandra Dodd

-=-I want to get a John Holt book, but which one? He has published
about 6. -=-

I liked Learning All The Time. It was available in a better edition
(cleaner paper) when Kirby was young and I wanted to read some Holt.
In college we had read How Children Learn and How Children Fail, but
the only editions of those I could find were falling-apart paperbacks
from the 1970's, when I was looking.

Honestly, though, a lifetime has passed since Holt passed away, and he
never knew anyone who had been unschooled throughout their school
years. The only people he met who hadn't been to school were either
young or had been taken out of school after some years of frustration.

Those who have been unschooling a long time know things John Holt
would have loved to have seen, but he missed it.

There's a fair amount of Holt to read from links on this page, without
having to find a book:
http://sandradodd.com/johnholt
The interviews are especially cool, as they aren't in any books anyway!


Sandra

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Sandra Dodd

-=-I'm looking for the same, especially ones I might strew for my
oldest(almost 13) who wants to be in school (told me she needs more
structure . . feels lazy homeschooling)-=-

If it wasn't her option to leave school, that problem might not
resolve itself.

One of the worst things about school is that the kids feel trapped.
That can happen with homeschooling, too.

Homeschooling needs to be way more interesting than school for the
kids to be happy with it. Buying more Holt books won't make their
lives more interesting.

You might find some ideas here, though:
http://sandradodd.com/strewing

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Nancy Machaj

for teens I would recommend Grace Llewellyns The Teenage Liberation
Handbook

--I'm looking for the same, especially ones I might strew for my
oldest(almost 13) who wants to be in school (told me she needs more
structure . . feels lazy homeschooling), also misses friends (sees
them at band). --

Nancy


--
Nancy & dh Buzz
dd Zibby 2-16-04, Henry 9-14-07
chicago, il, usa
http://happychildhood.homeschooljournal.net






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Jenny Cyphers

Definitely Sandra's book! The Big Book of Unschooling. I've read it several times now and each time I read a bit, I catch something new or different. It's designed to be read at random, but you can read from front to back as well!





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Jenny Cyphers

***My daughter (also almost 13) quite likes to dip into Grace Llewellyn's
"Teenage Liberation Handbook", which is mostly directed at teens and has loads
of inspirational ideas about doing interesting things (eg volunteering)
that aren't dictated by school. And following their own interests, of course.***

Interestingly, my own daughter has never been interested in reading this book! Then again, she's never been to school and doesn't have the drive to "self educate". I loved this book, don't get me wrong here! It's just that it's really geared towards teens that are in school and wanting to leave or teens that have just left school. If a kid has grown up with school, then leaving it can feel a bit like dropping out of life and this book is really good at looking at ways to replace school.

For a kid like my daughter, she's never felt like she's dropped out of life by dropping out of school. Learning and living are all intertwined together in this natural streaming, seamless process. I loaned my copy to my daughter's boyfriend, who has it stashed in his room somewhere where his dad can't find it. He's read some of it. One day, I may get it back!

For a kid that really wants to be in school though, this book might feel a bit manipulative!





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Robin Bentley

I also would suggest Sandra's book. For straightforward and sensible
information, there's nothing like it. The links on each page lead to
more great on-line writings of numerous unschoolers.

Robin B.

On Mar 2, 2010, at 1:46 PM, Jenny Cyphers wrote:

> Definitely Sandra's book! The Big Book of Unschooling. I've read
> it several times now and each time I read a bit, I catch something
> new or different. It's designed to be read at random, but you can
> read from front to back as well!
>
>

Robin Bentley

On Mar 2, 2010, at 2:01 PM, Jenny Cyphers wrote:

> ***My daughter (also almost 13) quite likes to dip into Grace
> Llewellyn's
> "Teenage Liberation Handbook", which is mostly directed at teens and
> has loads
> of inspirational ideas about doing interesting things (eg
> volunteering)
> that aren't dictated by school. And following their own interests,
> of course.***
>
> Interestingly, my own daughter has never been interested in reading
> this book! Then again, she's never been to school and doesn't have
> the drive to "self educate". I loved this book, don't get me wrong
> here! It's just that it's really geared towards teens that are in
> school and wanting to leave or teens that have just left school. If
> a kid has grown up with school, then leaving it can feel a bit like
> dropping out of life and this book is really good at looking at ways
> to replace school.

The Teenage Liberation Handbook was good for me to read (before my
daughter was of school age). It helped me make some sense of my
experience in school. After reading it, I felt determined that my
daughter would not go through what I did. I was just learning about
homeschooling and unschooling, so it was one of my early steps. I have
since found many more reasons for Michelle to be at home that really
have nothing to do with school avoidance.

Robin B.

d.lewis

***I want to get a John Holt book, but which one? He has published about 6.
***

He published nine and two more were published after his death.

John Holt is good for getting ideas into your head. If you want to better
understand how humans learn and how harmful schools can be, John Holt's
books would be a good place to start.

