Who said this?
Jenny C
"When pressed, I define unschooling as allowing children as much freedom
to learn in the world as their parents can comfortably bear."
It's in Teach Your Own, a book I don't have, written originally by John
Holt, then revised by Pat Farenga. I'd always attributed this saying to
Pat Farenga.
Anyone want to check for me, or does anyone just happen to know?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to learn in the world as their parents can comfortably bear."
It's in Teach Your Own, a book I don't have, written originally by John
Holt, then revised by Pat Farenga. I'd always attributed this saying to
Pat Farenga.
Anyone want to check for me, or does anyone just happen to know?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jason & Stephanie
"When pressed, I define unschooling as allowing children as much freedom
to learn in the world as their parents can comfortably bear."
It's in Teach Your Own, a book I don't have, written originally by John
Holt, then revised by Pat Farenga. I'd always attributed this saying to
Pat Farenga.
Anyone want to check for me, or does anyone just happen to know?
Farenga said it and I disagree with that statement.
http://www.holtgws.com/whatisunschoolin.html
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to learn in the world as their parents can comfortably bear."
It's in Teach Your Own, a book I don't have, written originally by John
Holt, then revised by Pat Farenga. I'd always attributed this saying to
Pat Farenga.
Anyone want to check for me, or does anyone just happen to know?
Farenga said it and I disagree with that statement.
http://www.holtgws.com/whatisunschoolin.html
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
evawitsel
You can find this quote here: http://www.holtgws.com/whatisunschoolin.html
This website says it's from Teach your own and Pat Farenga wrote it, just like you thought.
Eva, Berend (5) & Fiene (3)
in the Netherlands
This website says it's from Teach your own and Pat Farenga wrote it, just like you thought.
Eva, Berend (5) & Fiene (3)
in the Netherlands
> "When pressed, I define unschooling as allowing children as much freedom
> to learn in the world as their parents can comfortably bear."
> It's in Teach Your Own, a book I don't have, written originally by John
> Holt, then revised by Pat Farenga. I'd always attributed this saying to
> Pat Farenga.
> Anyone want to check for me, or does anyone just happen to know?
Joanna
Yeah--unless there's the implicit assumption that parents are actively questioning and critically thinking about their "comfort zones." But the statement alone could justify lots of parents in controlling their kids, and lot of people who aren't even close to unschooling in saying that they are.
Joanna
Joanna
--- In [email protected], "Jason & Stephanie" <jay_steph93@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> "When pressed, I define unschooling as allowing children as much freedom
> to learn in the world as their parents can comfortably bear."
> It's in Teach Your Own, a book I don't have, written originally by John
> Holt, then revised by Pat Farenga. I'd always attributed this saying to
> Pat Farenga.
> Anyone want to check for me, or does anyone just happen to know?
>
> Farenga said it and I disagree with that statement.
>
> http://www.holtgws.com/whatisunschoolin.html
>
> Stephanie
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-"When pressed, I define unschooling as allowing children as much
freedom
to learn in the world as their parents can comfortably bear."
It's in Teach Your Own, a book I don't have, written originally by John
Holt, then revised by Pat Farenga. I'd always attributed this saying to
Pat Farenga.
Anyone want to check for me, or does anyone just happen to know?-=-
In the old edition, I didn't find anything like that, so I'm guessing
it must be in the newer one. I hope someone has it and can find it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
freedom
to learn in the world as their parents can comfortably bear."
It's in Teach Your Own, a book I don't have, written originally by John
Holt, then revised by Pat Farenga. I'd always attributed this saying to
Pat Farenga.
Anyone want to check for me, or does anyone just happen to know?-=-
In the old edition, I didn't find anything like that, so I'm guessing
it must be in the newer one. I hope someone has it and can find it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Halldorson
I've seen that on a few unschooling websites, specifically a "libertarian unschooling" page.
I'll see if I can find it again.
Peace,
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'll see if I can find it again.
