Intro and a question about family attitudes
Camille
Hi, I'm Camille and I have an almost 7yr old girl. I started homeschooling very recently, just this past Summer. Unschooling is something I am very interested in, but to be honest have only just recently even started reading about. I am trying to shift the way I approach my relationship with my daughter. I grew up with a very emotionally and psychologically abusive mother (let's be honest, she hasn't changed) and overcoming the negative attitude toward my own child has been a long and slow process. Since I found Unschooling and Sandra's website, I've been more able to stop and see a situation before acting on it and choosing to be respectful and considerate instead of annoyed and spiteful. I talk to her a lot (I always have) about how sorry I am for my blowups or how I shouldn't have said x or shouldn't have done y and let her know that I'm working on it, because I really am. If I catch myself mid-flip-out then I try to explain that as well.
However, being able to see myself before I act has also given me the ability to see how my husband's action/reaction to her is so...just...mean. She often doesn't even have to be interacting with him, just being a kid and he's totally on her just because he's annoyed or she's being silly (or the other day she put something in her mouth after taking it away from the dog and he just went off!) Not all the time, but many times I can even see that he sounds just like my mother might have. I feel like (maybe I read somewhere?) I'm not supposed to correct him in front of her, but at the same time I think she deserves to know that she shouldn't be treated like that. It's not just him, either. Much as his mother loves her, she belittles her whenever she's around as well.
My question is about how to approach a situation where other people are being disrespectful to your child. Not just random people, but people in your family or people that you care about. People that are older than you and deserve your respect.
I'll probably have a lot of questions as I try more and more to implement the things I've learned. I'm glad to have found this group.
However, being able to see myself before I act has also given me the ability to see how my husband's action/reaction to her is so...just...mean. She often doesn't even have to be interacting with him, just being a kid and he's totally on her just because he's annoyed or she's being silly (or the other day she put something in her mouth after taking it away from the dog and he just went off!) Not all the time, but many times I can even see that he sounds just like my mother might have. I feel like (maybe I read somewhere?) I'm not supposed to correct him in front of her, but at the same time I think she deserves to know that she shouldn't be treated like that. It's not just him, either. Much as his mother loves her, she belittles her whenever she's around as well.
My question is about how to approach a situation where other people are being disrespectful to your child. Not just random people, but people in your family or people that you care about. People that are older than you and deserve your respect.
I'll probably have a lot of questions as I try more and more to implement the things I've learned. I'm glad to have found this group.
Sandra Dodd
-=-My question is about how to approach a situation where other people
are being disrespectful to your child. Not just random people, but
people in your family or people that you care about. People that are
older than you and deserve your respect. -=-
I used to talk to my husband about how healing it was for me to be
nicer to Kirby than my mom had been to me. I would tell him the sweet
stories of the day, about times I had thought of saying or doing one
thing, but had thought a bit and done another, and how happy the kids
were, and how good it made me feel, too.
I didn't say "And you should do that, too," but after a couple of
years he did. It was gradual, but it came around.
Sandra
are being disrespectful to your child. Not just random people, but
people in your family or people that you care about. People that are
older than you and deserve your respect. -=-
I used to talk to my husband about how healing it was for me to be
nicer to Kirby than my mom had been to me. I would tell him the sweet
stories of the day, about times I had thought of saying or doing one
thing, but had thought a bit and done another, and how happy the kids
were, and how good it made me feel, too.
I didn't say "And you should do that, too," but after a couple of
years he did. It was gradual, but it came around.
Sandra
Jenny Cyphers
***However, being able to see myself before I act has also given me the ability to see how my husband's action/reaction to her is so...just... mean.
My question is about how to approach a situation where other people are being disrespectful to your child. Not just random people, but people in your family or people that you care about. People that are older than you and deserve your respect. ***
Hi Camille, first, I love your name! It's my oldest daughter's name even though I spell it different!
Just because a person is older, like your mother, doesn't mean she deserves respect. Kindness perhaps, but respect is something that is earned becuase the person has been a person worthy of respect.
Your husband is a different matter. I can understand how it must be. Previously, you were partners in your meanness and how you treated your child. You, as partners established patterns of behavior in how you treat your child. You, mom, have found another way and because of that, the meanness is glaring and obvious. To your husband, it might not be at all. Have you talked with him about the changes that you've made internally to heal yourself from your own childhood and how you've come to find that being kinder and gentler is better? Sometimes, just talking with your partner in those terms helps.
I'm assuming he wants to be a good father and have a decent relationship with his daughter. He may not even realize that what he's doing is wrong, or that you've changed how you see things. That is where I'd start. In the mean time, is there a way to diffuse the situation when things get tense and your husband is frustrated and upset? Can you mediate? Can you bring humor to the situation? Then later when everyone is calm, maybe talk with your husband about ways to be calm and not yell or be mean? Maybe let him know that if he talked to you in that way, you'd maybe not feel like being around him much, and that you'd avoid spending time with him and that it's likely that will happen with your daughter if he doesn't change things.
Although, I don't talk about this much, this is very much how my husband was. He learned how to control his anger. It took time. He read books, and looked up things online. He found ways to meditate in the moment, to take himself away from the situation, so that he wouldn't blow.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My question is about how to approach a situation where other people are being disrespectful to your child. Not just random people, but people in your family or people that you care about. People that are older than you and deserve your respect. ***
Hi Camille, first, I love your name! It's my oldest daughter's name even though I spell it different!
