Helping kids through times of conflict
Kathryn
Hello All,
My eldest two Mia (8) and Jude (5) are arguing a lot of late. It gets heated pretty quickly, and yelling/abuse almost always results, followed (sometimes) with physical blows. I will step in as soon as I sense a difference of opinion, and try to help them problem solve, however, they appear to have absolutley No patience or desire to solve their quarrels. I would go so far as to say they actually Want the conflict. It seems they will argue over the smallest of issues, just as an excuse to cut the other down. Jude certainly has a short fuse and is the first to explode, however, Mia's fuse is starting to shorten in frustration to all the conflict they are experiencing. I have explained to Mia that it is of Great help to me if she could 'give in' to Jude's demands; show him kindness and (hopefully) in return, he will reciprocate. I kinda thought that if I teamed up with her in an effort to 'calm the savage beast', she would maybe be able to step out of the situation and see possible solutions to the conflict, as well as gain a sense of - I don't know - partnership (?) with me. I'm finding it hard to put my intentions into words, so I hope this is understood ;-) Unfortunately, it all seems to have back-fired. Today, Mia yelled at me that she was 'sick of making life easier for Jude' after I insisted that she let Jude swing on the hammock first to stop him from lashing out at her verbally and physically. Initially, I tried to reason with her that he is younger and it would make life easier for all if we just let him have a turn first, to keep the peace. Much to my dismay, she didn't want to partner up with me on this, and lost her temper with me. It was then that I insisted she get off. I honestly couldn't see any other option, as I was already standing between the two blocking punches/agression from Jude. Mia hopped off the hammock in a fit of rage. The injustice she felt was clear. Fair enough. How can I handle this better? Thanks in advance.
KathrynD
x
My eldest two Mia (8) and Jude (5) are arguing a lot of late. It gets heated pretty quickly, and yelling/abuse almost always results, followed (sometimes) with physical blows. I will step in as soon as I sense a difference of opinion, and try to help them problem solve, however, they appear to have absolutley No patience or desire to solve their quarrels. I would go so far as to say they actually Want the conflict. It seems they will argue over the smallest of issues, just as an excuse to cut the other down. Jude certainly has a short fuse and is the first to explode, however, Mia's fuse is starting to shorten in frustration to all the conflict they are experiencing. I have explained to Mia that it is of Great help to me if she could 'give in' to Jude's demands; show him kindness and (hopefully) in return, he will reciprocate. I kinda thought that if I teamed up with her in an effort to 'calm the savage beast', she would maybe be able to step out of the situation and see possible solutions to the conflict, as well as gain a sense of - I don't know - partnership (?) with me. I'm finding it hard to put my intentions into words, so I hope this is understood ;-) Unfortunately, it all seems to have back-fired. Today, Mia yelled at me that she was 'sick of making life easier for Jude' after I insisted that she let Jude swing on the hammock first to stop him from lashing out at her verbally and physically. Initially, I tried to reason with her that he is younger and it would make life easier for all if we just let him have a turn first, to keep the peace. Much to my dismay, she didn't want to partner up with me on this, and lost her temper with me. It was then that I insisted she get off. I honestly couldn't see any other option, as I was already standing between the two blocking punches/agression from Jude. Mia hopped off the hammock in a fit of rage. The injustice she felt was clear. Fair enough. How can I handle this better? Thanks in advance.
KathrynD
x
Sandra Dodd
-=- I would go so far as to say they actually Want the conflict. -=-
Get out of the house. Leave town (take the kids <g>). Do something
big and active and in neutral territory. Not the nearest park. Not
the restaurant you usually go to. A place they've never been, to do
something memorable.
Your description of the moods and situations sounded like crowded
conditions and cabin fever. I could be wrong.
-=- Much to my dismay, she didn't want to partner up with me on this,
and lost her temper with me. It was then that I insisted she get off.
I honestly couldn't see any other option, as I was already standing
between the two blocking punches/agression from Jude. -=-
It's not "partnering up" if there's still an adversary. She's
feeling a need to be first, have a longer turn, have something
special. When she doesn't have that, she loses. You're the kind of
"partner" who betrayed her, she might be thinking.