Peace,
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***Farenga said it and I disagree with that statement.***
http://www.holtgws com/whatisunscho olin.html
Yes, well I did see that website, but I wasn't sure if he was quoting from the book of John Holt or if it was his own synopsis in the newer addition in which he co-authors.
Someone checked the books for me, and it is indeed Pat Farenga!
And... I agree with your disagreement! I think that mentality would and probably has kept people from fully embracing unschooling. Like unschooling everything but "math" since the parents aren't comfortable with letting a child learn math naturally.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.holtgws com/whatisunscho olin.html
Yes, well I did see that website, but I wasn't sure if he was quoting from the book of John Holt or if it was his own synopsis in the newer addition in which he co-authors.
Someone checked the books for me, and it is indeed Pat Farenga!
And... I agree with your disagreement! I think that mentality would and probably has kept people from fully embracing unschooling. Like unschooling everything but "math" since the parents aren't comfortable with letting a child learn math naturally.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stephanie
-I've seen that on a few unschooling websites, specifically a "libertarian unschooling" page.-
Is there a libertarian unschooling group?
Steph
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect
Is there a libertarian unschooling group?
Steph
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect
Robyn Coburn
I don't like it much because it is way too vague. It makes no reference to
not doing school. Even without the idea that parental comfort is the
priority (which I don't think is a helpful step towards unschooling), his
definition leaves open the idea that unschooling can happen after school and
on weekends while the children are "out in the world" doing their
extra-curricular learning (and sports).
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
not doing school. Even without the idea that parental comfort is the
priority (which I don't think is a helpful step towards unschooling), his
definition leaves open the idea that unschooling can happen after school and
on weekends while the children are "out in the world" doing their
extra-curricular learning (and sports).
>--
> [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbG41czdkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ0MTAyNTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjY2MzYxODQ0>
> Switch to: Text-Only<[email protected]?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>,
> Daily Digest<[email protected]?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>�
> Unsubscribe<[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>� Terms
> of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> .
>
>
>
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DJ250
And I would add to your statement, Jenny, that it's also (or simply) that parents aren't sure learning math would happen AT ALL without their intervention!
~Melissa, in MD :)
~Melissa, in MD :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jenny Cyphers
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Who said this?
***Farenga said it and I disagree with that statement.***
http://www.holtgws com/whatisunscho olin.html
Yes, well I did see that website, but I wasn't sure if he was quoting from the book of John Holt or if it was his own synopsis in the newer addition in which he co-authors.
Someone checked the books for me, and it is indeed Pat Farenga!
And... I agree with your disagreement! I think that mentality would and probably has kept people from fully embracing unschooling. Like unschooling everything but "math" since the parents aren't comfortable with letting a child learn math naturally.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Is there a libertarian unschooling group?-=-
There's a facebook group called unschooling (with a picture of the
side of a yellow schoolbus) that seems to be more political than
unschooling.
Why would you need a libertarian unschooling group? Seriously. There's
not a libertarian way to unschool and any other way. And that list on
facebook seems not to have been organized (at all, but if it were...)
by experienced unschoolers (at all).
Sandra
There's a facebook group called unschooling (with a picture of the
side of a yellow schoolbus) that seems to be more political than
unschooling.
Why would you need a libertarian unschooling group? Seriously. There's
not a libertarian way to unschool and any other way. And that list on
facebook seems not to have been organized (at all, but if it were...)
by experienced unschoolers (at all).
Sandra
Deb Lewis
***I wasn't sure if he was quoting from the book of John Holt or if it was his own synopsis in the newer addition in which he co-authors.***
Yes, Pat Farenga wrote that. It's in the Pat Farenga revamp of Teach Your Own in chapter 12 "How To Get Started" under "Approaches to Homeschooling." It's on page 238 near the bottom where it says "Unschooling".