Just because a person is older, like your mother, doesn't mean she deserves respect. Kindness perhaps, but respect is something that is earned becuase the person has been a person worthy of respect.
Your husband is a different matter. I can understand how it must be. Previously, you were partners in your meanness and how you treated your child. You, as partners established patterns of behavior in how you treat your child. You, mom, have found another way and because of that, the meanness is glaring and obvious. To your husband, it might not be at all. Have you talked with him about the changes that you've made internally to heal yourself from your own childhood and how you've come to find that being kinder and gentler is better? Sometimes, just talking with your partner in those terms helps.
I'm assuming he wants to be a good father and have a decent relationship with his daughter. He may not even realize that what he's doing is wrong, or that you've changed how you see things. That is where I'd start. In the mean time, is there a way to diffuse the situation when things get tense and your husband is frustrated and upset? Can you mediate? Can you bring humor to the situation? Then later when everyone is calm, maybe talk with your husband about ways to be calm and not yell or be mean? Maybe let him know that if he talked to you in that way, you'd maybe not feel like being around him much, and that you'd avoid spending time with him and that it's likely that will happen with your daughter if he doesn't change things.
Although, I don't talk about this much, this is very much how my husband was. He learned how to control his anger. It took time. He read books, and looked up things online. He found ways to meditate in the moment, to take himself away from the situation, so that he wouldn't blow.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DJ250
I've found the same thing in our household, with my dh. I would just add
that when you observe what you feel is disrespectful behavior from your dh
toward your child, restrain yourself from saying anything in front of him
and the kid(s). Choose another time to voice your concerns and do so in a
non-defensive way. I know I get emotional when dealing stuff like this and
I have to make concerted effort to be gentle and kind. :-)
~Melissa, in MD :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Intro and a question about family attitudes
-=-My question is about how to approach a situation where other people
are being disrespectful to your child. Not just random people, but
people in your family or people that you care about. People that are
older than you and deserve your respect. -=-
I used to talk to my husband about how healing it was for me to be
nicer to Kirby than my mom had been to me. I would tell him the sweet
stories of the day, about times I had thought of saying or doing one
thing, but had thought a bit and done another, and how happy the kids
were, and how good it made me feel, too.
I didn't say "And you should do that, too," but after a couple of
years he did. It was gradual, but it came around.
Sandra
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2702 - Release Date: 02/21/10
14:34:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that when you observe what you feel is disrespectful behavior from your dh
toward your child, restrain yourself from saying anything in front of him
and the kid(s). Choose another time to voice your concerns and do so in a
non-defensive way. I know I get emotional when dealing stuff like this and
I have to make concerted effort to be gentle and kind. :-)
~Melissa, in MD :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Intro and a question about family attitudes
-=-My question is about how to approach a situation where other people
are being disrespectful to your child. Not just random people, but
people in your family or people that you care about. People that are
older than you and deserve your respect. -=-
I used to talk to my husband about how healing it was for me to be
nicer to Kirby than my mom had been to me. I would tell him the sweet
stories of the day, about times I had thought of saying or doing one
thing, but had thought a bit and done another, and how happy the kids
were, and how good it made me feel, too.
I didn't say "And you should do that, too," but after a couple of
years he did. It was gradual, but it came around.
Sandra
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2702 - Release Date: 02/21/10
14:34:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
Sometimes what has worked much better around here than talking at all, is to
send emails. I find I can edit myself better - but don't make every email a
critique! If your dh is away at work all day, he can become disconnected
from what is happening in the home. If it is allowable (don't get him in
trouble at work!) maybe send him some of those sweet stories as they occur.
One thing that my dh and I have done a lot, is talk about our own childhoods
and the events and feelings that were horrible - how we don't want to repeat
those with Jayn, how we don't want her to have similar feelings or memories
about us.
I found that my dh had a lot of mixed emotions about his mom. I dare say I
do also, but as in your case, his mom is the one who was continuing to
interact with our family in a difficult way, even though it was not a matter
of her being in company with our dd. I found that as willing as he was to
tell me about the unpleasant way she treated him when he was a child, he
would still get very defensive, startlingly so, if I criticized her in
certain places. For example, he was very invested in the idea that she is a
wonderful home decorator and didn't want to hear anything to the contrary
(to each his own but I certainly have a different opinion).
This has become much less over time, I think as he has healed from much of
the damage she installed in his psyche. He has become more willing to tell
her when her commentary to Jayn has been unhelpful. For the sake of full
disclosure this was all by telephone, but it came quickly to the point where
Jayn wouldn't speak to Granny on the phone because she didn't want to
quizzed or pushed about her reading. Now my MIL is barely in our lives, but
that is by her choice. Just because she is older doesn't make her worthy of
respect.
Any hoo, in your case I would tread carefully with your MIL, rather than
risk it turning into a situation where you are being pitted against her and
your dh. It might be useful to speak to your dh in terms of what you notice
in the interactions between his mother and your dd, keeping the focus on
your dd's reactions and always keeping your MIL's good intentions in mind.
From her pov she is only criticizing to help your dd improve, and you can
acknowledge that.
"I know Mother means well, but when she tells dd that she's doing thus and
such wrongly, I see dd wanting to escape. I wish we could get Mother to just
play with her instead. I really want them to have a happy relationship."
Is there something that your MIL loves that your dd is also interested in?
If my mother were still alive she and Jayn would just adore sewing dolly
clothes together. My MIL and Jayn share a love of making little things,
crafting. This would be the path to their connection.