When my kids were that way, I'd speak the side of the other kid.
Still. Holly was asking me why Marty was being so mean to her. I
said "I think he might feel..." and I spoke of his frustrations and
irritations in specific terms about things that have gone on lately in
their lives.
Yesterday they hung out for hours, laughing, finding the perfect new
ring tones for their phones, looking at music videos, getting along
wonderfully.
I didn't try to make Marty do or say anything. I left him alone, but
I tried to help Holly see his point of view.
I made one small mention to him, just kind of in passing, that Holly
was feeling like he didn't like her. And I left it. Because I knew
he was indeed kind of cranky with her. Not about anything she had
done that she could apologize for or undo. Just about her being all
bouncy-bouncy like Tigger and telling stories and being effusive.
There might have been more, but it wasn't really any of my business.
I was just putting the mom-touch on pointing out that things could be
better if they would back down from pressing their points.
They needed time and space, more than anything.
It's easier because they're older.
When they were younger, I would try to get "the loser" (the more
unhappy kid) out of the house so the others could play their video
games (swing in their hammocks or whatever) and they had time to
recover and think.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Get out of the house. Leave town (take the kids <g>). Do something
big and active and in neutral territory. Not the nearest park. Not
the restaurant you usually go to. A place they've never been, to do
something memorable.
Your description of the moods and situations sounded like crowded
conditions and cabin fever. I could be wrong.
-=- Much to my dismay, she didn't want to partner up with me on this,
and lost her temper with me. It was then that I insisted she get off.
I honestly couldn't see any other option, as I was already standing
between the two blocking punches/agression from Jude. -=-
It's not "partnering up" if there's still an adversary. She's
feeling a need to be first, have a longer turn, have something
special. When she doesn't have that, she loses. You're the kind of
"partner" who betrayed her, she might be thinking.
When my kids were that way, I'd speak the side of the other kid.
Still. Holly was asking me why Marty was being so mean to her. I
said "I think he might feel..." and I spoke of his frustrations and
irritations in specific terms about things that have gone on lately in
their lives.
Yesterday they hung out for hours, laughing, finding the perfect new
ring tones for their phones, looking at music videos, getting along
wonderfully.
I didn't try to make Marty do or say anything. I left him alone, but
I tried to help Holly see his point of view.
I made one small mention to him, just kind of in passing, that Holly
was feeling like he didn't like her. And I left it. Because I knew
he was indeed kind of cranky with her. Not about anything she had
done that she could apologize for or undo. Just about her being all
bouncy-bouncy like Tigger and telling stories and being effusive.
There might have been more, but it wasn't really any of my business.
I was just putting the mom-touch on pointing out that things could be
better if they would back down from pressing their points.
They needed time and space, more than anything.
It's easier because they're older.
When they were younger, I would try to get "the loser" (the more
unhappy kid) out of the house so the others could play their video
games (swing in their hammocks or whatever) and they had time to
recover and think.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Su Penn
On Feb 21, 2010, at 8:26 AM, Kathryn wrote:
They both said no, that they like it better when they didn't fight.
I said that I also preferred it if we didn't fight.
Sometime not long after that, they were starting to get into a fight, and I was having that "oh, here we go again" reaction that makes it so hard to respond lovingly and gracefully. But I remembered that conversation in the car, and I said loudly, "Raise your hand if you don't want to fight!" and put my hand up. Eric, who is older, put his hand up right away. Carl did, too, after I repeated it a couple of times.
So there we all were, with our hands in the air, agreeing that we didn't want to to fight. That is a powerful starting point for problem-solving! Getting our hands in the air also broke the momentum of the two of them yelling or kicking at each other or whatever they were doing, and we were able to talk.
We continued to use this for some months; we haven't done it in awhile, I guess that rough patch passed. I had forgotten about it until I heard your question.
I also talked to the boys, _not_ in the heat of the moment, about how very much I do not want to be reduced, as a parent, to making the decisions for them and being bossy (like you telling Mia to get out of the hammock). They also really like it when I don't tell them what to do, so sometimes I can say, "Guys! Listen! Right now I'm feeling so frustrated that the only thing I can think of to do is say, You go to this room and You go to that room if you can't get along! But I don't want to do that! What can we do instead?" They are very glad to help me not be bossy, because nobody's happy when the Mama gets bossy.