In the *real* Holt book, chapter twelve is titled "Children And Work" (chapter ten in the Farenga rip off) Here's a bit:
~~~"...In those days I was often asked to speak to high school assemblies, mostly in rich suburbs of big cities. What I almost always talked about was the difference between jobs, careers, and work. A job, I said, was something that you did for money, something someone else told you to do and paid you for doing, something you would probably not have done otherwise, but did only to get the money. A career was a kind of ladder of jobs. If you did your first job for a while, made no mistakes and caused no trouble, whoever gave you that job might give you a new job, better paid, maybe slightly more interesting, or at least not so hard- dirty- dangerous. Then if you did that job okay for a while, your boss might then give you a slightly better job, and so on. This adds up to what is called "a career."
By "work" I meant and still mean something very different, what people used to call a "vocation" or "calling" - something which seemed so worth doing for its own sake that they would gladly choose to do it even if they didn't need money and the work didn't pay. I went on to say that to find our work, in this sense, is one of the most important and difficult tasks that we have in life, and indeed, that even if we find it once we may later have to look for it again, since work that is right for us at one stage of our life may not be right for us at the next. I added that the vital question, "What do I really want to do? What do I think is most worth doing?" is not one that the schools (or any other adults) will often urge us or help us to ask; on the whole, they feel it is their business only to prepare us for employment- jobs or careers, high or low. So we will have to find out for ourselves what work needs to be done and is being done out there in the world, and where and how we will take part in it.
As I said these things, I looked at the faces of my hearers, to sense how they felt about what I was saying. What I saw, and usually heard in the question periods that followed, made me feel that most of these students were thinking, "This guy must have just come from Mars.: Work worth doing? Work that you would do even if you didn't need money, that you would do for nothing? For most of them it was not just impossible, it was unimaginable. They did not know, hardly even knew of, any people who felt that way about their work. Work was something you did for external rewards - a little pay, if you were like most people, or wealth, power, fame if you were among the fortunate.
Among all the young people I talked to, there was never , anywhere, a hopeful, positive, enthusiastic response to what I said. I cannot remember even one among all those students, the most favored young people of the (then, at least) most favored nation in the world, who said or later wrote to me, "Mr. Holt, here's what I am interested in and care about, how can I find a way to work at it?" ~~~
If anyone is interested in Teach Your Own buy the old one. It may have some outdated chapters on legal matters but those are still interesting. Pat Farenga has nothing of value to add to this wonderful book and I wish he'd left it alone.
Deb Lewis, who's glad Sandra and Pam and Joyce found work worth doing. <g>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes, Pat Farenga wrote that. It's in the Pat Farenga revamp of Teach Your Own in chapter 12 "How To Get Started" under "Approaches to Homeschooling." It's on page 238 near the bottom where it says "Unschooling".
In the *real* Holt book, chapter twelve is titled "Children And Work" (chapter ten in the Farenga rip off) Here's a bit:
~~~"...In those days I was often asked to speak to high school assemblies, mostly in rich suburbs of big cities. What I almost always talked about was the difference between jobs, careers, and work. A job, I said, was something that you did for money, something someone else told you to do and paid you for doing, something you would probably not have done otherwise, but did only to get the money. A career was a kind of ladder of jobs. If you did your first job for a while, made no mistakes and caused no trouble, whoever gave you that job might give you a new job, better paid, maybe slightly more interesting, or at least not so hard- dirty- dangerous. Then if you did that job okay for a while, your boss might then give you a slightly better job, and so on. This adds up to what is called "a career."
By "work" I meant and still mean something very different, what people used to call a "vocation" or "calling" - something which seemed so worth doing for its own sake that they would gladly choose to do it even if they didn't need money and the work didn't pay. I went on to say that to find our work, in this sense, is one of the most important and difficult tasks that we have in life, and indeed, that even if we find it once we may later have to look for it again, since work that is right for us at one stage of our life may not be right for us at the next. I added that the vital question, "What do I really want to do? What do I think is most worth doing?" is not one that the schools (or any other adults) will often urge us or help us to ask; on the whole, they feel it is their business only to prepare us for employment- jobs or careers, high or low. So we will have to find out for ourselves what work needs to be done and is being done out there in the world, and where and how we will take part in it.