The other side of this is that if you want to help your dh be kinder and
sweeter to you dd, you have to be willing to hear his criticisms of you too.
My dh is so great at seeing when I am being harsh, or inconsistent, or
wanting to keep on doing what I'm doing instead of turning my focus to Jayn.
He is great at pointing out how I am contributing the greater part to any
conflict between Jayn and me, if I can't see it.
--
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
send emails. I find I can edit myself better - but don't make every email a
critique! If your dh is away at work all day, he can become disconnected
from what is happening in the home. If it is allowable (don't get him in
trouble at work!) maybe send him some of those sweet stories as they occur.
One thing that my dh and I have done a lot, is talk about our own childhoods
and the events and feelings that were horrible - how we don't want to repeat
those with Jayn, how we don't want her to have similar feelings or memories
about us.
I found that my dh had a lot of mixed emotions about his mom. I dare say I
do also, but as in your case, his mom is the one who was continuing to
interact with our family in a difficult way, even though it was not a matter
of her being in company with our dd. I found that as willing as he was to
tell me about the unpleasant way she treated him when he was a child, he
would still get very defensive, startlingly so, if I criticized her in
certain places. For example, he was very invested in the idea that she is a
wonderful home decorator and didn't want to hear anything to the contrary
(to each his own but I certainly have a different opinion).
This has become much less over time, I think as he has healed from much of
the damage she installed in his psyche. He has become more willing to tell
her when her commentary to Jayn has been unhelpful. For the sake of full
disclosure this was all by telephone, but it came quickly to the point where
Jayn wouldn't speak to Granny on the phone because she didn't want to
quizzed or pushed about her reading. Now my MIL is barely in our lives, but
that is by her choice. Just because she is older doesn't make her worthy of
respect.
Any hoo, in your case I would tread carefully with your MIL, rather than
risk it turning into a situation where you are being pitted against her and
your dh. It might be useful to speak to your dh in terms of what you notice
in the interactions between his mother and your dd, keeping the focus on
your dd's reactions and always keeping your MIL's good intentions in mind.
From her pov she is only criticizing to help your dd improve, and you can
acknowledge that.
"I know Mother means well, but when she tells dd that she's doing thus and
such wrongly, I see dd wanting to escape. I wish we could get Mother to just
play with her instead. I really want them to have a happy relationship."
Is there something that your MIL loves that your dd is also interested in?
If my mother were still alive she and Jayn would just adore sewing dolly
clothes together. My MIL and Jayn share a love of making little things,
crafting. This would be the path to their connection.
The other side of this is that if you want to help your dh be kinder and
sweeter to you dd, you have to be willing to hear his criticisms of you too.
My dh is so great at seeing when I am being harsh, or inconsistent, or
wanting to keep on doing what I'm doing instead of turning my focus to Jayn.
He is great at pointing out how I am contributing the greater part to any
conflict between Jayn and me, if I can't see it.
--
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vidyut Kale
I used to have similar problems at home. My child is still very small and
you wouldn't think there is much to belittle, but they found stuff. Be it
him not 'developing' fast enough, or discovering his hands with his mouth,
not sleeping at night, tendency to look to one side.... it was like an
inventory of anxieties that manifested as physical manipulations,
corrections and restrictions, since he doesn't understand being told. I
believe I wrote about it here in my early days too.
I have tried a very different approach, which is not really unschooling (or
I don't know if it is), but I used a common principle of learning productive
conversation - "The <quality> in me invokes the <quality> in you." This is
also partly the power behind role modelling.
In other words, I didn't react to their intolerance by being intolerant of
their intolerance (don't know if this sounds coherent), though that was the
natural reaction being invoked in me. I started a cycle I would like to see.
I looked deep inside myself, and identified what I would like to see. I
realized that I would like an environment that was accepting, appreciative.
If I resist them, I invite resistance and perhaps increased controlling
behaviour with my son as an expression of rejection of the 'correction". If
I gift them, that is what they have to spread around.
I looked for the acceptance and appreciativeness I felt about them while
responding. Was difficult to get past the reactiveness, but not impossible,
and once I did it, I could do it again as many times as I wanted. So, one
sample conversation was, "Aai (mother), I appreciate how lovingly you are
always there for him. I can see your concern about him forming bad habits. I
am glad that you are there to look out for him. I can see how this causes
you worry. I wanted to share that I read up extensively on this subject to
find out, and I have discovered that what he is doing is a natural and
essential part of his growth and will not cause him any damage." I followed
this up with sharing a few more enabling discoveries in terms of allowing
the child freedom and the positive impact it has on their growth.
With me being so appreciative and concerned, it is a totally irrational
response to get judgmental or aggressive, so she couldn't rather than
didn't. Once she experienced that attitude being pleasant, it was more
tempting for her to be like that.
Result - Aaji (grandmom) looks on lovingly as Nisarga sucks his entire fist
noisily enough to be heard in the next room!
With the husband, one example conversation was, "Let's hurry to bed before
this little champ wakes up!" a while later, "You know, it gets exhausting
that he is up whenever he likes, but I kind of like knowing that we are
there for him no matter what. I appreciate how you can play with him
endlessly. I have no problems staying awake, and you can take care of him
when I need some time off. Together, we can give this guy freedom few kids
are lucky enough to experience." I didn't get into post-mortems of what the
problem was, but acknowledged how we were successfully stretching our
boundaries to achieve something special.