I thank Carl for his flexibility, but I also check in with him: "Is this what you really want to do?" I don't want him to give away so much that he feels deprived or unheard. My partner and I talk to both boys about the importance of expressing their wishes fully (we call this saying "what is your 100%"--if you could have 100% of what you want, what would it be?) I talked about the 100% on a website once in answer to a question about relationships; it's a tool we use all the time even among us grownups. Here is the link: http://ask.metafilter.com/137148/What-clever-relationship-hacks-have-you-come-up-with#1960336
If you made a decision on Mia's behalf that it is her job to be more flexible, no wonder she's feeling burdened by that! That's a lot to expect of a child. A friend of mine was just talking to me about how hard it was for her growing up to have her parents always putting the burden on her, as the oldest, to take responsibility for being a role model, and even to be responsible for her younger sisters' behavior ("you knew she'd do X if you did that..."). It sounds like you're putting Mia in that position.
It sounds like maybe you could benefit from some pro-active problem-solving with the kids when you're not in the middle of things. Making a plan in advance for how you'll handle things when they come up is _huge_. Especially if the kids know that they can also remind you of the agreement if you start to violate it (my kids sometimes will say to me, "Mom, I think you need to turn your patience knob up!"). It helps you become allies.
I don't know if it applies to your kids, really, but I found the book The Explosive Child very helpful--possibly the most useful tool I found--for creating a more harmonious home with Eric. It talks about techniques for problem-solving before the crisis hits, though it's certainly not the only resource for that. It's just fresh in my mind because I recommended it to a friend recently. Siblings Without Rivalry might be another good resource for you,if you haven't read it already, though I think I remember having to read past some aspects of it and interpret them through my own unschooly lens.
I've been lurking on the list for awhile; I used to be more active.
Su
mom of Eric, 8; Carl, almost 6; and Yehva, 2.5
> My eldest two Mia (8) and Jude (5) are arguing a lot of late. It gets heated pretty quickly, and yelling/abuse almost always results, followed (sometimes) with physical blows. I will step in as soon as I sense a difference of opinion, and try to help them problem solve, however, they appear to have absolutley No patience or desire to solve their quarrels. I would go so far as to say they actually Want the conflict.Have you asked them if this is true? About a year ago, my two oldest--7 and 4 at the time--were getting caught up in a lot of conflicts over small things. One day in the car, I asked them, "Do you want to fight?"
They both said no, that they like it better when they didn't fight.
I said that I also preferred it if we didn't fight.
Sometime not long after that, they were starting to get into a fight, and I was having that "oh, here we go again" reaction that makes it so hard to respond lovingly and gracefully. But I remembered that conversation in the car, and I said loudly, "Raise your hand if you don't want to fight!" and put my hand up. Eric, who is older, put his hand up right away. Carl did, too, after I repeated it a couple of times.
So there we all were, with our hands in the air, agreeing that we didn't want to to fight. That is a powerful starting point for problem-solving! Getting our hands in the air also broke the momentum of the two of them yelling or kicking at each other or whatever they were doing, and we were able to talk.
We continued to use this for some months; we haven't done it in awhile, I guess that rough patch passed. I had forgotten about it until I heard your question.
I also talked to the boys, _not_ in the heat of the moment, about how very much I do not want to be reduced, as a parent, to making the decisions for them and being bossy (like you telling Mia to get out of the hammock). They also really like it when I don't tell them what to do, so sometimes I can say, "Guys! Listen! Right now I'm feeling so frustrated that the only thing I can think of to do is say, You go to this room and You go to that room if you can't get along! But I don't want to do that! What can we do instead?" They are very glad to help me not be bossy, because nobody's happy when the Mama gets bossy.