As I said these things, I looked at the faces of my hearers, to sense how they felt about what I was saying. What I saw, and usually heard in the question periods that followed, made me feel that most of these students were thinking, "This guy must have just come from Mars.: Work worth doing? Work that you would do even if you didn't need money, that you would do for nothing? For most of them it was not just impossible, it was unimaginable. They did not know, hardly even knew of, any people who felt that way about their work. Work was something you did for external rewards - a little pay, if you were like most people, or wealth, power, fame if you were among the fortunate.
Among all the young people I talked to, there was never , anywhere, a hopeful, positive, enthusiastic response to what I said. I cannot remember even one among all those students, the most favored young people of the (then, at least) most favored nation in the world, who said or later wrote to me, "Mr. Holt, here's what I am interested in and care about, how can I find a way to work at it?" ~~~
If anyone is interested in Teach Your Own buy the old one. It may have some outdated chapters on legal matters but those are still interesting. Pat Farenga has nothing of value to add to this wonderful book and I wish he'd left it alone.
Deb Lewis, who's glad Sandra and Pam and Joyce found work worth doing. <g>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Halldorson
Sandra wrote:
There's a facebook group called unschooling (with a picture of the
side of a yellow schoolbus) that seems to be more political than
unschooling.
Why would you need a libertarian unschooling group? Seriously. There's
not a libertarian way to unschool and any other way. And that list on
facebook seems not to have been organized (at all, but if it were...)
by experienced unschoolers (at all).
I don't know if there would be a need. I'm not sure. I would like to talk with more libertarian unschoolers.
Yeah, I think I am a member of that facebook group and didn't/don't find it all that useful. I don't know who's group it is.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There's a facebook group called unschooling (with a picture of the
side of a yellow schoolbus) that seems to be more political than
unschooling.
Why would you need a libertarian unschooling group? Seriously. There's
not a libertarian way to unschool and any other way. And that list on
facebook seems not to have been organized (at all, but if it were...)
by experienced unschoolers (at all).
I don't know if there would be a need. I'm not sure. I would like to talk with more libertarian unschoolers.
Yeah, I think I am a member of that facebook group and didn't/don't find it all that useful. I don't know who's group it is.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
"Co-authored"?
Egregious coat tail riding....
I'm with Deb. Buy the last edition of any Holt book that was completed prior
to Holt's death. His own additional commentary is what is priceless.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
[image: Yahoo!
Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNWprbm10BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ0MTAyNTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjY2MzcwMDI5>
Robyn L. Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Egregious coat tail riding....
I'm with Deb. Buy the last edition of any Holt book that was completed prior
to Holt's death. His own additional commentary is what is priceless.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
[image: Yahoo!
Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNWprbm10BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ0MTAyNTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1NTQyMTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjY2MzcwMDI5>
> Switch to: Text-Only<[email protected]?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>,--
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> Unsubscribe<[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>� Terms
> of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> .
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Robyn L. Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jason & Stephanie
If anyone is interested in Teach Your Own buy the old one. It may have some outdated chapters on legal matters but those are still interesting. Pat Farenga has nothing of value to add to this wonderful book and I wish he'd left it alone.
*****I agree, I recently bought it not knowing the hatchet job he did. I haven't read it, I tried but it frustrates me.
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
*****I agree, I recently bought it not knowing the hatchet job he did. I haven't read it, I tried but it frustrates me.
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leah
Does anyone know the last date of publication for a Farenga-free Teach Your Own?
--- In [email protected], "Jason & Stephanie" <jay_steph93@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> If anyone is interested in Teach Your Own buy the old one. It may have some outdated chapters on legal matters but those are still interesting. Pat Farenga has nothing of value to add to this wonderful book and I wish he'd left it alone.
>
> *****I agree, I recently bought it not knowing the hatchet job he did. I haven't read it, I tried but it frustrates me.
> Stephanie
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sandra Dodd
Eva probably found the quote first, but I was away for the afternoon
and didn't approve the post (sorry).