Just being open, and generous evoked that in them too, and there is very
little judgments about what Nisarga "should" do anymore. If there are,
anyone in the family is fluent to reassure anyone else that its fine if he
does what he likes. My MIL calls him her little wildflower - growing strong
and beautiful totally naturally, nourished by what is its rightful
environment - I think that's beautiful.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you wouldn't think there is much to belittle, but they found stuff. Be it
him not 'developing' fast enough, or discovering his hands with his mouth,
not sleeping at night, tendency to look to one side.... it was like an
inventory of anxieties that manifested as physical manipulations,
corrections and restrictions, since he doesn't understand being told. I
believe I wrote about it here in my early days too.
I have tried a very different approach, which is not really unschooling (or
I don't know if it is), but I used a common principle of learning productive
conversation - "The <quality> in me invokes the <quality> in you." This is
also partly the power behind role modelling.
In other words, I didn't react to their intolerance by being intolerant of
their intolerance (don't know if this sounds coherent), though that was the
natural reaction being invoked in me. I started a cycle I would like to see.
I looked deep inside myself, and identified what I would like to see. I
realized that I would like an environment that was accepting, appreciative.
If I resist them, I invite resistance and perhaps increased controlling
behaviour with my son as an expression of rejection of the 'correction". If
I gift them, that is what they have to spread around.
I looked for the acceptance and appreciativeness I felt about them while
responding. Was difficult to get past the reactiveness, but not impossible,
and once I did it, I could do it again as many times as I wanted. So, one
sample conversation was, "Aai (mother), I appreciate how lovingly you are
always there for him. I can see your concern about him forming bad habits. I
am glad that you are there to look out for him. I can see how this causes
you worry. I wanted to share that I read up extensively on this subject to
find out, and I have discovered that what he is doing is a natural and
essential part of his growth and will not cause him any damage." I followed
this up with sharing a few more enabling discoveries in terms of allowing
the child freedom and the positive impact it has on their growth.
With me being so appreciative and concerned, it is a totally irrational
response to get judgmental or aggressive, so she couldn't rather than
didn't. Once she experienced that attitude being pleasant, it was more
tempting for her to be like that.
Result - Aaji (grandmom) looks on lovingly as Nisarga sucks his entire fist
noisily enough to be heard in the next room!
With the husband, one example conversation was, "Let's hurry to bed before
this little champ wakes up!" a while later, "You know, it gets exhausting
that he is up whenever he likes, but I kind of like knowing that we are
there for him no matter what. I appreciate how you can play with him
endlessly. I have no problems staying awake, and you can take care of him
when I need some time off. Together, we can give this guy freedom few kids
are lucky enough to experience." I didn't get into post-mortems of what the
problem was, but acknowledged how we were successfully stretching our
boundaries to achieve something special.
Just being open, and generous evoked that in them too, and there is very
little judgments about what Nisarga "should" do anymore. If there are,
anyone in the family is fluent to reassure anyone else that its fine if he
does what he likes. My MIL calls him her little wildflower - growing strong
and beautiful totally naturally, nourished by what is its rightful
environment - I think that's beautiful.
Vidyut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bev
My husband works two jobs so I can be a stay at home mom... for us, we use cell phones to chat with each other when he's at work. But I see your point of keeping contact... keeps communication open, which is something we'd already talked about and why we chat through out the day. Keeps relationships strong!
And we too have a completely open/honest dialog when it comes to our childhoods! What we want and don’t want… ~*Smiles*~
Do wish you well with in-laws… we had to cut ours out! But of sociopaths… not kidding! We dealt with either being around us once every year or so when we served a purpose, or last minute back breaking labor, or when we were pawns in a bigger game they were pulling on others/each other! In a way it was a blessing to walk away, but left us with just each other. And after the childhhods we both endured, one might ask why we had anything to do with such dysfunctional people in the first place, but the bigger question for us has always been… how will we keep our home together/functioning/normal when we didn’t have a model to base it off of as children ourselves… one reason I NEVER judge others!!! We are far from perfect… hahaha
I’ve been blessed in the fact that my husband is nothing like the family he came from.. which has me scratching my head most days! Hahaha!!! Good luck on your in-laws and remember that no matter how bad things are/get… there is someone out there going through something much worse!!! CafeMom taught me that… my husband doesn’t cheat, never done drugs or even smoked, might have a drink once a year (if that), doesn’t go to nudie bars, doesn’t speed like a race car driver, and his only faults are his obsession with sports and he plays videogames three days a week. He’s a wonderful husband, amazing dad, and his home/family mean everything to him! Good out weighs the bad… try making a list of each person’s positive/negative contributions and see if they are even worth keeping around… we did! Learned when we did 2 therapy sesions for the problems others placed in our home, and chose what worked best to keep peace/serenity in our home... if
they are the problem not us, cut them out because we couldn't name one positive past what we'd wished they "could/should" be!
.~*~._.~*~._BEVERLY_.~*~._.~*~.