> Jude certainly has a short fuse and is the first to explode, however, Mia's fuse is starting to shorten in frustration to all the conflict they are experiencing. I have explained to Mia that it is of Great help to me if she could 'give in' to Jude's demands; show him kindness and (hopefully) in return, he will reciprocate.This is tricky. I keep a close eye on it for Carl, because although he is younger than Eric, it is easier for him to switch gears, easier to accept an alternative. A lot of conflicts end up resolved by Carl saying, "OK, Eric, you can go first," or something similar. I don't want Carl to feel like it's his job to placate Eric (who can be explosive) or to help me avoid the explosions; at the same time, Carl's flexibility is a gift and a tool for avoiding explosions.
I thank Carl for his flexibility, but I also check in with him: "Is this what you really want to do?" I don't want him to give away so much that he feels deprived or unheard. My partner and I talk to both boys about the importance of expressing their wishes fully (we call this saying "what is your 100%"--if you could have 100% of what you want, what would it be?) I talked about the 100% on a website once in answer to a question about relationships; it's a tool we use all the time even among us grownups. Here is the link: http://ask.metafilter.com/137148/What-clever-relationship-hacks-have-you-come-up-with#1960336
If you made a decision on Mia's behalf that it is her job to be more flexible, no wonder she's feeling burdened by that! That's a lot to expect of a child. A friend of mine was just talking to me about how hard it was for her growing up to have her parents always putting the burden on her, as the oldest, to take responsibility for being a role model, and even to be responsible for her younger sisters' behavior ("you knew she'd do X if you did that..."). It sounds like you're putting Mia in that position.
It sounds like maybe you could benefit from some pro-active problem-solving with the kids when you're not in the middle of things. Making a plan in advance for how you'll handle things when they come up is _huge_. Especially if the kids know that they can also remind you of the agreement if you start to violate it (my kids sometimes will say to me, "Mom, I think you need to turn your patience knob up!"). It helps you become allies.
I don't know if it applies to your kids, really, but I found the book The Explosive Child very helpful--possibly the most useful tool I found--for creating a more harmonious home with Eric. It talks about techniques for problem-solving before the crisis hits, though it's certainly not the only resource for that. It's just fresh in my mind because I recommended it to a friend recently. Siblings Without Rivalry might be another good resource for you,if you haven't read it already, though I think I remember having to read past some aspects of it and interpret them through my own unschooly lens.
I've been lurking on the list for awhile; I used to be more active.
Su
mom of Eric, 8; Carl, almost 6; and Yehva, 2.5
Pam Sorooshian
<<I don't know if it applies to your kids, really, but I found the book The
Explosive Child very helpful--possibly the most useful tool I found--for
creating a more harmonious home with Eric. It talks about techniques for
problem-solving before the crisis hits, though it's certainly not the only
resource for that. It's just fresh in my mind because I recommended it to a
friend recently. Siblings Without Rivalry might be another good resource for
you,if you haven't read it already, though I think I remember having to read
past some aspects of it and interpret them through my own unschooly lens.
I've been lurking on the list for awhile; I used to be more active.
Su>>
Hi Su!! GREAT to see you! I also really liked The Explosive Child - got a
lot of good ideas from it. NOT a perfectly unschoolish book, so people
should read it as an idea book and take what makes sense for your own
family.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Explosive Child very helpful--possibly the most useful tool I found--for
creating a more harmonious home with Eric. It talks about techniques for
problem-solving before the crisis hits, though it's certainly not the only
resource for that. It's just fresh in my mind because I recommended it to a
friend recently. Siblings Without Rivalry might be another good resource for
you,if you haven't read it already, though I think I remember having to read
past some aspects of it and interpret them through my own unschooly lens.
I've been lurking on the list for awhile; I used to be more active.
Su>>
Hi Su!! GREAT to see you! I also really liked The Explosive Child - got a
lot of good ideas from it. NOT a perfectly unschoolish book, so people
should read it as an idea book and take what makes sense for your own
family.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyla Wolfenstein
ross greene has a web site too, now:
http://www.livesinthebalance.org/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.livesinthebalance.org/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John and Amanda Slater
________________________________
From: Su Penn <su@...>
I don't know if it applies to your kids, really, but I found the book The Explosive Child very helpful--possibly the most useful tool I found--for creating a more harmonious home with Eric. It talks about techniques for problem-solving before the crisis hits, though it's certainly not the only resource for that.\
***
The Highly Sensitive Child by Elaine Aron can be useful too. It really helped me find all the little things that were bothering Eli. When we were able to resolve some of the little things, some of the big things went away on their own.