If there were prizes (other than gratitude and being impressed), Eva
should get one.
Sandra
and didn't approve the post (sorry).
If there were prizes (other than gratitude and being impressed), Eva
should get one.
Sandra
k
He died in 1985, Leah. So maybe look for anything then or earlier.
On 2/16/10, Leah <leahrlittle@...> wrote:
> Does anyone know the last date of publication for a Farenga-free Teach Your
> Own?
>
> --- In [email protected], "Jason & Stephanie" <jay_steph93@...>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> If anyone is interested in Teach Your Own buy the old one. It may have
>> some outdated chapters on legal matters but those are still interesting.
>> Pat Farenga has nothing of value to add to this wonderful book and I wish
>> he'd left it alone.
>>
>> *****I agree, I recently bought it not knowing the hatchet job he did. I
>> haven't read it, I tried but it frustrates me.
>> Stephanie
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Jenny Cyphers
***Among all the young people I talked to, there was never , anywhere, a hopeful, positive, enthusiastic response to what I said. I cannot remember even one among all those students, the most favored young people of the (then, at least) most favored nation in the world, who said or later wrote to me, "Mr. Holt, here's what I am interested in and care about, how can I find a way to work at it?" ~~~***
First off, thank you so much for that Deb!
I read this little bit and thought, if some guy had shown up at my high school and said that stuff about working for something that your passionate about, I would've sat right up and listened. It would've been one of those things that would've stuck with me forever. However I never would've written him, and I most likely would've been thrilled to have the assembly over and get off the hard bleachers, and back into my art class or get home. Unless of course it was an assembly that the school felt we, the students, could be trusted to sit in the auditorium/theater in the nice seats in the semi dark, THEN it would've been a super great school assembly.
All in all, I'm really glad that my kids have never had to sit through a school assembly for ANY reason, even to hear an inspiring person such as John Holt.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
First off, thank you so much for that Deb!
I read this little bit and thought, if some guy had shown up at my high school and said that stuff about working for something that your passionate about, I would've sat right up and listened. It would've been one of those things that would've stuck with me forever. However I never would've written him, and I most likely would've been thrilled to have the assembly over and get off the hard bleachers, and back into my art class or get home. Unless of course it was an assembly that the school felt we, the students, could be trusted to sit in the auditorium/theater in the nice seats in the semi dark, THEN it would've been a super great school assembly.
All in all, I'm really glad that my kids have never had to sit through a school assembly for ANY reason, even to hear an inspiring person such as John Holt.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I read this little bit and thought, if some guy had shown up at my
high school and said that stuff about working for something that your
passionate about, I would've sat right up and listened. It would've
been one of those things that would've stuck with me forever. -=-
I had read that same part of the book yesterday and was really happy
to see it quoted here. I was looking for any section *like* defining
unschooling, when I was in the orthodontics waiting room, waiting for
Holly.
I had those ideas in my head, about passion and service and vocation,
when I was a kid. There was talk and light pressure about me going
into science (they didn't know my math glitch then; I don't visualize
or remember numbers well), but for myself I wanted to be a teacher, or
a missionary, or write for a magazine.
Looking back at that, it's amusing. The teacher intentions started
when I was six, and never waned, and that is "what I did" (college and
job) at first. The missionary intention was added when I was 10, and
stayed until I was fifteen or so. The magazine writing idea came when
I was thirteen, and my image was Life Magazine--inspiring and
historically significant stuff.
Looky me!
Oh, and one of my hobbies was to collect words and histories, not on
paper necessarily, though I've done a little of that, but to turn
words over and look under them. So looking back, it's amusing that
what I'm doing as "my work" these days is a swirl of things involving
teaching/learning, missionary work, and writing for people who read it
and think about it, and talk about it.
And as to "looky," I grew up with people saying "Looky here!" And
recently it untangled itself. It's a vestige of "look ye here." It
IS "look ye here," in an non-literate passing-down, where people kept
the phrase, but lost the spelling and the analysis of it. They
weren't "illiterate." They were reading, but they were also
maintaining everyday phrases that weren't written out, and weren't
learned from reading. And little kids would say "looky me!"