And we too have a completely open/honest dialog when it comes to our childhoods! What we want and don’t want… ~*Smiles*~
Do wish you well with in-laws… we had to cut ours out! But of sociopaths… not kidding! We dealt with either being around us once every year or so when we served a purpose, or last minute back breaking labor, or when we were pawns in a bigger game they were pulling on others/each other! In a way it was a blessing to walk away, but left us with just each other. And after the childhhods we both endured, one might ask why we had anything to do with such dysfunctional people in the first place, but the bigger question for us has always been… how will we keep our home together/functioning/normal when we didn’t have a model to base it off of as children ourselves… one reason I NEVER judge others!!! We are far from perfect… hahaha
I’ve been blessed in the fact that my husband is nothing like the family he came from.. which has me scratching my head most days! Hahaha!!! Good luck on your in-laws and remember that no matter how bad things are/get… there is someone out there going through something much worse!!! CafeMom taught me that… my husband doesn’t cheat, never done drugs or even smoked, might have a drink once a year (if that), doesn’t go to nudie bars, doesn’t speed like a race car driver, and his only faults are his obsession with sports and he plays videogames three days a week. He’s a wonderful husband, amazing dad, and his home/family mean everything to him! Good out weighs the bad… try making a list of each person’s positive/negative contributions and see if they are even worth keeping around… we did! Learned when we did 2 therapy sesions for the problems others placed in our home, and chose what worked best to keep peace/serenity in our home... if
they are the problem not us, cut them out because we couldn't name one positive past what we'd wished they "could/should" be!
.~*~._.~*~._BEVERLY_.~*~._.~*~.
--- On Mon, 2/22/10, Robyn Coburn <dezignarob@...> wrote:
From: Robyn Coburn <dezignarob@...>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Intro and a question about family attitudes
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 8:19 AM
Sometimes what has worked much better around here than talking at all, is to
send emails. I find I can edit myself better - but don't make every email a
critique! If your dh is away at work all day, he can become disconnected
from what is happening in the home. If it is allowable (don't get him in
trouble at work!) maybe send him some of those sweet stories as they occur.
One thing that my dh and I have done a lot, is talk about our own childhoods
and the events and feelings that were horrible - how we don't want to repeat
those with Jayn, how we don't want her to have similar feelings or memories
about us.
I found that my dh had a lot of mixed emotions about his mom. I dare say I
do also, but as in your case, his mom is the one who was continuing to
interact with our family in a difficult way, even though it was not a matter
of her being in company with our dd. I found that as willing as he was to
tell me about the unpleasant way she treated him when he was a child, he
would still get very defensive, startlingly so, if I criticized her in
certain places. For example, he was very invested in the idea that she is a
wonderful home decorator and didn't want to hear anything to the contrary
(to each his own but I certainly have a different opinion).
This has become much less over time, I think as he has healed from much of
the damage she installed in his psyche. He has become more willing to tell
her when her commentary to Jayn has been unhelpful. For the sake of full
disclosure this was all by telephone, but it came quickly to the point where
Jayn wouldn't speak to Granny on the phone because she didn't want to
quizzed or pushed about her reading. Now my MIL is barely in our lives, but
that is by her choice. Just because she is older doesn't make her worthy of
respect.
Any hoo, in your case I would tread carefully with your MIL, rather than
risk it turning into a situation where you are being pitted against her and
your dh. It might be useful to speak to your dh in terms of what you notice
in the interactions between his mother and your dd, keeping the focus on
your dd's reactions and always keeping your MIL's good intentions in mind.
From her pov she is only criticizing to help your dd improve, and you can
acknowledge that.
"I know Mother means well, but when she tells dd that she's doing thus and
such wrongly, I see dd wanting to escape. I wish we could get Mother to just
play with her instead. I really want them to have a happy relationship."
Is there something that your MIL loves that your dd is also interested in?
If my mother were still alive she and Jayn would just adore sewing dolly
clothes together. My MIL and Jayn share a love of making little things,
crafting. This would be the path to their connection.
The other side of this is that if you want to help your dh be kinder and
sweeter to you dd, you have to be willing to hear his criticisms of you too.
My dh is so great at seeing when I am being harsh, or inconsistent, or
wanting to keep on doing what I'm doing instead of turning my focus to Jayn.
He is great at pointing out how I am contributing the greater part to any
conflict between Jayn and me, if I can't see it.
--
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
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Yahoo! Groups Links
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Bev
~*~Smiles~*~... sounds like what I saw on Dr. Phil this week... easy/simple problems faced. I wished the things my husband and I faced were that simple. And you are truly blessed to have people that care about your kids that much, play an active role, and think in a positive direction! And great ways to disarm a conversation and still validate the person's concerns. Really good examples...
And looks like you try to keep a positive sense/feeling in the home... much like me. ~*Smiles*~... I started out simple, with compliments, finding the positive/good qualities, and reflecting that in daily life… while trying to not have an “everybody gets a trophy” mentality. I make it a point to take notice of all positives in our home, like last night when hubby was playing with the kids, on the floor, on their level… or story time each night… and all those things that will make a difference in the long run! The real foundation of this family… the things you cannot “buy”!
.~*~._.~*~._BEVERLY_.~*~._.~*~.
And looks like you try to keep a positive sense/feeling in the home... much like me. ~*Smiles*~... I started out simple, with compliments, finding the positive/good qualities, and reflecting that in daily life… while trying to not have an “everybody gets a trophy” mentality. I make it a point to take notice of all positives in our home, like last night when hubby was playing with the kids, on the floor, on their level… or story time each night… and all those things that will make a difference in the long run! The real foundation of this family… the things you cannot “buy”!
.~*~._.~*~._BEVERLY_.~*~._.~*~.
--- On Mon, 2/22/10, Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@...> wrote:
From: Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@...>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Intro and a question about family attitudes
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 9:17 AM
I used to have similar problems at home. My child is still very small and
you wouldn't think there is much to belittle, but they found stuff. Be it
him not 'developing' fast enough, or discovering his hands with his mouth,
not sleeping at night, tendency to look to one side.... it was like an
inventory of anxieties that manifested as physical manipulations,
corrections and restrictions, since he doesn't understand being told. I
believe I wrote about it here in my early days too.