This ties in with what Sandra wrote in the "to bathe or not to bathe?"
thread:

*Each individual family needs to be able to understand, defend and
justify what they're doing and why. *

John Holt's books can help you develop a defense and justification of your
choice to keep your kids out of school.

(For help with specific unschooling problems or questions I think this list
is a better resource.)

Some of Holt's early books were written when he was working for school
reform. They are wonderful because they shine the spotlight on human
learning and on what schools do wrong. I think everyone should read them.
<g>

"Instead of Education" is a really interesting book that doesn't get
mentioned much. He wrote it after he wrote the pretty radical, "Escape
From Childhood." It is not like what you can read on this list but it
will help you build your understanding of human learning and may give you
some good arguments for keeping your kids out of school. It's short, just a
couple hundred pages.

I really like all the Holt books but I know some people find them kind of
dry. I like the way he wrote. I like the way he thought. I enjoyed his
progression of ideas from his first book in 1964 to his last in 1981.

If you get the first two books, "How Children Fail" and "How Children
Learn," get the revised editions. Holt comments some on his own ideas and
notes where he has changed his opinion. Those are very interesting. If
you buy "Teach Your Own" get the 1981 edition and skip the revised version
that was updated by Pat Farenga.

For good information and advice about highly evolved unschooling keep
reading this list.<g>

Deb Lewis

Vicki Dennis

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:34 AM, d.lewis <d.lewis@...> wrote:

>
>
> ***I want to get a John Holt book, but which one? He has published about 6.
>
> ***
>
> He published nine and two more were published after his death.
>
> John Holt is good for getting ideas into your head. If you want to better
> understand how humans learn and how harmful schools can be, John Holt's
> books would be a good place to start.
>
>
> Some of Holt's early books were written when he was working for school
> reform.
>

I think it is not mentioned nearly often enough that Holt was a teacher who
evolved from trying to cure this system from within.

> They are wonderful because they shine the spotlight on human
> learning and on what schools do wrong. I think everyone should read them.
> <g>
>
> "Instead of Education" is a really interesting book that doesn't get
> mentioned much. He wrote it after he wrote the pretty radical, "Escape
> From Childhood." It is not like what you can read on this list but it
> will help you build your understanding of human learning and may give you
> some good arguments for keeping your kids out of school. It's short, just a
>
> couple hundred pages.
>

When I first read Escape From Childhood in the 80's I was pretty "put
off". Maybe I was just a little slow in my own evolution!.


>
> I really like all the Holt books but I know some people find them kind of
> dry. I like the way he wrote. I like the way he thought. I enjoyed his
> progression of ideas from his first book in 1964 to his last in 1981.
>

I have MUCH respect for Holt being able to change his analysis and ideas and
suggestions for solutions. In some ways I saw it as him rejecting some of
the attempts to make him a guru and unschooling a cult. I was also
fascinated watching him change both in his books and perhaps moreso in the
pages of Growing Without Schooling. I think it is important to remember that
even though Holt tried hard not to lean on his privileged "credentials", it
was impossible for his philosophy not to have been influenced by same.
Just as there is not a complete substitute for everyday parental experience
in learning about children.


>
> If you get the first two books, "How Children Fail" and "How Children
> Learn," get the revised editions. Holt comments some on his own ideas and
> notes where he has changed his opinion. Those are very interesting.
>
I always preferred How Children Fail to How Children Learn (I read both in
high school in the 60s along with Herndon and Kozol).
I still disagree with some of the observations and Piaget interpretations in
How Children Learn but find How Children Fail to be "spot on" with
"scripts" children and teachers utilize.



> If
> you buy "Teach Your Own" get the 1981 edition and skip the revised version
> that was updated by Pat Farenga.
>

I got a first edition of Teach Your own but it didn't fully resonate with
me. Just how much revision did Farenga do?

>
> For good information and advice about highly evolved unschooling keep
> reading this list.<g>
>
> Deb Lewis
>

My opinion is that reading Holt is still relevant for "deep background" and
especially for the idea of respecting children or developmentally disabled
humans or "poorly educated" adults. His ideas that "properly schooled"
does not at all equate "well educated" or especially "intelligent" are
still fresh and relevant. But I also agree that places like this list
can provide information which might well be similar to what Holt would have
evolved into but for his untimely death nearly 25 years ago.

I would be interested in others opinions (current or past) about Escape From
Childhood.

vicki


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Sandra Dodd

-=-I would be interested in others opinions (current or past) about
Escape From
Childhood.-=-

I was just reading it recently. Didn't finish; read it a few hours.

It had interesting historical accounts, but as to modern life, it
seemed to me that it could only have been written by someone who
wasn't a parent himself. <g>

Sandra

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Debbie

I must agree... Rue Kream's book, Parenting a Free Child is SO wonderful!  I have recently found an incredibly Unschooly type book by Avi.  It is called The Beginning of the End:
http://www.amazon.com/End-Beginning-Being-Adventures-Smaller/dp/0152049681
Read this book and see right now as very valuable and exactly perfect!  I read it AFTER my ten year old read it.  He loved it at his level and I totally loved it at my "sometimes questioning unschooing mama" level!
Debbie

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