I think it's cool that ideas can percolate and reveal themselves years
later, without conscious thought, if there's just enough thought, and
enough ideas.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
high school and said that stuff about working for something that your
passionate about, I would've sat right up and listened. It would've
been one of those things that would've stuck with me forever. -=-
I had read that same part of the book yesterday and was really happy
to see it quoted here. I was looking for any section *like* defining
unschooling, when I was in the orthodontics waiting room, waiting for
Holly.
I had those ideas in my head, about passion and service and vocation,
when I was a kid. There was talk and light pressure about me going
into science (they didn't know my math glitch then; I don't visualize
or remember numbers well), but for myself I wanted to be a teacher, or
a missionary, or write for a magazine.
Looking back at that, it's amusing. The teacher intentions started
when I was six, and never waned, and that is "what I did" (college and
job) at first. The missionary intention was added when I was 10, and
stayed until I was fifteen or so. The magazine writing idea came when
I was thirteen, and my image was Life Magazine--inspiring and
historically significant stuff.
Looky me!
Oh, and one of my hobbies was to collect words and histories, not on
paper necessarily, though I've done a little of that, but to turn
words over and look under them. So looking back, it's amusing that
what I'm doing as "my work" these days is a swirl of things involving
teaching/learning, missionary work, and writing for people who read it
and think about it, and talk about it.
And as to "looky," I grew up with people saying "Looky here!" And
recently it untangled itself. It's a vestige of "look ye here." It
IS "look ye here," in an non-literate passing-down, where people kept
the phrase, but lost the spelling and the analysis of it. They
weren't "illiterate." They were reading, but they were also
maintaining everyday phrases that weren't written out, and weren't
learned from reading. And little kids would say "looky me!"
I think it's cool that ideas can percolate and reveal themselves years
later, without conscious thought, if there's just enough thought, and
enough ideas.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
riasplace3
I came across it today in GWS # 106, in an article written by Pat Farenga, with more details:
"When pressed for a definition of unschooling I now reply, 'Allowing children as much freedom to explore the world as you can comfortably bear as their parent.' ... More to the point, though, unschooling is an educational approach, an attitude towards learning. It refers to the ways in which we use books, materials, and experiences to learn and grow. The type of underlying structire you have inside yourself, your goals, value system, discipline, whether you watch TV or call parents by their first names, whether you use a patriarchal, democratic, or any other type of family structure, are not unschooling issues; they are parenting issues. Whether unschoolers or not, every parent must deal with these issues."
It's in an article written in response to one by Mary Hood titled 'Can a Christian be an Unschooler'?
Ria
"When pressed for a definition of unschooling I now reply, 'Allowing children as much freedom to explore the world as you can comfortably bear as their parent.' ... More to the point, though, unschooling is an educational approach, an attitude towards learning. It refers to the ways in which we use books, materials, and experiences to learn and grow. The type of underlying structire you have inside yourself, your goals, value system, discipline, whether you watch TV or call parents by their first names, whether you use a patriarchal, democratic, or any other type of family structure, are not unschooling issues; they are parenting issues. Whether unschoolers or not, every parent must deal with these issues."
It's in an article written in response to one by Mary Hood titled 'Can a Christian be an Unschooler'?
Ria
--- In [email protected], "Jason & Stephanie" <jay_steph93@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> "When pressed, I define unschooling as allowing children as much freedom
> to learn in the world as their parents can comfortably bear."
> It's in Teach Your Own, a book I don't have, written originally by John
> Holt, then revised by Pat Farenga. I'd always attributed this saying to
> Pat Farenga.
> Anyone want to check for me, or does anyone just happen to know?
>
> Farenga said it and I disagree with that statement.
>
> http://www.holtgws.com/whatisunschoolin.html
Sandra Dodd
Thanks, Ria, for finding that. I like it better in context.