I have tried a very different approach, which is not really unschooling (or
I don't know if it is), but I used a common principle of learning productive
conversation - "The <quality> in me invokes the <quality> in you." This is
also partly the power behind role modelling.
In other words, I didn't react to their intolerance by being intolerant of
their intolerance (don't know if this sounds coherent), though that was the
natural reaction being invoked in me. I started a cycle I would like to see.
I looked deep inside myself, and identified what I would like to see. I
realized that I would like an environment that was accepting, appreciative.
If I resist them, I invite resistance and perhaps increased controlling
behaviour with my son as an expression of rejection of the 'correction". If
I gift them, that is what they have to spread around.
I looked for the acceptance and appreciativeness I felt about them while
responding. Was difficult to get past the reactiveness, but not impossible,
and once I did it, I could do it again as many times as I wanted. So, one
sample conversation was, "Aai (mother), I appreciate how lovingly you are
always there for him. I can see your concern about him forming bad habits. I
am glad that you are there to look out for him. I can see how this causes
you worry. I wanted to share that I read up extensively on this subject to
find out, and I have discovered that what he is doing is a natural and
essential part of his growth and will not cause him any damage." I followed
this up with sharing a few more enabling discoveries in terms of allowing
the child freedom and the positive impact it has on their growth.
With me being so appreciative and concerned, it is a totally irrational
response to get judgmental or aggressive, so she couldn't rather than
didn't. Once she experienced that attitude being pleasant, it was more
tempting for her to be like that.
Result - Aaji (grandmom) looks on lovingly as Nisarga sucks his entire fist
noisily enough to be heard in the next room!
With the husband, one example conversation was, "Let's hurry to bed before
this little champ wakes up!" a while later, "You know, it gets exhausting
that he is up whenever he likes, but I kind of like knowing that we are
there for him no matter what. I appreciate how you can play with him
endlessly. I have no problems staying awake, and you can take care of him
when I need some time off. Together, we can give this guy freedom few kids
are lucky enough to experience." I didn't get into post-mortems of what the
problem was, but acknowledged how we were successfully stretching our
boundaries to achieve something special.
Just being open, and generous evoked that in them too, and there is very
little judgments about what Nisarga "should" do anymore. If there are,
anyone in the family is fluent to reassure anyone else that its fine if he
does what he likes. My MIL calls him her little wildflower - growing strong
and beautiful totally naturally, nourished by what is its rightful
environment - I think that's beautiful.
Vidyut
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Yahoo! Groups Links
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Jenny Cyphers
***CafeMom taught me that…***
CafeMom didn't teach you anything, it's an online forum, it can't do that. You learned through reading and writing and observation. It's the same way in which unschooling works, kids learn, humans learn.
*** my husband doesn’t cheat, never done drugs or even smoked, might have a drink once a year (if that), doesn’t go to nudie bars, doesn’t speed like a race car driver, and his only faults are his obsession with sports and he plays videogames three days a week. He’s a wonderful husband, amazing dad, and his home/family mean everything to him!***
Your values are clear from your list, but I'll just say, that I've known really great husbands and fathers, who DO drink sometimes, and smoke, and speed in their cars, or race them for real, and even some that go to bars with naked ladies. I've known even more husbands and fathers that are enthusiastic about sports and video games and share their love of those things with their children and partner, who in turn relish in their dad/partner's enthusiasm for those things.
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CafeMom didn't teach you anything, it's an online forum, it can't do that. You learned through reading and writing and observation. It's the same way in which unschooling works, kids learn, humans learn.
*** my husband doesn’t cheat, never done drugs or even smoked, might have a drink once a year (if that), doesn’t go to nudie bars, doesn’t speed like a race car driver, and his only faults are his obsession with sports and he plays videogames three days a week. He’s a wonderful husband, amazing dad, and his home/family mean everything to him!***
Your values are clear from your list, but I'll just say, that I've known really great husbands and fathers, who DO drink sometimes, and smoke, and speed in their cars, or race them for real, and even some that go to bars with naked ladies. I've known even more husbands and fathers that are enthusiastic about sports and video games and share their love of those things with their children and partner, who in turn relish in their dad/partner's enthusiasm for those things.
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Vidyut Kale
*And you are truly blessed to have people that care about your kids that
Their ideas of caring are vastly different from what we call caring here. My
in-laws aren't very positive people, as they have many beliefs that are very
rigid and based on notions of "correctness" and "religious rituals".
This little guy is incapable of really bothering anyone or of any intention
at all, other than self-discovery, yet I have to deal with religious rituals
that leave him traumatized and crying inconsolably, trying to put black
spots on his face and body to ward off the evil eye, attempts to feed him
cow milk, water when my intention was to breastfeed, hired massage woman who
didn't care about his discomfort, constant corrections of how he kept his
head or thumb sucking, attributing his crying to manipulate people and thus
punishable by scolding (scolding a distressed baby!), feeding formula
because he was born underweight, letting him cry because it is 'good' for
him..... the list is longer than this guy is tall.
You can read the 'evidence' in the archives here too from a time when I was
frustrated with the MIL forcibly turning Nisarga's head each time he tracked
the sound of the TV and some other things I forget. I have to keep working
at it. I have to keep chipping at negativity each time I encounter it. I
have been lucky so far, and I respect my MIL and husband for being able to
absorb new ideas.