My boys have told me they don't fight when they are happy. Since then I have focused more on little things to make them happy (favorite movie, song, cookie, book, outing, or just time with a parent) and less on the actual arguing.
Amanda
Eli 8, Samuel 7
Su
mom of Eric, 8; Carl, almost 6; and Yehva, 2.5
(I can't believe your little elf baby is 2.5!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Su Penn <su@...>
I don't know if it applies to your kids, really, but I found the book The Explosive Child very helpful--possibly the most useful tool I found--for creating a more harmonious home with Eric. It talks about techniques for problem-solving before the crisis hits, though it's certainly not the only resource for that.\
***
The Highly Sensitive Child by Elaine Aron can be useful too. It really helped me find all the little things that were bothering Eli. When we were able to resolve some of the little things, some of the big things went away on their own.
My boys have told me they don't fight when they are happy. Since then I have focused more on little things to make them happy (favorite movie, song, cookie, book, outing, or just time with a parent) and less on the actual arguing.
Amanda
Eli 8, Samuel 7
Su
mom of Eric, 8; Carl, almost 6; and Yehva, 2.5
(I can't believe your little elf baby is 2.5!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Claire
Hi Kathryn,
Did you post some time ago about a traumatic visit to the vet in which you asked Mia to let Jude hold the dog's lead and when she didn't comply you yelled at her in the car? I remember that post because I was very aware at that time (still am) of the problems of sibling rivalry and asking too much of my older daughter ( I have 2 girls).
It sounds to me like your kids need more of your presence, energy and ideas in their daily activities. Very often my loving attention and participation in an activity will diffuse conflict before the kids come to blows. If for example they both want the same toy, I can ask the child who has the toy if her sister can have a turn when she's finished with it. 9 times out of 10 the toy is willingly handed over within a very reasonable period of time. If the toy is a particular favourite, I try to find another toy or activity for the other child. I do not expect my older daughter to simply acquiesce to her sister's demands. No way. That would be totally unfair and a sure-fire way to breed resentment.
Claire
Did you post some time ago about a traumatic visit to the vet in which you asked Mia to let Jude hold the dog's lead and when she didn't comply you yelled at her in the car? I remember that post because I was very aware at that time (still am) of the problems of sibling rivalry and asking too much of my older daughter ( I have 2 girls).
It sounds to me like your kids need more of your presence, energy and ideas in their daily activities. Very often my loving attention and participation in an activity will diffuse conflict before the kids come to blows. If for example they both want the same toy, I can ask the child who has the toy if her sister can have a turn when she's finished with it. 9 times out of 10 the toy is willingly handed over within a very reasonable period of time. If the toy is a particular favourite, I try to find another toy or activity for the other child. I do not expect my older daughter to simply acquiesce to her sister's demands. No way. That would be totally unfair and a sure-fire way to breed resentment.
Claire
--- In [email protected], John and Amanda Slater <fourslaterz@...> wrote:
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> From: Su Penn <su@...>
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>
> I don't know if it applies to your kids, really, but I found the book The Explosive Child very helpful--possibly the most useful tool I found--for creating a more harmonious home with Eric. It talks about techniques for problem-solving before the crisis hits, though it's certainly not the only resource for that.\
>
> ***
> The Highly Sensitive Child by Elaine Aron can be useful too. It really helped me find all the little things that were bothering Eli. When we were able to resolve some of the little things, some of the big things went away on their own.
>
> My boys have told me they don't fight when they are happy. Since then I have focused more on little things to make them happy (favorite movie, song, cookie, book, outing, or just time with a parent) and less on the actual arguing.
>
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> Amanda
> Eli 8, Samuel 7
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> Su
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> mom of Eric, 8; Carl, almost 6; and Yehva, 2.5
> (I can't believe your little elf baby is 2.5!)
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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