What was the date of that issue (GWS #106)? Thanks...
Sandra
What was the date of that issue (GWS #106)? Thanks...
Sandra
Robyn Coburn
I don't think I like that in this statement he separates parenting from
"educational" issues. It sounds like, or perhaps could be taken as if, he is
saying that these parenting issues listed can or should be addressed
separately to how the family address their children's education, that
unschooling ideas need not apply.
I think many of us on record have found that for unschooling to blossom, the
opposite is true.
Plus, even if it is better in context, by his own statement the short answer
is the one that he is usually or commonly giving. The short soundbite is
certainly what is being quoted around the place, and that provides plenty of
fodder for the naysayers, critics and half-assers.
I guess I'm determined to continue to dislike that definition in any
context.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
OnSat, Feb 20, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
"educational" issues. It sounds like, or perhaps could be taken as if, he is
saying that these parenting issues listed can or should be addressed
separately to how the family address their children's education, that
unschooling ideas need not apply.
I think many of us on record have found that for unschooling to blossom, the
opposite is true.
Plus, even if it is better in context, by his own statement the short answer
is the one that he is usually or commonly giving. The short soundbite is
certainly what is being quoted around the place, and that provides plenty of
fodder for the naysayers, critics and half-assers.
I guess I'm determined to continue to dislike that definition in any
context.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
OnSat, Feb 20, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Thanks, Ria, for finding that. I like it better in context.
>
> What was the date of that issue (GWS #106)? Thanks...
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
riasplace3
Aug/Sept. 1995
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Ria, for finding that. I like it better in context.
>
> What was the date of that issue (GWS #106)? Thanks...
>
> Sandra
>
Deb Lewis
***I think many of us on record have found that for unschooling to blossom, the opposite is true.***
Unschooling is a parenting issue. Kids can't exempt themselves from compulsory schooling. Most kids don't even know it's possible to be exempted. If a kid, without his parents help, left school with the intention of doing what he wanted to do he would be truant or a drop out.
There are still probably people unschooling for "academics" but those people aren't understanding natural learning if they believe a kid might learn to read without lessons but can't learn to sleep without bedtimes.
Pat wrote, in Aug. 1995
"When pressed for a definition of unschooling I now reply, *Allowing children as much freedom to explore the world as you can comfortably bear as their parent.* ... More to the point, though, unschooling is an educational approach, an attitude towards learning. It refers to the ways in which we use books,. materials, and experiences to learn and grow. The type of underlying structure you have inside yourself, your goals, value system, discipline, whether you watch TV or call parents by their first names, whether you use a patriarchal, democratic, or any other type of family structure, are not unschooling issues; they are parenting issues. Whether unschoolers or not, every parent must deal with these issues."
And then in 2003, in "Teach Your Own" he writes: Unschooling,. This is also known as interest-driven, child-led, natural, organic, eclectic, or self -directed learning. Lately, the term "unschooling" has come to be associated with the type of homeschooling that doesn't use a fixed curriculum. When pressed, I define unschooling as allowing children as much freedom to learn in the world as their parents can comfortably bear."
And he adds in the next paragraph, "Try not to let purists of either persuasion get to you. (referring to "school at homers" and "unschoolers") You must do what you are comfortable with; like your children, you too, will learn and change as you get more experience with homeschooling You can start out with a package of textbook and "teacher-proof curricula" (actually that's how some curriculum manufacturers refer to their materials) and if that isn't working you can switch to a unit study or an unschooling approach."
So, between 1995 and 2003 a child of parents taking Pat's advice would have gotten eight years older without his parents learning anything beyond what they could comfortably bear. He's not sharing information about natural learning, he's coddling parents to do what feels good to them. He's not encouraging parents to think about and understand natural learning. And, in spite of what he wrote in GWS 1995, his own words reveal he very much sees unschooling as a parenting issue. It's all about the parents and what *they* can "comfortably bear."
He's a homeschooling advocate, not an unschooling advocate.