I am not looking to 'fix' anyone. As long as I am doing my best to ensure my
child's well being, that is the scope of my objective. If their lives become
better, I am glad, but that is not my aim. For that matter, I still have to
endure much controlling behaviour from my MIL.
I didn't talk about that because that didn't help anything, or so I thought.
Now I share this to share the hope that nothing is impossible. My problems
are not as complex as yours, but are the problems of any two people alike?
Take what possibilities you see. It will work if you keep at it.
I remind myself that I have to be like water. I can't allow myself to be
blocked and stagnate, because I have committed to flowing for my child. So I
keep going, and stop expecting. Each time something comes up, I chip away at
it how I can, change directions, change style, change force, so something or
the other. To expect it to be solved is too overwhelming and paralyzes me. I
can do these small, nice things more easily, because they are not resisted
and keep encouraging me with small, specific results.
Good Luck to all of us.
Vidyut
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> much, play an active role, and think in a positive direction! And greatThank you. I am. It wasn't always like this.
> ways to disarm a conversation and still validate the person's concerns.
> Really good examples... *
Their ideas of caring are vastly different from what we call caring here. My
in-laws aren't very positive people, as they have many beliefs that are very
rigid and based on notions of "correctness" and "religious rituals".
This little guy is incapable of really bothering anyone or of any intention
at all, other than self-discovery, yet I have to deal with religious rituals
that leave him traumatized and crying inconsolably, trying to put black
spots on his face and body to ward off the evil eye, attempts to feed him
cow milk, water when my intention was to breastfeed, hired massage woman who
didn't care about his discomfort, constant corrections of how he kept his
head or thumb sucking, attributing his crying to manipulate people and thus
punishable by scolding (scolding a distressed baby!), feeding formula
because he was born underweight, letting him cry because it is 'good' for
him..... the list is longer than this guy is tall.
You can read the 'evidence' in the archives here too from a time when I was
frustrated with the MIL forcibly turning Nisarga's head each time he tracked
the sound of the TV and some other things I forget. I have to keep working
at it. I have to keep chipping at negativity each time I encounter it. I
have been lucky so far, and I respect my MIL and husband for being able to
absorb new ideas.
I am not looking to 'fix' anyone. As long as I am doing my best to ensure my
child's well being, that is the scope of my objective. If their lives become
better, I am glad, but that is not my aim. For that matter, I still have to
endure much controlling behaviour from my MIL.
I didn't talk about that because that didn't help anything, or so I thought.
Now I share this to share the hope that nothing is impossible. My problems
are not as complex as yours, but are the problems of any two people alike?
Take what possibilities you see. It will work if you keep at it.
I remind myself that I have to be like water. I can't allow myself to be
blocked and stagnate, because I have committed to flowing for my child. So I
keep going, and stop expecting. Each time something comes up, I chip away at
it how I can, change directions, change style, change force, so something or
the other. To expect it to be solved is too overwhelming and paralyzes me. I
can do these small, nice things more easily, because they are not resisted
and keep encouraging me with small, specific results.
Good Luck to all of us.
Vidyut
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thecugals
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
--I used to talk to my husband about how healing it was for me to be
nicer to Kirby than my mom had been to me. I would tell him the sweet
stories of the day, about times I had thought of saying or doing one
thing, but had thought a bit and done another, and how happy the kids
were, and how good it made me feel, too.--
Same thing happened in our family recently. My husband and I were making dinner together when I said, "You know, I just have to say how proud I am of myself for the way I talked with Calvin today." Then I retold the scenario in which my husband and I both would normally react irritably. I told him how I had been wanting to be different, and how I finally managed it, and how positive the whole exchange was. Dh was impressed and said he wanted to work on the same thing. Next thing I know, I'm witnessing him interacting with our son in a potentially explosive situation and handling it better than I would have.
Beth
Sandra Dodd
-=-Dh was impressed and said he wanted to work on the same thing. Next
thing I know, I'm witnessing him interacting with our son in a
potentially explosive situation and handling it better than I would
have.-=-
This happened at my house too. It took Keith a couple of years longer
to "get it," but he was better than I was at it in no time.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
thing I know, I'm witnessing him interacting with our son in a
potentially explosive situation and handling it better than I would
have.-=-
This happened at my house too. It took Keith a couple of years longer
to "get it," but he was better than I was at it in no time.
Sandra
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Camille
> Sometimes what has worked much better around here than talking at all, is to send emails. I find I can edit myself better - but don't make every email a critique! If your dh is away at work all day, he can become disconnected from what is happening in the home. <Sometimes email is the only way we can communicate. Dh works offshore, so he is gone for weeks at a time. (Although when he's home, it's all.day.long for weeks.) I realized recently that I simply don't talk about B enough and about the day-to-day stuff for him to really have that connect that many fathers have. When he is home, it's completely different and we often focus so much on what DH wants or doesn't want to do that B takes a back seat to it all. I have begun to change this focus back to B, (especially since I stopped forcing math pages down her throat. lol) and letting him join the fun when he wants. But he's gone again now, so I can breathe a little easier and focus completely on B.
I recently gave B her own email address for talking to family and stuff. I was thinking of letting her email DH whenever she wants. I also need to get my blog back up and running and actually write down the stuff we do so DH can read about our day even when we can't talk.
> Any hoo, in your case I would tread carefully with your MIL, rather than risk it turning into a situation where you are being pitted against her and your dh. <Ironically, DH has very little patience for his mother. Not because she is mean but rather because she is soooo sweet and sooo attentive. He feels like she's not treating him like an adult much of the time. She absolutely loves me. In fact, I think if I told her straight out what I was thinking/feeling she might actually listen. The more I think about the issue with her, the more I think it's no problem at all. We had dinner this evening and I concentrated hard on not letting her make a big deal out of B's silliness.
I'm hoping the answer to all of this will simply be in changing my own attitudes and behaviors and then diffusing any tense situations as much as possible by diverting the attention of the adult and soothing the hurt feelings B may feel. That and time.
Sandra Dodd
-=-I realized recently that I simply don't talk about B enough and
about the day-to-day stuff for him to really have that connect that
many fathers have.-=-
A blog with photos might be a good way to share interesting things
with him, photos of your daughter, and also something for your mother
in law to look at!
Sandra
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about the day-to-day stuff for him to really have that connect that
many fathers have.-=-
A blog with photos might be a good way to share interesting things
with him, photos of your daughter, and also something for your mother
in law to look at!
Sandra
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Glenda
---A blog with photos might be a good way to share interesting things
with him, photos of your daughter, and also something for your mother
in law to look at!---
Also consider utilizing YouTube! That might be especially nice when your hubby is working away from home, because he'll get to hear in addition to seeing. You can set up the account parameters so the videos are not made public (to the YouTube general public, I mean).
Glenda
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with him, photos of your daughter, and also something for your mother
in law to look at!---
Also consider utilizing YouTube! That might be especially nice when your hubby is working away from home, because he'll get to hear in addition to seeing. You can set up the account parameters so the videos are not made public (to the YouTube general public, I mean).
Glenda
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Sandra Dodd
-=-
Also consider utilizing YouTube! That might be especially nice when
your hubby is working away from home, because he'll get to hear in
addition to seeing. You can set up the account parameters so the
videos are not made public (to the YouTube general public, I mean). -=-
Blogs can be made private too.
My husband, Keith, can't see any Youtube from work, but he can see the
videos uploaded directly from the computer to Blogger/blogspot.com.
Not if they're embedded from Youtube, but I can upload short videos
straight to the blog.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Also consider utilizing YouTube! That might be especially nice when
your hubby is working away from home, because he'll get to hear in
addition to seeing. You can set up the account parameters so the
videos are not made public (to the YouTube general public, I mean). -=-
Blogs can be made private too.
My husband, Keith, can't see any Youtube from work, but he can see the
videos uploaded directly from the computer to Blogger/blogspot.com.
Not if they're embedded from Youtube, but I can upload short videos
straight to the blog.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
-=-Dh was impressed and said he wanted to work on the same thing. Next
thing I know, I'm witnessing him interacting with our son in a
potentially explosive situation and handling it better than I would have.-=-
Same here.. I wouldn't say Brian totally gets unschooling, however he is
ever so much more patient and in the moment than I am. He tends to be that
way in calm moments. And I know he will get unschooling mainly because he
mostly wants to most of the time these days. He has always wanted Karl to
homeschool, and the motives for that are changing to responses of how great
it is for Karl as opposed to reactions for warding off how bad school might
be for him.
~Katherine
thing I know, I'm witnessing him interacting with our son in a
potentially explosive situation and handling it better than I would have.-=-
Same here.. I wouldn't say Brian totally gets unschooling, however he is
ever so much more patient and in the moment than I am. He tends to be that
way in calm moments. And I know he will get unschooling mainly because he
mostly wants to most of the time these days. He has always wanted Karl to
homeschool, and the motives for that are changing to responses of how great
it is for Karl as opposed to reactions for warding off how bad school might
be for him.
~Katherine
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> This happened at my house too. It took Keith a couple of years longer
> to "get it," but he was better than I was at it in no time.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
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Camille
I just wanted to thank everyone for their responses. It gave me a lot to think about. I've discussed a few of these things with DH, and am making an effort to both share with him the seemingly mundane tasks of the day in a sparkly way, as well as making sure he and B get to talk to each other whenever possible. They've been emailing back and forth which is new and pretty cool. (not to mention helping with spelling, sentence structure, etc, etc)
I haven't gotten into unschooling with him yet, mostly because he's going to have to go through deschooling with us a bit. Luckily, we actually will be on vacation right after he gets home, so we'll just have to work on the respecting each other (B included obviously) and then we can talk about unschooling as an extension of that. To a man who dropped out of High School in order to work in the real world, I think it might just appeal to him. His biggest concern has always been the old socialization thing and we've got that covered. :)
I've had to be...stealthy...with MIL a few times. She would start to say something that would make B feel bad/stupid/unloved and I had to interject with patience and understanding. Which I'm hoping helped MIL realize what she was doing.
Anyway, Thanks everyone for your help. :)
I haven't gotten into unschooling with him yet, mostly because he's going to have to go through deschooling with us a bit. Luckily, we actually will be on vacation right after he gets home, so we'll just have to work on the respecting each other (B included obviously) and then we can talk about unschooling as an extension of that. To a man who dropped out of High School in order to work in the real world, I think it might just appeal to him. His biggest concern has always been the old socialization thing and we've got that covered. :)
I've had to be...stealthy...with MIL a few times. She would start to say something that would make B feel bad/stupid/unloved and I had to interject with patience and understanding. Which I'm hoping helped MIL realize what she was doing.
Anyway, Thanks everyone for your help. :)