Unschooled kids learn because humans learn. Humans learned before anyone was thinking about "education" or "educational approaches." It's better for all kids to have thinking parents and especially important for kids whose parents keep them out of school. When parents think about natural learning and understand it, they understand unschooling is much more than homeschooling without a curriculum.
Unschooling is more than an "educational approach" and does very much have to do with the type of "underlying structure" parents have within themselves; (whatever that's supposed to mean) It *does* have to do with a parents goals and value system and the family structure. If an unschooling parent's underlying structure is "asshole" or "selfish pig" or "disinterested mom" - that matters to unschooling. If an unschooling parent's goal is to raise a doctor, that matters to unschooling. If an unschooling parent's value system is that parents come first and kids are an afterthought, that's going to matter to unschooling.
Pat did nothing to shine a light on unschooling. He dumped a big bucket of mud in John Holt's pretty good book. And smeared it around.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unschooling is a parenting issue. Kids can't exempt themselves from compulsory schooling. Most kids don't even know it's possible to be exempted. If a kid, without his parents help, left school with the intention of doing what he wanted to do he would be truant or a drop out.
There are still probably people unschooling for "academics" but those people aren't understanding natural learning if they believe a kid might learn to read without lessons but can't learn to sleep without bedtimes.
Pat wrote, in Aug. 1995
"When pressed for a definition of unschooling I now reply, *Allowing children as much freedom to explore the world as you can comfortably bear as their parent.* ... More to the point, though, unschooling is an educational approach, an attitude towards learning. It refers to the ways in which we use books,. materials, and experiences to learn and grow. The type of underlying structure you have inside yourself, your goals, value system, discipline, whether you watch TV or call parents by their first names, whether you use a patriarchal, democratic, or any other type of family structure, are not unschooling issues; they are parenting issues. Whether unschoolers or not, every parent must deal with these issues."
And then in 2003, in "Teach Your Own" he writes: Unschooling,. This is also known as interest-driven, child-led, natural, organic, eclectic, or self -directed learning. Lately, the term "unschooling" has come to be associated with the type of homeschooling that doesn't use a fixed curriculum. When pressed, I define unschooling as allowing children as much freedom to learn in the world as their parents can comfortably bear."
And he adds in the next paragraph, "Try not to let purists of either persuasion get to you. (referring to "school at homers" and "unschoolers") You must do what you are comfortable with; like your children, you too, will learn and change as you get more experience with homeschooling You can start out with a package of textbook and "teacher-proof curricula" (actually that's how some curriculum manufacturers refer to their materials) and if that isn't working you can switch to a unit study or an unschooling approach."
So, between 1995 and 2003 a child of parents taking Pat's advice would have gotten eight years older without his parents learning anything beyond what they could comfortably bear. He's not sharing information about natural learning, he's coddling parents to do what feels good to them. He's not encouraging parents to think about and understand natural learning. And, in spite of what he wrote in GWS 1995, his own words reveal he very much sees unschooling as a parenting issue. It's all about the parents and what *they* can "comfortably bear."
He's a homeschooling advocate, not an unschooling advocate.
Unschooled kids learn because humans learn. Humans learned before anyone was thinking about "education" or "educational approaches." It's better for all kids to have thinking parents and especially important for kids whose parents keep them out of school. When parents think about natural learning and understand it, they understand unschooling is much more than homeschooling without a curriculum.
Unschooling is more than an "educational approach" and does very much have to do with the type of "underlying structure" parents have within themselves; (whatever that's supposed to mean) It *does* have to do with a parents goals and value system and the family structure. If an unschooling parent's underlying structure is "asshole" or "selfish pig" or "disinterested mom" - that matters to unschooling. If an unschooling parent's goal is to raise a doctor, that matters to unschooling. If an unschooling parent's value system is that parents come first and kids are an afterthought, that's going to matter to unschooling.
Pat did nothing to shine a light on unschooling. He dumped a big bucket of mud in John Holt's pretty good book. And smeared it around.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]